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9 Huge Plot Holes in The Dark Knight Rises That Totally Don’t Work

By Daniel Carlson | Seriously Random Lists | July 24, 2012 | Comments ()


the-dark-knight-rises-plot-holes 2.jpg

It should go without saying that there are spoilers below, but then, if you were crazy enough to actually sit through this movie, you know what I'm about to say.

1. Toward the start of the movie, we meet a character named Miranda Tate, played by Marion Cotillard. But this is the first time we've even seen her! She wasn't in the first two movies. Are we supposed to just assume she showed up one day in Gotham City?! Not likely.

2. At one point, Bruce Wayne is seen wearing a light-colored dress shirt, kind of white with stripes. But then at another point, he's in a black T-shirt. Don't believe me? See for yourself:

dress-shirt.jpg

the-dark-knight-rises.JPG

It's frustrating that a filmmaker at Christopher Nolan's level would let something like that slide. Nice attention to detail, fellas.

3. Who are Bane's parents?! This guy's some huge roided-out killer who came from some prison or something, but we don't know anything about his childhood, his teen years, anything. Plus what's under his mask? What does it do? How are we supposed to identify with him if he's some blank slate? Ugh. Boring.

4. Speaking of that: Selina Kyle's a jewel thief because why again? Last I checked she stole stuff just because the script needed her to steal stuff. That's just some lazy bullshit right there.

5. Gotham has its own football team?! AND a stadium?! Totally random. They're just dropped into the plot for no reason.

6. Where does Alfred go? He just freaking leaves Bruce for a while and does ... what exactly? Is he traveling the countryside? And then he just shows back up later, unannounced, and then he even gets to be in the final scene. Horrible structure.

7. When Batman and Bane are punching each other, I'm pretty sure they aren't really hitting each other. I think it's because Christian Bale and Tom Hardy aren't supposed to hit each other in real life, which is probably for some dumb reason like safety or insurance, but it just makes the movie like weak and fake.

8. There's no way Batman could actually fly. Duh.

9. And seriously: How come no one mentions the Joker? HELLO! He was the whole point of the last movie! I don't know. The more I think about it, it's like they weren't even trying.

FINAL GRADE: F-


Haha, zing, etc. I've had my sarcastic fun at the expense of recent link-bait lists like this and others. When those posts were making the rounds Monday -- a whopping 72 hours after The Dark Knight Rises opened -- I was so confused and irritated by their spread that I tweeted this:

I spent most of yesterday and last night trying to figure out what prompted this lists (aside, again, from their general clickability; we've all gotta eat). I've only managed to come up with a few ideas, and if you'll forgive me one final list, I'll try to break them down.

1. Some people were destined to be let down, and they're upset. Christopher Nolan's first two Batman movies are among the best superhero movies ever made, if not the very best, and as much as people liked Batman Begins, we were positively blown away by The Dark Knight. It doesn't matter that The Dark Knight has its own share of plot holes or gaps (I keep coming back to the scene where the Joker crashes Bruce Wayne's fundraiser, tosses Rachel out the window, then just gets away sight unseen as we cut to the next day). The Dark Knight has been echoing in our collective movie-going subconscious for four years, and the approach of The Dark Knight Rises was greeted with a fervor not even a mass murder could diminish. People wanted this movie to be more than real. They wanted it to become the perfect movie they'd invented, and when it inevitably wasn't, they rebelled and began to deconstruct or destroy it. I really enjoyed the movie, though in praising it I didn't call it perfect. I was also willing to see that Nolan wanted to talk about different things this time around. He had different goals, and I think 16-point lists about the imagined failures of a very good movie, issued mere hours after the film's release, misses the point.

2. People want to win, whatever that might mean. The very smart Corey Atad hit the mark when he tweeted Monday that some viewers "assume Nolan tries to outsmart the audience with puzzles, so they then try to prove they're smarter than his films." There's an air of pissy defiance in these pieces that hasn't shown up for other blockbusters. Even The Avengers, the third-biggest movie in history, didn't inspire such bitter and immediate post-mortems. The only gripe I could really find about The Avengers came from Indiewire's The Playlist a few days after that movie opened. Everyone else seems to have put whatever reservations they might have had about the movie into reviews, not beat-by-beat analyses of every moment they felt was impossible to ignore. Nolan's Batman movies occupy huge places in our pop culture psyche, and that seems to be enough to make some people want to attack them. He structures his films as games, and that makes some people feel like they have to compete against him instead of enjoying the show.

3. We're victims of a machine we helped build. A lot of people have been excited about The Dark Knight Rises since the credits first rolled on The Dark Knight. Before the film had a title, story, or start date, it was the focus of intense fan and industry speculation that are increasingly normal for movies based on comic books. We -- readers, writers, critics, bloggers, fans, everyone -- turned The Dark Knight Rises into pure product, notable not for its content but only for its method and date of delivery. We've waited for this movie for four years, we've had it in our hands for three days, and we're dedicated to pulling the meat from its bones in a manner totally different from the way we treat almost every other movie. It's as if we don't want to go to the movies as much as we want to check some experience off a list.

When he was writing about this year's Comic-Con for Slate, Seth Stevenson said:

In the William Gibson novel Pattern Recognition, the protagonist develops a physical illness spurred by the sight of the Michelin Man--a sort of allergy to the semiotics of commerce. By the end of the weekend, I was experiencing mild nausea at the sight of Batman costumes and Big Bang Theory T-shirts and fall-TV trailers. At people lugging around gargantuan bags of worthless freebies. At tie-in toys.

There are lovely little gatherings here of people who yearn to emotionally connect over their favorite manga books and machinima and online cartoons. But there is also a sickness at Comic-Con. A pop culture pathology. I grew increasingly disgusted at the thought of all these people paying for the privilege of being spoon-fed gobs of entertainment gruel. Lapping it up. If you camp out overnight, we might show you a couple clips from The Expendables 2! Frankenweenie! Fringe! The Cleveland Show! Resident Evil: Retribution! Do you have a question for our panel? What was it like to work with Dolph Lundgren? Will the CG dragons be bigger this season? When is your character getting a love interest? Do you find the period costumes help you get into the proper mind frame on set?

Maybe I was being unfair. Perhaps I just hated the aesthetics of an event where Kevin Smith is the prom king, in his doofusy XXL hockey shirts and calf-length jorts. Where 80 percent of the framed art for sale on the convention show floor involves cyborgs, barbarians, zombies, or juggsy ladies in tattered bikinis.

I can't help but feel that these cringe-worthy listicles about The Dark Knight Rises are indicative of something bigger and way more worrisome than we've even figured out yet. It's not wrong to dislike a popular movie, or to mount an argument against it. It's always good to examine the art and your relationship to it, even if it means coming down against something everyone else seems to be praising. But lists like these -- that are light on analysis and heavy on petty gripes, that mistake complaint for criticism, and that ultimately have no greater motivation than pageviews -- are the wrong way to do it. They turn us into consumers when we should be viewers. We don't even see the movie any more; we just see ourselves going to it.

The Dark Knight Rises isn't going to disappear when The Bourne Legacy comes out. It wasn't created simply for us to have something to fuck with while waiting for whatever's next. There's way more to movies than just a 72-hour knee-jerk reaction period, and the sooner we try to move on from that, the better.

