The 10 Best Television Speeches of the 21st Century

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The 10 Best Television Speeches of the 21st Century

By Dustin Rowles | Seriously Random Lists | June 26, 2012 | Comments ()

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With the debut of HBO's "Newsroom" this week, Aaron Sorkin has been in the news a lot, for better but mostly for worse. Regardless of what you think of "The Newsroom" (and our review will be along soon), it does remind us that Sorkin can be a masterful writer. He stands up on his soapbox and does a lot of speechifying, but at his best, he gives great speech, which is something of a missing art form on television. Long monologues can slow the action of a television show, so writers don't often indulge for fear of being called smug, sanctimonious, self-righteous, self-indulgent, or whatever other word or phrase has been directed at Aaron Sorkin this week. But the best speeches still have the power to rouse, to motivate, to impress, and to avenge. But mostly, they make us goose pimply.

This week, I collected maybe 25 of the television speeches since 2000, and I winnowed them down to ten. The one overriding criteria besides the time frame was this: Only one speech per show, which meant there's a lot of Sorkin, a lot of "The Wire," and quite a bit of "Friday Night Lights" sitting on the cutting room floor. Nevertheless, it feels like a strong list, though it's easy to argue that it's missing some Captain Adama, Tyrion, too much Bunk and McNulty, David Tennant, a really nice Pam Beasley monologue, a little Charlie Day, maybe some Jeff Winger, and even some Spike (sorry). It's the nature of a ten-best list: A lot gets left off, which gives plenty of opportunities to complain. I know how much you all love to complain, but trust me, some of the omissions hurt me more than they hurt you. (WHY WEREN'T YOUR SPEECHES LONGER, 10TH DOCTOR?)

I'll just say that making cuts in this one was a little more painful than most. In the end, after a lot of second-guessing, this is the ten-best list I arrived at (video embeds where available). Read it and weep.

10. The Pandorica Speech, "Doctor Who"

9. The Body, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer"

"But I don't understand! I don't understand how this all happens. How we go through this. I mean, I knew her, and then she's, there's just a body, and I don't understand why she just can't get back in it and not be dead anymore! It's stupid! It's mortal and stupid! And, and Xander's crying and not talking, and, and I was having fruit punch, and I thought, well Joyce will never have any more fruit punch, ever, and she'll never have eggs, or yawn or brush her hair, not ever, and no one will explain to me why. "

8. The Carousel , "Mad Men"

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7. Relationships, "Scrubs"

6. The Blowjob Monologue, "Deadwood"

5. The People You Work With "The Office (UK)"

"The people you work with are just people you were thrown together with. Y'know, you don't know them, it wasn't your choice. And yet you spend more time with them than you do your friends or your family. But probably all you've got in common is the fact that you walk round on the same bit of carpet for eight hours a day. And so, obviously, when someone comes in who you have a connection with -- yeah, and Dawn was a ray of sunshine in my life -- it can mean a lot. But if I'm really being honest, I never really thought it would have a happy ending. I don't know what a happy ending is. Life isn't about endings, is it? It's a series of moments. And um, if you turn the camera off, it's not an ending is it? I'm still here. My life is not over. Come back here in ten years. See how I'm doing then. 'Cause I could be married with children, you don't know. Life just goes on."

4. Half Measures, "Breaking Bad"

3. The Small, Wrinkled-Ass Paper Bag "The Wire"

2. We Will All Fall, "Friday Night Lights"

1. President Bartlett's Biblical Quotes, "West Wing"

5 Shows After Dark 6/26/12 | Nora Ephron 1941 - 2012: Congratulations on a Magnificent Life

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Comments Are Welcome, Bigots and Trolls Are Not

  • Maricela Tabitha

    Breaking Bad's is the best out of all the clips. Saul has a way of being so intimidating, it is really scary. Look at
    clips of breaking bad.

  • foolsage

    The Jeff Winger speech montage in "Paradigms of Human Memory" was pretty amazing.

