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Lena Dunham Thinks Men Are "Simple," And She's Probably Right Because She Is the Voice of a Generation

By Dustin Rowles | Think Pieces | April 2, 2013 | Comments ()


lena-dunham-counterpoint.jpg

Nevermind that only 400,000 people in her target demo actually watch the show, "Girls," Lena Dunham is the "voice of her generation," which is something that people want to keep reminding us of. I'm skeptical about the notion of an entire generation being reduced to one voice -- especially when that voice is of a woman from New York who dates rock stars -- but I'm sure that there are many things about her particular way of life that Lena Dunham nails, and it's probably fair to conclude that she is a decent representative of women whose fathers painted overtly sexual pop art and hangs out in multimillion dollar Brooklyn walk-ups with the children of other famous people.

I also believe that "Girls" is a brilliant show, in many ways for its ability to shed light on the self-entitled obnoxiousness of Dunham's generation. If you want to know why so many people resent white, privileged America, "Girls" offers examples in abundance. She's done an admirable job over two seasons of presenting the complexities of twenty-something New York women trapped between their calling to be strong feminists and their apparent desires to live out Bridget Jones novels.

But look closely enough, and you'll also realize this: Dunham is terrible at writing men. Yes, she does create compelling male characters, but they're not genuine. They are slackers without ambition only capable of being driven by their love of a woman; they are closet date rapists; misogynists meatheads; or they are pu**ies.

Why does Lena Dunham reduce men to walking hard-ons? Because dudes are "simple," as she tells Refinery29 in an interview published this week.

"I think these girls are more tortured by their relationships with each other, specifically Marnie and Hannah, then they are with their relationships to men," she said. "Men are, in some ways, simple, while their ability to get on the same page with each other, at the same time, is more of a challenge."

Exactly! We are simple, aren't we? Give us a beer, a cheesesteak, and throw us a f*ck every once in a while, and we're totally content. Our motivations are driven by women: Our natural state is vegetative, and only for the love of woman and sex are we driven toward success. Our relationships with each other are also very simple: We speak in a bro code; we never have falling outs, conflicts, or tension in our relationships with other men; and all over our communication is done via one-word text message grunts. This is true even of our hipster brethren, whose sensitivity and apathy are but disguises for our laziness. But take away our lady, and we'll CREATE AN APP. We don't have feelings, we only have different sizes of erections.

What I love about "Girls" is that it presents women of a certain age -- warts and all -- in interesting and dynamic ways that few shows have done before. Too often, women are presented as nags, shrews, or sex objects, but "Girls" presents unlikable female characters created by women, which gives us license to dislike them for the right reasons: Because they are unlikable, not because they are Heigl-ian one-dimensional stereotypes.

I'm sure, too, that someone as insightful and sophisticated as Dunham would afford men the same treatment, if we were worthy of it. But we are not complicated. We are simple, primitive people, really. We just walk around sticking our dicks in things, easy in our relationships with both men and women, just waiting for a woman to ask of us a romantic gesture that we will happily oblige -- even if it means running breathlessly through the streets of New York City -- no matter how fucked up and damaged the woman of our affections is. We are simple. We don't understand damage. We only understand that, if we do what a woman wants of us, we will be provided a place to house our c*cks.

And really, why should we bother being anything else when even trendy, intelligent television shows about spoiled but complicated women reduce us to penises with different flavors of one-dimensional dysfunction? Why should we aspire to be anything more than the depictions of men from the voice of a generation. If someone as important and influential as Lena Dunham thinks that we are "simple," then it must be so.



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Comments Are Welcome, Jerks Will Be Banned


  • K Landoni

    I completely disagree that the men on Girls are simple, but for the sake of argument, would anyone bat an eye if the women on a show called "Dudes" skewed toward the one-dimensional?

