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The Worst Offenders Of Godwin's Law 2011: Celebrity Edition

By Rob Payne | Posted Under Seriously Random Lists | Comments (61)



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We have all recently been made aware, if we weren’t already, of various celebrities’ ability to overexaggerate their personal feelings on certain topics that rub them the wrong way. Sadly, this foot-in-mouth disease extends beyond bad rape jokes, and goes all the way into comparing things they hate, or their own apparent persecutions, as being in some way connected to, or as devestatingly important as, Hitler, the Nazis, and the Holocaust. Yes, Godwin’s Law isn’t just for the Internet, anymore, folks. Of course, anyone who follows the American political scene already knew that.

It seems that, for whatever reason — maybe the upcoming Mayan Doomsday? — this year has been rife with celebrities breaking Godwin’s Law. Like National Socialism was going out of style, the invocation of Hitler and/or Nazis has become so commonplace that, while initially this list was going to be dedicated to less contemporary incidents, my research found enough celebrities with poor SAT verbal section skills to make The Worst Offenders of Godwin’s Law 2011: Celebrity Edition. And the year isn’t even over, yet. If this is a sign of the Apocalypse, then 2012’s list will be at least twice as long.

Are you ready for some ineloquent ineloquence?

Susan Sarandon

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Offense Occurred: October 2011

Broke Godwin’s Law By clarifying in an interview with filmmaker Bob Balaban that she gave a copy of her film Dead Man Walking to the Pope, “The last one. Not this Nazi one we have now.” Zing!

The most recent entry on this list, as it happened earlier this week, at least Sarandon does sort of have history on her side, even if it’s patently unfair to lay the atrocities of genocide at the feet of someone who was, at the time, a small child. Pope Benedict was indeed a member of the Hitler Youth during World War II, as most of his fellow Aryan supermen were, but unless he’s been setting up pogroms and concentration camps in secret since donning the Big Hat, the Nazi comparison doesn’t hold much holy water. After all, Justin Timberlake and Ryan Gosling were both Mouseketeers, but would Sarandon accuse those two All American Dreamboats of being anti-Semitic? Doubtful, but at least she’d be consistent if she did.


Hank Williams Jr.

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Offense Occurred: October 2011

Broke Godwin’s Law By referring to U.S. President Barack Obama and U.S. House of Representatives Majority Leader John Boehner golfing together as “bein’ like Hitler playin’ golf with Netanyahu.”

For once, the dumb(est) haircut on “Fox & Friends” and I were on the same page. Neither of us were sure who was who in the above analogy, but the honky-tonkin’ voice of “Monday Night Football” clarified his message by then calling Obama and U.S. Vice President Joe Biden both “the enemy” and the “Three Stooges,” so I think it’s safe to say that Boehner isn’t the world conquering madman in that golf game. When your rhetoric shocks even these airheads, a group that nodded solemnly to Glenn Beck’s assertion that our President “hates white people,” you know you’ve gone too far. Before Mr. Williams Jr. goes shooting his mouth off again he ought to first: a) Remember that the Stooges were all, to a man, Jewish, and b) Check his arithmetic. He does get bonus points for implying that he may own a working time machine, though.


Lars von Trier

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Offense Occurred: April 2011

Broke Godwin’s Law By saying at Cannes, during a press conference with Kirsten Dunst, the star of his latest film Melancholia, that “I understand Hitler. I think he did some wrong things but I can see him sitting in his bunker. I’m saying that I think I understand the man. He is not what we could call a good guy, but yeah, I understand much about him and I sympathize with him … But come on! I’m not for the Second World War. And I’m not against Jews… I am very much for them. As much as Israelis are a pain in the ass. How do I get out of this sentence? Okay, I am a Nazi.”

