OK, Men's Rights Movement, Your Friendly Neighborhood Frigid B*tch Feminist is Listening: What the Hell Do You Want?
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OK, Men's Rights Movement, Your Friendly Neighborhood Frigid B*tch Feminist is Listening: What the Hell Do You Want?

By Courtney Enlow | Think Pieces | October 25, 2013 | Comments ()


Hi, men. How goes it? Would you like some tea? Perhaps a lemon-lavender shortbread cookie? I made it myself! In a kitchen and everything! You had no idea I even went in there, did you? Yeah, when I’m not busy burning my bras/middle-class sensibilities, I’ve really got nothing else to do but have babies and fetch my husband his sandwiches. So many sandwiches. Like, lots of sandwiches. Men really like sandwiches when faced with one of those uppity womens, amirite?! Ahhh. Bitches. Fer fun.

So, now that you have my audience, I just want to know *places chin on hands thoughtfully* what’s up? Are you OK? It seems like you have something on your minds. I think one of you has something you’d like to say?

Uh-huh, uh-huh, sure, sure. Sick, twisted, hateful agenda, right. But, let’s focus on the element of this video getting the most traction.

“I, a man, don’t give a fuck about rape victims anymore. I cannot force myself to give a shit. I know intellectually I should, I know that rape is a terrible crime, and being subject to it is probably a terrible thing. But, I don’t give a fuck. And the reason I don’t give a fuck is you, YouTube feminists, you victim cult, female supremacist assholes.”

Oh no! You guys! *slaps around at other women* Look what we did! We annoyed this guy with our tales of MOTHERFUCKING RAPE and bugged him to the point where he can’t care anymore!


What your movement seems to be most concerned about is our evil, wicket habit of falsely accusing you of rape (ugh, the numbers are so super high, right!) and our constant domestic violence (will no one think of the men!). You’re probably those same enterprising pioneers of equality who say things like “well, why isn’t there a White History Month or a Straight Pride Parade?” You’re so clever like that. Always thinking. I don’t think that much, it makes my small lady skull hurt. Ouch!

So, please, tell me about all the ways you’ve been cast aside by society and hurt by those cold, domineering feminists who are so always ruining everything for everyone. I mean, as you’re men, presumably straight, white ones who have never in any way been marginalized by society, my gut is telling me you’re just simpering idiot fucks who can’t process a world where presumably straight, white men aren’t the omnipotent leaders of all things. But, what do I know? You set me straight and I’ll totally listen really sweetly, like a woman should, and not at all willing you to get a horrific, flesh-eating dick disease.

Because while your “cause” is picking up some attention, no one is actually listening. You’re dogs yapping at the door while the mailman makes his delivery. You are nothing, you are nonsense, and you do not matter. You are meaningless. You are worthless. As a feminist, I love men. But you? I don’t even care enough to hate you.

More tea?

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Comments Are Welcome, Bigots and Trolls Are Not

  • John Suni

    So, if you're going to call out JTO for rejecting any moral duty to help women (i.e. his turning his back on rape victims), are you also going to call big reds comments about the epidemic of male suicide (to wit: cry me a f*cking river)?

    If not, then why not?

  • Mike

    I agree that most of the MRA movements are useless but Men's Rights is legit movement. Feminists have way too much power in the U.S.. Let's look at some of the things that a movement that is suppose to be about equality never touches upon: The fact men have zero reproductive rights and can't opt out of fatherhood for a baby they don't want, the fact there are huge sentencing disparities amongst men and female criminals, with women being diagnosed and deemed troubled while men deemed evil and beasts...for the same exact crimes. The fact domestic violence is 50/50, but men are incarcerated way more. The fact that false rape accusations hardly result in any punishment for the woman, and the fact rape is the only crime that one can be convicted of based on only the word of one person. Just because real rape exists, we should not condone the women who make a mockery of it (which statistically ranges from 2% to 60% depending on the study). The fact that child support and alimony in many states are rackets and force many men to pay for kids they aren't even allowed to see due to bitter ex-wives. There is no system in place to record how the mother spends this money. The fact that men go to jail for not paying the required amount. Would a married man who is simply poor go to jail for not supplying that same amount of support? The fact when women pay men alimony it is far less money and for a much less time period, and the fact that some states have alimony for life. The fact that society deems men unable to raise kids and overwhelmingly awards custody battles to the mother regardless of who makes more and what the kids want. The fact that we act like children are property of the mother. The fact that with all this equal rights crap, women still want men to act like a 1950s husband, and a house husband is still completely undesirable to the vast majority of women. The fact men in college get expelled for a rape accusation without any investigation, and if there is one its run by biased women's studies faculty most of the time. The fact that the delicate sensibilities of a few feminists try to ruin so many things, and force men to change things to accommodate them (E3 Expo anyone?). The fact men die sooner, are more likely to be homeless and are murdered far more, yet there is hardly any specialized help for us. The fact obamacare gives women free colonoscopies, free std testing, free checks for gestational diabetes, among women's things like free birth control, mammograms etc, but men do not get any of that nor help for male issues like free prostate exams.

