Pajiba

The Sofia Vergara rape quote is something that simply doesn't translate culturally. "Rape" in English (in the US) and the word "Rape" in Spanish (Colombia) have very different emotional connotations. Technically they mean the same thing, but it's just not as heavily charged word in Spanish. There is a whole "can't admit I had sex out of wedlock so we'll chalk it up to me not REALLY wanting to" thing that's hard to understand unless you're familiar with the culture.

The Johnny Depp thing, I dunno... maybe he meant it feels dehumanizing? Not to defend the guy, but he's never struck me as insensitive.

Sometimes people say stupid shit. Sometimes it's established "nice guy" Johnny Depp.

I think we may end up creeping towards the inevitable discussion about forgiving the stupid comment because for some reason you otherwise "like" the person who spat out the offending idiot remark.

Sometimes it's Johnny Depp who offendeth and sometimes it's Michael Richards or Mel Gibson or fill in your personal umbrage blank.

Fame does not equal intelligence.

Barf. Well, that's rape culture for ya. Even the most likable of famous folks (and regular folks) aren't exempt from it.

Johnny, I love you, but that was one fucking idiotic thing to say. Stick with the old stolen soul thing. Nobody gives a shit about souls anymore.

So, Hollywood, if you’re listening, I’m sorry your lives all suck so bad. But they’re not THAT bad
So you have both been raped and are a A-lister Hollywood star who knows the feeling of your most private moments being violated by paprazzi or even the feelings you get from a high profile photo shoot?I mean you must oterwise you are doing the same thing that you are accusing the stars of right? Talking out of their ass about things they have never experienced and can't possibly comprehend?

Also, YesPlease makes a good point.

Ah its fascinating to me how some celebrities get a pass for this clueless behavior and some dont.

celebrities are followed day and night by microphones and what they say goes into print and then across the web. that once in a blue moon someone might say something not thought out, or while searching for a word ended up with a insensitive hyperbole doesn't seem a great justification to go to war in a frothy rage.

hell, on this website barely a day goes by that someone doesn't say their childhood is being raped by a remake.

it's hyperbole. like when we say someone has murder in their eye, we aren't really accusing them of being homicidal

people who have been hurt suffer all kinds of things that others cannot imagine, and can be sensitive about a great many things, justifiably so. but there are limits to how controlled and buffered the universe is going to be.

people make thoughtless comments and analogies for emphasis every day. i'm sure soldiers don't love when people make PTSD jokes over a rough day at the office, and many people get offended when autism is lightheartedly used as a synonym for socially awkward. (the list here is potentially endless)

there's never going to be a perfectly sanitized offensive to no one language

And what Lucas did with the Star Wars prequels wasn't rape either.

He did also defend Polanski so I am not surprised that his choice of words for his ridiculous, pampered photoshoot includes rape. Gazillionaire movie starts should stop comparing their silly obligations to violent, sexual assaults. This comparison IS a big deal, not just a slip up. He should know better that this is offensive to people who have been actually raped. If you guys are so willing in letting him to 'casually get away with it' then these people will not learn to stop throwing rape away as a flippant comment in their safe, perfectly lighted sets.

Oh god, this is going to be a shitshow (the comments, not the post, which I appreciated).

Maybe we could just agree on the following:

1) It is a bad idea to compare things to rape.
2) It is a bad idea to compare things to rape even if you are Johnny Depp.
3) A lack of bad intentions does not mean you are immune to criticism. The fact that we kind of understand what you are getting at does not mean that the words you used stop being offensive.
4) Acknowledging that Johnny Depp said something that is, at a minimum, really insensitive does not mean you need to shun him forever (or even at all!).
5) The fact that this was "just words" or that "everyone says stupid stuff" does not mean that we shouldn't call out shitty things people say. It isn't overreacting to point out that this is a common analogy and a really bad one.
6) It is in fact possible to talk about feeling violated or vulnerable or about something bad happening to you without using the word rape. And if you have trouble doing so, I suggest your problem could be better remedied with a thesaurus than with an offensive analogy.