No stranger to controversy, Danish filmmaker Lars von Trier has already made headlines again for both apologizing, and then retracting that apology, for the above rambling, cringe-worthy quote. He maintains that he was attempting to make a joke and that he is sorry that he’s a bad joke teller, but he’s not sorry for saying it in the first place because by doing that he would be denying himself. And if denies himself, then how could he even exist? Or something like that, I never quite got existentialism. Really, though, he ought to apologize to Kirsten Dunst for making her wade through that verbal diahrrhea for several minutes. Nobody deserves to share this particular spotlight, especially not the star of Dick. Then again, without that scene, we would never have gotten this.


John Galliano

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Offense Occurred: February 2011

Broke Godwin’s Law By not having the forethought to make sure nobody in the vicinity had a smart phone at a Parisian restaurant as drunkenly slurred, “I love Hitler. People like you would be dead today. Your mothers, your forefathers would be fucking gassed and dead.”

Christian Dior’s lead designer immediately lost the support of the fashion company’s spokeswoman, Natalie Portman (herself Jewish and from Israel). In a press release, the Academy Award winning actress stated that she would no longer be associated with the man in any way and backed this up by choosing not to wear Dior at this year’s Oscar ceremony. Scandalous, indeed. But royally ticking off one actress and embarassing yourself publicly is nothing compared to facing jail time. Turns out, anti-Semitic comments are totally illegal in France, with punishment up to six months in prison. Having seen Catch Me If You Can, I’m fairly certain French jails are much worse than their American counterparts. Whoops! Looks like John Galliano shouldn’t have concurred — with Hitler.


Kanye West

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Offense Occurred: August 2011

Broke Godwin’s Law By trying to garner sympathy for all the slings and arrows hurled his way (most recently for his “Monster” music video), during his own concert with thousands of his own fans, saying, “I walk through the hotel, and I walk down the street, and people look at me like I’m fucking insane, like I’m Hitler.”

Oh, Kanye. You’re clearly as much a performance artist as Lady Gaga, but part of your schtick is never once copping to the artifice. Comparing your staggeringly successful music career and millionaire woes to the Holocaust is pretty much the definition of why Godwin’s Law exists in the first place. You’d fit right in on most Internet comment boards (Pajiba excepted, of course), as you constantly bring us to new depths of IRL baiting and general wankery. Congrats on being a poster boy for trolls everywhere, Mr. West! You’re clearly doing the Lord’s work.


Rob Payne also writes the indie comic The Unstoppable Force and tweets on the Twitter @RobOfWar. He can’t wait to see who comes out on top (relatively speaking) of the Hitler/Nazi Sweepstakes next year.









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Comments

As many hating internet message boards pointed out, had Sarandon chosen to call the Pope "disgusting protector of child molesters" instead of Nazi, she would've been perfectly right.

Posted by: Pants at October 20, 2011 4:13 PM

So happy I'm not a celebrity or even someone who commands much attention under any circumstances. I say such idiotic things I can only imagine I'd be banished to some Arab nation sitting in a fetid cell smoking hash and selling myself for cigarettes.

Wait, I just did it again, didn't I?

Posted by: klingonfree at October 20, 2011 4:14 PM

Okay the Lars Von Trier one is just funny. Who among us hasn't started a sentence that just got completely out of control?

As far as Sarandon, she "sort of" has history on her side and the Hitler Youth were the "Mouseketeers" of their day? No. If the person you accuse of Nazism was IN THE HITLER YOUTH you haven't broken Godwin's law.

Posted by: JByrd at October 20, 2011 4:15 PM

I don't think we should be too hard on celebrities for saying ill-considered, offhand remarks. Even the most inflexible manage to stick a foot in the mouth on occasion, and I only find one of the above five comments to fall into the "offensive" rather than "stupid" category.

That said, I'm all for highlighting Godwin's Law, because - if nothing else - it encourages people to come up with more creative analogies. Good list and nice walk down memory lane.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at October 20, 2011 4:20 PM

EVERY boy was in Hitler Youth. It was conscripted. He bailed and went AWOL and was actually wanted for that crime.

Posted by: klingonfree at October 20, 2011 4:22 PM

At least it's an ethos.

Posted by: Groundloop at October 20, 2011 4:24 PM

Wonder if anyone bothered to point out to Galliano that Hitler killed a shitload of homosexuals as well as Jews.

