Pajiba

Mrs. , dozed off through the second half of "House" on Monday. She says she finds it boring now. I'm hanging on out of habit, just to see how big an asshole he can become. SPOILERS! House and Foreman conniving to screw over Wilson on Monday was pretty much pushing it. It was also pretty funny.

I'm sick and tired of these motherfucking assholes on my motherfucking Pajiba, with their shitty negative comments.

@Ughhh:
Yet you read the whole article and expended the energy to make that comment. What does that say about you?

Moving on...
I know Joanna picked "Sunny" because it's still in active production, but really, I only see those five as an outgrowth, if you will, of Jerry, George, Elaine, and Kramer (and, by association, Larry David).

I think the point about the television medium is a good one. While it's nice for the things you love to stick around, sometimes an unwillingness to change a winning formula/the desire to milk a concept for all it's worth (both figuratively and monetarily) can result in a completely stagnant story. It's one thing for legal and medical procedurals like the L&O franchise to retread the same story. Not for something that once was/aspires to be something more e.g. "House" cannot support immobility. We can't watch fool me once, House, shame one me. Fool me for eight seasons then, well, I'm done with you.

Sherlock is coming back??? HOORAY!!

I love The League, but mostly for the one liners. I would have murdered Ruxin in his sleep way back in college. I'm hoping that one day Andre will snap & take care of that asshole. Taco, on the other hand, Taco must live forever. I heart him so

Yeah but you forget men can get away with this. Women? Nope.

Seriously I'm not gay, I'm just THAT sexist.

Not pictured in "The League" picture are the biggest assholes of them all, Jenny and Rafi. Kevin is actually a pretty nice guy. Agree about Always Sunny though, what a bunch of dicks. But they're so fun to watch.

The cold detachment from humanity in general (nearly sociopathic, a theme explored VERY well in the new series) is what MAKES him a good detective.

Same could be said for House. Doesn't make them less dickish. Listen the Moffat series is amazing. It's done a great job staying close to the source material with sharp, clever modernizations. But anyway you slice it, Holmes' arrogant sociopathy is hard to handle in large doses. Dexter Morgan is a sociopath, but at least he has the decency to be anxious about it.

Who let this woman have a computer in the kitchen?

I enjoy Sunny, mostly, but when I'm not enjoying it, it's because every single character on that show is a stupid, mean-spirited, narcissistic asshole.

Not on this list are the eighthwits (halfwit is giving them too much credit) who make up the cast of Workaholics.

I love The League, but yeah, getting old.

When did the premise of so many shows become "everyone's an irretrievable idiot"?

I totally agree with your assessment, Joanna...but some, like House, Barney, and Winger bring other things I can appreciate despite douchbaggery: logic puzzles, humor, and Troybed, respectively.

Others, those from the League, Always Sunny, Mad Men, are just generally loathsome to me.

Walter White should be on this list.

Awww, damnit - American Horror Story just started showing here (UK) and now your spoilers slap me in the face.

The definiton of a sociopath is a person that manifests "an abnormal lack of empathy combined with strongly amoral conduct but masked by an ability to appear outwardly normal". This applies to Sherlock aswell as Dexter, so we can't really call them assholes since they can't relate to what we consider normal, they observe our behavior and try to replicate it in order to (somewhat) function in society. Others, like House or Jeff Winger, just don't care. Don Draper thinks he can get away with anything. My main issue here is that all of these guys KNOW they're asses, it's people like the stupid Glee teacher or McDreamy who actually believe they're the nice guys that really get to me.

Completely agree with Arran. I can't stand Ted. I don't care about him. And I'm losing interest in Barney and Robin too. So there's not much in HIMYM to stay for, really.

By the way, Jeff, I think your shirt's trying to get out of your pants.

[Spoooooooooooilers]

Okay - Dr. Ben Harmon of American Horror Story IS a jackass, but he wasn't the one who killed Hayden, it was Larry (Denis O'Hare's character). He didn't even bury her - that was Larry to (although he allowed it). You got the part right about him building the gazebo though.