  • Meredith

    While I am happy I finally disagree with you (Dustin) after years of reading your blogs, I have to say I thought this blog was not only hyperbolic and unfair, but just blatantly wrong in places. I mean...I could sit and list examples supporting the complexity of the male characters as well as examples that directly contradict how you characterize her writing of the male gender, such as the fight between Sam and Adam, or the verbal recognition by Adam to Hannah that the things Hannah cares about out of him are not his entirety of a person, or, most importantly, the love Adam has and communicates for Hannah FOR WHO SHE IS rather than just her inherent capability of housing his penis by virtue of the possession of a working vagina...

    But who wants to split hairs! Rather, I am quite taken aback by how dismissive you are of her as a writer and a woman writing honest women as just someone who is just capable of making unlikable characters interesting, interesting insofar as they are portrayed in front of a backdrop of wealth and privilege and a complete lack of acknowledgement of that, who has degraded men down to horny simpletons, merely because Dunham made one careless comment that wasn't even entirely insulting. The show is ABOUT GIRLS, and specifically I think Dunham is situating the heart of the show within the context of how their relationships with each other in early adulthood dominate so much of their thinking, joy, romance, and pain. So...even if the men aren't perfectly portrayed...who cares? Why do men watch a show called GIRLS and complain that the men aren't completely round, dynamic characters, or at least as dynamic as they are? WHO CARES? Why is EVERYTHING about men? Can't a talented writer just write a great show from the perspective of young women, a group who RARELY gets an accurate voice? Don't we have enough variations of High Fidelity in the world?
    Ah. My head hurts. I got a little carried away. Sorry, it's a girl thing. ;)

  • Meredith

    Sam=Ray. Sorry, I was a bit hungover.

  • Cat Atomic

    Huh. I didn't know anything about the creator of this show when I watched 2 1/2 episodes last week-- and yet somehow I could still discern it was the product of a self-indulgent, pampered daddy's girl.

  • Graham Clark

    Exactly! We are simple, aren’t we? Give us a beer, a cheesesteak, and throw us a f*ck every once in a while, and we’re totally content. Our motivations are driven by women: Our natural state is vegetative, and only for the love of woman and sex are we driven toward success. Our relationships with each other are also very simple: We speak in a bro code; we never have falling outs, conflicts, or tension in our relationships with other men; and all over our communication is done via one-word text message grunts. This is true even of our hipster brethren, whose sensitivity and apathy are but disguises for our laziness. But take away our lady, and we’ll CREATE AN APP. We don’t have feelings, we only have different sizes of erections.

    Well, if Dustin Rowles likes Lena Dunham as much as he says he does, he should be happy, because his deluge of self pity leaves me with the warmest feelings I've ever had toward her work.

  • 400 k viewers, eh? Somebody please tell me: Shameless is fucking
    brilliant and pulls roughly 1 1/2 times the ratings Girls pulls
    plus it's got William H. Macy. So why does Girls get hammered into our heads on a continuous loop---even in the off season!!!!-- while Shameless is all but ignored?---even during the season run!!!

  • So, you're saying there's a chance?

    Or, perhaps, more on point. So a relatively self-absorbed woman writer treats characters of the opposite sex as relatively simple caricatures for the purposes of her story and message, or perhaps even because of a lack of authentic empathy?

    I guess you could just swap man for woman in that sentence and you'd describe 95% of male writers or filmmakers.

  • ,

    "penises with different flavors"

    Ladies take note: Mine can be chocolate and Cool Whip, if you like.

  • Mrs. Julien

    I just made an inappropriate sound at work.

  • I've only seen the first season. But when I think back on it I don't think of the guys much at all, which is kind of the point. The only thing that comes to mind is the guy her character fucks is kind of weird.

    If she has a point it's probably due to gendered reasons that make things more difficult for women and more simple for men. I'm not sure there is anything inherent in the complexity of the sexes. I'd guess it's more socially constructed.

    Also, yeah if you pushed me I would be annoyed at Dunham's privilege. But she's probably far from the worse case. And using your privilege to make a tv show is also far from the worse thing she could have done. I'm leaning toward thinking this criticism of her is gendered because I don't hear it directed toward many others nearly as often as it should be.