Probably not since no one had the balls to tell him his outfit makes him look like a retarded hooker. Is that a hat or a portable roof?

Posted by: Protoguy at October 20, 2011 4:24 PM

Ratzinger was 14 when he was conscripted into the Hitler Youth. He didn't attend meetings because he wanted nothing to do with it. Technically he was *in* it, but it doesn't mean he was a part of the movement or even believed in it.

Hell, I went to Catholic school and I'm not Catholic. But feel free to picture me in a habit.

Posted by: Sofia at October 20, 2011 4:28 PM

Klingonfree is right. It was required by law for every 14-year-old to be in the Hitler Youth. JByrd and Susan Sarandon should look up the person's history before making a statement. (I don't like Ratzinger for quite a few reasons, but he isn't a Nazi.)

Posted by: FabMax at October 20, 2011 4:33 PM

Groundloop ftw.

Posted by: Ghisent at October 20, 2011 4:33 PM

JByrd: I have to admit that the Von Trier one is so horrifically awkward that it made me laugh. Especially his attempt to save himself with the follow-up that Israelis are a pain in the ass.

Sarandon's comment makes her look like a moron, sorry. I've seen her be kind of stupid a few times, talented as I think she is. It also makes it clear that she simply didn't know the names of the respective Popes.

Posted by: samantha t at October 20, 2011 4:47 PM

Is the intent of the Mouseketeers to kill Jews? I don't get it.

Posted by: Brenton at October 20, 2011 4:48 PM

Very disappointed that no one has called the creator of this list a Nazi, thereby truly proving Godwin's Law. So here, I'll do it. Making a list about people comparing things to Nazis and Hitler is something a Nazi would do. Doesn't have to make sense...it's Godwin's Law afterall.

Posted by: Okuma at October 20, 2011 4:50 PM

I appreciate that, Okuma, but until someone says, "RobP, you are a Nazi!" I'll only be marginally fulfilled.

And, indeed, calling Pope Benedict a Nazi is absolutely Godwin's Law. Not that he doesn't potentially deserve other insults tossed his way.

Posted by: RobP at October 20, 2011 5:14 PM

... because the Catholic Church never whitewashed history to maintain their infallibility and Ratzinger's past is entirely above - board.

Posted by: JByrd at October 20, 2011 5:26 PM

I don't know if it fits in the right time period, but Natalie Portman deserves to be on this list herself for her comments equating eating meat to rape, and her support of child-rapist Roman Polanski. One of those alone would be bad enough, but the combination enrages me.

Posted by: TheKateB at October 20, 2011 6:06 PM

In Kanye's defense, he didn't say that he's like a holocaust victim or some kind of martyr. He compared himself to Hitler. Still not a smart thing to say, but not nearly as bad, IMO.

Posted by: ChristianH at October 20, 2011 6:08 PM

Pope Benedict wasn't only in the Hitler Youth, in he was drafted as an anti aircraft gunner in the military at 16 and remained until 18, loading shells that were being shot at allied aircraft until he deserted in 1945 as the allies were within an inch of victory. He was captured and held as a POW. So yeah, dude was a fucking Nazi. He may not have agreed with their ideas, but the dude loaded at least a shell intended to be shot in the war.

Posted by: Gamal at October 20, 2011 6:43 PM

I have a problem with most of these people, but gotta say, Susan Sarandon is the only one that wins points for me. She is historically correct about The Pope's involvement in the Hitler Youth (Who truly knows what he could have been involved with when so many people were suffering such extreme crimes?) as well as his continued ridiculous support of Catholic priest child molesters. Good for her for standing up to all that stupidity. Susan is my hero.

Posted by: Tallsonofagun at October 20, 2011 6:45 PM

To be honest, Glenn Beck was a multiple offender of Godwin's law. Here is video evidence:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i1s4fj-5zlk

Posted by: Hod at October 20, 2011 7:03 PM

@Gamal: What do you expect a 16-18 year old to do when he's staying within Nazi Germany where probably his whole family is? Run away and then get shot for cowardice? Don't fool yourself.

