web counter
 

Didn't Come with Any Satisfaction Guaranteed: Why Whedon's "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" Sucks

By Cindy Davis | Posted Under Seriously Random Lists | Comments (140)

gell.jpg

In the comments of a recent Seriously Random List of Five Shows We Refuse to Quit, I was startled to read that “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” is a series that people watch multiple times. Really? Are you kidding me? (Please?) While it’s true that Whedon has had some interesting ideas (the “Dollhouse” premise), he’s also the dude that wrote the Alien: Resurrection script—and clearly he has no idea how to cast decent actors (got lucky with “Firefly”). But let’s be honest here, “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” should never have been watched the first time, never mind repeatedly.

Here’s why…

5. Super Ugly Vampires with Ferengi-like Foreheads (who wants to look at that?):


xanderwill.jpg

This is more like what grown-ups look for in a vampire:

true-blood-eric-.jpg


4. The Show Tried to Take Itself Seriously. If your show really does resemble “Scooby Doo,” make it a comedy (on purpose). Just look at this crap … unintentional guffaws practically guaranteed.


3. Fans Knew Whedon’s Show Better Than the Man, Himself. From imdb:

“During an interview on the National Public Radio program “Fresh Air,” Joss Whedon told interviewer David Bianculli that during the first few years Buffy was on the air, he used to frequent internet message boards about the show. On one such board, there was a discussion of what the posters perceived as sexual tension between the characters Buffy and Faith. Whedon posted that he disagreed, that he thought some viewers saw “lesbian subtext behind every corner” and that they just wanted “to see girls kiss.” One poster asked Whedon to look at her website, where she had analyzed multiple Faith episodes and systematically laid out the subtext between the two slayers; after that, Whedon returned to the original posting board and apologized, saying that the original posters were absolutely correct about the lesbian subtext between Faith and Buffy.”


2. The Cast is a Veritable Who’s Who from The Joey Tribbiani School of Bad Actors.

hannig.jpg

tracten.JPG

dushie.jpg

julie-benz.jpg

smg1.jpg


1. Whedon Picked the wrong Buffy. Even SMG knew she wasn’t Buffy—she auditioned for Cordelia. Now just imagine how much better the whole mess would have been if this had been Buffy:

Summer-Glau-.jpg


SMG still needs more time in the oven. (Have you seen “Ringer?”)


Cindy Davis is patiently awaiting your insults and death threats.









Each Time You Like, Share, Tweet or Stumble a Pajiba Post, An Angel Does the Paul Rudd Dance

← Survivor: One World Cast Revealed! Can You Guess The Gay Republican? | Survivor: One World Cast Revealed! Can You Guess The Gay Republican? →









Comments

Well, good luck with this.

Posted by: Pete at January 19, 2012 3:04 PM

You love "True Blood." Therefore, your argument is invalid.

;P

Posted by: MelBivDevoe at January 19, 2012 3:06 PM

Possibly the BEST. ARTICLE. EVER. thank you, Cynthia. Let me just add an additional point, if I may:

Whose idea was it to turn the Buffy character into a raging, hypocritical cunt around the third or fourth season? That really soured the whole series for me.

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at January 19, 2012 3:07 PM

Wow, this is the trolliest article I've ever seen on here, and Dustin didn't even write it. Buffy is clearly a feat of teenybop television. And yeah, my wife and I rewatch it once every couple of years... We do that with The West Wing too. Maybe you want to point and laugh at us for being bleeding heart liberals too?

Also I laughed aloud at the idea that True Blood is somehow for grown-ups. Absolute sack of jizz.

Posted by: Zuffle at January 19, 2012 3:09 PM

i don't really see the point of this. i've seen less than 2 episodes ever, so i already knew it wasn't something i cared for.
but why *try* to alienate yourself?

you KNOW how These People are.

Posted by: gp at January 19, 2012 3:11 PM

"Cindy Davis" is probably a Rowles' sock puppet he doesn't literally (Traiger-style) burst into flames when he boots up his computer.

Don't feed the, we can smell our own, etc.

(Hey! Don't bring me into this one. I have nothing against "Buffy." Cindy, I'm afraid you're on your own with this one. Best of luck! -- DR)

Posted by: Salad_Is_Murder at January 19, 2012 3:15 PM

Fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy comment thread.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at January 19, 2012 3:18 PM

I don't even know what to say. My first reaction on seeing the title of this article was to check the calendar and see if I somehow missed it turning April 1st.

I can't even...someone else take over please while I get something to drink.

Posted by: Phedre at January 19, 2012 3:21 PM

You love "True Blood." Therefore, your argument is invalid.

Seconded.

I'll admit, though, that I'm in at least partial agreement about the quality of some of the actors on Buffy.

Posted by: Todd at January 19, 2012 3:24 PM

Eh. The most I can muster is a one-shoulder shrug and an eyeroll.

Cindy, you're the pop-culture blog version of a Jehovah's Witness. Your beliefs are silly and kind of offensive, but it's too much effort to argue with you. I'll just close the curtains and hide until you go away.

Posted by: marya at January 19, 2012 3:25 PM

So....what I hear you saying is you prefer your vampires sparkly?

Posted by: NateS1973 at January 19, 2012 3:26 PM

This is so true, and if Summer had been Buffy it would have at least of been bearable to watch.

Posted by: Dan at January 19, 2012 3:26 PM

Is this some kind of test? Are we being filmed? DO I get paid more or less if I tell you what I think of this troll-bait?

Oh, good lord. I don't even know where to begin.

Posted by: Eblis O' at January 19, 2012 3:26 PM

In the words of the Great Man* himself:"bollocks!"

*Spike.

Posted by: Tarn at January 19, 2012 3:27 PM

Seriously?
Clearly this entire article was written for the sole purpose of pissing fans off.

Posted by: Tidmore at January 19, 2012 3:28 PM

Your no. 1 point is just flat out wrong. I like River but she has never shown range, at all. She does a good crazy, a good robot, and is much better than SMG at stunt work but I've never seen her convincingly play human. SMG may not be the best actor, but her soap opera background helped sell the weightier and weepier scenes of BtVS.

Posted by: ed newman at January 19, 2012 3:28 PM

I don't know what to say. Except...what?