I get that he was just being hyperbolic. This interview isn't going to affect my decisions to see any of his future movies in one way or another. It's not a big deal to me. It's just a poorly thought out, off the cuff remark, but I can see why people would get upset. And you know what? When we (the little people) get caught offending someone with an insensitive remark, we usually just have to apologize, acknowledge that it was a mistake, and show people that it wasn't really what we meant. That's all I think he needs to do here. Maybe not at some big press conference, but if it comes up in subsequent interviews, there's his chance.

I also think there's at least a little bit of a distinction between telling a joke and what Depp's saying here, which seems to be serious. Not a huge one mind you, but at least with the jokes you can be sure that the person doesn't actually believe what they are saying.

1 in 6 women and 1 in 30 men in the US have been sexually assaulted (usually by someone they were in regular contact with) at least once in their lives (often when they were children). Rape is something that happens to a lot of people. Most people have a friend or family member who's been raped, whether they know it or not. This may come as a surprise to Hollywood, but rape survivors buy movie tickets. Survivors and their friends and families probably aren't going to pay $15 to watch a man who makes light of their pain.

It seems to me some people are a bit too sensitive about it, he was figurative.
If he said he feels 'physically attacked' by paparazzi no one would have gotten his panties in a knot.
As I see it any kind of violence deprives the victim of his basic humanity.
'Rape' has become a serious no-no buzz word and everyone who uses it not in the most direct sense immediately tagged as insensitive and frowned upon.

By your logic, YesPlease we are either to assume Depp has also suffered rape, or we can go right back to saying that comparing a paid gig where he gets his picture taken to sexual assault is a crappy and misguided thing to do.

Since I have had my picture taken in ways that are dehumanizing and make me feel objectified, I can honestly say that it is nothing at all like rape. It's like being dehumanized and objectified. You know what's like rape? Rape, and not any other goddamned thing. Not taxes or remakes or miscasting of your favorite childhood book or being forced to work on the weekend or anything besides actual sexual assault. Sort of like being shot is nothing like anything except being shot.

I am so very tired of hearing "he didn't mean it THAT way." Apply that to other offensive words/statements and get back to me on how we should give Mel Gibson - or Hank Williams, Jr. - a pass.

I'm not defending his comments. I'm really not. And I absolutely get that rape is a complicated subject, a vile, repugnant, invasive, violating crime and that it requires the utmost of care and respect when being discussed. And, yes, I don't believe the word should be used quite so casually.

BUT with that said, what about murder? Isn't murder a horrible, repugnant crime that affects victims and their families? Are we drawing the same line? Is it unacceptable to say that "my team got murdered in the game last night"? Can that not be used casually either? Are we holding these things to the same standard?

Should we? If not, why not?

I can't believe people here are blinded by Depp's stardom so they dismiss this comment. This is the same man who also defended Polanski, who raped a child.

If he made a racist remark you would be on his ass but "rape" is apperently nothing and can be compared to a bloody photoshoot.

I am seriously confused by the people who are reacting like Johnny Depp is suddenly a rapist now, as opposed to someone who stuck his foot in his mouth. Maybe an eye roll and a pass for a guy who is, by all accounts I've ever read, a thoughtful and generous human being? Haven't you ever said something idiotic and immediately regretted it?

Oh my God. Johnny Depp said something stupid and shallow. Crap, before you know it these people might figure out that "Almost Famous" was not the greatest movie of all time and John Hughes was just a director of crappy 80's movies. What next!

I want to pop him on the back of his head and tell him to shut his mouth. Much like I did to my 12 year old last night when he said "asshole" at the dinner table. Can he speak that way with his friends? Yes, he can. At the table withi his family ? No, he cannot. The lines between private talk and public talk are blurry for him. He's 12.
So, when my sometimes bumbling, clueless tween stands up to some jackhole bastard on the bus who is making rape jokes and talking all kinds of shit "because that shit isn't fucking funny" and gets suspended from the bus for 3 weeks for his language while the rape-humorist gets nothing, I am proud of my kid and gladly work out his transportation until his punishment is overturned and the situation is handled correctly.
If my tween knows it's off-limits so should a grown fucking man. It's not cute, clever or comparable.