Daniel Carlson is the managing editor of Pajiba and a member of the Houston Film Critics Society and the Online Film Critics Society. You can also find him on Twitter.




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Comments Are Welcome, Bigots and Trolls Are Not


  • DG

    I seriously could not have said it better myself. But remember this, no matter how right your article is, people will still come up with the dumbest rebuttals...and all these rebuttals will do is prove your article more correct, and yet, they still won't see it. lol good read tho my brotha, keep on outsmarting/thinking these fools.

  • SGist96

    They said they weren't mentioning the Joker out of respect for Heath Ledger, but I see some of your points but most of them I can't say I agree with. Bane's storyline, for example, I don't think would've been a great idea, maybe some form of origin (supposedly there's a deleted scene with it) but they can't show too much otherwise we're watching a similar film to batman begins again, but with a character who won't be sticking around so long.

  • Rick

    I saw it before seeing Begins or Dark Knight, it is just a bad movie. Since then I have seen both prequels and think they are awesome. It is hard to believe they were made by the same people.

  • samuraiasshole

    There actually WERE plot holes in this film, but you've failed to mention any legitimate flaws. Terrible movie review.

  • Ron who liked the movie.

    None of these are actual plot holes.
    1. People leave/join the board of directors of corporations; it happens. There was an 8 year gap between TDK and TDKR, so it doesn't seem strange at all that there was a new member of the board for Wayne Enterprises.

    2. From the picture you provided, this is clearly 2 different scenes. He is at a party in one, and in the batcave in the other. How is this a plot hole? Is Nolan supposed to include a scene where Bruce Wayne changes out of his suit and into a t-shirt between the party scene and the batcave scene?

    3. Who cares who Bane's parents are? It's irrelevant to the story. Nolan never revealed the Joker's parents, or the Scarecrow's parents, etc. Really strange complaint.

    4. I think the movie was actually very clear about this. She has an extensive criminal record and therefore cannot make money in any other way. The whole point of her story arc was that she was trying to clear her record so she could start a new, theft-free life. Are you sure you've seen the movie?

    5. I think this might be the most bizarre complaint that you make. Gotham is a major metropolitan area, why wouldn't it have a football team? It was never a plot point in the previous films.

    6. If I remember correctly, he leaves Bruce and only comes back for the funeral. Who cares what he was doing when he left; it's not relevant to the plot. The filmmaker cannot follow every character for every moment of their lives. The final scene where Alfred sees Bruce refers to an earlier scene in the film, and thus concludes Bruce and Alfred's story arc.

    7. Ok, I take back my previous statement; this must be the most bizarre complaint that you make. Of course they're not actually punching each other! Do you think that actors are actually punching each other in other action movies? I suddenly suspect that I am chiding a 10 year old. Sorry to burst your bubble kid.

    8. Wow, you keep making me eat my own words. None of your complaints are the "most bizarre"; they're all about equally insane. I don't think I'll say anything else about this one.

    9. Nolan specifically said that he was leaving the Joker out of the film out of deference to Heath Ledger. This is the only complaint you list that is actually close to being something that might resemble a plot hole.

    Really weird list.

  • Sharky

    Another thing that annoyed me was how Bruce Wayne managed to build himself up to a point that he could beat Bane whilst stuck in the hell hole. It takes huge amounts of protein and other nutrients to put on muscle like that, a few push ups over a couple of months won't make any different without substance to build the muscle with. I can't imagine they had much food down there, or any means of catching their own.

  • lucem13

    just gonna comment on two things. First off number two isn't even a plot hole. Think about it it's called a "plot" hole. His outfit has nothing to do with the plot of the movie. Second, we knew even less about the Joker in the second movie and that's one of the things that made his character great. I'm sure you weren't bitching then.

  • Nile09

    Wow. This article is entirely stupid and useless. Every single one of your plot holes have a valid explanation that one is assumed to understand, but I suppose a movie like this is not meant for brains of all caliber...
    1. Where is Miranda Tate? Really? Are you blind? Do you not see, or, for that matter hear, that there are MILLIONS of people in Gotham, and they can hardly all be explained and showed. Ms. Tate must have been one of them.
    2. His shirt changing? I don't know about you, but some people wear undershirts under nice button downs... couldn't that be it.
    Also, perhaps he CHANGED in the time we didn't see him?
    3. Why on EARTH do you need to know Bane's parents?? Does it really add or detract from the movie? We didn't know the Joker's parents, or Ra's Al Gur, and it has never mattered.
    4. Selina Kyle is a jewel thief because she was poor and needed a way to make money. They explained all of that... perhaps you were asleep for that part of the movie. It certainly would explain some of your other "plot holes".
    5. Not even a plot hole...
    6. Alfred could be anywhere in the city, could he not? He just disappears from Batman's life... he didn't say he was going into witness protection or anything...
    7. Not a plot hole either.. just you shitting on the directing, and the punches looked perfectly realistic to everyone but you.
    8. He never flew... just used The Bat... and since when were SUPERHERO movies supposed to be entirely realistic?
    9. The joker was put into jail in the Dark Knight. Besides, he couldn't come back because Heath Ledger passed away.

    So that's my long winded response to your BS article. Plus, there were no real plot holes, like how Batman made it from the prison in Afghanistan to Gotham. Know your facts, fool.

  • Dwight

    Are you fucking retarded? Seriously? The joker was the whole point OF THE LAST MOVIE. You said it yourself. None of these are plotholes. Did you even WATCH IT?

  • Santiago Belandres

    I laughed.

  • Well first of all, its a film based on a billionaire who dresses up as a bat and fights crime, not real life, a film.
    Secondly if you were smart enough and not so narrow minded you may actually understand it. So here is my 9 reasons why your review and 'plot hole nonsense is crap'
    '1. Toward the start of the movie, we meet a character named Miranda Tate, played by Marion Cotillard. But this is the first time we’ve even seen her! She wasn’t in the first two movies. Are we supposed to just assume she showed up one day in Gotham City?! Not likely.':
    -No, we are meant to assume that she came to Gotham after the death of her father, its also an idea that she may have left the league of shadows when bane was cast out hence her saying she could not forgive her father before batman killed him. She was not an integral and necessary part to the first two films at all she is hinted at showing up after the batman hung up his cowl after the death of Harvey Dent. This is where they discuss the investment that Bruce Wayne made that did not work.-
    2. 'At one point, Bruce Wayne is seen wearing a light-colored dress shirt, kind of white with stripes. But then at another point, he’s in a black T-shirt.:
    -WOH
    -Nolan has tried to make these films as realistic as possible for you, the least you can do is consider that batman also has the ability to change the clothes he wears... :S-
    3. 'Who are Bane’s parents?! This guy’s some huge roided-out killer who came from some prison or something, but we don’t know anything about his childhood, his teen years, anything. Plus what’s under his mask? What does it do? How are we supposed to identify with him if he’s some blank slate? Ugh. Boring.':
    -If you wanted to know just ask or look for yourself, Bane was also born in the prison, he was in there because of his fathers prison sentence which required him to serve past his own life time... the sentence was then passed on to his son bane who grew up in the prison. Bane's parents also have no relevance to this story. His mask reduces the pain caused by the caving in of his face after helping Talia escape.-
    4. 'Speaking of that: Selina Kyle’s a jewel thief because why again? Last I checked she stole stuff just because the script needed her to steal stuff. That’s just some lazy bullshit right there.':
    -She steals stuff to stay alive 'girls gotta eat' she also explains her moral compass to her friend after Bane's take over of Gotham... she stole the jewels from the safe to get Waynes prints in exchange for 'the clean slate' the pearls are meant to make wayne think thats what she was after.-
    5.' Gotham has its own football team?! AND a stadium?! Totally random. They’re just dropped into the plot for no reason.':
    -Do I have to pick at this ? Really? Gotham's a modern US city yes they have a football team. So what, the point was to gather the worlds and gothams eyes on Banes demands... how many people watch football ?-
    6. 'Where does Alfred go? He just freaking leaves Bruce for a while and does … what exactly? Is he traveling the countryside? And then he just shows back up later, unannounced, and then he even gets to be in the final scene. Horrible structure.':
    -Hardly a horrible structure, DID YOU NOT GET THAT ALFRED LEFT BECAUSE HE DIDN'T WANT TO SEE BRUCE KILL HIMSELF? Its understandable that he would leave gotham before the events of banes take over and be refused entry back in... i donno why.. maybe because of the atom bomb being detonated if he was to try and return-
    7. 'When Batman and Bane are punching each other, I’m pretty sure they aren’t really hitting each other. I think it’s because Christian Bale and Tom Hardy aren’t supposed to hit each other in real life, which is probably for some dumb reason like safety or insurance, but it just makes the movie like weak and fake.'