Posted by: sunnywithahigh at January 19, 2012 3:29 PM

True, Buffy herself is the least interesting character. Yes, after it transferred to CW it wasn't the same. Hell, if you said the entire show would be better without Xander's witless one-liners every couple of minutes, I'd back you on that.

But if you can't find merit in the way Buffy is plotted, scripted or made, you're just some sort of inhuman mongoloid with a chip on your shoulder.

Mother's milk is most certainly red today...

Posted by: Zuffle at January 19, 2012 3:29 PM

I've never seen an episode of Buffy so I really don't have a horse in this race. I will agree though that Summer Glau should have been Buffy. Because Summer Glau is just better than everyone else.

Posted by: admin at January 19, 2012 3:30 PM

BLASPEMY! You'll smoke a turd in Hell for that!

Posted by: John W at January 19, 2012 3:32 PM

After "This is more like what grown-ups look for in a vampire:" I honesty expected a picture R-Patz and then we'd all laugh, realize this was a joke article, and go about our daily business.

But this? Shit has taken a terrible turn. This is truly the darkest timeline.

Posted by: TheBoy at January 19, 2012 3:33 PM

Ok, I'm back. I also second the invalidation of your opinion by way of liking True Blood. Not that I have anything against the Skarsgaard or the other assorted hunks populating this show, they are hot I admit it. But how can you look Bill and Sookie and then at Angel and Buffy and tell me Whedon's creation is not superior?

As for the actors: I dare you to watch Willow Rosenberg cry and feel your heart breaking and your eyes welling up in sympathy!

Posted by: Phedre at January 19, 2012 3:33 PM

Clearly you're missing the entire point of "cult classic" status if you don't see that we love BtVS BECAUSE of all these things and not in spite of them. Silly, silly Cindy.

Posted by: JenVegas at January 19, 2012 3:34 PM

Well this should be interesting. Did you wake up this morning and say "I would love to just have people tear me a new one"?

I get that Buffy is not the best show. Kind of hard to get into it when it tries to hard. But it's fun and still enjoybale to watch. It's a hell of a lot better than True Blood. Cool premise, shitty execution.

Posted by: Zach at January 19, 2012 3:34 PM

This is some mighty weak sauce, Cindy Davis.

Buffy had three and a half, three and three quarters of fantastic seasons. After that things became a little uneven, with some great episodes here and there, but the show was on the general decline.

Still, in it's rather lengthy prime, the show was aboslutely fantastic. A great mix of humor, drama, action... Some fantastic moments that are well worth re-visiting.

I enjoy "True Blood". I like it quite a bit, but it's never come close to having the emotional impact that certain episodes of Buffy had.

Posted by: Forbiddendonut at January 19, 2012 3:35 PM

I cannot in good conscience condemn Cindy because I've done this exact same thing in relation to Wes Anderson, who I will forever hate and despise and remain absolutely gobsmacked every time I hear someone praise him.

So, deep breaths, everyone entitled to an opinion, etc.

Posted by: Craig at January 19, 2012 3:35 PM

Using the scene with Anya from "The Body" as a reason NOT to watch the show? I'm so confused. That's about the time in the post where I realized you MUST be joking. Right? RIGHT?!

Posted by: PerpetualIntern at January 19, 2012 3:36 PM

Wow this is this first article Ive read by you guys that Ive completed disagreed with.

Posted by: Michael at January 19, 2012 3:36 PM

Let's see the post-Buffy acting CV of Whedon's little acting troupe, shall we:

Sarah Michelle Gellar: Scooby Doo, Scooby Doo 2

Nicolas Brendon: American Dragon: Jake Long, Turbo Dates, Jenny Craig, Alcoholics Anonymous (I added the last two as should haves)

Allyson Hannigan: How I met Your Mother (is that shit ever gonna end?)

Eliza Dushku: Tru Calling, Ugly Betty, Wet, Dollhouse and Robotomy (note:all played as Eliza Dushku or butchy possible lesbian with attitude).

Each and every one a master of the craft called: ACTING! Whedon sure knows how to pick 'em.

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at January 19, 2012 3:37 PM

"Cindy, you're the pop-culture blog version of a Jehovah's Witness. Your beliefs are silly and kind of offensive, but it's too much effort to argue with you."

Marya, I wanna marry ya.

Posted by: kucheza at January 19, 2012 3:38 PM

I'm with Eblis. I feel like I'm on some sort of show and someone's going to pop up in front of my cube and be all "Gotcha!"

While I agree some of the talent on the show aren't exactly stellar, that clip of Anya from "The Body" still gets to me. Along with a hundred other moments during the show's run.

If loving Buffy is wrong, I don't wanna be right.

Posted by: calliope1975 at January 19, 2012 3:39 PM

This is a joke, right? RIGHT?!

I get and understand that everyone has their own opinions, and that Buffy doesn't appeal to everyone... but that doesn't mean it doesn't break my heart.

(And seeing Anya's speech used as a negative makes me want to go on a murderous rage kthaxbai)

Posted by: Ethan at January 19, 2012 3:40 PM

This post kind of reminds me of that other lame post several months ago about why "Game of Thrones" wasn't as a good a show as we thought or something.

At least that one tried (yet failed miserably) to raise some actual arguments (as lame and misguided as they were) instead of just making a statement and then slapping up a bunch of pictures and YouTube clips as support.


Posted by: Forbiddendonut at January 19, 2012 3:41 PM

Considering today is Buffy Summer's agreed upon birthday (the series had one date early on but has since locked it to today), and Buffy fans know that bad things always happen on Buffy's birthday I'm calling out this article to be a meta tribute to Buffy and her annual birthday suckfests.

Posted by: TylerDFC at January 19, 2012 3:41 PM

Buffy is kinda like it's so bad it's good. There are some episodes that are better than others clearly (I can think of at least 5, and NONE from the last season which sucked complete ass), but it's not to be taken as seriously as the person who wrote this trolly article about it. True Blood is taken too seriously and it takes itself too seriously, that's why I don't bother watching it. Also, it's just all super sexual and vampires can't technically have sex anyway so it doesn't hold true to the lore either (just like Buffy). I disagree that Alyson Hannigan can't act, she was one of the few that could on the show. SMG was a pretty bad Buffy, but Cordelia was pretty excellent how she was and I appreciate that. I also noticed all the female cast members were the only ones put there that couldn't act, what about the male cast members? This is why this is called a cult classic, it wasn't very well done or even written but it has a following because a lot of young people watched it and enjoyed it for the silly show that it was. Let's leave it at that for now.