Ratzinger was brought up as catholic as they go. One could argue that there were genuine Nazis in the HJ who never had another thing to hold on. But Ratzinger wasn't one of them.

Posted by: FabMax at October 20, 2011 7:11 PM

Know who else posted articles about celebrities talking about Hitler on the internet?

Hitler.

Posted by: googergieger at October 20, 2011 7:43 PM

@FabMax: I totally understand what you are saying, I personally wouldn't have loaded a single shell in aid of what the Nazi's represented, and in fact many young men refused and died for what they believed. The fact is, he was a soldier in Hitler's army and had a position in the military that led to allied deaths. That cannot be excused. I do not believe he is a wicked man, he is a soldier that happened to belong to the most disgusting armed force to ever exist in the modern era. Would you run away or fight? It isn't an easy question but it does seem weird that one of the most powerful men in the world, who follows the path of God, chose represent the evil that is nazism by loading artillery shells, rather than flee.

Posted by: Gamal at October 20, 2011 8:06 PM

My point is that the dude was a nazi. Not that he was one for long, or even loved being one, but he was.

Posted by: Gamal at October 20, 2011 8:09 PM

Honestly, Gamal, it's because Sarandon used the term in the present tense. "The Nazi one we have now." If she had said, "the one who used to be a Nazi," while I would still classify as somewhat unfair because it doesn't have any bearing on the now (I mean, I sure as hell don't want to be held responsible for the stupid shit I did as a teenager, but I see your point and it's definitely valid), it would at least be factually accurate.

But, everyone, feel free to bash him on being an enabler of child molestation. That shit is real. But it doesn't break Godwin's Law.

Posted by: RobP at October 20, 2011 8:16 PM

@FabMax: To mention one more thing, my great grandfather secured an exit from Eithiopia for my grandfather and great grandmother before he was murdered for not volunteering to be part of Graziani's Italian forces against his own people. He could have fought, chose to save his family and die rather than do what he knew wasn't right. He was a poor man whom sent his children and wife down a river on a raft loaded with only a rifle and some food. He sent his mother and sisters down later the same day. It is the hard decisions that define us. Pope Benedict made his, and I hope it has stayed with him, hanging over every decision he has made since. I hope he thinks about it as he handwaves the problems the church has been having as of late. I hope it makes his papacy more than what it has been.

Posted by: Gamal at October 20, 2011 8:27 PM

RobP: I absolutely agree. She may have been a little too quick on that present tense stuff. I'm sure there are many a parents that refer to me as "a ladies man" every time I'm mentioned even though I'm a dedicated lover of one nowadays. I just don't like that because he is the leader of a supposedly righteous faith, people declare his past life unspeakable. Plus, this whole child molestation bullshit. I would think his past decisions would help him understand why he has to be the one to speak up about it. You cant just accept things you know are wrong because you are afraid of the outcome, like loading shells in artillery as a nazi soldier when you know their ideas are wrong. Sometimes you have to stand up and tell everyone what is going on, even if it hurts you.

Posted by: Gamal at October 20, 2011 8:36 PM

"Is the intent of the Mouseketeers to kill Jews? I don't get it."

Posted by: Brenton at October 20, 2011 4:48 PM

Disney was supposed to be a major anti-semite. He was also kinda anti-religion in general, but I guess the anti-semite part trumps the rest...

Posted by: Protoguy at October 20, 2011 8:52 PM

"... because the Catholic Church never whitewashed history to maintain their infallibility and Ratzinger's past is entirely above - board."

Posted by: JByrd at October 20, 2011 5:26 PM

Any other revelations aside, the man was too young to have done much, vis-a-vis being a Nazi. It's not like he could have been a guard or something. Plus the fact that the blanket condemnation of any male his age from Germany is kinda stupid.

Posted by: Protoguy at October 20, 2011 8:56 PM

How great that all you folks are so perfect.