[You're literally right, of course. This is a pet theory of mine that involves Denis O'Hare's character not really being real. It's not a perfect theory given that other characters (Violet) have seen him. But I'm still convinced he's some sort of psychotic projection.--JR]

I may not agree with everything on this list, but I have to agree with Joanna's preference for "Parks and Recreation" over "Community." It's a matter of taste I guess, but one I share. Oh and you can take this condescending sentiment:

It is moderately funny but largely over-rated by people who do not get Community so want something 'clever' of their own.

and shove it up your ass. I am, Abed-like, steeped in pop culture and get every reference on that show. To TV, film, etc. It's creative and clever as all hell. But, in my opinion, you gotta have something a little more than the clever to sustain me. You think Dan Harmon isn't pandering to 'shipper' nonsense with the Annie and Jeff stuff? Sure he's doing it ironically and with a layer of sneering, but he's still doing it. Bottomline, the season started with that lab episode where everyone was just terrible to each other and sure each episode seems to end with some sort of pat and ironic sitcommy resolution and loving embrace, but that's only after 20 minutes of these "friends" tearing each other down. Continually. The "pain and alienation" you talk about is constantly the result of their own selfish, dickish behavior.

"Parks and Recreation," on the other hand, manages to be sharp and clever while also portraying a more loving environment. It's funny without claws. And maybe you prefer the claws. Maybe you prefer snarling humor. Not me. This pseudo-cancellation has me not worried.

Ha, Cara beat me to the AHS comment. Interesting theory, though, JR!

I like some of the conversation in this thread about the difference between assholes who KNOW they are assholes and those who don't. Don Draper and House may be schmucks, but they OWN that title. Mr. Shu thinks he's God's gift to both teenagers and music and doesn't get at all that he's a total shit, and I find that much more grating.

That having been said, I still haven't gotten past the middle of season 2 of Mad Men, and House is something I'm watching more out of habit than desire anymore, so I guess I'm not really a good judge?

I think the issue with Jeff Winger is that the show changed a whole lot from the initial premise. He would have evolved as a character if the series had anything to do with the cocky lawyer who gets disbarred for buying his degree from Columbia. Instead, it's an ensemble comedy that is putting most of its weight on the three youngest players--Troy, Abed, and Annie. Shirley, Britta, and Jeff are being used as often as Piers was in Season 1. They might get an episode thrown at them once in a while, but the new roommates are the stars now.

Proof? Troy, Abed, and Annie have gotten the lion's share of character development since the series began. When they learn a lesson, it sticks, unlike the rest of the characters who hit the reset button and go right back to their pilot characters.

the new transported man, that's so funny because I consider Don's engagement to that secretary to be one of his douchier moves. He had been making progress, was in an emotionally mature relationship with a women. Had revealed some parts of his past to her. And then he shot that progress in the face. I think the mothering he's looking for in that pretty, wonky-toothed secretary isn't just for his kids. He wants to be coddled himself.

I wouldn't put Holmes and House in the same category. House is actively toxic to everyone he knows, Holmes is just insensitive and odd. House delights in hurting his one loyal friend and the woman he supposedly loved. It's gotten to the point that I get pissed off just seeing Hugh Laurie's photo for the show and I LOVE him in everything else. What started out as a funny and interesting character has turned into the biggest flaming asshole I've ever seen on TV. The last episode where he grabbed the bigger piece of sandwich, took a huge messy bite and then threw it back across the table was bad but combined with that stunt at the end made me want to see him dead. Who treats a friend that way? And what kind of an idiot is Wilson for calmly sitting down with his pizza when he found out he had been the butt of House's "joke" once more?

Sorry, this is a sore spot with me. I feel they've ruined the show with this shit.

as opposed to Mc Dreamy who is supposed to be likeable, but is also a tool...

I don't choose between Parks and Rec and Community because I think they're both good shows. That doesn't mean I like everyone on them, though, and I definitely don't like Jeff Winger. To me that chaos theory episode showed loud and clear that the rest of the group -- all of whom I like more than Winger (well, except Pierce) -- would all be a lot happier without him in their lives. And I don't think that's the message the writers intended.

What is a "yobogoya" and why is it suddenly a major part of the Pajiba lexicon?

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at November 16, 2011 9:09 AM

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I second that query

Barney is a horrible horrible human being. This was fine when he was a cartoon, but now they're trying to make him into a person whose feelings we care about? I mean seriously, the guy should be in prison. He's a guy in his mid thirties who tricks stupid and/or emotionally vulnerable 22-year-olds into sleeping with him. And is proud of it. He's a corporate stooge. He actively tries to sabotage other peoples' happy relationships. He slept with his best friend's ex-girlfriend. And people are pissed at Robin for not falling into his arms? Man, folks will forgive a charming man for pretty much anything.

