Pajiba

So, let me get this straight...white people aren't allowed to be poor because you are black?

What if a black dude asks you to contribute to the "United Negro Pizza Fund"? Is that clever enough to warrant a dollar? I know, I know, I'll show myself out.

Also:

I had to tear up a five to teach her a goddamn lesson.

Classic.

Two months ago on my honeymoon we were in Madrid when I saw a homeless man with no legs begging off the Plaza Mayor. I grew up outside of NYC and am pretty thoroughly calloused to beggars at this point in my life--I've fallen to my fair share of scams and come out the other side nice and bitter and cynical like other New Yorkers. But the sight of this man with no legs in tattered clothes filled me with the need to do something. So I grabbed the change in my pocket and dropped it into the can he was holding. I didn't actually look at what change I dropped in, because...why would it matter? Initially he thanked me, but as I took five or six steps away I felt something sharp hit me in the back of the head, and then the 2-cent coin went rolling past me down the sidewalk.

HE THREW THE CHANGE I GAVE TO HIM AT MY HEAD. Or, more accurately, the part of the change he deemed "beneath" him.

Apparently beggars CAN be choosers. Violent, nasty choosers.

I live in one of the homeless meccas of Canada (mildest climate = many homeless people) and I find the persistent begging to be really tiresome. Yes, I have a job, nice clothes, and a roof over my head. Occasionally, I buy an overpriced coffee and croissant. I also worked my ass off in school, have a hefty student loan to prove it, and work more than 50 hours a week.

Having "spare change!" yelled at me as an order when I walk with my female coworkers to get coffee is not only annoying, it can be downright confrontational. I donate to local homeless charities that help house people, but I'm not going to be dropping any dollars in the cup, as I'm 90% sure they'll get handed over to a drug dealer. No thank you.

Two stories, one sweet and one not.

Not sweet: My boss and her late husband were walking around downtown a couple years ago when a white beggar kid asked them for some change. My boss's hubby reached into the pocket of his jeans, fished out a $5, gave it to the kid, and started to walk away. The kid calls after him, "Only $5? Those jeans you're wearing cost at least $100!" My boss's hubby, all 6'2" and 230+ pounds of him, turns around and runs after the kid. He snatches the kid up by his arm, grabs the five from his hand, and he and my boss go merrily on their way.

Sweet: My church friends and I were in Kansas City for some conference for Catholic high schoolers. An old black man stops us on the street and asks if we can spare a bit of change so he can buy some lunch. Being high schoolers, none of us have any money but my friend happens to have an apple in her bag. She hands it to the man and says that she feels bad that she has nothing more for him. The rest of us feel bad also because he was so sweet. He thanks my friend for the apple but says he can't accept it. He smiles and reveals nothing but gums. "Thank you miss, but I have no teeth to eat this with. Bless you and your friends for your kindness."

Dammit, Stardust. I was perfectly content being a terrible person until that second story.

The kid calls after him, "Only $5? Those jeans you're wearing cost at least $100!"

Looks like *somebody* thinks the world owes him a living.

Oh, another story. Okay, so we have a lot of homeless people in our little beach town. Around Christmas last year my husband and I were eating on the balcony of a local tapas bar that overlooks the main street downtown with all the tourist shops. The bar across the street was playing some fucking awful muzak that was just an insult to the ear of any sentient being. After we were at the bar for a while and the street started to get busier, a saxophonist that was obviously homeless set up shop on the corner and started playing Christmas carols. And he was fucking great. Like, really enjoyable. And he drowned out the music from the other bar. When my husband and I were done with our dinner and drinks I made him go give the dude a $10. Dude really earned it.

You're a fucking racist. Fuck you for thinking everything goes my way because I'm white. I'm fucking sick of black angst. You have more opportunities than me these days you fucking dipshit. Did I mention fuck you?

Yeah, Tracer, that second one kind of gets ya in the gut. It's been 12 years and I still remember that old man's face.

I guess people think white women are some stingy ass bitches, because I've seen beggars ask other people and PASS ME UP.