Posted by: klingonfree at October 20, 2011 9:01 PM

@Gamal - "I totally understand what you are saying, I personally wouldn't have loaded a single shell in aid of what the Nazi's represented, and in fact many young men refused and died for what they believed."

That is the argument of a child.

It's a lot like saying "If I was a slave, I'd have told that plantation owner to go fuck himself."

It's bullshit posturing.

All people seem to know about Nazi's is that they killed Jews. You have no apparent perspective, no concept of Nationalism, no concept of familial loyalty or national loyalty, no concept, despite our own horrid recessions, of what pre-war Germany was like, nor what wartime Germany was like either, apparently.

You have no idea whatsoever what this young man's life was like, what he really believed or why he remained in Germany throughout the war. There are a million very good reasons why he would have stayed, and, realistically, only a handful of reason why he might have fled. And like most Germans, he could have been completely oblivious to the real horrors of Nazi rule.

People still seem to forget that there's this thing called TIME and it only goes forward. People still act as though the average person totally knew what was going on at Aucshwitz or the other camps during the war. The average person, American or German, didn't have the knowledge we do now. The war was about traditional wartime memes - conquest, national glory, or in the case of the Allies, standing up to aggression. The underlying genocide was all but unknown until the camps were liberated. You can argue the whole "our gov knew" conspiracy crap, but the average person had no idea and to base your judgment of his subsequent choices based on that is stupid.

Posted by: Protoguy at October 20, 2011 9:15 PM

@Gamal - Your great grandfather was a brave man, but his story is very different. A 16 or so young man is not the patriarch of a family and wasn't being asked to make the hard decision to protect his family like your GGF was.

Loading ammo to protect your country and, by extension, your family (and yeah, yourself) isn't at all like being pressed into shooting your own people. And simply because he chose to remain isn't a guilty sentence.

Posted by: Protoguy at October 20, 2011 9:22 PM

That is the argument of a child.

Aw, but, Protoguy, that isn't how you win hearts and minds.

Posted by: RobP at October 20, 2011 10:22 PM

In Mel Gibson's defense

Wait... What were we talking about?

Posted by: MRod at October 20, 2011 10:29 PM

Dunno if I'd edit that or not if I could.

It's just funny to me that we're criticizing celebs over comparing people to Hitler as we compare one man to all Nazis and all Nazis to Hitler

Posted by: Protoguy at October 20, 2011 10:51 PM

I was incredulous when I heard about Hank Williams Jr.'s rant as it was a retard-off between media commentators and old Hank. The way it was reported, they made it sound like he called President Obama Hitler. When you read what he said in the first instance, though, he was merely remarking that Boehner and Obama are strange bedfellows. When some idiot asserts he likened Obama to Hitler, he proves himself the dumber person in the room by not being able to defend himself. Then the media goes on a tirade about the whole thing. Honestly, a person with contagious ebola at LAX could not spread the disease as fast as stupidity spreads these days.

Posted by: Darcy at October 20, 2011 11:04 PM

I don't care if Ratburger was conscripted or enlisted. I don't care what he did as a kid.

What he has done as an adult and as a Pope makes him a fucking bastard. He shelters men who rape children and he travels to AIDS-ravaged countries and tells them that God says condoms are evil.

Fuck him. Hitler admires his work.

Posted by: The Mutt at October 20, 2011 11:15 PM

@Protoguy No, that is the argument of an educated historian. I could write an essay discussing government and the social views of wartime populations but I am not at work. I am not going to correct your wrongly stated facts about the knowledge of atrocities amongst Germans. Or how trains loaded with Jews passed through toward the Dachau Concentration camp which was located 3 miles from the city he was stationed in. He couldn't have freed them, if he wanted to. Yet he was old enough (18!) to understand what was going on, he was an active Flakhelfer for two years, an active nazi soldier. If we asked Audie Murphy what he thinks about an 18 year old soldier...

@The Mutt nailed it though, so fuck that ex-nazi conscripted dude.

Plus, to compare a slave to a soldier is silly.