    I am a poor white male. I was never privileged. I never had scholarships devoted to me due to gender or race. Even my financial aid was less then wealthier women I know. Men will respect feminism more when you stop disenfranchising men to gain unfair advantage, when you stop devoting so much energy on non issues like drunk sex is rape (but not if the man is drunk and the woman sober, and only if you regret it and the guy doesnt love you!), and you start doing the things your ancestors did that actuslly produce valid and needed change. When you stop shunning other women who don't want careers and want to stay at home by making them out to be brainwashed (I thought feminism was about free choice to live your life as you see fit), when you stop acting like gender is just a social construct, when you stop putting the needs of a few (privileged white women) over the needs of the many. Women in big cities are earning more then men, you're earning more degrees, you can enter politics, you have more options in life and choice then men do! If I don't work a career, not only do I stay lonely and childless, but I won't survive. No one is going to take me in and take care of me. Women have that option to survive, because there will always be a guy who will take care of you whether you love him or not.

    There are some things I agree with you guys, slut shaming is dumb, rape awareness needs to continue (but rape culture is bs if you actually read statistics and don't just snipe for the ones you agree with), and many other things. Unfortunately its up to you guys to earn your respect! You cannot legislate morality! Therefore stop with the shenanigans if you teally want change and start looking at the male POV for once on certain issues.

  • foolsage

    I'd like to respond to your points, but frankly you made far too many of them. Replying to only one or two seems inconsiderate, while replying to all of them would be a massive undertaking.

    To be brief and blunt, I didn't find myself agreeing with much that you wrote. While some of those statements are factual in some senses, they don't result in the conclusion that you proposed; they didn't in any sense prove either that a) women are oppressing men in a meaningful sense, or that b) women aren't being oppressed by men in a meaningful sense.

    I certainly do agree that men can be hurt by women, and that in some minor sense women have a small advantage, but I don't see that as a systemic or institutional favoring of women. Rather, to me, it's just a small offset that still leaves in place a system that overwhelmingly favors men.

  • InternetMagpie

    Fact: I stopped reading at the second sentence. You needn't waste all your precious time.

  • Mike

    It's funny how everyone commenting on my post can't even give a SIMPLE reply to why anything I listed is wrong or stupid. Not even one sentence, not even one link to data, nothing. Oh, well at least you aren't like the Jezebel crowd and most other feminists who just call you a "virgin", say you have a "small dick", "rapist" or "misogynist" when you write something that they don't agree with.

    This is the trademark of feminists, and why most of us don't even bother engaging with you. "You are wrong, because I say you're wrong!" Hahaha

  • George Tarleton

    There are almost 300 comments on this post. Skim through them if you want answers. It's not hard. There are literally hundreds of logical, reasonable debate points that argue against what you've said.

    Of course, you KNOW those answers. You know why people disagree with you. You don't care. Because the truth is that you're not here for discourse or for reason and understanding. You're here to continue to bait and antagonize and to make sure that everyone can hear you talk about yourself.

  • Mike

    Oh really? And you aren't? I don't have an outlet to express my opinions because either feminists protest and shame them out of existence or legitimacy or they're too extreme like the idiot in the video. You all have entire websites and portions of the web where all you do is agree with each other on practically everything, and launch campaigns to get people who disagree with you fired from their job or shamed on Twitter. You're just like religious nuts, or political extremists, if someone doesn't agree with you its just because they're too stupid, hateful or brainwashed by society. Considering an outsiders opinion is not an option, which is why the only sites that get attention are misogynist outlets and not positive websites.

    Not to mention the feminists that I know actually agree with much of what I say, or at least acknowledge my viewpoint, and they all deem websites like this, xojane or jezebel as feminist tabloids who've let extremists railroad the movement. These are women who don't sit in front of their computer and moan about non issues but have actually travelled to the middle east and places like Ukraine to promote women's rights...sometimes risking their lives. So before you say I'm talking to myself, what have you done besides nod your heads like sheep at anything that becomes the majority viewpoint on here.

  • foolsage

    I haven't seen anyone with extreme feminist views posting here, actually. This opposition that so befuddles you here is quite mainstream.

    I noted above that your posts have a lot of ideas, each presented in passing with no evidence or rhetorical support, as you continually move on to the next idea. That makes it difficult for respondents to know where to even begin replying to you; well, that's how it affects me anyhow.

    If you'd be so kind, just pick one argument, and let's discuss the evidence and logic in a polite and constructive manner. I think a lot of people here would be happy to engage you on that level. Argue for your idea, and let's see. Start with one concrete idea of yours about MRMs and let's see where that takes us.