The worst I ever saw was this old black guy on crutches. It was July in Dallas and he had one leg. He was also on the shoulder of an exit ramp and construction work was going on nearby. Because it was deathy out, and he was sweating his ass off, and there was red dust blowing around everywhere, he looked sort of orange. Like a sad old broken-down one-legged Cheeto.

He would do his hands in prayer, trying to look at every driver. He was taking his damn life in his hands just being where he was. One misstep would mean being run over or falling back where they were building a road.

So when he got up to my window, I handed him a five. The truly startling thing was realizing how young he actually was. He looked so old from a distance.

I actually read a story on him later. Some lady got to talking to him to try to get him to a safer area and realized he was a veteran. VA confirmed. He was missing most of his teeth and in extremely poor health, but they got him in the big VA hospital in Dallas and were fixing him up and trying to find some place for him to stay. One-legged Cheeto veteran man.

:(

Anyway, I don't regret giving spare change, dollars, whatnot. I'm just thankful I'm not in the position of panhandling.

Tracer, I think you need to focus on Jesus.

(Hee.)

The last couple of times I've been to the city I experienced the subway spiel. It's one thing when you are walking by a person, but when the audience is captive and someone gets up and gives a prepared speech, then walks back and forth through the car waiting for people to drop money in the cup - well, it kind of reminded me of church.

I don't go to church.

Another story:

I was in Chicago on business several years ago. My sanctimonious, holier-than-thou born again Jesus Freak stepgrandmother (don't ask) decided to meet me there and we were getting on the train when we saw a guy sitting there playing the guitar. His case was open for money.

I was all "oh, he plays so nicely" and leaned over to put some change in there and she quick GRABS my arm like I'm about to fall off the Sears tower and is all hissing at me "NO." I was like what? and put it in there anyway.

Then we got on the train and she looked like she wanted to vomit, told me to "NEVER ENCOURAGE THOSE PEOPLE."

I just looked at her and said "for whatsoever you do to the least among you, you do also to me."

You'd think she woulda known that line, carrying her Bible around with her all the time.

I agree with the spirit of this post, but as for most the content, I'm with Bones. Fuck you. I've got a hundred grand in student loan debt that I'll work my ass off my whole life to never pay off because I'm not a) rich b) poor c) a minority. Just your typical middle-class white kid whose parents struggled to pay the mortgage, let alone save for my college education. Plus there are the colleges that rejected me while legacy bluebloods and less-qualified minority kids got in on a full ride. Plus there are the jobs I'll miss out on because I'm not a rich white, so I don't have an "in", and I'm not a minority that fills a quota. I'm all for racial sensitivity and yeah, most white people live in better circumstances than black people, but that doesn't mean that being white means I glide through life on a cloud of angel farts. Everyone has their row to hoe, goddammit, don't belittle mine.

On another topic, while we're all being mildly racist, has anyone else noticed that black street performers and buskers are by and large about 140938.3 billion percent more talented/entertaining than white street performers and buskers?

Goddamn,heatseeker. Where IN THE HELL did you go to school that you have a hundred grand in student loan debt?

Why am I supposed to feel sorry for someone who has a hundred grand in student loan debt?

I still don't see how it requires pity. Also, it's still easier to get a job being white, despite not being rich or a minority.

I find this kind of whiny "me, too, oh, my lot is so hard, too" embarrassing.

I am poor. I grew up poor. I got into a private college on a scholarship and, while not $100,000, I still have a shitload of loans I'll never pay off. And nobody will hire me, for reasons usually based somewhere around "you have no experience" (despite my three years of work in various places at once) and "you're too young".
I'm not whining and saying "pity me", I'm saying get off of your high horse because the fact that I'm white doesn't make me any less poor.

Kevin I feel ya, but that scholarship to the expensive private school obviously didn't pay all of it and now you have more student loan debt than you can ever pay off???