    Also, I'd submit for your consideration Al Swearengen's discussions with the Chief's head in its box. E.g. "This fuckin’ place is gonna be a fuckin’ misery. Every fuckin’ one of them, every fuckin’ time I walk by, “Ooh, how could you? How could you?” With their big fuckin’ cow eyes. The entire fuckin’ gaggle of ‘em is gonna have to bleed and quit before we can even hope for peace. What’s the fuckin’ alternative? I ain’t fuckin’ killing her that sat nights with me sick and takin’ slaps to her mug that were some less than fuckin’ fair. I should have fuckin’ learned to use a gun, but I’m too fuckin’ entrenched in my ways. And you ain’t exactly the one to be levelin’ criticisms on the score of being slow to adapt. You fuckin’ people are the original slow fuckin’ learners!"

  • I like that Breaking Bad speech but I like this one better. Aaron Paul is a fucking beast.

  • Sara_Tonin00

    I seem to remember there's an excellent one from Coupling, right at the end when the baby's born. Such a sweet coda to a saucy show.

    And I'm little sad to see no Sports Night, because there were so many awesome speeches in that.

    I look forward to checking this list out when I'm not at work.

  • Irina

    You're wearing cardigans!

  • Green Lantern

    I'm just gonna throw in my love for Draper's "speech", which was more of a monologue, from "The Carousel". Plastic slide speed-loader as time machine was inspired IMHO.

  • Melody

    Dr. Cox's speech about relationships in one of my favorite scenes ever. I would have yelled loudly had you not included it.

    "And BAM! The shine is off the rose and that pretty girl you married is a maneater, and no I am not talking about the 'Woah there she comes' kind of maneater."

    I could make a Dr. Cox top ten list alone.

  • badkittyuno

    Jeremy's speech about hunting as a sport from one of the first episodes of Sports Night. And Isaac's response. And most of the rest of the episode. And series. (damn this *is* hard)

  • shiny daffodil

    I love you all.

  • ArroAmb

    All men. Shocking.

  • pentadactyl

    And again, I recommend Mags Bennett

  • Kim Stephens

    Anya, not so much with the boy parts.

  • Callun

    David Tennant had better speaches

  • pcloadletter

    The Carousel fucking floors me.

  • supermeg

    Bartlett at number 1, oh yes. best tv speech ever.

  • Artemis

    This is an impossible list to make, but it was an awfully good effort. I agree with the consensus that Two Cathedrals should be the Bartlett pick (and if not that, I also like the one about how futile proportionate responses are). And I don't know what you'd swap out for it, but Ben Linus' first big speech on LOST -- the one where he starts off as Henry Gale and then describes a long hypothetical about how he could/might have sent their friends off to an ambush -- absolutely sent chills running down my spine.

  • Johnnyseattle

    Ben Linus really does need a spot on this list. Although i'm not sure what to replace - my choice would be the Dr. Who bit, but then again I've never watched the show. There could definitely be a top50 from The Wire all by itself, and I knew the West Wing one would be here somewhere. Martin Sheen could make an instruction manual sound intense.

  • Honestly, I think you should make this a feature. Two amazing television/film speeches a week or something like that.

  • BierceAmbrose

    Yes, yes, yes. Do this.

  • jon29

    Lee Adama: "Did the defendant make mistakes? Sure he did, serious mistakes, but did
    he actually commit any crimes? Did he commit treason? No. It was an
    impossible situation. When the Cylons arrived what could he possibly do?
    What could anyone have done? I mean, ask yourself, what would you have
    done? What would you have done? If he had refused to surrender, the
    Cylons would've probably nuked the planet, right then and there. So did
    he appear to co-operate with the Cylons? Sure, so did hundreds of
    others. What's the difference between him and them? The President issued
    a blanket pardon. They were all forgiven, no questions asked. Colonel
    Tigh? Colonel Tigh used suicide bombers, killed dozens of people,
    forgiven. Lieutenant Agathon and chief Tyrol murdered an officer on the Pegasus,
    forgiven. The admiral? The admiral instituted a military coup d'etat
    against the President, forgiven. And me? Well, where do I begin? I shot
    down a civilian passenger ship, the Olympic Carrier, over a
    thousand people on board, forgiven. I raised my weapon to a superior
    officer, committed an act of mutiny, forgiven. And then on the very day
    when Baltar surrendered to those Cylons, I, as commander of Pegasus,
    jumped away! I left everybody on that planet, alone, undefended for
    months. I even tried to persuade the admiral never to return, to abandon
    you all there for good. If I'd had my way nobody would have made it off
    that planet. I'm the coward, I'm the traitor, I'm forgiven. I'd say
    we're very forgiving of mistakes. We make our own laws now, our own
    justice, and we've been pretty creative with ways to let people off the
    hook. For everything from theft to murder. And we've had to be, because
    we're not a civilization anymore, we are a gang, and we're on the run,
    and we have to fight to survive. We have to break rules, we have to bend
    laws, we have to improvise! But not this time, no, not this time, not
    for Gaius Baltar. No, you, you have to die! You have to die, because,
    well, because we don't like you very much. Because you're arrogant,
    because you're weak, because you're a coward, and we, the mob, want to
    throw you out the airlock because you didn't stand up to the Cylons and
    get yourself killed in the process! That's justice now! You should've
    been killed back on New Caprica, but since you had the temerity to live,
    we're going to execute you now. That's justice!"

