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Well F*ck Me Gently With A Chainsaw: The Ten Fictional Couples You Really Shouldn't Be Rooting For

By Joanna Robinson | Posted Under Seriously Random Lists | Comments (71)

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There are a lot of twisted things about FX’s “American Horror Story.” A lot. But one of the more twisted things the writers have done thus far is to make me care about the ghostly headcase Tate Langdon and his nascent little relationship with the girl next door (upstairs?) Violet Harmon. Even if you’re not watching this show (which you should, because it’s delightfully twisted and indulgent), the pattern will be familiar to you. Tate’s the warped yet oddly sympathetic character that you want so badly to be redeemed. Because with great psychosis comes great charisma. So maybe it’s messed up, maybe it’s weird, or maybe I just want to believe in the healing power of love, man. Here are ten fictional couples you really shouldn’t be rooting for (but I do anyway).

Sarah and Jareth in Labyrinth: Oh suuuuure he broke into her house and kidnapped her baby brother. And yes, fine, there is a significant age gap. And, okay, they have very different ideas of what to do with make-up (he would never use his lipstick to draw on cobblestones). But as long as she doesn’t want kids of her own (tight pants=low sperm count, ladies) and is down with being ruled and stuff, she could be Queen of The Muppets! And who doesn’t want that?
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Francis Dolarhyde and Reba McClane Red Dragon: The scenes between Francis and Reba were potent enough in the book, but when you have the magnetic Fiennes playing the character with nothing more disfiguring than a cleft lip and an unsightly brush cut, you definitely see what Reba sees in him. Even if she cannot, technically, well, see. And I wanted it to work out. And I was willing to forgive him *all* his trespasses if he wanted to live happily ever after with Emily Watson.
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J.D. and Veronica in Heathers: How can we not root for two outsiders finding each other? It’s a meeting of the minds! Snarkmates! Love at first slight! But then comes the murdering and more murdering and the truly disturbing car lighter burns. I think they were going for a bit of the J.D./Veronica vibe with the Sydney/Billy Loomis love story in Scream. But Skeet Ulrich instead of Christian Slater? That’s like bringing a dull, Johnny Depp-looking knife to a gun fight.
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Alice Morgan and John Luther in “Luther”: Alice Morgan is (Spoiler Alert) one crazy, f*cked up b*tch. I mean killing your parents is one thing, but brutalizing the family dog just to hide the evidence? That’s cold. But the cold, sociopathic Alice has a soft spot for John Luther (can we blame her?) and begs him to go away with her. And while we knew he’d take the rocky, high road (he loves a good trudge), how many of you were rooting for him to run off with her? Thought so.
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Tom Ripley and That Affable Bloke From “Coupling” and The Pirates Franchise in The Talented Mr. Ripley: Although Tom spends the first 3/4 of the movie lying and killing, there’s still something oddly sympathetic about him, yes? I mean, I think Dickie and Freddie sort of had it coming. And Tom’s hijinks made GOOP cry a lot. So he’s got that going for him. Which is nice. Anyway, when he meets the darling Peter Smith-Kingsley I sort of hoped those two crazy kids would make it work. It certainly would have spared us some unwelcome sequels.
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Buffy Summers and Spike in “Buffy The Vampire Slayer”: Every time someone on this site declares their love for Spike and Buffy someone in the comments point out what a truly terrible relationship these two had. The stalking, changing who you are for love, using someone for sex. The violence, the anger, the angst, the complete dysfunction. Those commenters are, well, they’re right. And yet, I don’t care. I unabashedly love Spike and his love for Buffy and while I think he can do better, who amongst us hasn’t pinned their hopes on the most impossible target?
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Hamlet and Ophelia in Hamlet: No matter what version, which actor, or what time period Hamlet is and always will be a dick. A conflicted, put-upon dick. But a dick nonetheless. And, forgive my crudeness, but Ophelia gets the full brunt of his dickitude. The feminist in me wants to tell her to stop being a doormat, to never listen to her father and to maybe give that nice Horatio* boy a chance. But I also want to believe that Hamlet’s affection for Ophelia could have saved him. Could have saved everyone. That she almost gets through to him. That he means it when he jumps into her grave. I shouldn’t care about them. About their love. But I do. I really do.
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Tara Knowles and Jax Teller in “Sons of Anarchy”: Given that “Sons of Anarchy” is somewhat of a modernization of Hamlet, this pairing flows nicely out of the last one. Unlike Ophelia, Tara is no fragile (mentally unstable), shrinking violet. And Jax Teller is far more violent and vicious than Hamlet ever was. But he also loves Tara and she loves him. And though being with each other only makes each of them more vulnerable (in the mortal sense), I would be heart broken if they were to part ways.
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Marla and The Narrator in Fight Club: REALLY OLD SPOILER ALERT! Our beloved, nebbishy, self-loathing narrator is, of course, also a greasy ab’d psychopath. So, yeah, well chosen Marla. I like to believe his feelings for Marla are what allow the Narrator to wriggle free from his psychotic break. But not, of course, before some killing and maiming. So why is the shot of them holding hands (to quote ze Bowie) “as the world falls down” so endearing. It can’t just be the grade school caliber f*cking. Can it?
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Erik Lensherr and Charles Xavier in X-Men: First Class: They’re not really a couple? The hell they’re not. And while Erik Lensherr is a xenophobic mass-murdering f*ckhead, I’d like to believe that if he had the right mutant to settle down with, it all could have turned out differently. It could have been cosy wooden chess by the fire instead of sterile plastic chess in an inventive prison. That’s what I choose to believe anyway. I believe in the healing power of gay mutant love. Deal with it.
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Joanna Robinson knows *Horatio is super gay for Hamlet. She also enjoyed the Ripley book sequels (the Ripliad!) but not the movies. Nope. Not one bit. You can tweet her twisted 140 character love poems here. Or email her the full batsh*t sonnet here.