I agree with becks - there's confusion here between characters who are assholes and characters who are annoying, stupid and lame and their shows would be better off without them. I thought Dustin was talking about the latter. This post is talking about the former.

I tried watching It's Always Sunny again yesterday - a rerun that apparently isn't from this season (the guy who gained weight hadn't gained weight yet). I just don't think it's funny. The only part I laughed at was a guest - actually, the guy who played Elliot's fiance on Scrubs (I'm a lizard!). Being a dickish asshole is fine with me as long as it's entertaining. Which is why I think I can finally drop House.

Schmidt is a tool, yes, but he's kind of an adorable tool due to his total cluelessness and almost innocence about it. I'll take Schmidt crestfallenly putting yet another dollar in the douchebag jar any day over Nick and his belligerence. Also, how weird is it that I absolutely love a show centered around Manic Dream Pixie Girl?

And really, JR? It's a show about a family being haunted by the previous tenants of their house and you want to get all psychomalogical on that douchebag? Nah. Larry is totally a ghost, not a part of the Dr's questionable psyche.

Then why can Larry go places others can't? Why is he free to roam around? Because he wasn't killed at the Murder House? Then why can Ben see him? Can Ben see *all* the ghosts? WHO SEES THE GHOSTS AND WHEN? WHAT ARE THE RULES, I DON'T UNDERSTAND THEM.

Ahem, hey folks, tune into the "American Horror Story" recap tomorrow. It's sure to be fun.

Awful Joanna, just awful. I’m baffled. It doesn’t make sense - kicking “Community” when its down is bad enough, but hating on the “It’s Always Sunny” cast? Here...on Pajiba?

What in the world are you doing writing for this site?

Now NittyGritty, I disagree with Joanna's opinion on Community and Sunny also but I think she's pretty much the perfect writer for the site.

Pajiba isn't simply like people expressing like opinions. It's crazy people who express their rabid opinions in the same manner. Joanna is a clever, stubborn contrarian with a nerdy twist and I think we can all agree that she falls directly in line with the Pajiba vibe. Viva Joanna.

See, I adore the sweetness of Parks and Rec, but I'll also always love It's Always Sunny and The League. They're very different types of comedy, but one thing that Parks and Rec and The League have in common is that most of their particularly dickish behavior doesn't really have a lasting impact. Usually by episode's end, everyone still gets along, or forgets about what the problem was.

Now, the characters on The Office are dicks that I truly can't stand.

Other people have said it better than I could (namely becks, but I have to say I'm really disappointed, Joanna. I thought we were spirit twins. I love Ben and Leslie as much as the next person but it really seems like you want every show to have these sweet, twee, quite frankly fantasy characters.

Mc.Dreamy: asshole who is supposed to be likeable but isn't.
Will Schuesterwhatever: asshole who is supposed to be likeable but isn't.
House: asshole who used to be funny but has clearly worn on people's patience (I don't watch the show anymore, but that's the impression I get)
Ben Harmon: don't watch the show so no opinion.

EVERYONE ELSE ON THIS LIST: SUPPOSED TO BE THAT WAY. They get their schadenfreude on a consistent basis and many of them grow emotionally from season to season. If every one of these characters were as sweet as Ben and Leslie we would all die of boredom.

In the picture above, Don Draper looks like he doesn't give a F about being included on this list.

A few episodes in and [SPOILER] he has already murdered his young...

Err..I don't remember him holding the spade when it landed on Kate Mara's face.

But yeah, he needs to die considering how much of a real, to quote Violet, shithead he is for going back after the initial pile driving to impregnate her.

Maybe the rubber guy can drive his head up Ben's ass or something.

Ahhhh, The Cumberbatch,
His face makes me happy.

I would be happy to see him on my tv every week, I don't know cooking or showing me what's in his closet or reading The Hobbit to me, but I think that I would tire of Sherlock (like I have House) if he was there each week.

blorft, I miss Deputy Leo so much. I also call him Deputy Mumblemouth.

That actor was also on Happy Endings! If you're into that.

The thing about It's Always Sunny is that the protagonists are the series main villains, they were never supposed to be anything more than the bottom 1% of society, and the show never portrays them as anything more than the scum they are.

I understand hating characters who are dipshits yet are still supposed to elicit your sympathies, it's why I gave up watching Glee, but the Philly crew was never supposed to be seen as even slightly heroic. Why bitch about it?