Posted by: Gamal at October 20, 2011 11:35 PM

You know, I'm surprised how often conversations that revolve around Nazis go horribly wrong. Who'd have thunk it?

Posted by: Mrcreosote at October 21, 2011 12:08 AM


a big amen to everything protoguy said. ballsy comments about
what someone would have done in a situation that they have
no familiarity with is absolute posturing.
as for sarandon , she is one of the loud mouthed liberals who
created the concept of political correctness but applies it only to
those who disagree with her predictable political diatribes and
never feels constrained by p.c. herself.

Posted by: snake at October 21, 2011 12:20 AM

Isn't saying someone broke Godwin's Law like saying they broke the Law of Gravity?

But more importantly (and screw you guys for making me get into all this Pope stuff, some of you are worse than Hitler...zing!) saying what you would have done or what someone else should have or could have done is absurd.

In all of the comments about how Ratzinger is a terrible man for being an anti-aircraft gunner (maybe he made sure to miss all Allied planes, you don't know) not one mentioned what Americans should have done about our friend and ally Joseph Stalin.

You guys know the Great Purge wasn't about giving every Russian a colonic, right?

Posted by: Jordan at October 21, 2011 2:04 AM

You are right Jordan, there are so many leaders out there that we should be discussing. Stalin was horrible, Mao slaughtered millions...these guys did most of their damage after the war was over simply to secure their own power. Maybe Ratzinger loaded every shell slowly to delay a shot. I also believe that his experiance during that era reaffirmed his decision to continue his seminary training and probably still bothers him. It must be something that ate at his dreams for years. I don't think he is an evil man, or a swaztika waving nazi (in fact the records show that he wasn't), but I do wish he'd do something about the sexual abuse in the Catholic Church. Or at least acknowledge that it exists and is a serious problem. Of all the people in the world, one would expect the pope to say something.

Posted by: Gamal at October 21, 2011 2:40 AM

(Watch me defuse this tense and awkward situation with my new award winning catch phrase.)

Man reading these comments, talk about a boner killer. Amirite?!

Posted by: googergieger at October 21, 2011 4:28 AM

As an Austrian with relatives who fought on both sides on almost every front save the Japanese, I must agree with Protoguy. Obviously I cannot compare having relatives drafted to the German army with having relatives who fought in Vietnam or for the South or against Native Americans, without breaking Godwin's Law.
But if you were born at a time before international (let alone live) media or travel were available to the average citizen, and raised in a dictatorship where society, schools and the media brainwashed you from an early age, where neighbors could report even an errant comment to the secret police leading to the arrest of your entire family and the after school boy/girl scout program was mandatory training in warfare and hatred? Most kids believe what they are taught by their cultures until their late teens regardless of what that culture may be. I would love to think I would have known things were awry and acted accordingly regardless of the cost, but given the stories I've heard from people who lived in day-to-day National Socialism I honestly don't know. But I do know that this uncertainty cause me to stop and question every system I'm a part of in a way that makes me a better citizen and human being.
Final point: While not a fan of Ratzinger in particular or Popes in general, where exactly was he supposed to flee to once he realized he was fighting the bad fight? Look at the historical maps! All the surrounding countries were occupied by the Nazis and let's not even talk about how many refugees Switzerland turned away.

Posted by: cinekat at October 21, 2011 4:59 AM

'I've heard so many comics do a bit about how, 'Oh, isn't it scary that this Pope used to be a Nazi?'

Not if you look at their track record side-by-side; the Nazis versus the Catholic church?

...

I'd be far more scared if someone came up to me and said, 'Hey, you know that new Nazi - he used to be a Pope!'

Holy shit, I'm fucking outta here!'

- Stanhope

Posted by: zeke the pig at October 21, 2011 5:18 AM

As is so often true Protoguy nails it.

@TheMutt "What he has done as an adult and as a Pope makes him a fucking bastard. He shelters men who rape children and he travels to AIDS-ravaged countries and tells them that God says condoms are evil.

