Just Because You’re a Celebrity, That Doesn’t Mean You Need to Start a Podcast

By Kayleigh Donaldson | Celebrity | October 14, 2023 |

By Kayleigh Donaldson | Celebrity | October 14, 2023 |

Recently, actor Dax Shepard came under fire for an interview he conducted with Queer Eye star Jonathan Van Ness on his inexplicably popular podcast Armchair Expert. Van Ness, who was ostensibly there to promote their own podcast, was harassed with a series of bad-faith ‘just asking questions’ style demands that they defend the position that trans people deserve basic human rights. It was an excruciating listen, with Van Ness driven to tears as they candidly and succinctly explained the dangers of the anti-trans propaganda Shepard was spewing. The podcast caused a lot of controversy, with even many of its fans feeling sickened by what had happened. It demonstrated many things about the current fervour of queerphobia that is dominating politics, the media, and the internet. It also, if I may be somewhat glib, proved a hypothesis of my own: we need fewer dumbf*ck celebrities hosting podcasts.

A podcast is just another low-effort, high gains side hustle for a celebrity from A-List to Z. It’s easier than starting a newsletter, less costly than investing in a skincare or alcohol brand, and will neatly fit into a pre-established market with proven PR and financial benefits. Just invest in some good audio equipment and an editor, then get the word out to sympathetic outlets and fellow celeb podcasters. At the very least, you’re probably guaranteed a solid season’s worth of content and attention before the bubble bursts. If it doesn’t then maybe you’re the next Smartless, which gave a new burst of acclaim to Sean Hayes, Jason Bateman, and Will Arnett. After all, it doesn’t seem that hard to get to the level of those guys.

Celebrity podcasts can fit into a few categories. There are the ones, like Armchair Expert and Smartless, where celebrities interview fellow industry figures or those of note in their respective fields. Others do episodic recaps of popular TV shows they starred in, such as The Office or Scrubs. Then there are those that fit into the ‘simply shooting the sh*t’ brand, where the celebrity chats casually about their life and centre themselves as the undeniable focus of the listener’s attention. There’s also a difference, in my mind, between those who got famous via podcasts even if they were working in another field (see the hosts of How Did This Get Made?) and those who are established figures deciding to get into the podcasting game.

I feel about many of these podcasts the way I do about publications that decide to have celebrities interview other celebrities rather than hire a journalist who actually knows what they’re doing. It’s an ego massage more than an investment in skill and it denigrates the real talent and research required to be a good interviewer and communicator. You can hear what happens when those abilities are lacking in many of these podcasts. It’s inexplicable to me that both Smartless and Armchair Expert have gotten as popular as they have because all of those guys suck at interviews (especially Bateman.) They’re arrogant, ill-prepared, more concerned with talking about themselves than relinquishing attention to the guest, and their banter sucks. If this is their attempt to broaden their personal brands in a more appealing way, it’s failing miserably. This is another problem with Shepard, whose ‘baby’s first Joe Rogan’ approach exposes his desire to be an approachable intellectual as sad and inane. They’re all trying to be Conan O’Brien but they clearly think they’re too famous to bother. It doesn’t make for a satisfying listening experience, regardless of how fascinating or charismatic the guest is.

And these fools get incredible guests, which makes the inescapable glut of the celebrity podcast all the more aggravating. Then again, I imagine that’s the allure for a huge celebrity who is hesitant to reveal too much about themselves for their latest press tour. Their famous friends won’t push too hard on anything of actual substance. Which is good for them, I suppose, but why would we want to listen to it? There are exceptions, of course. Conan is excellent at this form, mostly because he spent decades perfecting it and has a real curiosity he’s able to convey through smart questioning and an easy flow. Singer Jessie Ware’s Table Manners, which she hosts with her mother, is warm and inviting and stripped free of ego. Yet their strengths only further expose the weaknesses of the competition, which has grown increasingly crowded and more evidently lazy in execution.

A lot of celebrities and their teams are keen to invest in or do stuff that, altogether, doesn’t require a massive amount of personal labour. There’s something about a podcast that seems easy to them, akin to releasing a book that was ghostwritten by someone else or putting money into a company so you can buy a co-founder title. Maximum visibility, minimum effort. It’s a mindset that sees no joy in the process or pride in the work. As someone who used to do a podcast, I can tell you that, without the financial safety net of being famous, it’s tough and time-intensive but immensely rewarding when you put your mind to it. Alas, it’s also extremely tough to maintain basic costs if you don’t have sponsors. This is the newsletter problem too (and sadly the reason I don’t write one anymore): if you’re unpopular then it’s cheap enough; if you’re mildly popular then it’s costly to run and not big enough to get investment; if you’re huge then you’re probably losing money unless your sponsorships are huge or you’re picked up by a platform willing to foot the bill. That leaves a lot of talented people who want to do the work left on the sidelines. Many a great podcast has been felled by this. So hearing the latest wannabe Marc Maron whine through two hours of audio about their day with major backing from someone like Spotify can’t help but feel pointed.

I’m not sure there’s such a thing as a truly democratic medium. It takes little time for money and clout to dominate the scene, and as podcasting has become a multi-million dollar business, companies are less inclined to take a risk on unknown talent when it’s a safer bet to get Kate and Oliver Hudson to prattle on about their famous lives. It’d be easy to say that there are too many podcasts around, but I’m not sure one can have too much art or culture. Quantity over quality is an age-old problem, after all. Every listener has had to wade through a sea of shit to find the stuff they want to subscribe to. It’s just harder to do so when the landscape is so thoroughly dominated by the same formats by famous people who don’t always seem like they want to be doing this. It sucks to hear people with all the resources in the world not even bother to do better. If you want to make money interviewing others, perhaps do the research, Dax?