The "pain and alienation" you talk about is constantly the result of their own selfish, dickish behavior.
Yeah. Community is full of selfish people who want to do the right thing. They fail often and do so spectacularly. I guess I really connect with that because I identify with the actions of most of the characters most of the time. They're a bunch of losers and for a lot of us faithful fans the show and its characters mean a lot precisely because of their failings. Pierce's addiction and near collapse more than hit home for me. The show can be cartoonish at times but for me I can't help but be emotionally invested in the characters who I believe transcend the veneer of cartoon.

Some Community fans (like myself) are just bitter because of P&R's popularity. Yeah, I know unfair but I don't give a shit. "Leslie and Ben" together are fake and cloying and it nearly ruined the season for me.

Parks and Recreation is clever but it lacks ambition. Community is hit-or-miss but when it hits is pretty much the best fucking show in television. So the constant neglect by the um, 'general populace' to embrace it sucks and now it's near cancellation. I've always thought that Community was for 'losers' just like most of its characters. It was 'our' show.

Eh, none of this matters. I'm sure P&R means just as much to its fans. I'm just bitter and rambling and not making much sense....Awaiting near inevitable cancellation sucks.

@Devil Child: Indeed! A huge factor that makes Always Sunny so funny is that these are clearly the literal worst people alive, but they have no idea that they are bad people. Watching them crash into their own sociopathy doesn't get old for me because the actors are all so damn funny. To be fair, Dennis does occasionally say things that make even me wince a bit, but he almost always gets his comeuppance.

I understand that this is not a show for everyone, however. I find that most people I've introduced it to have either dissolved into hysterics or else failed to laugh even once. It is a very particular sort of humor. Can't dispute that they're all assholes, but I don't think they belong on this list.

I have to disagree on Community too. Everyone (except Troy and Abed) are dicks in their own way, but like they've gone through on the show, they stick together and really kind of love each other cause they're like a family. They ultimately look out for each other because no one else will.

And Socrates is right - compared to the Jeff Winger in the Pilot, Jeff Winger NOW has gone through a LOT of development. He has people he cares about, protects, and has silly fun with, even if he's a dick about it sometimes. He planned a whole Pulp Fiction birthday party for Abed, COMPLETE with what they thought was the actual movie briefcase. Assholes don't do that kind of thing.

and @BananaStand - Buster and Oscar are pretty universally non-dickish.

I like Jeff Winger. He's Walter Burns in His Girl Friday. Sarcastic and witty, easily bored, with an intriguing back story. He could only fall for a feisty woman who is funnier and smarter than him. He doesn't let bigotry slide. And he looks amazing in a tight long-sleeved shirt.

I LOVE that type of man.

Interesting list and plenty I agree with. I respectfully disagree on Sherlock though. The long hiatus has been annoying, and I wish there were more episodes. Sherlock Holmes--in any incarnation--may be a bit of a jerk, but I think he's an endearing one.

Most of said sweetness comes from Leslie. The woman must have sugar in her sweat instead of salt, though that may have as much to do with her diet as anything. Leslie, Ben, Jerry, and Andy are incredibly sweet characters. Ann probably qualifies as a sweet character too.

Andy, especially, shows how some of these characters can change. He was a complete dick in the first season, mostly due to his obliviousness. I can see a lot of that potential in April and, to a lesser extent, Tom. When they're given something or someone to care about, their sweeter inner nature has a chance to shine through. April, who usually avoids doing anything at all costs, goes out of her way to make Andy happy and always seems to show up whenever Leslie needs a helping hand. Tom always wants to do the right thing, but has a hard time balancing that with his own egotism and obliviousness. In a lot of ways, he's like Andy used to be.

Donna and Ron are kind of neutral to me. Donna is a little bit too one-note to discern much about her character, but Ron, despite his tough exterior, is incredibly sweet to Leslie and seems to get enjoyment out of helping Ann, April, or anyone else as long as no perkiness gets in the way. (Not a problem in April's case obviously.)

Chris is a jerk (though again, an oblivious one) and even he got a chance to self-reflect and realize that he's not perfect all the time.

OK I meandered a bit there, but back the initial point. When Leslie Knope is your main character and most of the others are seen primarily through her eyes, it's hard not to see the show as a whole as sweet.

PS. Sweet Dee is a bigger c*** than April could ever hope to be.

Pretty sure you are supposed to hate everyone on Sunny. They are horrible, horrible people, who are also fantastically funny.