  • I know I'm not alone in thinking that the men on this show are by and far more interesting than the girls on this show.

  • Buck Forty

    You're a strange bird Dustin. You say 'Dunham is terrible at writing men' as if its never been said about male writers writing women before. Quick! - stop television until we can sort out who gets to write which genders!
    And when did Dunham refer to herself as the voice of a whole generation? If she did then yes, pile it on. But if she didn't and your upset by hyperbole heaped upon her by others then what do you want? A full page ad in Variety from Dunham stating that she is not he voice of a generation?

  • Gina

    I would like to point out that in the original interview, the context was more like "[The relationships of the main characters with] Men are, in some ways, simple, while their ability to get on the same page with each other [that is, other women], at the same time, is more of a challenge."

  • poopnado

    The two topics I try to avoid on the internet are gun control and Lena Dunham. Is there a way to screen all posts about her and her work from my Pajiba feed?

  • Jezzer

    If there were, I would have found it by now.

  • Mrs. Julien

    I, I, uh, looked up her father's art. Does anyone have a Clorox wipe? Actually, I need two. One for my eyes and one for my hard drive.

  • TheOriginalMRod

    Elayne Boosler said it best "I know what men want. Men want to be really, really close to someone who will leave them alone."

  • AngelenoEwok

    I think you're being way obtuse in your interpretation of that quote.

    One of the biggest things I'm struck by while watching the show is how *every* male character strongly reminds me of at least one real guy that I really knew in my early twenties.

  • AngelenoEwok

    "...its ability to shed light on the self-entitled obnoxiousness of Dunham’s generation."

    Pet peeve: Self-entitled is not a real term. It's an incorrect way of trying to describe someone as both "entitled," and "selfish" or "self-obsessed."

  • lowercase_ryan

    She really needs to see the post on Bruce Campbell.

  • e jerry powell

    Perhaps, as an example of a more-than-frighteningly-complicated man, I should introduce myself to Ms. Dunham. I don't want beer, a cheesesteak or the occasional fuck, and her brand of self-actualization makes me scoff.

  • Amanda

    "I'm sure, too, that someone as insightful and sophisticated as Dunham would afford m the same treatment, if we were worthy of it."

    I'm sorry, isn't that what ALL THE OTHER SHOWS are for? Because what other stories are being told by women, about women? The Mindy Project? Aaaaand? Even when we get good stories about women/stories with strong women told by men, they're still problamatic. Joss and his waif-fu, Doctor Who and it's pretty young women who just loooove the Doctor soooo much, Sherlock and goddamn naked Irene Adler, the list just goes on and on. So forgive me if I don't get too up in arms over a single sentence said by one person, because I've got the weight of an entire industry telling me womens' stories aren't worthwhile.

  • Guest

    This is weird logic. How does slandering men make up for past injustices towards women?

  • kirbyjay

    Revenge? Retribution? "I know you are but what am I?" " I'm rubber and you're glue...."

  • manting

    girls reminds me of Arrested Developement (wait for it) in that people are always telling me to watch it. I've seen both and Arrested Developement was a well written show full of talented actors; Girls is . . . written and full of the children of talented people. Talent is not genetically passed down, just ask Jason Connery. If it is passed down its usually watered down as well, just ask every actor with a famous parent ever.

  • Tinkerville

    "...in many ways for its ability to shed light on the self-entitled obnoxiousness of Dunham’s generation."

    There is so much wrong with this I don't even know where to start. By all means, paint all of us with the same brush. God knows it's not like we ever get sick of that in our daily lives.

  • Jo 'Mama' Besser

    I know where to start: 'self-entitled'.

  • Homestar

    You're purposefully misinterpreting her statement. She didn't mean that men in general are simple, she meant that "in some ways," it's easier for her female characters to have relationships with the men in their lives. She's talking about how friendship, at this point in her characters' lives, is more complicated than a romantic relationship. And that might be why you think the male characters are less fleshed out. But man, you are getting all pissy for nothing. Revealing some of your insecurity.