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Comments

Pumpkin and Honey Bunny in Pulp Fiction.
Mickey and Mallory in Natural Born Killers.
Ben Hawkins and Sofie in Carnivàle.

Why is fucked up love so great?

Posted by: DarthBrookes at November 8, 2011 1:45 AM

I've noticed a few signs of my sad decline into old age, but one of the major ones was when I re-watched Buffy after many years and kind of thought Riley got the shaft.

I'd hated him so much! He'd been as boring as a cheese sandwich. Yet now all I could see was this solid, decent guy who (however dull) loved Buffy completely, and whose Corn Flakes were peed in by her every single day.

That said, I nominate Andie and Blaine from Pretty in Pink, because they only ended up together when Molly Ringwald objected to hooking up with Our Beloved Duckie, and also because there is no way in hell that Blaine/Anie nightmare could've gone the distance. It was over as soon as Blaine's parents threatened to cut him off, and you fucking know it.

Blaine/Andie is more of a third wife thing, really. Sorry for partying.

Posted by: Berva at November 8, 2011 1:45 AM

I always feel the EXACT same way with Talented Mr. Ripley!

Posted by: Theseus at November 8, 2011 1:49 AM

Joanna, you break my heart. I thought you were going to be an official voice of reason with the Buffy/Spike pairing, and then you hit me with that last sentence.

Posted by: Even Stevens at November 8, 2011 1:55 AM

I'm actually afraid to rewatch Buffy now, you guys. What If I find myself. . .ON TEAM RILEY? Booooooooo.

Posted by: Joanna Robinson at November 8, 2011 1:58 AM

The last pairing = yes. All the way yes. And it also included Fassbender. Joanna, you didn't let me down. XD

Posted by: duckandcover at November 8, 2011 2:01 AM

Horatio is super gay for Hamlet in that production especially. And I am totally gay for Horatio in that production. And the Ghost. And perhaps Claudius, just a little bit. Oh, and Reynaldo. Definitely Reynaldo.

Posted by: Jerry at November 8, 2011 2:30 AM

I just finished all the seasons of Buffy and I was literally saying out loud throughout season 5, "please be nice to him...". I totally and completely rooted for them. I'm fresh off my first viewing so they are my #1. I don't even see them as all that fucked up, especially by the end.
Spike and Buffy were mythic in so many ways.


I root for John Luther and Alice because despite being on opposite sides of the law there is that appealing and sexy understanding and acceptance of each others darkness. She's protected him in such sociopath ways and yet I root.

Jax and Tara are compelling, but Tara as an individual's lack of appeal ruins the couple rooting score for me.
I did feel a little twinge in my gut when I thought for a moment that he was screwing around with the porn star that he wound up beating down.
I may care for her/them more than I'm consciously aware of.

Posted by: K at November 8, 2011 2:31 AM

I haven't rewatched any Buffy in a long, loooong time, but just the very benefit of age and wisdom and reconsideration puts me on Team Riley.

