Pajiba

I sent OMO a scathing message via their "Contact Us" page yesterday. I did the same for the Protect Marriage group this morning. Who knows if it will make even the slightest difference, but it makes me feel good.

Can someone talk me down, please (isn't that what Rachel Maddow calls/called it?)? I like what Ellen said and I like the way she said. It seemed to me that she was speaking logically and not resorting to catch phrases and whatnot. She seemed to be coming from a place of understanding and compassion and other good things. Is this how bigots feel when they hear their advocates speak? Do they feel like what their advocates say is logical and not appealing to reptilian instinct? Or do they deep down know that it is hateful bullshit, but they just want what they want?

'Cause videos like this make me feel good, but it also makes me wonder if it is the same feeling people who are anti-civil rights feel when they see their views projected. If it is, it's gonna be a long ride.

Pissant, that is an excellent question. You've got to wonder, when it comes to people protesting gay marriage and reproductive rights, and they're screaming about how LGBT's aren't entitled to the same rights as the rest of us... are they getting the warm and fuzzies? Does it make them actually happy?

Because I had the warm and fuzzies all day yesterday, between this and the Handel resignation and all the other Prop 8 stuff I read. Is it the same when you're marginalizing your fellow humans? When you're knowingly making people unhappy? And yes, I know I'm loading this question with my own emphasis and word choices, but the question is nonetheless a valid one.

Like I said, an excellent question.

I'm always amused that groups like these "Million" moms assume everyone shares their views. These idiots really think most straight people are homophobes, just as Republicans think all white people are racist (or else we're wracked with "white guilt"). They just don't get that people -MOST PEOPLE- are much more open, loving, and nonjudgmental than they are.

pissant: I think the difference lies in the viewpoint of "I know I'm right" vs "I know that's right".

For fear of whipping out the blanket statment that will likely smother me, right-wing/conservatives/Republicans/whatever-you-want to-call-them appropirate opinions; liberals/democrats/hippies/whatever-you-want-to-call-them seem to be able to rally for x or y issue, even if it doesn't apply to them.

I don't know. I don't like cruelty. When you root for "Team Mean", regardless of the ideology, I can't have much to do with you.

Wednesday,

I think we were going for the same point, but you worded it much better.

But let's not just pile on the Christian right. I don't think you'd want to be gay in hardcore Islamic nations like Iran, am I correct?

Actually, you wouldn't want to be Christian in Iran (or China, or Egypt) right now either, for that matter.

Intolerance comes in all stripes.

It must take a special kind of stupid for bigotry to make any kind of logical sense. The fact that “One Million Moms” can band together in such large numbers of blind likemindedness is even more baffling. And despite it all, I have yet to hear one argument, insane, illogical, ignorant or otherwise, that could possibly explain how in anyway shape or form a stranger's sexual status (and by extension their race, creed, gender or faith) affects the lives of said band of bigots positively or negatively or even how they feel it ever could. It's a non-issue in much the same way as it would be to ostracize someone for wearing polyester over cotton, eating margarine over butter or liking the Beatles over Elvis. What makes me sad is that there are other groups out there just like this one who title themselves with something that sounds like it might be wholesome or harmless, but in reality are just as much a hate group of bullies as they would be if they had white hoods and burning crosses.

I have heard groups time and again get up on their soapbox and say how being gay is "wrong" and "immoral" and just "evil". I've even heard some of these fuckwads suggest that they themselves wouldn't have anything against it, but for God and that pesky and often misquoted holy book that says otherwise. "We don't want to hate them...but it's our duty to. Don't blame us....God made us do it. " The added bonus of throwing around the term "traditional values" as both a catchphrase and a social elitist marker is even more perverted. It's as though they know what they do is wrong but they grasp for justification regardless.

If by some movement of Hitlerian proportions one managed to eliminate all gay people, how would anyone's lives be any different? They wouldn't be. And in all likelihood the witch hunt would simply continue with a new found pariah. That's the problem with bigots; they have a very low self-worth and unless they spend their time artificially stroking their shriveled egos by tearing down someone different they cannot function. The fact that some groups of them are more subtle with their hatred is irrelevant.

I would much rather find the membership roster of this and other groups like this and expose them for the disgusting people that they are and not hide behind the facade of God or other fictitious noble cause. I'd rather they'd be honest and just say what they really are- Assholes United.

As Christian I get a little upset by the assumed equation that being religious and being hateful and bigoted are the same thing. Certainly, we are taught that there are absolute right and wrong ways to do things. We are also taught that every one of us is as flawed as the next, that none of us has the moral authority to judge another, that we must respect and abide by the law of the land, and that we should love our neighbors as we do ourselves. We're also supposed to give sacrificially, the tithe is a starting point, table stakes if you will. If the amount you give doesn't have a meaningful impact on your own condition then it's not enough. We're supposed to protect and care for the poor and weak. And we're supposed to do all this to please God. I guess my point is that the pride, cruelty, and self aggrandizing nature of many of those labeld the "Christian Right" are, in themselves, sins. One cannot behave in this manner if they put the love of God before the love of self or cause.

She's a great vegan!

catagisreading, I didn't link it earlier but I'm really glad to see that article is making the rounds.

I hope it galvanizes parents, irrespective of their kids sexuality, to keep this from happening in their school districs.