Posted by: Gigi at January 19, 2012 3:41 PM

Shit, that should have read "Buffy Summers'".

Posted by: TylerDFC at January 19, 2012 3:42 PM

i shalt not dwell too lingering a time on fathoming the buffoonery behind this list. tis how anneurisms are born.

Posted by: betsy at January 19, 2012 3:42 PM

Is this some sort of early April Fools joke? Because this isn't funny and doesn't make sense.

Posted by: muertemaria at January 19, 2012 3:43 PM

Only started watching Buffy on the recommendation of this site...found it watchable enough until Buffy left high school, then it became completely unwatchable. Gotta say that the vampire thing doesn't really swing it for me though - Walking Dead was unwatchable after the pilot, True Blood is godawful (being a Kiwi I should be more loyal to Ms Paquin, but she is the worst thing about it). Meh.

Posted by: Anthony Billington at January 19, 2012 3:43 PM

To be fair BSlim, none of the Firefly cast have had particularly stunning post-Whedon careers. Doesn't mean they were poorly cast. Arguably, Whedon brings better performances out of his actors and they don't really carry that out of their shows.

Posted by: Koolickle at January 19, 2012 3:43 PM

Let's see the post-Buffy acting CV of Whedon's little acting troupe, shall we:

All the more reason why Whedon and Buffy should be praised... That show was a silk purse made largely from sow's ears.

If you can produce some quality out of the riff-raff, that's some fucking gold right there.

Posted by: Forbiddendonut at January 19, 2012 3:44 PM

Slim, could you please regale us with stunning careers of Carrie Fisher, Billy Dee Williams and Mark Hamill, as well?

What about Shatner, Nimoy and Takei?

Or even David Duchovny and Gillian Anderson?

Great cult TV shows or films are much more than the sum of their (sometimes untalented) parts.

Posted by: TheBoy at January 19, 2012 3:45 PM

I'll just be over here, clutching the Angel doll I got at FAO Schwarz in 1999, and sobbing pitifully. Don't mind me.

Posted by: Angeleno Ewok at January 19, 2012 3:46 PM

Maybe this is a cry for help? Someone is holding Cindy somewhere and forcing her to keep writing here so everyone thinks she's fine. And this troll of an article is the only way for her to let us know that something is seriously wrong?

I'm grasping at straws here people.

Posted by: Phedre at January 19, 2012 3:46 PM

Zuffle's point about True Blood being a bag of jizz is spot on. I could get into the whole idea of vampire bites and sex, but that's just too hard for my brain to process this morning. Last season was just one long soft core episode (and I don't get why people like Sookie).

As for Buffy, vamps should be ugly, they're monsters.
It got better with age, as it aged with its characters.
Yeah, another Buffy would have made it better (I never got her appeal either, especially as the underage bait for 900 year old vamps).

Posted by: Samantha at January 19, 2012 3:47 PM

I'm so confused by this entire article... but especially #4. Even re-watching those scenes now makes my heart all sad. Willow finally mourning her lost love, Anya realising the truth of mortality, Buffy breaking down over her, frankly shitty, life... I really don't get what's not to like. I respect your opinion, but it's certainly a strange one.

Posted by: Whatsyourbeef at January 19, 2012 3:49 PM

Posted by: TheBoy at January 19, 2012 3:45 PM

Nice try. I'm not going off-topic.

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at January 19, 2012 3:50 PM

Shit, sorry Samantha, I actually kinda liked the first three seasons of True Blood. But then, I like tits. Agreed, l

ast season was gash, though.

The bag of jizz thing was aimed at Cindy's geratric whore of an argument.

Posted by: Zuffle at January 19, 2012 3:51 PM

I'll admit, in the day, I was THE Buffy fan. Angel too. I had pet mice called Oz and Connor and Spike was my imaginary dream boyfriend.

But the whole mess with the last few seasons, DAWN, castrating Spike, DAWN, killing Joyce, DAWN, Giles leaving, DAWN, I mean when the classiest, coolest guy on your set says enough, YOU SAY ENOUGH.
Also Dawn.

Frankly, for me, as I've aged and look back I feel like the introduction of Dawn undid all the goodness that came before. Because she touched EVERYTHING. She fucked up JONATHAN.

I always hated Buffyspeak/Whedonspeak and always will, and these days I have a real issue with Whedon, I feel like for all the 'he writers strong females'shit, he writers a helluva lot of strong females that have to be horribly tortured and abused to earn their stripes.

So...ya know, Whedon? You creep me out and I think you're not so great at what you do professionally. I HOPE IT BURNS.
But seriously, thanks so much for Summer Glau. Thanks so, so much.

Posted by: Nadine at January 19, 2012 3:52 PM

Leaving aside everything else in the article (Troll-Fight!), you think the quality of the acting on Buffy would be improved if the main character were played by Summer Glau? Really? You'd get a more believable performance by putting Charming Potato in a wig.

Posted by: thegardenhead at January 19, 2012 3:53 PM

Here's the problem with comparing Buffy to True Blood:
1) True Blood could not have existed without the precedent of Buffy. It's a standing on the shoulders of giants kind of a thing. Just like the Battlestar Galactica reboot couldn't have been born without Ron Moore literally growing up with Star agree and becoming increasingly disenchanted with the franchise. Yeah, BSG is way better than Star Trek (in its various incarnations) but that's because Moore learned ALL the lessons from Star Trek. And I do mean this literally - Zoic is the effects house behind BOTH True Blood AND BtVS.
2) Buffy was a super low budget show on a minor, fledgling network. True Blood has the weight and force of a premium cable channel behind it and that means serious bank.
3) I'd say that whereas Whedon was limited to actors willing to take a TV role with an unknown writer (back when TV was NOT critically acceptable), Alan Ball had an Oscar and HBO and the premium content label and could cast anybody. Given that, I think actually Whedon used all of his actors extremely well, hiding their defects skillfully and shooting the narrative in an articial way that lent itself well to the soap-y skills of his actors. On the other hand True Blood has basically manage to destroy ANY good will I had for any of the performers going into the series. You're honestly telling me Anna Paquin is a good actress?? I think she's campy, drag-queeny and soapy. Pretty much on par with SMG actually. Except I love Buffy (character) and I wish someone would just go ahead and kill Sookie.

