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Hey Girls, Don't Like Icky Sword Fighting? The NYT Says There's Enough Sex In "Game Of Thrones" To Keep Our Teeny Female Brains Entertained.

By Joanna Robinson | Posted Under Miscellaneous | Comments (130)



1298863526_470x353_game-of-thrones-picture.jpeg

Reading is, like, so gross in general, right? All that squinting and forming the words aloud has GOT to be giving me wrinkles. So, duh, of COURSE I didn’t read “Game of Thrones,” or any of those other silly fantasy novels. Have you seen them? They’re so…bulky, how would they ever fit in my cute Chanel clutch? Plus, there is NOTHING in there that is going to teach me to be a skinny bitch, explain why men insist on speaking Martian to me all the time, or outline twelve days to a GOOP-ier me.

So, like, you can imagine my total shock and horror when Brad (cute Brad from Accounting, not pervy Brad from the Mail Room) asked me to come over and watch this “Game of Thrones” thingie on HBO with him this Sunday. Like, what if I fell asleep, you guys? Swords and made-up languages and, like, weird creatures that are NOT hot vampires that sparkle? Gag me with my Pinkberry spoon. But then, get this, I was reading the New York Times (like, TOTALLY, by accident, you guys, the nail salon was out of Cosmo and Glamour) and this chick says that there’s, like, a lot of SEX in this Throney show. SQUEEEEE!!! Okay, I don’t want to make you read the whole article (wrinkles, right?), so here are the important, steamy, sexy bits.

Like “The Tudors” and “The Borgias” on Showtime and the “Spartacus” series on Starz, “Game of Thrones,” is a costume-drama sexual hopscotch, even if it is more sophisticated than its predecessors. It says something about current American attitudes toward sex that with the exception of the lurid and awful “Californication,” nearly all eroticism on television is past tense. The imagined historical universe of “Game of Thrones” gives license for unhindered bed-jumping — here sibling intimacy is hardly confined to emotional exchange.

The true perversion, though, is the sense you get that all of this illicitness has been tossed in as a little something for the ladies, out of a justifiable fear, perhaps, that no woman alive would watch otherwise. While I do not doubt that there are women in the world who read books like Mr. Martin’s, I can honestly say that I have never met a single woman who has stood up in indignation at her book club and refused to read the latest from Lorrie Moore unless everyone agreed to “The Hobbit” first. “Game of Thrones” is boy fiction patronizingly turned out to reach the population’s other half.

Like, OMG! It’s going to be like “Sex in the Ancient Medieval Possibly Made-Up City,” you guys!!!! SO stoked. Can’t wait.

Joanna Robinson has a headache now. F*ck you, Ginia Bellafante, way to make generalizations about your gender. Enjoy your book club, I’m sure the conversations are f*cking dazzling. F*ck you, NYT, for assigning the absolute INCORRECT person to review this show. This “review” is almost as bad as that tragically incomprehensible one from Slate. But at least this one was written in English.









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Comments

And that's a load of horseshit. The female characters in GoT are some of the more varied, diverse and interesting characters in any book series, fantasy or otherwise. There's heroines (Arya, Daenarys), warriors (Brienne), manipulators (Cersei), weaklings who grow strong (Daenarys, Sansa), mothers (Catelyn), etc. And the thing about them is -- they don't fit into a nice and neat stereotype. There will be moments when you hate Catelyn and moments when you side with Cersei.

As for the sexuality of the series, I think Martin makes salient points about the nature of the medieval/fantasy world he works in -- where political alliances are sealed by copulation between the nobles and to have bastards is seen as a breaking of oaths, the power that the women of Westeros have is greater than we perceive.

Posted by: Fredo at April 15, 2011 12:12 PM

Wow, that was the dumbest thing I had ever read, until I saw the Slate article. Good to know the proud tradition of insulting an entire genre to put a reviewer's attitude about one work in that genre in its proper context is alive and well.

Posted by: Todd at April 15, 2011 12:13 PM

Oh, all the lesbionic fanservice was for ME? Damn, I better get bean-flicking!

Posted by: Pippa at April 15, 2011 12:19 PM

That Slate article is one of the worst thing I've ever read. The NYT article isn't a hell of a lot better. For the love of R'hllor, can someone just tell me, objectively, if it's a good show or not?

Is that so god damn difficult?

Posted by: Exploding Head Syndrome at April 15, 2011 12:25 PM

It's sad to see how prevalent Geekism is still in our society.

You see, this is why we react so when our good buddy Dustin kids around and mocks us. We've been suffering the slings and arrows from Anti-Geekites, like that "cool chick" Ginia Bellafante and the "cool dude" from Slate, forever.

To quote Lancelot from Excalibur: "It is the old wound, my king. It has never healed."

Posted by: Forbiddendonut at April 15, 2011 12:27 PM

Wow, I'm posting twice in one day. This is a first. Seriously, worst article ever. I might have to go up to her office and smack that woman in the face.

Posted by: Jen at April 15, 2011 12:30 PM

I will excuse both articles in this regard: they are working exclusively from the starting point of the story. They don't know the twists and turns that Martin puts his characters (male and female alike) through in his books. Therefore, it's easy to jump to the stereotypical conclusions.

That said, it sounds like they went looking for something and found it and that's all they cared for.

Posted by: Fredo at April 15, 2011 12:31 PM

Fuck. That. Shit.

Posted by: Scully at April 15, 2011 12:39 PM

I am proud to say that I've never read Lorrie Moore, in the context of a Book Club or anywhere else. (Just not my thing.) I love Game of Thrones. I am Woman, Hear Me Roar.

Winter is coming, bitches.

Posted by: miss kate at April 15, 2011 12:41 PM

Dear World,

Women are not the Borg. We do not share a hive mind OR a single personality. This is going to come as a terrible shock to some of you, but we all like different things. That means a lot of us really like action and fighting and swordplay and intrigue and politics and fantasy, even if there isn't a shred of romance in it - sometimes BECAUSE there isn't a shred of romance in it. Others of us enjoy romance and love and tales of human relationships and true love overcoming odds. Others of us like nature documentaries. Others enjoy serious foreign films about important issues where everyone goes to bed unhappy. And others... well, you get the idea.