  • Mike

    I have no problem doing this, but not on this website especially since I don't have a computer and it's hard to use Disqus on my shitty phone. Anyone who wants to have a serious discussion can e-mail me on my alternate gmail account - aliasam1337@gmail.com. I will CC everyone who contacts me, so it can be one big discussion.

  • emmalita

    I thought about going through your post point by point yesterday, but then I realized a couple of things and decided that I had better things to do with my time. You don't actually provide any real information in your post, just assertions and "facts" you would have a hard time backing up with data. You appear to have already made up your mind, so if I went to the effort to provide accurate information you seem like the kind of person who would dismiss it as "feminist" propaganda. I am after all both a woman and a feminist.

    You aren't wrong because any of us say you are wrong. You are wrong because the information you are using to support your argument is incorrect. And I still don't have time to provide you with accurate information.

    Life is crappy and unfair to all groups of people. Poverty sucks for everyone. Women and feminists aren't your enemy.

  • Mike

    Here's the thing, why am I going to spend the time providing links to everything I'm saying...when from my experience and even including right now...feminists either don't care, say my data is wrong (Even though it's from the government, major universities and major media news outlets), or say it doesn't matter because "this study done by the gender studies department at xyz is more valid because I say so, so you are wrong." Now I know you are going to say "not all feminists are like that", but unfortunately the mainstream is what represents your movement so therefore the little batches of logical feminists have no sway and therefore don't really matter. I didn't really come here for a debate, just wanted to post my opinion. But, I find it funny that people just refuse to post anything other then "You're wrong."

    If you want me to provide you with statistical data, and if you want me to break down why much of your tired studies are not accurate either, you'll have to e-mail or private message me or something, because I refuse to waste my time debating with people who think I automatically lose no matter what.

  • foolsage

    You don't bother to provide any evidence to back up anything you claim, because you think any evidence will be disregarded. At the same time, you've asked above for respondents to provide evidence. That seems an unreasonable double standard.

    I'd be happy to debate evidence on a single topic, but am disinterested in debating the evidence of dozens of different issues, woven vaguely together.

  • Mike

    email me - aliasam1337@gmail. It's easier for me than doing it on here and would rather not railroad this article into some huge debate.

  • George Tarleton

    I refuse to waste my time debating with people who think I automatically lose no matter what.

    That's weird, because you've been doing just that this whole time.

  • Guest

    "This is the trademark of feminists, and why most of us don't even bother engaging with you."

    And yet here you are. Isn't it time to stop blaming everyone for your deficiency in dialogue and mature conversation? Your rants sound like hissy-fits, a tribe dysentery in belittling one half of the population because of your own shortcomings in normal inter-gender behavior. Take time to get to know yourself Mike, and understand where such extreme hatred, unfounded indoctrination and propaganda might lead you.

  • Mike

    It's much easier to just call me essentially a sexist than to have logical debate...you just proved my point about feminists. You could literally have God telling you that you're wrong about an issue, and it wouldn't matter. Nothing I wrote was misogynist, insulting or ANYTHING. How did I belittle women? I didn't say anything about them, other then how SOME take advantage of men through child support, etc. If you refuse to have logical debate on something, and refuse to see other people's viewpoints then YOU are NOT an intellectual and nothing more then a fascist.

    P.S. - My girlfriend is a CEO of a start up PR firm, and is more successful and beautiful than you would EVER be. She is also a feminist, but actually understands that life isn't peaches and cream for men either.

  • George Tarleton

    Let me guess, she lives in Canada.

  • Mike

    Nope, we all live in NYC.

  • foolsage

    What did you think you'd accomplish with that postscript? You're attacking the beauty and success of a total stranger, based on total ignorance of that person's actual beauty and success. Why?

  • TK

    The fact men have zero reproductive rights and can't opt out of fatherhood for a baby they don't want

    We're done here.

  • Mike

    Of course...another one who won't say why. "You're wrong because I say so! I don't need a reason!"

  • Jezzer

    Oh, horseshit.

  • Mike

    "How dare you disagree with something I believe in! You are wrong, because I say so!"

  • foolsage

    Actually, you're only "right" because YOU say so. You didn't offer any evidence to support anything you claimed, in any post in this discussion thus far, that I've seen.

    This isn't a new issue, and a lot of us have already looked into the topic. If we disagree with you, it's not because we're zealous nuts, but because we think your views on MRMs, as presented thus far, aren't supported by reality. That's because the views you're expressing aren't new either, so we've already been exposed to them, and to refutations thereof.

    I'm happy to go into specifics, and have invited you to do so several places here. Just pick a single place to start, and let's discuss facts.

  • emmalita

    You make my heart go thumpity-thump with your eloquence.

  • Matt Baen

    What do MRAs want? Clearly, what they want is to be flexible enough to suck their own dicks.