I hated Riley when I was watching BTVS "contemporaneously" or whatever. HATED! Not hated like I really hated him, but as superasente said in another thread, he was like warm, flat soda. BLEAH. Patooie. Boring. Dull.

Now, though, he really was just a nice guy who loved Buffy and got shit on constantly and then almost had his heart un-broken but the helicopter was already in the air...

Posted by: MM at November 8, 2011 2:33 AM

Oh, and Sofie + Ben is a bit of an uncomfortable fit, since she wasn't really into the peen at the time, and the more likely peen to find its way into her was Jonesy's (and I am totally gay for Jonesy, by the way). Sofie being the Omega, daughter of the Avatar of Darkness, granddaughter of the Avatar of Light, hooking up with an Avatar of Light, who himself was son of an Avatar of Darkness (which I was always kind of iffy about, since the darkest thing he ever did was kill all those miners in Babylon, who really kind of had it coming anyway), is just, I dunno, awkward.

No more awkward that Spike and Buffy, I guess, but a lot grimier.

Posted by: Jerry at November 8, 2011 2:36 AM

With Spike and Buffy you could at least point to season 7 as a not so terrible aspect of their relationship. And points to Spike for not being so brooding while he is with Buffy, unlike Angel who was really annoying most of the time. Yeah Spike was crazy in the basement for a while. But give me batshit over mope.

Posted by: Dave at November 8, 2011 2:36 AM

How do psychologically crippled Bella and sparkly stalker Edward not make this list?
Wait, what's that, nobody here actually roots for them.

Posted by: Smokey at November 8, 2011 2:39 AM

Patrick Dewaere's Franck Poupart and Marie Trintignant's Mona (Mona Mona Mona) in Série Noire.

Soo-kang and Byeong-hee in Why Did You Come To My House?

Spike Spiegel and Faye Valentine in Cowboy Bebop

I utterly second Buffy/Spike, Ben/Sofie and Luther/Alice.

Posted by: romain at November 8, 2011 2:45 AM

Oh, and now that Joanna has pushed the button, I have to do it:

"If I got that money, I'd give it all to the poor. Every cent."
"You're beautiful."
"If you're going to openly be a bitch..."
"I'm sorry, it's just why can't we talk to different kinds of people?"
"Fuck me gently with a chainsaw. Do I look like Mother Teresa? If I did, I probably wouldn't mind talking to the Geek Squad."
"Did you see that? Heather Number One just looked right at me!"
"Doesn't it bother you that everyone in the school thinks you're a piranha?"
"Like I give a shit. They all want me as a friend or a fuck. I'm worshiped at Westerburg, and I'm only a junior."

Again, Heathers is probably the only movie I've seen more often than Steel Magnolias.

Posted by: Jerry at November 8, 2011 2:51 AM

Wow, Joanna forgot to censor herself today... in the headline! I like it!

Posted by: Uriah Creep at November 8, 2011 5:38 AM

Wow, Joanna forgot to censor herself today... in the headline! I like it!

I noticed that right away, too.

That. is. AWESOME.

I unabashedly love Spike and his love for Buffy and while I think he can do better...

That hurts a little, though.

Posted by: Rykker at November 8, 2011 6:55 AM

Maybe I'm forgetting something but I thought the whole frame of the Buffy/Spike relationship wasn't that he was changing himself for her as much as he was trying to change back, to the hopeless romantic and wannabe hero that he was before being twisted up by Darla and Angel.

It wasn't just a redemption story for him but a recovery one too, ya know, from being trapped in an volatile, emotionally abusive relationship for over a century.

As for SoA, I root for Jax and Tara to make it through to the end in one piece, but I feel like they've had "tragedy" painted on them from the beginning!

Posted by: MurderBot at November 8, 2011 6:56 AM

Oops. I meant Drusilla and Angel.

Posted by: MurderBot at November 8, 2011 6:58 AM

I love Pajiba for giving me an opportunity to talk Whedon shows so often.

I hated the Buffy and Spike pairing for a looong time. For me it was Angel and Buffy forever and ever. And then on the fourth or fifth rewatch of the series I slowly started to get it. Maybe it was my husband, who I finally got to watch it with (and he loved it, like I knew he would and that is why I married him!). Despite the dysfunction and the violence, etc. the moment in season 7 when Spike is just there for her really gets me. I've been that down in my life too and to have someone so unquestioningly on your side, no matter what, is worth a lot in these moments.So yeah, I still want her to marry Angel someday but I would be ok if it were Spike.