Anyway, the point is that there is nothing that "women" like because we are all individuals with our own tastes and beliefs (SHOCKING!). And furthermore, most people surround themselves with like-minded individuals, so if one stupid bitch thinks that just because none of HER friends would ever read fantasy, that means no WOMEN would, well... that just goes to show you that all women are different, because some of us are clearly idiots.

I look forward to lots of swordplay and buttkickery. I don't watch all those other shows because I feel like there is way too much sex and not enough anything else. I am still female last I checked.

Love,
Nat
Who hates sex in movies because it takes valuable time away from people killing each other in flashy physics-defying ways, and knows a lot of women who feel the same way, but does not judge her brethren (sistren?) who feel otherwise and does not extrapolate her personal social circle's preferences into a representation of all womankind.

PS - Dear men, by extension, please stop spending money on "what women want" books and seminars. We all want something different, so it's a lot cheaper and more productive to just ask us on an individual basis.

Posted by: Nat Kittyface at April 15, 2011 12:41 PM

Wait. Women read books? I mean like real BOOK books? This changes so much.

*Throws oven mitt and frying pan anniversary gift in trash*

Guess she won't want that now.

Posted by: Paultera at April 15, 2011 12:49 PM

In her defense, I'm sure that this fuckwad lady just hangs out with other fuckwad ladies who wouldn't know a good book if it smashed them in the face. Your world view is pretty narrow when you just hang out with fuckwads who are exactly like you.

Posted by: Figgy at April 15, 2011 12:51 PM

Well holy shit. I better tell my fiance she should stop reading all my boy books, and quick!

Posted by: Seany D at April 15, 2011 12:51 PM

I won’t watch it because every time I see “Thrones” in want to say “Thorns.” It’s so fucking pretentious; I refuse to play their game.

Posted by: Pookie at April 15, 2011 12:54 PM

My mind, she be blown.. a "journalist" who still thinks along such narrow gender lines..

Who knew I was only supposed to like books small enough to fit in a Chanel!

Posted by: jmd at April 15, 2011 12:55 PM

while no one likes the stereotyping department, is it a stretch to say the fantasy market is by and large male? is it a stretch to say the "romance" novel market is by and large female? is it then a stretch to think movie and tv producers might draw the conclusion that by making romance and sex more prominent they might increase their viewership among the demographic least likely to be interested in fantasy?

Posted by: idleprimate at April 15, 2011 12:58 PM

Raff the Sweetling, Biter, Rorge, The Tickler and the Hound. Ser Gregor, Ser Ilyn, Ser Jaime, King Joffrey, Queen Cersei. Ginia Bellafonte.

Posted by: Arya at April 15, 2011 12:58 PM

Nat,

I am one of those women. I like things that assplode, I like blood and guts, sci-fi, fighting, epic journeys, and lots and lots of violence. I do NOT like wimpy, weenie, whiny women. I have never seen a single second of "Sex in the City," nor do I ever plan to. I have never read anything about a "GOOP-ier me" and would like to punch Gwynnie-poo in her skinny face. I love anything having to do with the Arthurian legend or anything similar. I have read the LoTR trilogy, The Hobbit, Stephen King's oevre, Christopher Moore and basically anything that requires I have more than a single brain-cell.

I would like to go Eowyn on this chick and the Slate dude.

Posted by: dammitjanet at April 15, 2011 12:59 PM

The sex was tossed in FOR THE LADIES?

Game of Thrones is about politics. Everybody, except the very powerless, is scheming to acquire more power or at a minimum, hang on to the bit of power they've got. Given it's a quasi-medieval world, the women are by and large used as pawns if they have value and objects if they don't. Used. Raped. Victims (although perpetrators as well) of incest. They cold-bloodedly and practically trade on their sexuality if they get the opportunity. Even when romantic love is somewhat involved, if it's not mocked as silly stuff for children, everyone is completely aware that it's never the primary motivation for sexual alliances.

It sure as shit ain't romantic. It's harsh and relentlessly brutal.

And those reviewers are mouthbreathers who should go back to their Sex and the City DVDs or start an online petition to bring Sheen back to Two and a Half Men.. More their speed.

Posted by: Wednesday at April 15, 2011 1:00 PM

The New York Times. Slate. Valar morghulis.

Posted by: Arya at April 15, 2011 1:01 PM

Raff the Sweetling, Biter, Rorge, The Tickler and the Hound. Ser Gregor, Ser Ilyn, Ser Jaime, King Joffrey, Queen Cersei. Ginia Bellafonte.

BRILLIANT.

Posted by: Wednesday at April 15, 2011 1:05 PM

Raff the Sweetling, Biter, Rorge, The Tickler and the Hound. Ser Gregor, Ser Ilyn, Ser Jaime, King Joffrey, Queen Cersei. Ginia Bellafonte. The New York Times. Slate. idleprimate. Valar morghulis.

Posted by: Arya at April 15, 2011 1:05 PM

"is it a stretch to say the fantasy market is by and large male?"

Yes, it is. I love attending the Renaissance Fair every summer. There is a huge female presence in attendance. Similarly, I recently went to the book signing of The Wise Man's Fear. Of the 300 in the crowd, I can say half was female.

The wimmin folk like us some sword fighting and sorcery. Fact.

Maybe generally men make up a larger portion of the fan base. But not by much.

Posted by: Scully at April 15, 2011 1:05 PM

Raff the Sweetling, Biter, Rorge, The Tickler and the Hound. Ser Gregor, Ser Ilyn, Ser Jaime, King Joffrey, Queen Cersei. Ginia Bellafonte. The New York Times. Slate. idleprimate. GOOP. Sparkly vampires. Pointy shoes. Glamour. Cosmo. Sex and the City. Valar morghulis.

Posted by: Arya at April 15, 2011 1:11 PM

Wow, I guess as a woman who dresses up several times a month in a TIE fighter outfit pilot, I must be some sort of freak of nature! I suppose I could join the carnival and have people shell out a whole nickel to see me suit up. ;)

Plenty of women like sword fights and fantasy and prefer it to romantic crap. The author in this case clearly hasn't even researched the subject, or she'd realize most of the sex in "A Game of Thrones" isn't of "The Notebook" variety, and that if women would come to the show in droves to see that, they'd be all kinds of messed up. Besides, how many straight women (no offense to my lesbian counterparts) prefer to see bare-breasted women instead of sword-fighting men? If I wanted to see naked boobies that bad I could just look at myself in the mirror - and it would be free.

