Pajiba

Hear hear! These shows seriously make my blood boil. Let's hope this nauseating trend that's shown its ugly head disappears again, and fast.

I'm gay and you are wrong. You can't blame t.v., video games, movies, etc on people being effin pricks. No different then Fox News saying an explicit sex scene in Mass Effect that doesn't exist, is to blame for the perversion of our youth. Or when they blamed Oldboy for that guy killing people with a hammer.

Some horrible people do horrible things, and if it isn't a television show, it's a candy wrapper, or a mud puddle that sets them off to do stupid things. Though really, it all always comes down to playing with your kids, knowing what they watch, and explaining things to them so they won't grow up to be those horrible pricks.

Although I definitely agree with your post, I've been noticing a lot in the past few years my generation (I'm 30) of men sort of coming into their own and not feeling ashamed of the things they like or do that were always considered "non-manly". And I don't know if it's because I live in a liberal area on the East Coast, but I've been seeing it in a lot of different cultures and nationalities. These are guys that if they wanted to could beat you into next week, or look menacing, or look like the type that have no emotions, but now aren't afraid to shrug and say "Yeah I fucking knit. What of it?" Like the gay thing, meaning I remember when no one was coming out of the closet until college, but now my little cousins in junior high and high school have friends out and proud, I think it's just a thing that takes time to develop in each generation. I know some places in this country it will NEVER be okay for a guy to cry or push a baby in a carriage, but I like that in my circle of people and my place of work, it's become commonplace and a nice surprise. I think it's just about being so comfortable with who you are as a person and in your skin and your choice of sexuality, that you don't NEED anyone else to tell you what "manly" is. Keep up the good work men! Feel the feelings!

oh, let's not bring the gays into this.

If only we could ban any joke that makes anyone feel uncomfortable, what a fucking paradise the world would be.

These dumb shows aren't damaging to society any more than any other shitty show. Certain traits and activities are viewed as "manly" or "not manly" based upon thousands of years of civilization. The past several decades have seen many critical evaluations and changes in perspective regarding these traits and activities. A television executive or two thought that there was comedic potential in this. THE HORROR! THE HORROR!

I didn't see any mention of the Mid-West. Montana is in the West. Arkansas is arguably the South and middle-America is a state of mind that could and does exist anywhere in the country.

C'mon. Have you ever noticed that men are the butt of jokes in most commercials - particularly white men? The idea being that men are stupid and women are far superior. Same is true in most movies and television shows today.

does that mean that every time a white, heterosexual male is killed, it is b/c of these terrible depictions of them in the media?

Do you believe that rap causes violence?

I mean, we can go on and on in this vein. Sometimes let your political correctness take a rest. I'm sure the shows you mention are terrible - they certainly look terrible in the promos - but let's not go overboard.

Horrible sick fucks do horribly sick fucking things.
Sometimes they have excellent taste in television.
And sometimes, not. Sometimes they can't miss their programs and don't have a DVR so they stay at home to watch Breaking Bad (good tv about bad people) or some shit show about mediocre people and the rest of us are safe, even though we don't know it.
I am terribly sorry for that horror that happened in Scotland. And all the other horrors that happened last night. If people were better, as a group, many bad things would not happen. Both on screens and on the street.

I can't be the only one seeing the irony in Rykker's statement that the commenter base has degraded. Be the change you wish to see in the world, dude.

Colin, if I wasn't already married to an enlightened man, I would propose to you.

The point isn't that A causes B, the point is that the cultural narrative that results in A can and does reinforce certain fears that can drive already insecure, unstable people to do things like B. Fairly simple reasoning with a lot of sociological, psychological, and historical research to back it up. Much in the same way that a humanities education tends to lead people toward more progressive ways of thinking (depending on what sort of indoctrination they got before they went to college), which leads conservatives to (rightly) claim that most colleges are bastions of liberalism. Not everyone will get a little more liberal after a humanities-based curriculum, but you can't argue that no one will. Television reaches more people than college, so why wouldn't it have an impact on our thinking?

p.s. the murder is now thought not to have anything to do with him being Gay, though they think the murderer(s) knew him and are proceeding with their investigation.

p.p.s I believe I meant TheTruth actually.

You what sucks as much as your hate of the "be a man" stereotype? Your stereotype of "midwestern shows." You must be a guy on the coasts who has a superior view of yourself over the rest of us in "flyover country." Get off your high horse.

so you have no problem when shows depict the man as an over weight slob or a self centered poor excuse for a husband.

This site is a freakin joke. There might be one good article a week here, other than that you guys are trying to cram your narrow minded intolerant ideas down our throats.

Get a sense of humor.

Actually, I witness that change all the time, because I work at a university. Considering I just said that conservatives were correct in their claims that colleges tend to influence the way people think, I'm surprised you're trying to refute it. Do you think four years in an academic institution has NO impact on the way people think? I have empirical evidence (and many, many peer-reviewed studies) that prove otherwise. But I think you were more interested in name-calling than in engaging in a substantive argument. By all means, bring out your sources that show no one has their world view changed by attending college.