Posted by: Mei-Lu at January 19, 2012 3:54 PM

No suck. No great. Just mediocre. Bit of mediocre fun. That Billy Idol vampire was the best part.

Posted by: zeke the pig at January 19, 2012 3:57 PM

¬¬ Fala mal então faz melhor U_U
Eu curto sim True Blood mas olha a epoca que os 2 foram feitos e a Buffy é mto eu, nenhum seriado vai conseguir fazer isso como Buffy tem esse carisma todo. Ainda bem que tenho tds as temp posso ficar assistindo e nao dando importancia pra sites como esse ¬¬

Posted by: Emily at January 19, 2012 4:00 PM

I don't know if Cindy is arguing Summer would be a better actress than SMG.

I have to say, I think she would be. Glau has shown she can kill the heavy emotions and to me she's more watchable by half.

SMG is annoying as fucking shit and I have no idea why she spent the entire show speaking LIKE A BABY. That affected little voice.

Honestly, I watched Buffy for EVERYONE ELSE BESIDES BUFFY.

Which made it difficult.

But god damn she makes me want to kill her when she starts 'Oh Angew, I am Buffy, I am soooo towtuwed, I have the grumpfizzles about failing an exam and my shirt totally looks grodshiizle because Whedon thinks people talk like this. EE! Excited noises and nonsensical phrases in excited tones! You think youw tuff Vampire? Well I'm Buffy, the vampire Tougher'

Posted by: Nadine at January 19, 2012 4:00 PM

Who watched Buffy as an adult? Was there a large cult following of Buffy admirers who are now in their late mid 40s, early 50s? Is any of this relevant in 2012 when the show ended in 2003.

Posted by: lilianna28 at January 19, 2012 4:01 PM

Summer Glau is absolute poison, she would have been a terrible buffy, just like she was a terrible river. Then again other then Tudyk and baldwin firefly is pretty terrible so i cant say it matters much.

Posted by: Bingodan at January 19, 2012 4:03 PM

Well I introduced my 42 yo husband to the entire Whedon canon last year and he loved it all. So it has nothing to do with age.

It's the principle of the thing. The Whedon speak, and the fact sometimes you DO want to smack Buffy but also the fact that she makes you want to join the fight.

Posted by: Phedre at January 19, 2012 4:05 PM

Bingodan: Thems fighting words!

Posted by: Phedre at January 19, 2012 4:07 PM

I'm calling the Buffy's Birthday Ironic Supertroll Tribute angle, particularly because of the True Blood pic and any scene from The Body being used as a downside. Pick comedy or drama? Really, guys, are you taking this post seriously? The only thing I really hate about Ironic Troll posts is it allows people who don't get it and don't like the subject sincerely to voice their unwanted down opinions of something I love. We hates that.

And on the off chance it is a sincere post... It's too goddamn fallacious and ridiculous to be angry at. It's like accusing Mitt Romney of being a serial killer in an attack ad eliciting actual rage from a right wing nut. You only show your own lack of humor by getting pissed at a joke, or you look just as silly as a silly person for fighting such a silly opinion.

"An interesting game... the only winning move is not to play." --WOPR

Posted by: puppetDoug at January 19, 2012 4:10 PM

Best troll ever. I almost bit.

+1 internets

Posted by: Brave Sir Robin at January 19, 2012 4:14 PM

this is the laziest blog entry I've ever read - it reads like its written by some bitter bitter bitch who never bothered actually watching the show and got pissed every time someone referenced it - stating a idiotic point and 'backing it up' by posting a picture or a youtube clip - so fucking lazy

and the True Blood reference... dear god ....words escape me, seriously that reference devalues your whole lazy argument.

Posted by: AdamMatt at January 19, 2012 4:20 PM

I know a piss-take when I see one. All right, move along. Although, I very much agree on the casting, but not about Summer Glau. I mean, she's pretty and can kick ass prettily, but I've never seen her with anything resembling a facial expression.

Posted by: Joker at January 19, 2012 4:23 PM

I loved this show more than I will ever love a human being.

Even though I can hear the blood rushing through my ears, I must concede that I love Buffy for its successes AND failures.

5. Bumpy vampires are sexy.
4. The show had a great balance of serious drama and self-aware humor. Not perfect, but great.
3. In the truly brilliant writer's mind, the characters write themselves. The fact that Whedon didn't notice some subtext is a side-effect of all the other fantastic shit going down in his glorious noggin.
2. Alright, mostly agreed. However, 'Faith' was Dushku's best work, and Alyson Hannigan is fucking adorable.
1. This show worked and continues to resonate in spite of Sarah Michelle Gellar, which is miraculous. And Summer Glau was ACTUALLY 16 when the show started. Nobody did that in the 90's.

Posted by: ShagEaredVillain at January 19, 2012 4:27 PM

The show lost its sense of humor and good writing some time in season 4 and got unwatchable after that. Really, like someone said, it was all the retcon-ing when Dawn was introduced that fully flushed things down the toilet.

I personally love the high school years, even season one, because at least its fun.

Posted by: kelsy at January 19, 2012 4:27 PM

Oh this is trolling? Huh. Well played. I still absolutely hate SMG and Whedon still freaks me out and Dawn still ruined EVERYTHING. So I've lost nothing, YAY ME!

Posted by: Nadine at January 19, 2012 4:34 PM

As far as Alien:Resurrection goes, I think it's a good idea to be careful where you blame the quality of a movie on the writer. I will give you three reasons why:

1) Bulworth. Officially Warren Beatty wrote and conceived the movie. But it's open knowledge that Aaron Sorkin wrote most of the script.

2) Drop Dead Fred. Remember that Phoebe Cates monstrosity? The screenwriters' agent came to my school to speak after that movie came out. She was almost tearful about how much the script was changed. Apparently, it was never written as a comedy. Unfortunately, not only did the director and producer play fast and loose with the script but the people who suffered the most were the screenwriters who were blamed and have subsequently not worked since.