Posted by: luthien26 at April 15, 2011 1:13 PM

marketers only care about numbers, they don't guess. and there is a difference between the number of women who like to dress up in period dresses for a fair, or the number of women that may be drawn to a particular work of fantasy, and which gender the bulk of revenue is coming from in the broader fantasy market.

I realise that women make up a larger share of the market for fantasy and geeky stuff than they did a couple of decades ago, but it is still needlessly defensive, and reflexively sexism-hunting to not acknowledge market make up.

most women i have known like comic book movies, and read fantasy. do i mistake them for being the norm? most guys i have known don't care for sports, neither do i. do i mistake that for being the norm?

Posted by: idleprimate at April 15, 2011 1:14 PM

The Hunger Games is often regarded as a female empowerment series. And while this might be true, anyone who has read A Song of Ice and Fire knows there is also a case of strong female characters there: Daenerys, Arya, Sansa, Catelyn, Lyanna, Asha and even Cersei to a certain extent.

So while on the outset the series might be marginalized as men-oriented, there are plenty of strong female characters to find. Is the sexism rampant in Westeros? For sure. But feminism is alive and well.

Winter is coming.

Posted by: Scully at April 15, 2011 1:14 PM

From those on the Cannonball Blog you guys know who I am.

I can't believe I have been wasting all this time reading books. Apparently I should just made sure my reading list is Oprah approved. In the future I'll try not to venture too far into the literary world so I don't sprain my brain.

Posted by: Ashley at April 15, 2011 1:14 PM

“while no one likes the stereotyping department, is it a stretch to say the fantasy market is by and large male? is it a stretch to say the "romance" novel market is by and large female? is it then a stretch to think movie and tv producers might draw the conclusion that by making romance and sex more prominent they might increase their viewership among the demographic least likely to be interested in fantasy?”


Posted by: idleprimate at April 15, 2011 12:58 PM


Fantasy, sex, or whatever else you want to call it. Women are into romance, and men are into fucking. You think a man wants to curl up with a good romance novel? Hell no, he wants to see some BBW fucking, interracial fucking, gloryhole fucking, Asian fucking, Latino fucking, big black cocks fucking, old and young fucking, and upskirt fucking. The visual and written dynamics that each sex brings to the table is worth taking note of. Romance novels are by and large written for and by women, fuck books i.e. Playboy, Hustler, and to a lesser extent Maxim are written for and by men. When these two mediums try to merge usually nobody comes away satisfied.

Posted by: Pookie at April 15, 2011 1:18 PM

Ridiculous. I read and loved the first one. I FINALLY bought the rest of the series: THAT is what I'm doing with my summer. I gave one to a girlfriend, who tore through all four in a month. And we have BOOOOOOOBS!

Posted by: Julie at April 15, 2011 1:23 PM

Raff the Sweetling, Biter, Rorge, The Tickler and the Hound. Ser Gregor, Ser Ilyn, Ser Jaime, King Joffrey, Queen Cersei. Ginia Bellafonte. The New York Times. Slate. idleprimate. GOOP. Sparkly vampires. Pointy shoes. Glamour. Cosmo. Sex and the City. The GOP. Valar morghulis.

Posted by: Arya at April 15, 2011 1:23 PM

gloryhole fucking

aaaaaand, I think we all learned all we need to know about Pookie from his inclusion of this phrase.

Posted by: dammitjanet at April 15, 2011 1:23 PM

is it then a stretch to think movie and tv producers might draw the conclusion that by making romance and sex more prominent they might increase their viewership among the demographic least likely to be interested in fantasy?

No, of course not. Though I'd have to seriously question the numbers in asserting that the fantasy demographic is primarily male. I strongly doubt that. Hard sci-fi? Maybe it's still male. Not fantasy.

HOWEVER, this was supposed to be a REVIEW of a HEAVILY PROMOTED series based on a wildly successful series of books. It's not some unknown quantity. And everything HBO has shown us has been pretty faithful to the spirit of the source material. There's NOTHING in the marketing to suggest they've tossed in/overemphasized a gooey love story a la The Lord of the Rings movies.

If she wanted to predict -- five months ago -- that HBO might add in romantic sex scenes to draw in more women, that's fine. We all understand marketing. But unless someone involved in the marketing of Game of Thrones specifically told her that they added gratuitous romance scenes, she's just flat-out plain old-fashioned stereotypically WRONG in this case.

Posted by: Wednesday at April 15, 2011 1:32 PM

Arya is KILLING ME. Ha!

Posted by: Julie at April 15, 2011 1:35 PM

Well I'm sure she's getting flamed all over the interwebz for this. The NYT article was simplistic and rather stupid and the Slate article was unreadable. Seriously... The way that guy was trying to string sentences together made my head hurt.

Posted by: cassie at April 15, 2011 1:36 PM

Raff the Sweetling, Biter, Rorge, The Tickler and the Hound. Ser Gregor, Ser Ilyn, Ser Jaime, King Joffrey, Queen Cersei. Ginia Bellafonte. The New York Times. Slate. idleprimate. GOOP. Sparkly vampires. Pointy shoes. Glamour. Cosmo. Sex and the City. The GOP. Julie. Valar morghulis.

Posted by: Arya at April 15, 2011 1:36 PM

Well said, Joanna! Arya and Daenerys both would be proud of you! Cersei would probably dig it too, but we don't really care about her opinion.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 15, 2011 1:44 PM

I read the Slate "review" yesterday and came very close to leaving a rude comment about the author's qualifications to even breathe, much less review a show. This one? This looks like sensationalism that's trying to garner more site hits. It's right up there with Palin's twitters that are written to stir up the less intelligent. We're all too savvy to fall for her blatant attempt at manipulation, right?

Posted by: snapnhiss at April 15, 2011 1:46 PM

This looks like sensationalism that's trying to garner more site hits.

I think you're giving Bellafante more credit than she deserves. I honestly don't believe she's smart enough to think of that.

Posted by: coveredinbees at April 15, 2011 1:49 PM

gloryhole fucking

aaaaaand, I think we all learned all we need to know about Pookie from his inclusion of this phrase.

Posted by: dammitjanet at April 15, 2011 1:23 PM


And this is why Pajiba is going to hell in a hand basket. I offer an honest and thought provoking analysis about the dynamics of the male/female relationship as it relates to romance in the entertainment industry and I’m mocked and insulted with glee. My presents here will not be for much longer.