@ Ghisent

I think the difference is that murder is virtually always recognized to be a serious and bad thing. Whereas rape is often talked about as a serious crime in the abstract, but when a real life situation arises it's excused, or minimized, or doubted, or outright ignored. So when rape is compared to things that are in no way comparable to it, it's both the result of and a contribution to the belief that a lot of rapes aren't a really, really horrific and inexcusable thing that is miles away from having your picture taken.

I also think that there's a difference between "my team got raped in the game last night" and "that photoshoot was like being raped". I don't like the former, which takes this terrible crime and uses it to hyperbolic ends, but at least it's clear that you don't actually think that what happened to your team was like rape. Whereas the way Depp and other celebrities have used the word to describe having their picture taken makes it sound like they do believe that it's a similar kind of violation (not the exact same, but similar).

(I would also guess, though I don't have data to back this up, that the word rape inspires a more personal and visceral reaction from victims of sexual assault than the word murder does from family and friends of someone who was murdered. That isn't to say that a loved one being murdered is somehow less painful than being sexually assaulted--I don't really think the two can be compared--but many victims of sexual assault even years later find casual use of the word rape really hurtful and traumatizing, whereas I know fewer people who have been impacted by murder who find casual use of that word to be as hurtful.)

Whereas rape is often talked about as a serious crime in the abstract, but when a real life situation arises it's excused, or minimized, or doubted, or outright ignored. So when rape is compared to things that are in no way comparable to it, it's both the result of and a contribution to the belief that a lot of rapes aren't a really, really horrific and inexcusable thing that is miles away from having your picture taken.

Well said, Artemis.

I have to give my own pat on the back here to Artemis. Thank you. You articulated my own thoughts on this matter much more eloquently than I ever could have.

That isn't to say that a loved one being murdered is somehow less painful than being sexually assaulted--I don't really think the two can be compared

But you ARE comparing them. Just like folks in this thread are comparing rape to racism. Which is just as offensive on BOTH ends.

If you don't think they should be compared, then don't compare them. And if you do that, then you can't try to defend a hyperbolic use of murder as being any different from one of rape.

Yes, we have all said insensitive and stupid things. But we don't have that sort of megaphone. If called out on our word choice or behavior, most of us will admit that we could have used different, better, more accurate words, or that we were in full out douche mode, and then we'll apologize for upsetting the person. I see very little in the way of that from public figures.

Uh, yes we do have such a thing. It is called the internet. Trolls, cyberbullying, fraud, naked photos and sex tapes; all kind of crap people get away with simply by being "anonymous". They are actually working on ways to make such activity illegal, under the guise of making people more responsible for the crap they let fly from their mouths. Even now, people are advised to monitor their online activity to prevent employers or such from seeing unflattering material attached to you. So yes, we do have a microphone for our most inane and idiotic of moments, and very little in the way of editing or apology can make up for it once it is out there. We just don't engender the same level of schadenfreude that a celebrity does.

You know what? Whatever. We go through this every time the media brings up a new supposed scandal. You people want to pat yourselves on the back to admonishing another "idiot celebrity with fame gone to his head" or whatever bullcrap you decide to throw upon him (since nobody here seems to know him outside of said celebrity window) on a random movie website, when it will have no real bearing on the people he supposedly insulted, have at it. Have your righteous indignation and choke on it.

Oh sorry, shouldn't say that. I will trivialize choking victims.

If photoshoots are like rape, that means rape is like a photoshoot, or if a team loses a game is like rape, that means that rape is like your team losing a game. Putting it this way round would be considered unacceptable by most people; why then is the former tolerated?

People should be held accountable for saying stupid shit. We don't know if he regrets it or not; we don't know if he even realises his choice of words was offensive or even problematic.