  • JVelcro

    Cry me a fucking river, man. IF it's true that her men are badly-written and one dimensional, which I am not on board with, then SO WHAT. After ages of simplistic, one-dimensional female characters whose lives are solely driven by men, you dudes can take your lumps.

  • Jezzer

    Yes, the most sane course of action would be to ignite a gender war over this idiot show.

  • What the hell is going on? What side of the looking glass am I on?

  • haha

    awwwww, do you not like our shoes? But they make your ass look SPECTACULAR!

  • kristin peterson

    "the voice of a generation" is what lena dunham's character, hannah horvath, aspires to be...maybe separate the two...also as an old bitch who loves the show, i think the male characters are quite genuine and don't forget judd apatow (owner of a penis) co-writes and advises on the show

  • QueeferSutherland

    But Dunham absolutely speaks through her character. She used this entire season to essentially troll her critics.
    There's too much pointless nudity? Fuck you, here's much more pointless nudity.
    There are no black people on the show? Here's a token black guy.
    The characters are whiny, unlikeable clowns? Now they're worse.
    Hannah isn't attractive? Well, I'll just have her hook up with Patrick Wilson.
    So while I agree that most times the creator's voice needs to be viewed separately from the character, in this case, Hannah is very clearly Dunham's mouthpiece. She can't play coy and have it both ways, trying to make points on her show then saying "Whoa whoa whoa, that's the CHARACTER talking, not me."

  • lowercase_ryan

    this

  • I think the upvote button takes the place of "this" nicely.

  • lowercase_ryan

    I opted for both.

  • QueeferSutherland

    MAYBE HE WANTED IT ON RECORD!!!

    /downvotes self

  • Slash

    You know, men say this shit about themselves all the time. So it's difficult to get all verklempt when a chick says it.

    Esp. when they usually say it in attempting to provide a contrast with women, who are supposedly so difficult to understand and get along with.

  • Michelle

    Agreed. So many guys I know are constantly pulling this. "Guys don't think this way, you need to relax", "You're too sensitive, [sexist derogatory comment] was just a JOKE, lighten up", "Girls are so overly emotional, [blank] happened to me and forgot about it in a day which is reason 9834793409832 why guys are better than girls" etc etc. Usually said tongue-in-cheek and with a modicum of self-awareness, but still, rude. Then they make a huge stink when something offends their delicate sensibilities for a change. Cue the tiny violin music and sarcastic slow clapping.

  • Slim

    Comcast, whatever they are calling themselves, gifted us lesser beings with HBO & Showtime shows last week, via the On Demand service. So we finally got to watch this Girls thingy ya'll have been going on about. Ironically, my 'simple' husband is the one that kept us going through Season 1. As mixed as my feelings are about the show, I can't fault Lena for something I have said to my husband (and other men) when I'm in the midst of over-analyzing some kind of emotional angst and he just can't muster up an opinion or thought about it, or even understanding my fuss. He doesn't usually take umbrage with that assessment. I don't think simple is meant in the historic sense. But then, the internet was built for taking things out of context and creating drama around them...

  • Anthony Hoffman

    I'm just drained talking, reading or listening about this fucking show. I quit watching halfway through this past season. Got my fill of peeing on the can scenes for eternity. I felt like I watched only 'cause critics and the writers on this site keep telling me to even though I took no enjoyment out of it. Yes. I get it. The titular "girls" are selfish, vapid, self-destructive fucktards. Great. Now women have there version of all the shitty "boys" TV shows and film to enjoy. Equality achieved!

  • kirbyjay

    Thought I'd give it a try seeing as it's the critics latest golden child. Watched the plain, chubby one who likes to disrobe, doing it doggystyle with the creepy guy with the weird nose.
    Seeee youuuuu laaaaaater GIRLS!

  • ERM

    Why do you keep throwing around that "voice of her generation" quote? It was incredibly obvious by the way Lena Dunham's character said that on 'Girls' ("high" on fake drugs, whining to manipulate her parents) that Dunham doesn't actually think that of herself.