Posted by: Pookie at April 15, 2011 1:50 PM

This article seriously torqued me off. It doesn't merely offend me as a geekgirl - it offends me as a female - besides the whole "girls don't like Fantasy and SciFi" tripe, I'm actually more insulted by the comment in the first paragraph that we womenfolk are not mentally agile enough to play complex games like bridge ... and should just not worry our pretty little heads about it and go back to watching SATC cos this show is just going to be too hard to follow.

So sad from a woman who wrote some interesting pieces on modern feminism about 10 years ago. Wonder what the hell happened.

And speaking of hell.... who the HELL is Lorrie Moore? never heard of her.

Funny thing: my hubs is the big SATC fan in our house... he loathes SciFi and Fantasy stuff... and hates video games, unless it's Bejeweled... sigh...

Anyhoo I can't wait for this series to start! And "Dance with Dragons" is finally coming out in a couple of months. Its a good year for Martin fans.

Posted by: nidaros at April 15, 2011 1:50 PM

Reading that makes me proud that I'm raising three fantasy and science fiction reading girls who can't possibly munch as much fuck as that insufferable twat.

Posted by: admin at April 15, 2011 1:54 PM

"My presents here will not be for much longer."

You have presents? Do you also have cake?

Posted by: StoatCat at April 15, 2011 1:55 PM

Raff the Sweetling, Biter, Rorge, The Tickler and the Hound. Ser Gregor, Ser Ilyn, Ser Jaime, King Joffrey, Queen Cersei. Ginia Bellafonte. The New York Times. Slate. idleprimate. GOOP. Sparkly vampires. Pointy shoes. Glamour. Cosmo. Sex and the City. The GOP. Julie. Pookie. People who do not share presents and cake. Valar morghulis.

Posted by: Arya at April 15, 2011 1:56 PM

My presents here will not be for much longer.

I see no wrapped gifts.

However, I appreciate what you were saying....men are more about the physical, and women about the emotional...overall. We are arguing about generalizations, and that is exactly what we keep coming back to. I like graphic sex and violence, and I know men who like the warm and fuzzy. So what?

I yam what I yam and that's all what I yam. So sayeth Popeye. So sayeth we all.

Posted by: dammitjanet at April 15, 2011 1:57 PM

Conspiracy theory: HBO has been publicity-blitzing this show to a ludicrous degree. What might put the buzz over the top? Upset the Game Of Thrones loyalists and fantasy crowd by paying off reviewers to post blatantly sexist and genre-bashing reviews just before the premiere, thus compelling us to talk about it even more (particularly with the non-fantasy crowd) and boil us to a nicely bubbling froth. Enter the resulting Internet dialogue explosion, and you have several thousand more viewers on Sunday night. Probably not the case, but I thought it an amusing idea.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 15, 2011 1:59 PM

I've had enough. I'm recommending banishment of "Game of Thrones" and its kin from the G.R.O.S.S. (Get Rid Of Slimy girlS) officially-sanctioned reading list. It might as well be titled "A Song of Ice and Cooties".

Posted by: branded at April 15, 2011 2:06 PM

The sex was thrown in for the girls? Someone obviously isn't aware of which gender consumes the most pornography. If anyone loves watching people get it on, it's men.

Though, the sex in Game of Thrones makes me queasy (as I've stated before) because the younger the participant, the more detailed the sex scene becomes. Are they really going to air the various sex scenes with the understanding that Daenarys is 13 years old?

Posted by: Lennon at April 15, 2011 2:06 PM

Raff the Sweetling, Biter, Rorge, The Tickler and the Hound. Ser Gregor, Ser Ilyn, Ser Jaime, King Joffrey, Queen Cersei. Ginia Bellafonte. The New York Times. Slate. idleprimate. GOOP. Sparkly vampires. Pointy shoes. Glamour. Cosmo. Sex and the City. The GOP. Julie. Pookie. People who do not share presents and cake. Donald Trump. Valar morghulis.

Posted by: Arya at April 15, 2011 2:08 PM

Presence!!! Are you all happy now? Are you all through dragging me through the mud? If I’m kicked in the balls do I not cry out? I’m human, I do have feelings you know. I know sometimes I come off as being aloof and strong but sometimes I’m just unsure about myself just like most people.

Posted by: Pookie at April 15, 2011 2:09 PM

@branded-

More like "A Song of Ice on Cooters". Heh.

Actually, that might make a good porno title. Hmmm....


/starts writing screenplay

Posted by: StoatCat at April 15, 2011 2:10 PM

I...actually DID quit my book club because they didn't want to read Kavalier and Clay (they opted for Julie & Julia instead, I believe).

Die Hard and The Crow are my favorite movies of all time. I love beer and sports. I don't particularly like babies.

I also love cooking for my boyfriend, mani-pedis, pretty dresses and The Vampire Diaries.

That's because I'm an actual person, not a disembodied vagina.

I LOVE Game of Thrones, with all its political machinations and brutal shocking twists and complex characters, both men and women. There's nothing patronizing about anything in the entire run of books, and I hope that the HBO series stays faithful to that.

I can't believe this woman is writing for the New York Times with ideas like this.

Posted by: Kowala1000 at April 15, 2011 2:10 PM

Somebody give Pookie a tissue and some ice for his balls.

Posted by: dammitjanet at April 15, 2011 2:12 PM

Wow. That was a bunch of dumb. Okay, so I'm one of those women who like (well done) sex and violence. That's one of the many reasons I was so happy that HBO got their hands on this series, rather than some clap trap network. I'm not a huge fantasy fan, but I happily tell anyone who will listen that this is one of the greatest book series I've ever read. While the knights/dragons/insert other medieval trappings make for interesting plot, the real draw is the human drama that takes place. George R.R. Martin has made a world where people love, hate, conspire, fear, etc. And a huge aspect of the human condition is fighting and fucking.

Martin doesn't shy away from this fact and neither does HBO. It's a shame that NYT got a twit who sums up the source material as "boy fiction patronizingly turned out to reach the population’s other half." I wonder if she will realize that the only person that's done any insult to the female gender is her.