If you had spent any time here, you would have realized that I have also argued that the way film, television, advertisements, and news media depict sex and gender most certainly has an impact on the cultural narrative, and one that is largely detrimental to the formation of healthy relationships. I also believe that depictions of violence without consequence or consideration desensitize people to actual acts of violence.

But you don't want to hear that. You want to rage at the liberal without bothering to ask if she is one. So much for your ability to assess intelligence.

Reba,

Your argument was that education itself makes people liberal - which is untrue.

I never argued that colleges do not effect how people think or that kids don't become liberal in college. It happened to me - but further education (a law degree) and life experience set me straight. But at college, you learn nothing of conservative arguments, or counters to liberal arguments. You just learn the liberal arguments - over and over and over again.

Thus, it is not the "education" (i.e., by saying that you are implying that all "educated" or "smart" people are naturally liberal, which is ludicrous). It is liberal ideology forced upon students that turns otherwise intelligent people into liberals during their formative college years. Or, are you going to deny that the vast majority - somewhere near 95%, of humanities teachers are liberals? And that they use their lofty perches to push their ideology? Aside from personal experiences, I can point to tons of studies and incidents that prove otherwise. Most colleges and universities are closed systems, endlessly replaying the same tired liberal arguments over and over with no other input for students to make their own decisions.

Yes, kids tend to become liberal in college. Most come out of it after leaving school and experiencing the real world.

Regardless, I laugh at the original response to my first comment by Collin saying I didn't comprehend the post. yeah, the original article says hey, I'm not claiming that these shows make people kill gay people and then goes on to pretty much argue just that.

Yes, I suppose one can argue that everything does influence everything - so to some extent, sure, what is on tv has an effect. But at some point can we stop with the naval gazing and victim ideology wherein every little slight is considered the end of the world to agonize over?

I have a feeling that no matter how progressive the world becomes toward homosexuality, jokes will still be made about traditional masculinity or lack thereof. And, I'm not sure that's the end of the world.

John, the simple answer is that it tends to expose people to a broader array of of viewpoints than they get growing up. There are more approaches to history, more varied literature to explore, nuanced philosophy, and the chance to discuss all of that with peers. So, while it may not change their core philosophies (nor should it), most college students find that their horizons expand. It does not make all of them more open-minded, but it does seem to make many of them so.

That being said, the current narrative in the delivery of information (because not everyone is attached permanently to the internet - yet) tends to skew to the right, which also influences the way people see the world and decisions they make about what is and is not acceptable. One of those things is the resurgence of an insistence that manly behavior is synonymous with macho behavior, which is both sexist and extremely limiting. That, I believe, is the basis for Dustin's objections.

Jesus Christ people, the number of you wanting to put words in Dustin's mouth is staggering. Judge the man on what he said, quit making up conclusions based on whatever silly preconceptions you have. It's a blog post, stop trying to read an insidious anti-Midwest, pro-fat sitcom slob agenda into it.

Besides, I'm sure he'd rather you put OTHER things in his mouth. Wink wink, nudge nudge.

I can only speak for myself, but I wonder if some commenters might misunderstand some of the criticism of this article. It feels as if people might think that being critical of this article is in some way a sign of intolerance or lack of empathy for homosexuality, or crimes against homosexuals. I see no basis for this assumption.

There is also the general conservative vs liberal, east coast vs mid-west, college educated vs non-college educated, types of tiresome arguments. There is good sport in these types of arguments, but in this case they seem irrelevant also.

To me, and perhaps only me, the issue is more about the lack of subtlety and perhaps tastelessness of trying to show a relation between an idiotic sitcom(though Dustin tries initially to deny that he is making such a comparison) and a crime against a real world individual. While I can empathize with Dustin's sentiments about the crime itself, his bringing it up in the context of a sitcom review seems forced, condescending, and insulting to our intelligence. There is something hyperbolic about it, which blows things a bit out of proportion. If he wanted to write a separate article about the crime, I would have no issue. It's merely the context and setting in which he places the discussion, which strikes me as bizarre and perhaps inappropriate.

If people want to discuss the effect of fictional works on the real world, and how artists should give consideration to their potential impacts, fine. In the end though I think we could all come up with extensive lists of films or TV shows which distort reality or play up to stereotypes, which we enjoy or at least tolerate. People only tend to make a fuss about these things when they cross boundaries that they respect. It seems best not to get carried away with drumming up the troops for such mindless crusades, unless we are equally willing to have the things we cherish, which might be questionable in their own right, treated similarly. I like Oldboy, should I worry about its tolerance for incest? I liked Nip/Tuck, god only knows what that says about me considering the horrible messages people could take from that show.

So, yeah, there is a time and place for everything. This just didn't seem like the right place for this particular discussion.

Your argument was that education itself makes people liberal

Actually, Reba said that a *Humanities* (also often known as "Liberal Arts") education *tends* to make people more progressive. So. Just wanted to point that out. Not to extend this argument since, as skippy points out, it's pretty far off-topic.

So, let's all just pretend I never said anything.

*quietly sneaks away*

Forgot to mention, growing a beard and carrying a knife are not commendable because they're manly. They're just good common sense.