  • MrHand

    Another reason MRAs exist is because many of them were told by feminists that being nice and "being yourself" was the best way to get women but then feminists chose to laugh loudly at guys who were doing nothing but that. This guy explains it:


  • Jezzer

    HA! Okay, who had this date down for the betting pool on how long it would be before one of them started whining about "Nice Guys"?

  • Surzel

    Let's just quote Joss Whedon:

    “Equality is not a concept. It's not something we should be striving for. It's a necessity. Equality is like gravity. We need it to stand on this earth as men and women, and the misogyny that is in every culture is not a true part of the human condition. It is life out of balance, and that imbalance is sucking something out of the soul of every man and woman who's confronted with it. We need equality. Kinda now.”

  • MrHand

    Yes. We need equality. How about fixing these things:

    "Boyhood being "diagnosed" by female educators as a condition to be cured.

    Moms putting boys on Ritalin willy-nilly.

    Boys not getting proper education because of feminized schools.

    Kids books, movies and music being "Girl power" obsessed.

    "Girl power!" in the schools.

    Boys sports getting nixed because of Title IX.

    Fewer boys going to college because of all of the above.

    College guys getting expelled over PC bullshit.

    Colleges teaching that men are "oppressors" not builders.

    Colleges not getting the irony of preaching that in venues built by men.

    The expanding definition of rape.

    A dating scene filled with women on the online-hamster thread.

    "Body image" bullshit making women think being a fatass is "body positive."

    The expanding definition of sexual harassment in the workplace.

    Women being hired because of quotas, so there may be no workplace.

    Homeless shelters that cater to women.

    The female-biased judicial system and a prison system filled with men.

    Women getting the house and kids if guys get divorced.

    Massive, insane alimony and child support.

    Debtors prisons if those payments can't be made.

    No recourse for paternity fraud.

    Few resources for men who get screwed, except sites like this.

    This site is on an SPLC list for being "hateful," but women's studies courses aren't.

    The very fact that the above could occur in a sane society.

    Men die five years younger, but entire hospital wings are dedicated to women."

  • TK

    Thank god someone has the courage to stand up for men. If not for people like you, defending the honor and sanctimony the poor, oppressed, disenfranchised male population, who else would there be to protect the rights of those who have been the most powerful group on the planet for the last 10,000 years.

  • Jezzer

    Oh, take it to Reddit. They'll indulge your manly tears there.

  • John Suni

    Wow, shaming a man & insinuating it's unmanly to emote:
    Yeah, that's not patriarchal at all.

    Feminism is the womens auxillary of patriarchy. It's all about declaring women weak & incapable to get special women-only programs from big daddy government--while denouncing men who want to be freed from their patriarchal obligations.

  • MrHand

    Dear Courtney Enlow,

    If you want to understand the main grievances of the Men's Rights Movement, you need to read this long piece in full. This is not the time for laziness. Read this piece and absorb what it has to say.


    Quote: "Executive Summary : The Western World has quietly become a civilization that undervalues men and overvalues women, where the state forcibly transfers resources from men to women creating various perverse incentives for otherwise good women to conduct great evil against men and children, and where male nature is vilified but female nature is celebrated. This is unfair to both genders, and is a recipe for a rapid civilizational decline and displacement, the costs of which will ultimately be borne by a subsequent generation of innocent women, rather than men, as soon as 2020. "

  • Will

    I think men just want Feminists to stop treating them all like the enemy, stop pretending every man is a secret racist just waiting for an opportunity to assault someone, and stop denying any responsibility whatsoever for the current state of the same world and culture youve grown up and lived in right alongside us, good and bad, gladly reaping the rewards of the spent blood and sweat of billions of men throughout all of human history.

    Stop telling men to "teach their sons not to rape" while conveniently ignoring that most of today's rapists are coming from generations of children raised almost exclusively by single mothers. Stop pretending that you dont need men when every single service, convenience, and product you rely on would instantly shut down or become unavailable if not for the tireless labor and actions of men. Stop demanding 100% of the benefits of society while denying any culpability whatsoever for its ills. Look at the world around you. You either have to admit that You Helped Build This monstrosity, or admit that you had no part in it, and thus are entitled to none of its fruits, and receive them only at the pity and benevolence of Men.

  • Surzel

    Wow, I had to force myself to read your ramblings to the end. I am scared that people like you exist.

  • Uriah_Creep

    I think men just want Feminists to...

    Please do not pretend to speak for me.

  • MrHand

    MRAs don't pretend to speak for white knight manginas.

  • Uriah_Creep

    Oh, thank Christ. I was afraid I'd have to be a crybaby who blames women for all my problems like you guys. I'll go back to believing that both sexes are equal, but that the world still generally discriminates against women. I AM MANGINA! HEAR ME ROAR!