The Slate Review can suck it. I barely made my way through it. He devoted one tiny paragraph to actual review work; the rest of it was him discussing how much he hates fantasy. Uh, then why review the shit, asshole? If it's just for the check (and believe me, as a struggling writer, I understand the lure of the Check, oh yes, I do), why couldn't he be decent enough to put aside his fucking bias and just do his damn job?

Oh, and Patterson of Slate? Trying to sound cool (emphasis on "trying"), doesn't give you a pass to be completely unintelligible.

Now stay the fuck away from my series, douche nozzle. Stick your dick in that beloved thesaurus of yours and slam it shut.

Posted by: Kaleena at April 15, 2011 2:15 PM

@dammitjanet-

And some cake, assuming he doesn't have some of his own already.

Posted by: StoatCat at April 15, 2011 2:15 PM

@Kaleena

Valar dohaeris.

/hands her a Braavosi water dancer sword of her very own

Posted by: Arya at April 15, 2011 2:18 PM

Damn, I seriously have to get my hands on these books. Have not read them, and from what y'all are saying, I would love them.

Posted by: dammitjanet at April 15, 2011 2:21 PM

And if anyone wants to read a real review of HBO's Game Of Thrones, give this one from TIME a try...

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,2065251-1,00.html

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 15, 2011 2:21 PM

Hey, Arya...it's not that I'm not on your side...but have you maybe stopped to consider that you might have just a twinge of homicidal sociopath in you?

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 15, 2011 2:23 PM

No, Lennon, they've pretty much aged all of the child characters, some more than others. Daenerys is still young, but she's not a 13-year-old.

I can't believe how upsetting those reviews were. I've been reading epic fantasy since I was 13, and I sure didn't read it for the satisfying romantic subplots (although there's lots of great fantasy that has THAT as well). I know far more women who read fantasy than men (many whom will happily read lots of pulpy crime and action books, but find fantasy or romance silly).

Posted by: Malin at April 15, 2011 2:28 PM

That’s It! I can no longer be a part of a community that has patrons that ridicule and mock other community members. I come here to be among friends and talk about the art of cinema. Now it has become a burden, a community of like minded people has now given way to a small bunch of reprobates bent on browbeating some of the other community members. I no longer have the stomach for such warfare. Goodbye.

Posted by: Pookie at April 15, 2011 2:28 PM

Raff the Sweetling, Biter, Rorge, The Tickler and the Hound. Ser Gregor, Ser Ilyn, Ser Jaime, King Joffrey, Queen Cersei. Ginia Bellafonte. The New York Times. Slate. idleprimate. GOOP. Sparkly vampires. Pointy shoes. Glamour. Cosmo. Sex and the City. The GOP. Julie. Pookie. People who do not share presents and cake. Donald Trump. DarthCorleone. Valar morghulis.

Posted by: Arya at April 15, 2011 2:29 PM

Christ alive, that Slate review is atrocious. What the hell is he even rambling on about?! The ex-journalism student in me is weeping bitter tears.

Posted by: CC at April 15, 2011 2:52 PM

I am standing up in indignation in my cubicle right now, demanding that this twit eat a big steamy pile of STFU and SIT DOWN.

Did she even read the damn book?

Posted by: bokchoi at April 15, 2011 3:00 PM

I am so sorry, Pookie, when I said you need a tissue and ice for your balls. Please accept my apology.

You need a Midol and a super absorbent tampon.

And some chocolate.

Posted by: dammitjanet at April 15, 2011 3:08 PM

@dammitjanet-

Chocolate cake?

I'm now obsessed with cake. Thanks, This Thread and My Own Damned Imagination!

Posted by: StoatCat at April 15, 2011 3:11 PM

@StoatCat-

damn....that sounds tasty.

Posted by: dammitjanet at April 15, 2011 3:14 PM

Hey, boobs and broadswords are two great things that go great together. Can't we all just agree to that and get along?

Anecdotally speaking... The women I know who watch shows like the ones refenced above, do so because they enjoy the intrigue and the suspense and the idea that people are always the same, no matter what century it is. The violence and the sex are just filler for the story, but they don't begrudge either. For me, I like all of it, but I really only watched The Tudors for the sex, which wasn't even that great (certainly not as jaw dropping as what Spartacus gets away with). Otherwise, that show was boring as all hell, and poorly executed very interesting history. Or, at least, it got that way for me after I realized Jonathan Rhys Meyers is kind of a bad actor.

Anyway, I watched the 20 minute preview of Game of Thrones, which contained neither uber-violence (gore, yes, violence, no) nor sex. But it was pretty dope. I especially liked the concept of justice/punishment that Sean Bean's character portrayed; I could get behind that as a model for our current system. I may just have to start reading this series...

P.S. - Pookie, don't leave, and don't ever change!

Posted by: RobP at April 15, 2011 3:17 PM

Arya, swift as a deer, quiet as a shadow, consider Sarah Palin.

The water dancer sees. Just so.

Valar Dohaeris.

Posted by: Scully at April 15, 2011 3:19 PM

Raff the Sweetling, Biter, Rorge, The Tickler and the Hound. Ser Gregor, Ser Ilyn, Ser Jaime, King Joffrey, Queen Cersei. Ginia Bellafonte. The New York Times. Slate. idleprimate. GOOP. Sparkly vampires. Pointy shoes. Glamour. Cosmo. Sex and the City. The GOP. Julie. Pookie. People who do not share presents and cake. Donald Trump. DarthCorleone. Sarah Palin. Valar morghulis.

Posted by: Arya at April 15, 2011 3:20 PM

I am so sorry, Pookie, when I said you need a tissue and ice for your balls. Please accept my apology.

You need a Midol and a super absorbent tampon.

And some chocolate.

Posted by: dammitjanet at April 15, 2011 3:08 PM

Wait.

So, it's okay to insult a man by suggesting he's acting like a woman, but to point out generalizations about gender that are more/less proven by the various porn/romance markets is not okay?

Just trying to get my hypocrisies straight...

Posted by: RobP at April 15, 2011 3:21 PM

Here's another real review --
Hollywood Reporter

Posted by: Drake at April 15, 2011 3:26 PM

These broad generalizations = generalizations about broads.

Also, since when is the suggestion to take Midol and get a tampon an insinuation that he's acting like a woman? Midol works for guys too. Probably soothes the pain of an aching ball sack really well. It's great for back pain. And tampons are good at soaking up blood, be it from a bloody nose or a newly-ripped asshole.