Oh an Tara and Jax better get to ride into the sunset together on his bike or there will hell to pay!

Posted by: Phedre at November 8, 2011 8:12 AM

Oh, I completely forgot to talk about my favourite pairing on this list. Magneto and Xavier have got to be the best couple ever (even if it's only my head). The chemistry between these two was downright filthy! If rooting for these two is wrong I don't ever want to be right!

Posted by: Phedre at November 8, 2011 8:16 AM

The Luther/Alice pairing works because you know that she's about two blocks down the path to hell ahead of him. They understand each other so well. But he'd stop being interesting to her if he wasn't conflicted about doing bad things, and it wouldn't last.

Posted by: Wednesday at November 8, 2011 8:21 AM

Someone who's seen it more often than I have please correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Spike try to rape Buffy at one point? I distinctly remember that happening. At that point all the forbidden love angles in the world couldn't make me want that relationship to happen.

If you think Spike is bad ass or cool based on the rest of the show that's fine, but she's the one who can do better, not him.

Posted by: Socrates_Johnson at November 8, 2011 8:36 AM

Socrates, you remember correctly. And you're kind of right, there is no real coming back from that. But within the confines of the show one could argue that he does not have a soul at that point in time. His actions are what then lead him to going trough a series of very painful trials to actually get a soul. Then he goes insane over what he has over a couple of lifetimes as a vampire.

Posted by: Phedre at November 8, 2011 8:43 AM

BUFFY NERD ALERT

Jo, I've rewatched the first 5 seasons in recent memory (which reminds me, I left off a couple eps into Season 6...gotta get back to that) and I still think Riley is Captain Cardboard. Does he get totally screwed in this situation? You bet your ass. He does love Buffy, and she does not ever love him back, because he's entirely too boring for her to ever really put that kind of passion into. I think he really wanted to be what was right for her, but it was never going to happen. So while I pity him, I still don't find him remotely attractive.

As to Spuffy...I have so many feelings. I think more than anyone else in the show, Spike gets the darkness in Buffy. While she's the hero, the savior, the good guy, she has a lot of power and a lot desires that are based in dark places and most people just don't see/get that about her. Spike, as a powerful being who also was clueless before having all these abilities thrust upon him, knows how easy it is to go to the dark places it can bring you. I think he keeps her grounded. Is a lot of their relationship totally fucked? Yes. The hate sex, the stalking, the shrine in his basement, the attempted rape - there's a lot wrong between them. But I think they get one another on a level Buffy doesn't have in her other relationships and THAT is what makes it so compelling. He wants to be a better man for her (hence the soul) and she has moments where she stops being such a moral, goody goody, hard ass when she's with him. Are they built for happily ever after? No. But I think their relationship is probably the most honest, and has the most interesting dynamics.

Posted by: KatSings at November 8, 2011 8:49 AM

Hamlet and Ophelia! My love for you grows.

I've never understood them, but now I feel like a bad feminist about it. I always assumed Ophelia wasn't worthy of Hamlet. He's a deep brooding, tortured soul and she has always seemed pretty empty to me. I mean why would anyone ever listen to Polonius?? I have to assume she is much cooler before the play starts to understand Hamlet's love.

Sorta related trufact - I went a local production of Hamlet this year where Horotio was played by a woman and she ROCKED it in a Starbuckian kind of way. She was, by far, the best part of the show. And Horotio is my fav so it was awesome to see an actress kill in that role.

Posted by: Sbrown at November 8, 2011 8:56 AM

*Horatio*

Twice.

Can't really pretend that's a typo...

(Nope! Just some awkward footnoting!--JR)

Posted by: Sbrown at November 8, 2011 8:57 AM

Heathcliff and Catherine. God, talk about dysfunction.

Bill and Sookie. Too rapey/mind controlley/paternalisticky for me.

Posted by: sunny at November 8, 2011 9:25 AM

I guess I can sort of see the no soul argument. After all, Angel/Angellus did all sorts of horrible things to her when he lost his soul, but seeing Spike and Buffy together after that just creeped me out every time. I just could never get over it, so I never understood how she could.