Up to here you're expressing an opinion - a kind of retarded opinion, but certainly a defensible one, if you're willing to ignore the lower rates of AIDS in Catholic areas in Africa, and the lack of any proof that he's 'sheltered' any paedophiles.

Fuck him. Hitler admires his work.

And now you've Godwinned yourself.
It doesn't even make any sense. What exactly makes you think Hitler would admire the spread of AIDS or the protection of child molesters?
Or does Hitler just agree with everyone you don't like? That sounds like a rational position to take.

Posted by: Ender at October 21, 2011 5:19 AM

@Protoguy
I agree with your reply to Gamal, I just have my own two cents to add.

While surely not everyone in Germany (or Austria) was aware of the full scale of Nazi atrocities, it´s save to assume people didn´t think all those jews and other minorities just vanished into thin air. They probably didn´t inquire all that sharply either when they moved into homes that formerly belonged to jews. Humans have an great ability for selective perception when it´s convenient or when doing otherwise could get you killed.
That is not to say that people are or were fundamentally different in other places. Every day now you can see what people all over the world are willing to believe or choose not to see, especially when the economy is in bad shape.

Posted by: qualtinger at October 21, 2011 7:33 AM

@ZekethePig "'I've heard so many comics do a bit about how, 'Oh, isn't it scary that this Pope used to be a Nazi?' Not if you look at their track record side-by-side; the Nazis versus the Catholic church?
... I'd be far more scared if someone came up to me and said, 'Hey, you know that new Nazi - he used to be a Pope!' 'Holy shit, I'm fucking outta here!' - Stanhope"

Stanhope's usually quite funny, and this is funny for the reversal, pacing, and delivery - but if you think it makes any kind of rational point you're fucking stupid. If the Catholic church killed people at the same rate as the Nazis did there'd be no-one fucking left.
If the Catholic church had ever slaughtered innocents on a mass scale using industrial methods of murder he might have a point. As it is, they didn't, haven't and never will. It's like accusing 'Muslims' of being Nazis because historically some Muslims have killed people - i.e. racist and fucking stupid. You're not racist and fucking stupid right?

As it is, it's just another example of a moron Godwinning himself - though hopefully in Stanhope's case he was just trying to be funny - you look like you might believe it.

Posted by: Ender at October 21, 2011 9:31 AM

"They probably didn´t inquire all that sharply either when they moved into homes that formerly belonged to jews. Humans have an great ability for selective perception when it´s convenient or when doing otherwise could get you killed."

They didn't question what happened to the previous owner because if they did they SS would be knocking on their door, too. That's the thing with oppressive governments that control speech and encourage its citizens to rat out their neighbors. Everyone collectively turns a blind eye out of fear.

It wasn't just jews and homosexuals that were dragged off to concentration camps. They also took regular folk who spoke out against the government...

Posted by: Some Guy at October 21, 2011 9:37 AM

While not denying that there were thousands of Germans, Austrians and others who were gleeful to see the Jews deported and murdered, I assure you that anybody who has worked for any period of time in a corporate environment knows a tiny bit of what it was like to be in Germany in the 1930s. You don't agree with what's going on but you shut up and ignore a lot of it because otherwise you will be ostracized, frozen out and eventually they will find a way to get rid of you. If people behave this way just because they might lose a job (and they do every single day), imagine how you would behave if your life was at stake. Anyone who says "I would have behaved differently" is being naive at best.

Posted by: PaddyDog at October 21, 2011 11:11 AM

I'd just like to chime in that no matter what The pope believed, felt, or intended. He loaded Nazi guys in war time. He was a member of the nazi armed forces. He WAS A NAZI. That isn't hyperbole or exageration. It doesn't matter if he liked it or had to do it. He did it. He is a pope that at one point was a Nazi soldier. That's not Godwin's law. That is a statement of fact. Intent means nothing, He did that. It happened. If you're grandfather fought for the south in the civil war, he was a confederate. Does that mean he was a racist bent on destroying a culture? No. But, he was a confederate, just like the pope was a Nazi. sorry but that's a fact.