And who doesn't love chocolate?


You know, other than dogs.

Posted by: StoatCat at April 15, 2011 3:30 PM

@RobP...Yup.

Just kidding.

But, I need some chocolate.

How's that?

Posted by: dammitjanet at April 15, 2011 3:31 PM

Oh, and tampons are used for bullet wounds...

just sayin'

Posted by: dammitjanet at April 15, 2011 3:31 PM

I saw the discussion in another thread about the ages of the characters, etc... it's been a few years since I read these books, but didn't it mention somewhere that the years are longer on this world which would make a 9 year old, say, about 13 in our time? So the sex scenes that are getting everyone so worked up about aren't really all that age inappropriate.

Posted by: snapnhiss at April 15, 2011 3:32 PM

I don't want all this stupid crap written by stupid people to detract from how spectacular this series is and hope epic I PRAY the show is so mainly I just want to say: I can't wait for this on Sunday!!! My boyfriend and I have been counting down since January.

Oh, and you call "Mr. Martin" by his full name, you moronic bitch.

Posted by: Layne at April 15, 2011 3:36 PM

Personally, I HATE excessive sex in movies. I think tacking on sex and love interests ruins otherwise great movies.

Posted by: Annicka at April 15, 2011 3:40 PM

I saw the discussion in another thread about the ages of the characters, etc... it's been a few years since I read these books, but didn't it mention somewhere that the years are longer on this world which would make a 9 year old, say, about 13 in our time? So the sex scenes that are getting everyone so worked up about aren't really all that age inappropriate.

The seasons are longer, not the years.

Posted by: Lennon at April 15, 2011 3:46 PM

I saw the discussion in another thread about the ages of the characters, etc... it's been a few years since I read these books, but didn't it mention somewhere that the years are longer on this world which would make a 9 year old, say, about 13 in our time?

That's my totally unsubstantiated, probably wrong pet theory.

Posted by: Wednesday at April 15, 2011 3:49 PM

@snapnhiss

I had always reckoned that Westerosi years and Earth years were about the same. The seasons are longer, but there's no evidence to me that that affects the way they count years. I always figured that Martin's decision to make the children so young was intentional, so he could heighten the tension that occurs when they find themselves in adult situations and problems. Such as...

***Spoiler Alert!!!****

On the wedding night, Tyrion thins decides not to follow through with bedding Sansa because she is "a maid newly flowered".

The same goes for Daenaerys, who is definitely a teenager in A Game of Thrones, but is nevertheless wed to Khal Drogo. Her physical immaturity goes hand in hand with her naivete and sets the stage for her growth throughout the novels.

*****End Spoilers*****

This is one of the things I love about this series. It's rife with characters whose physical characteristics (particularly scars, disfigurements and deformities) are outward manifestations of some inner conflict or turmoil. The children really do start out in the books too young for the situations they will find themselves in, but that just gives them a place to grow from as characters, physically and emotionally.

Posted by: StoatCat at April 15, 2011 3:50 PM

These broad generalizations = generalizations about broads.

Actually, Pookie was talking about both men and women. As much as I love a good pun, it doesn't automatically make you right.

As for tampons and Midol? A) I said "suggesting" and B) C'mon.

Posted by: RobP at April 15, 2011 3:59 PM

The point of the article fisked above is that the sex in Game of Thrones was thrown in just to draw in a female audience, under the assumption that ladies don't enjoy fantasy and the associated violence. The resounding response from the ladies in this thread is that this isn't true. This entire thread is about generalizations about women. And for the record, you can't "prove" a generalization. If you want to prove something, provide some numbers or some other factual evidence, and not just personal observations. We're all providing our own opinions about someone else's opinion.

Yeah, Pookie was talking about women and men, but in his charming and nonsensical way. Nothing wrong with that, and also nothing wrong with puns about spelling errors. If he wants to feel hurt that some people on the internet teased him about his spelling, I suppose he is free to do so. Everything I've said in this thread I have said with good humor toward all and malice toward none.

In conclusion: let's all have some fucking cake, okay? Jesus.

Posted by: StoatCat at April 15, 2011 4:24 PM

Okay, who the hell is Lorrie Moore? Why am I supposed to care about her?

Posted by: DominaNefret at April 15, 2011 4:25 PM

Yes, I know the seasons are longer, my memory isn't THAT bad (yet) but I could have sworn there was a mention about the years. This is rather telling:

"Robb was sixteen a few days past . . . a man grown, and a king. He's won every battle he's fought. The last word we had from him, he had taken the Crag from the Westerlings."

Now I don't know about anyone else, but I don't consider 16 'a man grown'.

Posted by: snapnhiss at April 15, 2011 4:33 PM

The people have already spoken, sans proper grammar, on Wikipedia:

"Ginia Bellafante (born March 31, 1965) is an American writer and critic, for the New York Times, New York Observer, and Time (magazine). She is a bad critic with a skewed perception of woman."

Posted by: Forbiddendonut at April 15, 2011 4:49 PM

In conclusion: let's all have some fucking cake, okay?

Anyway, this cake is great. It's so delicious and moist.

Posted by: GLaDOS at April 15, 2011 4:50 PM

At first I found the ages striking - particularly for Bran and Daenerys. Then I just stopped thinking about it. The characters are who they are in my mind, and whether or not their planet takes a few extra months to circle their solar system, I'm not worried about it.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 15, 2011 4:53 PM

Arya, you might want to take care of GLaDOS before you deal with me. That's a homicidal sociopath, trying to distract us with wonderful cake.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 15, 2011 4:55 PM

/eats cake off end of Needle
//ponders revision of nightly prayers

Posted by: Arya at April 15, 2011 5:05 PM

You know you're at home on a website when the comments section spawns a Portal / A Song Of Ice And Fire crossover.

Or at least that's when I know I'm at home.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 15, 2011 5:42 PM

i wouldn't worry about the pookster. pookie is a winking, nodding, sneering spiked armadillo. he(she?) be yankin your chain, stoatcat.

also, i rescind my notions about the ratio of genders feeding at the fantasy trough. my sensibility of fantasy as a genre seems to be 25 years out of date. i was poking around the internet, initially to find a stat (no such luck, though even polls among self-selected biased crowds on genre sites suggest there are still more boys), what i did find was a lot of meditations on how the content of the genre has changed in ways that reflect the rise of the female dollar, and the fact that in general, women read more than men, and specifically read a hell of a lot more fiction than men (the norm for men is sports books, war books, how to books and the occasional spy thriller--obviously this doesn't apply to the fantasy geek who demolishes 100 or more fantasy novels a year).

quite simply, the genre started changing in order to go for the bigger fish.