Posted by: Socrates_Johnson at November 8, 2011 9:30 AM

I'm surprised Veronica Mars and Logan Echolls haven't been mentioned. I rooted for them so damn hard from the very beginning and just knew they would've made it had VM not been cruelly ripped off the air mid-season. I needed closure with those two dammit! I'm sure Jason Dohring is brooding it up on some show I've never heard of and won't watch because, to me, he'll always be that sullen, hotel-residing rich boy who could never get over Veronica.

Posted by: lillie at November 8, 2011 9:33 AM

John Crichton and Aeryn Sun.

Posted by: Brian at November 8, 2011 9:46 AM

Heathcliff and Catherine.

This.

Posted by: Joanna Robinson at November 8, 2011 9:57 AM

YES to KatSings' whole entire second paragraph. That may be the best articulation I have ever seen of why I love them so much (and clearly, judging by the previous sentence, I am currently having difficulty with "articulate") despite all the reasons not to.

As for Heathcliff and Catherine, I rooted for them too. Rooted for them to die. So. I win!

Posted by: Anna von Beav at November 8, 2011 10:00 AM

@ Socrates_Johnson

Now that you mention Angel's split-personality problem it just reminds me how, by the end, Spike had become the more stable and reliable choice in that triangle.

Think about it;
Spike loses his soul - pines for Buffy - goes and gets his sole back.
Angel loses his soul - carves Buffy into pieces ... or to be more accurate, makes Buffy watch as he carves her friends into pieces.

Makes Angel the more tragic figure I guess, what with that gleefully homicidal monkey constantly on his back, but all things considered if I was Buffy's dad I wouldn't want her ... actually I wouldn't want anywhere near either of them! I'd probably prefer Riley in that context!

And speaking of Buffy's dad, where the hell was he? He wasn't dead I don't think, just off-camera somewhere, disinterested. Why was that not more of an issue?!

Posted by: MurderBot at November 8, 2011 10:05 AM

Ooooh...Buffy fight.

Bah ha ha.

No. I totally get the Riley hate. But I think he was boring/cardboardy on purpose. That was the whole point of his character. Buffy wanted normal, she got normal (sort of) and it was boring.

"I like my evil like I like my men. Evil." (or something like that.)

Then Riley turned out to be not so normal--but not even in a supernatural way.

Then Riley tries and fails to be "bad".

Plus Spike is just funny. And English.

Posted by: Candee at November 8, 2011 10:06 AM

I love Crichton and Aeryn together. But I am ok with Buffy and Spike so...

Posted by: karen at November 8, 2011 10:07 AM

It was in the earlier seasons, MurderBot. The Summers' were divorced. There was an episode in season ... 2? I want to say? where he was supposed to take her out for her birthday and didn't show, and later on, he was living in Spain with his mistress (I think when Buffy tried to get in touch with him after Joyce **SPOILER ALERT** died.

Posted by: Anna von Beav at November 8, 2011 10:09 AM

SPEAKING OF WHICH, GILES + JOYCE 5EVA!! (it's more than 4eva)

Posted by: Anna von Beav at November 8, 2011 10:15 AM

Yeah I think Buffy's Daddy Issues were pretty clear.

Posted by: I Need More Allowance at November 8, 2011 10:17 AM

Thanks Anna, I remember that her parents were divorced but I was just suddenly finding it very strange that after everything Buffy goes through during the course of the show, he doesn't bother to call or send a card (did anyone even mention if he came to her funeral, ya know, that time she died!) and nobody makes an issue of it!

I would've expected Giles to call the man a pillock on a semi-regular basis at least!

Posted by: MurderBot at November 8, 2011 10:24 AM

Yeah, Buffy's daddy issues are definitely addressed. And part of what is so hard for her in Normal Again is that she had both her parents alive, well, and together and wanting her to come home with them. That's what made her want to really question her reality. Hank actually shows up a couple of times early on, and does in fact call or send things every so often. They leave him offscreen when both Buffy and Joyce die, which I actually never noticed until you pointed it out! Though they bring him up a couple eps after Joyce's death when Dawn is at risk of being taken away from Buffy. "Where would I go?" "I don't know. Dad maybe. Or a foster home."

Posted by: KatSings at November 8, 2011 10:34 AM

Also? It's why Buffy asks Giles to walk her down the aisle in Something Blue. Sweet God I know this show too well...