    ETA: Oh, and I'm no "white knight". I don't look at a person's fucking parts (see what I did there?) as a condition of helping them.

  • John Suni

    So, you're statement boils down to:
    A) I'm going to choose to believe women suffer more discrimination and B) I don't let gender affect who I help.

    Did you really just fucking say that? lol, maybe review your writings before hitting post.

    See: this is what it's about. MRA's are declaring their view to any and all who will listen that women are not the ONLY or much more greatly oppressed.

    There is tons of statistical evidence (when we stop examining the top 10% of population) that men suffer just as much (and maybe more) systemic discrimination FOR OUR MALENESS as women do for the femaleness.

    Everybody from trade cons to feminists is telling men to shut the f*ck up.

    It's not happening.

  • emmalita

    Are you familiar with the Mighty Boosh? Because they have a character with a mangina that emits a powerful beam of light.

  • Uriah_Creep

    I've heard of the Mighty Boosh but had not seen any of the material. I just corrected that shortcoming, and now I'm jealous of old Gregg: my mangina just roars, while his is a high-powered spotlight!

  • emmalita

    A high-powered spotlight is flashy and eye-catching, but a roar is very impressive too.

  • Uriah_Creep

    Old Gregg and I would make quite a team for Halloween. He lights the way, I roar.

  • emmalita

    I'm swooning at the mere thought! And if it happens I need to be there!!!! Or I need photos and footage.

  • MrHand

    We don't blame "women" for all our problems. We blame society for privileging the female sex over males in certain key aspects.


  • Uriah_Creep

    Tomato, tomahto. Your agenda is still misguided, in my view. I read an MRA manifesto as well as the posting of things you think should be "fixed" downthread, and your movement blames society's coddling of females for everything but the extinction of the dinosaurs. I know I won't change your mind, and you sure as hell won't change mine, so I leave you to your narrow view.

  • Guest

    Couldn't even watch this video to the end. Sad now...

  • googergieger

    A sandwich would be nice.

  • GDI

    I don't think he knows the difference between misandry and feminism (though they aren't mutually exclusive).

    Honestly, I do find it confusing to define in a clear, precise terms (*insert tired joke about women*).
    Feminism has a myriad of different designations, from the extreme misandry, to cooperation with men, to male feminists, to the deconstruction of masculinity.

    It's a term I hate using on its own because I believe it to be generally meaningless when it comes to describing a philosophical or political stance.

    Something like "first, second, or third wave" feminism is much more illuminating and gives me the context of the ideals of a time period.

    With that said, this guy is not trying to take an honest, objective look at gender constructs of society. It's just some dickwad spitballing nonsense. I guess I'm very cold and clinical for getting a lot more angry at the "analysis of cause and effect" as a rationalization for his argument rather than the content and context of what he is saying. Perhaps if he proper evidence and proper argumentative facilities, than maybe he wouldn't just be a shithead with a Youtube account.
    We call those people DAs.

  • anon

    Goddamn men, I hate men, just the other day I was walking down the street and I saw a man looking at me while driving a car, he was trying to rape me...from his car

  • foolsage

    Forgive me, but it seems as if you're using the word "rape" lightly in a very serious context. I'm in no way saying that whatever he did was ok (I'm not truly clear on what he did, and I mean no offense), just that rape is a terrible thing and consists of considerably more than looking at someone.

  • James

    This is a common feeling in radfem spheres where a belief that all penis in vagina sex is rape since men have more power than women in society.

  • Uriah_Creep

    There is no way that I will watch that video. This shit is just another form of hate speech, and it frosts my fucking cookies. On behalf of my friends (male and female), family, and myself, let me be emphatic: we ALL feel that guys like this are fucking assholes.

    Thank you for listening.

  • placidandy

    Christ on a bike, this guy....

    Speaking as a guy, I formally refuse to be represented in any way by this ass hole. This is in no way a representation of masculinity in this or any other either then any random youtube by any random woman is a representation of femininity as a whole. Please do not assume this guy represents anything- it's just some guy.

  • foolsage

    I think almost everyone here is clear on that point. :)

  • placidandy

    GOOD! this is just plain embarrassing.

  • **I AM** NotTheOne

    I'm not a man. But think some tea and cookies would be aces, thanks.

  • By the way, Courtney....this?

    "...my gut is telling me you’re just simpering idiot fucks who can’t process a world where presumably straight, white men aren’t the omnipotent leaders of all things. But, what do I know?"

    This gave me the same surprise nipple-twitch I felt the other night when Colbert ripped into Ablow. Sort of a Scarlett O'Hara-like "Mah LORD, Mr. Colbert, such language! You're a devil, you are..." (fan face and bosom, lick lips) So thank you for that.

  • emmalita

    +1 for nipple-twitch.

  • There is no height to which the mouth cannot soar when unencumbered by the brain. Fly high, brother.