    -Sorry did you watch the same film I did? the first fight seen was brutal ? Bane broke Batman's mask by punching him in the face repeatedly and yes there was contact because both actors was injured during the filming of the fight scenes. READ UP ON IT :)-
    8.' There’s no way Batman could actually fly. Duh.'
    -Well theres a huge plot hole right there! forget about the man who turns green and grows 3 times his size when made angry. Or the God exiled to earth with a magical hammer. Batman glides for starters he does not fly. If you choose to listen to someone who writes their physics degree on batman its obvious he takes BATMAN a bit literal and serious. -
    9. 'And seriously: How come no one mentions the Joker? HELLO! He was the whole point of the last movie! I don’t know. The more I think about it, it’s like they weren’t even trying':
    Its my understanding that the portrayal of the Joker by heath ledger is undoubtedly amazing. To quote him in this film would be wrong to do. Ledger had already made his impact on the batman Trilogy there was no need to try and squeeze more out of the memory we have of heath ledger's Joker.

    Listen I would love to hear back from you guys about this response. The Dark Knight Rises is not as good a film as The Dark Knight. That was expected and accepted. And for many people it was a let down. I myself loved the film for what it is. And that is the story of Bruce Wayne. I agree there are parts in the film that don't work. But the list above is complete shit and I'm happy to put it down until you come up with some valid plot holes.

  • Well first of all, its a film based on a billionaire who dresses up as a bat and fights crime, not real life, a film.
    Secondly if you were smart enough and not so narrow minded you may actually understand it. So here is my 9 reasons why your review and 'plot hole nonsense is crap'
    '1. Toward the start of the movie, we meet a character named Miranda Tate, played by Marion Cotillard. But this is the first time we’ve even seen her! She wasn’t in the first two movies. Are we supposed to just assume she showed up one day in Gotham City?! Not likely.':
    -No, we are meant to assume that she came to Gotham after the death of her father, its also an idea that she may have left the league of shadows when bane was cast out hence her saying she could not forgive her father before batman killed him. She was not an integral and necessary part to the first two films at all she is hinted at showing up after the batman hung up his cowl after the death of Harvey Dent. This is where they discuss the investment that Bruce Wayne made that did not work.-
    2. 'At one point, Bruce Wayne is seen wearing a light-colored dress shirt, kind of white with stripes. But then at another point, he’s in a black T-shirt.:
    -WOH
    -Nolan has tried to make these films as realistic as possible for you, the least you can do is consider that batman also has the ability to change the clothes he wears... :S-
    3. 'Who are Bane’s parents?! This guy’s some huge roided-out killer who came from some prison or something, but we don’t know anything about his childhood, his teen years, anything. Plus what’s under his mask? What does it do? How are we supposed to identify with him if he’s some blank slate? Ugh. Boring.':
    -If you wanted to know just ask or look for yourself, Bane was also born in the prison, he was in there because of his fathers prison sentence which required him to serve past his own life time... the sentence was then passed on to his son bane who grew up in the prison. Bane's parents also have no relevance to this story. His mask reduces the pain caused by the caving in of his face after helping Talia escape.-
    4. 'Speaking of that: Selina Kyle’s a jewel thief because why again? Last I checked she stole stuff just because the script needed her to steal stuff. That’s just some lazy bullshit right there.':
    -She steals stuff to stay alive 'girls gotta eat' she also explains her moral compass to her friend after Bane's take over of Gotham... she stole the jewels from the safe to get Waynes prints in exchange for 'the clean slate' the pearls are meant to make wayne think thats what she was after.-
    5.' Gotham has its own football team?! AND a stadium?! Totally random. They’re just dropped into the plot for no reason.':
    -Do I have to pick at this ? Really? Gotham's a modern US city yes they have a football team. So what, the point was to gather the worlds and gothams eyes on Banes demands... how many people watch football ?-
    6. 'Where does Alfred go? He just freaking leaves Bruce for a while and does … what exactly? Is he traveling the countryside? And then he just shows back up later, unannounced, and then he even gets to be in the final scene. Horrible structure.':
    -Hardly a horrible structure, DID YOU NOT GET THAT ALFRED LEFT BECAUSE HE DIDN'T WANT TO SEE BRUCE KILL HIMSELF? Its understandable that he would leave gotham before the events of banes take over and be refused entry back in... i donno why.. maybe because of the atom bomb being detonated if he was to try and return-
    7. 'When Batman and Bane are punching each other, I’m pretty sure they aren’t really hitting each other. I think it’s because Christian Bale and Tom Hardy aren’t supposed to hit each other in real life, which is probably for some dumb reason like safety or insurance, but it just makes the movie like weak and fake.'

    -Sorry did you watch the same film I did? the first fight seen was brutal ? Bane broke Batman's mask by punching him in the face repeatedly and yes there was contact because both actors was injured during the filming of the fight scenes. READ UP ON IT :)-
    8.' There’s no way Batman could actually fly. Duh.'
    -Well theres a huge plot hole right there! forget about the man who turns green and grows 3 times his size when made angry. Or the God exiled to earth with a magical hammer. Batman glides for starters he does not fly. If you choose to listen to someone who writes their physics degree on batman its obvious he takes BATMAN a bit literal and serious. -
    9. 'And seriously: How come no one mentions the Joker? HELLO! He was the whole point of the last movie! I don’t know. The more I think about it, it’s like they weren’t even trying':
    Its my understanding that the portrayal of the Joker by heath ledger is undoubtedly amazing. To quote him in this film would be wrong to do. Ledger had already made his impact on the batman Trilogy there was no need to try and squeeze more out of the memory we have of heath ledger's Joker.

    Listen I would love to hear back from you guys about this response. The Dark Knight Rises is not as good a film as The Dark Knight. That was expected and accepted. And for many people it was a let down. I myself loved the film for what it is. And that is the story of Bruce Wayne. I agree there are parts in the film that don't work. But the list above is complete shit and I'm happy to put it down until you come up with some valid plot holes.