Posted by: Blank at October 21, 2011 12:10 PM

Paddydog I want to ride off into the sunset with you. Or at least sneak a few beers into a movie with you sometime.

Posted by: klingonfree at October 21, 2011 12:27 PM

@Blank: it's pretty clear you haven't studied things as they were back then enough to where you can comment intelligently or, more importantly, with empathy on it.

But regarding this comment thread's greater question of the history of the Catholic Church versus that of Nazi Germany: it's a fair comparison if you aren't just myopically looking at the Final Solution. The Catholic Church has supported plenty of Fascist and Fascist-like governments in the 20th century - e.g. Franco's Spain. And when they had far more power than they have in the last 100 years, when the Pope had an absurd amount of unchecked power, blasphemy and disobedience were indeed life-and-death matters.

This is the thing about Godwin's Law: it is also, ironically, applied too often. Hitler did many odious things that we can fairly compare to other matters to bring a light to their totalitarian nature. "Hitler said the same" does not necessarily translate to "JEW-SLAUGHTERER!".

To bypass it all (or perhaps just cheat), I tend to make my comparisons to Mussolini. ;)

Posted by: Adam at October 21, 2011 12:51 PM

"If people behave this way just because they might lose a job (and they do every single day), imagine how you would behave if your life was at stake"

And the lives of your family and loved ones.

@Blank "I'd just like to chime in...

Why? Did you see anyone denying that he was a Nazi? Or did you just think you were a special snowflake with an opinion nobody had thought of before? He was a member of the Nazi youth, 'a Nazi' if you will, this is a matter of historical record that even Catholics do not deny.

The key that Susan Sarandon said: "The last one. Not this Nazi one we have now.” when talking about Popes.

I was in a wheelchair for a portion of my youth but I have not been for many years now, would you accept her saying "The last Ender. Not this wheelchair-bound one we have now"?

If not, then you have no beef with the OP.

Posted by: Ender at October 21, 2011 12:51 PM

I'll send this to Godwin; he'll get a kick out of it!

Posted by: Pragmatist at October 22, 2011 12:39 AM

The thing is that, wherever totalitarian governments are concerned, it's not just the 'enemy' who can't loose the gaze of the power centre. The interactions between the SS and the pre-approved segment of society wasn't limited to the realm of reactionary hostility resulting from this transgression or the other. Compliance and confinement were crucial to keeping the goosestepping at a manageable pace. Since you can't rely on loyalty, placing restrictions on the general public makes for a good babysitter and puts the kibosh on counter-revolutionary snitching. Ideology? Whatever. Bureaucratic formality drove that car. Say you want to go around the world and speak of the evil occurring, bear witness to the unimaginable suffering of the innocent and basically tell the whole planet about how evil the Nazis are? Okay, but if you want to get out of the country, you've got to become a member of the Nazi first.

Posted by: Jo 'Mama' Besser at October 22, 2011 4:56 AM

Um... huh?

Posted by: Brian at October 23, 2011 1:02 AM

@qualtinger - Actually, I'm certain there were plenty inside Germany, aside from the actual troops working the camps, who knew what was going on, just as I'm sure there were many who would have been glad if they did know. That doesn't make them Nazis. It's human nature to hate. The Nazis made it law.

Posted by: Protoguy at October 23, 2011 4:02 AM

"special snowflake"

From this moment forward, within the Pajiba Commentary forum, my newly-adopted identity will officially be known and hereinever after referred to, if warranted, simply and yet sublimely symbiotically, as

'special snowflake'.

Out of such scintillating and passionate debates arise ideas both revolutionary and revelatory, borne unto the ever-undulating miasma of human existence.

Posted by: special snowflake at October 23, 2011 1:35 PM

Any body remember when a "celebrities" opinion was relevant to anything? Nope me neither. Any one remember when $arandon was hot? Yeah me to, I am over it.

Posted by: clancys_daddy at October 23, 2011 3:29 PM

Glad to have been of help SS (nee Blank)

Posted by: Ender at October 25, 2011 6:57 AM