  • John G.

    You didn't finish:

    This case... this case is built on emotion, on anger, bitterness, vengeance. But most of all, it is built on shame. It's about the shame of what we did to ourselves back on that planet. It's about the guilt of those of us who ran away. Who ran away. And we're trying to dump all that guilt and all that shame on one man and then flush him out the airlock, and hope that just gets rid of it all. So that we could live with ourselves. But that won't work. That won't work. That's not justice; not to me. Not to me.
  • special snowflake

    WHOO, Bravo, gents! I would have liked seeing you two talking the 'Battlestar' quotes at my local bar the other night

  • OH. And from Cox, I personally love the one where he lists all the things he doesn't care about:

    I suppose I could riff a list of things that I care as little about as
    our last week together. Lemme see, uhh... Low-carb diets. Michael Moore.
    The Republican National Convention. Kabbalah and all Kabbalah-related
    products. Hi-def TV, the Bush daughters, wireless hot spots, 'The O.C.',
    the U.N., recycling, getting Punk'd, Danny Gans, the Latin Grammys, the
    real Grammys. Jeff, that Wiggle who sleeps too darn much! The Yankees
    payroll, all the red states, all the blue states, every hybrid car,
    every talk show host! Everything on the planet, everything in the solar
    system, everything everything everything everything everything
    everything - eve - everything that exists - past, present and future, in
    all discovered and undiscovered dimensions. Oh! And Hugh Jackman."

  • pajiba

    That was my initial choice! And them I switched to the more emotionally affecting one.

  • Sara_Tonin00

    I think that's better. Lists are too easy.

  • Martin

    THIS would also have been an acceptable speech from the West Wing (hint: It ain't Bartlet)

  • Make it easy on yourself and do a separate post for the ones that didn't quite make it. A "Salon des Refuses" if you will.

    And those first two just made me break out into whoops at the screen. Coach just slays me. And I love the West Wing speech, obviously, but I also would've picked the Two Cathedrals Rant at God. I guess the one thing that keeps it from greatness is that no one is actually listening to it.

    I can't really think of any others I'd include, except maybe Ron Swanson's speech at the art opening:

    "Ok, everyone, shut up and look at me. Welcome to Visions of Nature. This room has several paintings in it. Some are big and some are small. People did them and they are here now. I believe that after this is over they will be hung in government buildings. Why the government is involved in an art show is beyond me. I also think it's pointless for a human to paint scenes of nature when they could just go outside and stand in it. Anyway, please do not misinterpret the fact that I am talking right now as genuine interest in art and attempt to discuss it with me further. End of speech."

  • BierceAmbrose

    I also would've picked the Two Cathedrals Rant at God. I guess the one

    thing that keeps it from greatness is that no one is actually listening
    to it.

    That is the most awesome part, for a once devout, maybe still devout, Catholic, yelling at god in god's own holy space and the language of the church?

    Who's listening? Bartlett is listening to himself commit blasphemy if he believes or apostasy if he does not, even mirroring Satan's own opposition to God, as a scholar like Bartlett would know. With his skill with language, such an echo is a choice, a deliberate affront, and a declaration of allegiance. Satan's fundamental affront is the audacity to judge god.

    And maybe they're both listening - god and his rebel son - or better, the conflicted heart of an ex-altar boy imagines the listening of an audience in which he no longer entirely believes, but can't quite disbelieve.

    "Let Bartlett be Bartlett", indeed. Unlike the fundamentalist bum-fight, this speech is Bartlett the near-genius intellectual, punching at his own weight vs. punching down.