  • the dude

    Hail to King Rowles, for he speaketh the truth of GOD!!!

  • CMooreVerdad

    She's the voice of a generation? Thanks be to yahweh I'm old and no longer hear in that pitch range.

  • yocean

    Glad you finally came around. We've been waiting for you. It's warm here and cookies are AMAZING ;)

  • BWeaves

    Which generation is she the voice of? I'm losing track of all you young-uns.

    Strangely enough, I don't remember my generation having a name.

  • Deidra

    There's a good chance it had one, and you subsequently forgot what it was.

  • BWeaves

    Very true, but lets test it. Take a think at people who were teenagers in the following decades.

    1950's The Beat Generation (For years I thought it was because Rock n' Roll had a beat, but I found out years later it was because the brats were just beat, just tired out from doing nothing.)

    1960's The Hippies. The Baby Boomers.

    1970's ? Me?

    1980's Gen X.

    1990's Gen Y.

    2000's The Millennials. (They really missed the boat here. They should have been Gen Y2K.)

  • F'mal DeHyde

    PS I think "beat" was for beatnik... black turtlenecks, little beards and bad poetry.

  • BWeaves

    Actually it was the other way around. The Beatniks were named after The Beat Generation by adding "nik," a Yiddish suffix that makes any word a person. Ex. Nogoodnik is a bad person.

  • F'mal DeHyde

    I was a teenager in the 70s, I think I'm on the tail end of the boomers. Of course they weren't called that till much later when everything had to have a title.

  • wonkeythemonkey

    I can't answer your question, but my timeline is slightly different than yours, mainly with regards to the 1980s and beyond.

    Generation X was really being thrown around in the very late 80s and early 1990s. I was class of 1999, and according to pretty much all sources, I was officially one of the last members of Gen X -- which was completely obvious bull to anyone that actually set foot in a high school in the late 1990s.

    I don't know anyone who self-identified as Generation Y, and it always felt more like an "after-the-fact" invention when people realized that kids my age didn't fit the description of Generation X after all.

    Anyway, a google search returned these birth-date cutoffs, but remember nothing is official with these made up terms:

    1927-1945 - Silent Generation or Traditionalists
    1946-1964 - Baby Boomers
    1965-1983 - Gen X or the Busters
    1984- 2002 - Gen Y or the Millennials
    2003- Current Gen Z or the Digital Generation

  • BWeaves

    Yeah, I know the timelines aren't exactly dead on the decades, but Gen X was never 1965 - 83. I don't remember ever hearing Busters (as post Boomers). I just don't remember every being called anything for the 1970's, either during or after.

  • AngelenoEwok

    I've always heard of Gen X as being people who came of age between the late 80's and late 90's. I'm on the cusp between X or Millennial, but I've always thought there was almost a generational gap between myself and my husband (he was born in '75, I was born in '83).

  • wsapnin

    Reflections:

    a) My estimation is that only "400,000 people in her demographic actually watch the show" is because they are the only ones that can afford HBO.

    2) When did Pajiba start bleeping pussies and cocks?

  • TheReinaG

    Especially when clearly it was meant in the British way, meaning sweet or gentle. It's a shame we had to edit that.

  • poopnado

    As in cat.

  • foolsage

    "Oh, Reggie. Fighting for your country— you’re such a pussy."

  • Stacey Bryan

    My eyes just rolled out of my head. She said men are simple "in some ways" she in no way said "Men are simple idiots." This does however prove an idea I have had for quite some time that men are super sensitive cry babies.

  • denesteak

    preach.

    They haven't developed the thick skin that women now have from decades of misogynistic bullshit thrown at us via media, family, workplace, life in general. To take an example, how many times have a female character been defined as the love from a man being her sole motivator in life?

  • QueeferSutherland

    Just as a social experiment, what to you think the reaction would be if Doug Ellin or Chuck Lorre called women "simple idiots," and, once a woman got mad about it and wrote a post, men commented that women need to tone it down and stop being crybabies? This site's server would melt into molten goo from the legions of raging commentors.