  • Skywaytraffic

    Haha awww. Obivous delusional fanboy is obvious.

  • YeahMisterWhite

    Re: plot hole - You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. Most of these aren't actually plot holes, they're just complaints.

  • Carlos M.

    Not a single thing you listed can really be called a plot hole. I mean I find part of what made Bane a bad ass character is that you really don't know everything about him. Did you write this same review for how they didn't explain the Joker's past in The Dark Knight? No. And do you really need to know Catwoman's whole back story? I mean I don't see any of this as plot wholes. And Wayne's shirt changing? Really? And plus if you look into it Christopher Nolan said he never mentioned The Joker out of respect for Heath Ledger. I really feel like this article was a waste of my time.

  • Batman recovering from a BROKEN BACK with no medical treatment pretty much killed the film for me. I'm all about suspension of disbelief but when he needed machines to help him walk earlier in the film because he had bad knees, I find it hard to believe he could heal a broken back by hanging from a rope.

  • I hated this movie so much I've seen it three times in IMAX. Not really...the hate part...
    F-?!
    What are you? Seven? You obviously weren't paying attention. English isn't even my first language and I could understand everything about this movie. Why couldn't you?

  • Ass Hole

    There are probably some good criticisms of Batman, but they're not to be found in this article. This stuff is just stupid.

    1) It's not weird or unusual to meet new characters. It's not a plot hole. You don't meet everyone that lives in your city, do you? Sometimes new people just spring into your life, it happens. It's completely reasonable that she wasn't included in the prior movies, I have no idea how this is even a criticism. Her character was the daughter of al Ghul, and she didn't want people to know that was her father, so she kept a low radar. It's not that she just SUDDENLY appeared in Gotham, it's that she was just some other rich person in the city.

    2) So he's supposed to wear the same shirt throughout the whole movie? Not really a plot hole. At one point, Bruce is shirtless, at another, he's wearing a bat suit, and at another, he's practically naked under the covers! Oh my, how dare they have him wearing different things at different points in the story!

    3) Why would we know who his parents are? We don't know Alfred's parents. We don't know Al Ghul's parents. We don't know Joker's parents. We don't know CatWoman's parents. We don't know Gordon's parents. We don't know Scarecrow's parents. The fuck kinda criticism is that? So what? We don't know his parents, big deal.

    He was in prison during his teen years, and his mask was explained. You weren't watching very closely. That's why the plot holes you're pointing out are bullshit.

    4) It actually did explain why she was a thief. Again, you're not watching closely. But even if it didn't, so what? Does it explain why Morgan Freeman is a weapons developer? Does it explain why Joker is a criminal? Does it explain why the guy who drives truck chose that for a career? Does it explain why Harvey Dent became a lawyer? Not everything warrants an explanation. Sometimes you can just accept that people do things.

    5) Of course it does you twat. It's a big city, the size of New York. New York has 2 fucking football teams. Why wouldn't Gotham have a football team and a stadium? Why would you NOT expect that?

    6) Who cares? Who cares where he goes? He gets pissed at Bruce and leaves for a while, until he finds out Bruce died. I'm not his mother, I don't give a shit if he goes somewhere without telling me where. Would it have added value to the film if they were to explicitly say where he went when he left? I don't think so.

    7) The combat was less than prime, granted. Not really a "plot hole" though. Fight choreography is not the same as plot.

    8) Again, not a plot hole. This is a superhero movie, the laws of physics are sometimes tweaked for entertainment value. Learn what plot means, please.

    9) Yes, finally, a true plot hole pointed out. Didn't really bother me though. They could have just had him in Arkham Asylum or something, idk. Doesn't matter.

  • CartoonCoyote

    I've enjoyed this thread *so goddamned much*. To paraphrase Melvin Udall, "People who don't read the *entire fucking article* before before commenting on it oughtta shampoo my crotch."

  • Dear Writer:
    The two pictures aren't even in the same scene. They are in the span of 10 minutes apart. And there is a very simple explanation for it. Bruce Wayne changed clothes. Use your brain and deduct simple plot holes, then the movie will be better.

  • Kevin Friel

    I could explain a lot of the plot holes on here, but I'd get negged and thrown with other questions. It's a good movie. It has it's problems but overall a good watch.

  • HollywoodNeedsHelp

    Brilliant article. Hat's off to you and major kudos for a thorough and thought provoking examination at comic pop culture. As an avid, long time superhero geek since I was 3, I must say, the world that has been shaped around sheer commercialization and exploitation of beloved franchises in this day and age is EXACTLY as you've described.

    People don't enjoy these experiences anymore, it's a competition to "understand" or "like" it more than the other guy, vicariously living through something bereft of imagination or creativity, yet put up on a pedestal like it's something deeper or more significant than it really is. The comparison in reaction to The Avengers vs TDKR post mortem is spot on in that regard.

    My main issue above all else is really, why? Why are people so deeply, emotionally invested in movies like Batman that they deny logic or reason? It's like a cult of sorts in that respect, people want to believe it's flawless, perfect etc because they've invested so much time, energy, anticipation that anything less would be soul crushing. If anyone dare be constructively critical of said work, these same people seem to take it as a personal attack.

    Now THAT'S scary.

  • Tyler Jennings

    1. I love this article.
    2. I LOVE all the people in these comments who only read the first half of it with the fake plot holes and wrote multi-paragraph diatribes against them and you.

  • Undertaker

    Oh come on,where should I even begin?

    1) It was eight years since the dark knight and batman's retirement.Is it really that impossible that someone managed to enter Wayne Enterprises' executive board in that time period? You might as well claim that Harvey Dent's sudden appearance in The Dark Knight was more impossible. We never heard of him in Batman Begins

    2)Don't remember much about this part

    3)Who cares? Same goes for the joker.We never knew his name,where he lived,who cleaned his diapers when he was a baby etc... We never even got a straight answer about the origin of his scars and the makeup(Is it to hide the scars? Create a more twisted image? I fear clowns though) Yet The Joker's performance is one of the best we've ever seen in movie history (Way better than Jack Nicholson)

    4)The script did mention that Selina Kyle wasn't exactly very rich. She had to make a living one way or another.

    5)And that's a problem why?

    6,7,8)I've nothing to say about these.

    9)This is partly due to Heath Ledger's death(Bless his soul). It would be an insult to his memory if you simply find another actor just for the purpose of a cameo. Furthermore, isn't there enough villains already. Addition of the Joker may make the script too over-complicated.It also wasn't necessary to mention him as he really had nothing to do with the current threat. You don't see Gordan or Batman mentioning Ra when dealing with the Joker.

  • CSbland

    I appreciate well thought
    out, meaningful criticism, but that’s not what we have here. The author of this
    piece did a piss poor job, and just as it is legitimate for anyone to criticize
    a film, it’s also legitimate for anyone to criticize a piece of criticism (and
    calling this juvenile little list “criticism” is like calling the back of a cereal
    box “literature”).

    First off, the author
    doesn’t even seem to understand the definition of “plot hole”. If you simply
    don’t like a decision the filmmaker has made, it’s not a plot hole. It’s
    perfectly fine to complain about decisions the filmmakers made that one disagrees
    with, but call it what it is.