Posted by: KatSings at November 8, 2011 10:36 AM

If Horatio is gay for Hamlet, that means that Opie is gay for Jax. Which opens up awesome possibilities. If Tara bites it tonight (please please please), Jax could turn to Opie (who has just chased off his wife, remember) in his grief. Then the two of them can take care of Clay together in a very violent and painful way, with massive amounts of blood. Then Jax can rule SAMCRO with Opie at his side, allowing for the rest of the Redwood Originals find true love. Chibs and Juice definitely belong together. I don't think Tig and Bobby would work (too volatile, and Tig would get mad when Bobby won the fight to be the top), so they probably need to find a couple of new prospects. Otto can patch in whoever he's got in prison.

Posted by: Three-nineteen at November 8, 2011 10:36 AM

I would watch the hell out of that show, Three-nineteen. I know you're kidding. But I'm not. Chibs and Juicy 5evah.

Posted by: I Need More Allowance at November 8, 2011 10:41 AM

If Gay Opie=Naked Opie with the velocity that STR8 Jax= Naked Jax, please sign me up for that Gay Math Class.

Posted by: Stacy D at November 8, 2011 10:52 AM

Tig and Bobby would be great but Tig is desperately in love with Gemma so Bobby is going to have to be lonely for a while. Sidenote: if so many people like SoA why were there only 2-3 comments in the reviews each week thereby forcing Dustin to abandon the show as a weekly feature? I need to know. Fingers crossed that tonight is Tara's night to put flowers in her hair and head down to the river.

Luther and Alice: my couple of the year. I loved when he told the little Welsh stalker from Skins (which is how I will always think of her) to contact Alice if she was ever in trouble.

Cathy and Heathcliff: the original rich girl drawn to the bad boy couple. Unbeatable.

Posted by: PaddyDog at November 8, 2011 11:02 AM

Gemma/Maureen. I'm just saying, even Queer as Folk had a token lesbian couple.

Posted by: I Need More Allowance at November 8, 2011 11:07 AM

Oh Joanna, I missed you so.

Posted by: chanohack at November 8, 2011 11:57 AM

Yes to JD and Veronica! She should have just let him blow the school up, so they could enjoy heaven prom together.

Also, thanks for the obligatory Fassbender mention, Joanna. I was counting on it to show up.

Posted by: Pat at November 8, 2011 11:59 AM

If I were a man I would be gay for Jax. Still won't watch SOA though.

Posted by: sunny at November 8, 2011 12:34 PM

"I believe in the healing power of gay mutant love." Holy hell, so do I.

Posted by: Sarah Carlson at November 8, 2011 12:42 PM

Hmm...ok Buffy/Spike. Sure. How about Angel and Cordy? Anyone else feel like the whole "she ascends into godhood" storyline was a cop-out? And I'm still pissed about the Fred and Wesley thing.

Posted by: NateS1973 at November 8, 2011 1:00 PM

Benny and Joon. I mean, come on, no good can come of that. She is demonstrably mentally ill, and he is out of touch with reality. Sure, sure, so EFFING adorable, but how does this play out? Is there a family plan at the institution?

Posted by: Lindsey with an 'e' at November 8, 2011 1:13 PM

I'm with Lillie; any mention of Logan Echolls warms the cockles of my heart. It warms the shit out of my cockles.

Also, FWIW, I never hated Riley or understood why others did. But I sure as hell loved Spike by the end.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at November 8, 2011 2:11 PM

Dammit those kids are going to make it...

Posted by: John W at November 8, 2011 2:44 PM

I knew when I saw the header photo for this article that my day would get better. And it did. I love what KatSings said about the Buffy/Spike dynamic. I loved that their relationship allowed Buffy to explore her darker side. And he was sexy without a shirt on, so, bonus.

Posted by: PerpetualIntern at November 8, 2011 2:55 PM

NateS1973, I'm with you. On both counts. Unrelated note to bring up since you referenced Angel? How much I hated everything to do with Connor.

Posted by: KatSings at November 8, 2011 3:42 PM

These Buffy comments? This is why I lurk on this site! Incidentally, when Buffy died (the second time), they avoided telling her Dad so Dawn could stay with Tara and Willow...

Posted by: sjbrindlecat at November 8, 2011 5:38 PM

Is it a meeting of Rape Apologists Anonymous or just the Spuffy fans glossing over the characters' history again? I find it so hard to tell.

Posted by: Craig at November 8, 2011 6:30 PM

NateS1973, I'm concurring with you as well. Cordy and Angel were such an enjoyable team, and I think they (Joss) just didn't know how to continue the fun.

Don't get me started on Fred.