3) Joss Whedon invited the producer of Alien: Resurrection to the premiere of BtVS. After the screening, he asked the producer what he thought.
Producer: Well, it's just sooo weird.
Whedon: Yeah? How so?
Producer: Well, you shot it exactly the way you wrote it.
(This story is told by Whedon and to explain why he left film for television.)

Extra Credit: Kevin Spacey thanking Sam Mendes for writing American Beauty during his Oscar acceptance speech. When it's good, the director gets the credit, when it's bad, it's all on the writer.

Posted by: Mei-Lu at January 19, 2012 4:35 PM

GASP, Mei-Lu, Drop Dead Fred is so much fun, come on now!

Posted by: Nadine at January 19, 2012 4:36 PM

5) This is just unfair. Anything would be better with the presence of Alexander Skaarsgard. Hell, I'd watch him sparkle, call himself a vegetarian and say it's art.
Besides, Alex was probably in the Swedish army at the time that BtVS was being made.
And I think we can forgive the lack of a certain Viking vampire with the presence of a certain snarky British one.

4) I cried like a baby I don't know how many times throughout this show. The moments were real. Whedon took life issues that kids have to deal with and put them in his universe. The show took itself seriously, and then made a musical episode. It's a comedic gold mine. I love Joss Whedon. Always will. I'm just pretending that Dollhouse didn't happen.

3) So what? There's plenty to analyze. More power to Whedon that his world and his characters are so complex.

2) Again, so what? Whedon managed to get great performances out of shoddy actors. They made me laugh, they made me cry, they made me angry, they made me root for their battles and their relationships, they made a ridiculous universe real for me.

1) And that goes double for SMG. I think she was a great Buffy. Can't make any judgements on Summer.

And what the hell is this post anyway? Are you really trying to tell me that you've watched all 7 seasons even though you didn't like it at all? Or did you just pick a few random episodes/youtube clips out of context?

Posted by: Natalie at January 19, 2012 4:38 PM

I mostly agree with points 5 - 2, but I still love Buffy and have watched it several times. (Summer Glau as Buffy would have been un-watchable.) I don't think SMG is a great actress, but I think she, the rest of the cast, and the writers gave BtVS a grace that makes the show greater than the sum of its parts.

Posted by: Rochelle at January 19, 2012 4:43 PM

::rolls eyes:: This article has the scent of, 'Look at me, I'm so OUT THERE with my daring opinions.'

If you went to high school and weren't one of the cool kids, you get the first three seasons. Sometimes a shallow examination is worse than none at all.

Posted by: ponch at January 19, 2012 4:47 PM

Lies!

Posted by: Candee at January 19, 2012 4:47 PM

Yeah, BSG is way better than Star Trek

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Todd at January 19, 2012 4:52 PM

"An interesting game... the only winning move is not to play." --WOPR
Posted by: puppetDoug at January 19, 2012 4:10 PM

I have no dog in this fight. I'm just eating my popcorn and reading the comments. But I felt the need to stop by and thank puppetDoug for attributing this quotation to the War Operations Planning and Response computer and not to Joshua. Less than, slash, geek, greater than.

Now, please, get back to your baited bickering. This popcorn is tasty.

...crunch...
...crunch...
...crunch...
...crunch...
...crunch...

Posted by: lubeg at January 19, 2012 4:55 PM

I...

I'm gonna go.

Posted by: jM at January 19, 2012 4:57 PM

Cindy Davis, you're Fired!

Posted by: John G. at January 19, 2012 5:03 PM

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Jay at January 19, 2012 5:06 PM

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Jay at January 19, 2012 5:09 PM

Meh. Like I care what any of you think.

Posted by: Slash at January 19, 2012 5:24 PM

Oh, all this sputtering.

It's adorable.

And hilarious.

Posted by: Jay at January 19, 2012 5:34 PM

I like Buffy, but I pretty much agree with all the points. Part of being a grown up geek is knowing that your geek love for something doesn't mean it's good, and admitting that it might be bad doesn't mean you enjoy it any less. I can watch the movie 2012 at any time and honestly enjoy it, and it's big loud stupid crap. I love White Castle burgers. That doesn't make them any less poisonous.

In a less mature and reasonable vein, I have it on good authority that Cindy Davis is just bitter and angry because she loves sparkly emo vampires. Yes it's my on own authority and it's a rumor that I'm trying to start, but that doesn't make it any less true. Probably because it's completely false and thusly couldn't possibly get any less true.

This is how my brain works when I'm sober, people. Be afraid. Be very afraid.

Posted by: Harborwolf at January 19, 2012 5:36 PM

I have no opinion on this either, having never seen an episode. But I know the Buffy love around these parts, so as soon as I read the title, I was excited to see the comment section turn into a bloodbath. Just sitting back, enjoying the show, but I wanted to thank Lubeg for clearing up what WOPR stood for. I knew the quote came from War Games, but didn't know what that stood for. Thanks for clearing that up.
Pass the popcorn?

Posted by: lillie at January 19, 2012 5:37 PM

I hope it was a bet to see how many people get pissed off quickly, cause those are not even half serious arguments. And I don't mind people not liking Buffy, but you can't invent defaults.

5- Comparing vamps meant to be actual monsters to vamps meant to be sexual fantasies is non-sense. Not the same purpose at all. The "adult" argument doesn't even work when Buffy was a coming-of-age show aimed at teenagers.

4- Fans always see more interpretations in what they love than the creators intended. Been like that since the creation of painting.

3- So, a fiction with a lot of humor and a low budget shouldn't try to have depth and actual feelings?

2- Gotta love the "only female" display here... Other than that, most actors of the show were good in their specific roles. Maybe they can't play anything else, but they were quite ok there.

1- Please. That must be the final joke, since Glau has no acting ability at all. She just has a flexible body. SMG is the actress of one role, but she showed a lot of range in it. Summer Glau as a Valley Girl? Ah ah.