  • TheAggroCraig

    I don't get it. Fighting one form of extremism - the very insular minority of "all men are rapists so let's cut their dicks off, take that, PATRIARCHY" super radical crazy feminists - with this equally dumb extremism. It helps no one and solves nothing. And I'm sure most of these dudes have said in the past "why don't girls like nice guys like me?"

  • Finance_Nerd

    What I love about the internet is that has given me a way to find and share ideas w/like-minded people. What I hate about the internet is that I now know that there are many more bigoted and hateful people out there than I possibly could have imagined. Sigh

  • Walt Jr

    A kindred spirit, I have found in you

  • DehydrationStation

    I don't understand why Pajiba is striving to turn itself into a weird Gender War Zone. Please stop writing "Think Pieces" that do nothing but base an entire group's supposed perspective on the lowest common denominator wingnut you can find on YouTube.

    Anyone with any experience dealing with idiots (and here on Pajiba each one of you should be an expert) should be able to see that 'JohnTheOther' is being completely dishonest during most of this video. I don't believe he doesn't care about rape. I don't believe he would refuse to interrupt a rape in progress.

    Most of all, I don't believe a single word of the pointless story he told about (as I see it) his being unhappy with not receiving immediate hero worship from someone who suffered a trauma.

    Why would 'JohnTheOther' post a YouTube video so utterly full of bullshit? I don't know. All I do know is that he doesn't represent me as a man. In fact, I doubt he represents anyone but himself. When I see a video like this, I can only come to the conclusion that it is a devious false-flag operation designed by the opposition.

    So, go ahead, Pajiba. Keep fanning the fires of spirited discussion by posting the kooky YouTube videos of radical outliers who represent nobody.

  • cicatricella

    Sadly, this dude is considered to be one of the 'leaders' of his 'movement' which is all too real. If you do a search for him on Manboobz it makes for exceedingly depressing reading.

  • Are you saying that all the people who post hate-filled, ranting YouTube videos are just kidding and can't possibly believe all that, or if they do, would never say it in public? That is incredibly naive. That's like saying the KKK surely wouldn't dress up in white sheets and burn crosses on people's lawns. It must be their opponents doing that to make them look bad. You don't have to believe in crazy or hate or the toxic combination of both for those things to be real. These people are everywhere. If no one was hateful, racist, sexist, homophobic, ageist, etc., I would be out of a job. Sadly, that is never, ever going to happen. I see these sorts of people on the regular, so trust me, they are real. I just wish they weren't.

  • DehydrationStation

    No, I am not saying that ALL the people who post hate-filled, ranting YouTube videos are just kidding and can't possibly believe all that. I am saying that I believe that this one, individual wingnut is putting on an act.

    Listen to how he tells his story. He kicked the guy "four, five, six, seven, eight, nine times." That bogus off-the-cuff description is a dead giveaway.

    If redpill groups have posers, then this guy is a poser. I see these sorts of people on the regular, so trust me, they are real.

  • Jan

    In the internet, we call these lengthy responses "feeding the troll."

    Lately, it's been a troll buffet.

  • DehydrationStation

    Ah, the tried-and-true method of discounting someone else's opinion -- label it troll-feeding.

    Except... what troll am I feeding, exactly?

  • Jan

    perhaps my comment was poorly worded but I was actually agreeing with you. The youtube guy is a troll. A massive troll. This article is the food.

  • Maguita NYC

    I don't know if you honestly believe after reading Pajiba for so long that this JohnTheOther is the exception, and that others like him have not already gained mind-boggling momentum in the past few years. Many other news outlets as well as cultural and social media are covering MRM.

    The Manosphere is a reality. It started as a group of blogs that were first dedicated to men who felt the legal system has failed them and was unfair to their gender; A place where they could share experience and suggestions on legal procedures.

    This however has dramatically changed in the past year or so.

    Today there are over 30 blogs and message boards that constitute the Manosphere. Members there rant, bond, and exchange ideas. What kind of ideas?

    The kind so misogynist women would fear for not only their safety, but for their lives as well. There have been rape threats, bodily harm threats and even death threats.

    There are some considered less harmless than others, like the Pick-up Artist, where men try to score as much as possible, by any means possible, and compare. Other blogs who claim to have sworn off women altogether....

    Then there are the Men’s Rights Activists (MRAs), who are animated by many of the same misogynist beliefs as their manosphere blog-friends, but draw different conclusions about what men should do in relation to women.

    Most of the MRA sites operate on the belief that women are opportunistic creatures after your money, your house, and would only stay until they can move to a richer target. Many of the bloggers blame the epidemic of rape in the armed forces on women, celebrate Mothers Day with vicious transphobic rants, and have used the tragic death of a woman who’d just graduated from college to support that after 25, women are just wasting time.