    I know (think) you're joking with the comment, but you can certainly see my point.

  • JJ

    That's a false assumption stuffed inside of a hypothetical wrapped in an incorrect supposition. Congratulations, you've invented the turducken's metaphorical red-headed stepsibling: the suppohypoption.

    (as quoted above, no one said "simple idiots," and people probably wouldn't like it. It wouldn't necessarily make it untrue or the comment any less funny for razzing Dustin)

  • EE

  • TherecanbeonlyoneAdmin

    No, not men, just Dustin. But then I've known him long enough to recognize when he's compensating for having to wear Dockers and duck shoes.

  • lowercase_ryan

    wtf are duck shoes?

  • F'mal DeHyde

    You don't get LL Bean catalogs, do you?

  • lowercase_ryan

    got it

  • pajiba

    OOF. This is why there's an OUCH in TOUCHE.

  • annalisa

    this is the best thing i have ever read. i now look forward to a day when someone smacks my argument down in such a way that i am able to use it.

  • Charlotte Preston

    Andrew. I see what you mean... Sherry`s story is nice... I just purchased a top of the range Fiat Multipla when I got my cheque for $8000 this past four weeks and-in excess of, $10,000 last month. it's by-far the best job I've ever had. I actually started 9-months ago and practically straight away began to bring home more than $77... per hour. I follow the details on this straightforward website, Big31.Com

  • Aidan Harr

    "They are slackers without ambition only capable of being driven by their love of a woman; they are closet date rapists;misogynists meatheads; or they are pu**ies."

    Admittedly, that describes at least 80% of the 20-something guys I've met in film school. I think Dunham writes fantastic male characters and that she's selling herself short here. They don't just the tropes listed above, either.
    If you ever get a chance, watch her behind-the-scene videos she does for each episode. She's capable of explaining her characters motivations in pretty fantastic detail.

  • QueeferSutherland

    "Admittedly, that describes at least 80% of the 20-something guys I've met in film school."
    You know who doesn't know people from film school? Almost everyone on earth.

  • Aidan Harr

    Haha, very true.

  • abell

    I think, perhaps, you're reading too much into a single sentence. Make no mistake, I don't like Dunham, or Girls, and don't watch/really care about the subject matter. But, reading the linked article, it seems that she's not interested in telling a story about men. As far as I can tell, as someone who doesn't watch the show, Dunham seems to throw men at her main characters to draw out a reaction from them. They're animated plot points, which, frankly, is fine. Sure, it would be nice if your male characters were fully realized, but, it would also be nice if your show didn't make me want to strangle the main characters anyway, so, eh.

    Sorry, let me try again. Treating men as one dimensional objects that the main characters bounce off of is not intrinsically bad. In the same way it's not bad when the genders are reversed. Particularly when the premise is pretty much just those main characters and how they relate to ...stuff... I'm just repeating myself, aren't I?

    Onelining it for you: ...eh

  • QueeferSutherland

    I am so tired of this woman, her troll-bait sitcom, and most of all, the disproportionate amount of attention she and her show receive compared to her talent. You want to slurp an HBO comedy? Here's Veep, a show 50 times funnier and more impressive than Girls can ever hope to be.

  • Jezzer

    THANK. YOU.

  • Ashley Avenger

    Wait, I'm confused. Okay, so maybe Lena Dunham is flawed in her thinking of male characters, but this article was written as if there have never been complex male characters in television shows. Is the point of this article to pick on Dunham, or what?

  • Jezzer

    "Pick on"? Really?

  • Bert_McGurt

    Bert no watch "Girls". Him have time full with explode things show, bang bang cop show, ha ha silly show, and man hit puck with stick show. Then meat fire, then sleep time. Also lift thing for pretty lady live at house.

  • kirbyjay

    No cock time? Poor Bert

  • Bert_McGurt

    Bert already mention lift heavy things.

  • stryker1121

    Phew and here I thought 'meat fire' meant something else.