    If there is an inconsistency
    in costume, or a boom appears in frame, etc, it is NOT a plot hole. It’s a
    goof, an error, a mistake, but not a plot hole (BTW, people change clothes all
    the time, and tea shirts have a way of lurking under formalwear, so I’m not
    even sure if the change in outfit that’s so upset the author of this piece would
    constitute a goof, but I digress.

    Many of the “plot
    holes” listed here just reflect the laziness / lack of observation /
    unwillingness to think on the part of the critic. For example

    “Toward the start of the movie, we meet a character named
    Miranda Tate, played by Marion Cotillard. But this is the first time we’ve even seen her! She wasn’t in the first two
    movies. Are we supposed to just assume she showed up one day in Gotham City?! Not likely”

    Wow, H.L.
    Mencken here cannot believe that within an 8 year period (yes, there was a
    title card that helpfully pointed out that 8 years had passed since the events
    of the last film), a new person shows up in a giant metropolis like Gotham?
    WTF? Is he not aware that event’s change over time? It’s called “the
    progression of life”. If he cannot accept the appearance of a new character, I
    fear his enjoyment of anything but shot-by-shot remakes of existing films will
    be seriously hampered. When I read criticism like this, I start to think the
    critic is A) deeply stupid, B) willfully obtuse, C) trying to find fault to
    demonstrate how “above” it all he is. In all three cases, the result is crap
    writing and a waste of the reader’s time.

    Several of the other “plot holes” in this list
    are simply complaints about lack of back story. First, if you’re complaining
    that you want MORE exposition in an almost three hour film, I become suspicious
    that you’re a masochist. Secondly, not every character and event can come fully
    supplied with a detailed back story. In fact, sometime an element of mystery
    can actually enhance a film (hard to believe, I know).

    In the end, I would not mind someone complaining
    about minor problems and nitpicking minuscule details (it would be tedious and
    utterly pointless, but hay; it’s your time to waste) provided that they are
    honest about what they’re doing (don’t say “9 major plot holes” when what you
    really mean is “9 minor issues that have really upset me because I have far too
    much time on my hands”), and that you do it with a bit of skill and finesse. Neither
    of these two conditions are evident here.

  • rob

    1. Movie takes place 8 years later and it does tell you who Miranda Tate is... she didn't just show up out of nowhere. She invested in Wayne industries 3 years prior to find an efficient energy source
    2.So what it doesn't show him taking off his suit...... what does that have to do with the movie, Nolan didn't think he had to show someone changing outfits.
    3.I agree that it should have shown us more about Bane and where he came from etc. The mask is to help the pain when he was severely beaten in the prison or something along those lines.
    4. Agree.
    5. Gotham city has 12 million citizens... cities that big can usually afford a football team and stadium.
    6. Agree it's weird that Alfred just randomly disappears and then re-appears.
    7. Stupid. No movies have the star actors actually punching each other.
    8. I don't recall Batman flying but agree. Its just a movie though.
    9. Joker was 8 years ago and is gone from the picture. After many years people tend to forget and get distracted with what is current.

  • steve

    wonderful article. well though out and easily related to. this should be rammed into people's faces right after the the previews (because nobody stays for the credits)

  • Simmans

    Are you seven? You sound lke a seven year-old. Why would NYC have a football stadium? Why are there bumblebees? How come people poop? Jezus!

  • Ross

    Most of your plot holes are not plot holes. The film is already three hours long if you want the back story to every single character read the comics.
    Your bitching about there being a football stadium I mean really why is that not believable it is a huge city.
    Where Alfred goes is irrelevant to the plot of the movie.
    Nolan started before the release of the Film that there would be no mention of Joker as a sign of respect to Ledger. Again he is not relevant.
    I am all for criticism of a film but this is silly. I hope no one who has not seen it yes it put of by this, it is a great movie and takes Bruce to a whole new level. Batman does not need to be in every other scene.

  • CartoonCoyote

    Satire: Learn to recognize it.

  • And then a guy who writes in all caps, articulates what I was trying to get across.
    http://badassdigest.com/2012/0...

  • JohnPenn

    Very poor article. Almost all your plot holes are you looking too deep into something that was actually explained or makes a lot of sense for both the film and the trilogy. You should wonder why your site is not a top site to go to for anything movie related. I would have never found this site if I didn't stumble upon it surfing the web and I am disappointed that I did. You can dislike a movie for its flaws but to hate it for reasons that have almost no validity or justifiability is plain wrong. Anyone reading this article can see that you just disliked the movie and searched for reasons to justify it, your arguments make no sense have no logical premises or even carry entailment. I'm sorry but this is an article if you watch the movies have any kind of previous Batman knowledge or look into a deeper meaning that you can find almost all your drastic statements to be outlandish and false.

  • KB

    #1, you do realize TDKR takes place like 8 years after the Joker incident, right? So Tate being there and "just showing up" is very plausible. What background do you need on her? Especially seeing as how throughout the movie we find out more and more about her.
    #2. Wayne being in 2 different shirts isn't a plot hole genius, it is just a directing/editing mistake. Even if it did happen, which I don't recall, who cares. The shots you have of the "different shirt catastrophe" is clearly from 2 different scenes. So you really have no evidence of this happening.
    #3. You'd know about Bane, 1) if you did a little brief reading of his character's bio on wikipedia, and 2) paid attention to the movie. He was Tate's guardian in prison and helped her escape. He got beat up while in prison severely and has to wear the mask which he breaths in some sort of medication (in the comic book a steroid called Venom... again wikipedia is a wonderful thing) which dulls the severe pain he'd otherwise be feeling, it is a steroid, hence the crazy strength. Do you really give a shit about his childhood? What was Alfred's childhood like and why did he become Wayne's butler...... who cares fool.
    #4 Selina steals stuff for money. She doesn't have a job and feels vindicated to steal from only the rich. Much like a modern day Robin Hood. However she has regrets about her life choices (becoming a criminal) and decides to help out a thug to acquire Wayne's prints (which is why she was in his room at the beginning of the movie) and her payment was supposed to be a device that can wipe her record clean so she can start a new life. Again if you paid attention to the movie you'd have caught that.
    #5 You realize Gotham is a fictional city, depicted to be similar to NYC right? I doubt you realize it because your gripes so far are lame and beyond ignorant, you must have very low grades in school, and I assume you are still in school because of how ignorant you are. Anyways, back to #5. So Gotham is a major City and what do all major cities have..... pro sports teams. So why is it hard to believe they have a football team? Do sports not exist in your ignorant concept of Gotham City? Also, Bane needed a stage to inform the people of Gotham what was what. What better pace than a packed football stadium that can hold 60-70+ thousand people.
    #6 Alfred said he was going to leave and he left. Where's the plot hole in that. Are you really curious as to where Alfred, the least important character in the movie, went? To make you feel better how about, he went back home to London, makes sense.... probably was implied..... and Nolan probably didn't think people would actually care where Alfred went after he said he was leaving. At least normal people don't care because it bears little if any effect on the movie.
    #7 Are you seriously this dumb? Do you think people in action movies are actually hitting each other? Wow. You're just flat out stupid aren't you. SMH. I don't know of any movie where there is a fight scene where the actors are throwing real punches at each other. You do realize it takes multiple takes to get the scene right. So if actors in general actually hit each other they'd be all bruised up and sore. Actors haven't been punching each other for forever, man you're an idiot. I bet you think wrestling is real too.
    #8 What????
    #9 See #1. This movie takes place almost a decade after the events of the second one.