    And that is nothing to say of their eloquent commentators. You will find everything easily. Most of these sites have between 10 000 and 16 000 members each, not including regular readers that do not actually comment (for over 30 blogs, you do the math).

    No matter what the issue is, the response from Men’s Rights Activists is the same: blame, threaten, and harass women. They are against women having access to higher education, accuse feminists for encouraging domestic violence (!) in order to profit from the situation and get more money, as well as being “child abusers” for promoting feminism.

    And as hatred begets hatred, things have escalated, which garnered media attention. There were personal attacks: One of their tactics is to put out a cash bounty for personal information such as home addresses, places of employment, email addresses, and phone numbers of feminists who upset them.

    Hate mail, rape and death threats for those on the receiving end of these witch hunts is hard to describe. Authorities found some of the threats so credible that they advised women to leave their homes.

    This is what Paul Elam had to say to 20/20 female journalist Ms. Friedman who was the first to bring he Manosphere under public scrutiny: “I find you, as a feminist, to be a loathsome, vile piece of human garbage. I find you so pernicious and repugnant that the idea of fucking your shit up gives me an erection.”

    So you see, it is an important issue affecting our daily lives. And personally I am glad Pajiba is interrupting our daily entertainment with a dose of reality that is affecting our society.

  • Matt Baen

    Kudos for pointing out the MRA / Pick-Up Artist ('Game') nexus. These PUA creeps are misogynists who spout dumbed-down, warped versions of evolutionary theory to support their misogynist obsession. Indeed, PUA overlaps with HBD (human biodiversity - an appropriation of a once-respectable term), the new brand of scientific racism (also called 'race realism'). Malignant and stupid Social Darwinist garbage in the service of vile sociopolitical objectives.

  • James

    Well can we get a think piece on Radical Feminists who feel all Penis in Vagina sex is rape. That there is no such thing as consensual sex since men are in positions of power over women due to "the patriarchy". Or how about we find a TERF blog and label all feminism as belonging to that.

    In short: assholes in all branches of "movements" ruin everything, think pieces like this accomplishes nothing.

  • Jezzer

    The difference is, radical MRAs come from a position of societal power. The patriarchy exists.

  • Actually, the comment section made me laugh multiple times, so that's an accomplishment, especially since I have to be professionally polite to assholes who think like the guy above. Regularly. I have yet to have a radical feminist in my office who has committed an offense based on their beliefs.

    You are right that extremists are not representative of the groups to which they claim affiliation, but that doesn't stop them from being dangerous and offensive, often to the general public, so pointing out that behaving in such a manner is socially unacceptable may also accomplish something.

    I don't think we get to know the full impact of anything we write, because not everyone expresses their opinion or explains the effect it had after reading. That doesn't mean it has no effect at all.

  • DehydrationStation


    No, Pajiba is interrupting our daily entertainment with a dose of pseudo-reality that is affecting very limited, overhyped and politicized pockets of society. Certainly not MY pocket of society. And it is sending the rest of us, who are here to read about movies, to the AV Club.

  • "I didn't mean to walk into this porn theater!"

  • Jezzer


    (You know, most of us figured out a long time ago that the title of an article contained vital clues to its content, and thus we were able to avoid articles that weren't of interest to us, so we could concentrate on the articles that were. This helpful hint comes to you free of charge.)

  • DehydrationStation

    Ah, Jezzer. You have misinterpreted my post just as foolsage has. Shall I walk you through it, too?

    I reposted and edited the final paragraph in Maguita NYC's post as a wry way of stating my own view. See it now? It wasn't me who originally claimed that Pajiba was "interrupting our daily entertainment", it was a throwback to Maguita NYC's comment. Get it?

    But thank you just the same for the smarmy response! Just like foolsage, you reveal how enthusiastic you are to respond to trolls, even when the post was only a troll for those with poor reading comprehension.

  • foolsage

    If you want to cleverly repurpose someone else's phrasing, good for you. When you use those words though, you're taking ownership of the message you're trying to send. Thus, when a person (or several people) point out the logical flaws or gaps in your argument, it's a meaningless dodge to say, "But those were someone else's words!" Either you're able to use them for your own message, or you aren't.

    To put it more simply, do you believe that Pajiba is interrupting your daily entertainment? Yes or no?

    If yes, then you need to explain how, or at least you need to be able to reply in case someone asks you how. I asked, but you chose not to answer and/or could not answer. Then Jezzer pointed out the same issue, and again you chose not to address the point.

    If no, then your "clever repurposing" was merely aping.

  • Jezzer

    I misinterpreted nothing. You bitched about the article, and said it was sending you -- and others like you; now there's a scary fucking thought -- back to the AV Club.

    Like that's a dire threat, instead of cause for the rest of use to turn cartwheels up and down the aisle while screaming, "HALLELUJAH!"