Posted by: idleprimate at April 15, 2011 5:59 PM

io9 has a rant regarding this NYT article.

Posted by: noonoo at April 15, 2011 6:08 PM

Thanks, Joanna. I'm a huge female fan of the series, got my friends fighting over my tattered copies of the novels, and when I read that article yesterday I wanted to punch that silly bitch in the throat.

Posted by: kidtiger at April 15, 2011 6:34 PM

I'll buy that, idleprimate.

Posted by: StoatCat at April 15, 2011 6:51 PM

I opt for booze and peach cobbler. I have no cake, but this will work just as well.

Pookie, ya know I loves ya!

Who has the whipped cream?

Posted by: dammitjanet at April 15, 2011 7:35 PM

hey! who the hell is doing booze and peach cobbler and didn't invite me?

do you not realise I have the most ornate pie lifter on this side of the atlantic?

elitists. harumph.

Posted by: idleprimate at April 15, 2011 8:43 PM

Pie lifter? Well, ooh la di da, Mr. Monkey Man. I don't even know what that is. I use a damn knife and fork. Now, who's the elitist?

I've got rum, if anyone wants it. Vanilla Coke, too, if you're into that sorta thing.

Posted by: RobP at April 15, 2011 9:43 PM

The people have already spoken, sans proper grammar, on Wikipedia:

"Ginia Bellafante (born March 31, 1965) is an American writer and critic, for the New York Times, New York Observer, and Time (magazine). She is a bad critic with a skewed perception of woman."

Posted by: Forbiddendonut at April 15, 2011 4:49 PM

That's funny, Forbiddendonut, I looked her up there as soon as I read the "review" in question, and as of this evening her Wikipedia entry now reads:

"Ginia Bellafante (born March 31, 1965) is an American writer (of incredibly poorly written articles[1]) and critic, for the New York Times,[2] New York Observer,[3] and Time (magazine)." Complete with references. She's SO popular.

Posted by: Uriah Creep at April 15, 2011 9:56 PM

well crap. i'm only bringing beer. and my laser discs of great fun 80's fantasy flics. anyone doesn't like it gets poo flung.

Posted by: idleprimate at April 15, 2011 10:07 PM

anyone doesn't like it gets poo flung.

Posted by: idleprimate at April 15, 2011 10:07 PM

And I'm guessing you don't have a monkey.

Posted by: Uriah Creep at April 15, 2011 10:52 PM

*Wields sword around in unwieldy manner*

Just a comment on the age discussion, I was totally under the assumption that the years run the same as ours. I just think that George R.R. Martin was trying to truly recreate a medieval atmosphere. The average life span was short, so boys were men by the time they reached their 16th birthdays, and girls were oftentimes married off and in the midst of copulating by the time they were 14.

I'm also under the impression that HBO raised the ages of some characters in sexual situations, like Daenerys' storyline. I don't blame them. "Just old enough" is an uncomfortable line to dance.

Posted by: Kaleena at April 15, 2011 10:57 PM

Kaleena, you're correct. Martin makes it so that children as young as 6 and 7 can inherit lands and titles (and get the recognition of authority from their titles/bloodlines), people in their mid-30s are already old men/women and so forth.

This isn't as big a deal for me because it appears as if they've nailed every character right.

Posted by: Fredo at April 15, 2011 11:54 PM

uriah, i am a monkey and bring my own poop

Posted by: idleprimate at April 16, 2011 12:25 AM

I went to the Ginia Bellafante Wikipedia page and all of the negativity was removed.

Posted by: Uda at April 16, 2011 12:27 AM

I think HBO has generally aged up all the characters to not have to deal with how to portray any relationships that feature super young characters and old characters. Cause Eddard Stark must have been well under 40 right? And Sean Bean is 50+ I think they just slapped on a good 8 years to 10 years to everyones's age.

Posted by: anyanka at April 16, 2011 1:10 AM

uriah, i am a monkey and bring my own poop

Posted by: idleprimate at April 16, 2011 12:25 AM

Well that's a little disturbing.


I went to the Ginia Bellafante Wikipedia page and all of the negativity was removed.

Posted by: Uda at April 16, 2011 12:27 AM

But the old entry was more FUN.

Posted by: Uriah Creep at April 16, 2011 7:10 AM

Calm down everyone. I'm here. There's enough for all.

Posted by: Delicious Fuckin' Cake at April 16, 2011 11:04 AM

Great, now she even made GRRM so mad that he actually posted about it on his Website. Every second he takes away from finishing Dance is precious! I just pitied her stupidity before, now I think she deserves everything that Karma has to throw at her. And who said Chanel and doorstoppers don't go together anyway? It's not like they don't do bigger bags...

Posted by: Phedre at April 16, 2011 4:57 PM

HILARIOUS! i am pissed about it too. wrote a long rant on my blog as well.

Posted by: educatedpony at April 16, 2011 7:33 PM

For anyone who might be interested, Slate put out - what I consider to be - a very well written article, that addresses both of those craptastic reviews.

http://www.salon.com/entertainment/tv/feature/2011/04/16/game_of_thrones_review_of_reviewers/

Posted by: Kaleena at April 17, 2011 1:40 PM

Disgusting! I wish they can take out all the sex and profanity. I am sick of all this crap they are putting out. Women want to see the sex scenes. I do not know too many women that are watching this and the ones who want to see sex scenes like this instead of nice romantic scenes are sick! Society is crumbling fast!

Posted by: Daniel at April 18, 2011 12:31 AM

Wiki update - now in soothing non-critical tones:

Ginia Bellafante (born March 31, 1965) is an American writer and critic, for the New York Times,[1] New York Observer,[2] and Time (magazine).[3][4]

Her 2011 review of the TV series Game of Thrones was widely criticized as sexist for suggesting that only sexual content might motivate women to watch a complex fantasy story.[5][6][7][8]

Posted by: Alarmjaguar at April 18, 2011 3:52 AM

Who let Grandpa Daniel out of the attic? Here, take your Metamucil Grampy, and go watch "Matlock."