My brother got a partial scholarship to SMU. He said no. Because he would have still been saddled with massive student loan debt even after the partial scholarship. It just didn't make any sense to him to do that to himself. He went to a state four year school and finished with very little in debt. It has long been paid off.

I did the same thing. Public, four year, paid off my student loans in the first five years. Graduate school? Paid for it as I went and borrowed half because I realized it would have taken forever doing the pay as I went route. I'm still paying it off, but I will end up paying it for about 3-5 years.

Sorry, but I think what Dingles said applies. This idea of being in debt for life for your post-secondary education needs to die. I used to only hear horror stories like that about people who went to med school.

I also have two standout homeless experiences, one wonderful, and one not.

The first was when I was probably about 8 years old, at our local beggar hangout, an off-ramp of the interstate that had a painfully long red light; perfect for harassing trapped drivers. I saw that a homeless man saw sitting slumped over crosslegged on the median with a huge wrap-around cardboard sign asking for change. I asked my mom if I could give him some change, seeing as I had just come from sunday school where I had learned that this was the right thing to do. My mom said that he should try to get work rather than sit on the corner begging. I got on my high horse and yelled about generosity and stinginess for the rest of the light. Then we made a u-turn, and as we passed the slumped man, I saw that he was slumped over behind his sign because he was hiding the wireless color TV he was watching in his lap. That was the end of my change-giving for years.

The second was when I was about fifteen and had just discovered the joys of my own bank account and late night Walmart sprees(don't judge; in my town, that's Bergdorf's.) I was waiting in line with a friend, and this obviously homeless, decidedly dirty woman came up behind us, weeping to herself and muttering about getting home. We paid for our items, and saw she had a container of orange juice, and burst into tears when she saw she didn't have enough change and pocket lint to pay for it. We offered to drive her to where ever she needed to go, and it turns out she had been panhandling all day to earn a ticket home to Michigan, but hadn't made enough to buy food for the day. My friend and I pooled his beat-up Camaro and 60 dollars from my checking account to get her to a greyhound station. She asked for my address, saying she'd pay us back when she got on her feet. We knew we'd never see that money again, but didn't particularly care. Two years later, I received an envelope with 60 dollars in ones and fives, carefully wrapped in torn-out notebook paper. That lady is the reason I still give change to strangers, even if I know it's going to booze and cigarettes.

Aratweth, that second story made me cry.

Also, I'm interested in knowing: has anyone here actually been homeless? If so, what was the reason why/how long was it for?

I agree with everything Katie said. That was a much more eloquent post than I would have been able to come up with.

I remember back in high school we wanted to do something for the homeless in the middle of winter but past the Christmas Season- mainly because peoples' collective charity is all tapped out after the holidays and yet the homeless still need to eat. So about of dozen of us held a blanket and clothing drive to give what we collected to the local homeless along with some food in the form of sandwiches and packaged snacks (like peanut butter & crackers). The idea behind this was if we couldn't convince some of these folks to head for the local shelter during the deep freeze New England is famous for, then we could at least provide them with some extras to help survive. Hey, we were naive and hopeful teenagers.

When we arrived at the park to give out what we brought, we were met with anger and annoyance; not because we were offering help which might have made them felt patronized, but because the help didn't come in the form of cigarettes, booze or money. I'm not kidding. We were pelted with the sandwiches we gave out, had two of our blankets we brought returned to us freshly urinated on and free "Spaz-O-Grams" for each and every one us. Not one blessed "thank you"and not one item used for its intended purpose. Before that day most of us believed that most homeless were mostly simply human beings who were in need of help. We set out to treat these folks as we wished to be treated if we were in that situation- with a little compassion and humanity especially when it wasn't just in season to do so. I don't think any of us thought we'd save the world that day, but none of us expected that kind of reaction either. I know if I were homeless, cold and hungry on the streets, these might be some of the things I might appreciate getting, especially from kids. I think what has saddened me is that I allowed that day to change my outlook on many of the people I see on the streets. I got just a little more jaded wondering if some of these people are there not of misfortune but of their own doing and whether or not they'd take the opportunity for better if offered.