    Now for real plot holes, how did Gotham city go from a land locked city (was filmed in Chicago for the first two films) to an island city similar to manhattan on the ocean???? That was my only beef, but really didn't bother me or take away from the movie whatsoever.

  • morgardee

    The only point of the 9 made is maybe #2, about the colour and type of shirt being off. But that is hardly a "Huge Plot Hole". Some people can only build themselves up by knocking others down. Silly, small minded people that look for the smallest thing to bitch about.

    "Where id Alfred go?". It wasn't relevant to the the plot, but if it makes you feel any better, he was at Walmart, and then he went to his friend Chucks house and they discussed Prince William. Then he went back to check on Bruce.

    I could go point by point and tear down each and everyone of your points with the exception of #2 but for I'll just focus on point 9 for now. Where was the talk of the Joker? let me ask you this, when was the last time you mentioned Hitler? Is it done on a daily basis? No? Good, then your normal.

    They made HUGE references to the second movie BECAUSE IT WAS RELEVANT to the plot. I get it, the Joker was cool in the second movie but he was only half of it. Two Face ? Harvey Dent was just as relevant as the Joker was in the second movie and he was a public figure. The Joker was a homicidal maniac that caused trouble for Gotham city 8 years before this one.

    Really, get over yourself. You sound like an angry 14 year old kid saying "Look at me, I hated something that's popular right now".

  • Less Lee Moore

    Oh my god. This is amazing. I laughed so hard my face hurts. Thank you so much. You said everything I was thinking and a few things I didn't think of (much like your original TDKR review). I ranted about this on my own site earlier today but your article is way funnier. You're a better man than I am. Okay, well, I'm not a man, but you get my point.

  • ,

    "everyone — turned The Dark Knight Rises into pure product"

    Everyone minus one.

  • Dave

    I'm sorry man, but you're really missin the point of the title. It's called The Dark Knight Rises. And you're wondering about Alfread? And you're saying that Nolan missed the point? C'mon man. Watch the movie for an escape from reality. Don't watch it and expect to see something without flaws. And even though it does have flaws, there is no need to harp on them.

  • MikeRoorda

    Protip: You should probably read the rest of the article before commenting next time.

  • bokchoi

    I was almost universally down-voted for saying "Batman Begins" was better. BUT IT WAS. I won't even try to compare it to "The Dark Knight"

  • wow

    what a noob troll, everything you said is invalid. LOL TRY AGAIN SOME OTHER DAY RANTING BOY.

  • wow

    1. its been 8 years, and there is a reason (not gonna spoil. you noob)
    2. i dont know what the f youre talkin about.
    3. his past doesnt matter, what matters is who he became and how he became the way he is. the story OBVIOUSLY tells you. under his mask is his fucked up face. and his fucked up body. the story of bane was obviously changed for realistic reasons. if you actually paid attention you would understand what its for. (once again, not gonna spoil).
    4.
    5. i could easily say the opposite, and it would make sense. a better rant to say would be "why did he go to the stadium?" well cause theres a shit load of people there.
    6. alfred leaves cause he doesnt want to be a part of his death. if you paid attention to the movie you would understand.
    7. when was the last time you saw a movie that did?
    8. fiction, enjoy it for what it is.
    9. and once again, it has been 8 years.
    go f yourself.

  • Great post Daniel. Couldn't agree more.

  • Bex

    Did anyone bring up the magical plot-contingent missingish cartiledge?

  • blorft

    It just would have been so much easier if they had made it a psychosomatic limp caused by sadness that went away when Bruce stopped being a recluse. I would have accepted that! That's the kind of plausibility it's okay to stretch!

  • jenmovies

    None of these are plot holes. These are simply rants about you having no imagination at all. Nolan makes films for people who can fill in the blanks on their own.

  • corysims

    Honestly, the so called plot holes aren't holes if you look at the film from this angle; Talia's entire convoluted plan is a systemic take down of everything that Bruce Wayne is and what he stands for. Everything before the football sequence is about taking everything from Wayne and use it against him in order to destroy his city. Bane basically says this once Wayne wakes up in the Pit for the first time.

    The entire second half is about Bruce's rise and becoming what he set out to become since Begins; A SYMBOL.

    This film ain't that hard people.

  • no one

    lmao. So "Newsroom" is liberal so you should watch it. "Batman" is conservative so it's lame. Got it.

  • I think you missed it. Missed it by a mile.

  • fatpie42

    Why didn't you have an article like this after Prometheus? I suffered through review after review and article after article claiming the Prometheus didn't make sense and that it was full of plot holes. It seemed absolutely fine to me because I knew Ridley Scott doesn't always do things perfectly, so I was happily surprised to find a really enjoyable and beautiful (yet creepy) piece of cinema.

    Now The Dark Knight Rises comes along with plot holes galore and suddenly all the critics are rushing to its defence. Why? What did TDKR do to warrant all this apologetics that Prometheus didn't?

  • junierizzle

    One thing is TDKR did what it said it was going to do, end the trilogy. Prometheus didn't do what it said it would do. Which was go to the alien planet that "created" us. It went to a military base. It ended with homegirl going to the real planet, her going is the.movie we thought we were going to get, now we have to wait for a sequel to get the movie we were originally promised.

  • I know you'd like to ignore it but there ARE valid criticisms of TDKR.

    The Dark Knight Rises vs. The 99%
    By Eileen Jones, July 22, 2012

    .
    . . this movie isn’t just ideologically rotten to the core, it’s rotten
    in the regular way, too. Bad, stupid, lame, embarrassing, and seemingly
    interminable, full of main characters delivering long-winded speeches
    explaining their histories from childhood so we’ll be sure to understand
    their motivations, which are murky and trite in equal measure. Famous
    and excellent actors do their damnedest to put all this crap across. But
    don’t let all the cinematic embiggening fool you! Nolan lays on bogus
    profundity with a trowel! . . .http://exiledonline.com/the-dark-knig...

  • junierizzle

    "Bad, stupid, lame and embarrassing" Embarrassing? Come on, you couldn't get passed the plot hole? Fine. You didn't like some of the dialogue?Fine. I get everyones point on why they didn't like it but all the critiques still don't add to embarrassing or ridiculous or even stupid. AT the very least your disappointment should have been chalked up to a simple "Eh, it was alright, I guess."

  • TheAggroCraig

    I'll be honest, I did wonder where Alfred went. He lives at Wayne Manor, doesn't he? Am I wrong? AM I WRONG?

  • blorft

    I like to imagine he ate his way across Europe in swanky cafes, and provided sage wisdom to errant millionaires with his new business venture, Alfred Pennyworth Consulting.

  • Jim Johnson

    I smell a TV spinoff!

  • This whole thread is a frowny kingdom.

    Only advice I have is- see it a second or third time. As you do whenever you're confused or feel you may have missed something, just go back, check it again.
    Anecdotally- I too was very disappointed when I saw it the first time, then I waited a week, took some friends to a second round. Seemed tighter, more focused, answered some questions. Filled in some holes. I personally rank it as the best of the trilogy now- my first viewing I ranked it as the worst.