  • norris

    Bartlett through out the series is a devout believer, that gives the speech it's merit. An atheist can't stand in a cathedral and yell at god, he is only yelling at an empty room. A catholic doing the same plus lighting up and butting out a cigarette is a great one two punch of anger and indifference towards power. Two Cathedrals is the better speech by far.

  • PaddyDog

    New site tag line.
    Pajiba: we never found a top ten list we couldn't disembowel in ten seconds

  • BierceAmbrose

    There can be only one ten.

  • Martin

    The fact that there's a spot reserved for a clip from freakin' SCRUBS close to invalidates the whole list.

    However, the rest of the list is pretty pitch perfect. Some Bartlet speech needed to be #1, and it may as well have been that one (though I could've gone with Two Cathedrals, "The Street of Heaven are Too Crowded with Angels", or "Joy Cometh in the Morning".

    Well done!

  • PyD

    I think you could have gone for something much more brutal and true to the human themes of The Wire -
    Bodie and McNulty just sitting hanging out quietly -
    two small men caught in the wheels of the socio-economic grinder.

    "I been doing this a long time. I ain't never said nothing to no cop...(sigh) I feel old. I been out there since I was 13. I ain't never fucked up a count, never stole off a package, never did some shit that I wasn't told to do, I been straight up. But what come back? Hmm? You think if I got jammed up on some shit, they'd be like "Aight, yeah. Bodie been there. Bodie hang tough. We got his pay lawyer, we got a bail." They want me to stand with them, right? But where the fuck they at when they supposed to be standing by us? I mean, when shit goes bad, and there's hell to pay, where they at? This game is rigged, man. We be like them little bitches on the chess board....Yo, I'm not snitching on none of my boys. Not my corner, and not no Barksdale people, or what's left of em. But Marlo, this nigga, and his kind, man, they gotta fall. They gotta....I'll do what I gotta. I don't give a fuck. Just don't ask me to live on my fucking knees, you know?"

  • RJ

    One of my favorites from "The Wire". Never thought I'd get weepy, but when Bodie got killed on his corner, a soldier to the end, I really felt it.

  • seanfast

    My vote for adding to this list is Ricky Gervais's speech in the finale/xmas-special of Extras, when he's on Big Brother, and he basically tells off the idea of reality tv, celebrity gossip rags, etc. Here's the speech if you can't find the video..

    "I’m just sick of these celebrities just living their life out in the open, why would you do that? It’s like these pop stars who choose the perfect moment to go into rehab; they call their publicist before they call a taxi. Then they come out and they do their second autobiography, this one’s called Love Me Or I’ll Kill Myself, oh kill yourself then. And the papers lap it up they follow us round and that makes people think we’re important and that makes us think we’re important. If they stopped following us around, taking pictures of us people wouldn’t take to the streets going, “Ooo quick, I need a picture of Cameron Diaz with a pimple,” they wouldn’t care, they’d get on with something else. They’d get on with their lives. You open the paper and you see a picture of Lindsay Lohan getting out of a car and the headline is, “Cover up Lindsay we can see your knickers.” Of course you can see her knickers, your photographer is lying in the road pointing his camera up her dress to see her knickers. You’re literally the gutter press. And fuck you, the makers of this show as well. You can’t wash your hands of this. You can’t keep going, “Oh, it’s exploitation but it’s what the public want.” No. The Victorian freak show never went away, now it’s called Big Brother or X Factor where, in the preliminary rounds, we wheel out the bewildered to be sniggered at by multi-millionaires. And fuck you for watching this at home. Shame on you. And shame on me. I’m the worst of all cause I’m one of these people that goes, “Ooo I’m an entertainer. It’s in my blood.” Yeah, it’s in my blood cause a real job’s too hard. I would have loved to have been a doctor, too hard, didn’t want to put the work in. Love to be a war hero, I’m too scared. So I go, “Oh it’s what I do.” And I have someone bollocked if my cappuccino’s cold or if they look at me the wrong way. Do you know what a friend of mine once said? They said I’ll never be happy because I’ll never be famous enough and they were right. And if you’re watching this I’m so sorry. You’re my best friend, you’re my only friend. And you never did anything wrong. It was everything else. I’ll never do that again, I’ll never treat you like that again. It’s eating me up, you asked me a stupid question once, and I could have answered it and I didn’t cause I was… I’ll answer it now, I’d be the penguin cause I could eat the flying fish. I know what you’re thinking, why doesn’t the fish fly away? Well they can’t really fly, they sort of glide and flap, they should be called glidey flappy fish. I’m so sorry."