Posted by: Blackie at January 19, 2012 5:52 PM

FULL DISCLOSURE: I own every season of Buffy, have seen all episodes multiple times and am, quite frankly, ashamed that I have memorized almost all of it. BUT! The show is dreck. I mean...C'mon! I love it...eat it up, even, But you try to watch it in the same room with someone who is a total newcomer to the show and it is CRINGEWORTHY. You suddenly realize how cheesy it is. The effects are awful. Sarah Michelle Gellar is dreadful, bitchy and useless.

BUT-to get to the point-HOW DARE YOU TALK BAD ABOUT ALYSON HANNIGAN?! She is wonderful. As is Anthony Stewart Head and James Marsters, who I felt (and I don't think that my blinding love is actually blinding me here) was able to acquit himself with a some dignity and deliver some of the lame one-liners with a bit of believability. Certainly better than the Oscar Winners did in the Star Wars prequels...

Posted by: SanityFair at January 19, 2012 5:54 PM

Yeah, after I read the opening paragraph everything else was just a neon blinking troll sign.

Posted by: frellhole at January 19, 2012 5:57 PM

@lillie &/or any other interested parties:

I went and popped some more FRESH, not movie theater stylee, popcorn because I'm going to have a long night at the office and this is going to be SUCH A FUN THREAD when the evening commenters get home and see it.

Anyway, what I'm saying is, I've got:
1. Just plain ole lightly salted
2. Kettle korn (guilty pleasure)
3. Lightly buttered (I hate the mess on my fingers, but lots of folks like it and I like to share; this is NOT Paula Deen popcorn, mind)
4. Lemon pepper (never known anyone else who liked it, but I do, try some if you so desire)
5. A bottle of Tabasco (I don't get it, but I know lots of folks who put it on their popcorn, help yourself)

There's also water, soda and beer in the mini-fridge and I have a gallon of gas in the corner in case we need to throw it on this fire :D

Posted by: lubeg at January 19, 2012 6:07 PM

My only regret from the show is that Buffy and Cordelia never got it on. That also may be the main reason i watched every episode. So watching it twice is kinda stupid.

Posted by: logan at January 19, 2012 6:11 PM

Next up on Pajiba:

'The Big Lebowski - the overrated dude can kiss my ass'
'Veronica Mars - Cancelled in the nick of time, a TEENAGE detective? Whatevs'
'misunderstood villains - those Dalmations had it coming'

Posted by: Cadence at January 19, 2012 6:12 PM

I hereby proclaim this article winner of the 2012 "Joan Wilder Lifetime Achievement Award". This handsome trophy bears the inscription:

"For waking up one day and thinking 'Today, I'm going to ruin someone's life.'"

Place it proudly on your mantle, Ms. Davis, you've earned it!

Posted by: Jack T. Colton at January 19, 2012 6:18 PM

@Cadence
How about "Community....What a Worthless piece of drivel"
That should ignite some flames.
@Ludeg
I completely forgot about the evening commenters. I foresee an angry mob with pitchforks ablazing.
I like Tabasco on my popcorn and pretty much everything. I'm from Texas, that's how we do.

Posted by: lillie at January 19, 2012 6:19 PM

I've got some flame retardant hazmat suits. Maybe we should put those on?

Errrr... I'm from Texas, too... But I'd never seen that Tabasco/popcorn thing until I started working with a bunch of Tulsa transplants down here.

Posted by: lubeg at January 19, 2012 6:24 PM

Ok, so it's probably not a Texas thing and more of a personal preference. But the fact that you just informed me it's also a Tulsa thing is making me rethink my taste. :)

Posted by: lillie at January 19, 2012 6:40 PM

This post kind of reminds me of that other lame post several months ago about why "Game of Thrones" wasn't as a good a show as we thought or something.

At least that one tried (yet failed miserably) to raise some actual arguments (as lame and misguided as they were) instead of just making a statement and then slapping up a bunch of pictures and YouTube clips as support. Posted by: Forbiddendonut at January 19, 2012 3:41 PM
____________________

I thought I'd repeat that comment in case you miss it, Cindy.

Actually, I'm gonna repeat it once more, the important part:
"instead of just making a statement and then slapping up a bunch of pictures and YouTube clips as support"

It's fucking disrespectful, that's what it is, or simply trolling.
Either way I'm not amused.

Posted by: The Dude. at January 19, 2012 6:51 PM

I mean, will you people generally just stop WRITING at some point?
I'm talking to you, Pajiba

Posted by: The Dude. at January 19, 2012 6:53 PM

I suppose if I only looked at the surface of this show, I wouldn't get it either.

This was a show with a very low budget. Of course the special effects looked bad. Of course the cast was B-list. You don't have to like it, but giving the entire series a bad review because it doesn't look pretty reads like a piece out of English 101, and I've seen you do better.

Posted by: bev rage at January 19, 2012 7:05 PM

@lillie
They also pour peanuts into their Dr. Pepper.

Posted by: lubeg at January 19, 2012 7:07 PM

@lubeg
Ew. They're awfully close to Lubbock though, where I hear they fry their Dr. Pepper. Not kidding either.

Posted by: lillie at January 19, 2012 7:15 PM

"Now let's not be thilly!"

Posted by: lubeg at January 19, 2012 7:28 PM

I've tried, on more than one occasion, to sit thru an episode of BUFFY. All I can say is that it just didn't take.

Posted by: E Lee at January 19, 2012 7:30 PM

Man this article is really going through the motions.


I'm going to be all about the obvious references today. *tips hat*

Posted by: googergieger at January 19, 2012 7:31 PM

Dude, maybe the acting isn't great, but they definitely did not take themselves too seriously! The whole point of the show was campy fun. Okay, I only watched Seasons 1-3 and part of 4 on its first run, and I *was* in high school then, but I'm rewatching on Netflix streaming as an adult now and it's still great. And I love "True Blood". These things are not mutually exclusive...

Posted by: Ariel at January 19, 2012 7:37 PM

Hahahahaaa hahhaahaa ow awesome.

I can't honestly say the show sucks because I never made it all the way through one, but it's always seemed to be basically a segue from tween girl dramas like Degrasse or some Disney pab to late teen/twentysomething fantasy drama geek show. Show tunes? Romeo and Juliet vampire love? Now please try and tell me Xena was fantastic.

Posted by: Protoguy at January 19, 2012 7:39 PM

And I love "True Blood". These things are not mutually exclusive...

Correct. True Blood sucks on its own merits.