The difference between using the word "kill" or "murder" and "rape" as a metaphor is that the former are generic, not gender-specific. Rape (in most cases in the Western world) is associated with women, who are robbed of their choice and person-hood while men retain theirs. Casual use therefore contributes to a culture where it is acceptable to dehumanise and violate women, where rape is not considered to be serious.

Rape is something that is becoming more and more widespread as an analogy for a momentary inconvenience rather than a serious crime. If Johnny Depp apologises for trivialising the issue that could go a small way to changing this - but he won't do that unless people protest.

(And, unlike a lot of female actresses, particularly younger ones, he gets to keep most of his clothes on for said photoshoots.)

You people want to pat yourselves on the back to admonishing another "idiot celebrity with fame gone to his head" or whatever bullcrap you decide to throw upon him (since nobody here seems to know him outside of said celebrity window) on a random movie website, when it will have no real bearing on the people he supposedly insulted, have at it. Have your righteous indignation and choke on it.

Or we could just be having a discussion over the power of words, how experience informs our views, the constant trivializing of a crime that mostly affects women, and the places where our individual lines are drawn in terms of how we regard people who toss the word rape around as if it has no deeper meaning or cultural impact. But you apparently missed that part in your rush to condemn us for having an opinion.

From where I'm sitting, if someone is okay with trivializing rape and using the word to mean any minor inconvenience, and further insists that anyone who finds such thing offensive is somehow overreacting regardless of their reasons, then they're part of a culture of rape apology. That doesn't mean I think they condone rape; it means that making light of the horrific experience is akin to trivializing it, and attempting to shut up people who object to that is actively trying to marginalize them. I am not sure why victims of rape and those who help deal with that trauma are asked to stay quiet when the world belittles their experience, but it happens every time the topic comes up. Every single damned time. I find that interesting.

That doesn't mean I think they condone rape; it means that making light of the horrific experience is akin to trivializing it, and attempting to shut up people who object to that is actively trying to marginalize them. I am not sure why victims of rape and those who help deal with that trauma are asked to stay quiet when the world belittles their experience, but it happens every time the topic comes up.

Well, I might as well condone it, considering all the negative connotations you attach to such comments.

Making a stupid comment does not mean a person condones rape, nor that they are contributing to the dissemination of rape culture. And stating that the supposedly moral outrage thrown at such a comment may be farfetched and over-exaggerated does NOT mean someone is trying to shut down any and all real discussion of the issue. I don't want you to shut up; I would like it if you'd reconsider the actual severity of the slight compared to your reactions. I am not trying to keep anyone from talking about rape at all. I am simply saying that there are much more effective points to take a stand on than this.

If anything, taking slight against a person because of an ill-advised comment (especially when the comment was not intended to be insulting, and not being the target of said insult) is also trivializing it, because it scares people who may actually WANT to have serious dissertation on the issue from doing so because they may say the wrong thing and get ostracized for it. And even if he apologizes or makes some act of contrition, nobody is going to accept it. They will simply sit and wait until he messes up again, and fling out another "toldja so". It might as well be as if he actually did rape someone.

Hell, with all the smarmy yahoos crowing about his defense of Polanski, it has already begun.

Johnny Depp doesn't look at rape like normal human beings do. He's worked with a child rapist before with no moral dilemma even though he is a father. These hollywood people with their warped sensibilities make me sick.

Getting paid millions to promote a stupid movie is rape to him? He can kiss my ass.

Sorry, but I'm tired of people going up in arms over the use of words they can't deal with. This is the problem of the hearer's not the speaker's.

And before we get into the whole "blaming the victim" argument, remember that no one was raped, ok?

No one, not even Johnny, really, really feels that the camera is raping them. That the photographer is bending him over the casting couch and violating him with his zoom lens. Anyone can see he's just trying to find a visceral word to describe his issues with something he doesn't like doing.

It's called hyperbole, isn't it?

Yeah, rape is horrible. So is being retarded. And this is a stupid as trying to ban the word "retarded" because it's offensive to people who are (mostly the relatives of people who are) retarded.

The idea that we all somehow have the right not to ever be offended or be made uncomfortable or hear a contrary word is retarded.