  • Pookie

    What’s the reason for this column anyway Carlson other than to show us that you have a quick eye and a trusty pen and pad? This column is all about you and your need to show the masses how smart you think you are. Wow, “The Dark Knight” has plot holes, and in BREAKING NEWS!!: we will all die one day. It’s like you sat back and waited in the bushes just to jump out and yell boo at anyone that passes by. Good job dude, your credibility is firmly intact.

  • I would watch a children's style show called "Pookie's World".

  • AudioSuede

    People are throwing around the term "suspension of disbelief" a lot about this film, as if it was impossible to believe any of the things that happened are possible.

    Which completely misses the point, because within a universe wherein there's a fucking masked superhero with a cape fighting a massive villain wearing a steroid-pumping gas mask to prevent a nuclear fusion reactor that they'd kept secret from the world going off, little shit like, "But his leg!" is pretty damned trivial, and I've yet to hear anyone make a valid argument about the plot not making sense or any actual problems with comprehension or logic that would derail the movie.

    Therefore, I can only assume that people's inability to "suspend disbelief" is code for "we built this movie up too much and now it's not The Godfather and we don't want it to be our fault that we didn't enjoy it more than anything else ever."

  • 1. No she didn't just show up, she was just one of millions of Gotham citizens we hadn't heard of before. What a stretch? (Dripping with sarcasm)
    2. First of all, that has nothing to do with the PLOT so it isn't a PLOT HOLE. Also, in some countries people wear t-shirts underneath dress shirts...or change clothes occasionally.
    3. It's explicitely stated why he wears the mask. Also, not a plot hole. Who are Selina Kyle's parents? The Jokers? The Scarecrows? We don't know, and it doesn't matter.
    4. Selina Kyle is a jewel thief for the same reason some people are plumbers. They're good at their job and it's a living. Oh, and because she's been a cat burglar since the character was created back before either of us were born.
    5. Also, not a plot hole....you might want to look up the definition.
    6. FINALLY! You've actually described a plot hole. And to be fair, it bothered me as well. You're 1/6 so far.
    7. The fight scenes could've been better, but again, this is not a plot hole. I'll give you 1.5/7
    8. Of course someone with unlimited resources couldn't do something that hippies with a backpack and nylon do every day. I'm taking that .5 back. 1/8
    9. Yet again, not a plot hole, but granted at least a mention of him would've been nice, although being eight years later it's not necessary, and yes, this is a HUGE run on sentence. Or as you would put it....a plot hole.
    1 out of 9. Not your best work Pajiba. Tsk Tsk.

  • Congratulations. Best post yet. Uppppppp-vote.

  • jamie pants

    GOD, I can't really tell if any of you asshats are serious anymore!

  • hapl0

    Dude...

  • Pajiba: You're doing it wrong.

  • AudioSuede

    LOL, somebody didn't read the whole thing.

  • Jason Malmberg

    Wow, why didn't you just copy and paste "haters gonna hate" 500 times? It would have been pretty much the same article.

  • danobc

    redlettermedia released there review of TDKR and made their point about the plot inconsistencies. in that it mostly doesn't matter if the plotholes don't rupture the "emotional core" of the movie. if a movie doesn't have such a core then its ok to rip every plothole apart. but if it has such a core and if the film is fulfilling the core's idea than most of the holes don't matter. i think there is some merit to the argument but i have to watch the review again to further understand their argument but i think there is some merit in it.

    i myself don't care about a lot of plotholes. if i don't see them and i enjoy what the movie is trying to show.

  • Matt Brown

    This reads more like somebody who was butt hurt that people took issue with a film they liked despite it being obviously flawed.

  • Slash

    Haven't seen the movie, so can't weigh in there, but I haven't ever been able to take Batman seriously. He has little pointy ears. Plus, he's named "Batman." That's just silly.

  • the new transported man

    Yeah, no. Film was of exceptionally poor plotting, & often editing, & ripe for dissection. Exceptionally so given the renowned director, the beloved property, & the other 2 movies in the trilogy. Good on you if you loved it, but this movie was a bloated mess, so discuss away, moviegoers.

    More worthy of scrutiny is the behavior of moviegoers/vocal critics. The way people defend or lambast this bad film is petulant & childish. So is this article, in its own, more highbrow way.

  • redrahul

    This film is very well received and it lived up to the hype(somewhat). Sure, TDKR wasn't as good as TDK, but it's kind of hard trying to please every person with this movie. Watch it a second time and you can see a whole lot difference.I personally like this film a whole lot not because of trying to get all the little details but trying to get the actual story.

  • junierizzle

    I wasn't disappointed. Could it have been tighter? Sure. Is it stupid, on par with a Michael Bay movie? Not even close. TDKR is The Dark Knight compared to anything Bay has done. So if you didn't like, cool. But I have to call bullsh*t if you think its Bay-bad. I think a lot of these internet quarrels can be avoided if people just used the phrase "it didn't work for me." How can you argue that?

  • dewdney

    Absolutely. This movie worked for me. Is it going to work for everyone? No. Are there going to be discussions about all the good and bad points? Yes. If you don't want to take part in them, don't read them. You might miss out on the 10,000 points, but you'll gain 10,000 the next thread over. It didn't work for me, here's why. You can critique without being personal and over the top.

  • MAG

    People have set the bar up so high since The Dark Knight, that they expected a miracle. There are no more plot holes here than in The Avengers. Have any of you done the same? The movie is not perfect, but it is by no means shitty or crappy.

    People always find a way to highlight the bad instead of the good. Suck it up.

  • AudioSuede

    Exactly. More to the point, people idealize The Dark Knight. Watch that movie again, and there are plenty of problems. Like the entire mob being caricatures straight out of a 1940s cartoon, or Gordon's inexplicable fake death that was such a stretch of imagination that most of the characters forget about it within ten minutes of learning he's actually alive, or the fact that there are things that certain characters know details that they couldn't possibly know (Gordon, especially). Is it the best comic book movie ever made? I think so. Even among the top three best movies of 2008. That's the nature of epics, and of action films; there are problems.

  • I'll probably be fried for this, but I'm in the opinion that the best comic book ever made, at least of the flights and tights variety, is X2, warts and all.

  • AudioSuede

    X2 was certainly the best X-Men movie. Though comparing it to The Dark Knight is something I wouldn't attempt personally. Very different films, but in terms of sheer filmmaking alone, TDK is in a whole other league.

  • MAG

    That was also a very good movie. I would need to watch (consecutively) X1, X2, Spidey 1 / 2, TDK Trilogy, Iron Man to see which I would think is the best... Still, as a Trilogy, I think TDK. Raimi screwed up Spidey 3... same with X-3.

    I don't think you can beat Downey Jr. as a comic book character though... him as Stark is like he was meant to be.

  • Yeah. X2 was a recent revelation for me. I revisited on a whim and was actually blown away at how tight each scene is as an action piece, one after the other. It of course suffers from it's own plot holes, but if it was released now I think it would still hold up. It's a solid, weighted, and entirely engaging comic film that I don't think gets enough credit as helping define the genre.