  • DehydrationStation

    I see you are obstinate in both your ignorance and your smarm. I wish you all the best with that.

  • Jezzer

    Yes, taking the exact things you've said and repeating them back to you is such an intellectually dishonest move on my part. I'm such a strawman builder.

  • foolsage

    How is it "interrupting our daily entertainment"? Are you somehow forced to read the think pieces when you really only want to read reviews? It almost seems as if you're choosing to do something then complaining about your choices.

    It's generally best not to claim to speak for anyone but yourself, as an aside.

    Also, TL;DR is a bit of an indictment of your attention span. It's not terribly suitable for adult conversation, from my view. If you disagree with something, fine. Saying you're too busy to read something but not too busy to reply is another way of saying that you're only interested in listening to yourself. That hardly motivates others to care about your views. If you treat others with open disrespect, you won't often find respect reciprocated.

    And that's my preaching done for the day. Take care.

  • DehydrationStation

    foolsage, you poor idiot. If you had read this thread with even the tiniest degree of comprehension, instead of knee-jerk responding to my post, you would have successfully grasped the fact that I was merely tweaking the very last paragraph of Maguita NYC's original post ("... personally I am glad Pajiba is interrupting our daily entertainment with a dose of reality that is affecting our society.").

    You are so full of your own milquetoast opinion that you were either trolled by accident or managed to troll yourself. Your cluelessness is so thick I can't even tell.

    One thing I AM sure of; that probably wasn't the end of your preaching for the day.

  • See, you started out with a good point...and then almost immediately descended into whining and name-calling. You gotta keep your head and stay on point.

  • This is awfully close to being douchey - if not over the line. I don't think anyone was that rude to you.

  • Some Guy

    If you don't think anyone was being rude, you need to reread whal fool wrote about dehdration's attention span being short and his post being not quite an adult comment.

    Seems pretty personal to me.

    And douchey.

  • foolsage

    Fair enough. DS, I apologize. I was trying to make general statements about the utility and maturity of (any and all) posts saying something else was TL;DR, but Some Guy is right, that came across as personal and inappropriate. That wasn't my intention.

  • DehydrationStation

    I don't want an apology, I just want you to leave me the fuck alone. Every time I post on this site I get an earful of your faux-charming paternal advice. You never respond to the points I make. You always manage to derail the topic. Worst of all, nobody calls you on it.
    Be sorry if you like, but also be less of a pain in my ass.

  • foolsage

    Huh. Well, to be very clear, I'm not sorry that I point out when you're rude. Also, being "edgy" or whatever you want to call it doesn't exempt you from feedback.

    As for not responding to the points you make, there's little point in responding to direct insults.

  • Jezzer

    No one calls foolsage on it because he/she is completely correct.

  • foolsage

    Eh, people still call me on it even on those occasions when I'm correct. I don't mind; I take it as incentive to try harder. ;)

    I'm an athletic straight white male by the way, of privileged upbringing. I got life's "easy" difficulty setting, and yet I still feel strongly about issues of equality, because it isn't about me; it's about how everyone is treated.

  • DehydrationStation

    Sorry, but I have had enough of foolsage constantly trying to modify my behaviour on Pajiba. If you put his sort of paternal condescension on par with rudeness, then foolsage has outdouched me by a factor of ten.

  • foolsage

    Constantly? That's an interesting word choice. Meaning no offense, I have no recollection of ever addressing this issue before the previous post.

  • DehydrationStation

    Perhaps you forget the previous Pajiba feminist "think piece" concerning Lindy West being trolled following her debate with Jim Norton? That ring a bell? You waxed philosophic for multiple posts about how I should modify my behaviour to make it more palatable to the denizens of Pajiba, and then tried to educate me on how I should take every dick-headed Twitter troll seriously despite my making efforts to explain to you what an O&A Pest was.

    And if that's not a good enough example, how about your not-so-subtly accusing me of downvoting your posts in this very thread?

    Superficially polite, manipulative and accusatory posters like yourself are a far worse plague on discussion forums than straight-up opinionated "asshole" posters like myself. Even in the brief spotlight you've garnered for yourself in this thread, you've done nothing to forward the discussion and tried to make everything about you.

    To save you having to respond to my posts in the future, please bear in mind that I am choosing to behave in a way that pleases me, and no amount of helpful or fatherly advice from you is going to change that. My edgy, provocative schtick is my style, just like quietly sociopathic manipulation and attention-seeking is yours. Except mine is just an act.

  • Jezzer

    How about getting the Pajiba banhammer? Think that might "change" things?

    (Also, if someone describes him/herself as "edgy"? That's a pretty clear indicator that they're blind to triteness.)

  • DehydrationStation

    Are you threatening me with being banned, Jezzer?

  • Jezzer

    I'm pointing out that Pajiba has included a friendly reminder at the beginning of the comments about posting that it would behoove you to read.

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