No offense to Courtney, but this is why people think the media make up controversies. Because they do.

Roman Polanski should've been in jail almost 40 years ago. That fact that he nevewr served his sentence and still wins Oscars is an ethical and moral crime. The actors who work with him have no ethics themselves along with the people who work to put his films on screen. Almost no one in the hollywood community will stand up and say this. Its not right, yet get any actor out there and have them make a racial or assholic remark like Dirty Depp and there is quick outrage. It's a rightful response but. Its an asbackward community.

I can't understand anyone who wants to call out the people who take offense to these remarks. Getting paid millions of dollars to put on nice clothes and smirk or laugh with a mouth full of yellow teeth cannot compare to getting your body violated. I won't even get too much into it but some of these comments are making me upset because some of you have absolutely no idea. Words can hurt. These people in the spotlight need to check themselves and get their asses out of their heads. Just stfu, make movies, smile for the camera if needed, stop making clueless complaints and stop supporting child rapists or rapists period.

Rant is fucking over. I hope I got some kind of point across. I'm not in my best form tonight.

Christ, this got ugly fast...

I dunno, from what I've seen, Johnny Depp is the exact opposite of "insensitive asshole". I may have been led by my nose by his PR team, but I distinctly remember reading a number of times how far out of his way he goes to be nice to his fans and people in general without making big press over it. The fact that I know that kinda deflates that last part itself, but I've certainly never heard negative things about him. Seems to me he's being unfairly labeled for no reason other than people like being outraged.

You can feel about him the way you like, but in my opinion, it's more about your beliefs and feelings about the word than his use of it.

Actually, I police my own words, and when I mess up, I apologize. Hi, nice to meet you. I work in an office that investigates discrimination, harassment, and sexual assault. I object when people say we live in a post-racial world. I object when friends send me "funny" emails that present degrading stereotypes (and most of those tend to be about how stupid men are, which is just fucking intolerable) and I have distanced myself from people who don't get why I find that unacceptable. I don't allow my kids or their friends to use words that mock the disabled, physical or mental, because I think that's cruel, and there are better words to use to express what they mean to say. So yeah, I have an objection to the word rape being used to describe a photo shoot, because I think it's really fucking insensitive. I am too aware of how many ways people hurt each other with words every single day to find it acceptable, and I don't have to give celebrities a pass just because I like some movies.

What I can't figure out is why my refusal to be okay with people staying what I consider to be stupid things should trigger such rage in other people. I keep hoping my job will lead me to greater understanding of that sort of mind, but ten years in, I'm still stumped.

Before anyone freaks out: that last paragraph should obviously say "That does not mean that anyone who has ever contributed to rape culture is in fact a rapist, or is personally responsible for the fact that rapes occur, or should be shunned."

He sure did get that cover-his-ass "apology" statement out quick.

I love how society is so willing to take use of the word rape and make it into this ridiculous crime. Yeah Johnny Depp said something stupid. He's a guy from Kentucky that speaks with a British accent. He is stupid. But don't act like you actually care about the fact that people use the word rape to describe things other than rape cause not a damn person on here would bat an eye at two kids playing a video game and one of them saying "Man, I'm killing you." Because so many people want to make a pet project out of one aspect of our society without ever giving a damn about the society as a whole. Talk about killing each other thats fine. Say something about rape? I'm writing that rape apologist off for life. Grow up.

When YOU make the act of mispeaking about rape, as large of a crime as rape, then YOU trivialize rape. A person who says "I raped this team in Halo last night", and a rape apologist, and a rapist are three very very different things. To make them one thing does nothing but to increase your own self righteous indignation. It definitely isn't doing any favors for rape victims.

I'm with idleprimate and Ghisent on this...it's an unfortunate analogy, but is it any worse than casually using "murder" "retarded," etc. Even if you say you felt like you got mugged in an exchange, a real mugging victim could tell you that it was nothing like that.

And lastly...to get all semantic - "rape" as a word can mean to violate, in a general rather than sexual sense.