  • Jonathan T

    Funny take on this, made me laugh.
    Let's not even talk about Avengers, the proof that all this criticism of plot points is just a product of sky-high expectations is that the Dark Knight is just as bad. Only people expected a good movie and they got a great one instead so nobody wrote any negative-focusing list.
    Chris Nolan's plots are not bullet-proof, never have, never will be, and that's not why some of his movies are masterpieces. Striving for complete logic and the absence of any plot hole is a trap that leads to long-winded and boring narration. Have you seen the Shining recently? This movie makes no sense at all (I'm not talking about the super-natural aspects). Still, masterpiece. You could write a book, describing the original SW trilogy's plot issues.
    Admittedly Nolan set himself up for this particular critic with his realistic-looking approach, contrary to the ones I have quoted, but it's still more fantasy than complete realism and people are way too eager to over-analyze this.

  • hapl0

    No one is saying TDK is plot hole free. That Nolan presented it in such a way that it didn't distract the viewing experience is what made it great.

    TDKR on the other hand...well, you get it. Not being able to differentiate the two is what I find to be most troubling.

  • Lipton

    There is nothing more pedantic than a disappointed fan. I'm about to admit to a grievous Pajiba sin, but I can still remember how I felt after I saw Joss Whedon's Serenity, they was I laid in bed for hours analyzing and reanalyzing every scene, trying to understand my extreme negative reaction to the movie when I had balls-to-the-wall adored every Firefly-shaped thing that had come before it. I felt personally betrayed, as if Whedon himself had set out to shit all over me and my expectations. Now, I'm not saying that's a rational response and I certainly don't expect Whedon or Nolan or any director to cater to my every whim, but all the rationalizing in the world couldn't change my emotional response. I hated that movie and my mental lists helped me to process those emotions and put them in perspective.

    Okay, now I want to come up with some kind of fan healing spectrum. First there's vitriol, then angry lists, then analysis, then profit? Something like that. All I know is that I loved The Dark Knight Rises more than any movie I've seen in a long time and while I'm never going to convince someone who hates it that it was awesome, they're never going to convince me that it sucked. And maybe, one day, the Trekkies and the Star Wars fans, the Spangels and the Spuffers, will all come together and sing in three-part harmony. And we Pajibites can sit on a grassy knoll and mock them all.

  • John G.

    How often do you see movies? What constitutes a "long time" since you saw the last movie? I'm trying to filter out the hyperbole and see what you're saying.

  • hapl0

    There is nothing more pedantic than a disappointed fan.

    And you've lost me.

  • Devin McMusters

    It's like when you went to the theater to see the Twin Peaks movie and couldn't follow it, even though you've seen every tv episode.

  • hapl0

    So now we're down to making fun of people who didn't enjoy the movie, huh? Bravo.

    I have been consoling myself with the thought that the people who enjoyed TDKR are either people who never experienced TDK for what it really was, forgotten about the experience of watching TDK or have been desensitized by the crapload of crappy movies that have been released since TDK.

    We get it. You guys enjoyed every second of the movie and we are overly analytical pricks who don't get that TDKR is just a movie.

    Forgive us for feeling the way we do and please don't attempt to counter our points, just handwave it.

  • branded_redux

    " It’s not wrong to dislike a popular movie, or to mount an argument
    against it. It’s always good to examine the art and your relationship to
    it, even if it means coming down against something everyone else seems to be praising."

    Did you read what was written or were you too busy stuffing your strawman?

  • hapl0

    "I can’t help but feel that these cringe-worthy listicles about The Dark Knight Rises are indicative of something bigger and way more worrisome than we’ve even figured out yet."

    I was ready to apologize if there was indeed something wrong with my understanding of this article but I don't think so.

    If you're willing to enlighten me beyond the stuffing my strawman assessment then please do but please don't patronize me.

  • branded_redux

    It's not an indictment of all people who didn't enjoy the movie. Nobody's calling you an analytical prick, and if you read Dan's review, he didn't blindly enjoy everything about TDKR.

    There are valid criticisms of the movie, but there are also asinine, nit-picking complaints. This article is ripping into the drawbacks of the latter, not the existence of the former.

  • hapl0

    [I hope you won't resort to tl:dr-ing me, not after that decent comeback.]

    See, you say that but that is exactly what this article is. No one has to because everyone (mostly?) is thinking it and I did read his review, twice now, only to be reminded of electric wings.

    The Dark Knight Rises is more than that, though, in quiet and weird and sad ways, in rousing and exciting ways, in beautiful and stupefying ones that sometimes don’t have anything to do with the marriage of plot and aesthetic and are solely about the skill with which you can be made to believe you’re flying through the air on electric wings.

    Simply touching on the weird exposition dialogs alone and then showering one compliment after another for every other facet of the movie except for the plot and character motivation is blindly enjoying in my book because you rather ignore the obvious in favor of "flying".

    Look, I'm happy that you feel Nolan was skillful enough to make you and your gang fly. I wish I could like I did with TDK.

    And this article can't even begin to rip into the drawbacks of "asinine, nit-picking complaints" because it lost its credibility the moment it decided to make a mockery of legitimate criticisms leveled against the movie.

    Why not address the points raised in those listicles so that we can agree to disagree instead of treating disappointed fans in such a condescending manner?

    I don't need a lesson in expectation management. I didn't even expect TDKR to be perfect or heck, even better than TDK considering the track record.

    The problem, to me and my people (if I may), is that it is no where near TDK (or Begins for that matter) in terms of story and pacing and that is all we wish to highlight in a world that is hell bent on loving TDKR just because it's not a Michael Bay movie and it has Nolan's stamp on it.

  • branded_redux

    Your last paragraph is the best summation and is something with which I definitely agree. However "it lost its credibility the moment it decided to make a mockery of legitimate criticisms leveled against the movie." is where the difference lies. Maybe it's simply a difference of opinions, but the stance is that all of them are not legitimate criticisms (though said criticisms certainly exist like why are you wandering the streets, Wayne? Does no one have a sense of urgency here?!).

    Also, td; kr.

  • hapl0

    I knew you were going to bring that up. I'm not saying every point brought up in that 15 point list or any other is legitimate. But to dismiss every list out there and in that manner is just wrong.

    I see what you did there.

  • John G.

    I enjoyed The Dark Knight Rises, but that doesn't mean it didn't have distracting plot holes.

  • TheOriginalMRod

    Yep... I was going to say Prometheus.

    If you weren't happy with DKR just wait around a few years. There will be another incarnation of Batman that you can hate just as much.

  • And by that time DKR will have the same amount of backlash as Spiderman 3

  • AudioSuede

    LOL, well that's an overstatement and a half.

  • These aren't plot holes...I could go into depth explaining them all but I'm just going to talk about the points you raised that annoyed me most.
    5. Gotham is one of the largest and most well known city in America, in the comics obviously, and it shouldn't be a surprise that there is a football team.
    7. Of course they're not going to punch each other. If that fight was real christian bale would have broken his back, leg, jaw and some of his ribs.
    9. Christopher Nolan quite clearly revealed that there would be no mention of the joker throughout the film to show respect for the late Heath Ledger.

    Research these things before you put an article on the web!

  • competitivenonfiction

    Not to mention he was obviously wearing the black t-shirt under the white shirt. Geez Dustin, pay attention.

  • Upvote the shit out of this.

  • jamie pants

    " FINAL GRADE: F- Haha, zing, etc. I’ve had my sarcastic fun at the expense of recent link-bait lists like this and others." If you thought, for a second, that he was being serious, then you should probably just go away.

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