Posted by: dammitjanet at April 18, 2011 9:00 AM

Shut up and fix me a sandwich!

Posted by: Guccinub at April 18, 2011 5:07 PM

@Arya:

Posted by: Victoria at April 18, 2011 5:33 PM

Most people do not want to watch that crap. I was born in 1970 and most people think the same way as I do! How can you compare this fantasy with Lord of the Rings? Plenty of action, humor and romance and yes most people have seen Lord of the Rings! It is disgusting and anal sex? Most people do not even have anal sex.

Posted by: Daniel at April 18, 2011 9:22 PM

Nearly all the movies I watch are period films action or drama. These shows can't get many people to watch them. They say 1 million is a lot. How is that a lot? Like people watching the Jersey Shore. Why can't they get their own station for these shows. Incest is gross. Does anyone fantasize about incest? If you do, you need help. This is not mature but it should be X rated. The sex scenes are porn. Spartacus and the Tudors were the same. Tudors wasn't even factual! Just porn.

Posted by: Daniel at April 18, 2011 9:29 PM

How did 5 percent or maybe 10 percent of the population out there dominate what is on TV? I am serious. No one wants to watch shows with graphic porn. What is wrong with just kissing and then that's it. I hate to watch other people have graphic sex. They make it disgusting too.

Posted by: Daniel at April 18, 2011 9:32 PM

Most people do not want to watch that crap. I was born in 1970 and most people think the same way as I do!

Nearly all the movies I watch are period films action or drama...Why can't they get their own station for these shows.

How did 5 percent or maybe 10 percent of the population out there dominate what is on TV? I am serious. No one wants to watch shows with graphic porn.

I would just like to point out that A) I was also born in 1970 and I enjoy graphic sex in my programs; B) if "most people" hated this kind of programming, it wouldn't make any money and it'd stop being made; C) you, Daniel, are not "most people," (and I recognize that neither am I); D) they have their own station for most of the shows you mention... it's called HBO; and E) this is not graphic porn. It's not really anywhere close to graphic porn, really.

Posted by: Anna von Beav at April 19, 2011 9:19 AM

I was born in 1968, and am therefore Daniel's elder.
And being as Daniel is so frickin' prim, prissy, and proper, he most assuredly knows he should respect his elders, and I say Daniel needs to shut the fuck up and watch something else that doesn't bother him so much, and us by extension when he comes here and whines about it.

The END.

Posted by: Rykker at April 19, 2011 11:24 AM

Make me you bastard! I hope you die and horrible death you fuckin filth of the earth! Go kill yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Daniel at April 19, 2011 9:11 PM

You are so perverted! You get me so angry. You probably have incest with your family, rape women and kids. Gross. I do like the show. I am saying I do not think they should have perverted sex like anal or incest! You disgusting gross pig! I know most people are not even watching the show because of this and yes I talk to many people! They would get a hell of a lot more people if it was made for all ages! Lord of the Rings was action packed and no sex or graphic. Yes that is graphic. Anal sex? You are a sicko! You need help and I am sorry to burst your stinkin bubble but 70 percent of Americans do not want to see graphic sex scenes in movies at all! Another 20 percent think it should be toned down as well! 10 percent like you are the ones forcing this on! Most people do not watch TV and TV stations and many movies are not making money. You know what is making money????? PG and rated G movies not the mature! I loved movies like Gladiator, Braveheart, Lord of the Rings, Pearl Harbor, and more!

Posted by: Daniel at April 19, 2011 9:21 PM

Daniel, my man. Let me break it down for you. You are not being forced to watch anything. You have channel buttons on your remote, a mouse/keypad combo that can make the internet go somewhere without full penetration, and a mind to decide what you choose to focus your attention on. You seem like a hilariously angry man who is absolutely TERRIFIED of sex, and that's okay. We all have our hang-ups. I like to mention my genitals at every opportunity. See? Weird, right?

Now, I can't help but wonder what you're doing on a thread for this show that you hate with all of your soul . . . doesn't make sense to a rational person . . . what if I shut down this part of my brain . . . then smoked this . . . AHA! We've stumbled upon one of those examples I just mentioned! We can use this to our benefit, my new friend!

Okay, here we go. Place your hand on your mouse and click in the "Search" box near the top of your browser window. Got it? Great. Now place your fingers on your keyboard and type something you think is completely fucking awesome. For example, I would type "large breasts" because I love some big ole bastard titties. Did you think of something? Yeah? Awesome! Now click the "Search" button and get the fuck out of here.

Posted by: Kballs at April 20, 2011 8:17 AM

I know most people are not even watching the show because of this and yes I talk to many people!

You know there's, like, three hundred and seven million people in this country, right?

70 percent of Americans do not want to see graphic sex scenes in movies at all! Another 20 percent think it should be toned down as well! 10 percent like you are the ones forcing this on! Most people do not watch TV and TV stations and many movies are not making money. You know what is making money????? PG and rated G movies not the mature!

Cite your sources, please.

P.S. Gladiator and Braveheart are both rated R. But please, by all means, don't let that stop you.

Posted by: Anna von Beav at April 20, 2011 8:43 AM

It's not the bloody gore that displeases Mr. Daniel, AvB, it's the dirty, filthy, naughty sex. He doesn't like it when private parts shake hands. Violence, though? Violence is A-Okay.

I smell a fish.

Posted by: RobP at April 20, 2011 9:21 AM

weird syntax aside (who am i to judge?), dumbest troll ever.

Posted by: gp at April 20, 2011 11:21 AM

I like Lorrie Moore AND George R. R. Martin. It's nifty how human beings, let alone women, don't always fit into "types".

And screw HBO for turning Daenerys's wedding night into a rape scene. Did they think THAT would draw the ladies? One more fuckup on that level and I'm not buying the DVDs.

Posted by: Vi at April 20, 2011 8:04 PM

What a wretched series. They should've rated it "R, Going on X". And to think that this was a toned-down version of the books.

Posted by: Nhelo Angelo at April 29, 2011 6:13 PM

"The New York Times. Slate. Valar morghulis.
Posted by: Arya at April 15, 2011 1:01 PM"

lmao

Posted by: sff at May 7, 2011 6:05 PM