Posted by: Protoguy at January 19, 2012 7:42 PM

You are going to complain about the acting on Buffy and not even mention the guy who played Xander? Really? I think that shows your dislike of those actresses over your ability to discern acting ability.

Posted by: ERM at January 19, 2012 7:49 PM

Bitches be jealous of other bitches.

Posted by: googergieger at January 19, 2012 7:55 PM

Good gods, people! I know it's fun to let your inner fanboy or girl out, but come on: Admit it. Buffy is pure and utter shite. (Except Hush, which I caught on pure luck long after giving up on the show and that creeped me the fuck out.)

You can like the show and nobody will care. But saying it is a good show is just lying to yourself.

Posted by: FabMax at January 19, 2012 8:06 PM

Whoa there! Everybody needs to have a nice cup of chill-the-fuck-out. So she doesn't like a show you like, and decided to have some fun with it. She didn't kill your puppy.

Posted by: Joker at January 19, 2012 8:43 PM

It's fucking disrespectful

OH and I'm laughing again.

Posted by: Jay at January 19, 2012 8:50 PM

Posted by: TL at January 19, 2012 8:54 PM

Thanks for validating my existing opinions re: your lack of taste!

Posted by: trippdup at January 19, 2012 8:59 PM

i pretty much agree with everyone that thinks this is a a troll post and b that anyone who doesnt like buffy really would have a hard time breaking in a friendship with me. Buffy killed me when it first aired and had one of the best lesbian relationships on tv. Willow and Tara are two of the best lesbians ever and had one of the best relationship straight or gay ever on tv. So Cindy i am sorry but i probably wont be reading your articles ever again.

Posted by: Alyson at January 19, 2012 9:09 PM

Oh my goodness! This article is ridiculous! Why are you reviewing a show that ended in 2003? Did you just want to write an article that would make a bunch of Buffy fans angry? Your article is not going to change any fan's opinion of the show. Did you really think Buffy fans would read this article and say to themselves, “Oh wow, after loving the show for 9 years after it ended, I never realized how bad the acting was?”

Posted by: Arie at January 19, 2012 9:23 PM

I call TROLL IN THE DUNGEON!

But I have loved reading the comments and remembering why I loved that show so much when it was on. I might have to pull out the DVD's tonight for a re-watch.

Also in case it gets missed, this piece of brilliance from Cadence

Next up on Pajiba:

'The Big Lebowski - the overrated dude can kiss my ass'
'Veronica Mars - Cancelled in the nick of time, a TEENAGE detective? Whatevs'
'misunderstood villains - those Dalmations had it coming'

Hee! Those darn doggies!

Posted by: noo at January 19, 2012 10:07 PM

BAHAHAHAHA!

The rage of Whedonites is like crack to me. Hee.

Posted by: figgy at January 19, 2012 10:15 PM

I don't know what the po int of this was, to rile up the Whedon fans on this website, or to just laugh at those who laugh at the Whedon fans.

Everybody happy/upset?

Posted by: Jeremy at January 19, 2012 10:41 PM

Iss funny cuz it's true.

Posted by: Protoguy at January 19, 2012 10:55 PM

Why are you reviewing a show that ended in 2003?

Do you know any Buffy fans who've ever shut up about it?

Posted by: Jay at January 19, 2012 11:12 PM

You trying tp imply that True Blood is better than Buffy makes me want to punch every living thing I see.
the rage is never ending
ive never hated a post more.

Posted by: frellac at January 19, 2012 11:21 PM

I hardly ever talk about it. In fact, I'm hardly ever talking about it right now.

Posted by: googergieger at January 19, 2012 11:22 PM

I can't wait for the "Why Two and a Half Men is the best show on tv" post. Followed by the "Why the Twilight saga is the best movie saga of all time" post.

Posted by: Dave at January 19, 2012 11:28 PM

It doesn't particularly bother me that someone I don't know doesn't like this show, but I dare anyone out there to watch the first ten minutes of The Body and tell me this show was bad because it tried to take itself seriously. Seriously, I dare you.

Posted by: Artemis at January 19, 2012 11:47 PM

So I now know never to read an article written by you again. Thanks for that. It's kind of hard to take you seriously when you call True Blood "vampires for grown-ups." I don't know that I've ever rolled my eyes as hard.

Posted by: JD Scrubs at January 20, 2012 3:04 AM

I can't be bothered to read the whole article, but I can tell that it's a load of bull just by looking at your first point. XD

Posted by: Abby at January 20, 2012 5:31 AM

Comments (122)

Wow. Mission accomplished, Cindy.

Posted by: Uriah Creep at January 20, 2012 5:49 AM

ROTFLMAO. Come on. Do you people take yourselves that seriously? She disagrees with you about the almighty greatness of the show. Admit it, it sucked. Can't wait for the Fanboy suck-up list of why it was so great. Then you can revel in the wonderment of the show and provide your adulation to the author of that article.

Posted by: Kish Mir Tuchas at January 20, 2012 6:50 AM

As if I needed another reason to think Cindy is the weakest member of the Pajiba staff. It's not just that I disagree about Buffy, it's that the argument isn't even well-made, nor even remotely witty or amusing, and was obviously meant to rattle the cage.

Also, Cindy, your constant pathetic salivating over Alexander Skarsgard has officially ruined Eric for me.

Posted by: Thijs at January 20, 2012 8:34 AM

Wow. This article is basically a big sign saying "KILL ME WITH PICK-AXES, INTERNET!"

That said, I agree Buffy has a heap of problems and is curiously overrated by its, shall we say, over-invested core fanbase.

These just aren't exact the problems I would level at it. Sarah Michelle Gellar can't act? Sod off. She's brilliant in this. Ditto Hannigan. They're very, deliberately funny, and poignant a lot of the time.

Now, if you want to talk about totally overusing thin characters (Spike had far too much to do), or flogging bad ideas to death (everything that happens in Season Seven), I'll be listening.

Posted by: Grafty at January 20, 2012 8:38 AM

Oh, and Summer Glau is a TERRIBLE actor. She's probably not the worst thing in the Sarah Connor Chronicles (that'd be Lena Headley), but she's bewilderingly dull in her role. (And yes, she's playing a robot. Well, robots can be interesting.) She's basically the dullest version of Joss Whedon's "ass-kicking grrrrl" archetype. (And what a shock, she played the same thing in Firefly.)