  • Uncle Mikey

    Hell yes.

  • Ash

    damn, you beat me to it.
    my absolute favourite non-darren moment of extras.

  • John G.

    Now I have to re-watch Extras right now

  • Clancys_Daddy

    And we have a winner.

  • Guest

    Definitely this.

  • Tinkerville

    A thousand times yes. And when his manager thought he was talking about him that sent me from crying to laughing then back again.

  • seanfast

    i never thought ricky gervais could have made my eyes tear up

  • CrossDamon

    Nothing from BSG?

  • Martin

    I had the same thought. Adama should have replaced that nonsense from Dr. Cox.

  • DemonWaterPolo

    Great list but I don't see how We Will All Fall is not number one. Teary eyed now after watching it for at least the 100th time.

  • mona_sterling

    Just crawled out of my hole & started watching Friday Night Lights. I wholeheartedly agree. Also, if Matt Saracen dies or turns out to be a dick--nobody better tell me. He gives me the warm fuzzies.

  • dizzylucy

    Those are some good selections, but I'd have to swap something out for a Boyd Crowder sermon or campaign speech from Justified.

  • pentadactyl

    Mags Bennett's speech at the Black Pike community meeting.

  • QueeferSutherland

    Awesome list topic. Two Cathedrals would be my West Wing choice and Ben Linus got jobbed somewhere, but Mags getting biblical in The Spoil (probably the best episode Justifed has ever done) is the only egregious omission. Nicely done.

  • maggieblue

    I LOVE, love, LOVE the Anya speech about Buffy's mom. Makes me cry EVERY time.

  • KatSings

    I skipped over that entry, because I cannot hear/see/read that speech without crying like a small child. That episode came out around the same time that my friend's father was killed in a car accident, and I cannot divorce those two things in my head. It's one of the most perfect summations of why death is upsetting that has ever been recorded, and I don't care if that sounds overblown. It's beautiful.

  • debbye

    When a friend from college killed himself I didn't really do the hard crying until I realized that he was never gonna have fruit punch again.

  • This was probably the most emotionally powerful bit from the entire series for me.

  • growler

    I watch it every year on Mother's Day

  • The Minn

    Dr Cox should have been all 10. Why the man never won an Emmy is beyond me, seriously!

  • special snowflake

    I thought the exact same thing before finishing the first paragraph, Minn! Not the Emmy thing, they never gave 'Scrubs' any attention; but the "all 10" part, exactly!

  • jthomas666

    You're gonna go with THAT speech? The one that was basically cribbed off the internet (though Martin Sheen's delivery is great)?

    How 'bout his speech to God in "Two Cathedrals"? Much better, imo.

  • BierceAmbrose

    Oh, hell yes (and hell no, Dustin.)

    That speech wasn't flogging a dead horse. That speech was the verbal equivalent of a hyperactive college linebacker in a steroid & meth-induced rage clubbing a baby seal into fresh blubber tartar. We're talking torture porn not elegance.

    I'm looking for some anguish, some character development or revelation, some insight, some something. Hell, I'm all for "... fine hatreds and sheer love of pleasure." if it's well done. If it's about the speech, it's about the well done part.

    That speech was more contrived than a WWE event. That speech was pure Rocky/Chuck Norris post-pummeling righteous retribution, and just as contrived. If you want to go Bartlett, "Two Cathedrals" ain't bad. Or the one that starts with "What is the virtue of the proportional response." If you gotta go political or Sorkin (but I repeat myself) how about the Network call back that opens Studio 60, or any of 6 Matt Albie throw downs. Or, or, or ...

    Getting off on Your Hero(r)(c)(tm) flogging a defenseless caricature has more to do with the caricature, and that's just sucky. (To get off on the flogging of a caricature because Those People deserve it, (and don't count.) God I hate knowing that I have to spell it the hell out.) There's elevent-y billion better speeches, half of them by Sorkin.