Posted by: tawnia at November 8, 2011 7:45 PM

i love edward and bella i'm rootting for the actors that play them to get married for real!

Posted by: Utah Dynamo at November 8, 2011 8:35 PM

Prof X/Magneto was there from the very first x-men movie, long before First Class was a twinkle in anyone's eyes.

Thirding the mention of Veronica and Logan. Oh how I wanted those crazy kids to make it work.

Posted by: noo at November 8, 2011 8:57 PM

Hamlet is a d*ck and Ophelia's love for him is insane. If you don't believe me watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnvgq8STMGM

One of the funniest things I've ever seen, and so true. What are you doing Ophelia?

Posted by: Lori at November 8, 2011 9:48 PM

I hated Heathcliff and Catherine as well. They were both such horrible people. The only other couple I've hated as much were in Japanese film I saw. The guy rapes the girl, then she falls in love with him, at the end they both die horrible deaths. I actually cheered when they did.

Posted by: Vivienne at November 8, 2011 10:14 PM

My entire reaction to Catherine and Heathcliff when I tried to re-read Wuthering Heights this year: UGH! TEENAGERS! //throws book across room//

I watched some BtVS last night and I have many, many thoughts about the Spuffy thing. Many of them are summed up by this lyric from U2: Because when he hits you, you feel alive.

Some of my other Spuffy thoughts relate to the relationship being another of Whedon's examinations of women in abusive relationships, why they stay, and why their abusers may have a hold on them. The Spike thing was doomed not because of anyone's ensouledness, but because of the essential chaos junkie nature of each participant and how completely unhealthy their relationship is, even if they love each other. And NO MATTER how much they love each other. It's unhealthy and wrong.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at November 9, 2011 9:58 AM

"But Mrs. J, he's SOOOOOOO HAWT! Plus, he's got a SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUL nao!!!! So it's like the attempted rape didn't happen or didn't count or something! BUFFY AND SPIEK 4EVAH!!!!!11!"

For best effect, assume the Is are dotted with little hearts in that sentence.

Posted by: Craig at November 9, 2011 11:10 AM

I just fell in love with each and every one of you.

SPUFFY > Anguffy? Bangel? (? haha)
End of story.

No matter how effed up the Buffy/Spike relationship was, and it was (as many of you have cited) it was WAY more real then ANYTHING Buffy and Angel had.

The only good Angel was a souless Angel.
Spike however, always kicked ass!

F*ck sparkles. More Spike.

Posted by: layla at November 9, 2011 4:14 PM

I'm so late to the game but I just had to say I hate when people do Spike vs. Angel as though Angel is the "good" guy and Spike the bad. They're both bad in pretty much the same way. Their human names are even William and Liam--essentially the same name.

Angel was a much older man who lied about his violent, vicious past to his underage girlfriend until it was absolutely necessary to tell her the truth. Then the whole losing the soul after sex-he'd been living with his curse for like a hundred years. He should have known the ins and outs of it by then. It was irresponsible to get involved with her. He was bad news.

Buffy and Spike's relationship was a mutually abusive race to the bottom. Yes he worked to redeem himself and they became genuine friends by the end of the series, but it was all a bit too late. They couldn't go back to the start and become lovers again. It was tragic in a very realistic way.

I think fans of Buffy and Spike get so uppity about that, even though it was realistic, because Buffy and Angel never had a moment where she blamed him for losing his soul.Angel and Buffy were tragic in an unrealistic way. They were kept apart by fucking magic, not personality flaws and past transgressions.His soul came back and they were cool. Nothing was his fault. After like two episodes, everyone was pretty good with Angel and they probably shouldn't have been.

Posted by: ecp at November 11, 2011 12:13 AM

I never thought of it that way, and I must say this is nice.

Posted by: Ollie Parsons at November 12, 2011 1:20 AM

I came to love Riley in fanfiction. It made me warmer towards him in the show, I went back and found the whole 'she's peculiar' thing endearing, not to mention the punching Parker's lights out for treating her like a whore. But ack, he slept with Faith. Things could never be the same after that. Angel and Spike, for all their faults would never have been so easily fooled. Yeah yeah, they're vampires thems are the breaks.

Wow, feels like 2005 all over again.

Posted by: Kike at November 14, 2011 5:18 PM

Sometimes I question the internet and what is posted? Recently it seems to have become an epidemic, except that recently it seems to have become better. What do you think?

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