Charisma Carpenter, for what it's worth, is fucking brilliant as Cordelia too. She's hilarious, and gradually reveals all sorts of sad nuance in the character (particularly when she moves to Angel). So I'm glad Summer didn't get that one either.

Posted by: Grafty at January 20, 2012 8:41 AM

Preach Thijs, preach! ;)

Posted by: Jolien at January 20, 2012 8:45 AM

Why is this post at the bottom of the homepage suddenly? Did you realize the error of your ways and try to hide your shame Cindy?

Or did the Overlords decide to hide it?

Posted by: Phedre at January 20, 2012 9:34 AM

What did you do! NO! Why?
Now I have to stop taking anything you write here seriously. And also have to stop reading your stuff for a while. The whole thing you wrote up there.....bull#$%^.

After some consideration I realise that I'm going to have to pretend that you didn't write this crap and move on. But this is the last time! Seriously! And just to make sure that we keep being cool - don't tell us what you thing of the West Wing. Thanks.

True Blood - seriously?

Posted by: Malexa at January 20, 2012 10:15 AM

Cindy, if I didn't want to make out with you before, I do now.

I hate this show with the white-hot passion of a thousand fiery infernal pits of despair.

I am BAFFLED how anyone can make it through a single episode of this disaster of epic proportions. And please, Whedonites, don't give me that "You just didn't give it a chance!!" It was on EVERY DAY in the house I shared in college. I couldn't escape this fetid mass of tumourous nonsense if I tried.

I have seen into the heart of mediocrity. Its name is "BUFFY."

Also, True Blood is delightful. Haters gonna hate.

Posted by: Tammy at January 20, 2012 1:54 PM

After 24 hours of contemplation, I have decided, after five years or so of faithful servitude, to put Pajiba, my favourite website, on final notice. I'm tired of this attention-grabbing SOE shit, and I won't be reading anything in the future that bears Cindy Davis's name. It's a waste of my time, and energy, and I don't come here to be told the things I enjoy - which up until whenever were also the things espoused by this site - are shit.

One more and I'm gone. No more Godtopus T-shirt, no more recommending it to friends for its phenomenol reviews. Fuck it. I come here to escape internet tit-for-tat bullshit, not be a part of it. Also, fuck you.

Posted by: Zuffle at January 20, 2012 2:09 PM

How dare you, Cindy?! How dare you? That is all.

Posted by: Princess Di at January 20, 2012 3:25 PM

Its funny you say that Joss "got lucky" with the cast of Firefly, considering how many of them were in multiple other Whedon projects.

I'm hesitant to comment further, because a part of me is sure I'm being punk'd, in which case the more I react the more I'll seem like a schmuck.

...because you don't seriously believe that a show needs aesthetically pleasing, sexy sexy villains to be any good. You can't honestly tell me you like your comedies straight up, without an ounce of seriousness or sadness. You won't really expect me to see Joss as anything less than humble for conceding to his fans' interpretations of his work. And there is absolutely no way you can possibly, with a straight face, lump Allyson Hannigan in with the likes of Michelle Trachtenberg and Julie Benz.

(I do, however, think you're sincere in your feelings for Summer Glau.)

No, I won't react, because any minute now a troll is going to pop out of the screen, slap me in the face, and say "That's for taking this article seriously, haha,"

That being said, to each his own. After all, some people juggle geese.

Posted by: Ace at January 21, 2012 5:56 PM

FUCK THE VAMPIRE SCENE ALREADY. LET'S TALK ABOUT WEREWOLVES.

Posted by: duckandcover at January 21, 2012 6:19 PM

You complain about Sarah Michelle's (Who I don't think is great but she's not terrible) acting and then choose an even more horrible actress? A rock could out act Summer Glau. She's either a robot or an alien...or an alien or a robot. She's got no depth, personality, or the most important thing in the business; TALENT. Summer Glau is an insult to acting. She's just as bad as Eliza if not worse.

I agree with some of the actors you bitched about; but I also think that some of the actors you bitched about brought something to the roles they played in. I agree with Eliza; she's 'FAITH' in everything she does.

I don't care that you don't like the show. I just find some of the reason you don't like the show pretty ridiculous. Like Becuase Joss wrote a shitty movie or because they actually look like demons; and don't look like pasty white vampires with obvious fake teeth. For the record the vampires on Buffy didn't always look like that...which was an interesting aspect; they had a 'human face' and then morphed into what they were; demons.


Posted by: IMadeAComment at January 22, 2012 3:14 AM

to the person who insulted The Walking Dead - that show is about zombies not vampires and there is a bit of a difference between the two. Might want to remember that for next time :)

Posted by: Aimee Firth at January 23, 2012 11:08 PM

Trolling for traffic. Brilliant move, sir...

Posted by: RemyCarreiro at January 24, 2012 6:01 PM

Yeah,
as a Buffy-Fan, I always thought, that the Klingon foreheads of their vampires looked shite.
Has to do with their aimed audience. They didn't want to show teenagers, that killed eachother, so vampires had to look different. Also they didn't have tons of money for the production and special effects at first.
I like TRUE BLOOD lots espcially for its more adult aproach, still it is true, that TRUE BLOOD is heavily influenced by Buffy. Just look at the love triangel. Actually I sometimes get annoyed by Bill's handsome love stare.
If I think about bad Buffy actors, little contantly overacting Ms Trachenberg comes to mind. But she was like 13. Maybe she's better now. Nicky an Alyson ain't bad for sure aswell as SMG isn't.
One of the best of course was Anthony Head. Yeah, you didn't even mention him. And Julie Benz, have you seen her on Dexter? She's amazing and I want to bang her lots! XD

Also where is the problem with ALIEN: RESSURECTION? I think its one of the best Alien movies and it has Winona in it. I want to bang her lots aswell.

I won't go on on why Buffy is still THE best show of alltime cause who gets it just gets it. The rest can watch Vampire Diarrhea, muahahaha.

Posted by: Shalalla at January 30, 2012 3:56 AM

Don't want no scrubsssss

Posted by: John Tauras at February 28, 2012 12:34 AM