    Go to a range and spray lead at a silhouette or Osama, Michelle Bachmann or David Koch if that's what you need, but don't go for lesser word-wizardry just because it's victim fits your biases, because that speech ain't even in the semi-finals.

  • Pajiba_Pragmatist

    Nope, sorry Bierce; you may have clever analogies and wordplay, but your premise that the Bartlett speech is bad because the foil is defenseless is weak. In fact, the foil represents the concept of a pharisee, the embodiment of power. What excites the viewer so much is watching someone who holds great power being reminded of the behaviors that they espouse but don't follow. Taking down powerful hypocrites, especially in the context of the Church is time honored.

    In fact, probably the most significant op-ed ever written, Jonathan Swift's A Modest Proposal uses some of the very same style cues as Sorkin did in the Bartlett speech.

    It's a well written, well delivered speech. Yes, I am sure that several people here feel a swell of joy seeing the falsely pious being hoist on their own words. But then again, so did Christ. In fact Sorkin could have probably just cribbed Matthew 6:1-6

    "Beware of practicing your piety before men in order to be seen by them; for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. Thus, when you give alms, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your alms may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you. And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by men. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

  • BierceAmbrose

    At the time of his pharasee take-down, Jesus of Nazareth was an itinerant preacher living on alms. The pharasees were a wealthy and connected arm of the established political power - kind of like a judiciary - in a vassal state to the largest and most organized empire in the world as they knew it. The homeless guy with a dozen or so friends confronts the mandarins in their shop. He was risking a thumping every time, as they were not, and if you read the rest of the tale, you'll see how that came out.

    Bartlett is the philosopher-king of a continent-spanning country with imperial influence around the globe, (at the time) the sole remaining military "super power" (Let's hope we learned how fleeting, limited, and just plain wrong that assessment was.), with an army, an internal police force, a bully pulpit, and a motivated & effective political party. Bartlett the king is slapping around someone with a radio show, in his palace, where she's a guest - foil not so much a pharisee.

    As I mentioned hereabouts the last time "Bartlett Slaps 'round the Rube" was celebrated - he's also theologically incorrect, as a Catholic with a minor in Theology from Notre Dame would know. "The Good News" brought by the carpenter is a new covenant. Radio-lady's appeals to old testament doctrine are wrong on that basis.

    I'm not a fan of "dueling smug hypocrisies." Snotty lady may be wrong, but Bartlett is knowingly and deliberately making a dishonest argument for rhetorical points of the worst kind - letting people feel smug. (I don't recall this one among the list of classic bad arguments. It should be - "Appeal to Smugness." Anybody got enough Latin to translate?)

    I thought we didn't like bullying, or should maybe the radio lady have cried on YouTube?

  • Pajiba_Pragmatist

    I'd argue that the New Covenant question is at the core of the takedown.

    But first, on the question of power, the fact that the radio lady does not feel the need to rise is her attempt to set the power equation in her favor. Bartlett enters, she perceives herself as above him, either morally or in actual power. And if you listen to talk radio, it's pretty clear that Rush and others do, in fact, see themselves as more powerful. They walk above us, and tell us how to behave.
    On to the New Covenant question. Nearly all the current morality debates happen in the context of old testament rules. For homosexuality, Leviticus is the most cited; if that fails, then quote Corinthians and Romans, where Paul goes off on one of his very old-testament style rants against everyone who sins.

    Instead, the radio right wingers embody the pharisee: they set rules and mete punishment. They lose track of Christ's most important guidance "love they neighbor" and instead try to mash-up Old testament rules with a pinch or two of Paul thrown in.

    Pharisees were powerful, but not the rulers of the land. Bartlett may be a king, but they are the moral authority. His speech is a reminder of the fallacy of the old covenant; that a series of rules set by men is doomed to failure.

    Therefore I do not concede your premise that radio lady is being bullied. Bartlett's opening teardown reflects that - he asks her to clarify her academic credentials because she is presenting herself as an authority, one who is above even good manners.

    And the "new covenant" defense isn't bulletproof. Paul's letters to the Corinthians "women can't speak in church or have head uncovered" sound very antediluvian to me. The good news is you can join with Thomas Jefferson and a host of other religious scholars in treating some of Paul's crazy rants as being strictly Paul's thoughts, and not guidance from Christ.

  • John G.

    Nicely Done!

  • jon29

    You get *all* the upvotes.

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