I also wouldn't mind if people who are appalled by this type of behavior get riled up enough to address it with society at large. Ellen's rebuke is a great start.

ugh. gays.

Ellen Degeneres played a major part in teaching me not to be homophobic. I was a ten year old in Mississippi and everyone at school knew being gay was bad, and I bowed to peer pressure as most kids would have. But I liked Ellen, and I liked her sitcom, and then she came out and I had to rethink the whole thing. So yay for her.

I love the amount of Ellen around here lately. Those OMM dummies sure picked a losing fight.

@spike:

Open House? Yes, I had to look it up on imdb but I totally remember watching that show.

The best way to piss off idiots like this is to be as nice as pie. The nicer you are, the more it frustrates them.

slopchop, I don't think (around here anyways) that anyone is intentionally trying to lump ALL Christians into this leaky boat of fear, prejudice, and intolerance. I'm sure we all know lots of Christians like yourself who somehow manage to follow their Christian teachings without getting hung up on archaic passages prescribing hatred towards particular groups.

We're only using the term Christian because 99% of the intolerant arseholes who put forth their bigotry as a "valid opinion" self-identify as Christian and/or belong to a Christian group of some kind. We certainly don't mean to offend or ostracize those Christians who (like you) don't have time for this

If I may speak for the rest of the folks on here, please don't take it personally. You're obviously not the type they're referring to.

@spike & elsie:

I remember that show too! She was the scathing, sarcastic receptionist, and wasn't she also portrayed as a little bit of the "crazy cat lady" type as well?

That makes some amount of sense. It's a lot easier to claim everyone agrees with you if you completely ignore anyone who doesn't.

So how many millions do they even come with? Or are they like those Westboro Church assholes? One inbred family.

Even 40,000 is too many.

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How is it okay to hate on Christians because most of anti-gay America is loud and proud Christian? I get it, Bert said it's a generalization and obviously doesn't apply to every Christian, but what about people who hate on Muslims because the majority of terrorist threats to the US come from loud and proud Muslims? Is that okay?

The majority of American Christians aren't necessarily homophobic, and even if they were, generalizing Christians as homophobes is a really good way to alienate those who aren't.

On the contrary, I'm not out there campaigning to have the rights of Christians taken away or lessened. I'm not out there actively trying to take away the ability of others to be happy. I'm not vigorously striving to force the closure of any church. In fact, I don't think there are any groups out there trying to force Christians to stop practicing their religion or to make them change to another religion.

No, in fact, it's quite the other way around isn't it? Christians in America (I make that distinction to avoid the false chicken-shit argument that Muslims are being persecuted by the same mentality) are actively trying to squash, remove, restrict and otherwise limit the rights of another group - out of nothing more than false religious zealotry fueled by lies. That's not a generalization, it's the truth. When it's an organized campaign, lead by church officials, sponsored by political trolls and upheld by rank and file churchgoers - it's not an unjust generalization, it's a truth that Christians have to deal with from inside, not bitch at me for pointing it out.

Tell me again how the Bible says gays are bad and that's a law to follow but stoning a woman for adultery is just a bit too much. Sick of the cherry picking and then expecting everyone to buy into it, or else.

@protoguy

Thank you. I too am beyond sick of the "but Muslims....." arguments.

Bierce, I see what you're saying, but disagree. You complain that "there's quite a bit of haterade guzzling hereabout" but what other appropriate response is there to an obvious injustice?

You seem to suggest that we should make a joke, and not enter the fray. While that works for Ellen (who, let’s face it, is a professional), that's not a one size fits all solution or response. As William Shenstone said, "Anger is a great force. If you control it, it can be transmuted into a power which can move the whole world."

Anger works - and we should be angry. Actively denying gay couples' rights, bullying children in the name of Jesus, and just generally make life worse for people in the LGBT community are intolerable acts. The perpetrators should not be treated with the kid gloves of compassion and charity; their systems for perpetuating their goals should be destroyed “root and branch”.* (In movie terms, this is the part where the kid who’s getting picked on plants a solid punch on the bully.)

As it’s been pointed out many times, historically we don’t allow the majority to vote on the rights of the minority. “Those people” we’re yelling about are trying to do just that; they deserve to be shouted down because otherwise in many communities they speak the loudest. Ultimately, it's not about creating a 'diminished "other" so there's something, some one thing you can be better than' , it’s about being rightfully p***ed off that so much of our national discourse has been high-jacked by such monumental insanity.

Also, shout out to Protoguy.

*13th Amendment/ Green v. School Board of New Kent County in 1968

Proto- Find things from Dr. Tim Keller. Read the books, watch the debates, download the sermons, etc. Dr. Keller is far better equipped to explain the Christian side in a theological discussion than I am. Dr. Keller has built a thriving Gospel teaching ministry in the heart of Manhattan. He is delivering a message that remains true to the Gospel, he's not cherry picking, to a group that is decidedly not fertile ground for such an endeavor.

For me, here is what I constantly have to remind myself of:
The World is fallen, as is everything in it. The difference between the best of us and the worst of us, no matter how such a thing is measured, is insignificant when compared to the difference between all of us and perfection. Every one of us, in our fallen and broken hearts, has the ability to be as cruel, evil, and merciless as the next. We need only to look through history for the proof.

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