  • Bert_Not_McGurt

    Sleep time Ernie rude. Make song. Make dance. Stupid Ernie. Want bottle cap. Shiny bottle cap. The Pigeon do. Kill Ernie. Meat fire Ernie.

  • Boothy K

    Me like Bert.

  • Guest

    Yeah, sorry. You can praise Girls all you want (although it sounds like the backlash has begun!) but there is no way you are going to tell meOMYGOD

  • ERM

    I think the backlash began before the first episode. This is the backlash to the backlash against the backlash. Or the 4th iteration of same.

  • Sara_Tonin00

    Nevermind that only 400,000 people in her target demo actually watch the show, “Girls,” Lena Dunham is the “voice of her generation,” which is something that people want to keep reminding us of.

    AAAAAAAAAGH. THIS IS AS BAD AS POSTING PICTURES OF STARLETS IN SLUTTY PHOTO SHOOTS AND COMPLAINING ABOUT SAID PHOTO SHOOTS. YOU AND ICED ESPRESSO HAVE DRIVEN ME TO ALL CAPS.

    Seriously, I get the snark, but stop throwing this phrase about even ironically for the love of all that is holy and un. My haters list would consist of people who promulgate things that are supposedly distasteful to them.

    Plus, I thought the Pajibans were of the mind that her men were actually better written characters than the women?

  • Jo 'Mama' Besser

    'Lena Dunham is the “voice of her generation,”
    which is something that people want to keep reminding us of.'

    Is one of those people named Dustin?

    Also: 500 Days Of Summer.

  • Wōđanaz Óðinn

    On behalf of those who have wronged you: *apologetic hug*

  • Sara_Tonin00

    You are surprisingly consoling for an Odin, and since I'm among the privileged of the world I can't honestly accept victim hugs..but I do like hugs in general so I'll take it.

  • Sara_Tonin00

    I can't even get into the classification of those male characters as "not genuine." Do you think you don't know any pussies or closet date-rapists? Surprise! Or guys dying to let their inner alpha-male out because they feel it's been stifled (which doesn't make them misogynist meatheads)? Dollars to doughnuts you do. (I sure as hell do. Judging by that rape post last week most of Pajiba does too.)

  • AngelenoEwok

    "Do you think you don't know any pussies or closet date-rapists? Surprise!" We need to sky-write this.

  • abell

    And I've known bimbos, manipulative controlling full on lady macbeths, and women who do that oscillating thing of creating problems for themselves and others, but, then falling into being super helpless, and defenselessness because suddenly everyone's angry at them and it's not their fault, etc. I can name names. But, if I wrote a show where every female character was like that, I'd get called out as a misogynist, and not without reason.

  • competitivenonfiction

    I think we need to collective;y realize that we need to look at a body of work to determine a storyteller's real perspective. If you wrote one show where the women weren't good people because they were the characters you needed to tell that story, its one thing (e.g. Knocked Up), but if your whole body of work represented women as terrible people or one-dimensional (e.g. anything by Michael Bay), that's something else entirely. Same with men. I don't think Dunham has come far enough in her career to determine this, though her asinine comment might suggest otherwise.

    Frankly I am constantly shocked that no one points out how horribly men are portrayed in the rom com genre. These guys have nothing interesting going for them aside from a job title (doctor! architect!) and their looks (dark hair, why always the dark hair). Half the time, they could be played by a saltine with a wig. And no one says anything.

  • Jo 'Mama' Besser

    I want to make that movie, but instead of fashion crackers the cast will consist of lampreys alone; it just makes more sense and I'm not going to engage the otters again.

  • competitivenonfiction

    I would watch that movie. But only if they're wearing wigs. Lampreys in wigs.

  • Jormis

    Blonde men are villains. That's the toupee trope.

  • Sara_Tonin00

    Orrrrr....you'd be called a multi-millionaire because your sitcom ran for 5 years.

    (but not to be flip, the characters she's writing aren't one dimensional, and I don't think should be reduced to those traits listed for them).

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