To this day I still don't understand why some homeless people seem to want to remain frozen, hungry and selectively begging. (yes, I'm sure some of their mental health might be factored in, but there's still the whole survival instinct to consider) An experience like that makes regular people who want to help reluctant to do so when the only "help" being asked for is the kind that does more harm than good. I'm not saying I no longer wish to help, but it certainly made me a bit more selective on who to offer it to and how. There in fact are people out there who do need and appreciate help in any shape or form, and it is our responsibility when we find them to take a balanced gamble offer it up when we can.

What Katie and Littlejon2001 said.

Kind of a funny piece, though. However, I knew I'd see ignorance in the comments - reactions of white boys blind to their privilege just because they aren't wealthy, and misconstruing the meaning of the post. I hereby declare Kevin, Bones, and D-Day to be knuckle-dragging enema bags.

FOR ONCE AND FOR ALL, class doesn't matter - if you're white and male, you enjoy privileges that the rest of us don't. Read this and don't bother responding to me about it because I won't respond back. I don't do racism/white privilege 101 because it's not my responsibility.

Rest in Peace, that was a great article.

Some of you are taking Mr. Harris FAR too seriously.

I agree with you littlejon, I'm not sure I find the humor in this piece. If sarcasm was intended it...well...kinda missed.

I live in NYC and grew up around both San Francisco and DC - panhandling and begging is par for the course if you spend any time in any of these cities.

Also par for the course is the realization that the vast, vast majority of the homeless are suffering from various degrees of mental illness - the least of which would make it hard to hold down a job, the most of which would have made them lifetime institution dwellers not fifty years ago. America decentralized its mental health systems (for better and worse) and when the major institutions closed in each region, their inmates were dumped on the street.

Do I hate getting hassled? Sure. As a woman, there's the added nervousness that comes from the experience of being pursued by the emotionally disturbed man who just asked you for change (this has happened to me on more occasions than I would like to admit).

But I'm a "There but for the grace of God go I" kind of girl. I have a vast and disturbing family history of mental illness; I know that I'm one batch of bad brain chemicals away from the Subway Crazies on any given day. That lady in the corner talking to herself and holding a cup for spare change? I see myself in her.

Tracer, I totally get what you were going for and I even chuckled a little - but I don't feel like this one landed the way you hoped.

There was a dude here in Portland who did backflips for a buck. He made a good amount of money that way, and no one seemed to begrudge it.

And give me a fucking break. Harris is no racist. He hates EVERYONE EQUALLY.

RobP, that quote was from the sadly departed Greg Giraldo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ahlWufJqcSQ

Snuggiepants: I understand, but my idiot 18 year old self said: Mom went to UMass Boston and it's a pretty good school. But it got her precisely NOWHERE. This school is giving me enough scholarship that it'll be the same price as if I went to UMass without one, so why not?
Answer: Tuition kept going up, in degrees so large neither I nor my mother could have expected nor prepared for. My scholarship went up too, but not to the degree it was percentage-wise (in respect to freshman year). And when it got to the "shit, we can't pay this" point, it was either find the money to continue or start all over again. This happens A LOT apparently.

A few years ago I was between jobs and almost broke. Walking through town one afternoon I realized that I was being asked for "a few Euros" every few minutes. Not a few cents mind you, but a few Euros.
After about an hour of this, a homeless woman with few teeth and an open beer can came up and requested the obligatory few Euros. I snapped. I told her I had no job, no prospects of one in the future, no savings, no idea how I was going to pay bills or even, and I certainly did not have a few Euros for her.
She looked at me for a beat and then said - with honest compassion - "Aw, do you want a beer?"
It suddenly dawned on me that my life was so screwy that a homeless woman was holding out a fresh can of beer in the middle of Vienna in broad daylight. What can I say? I had a beer with her and her friends on a street corner.

On a different note, we have beggarsbeing transported here daily from Eastern Europe by the busload, mainly cripples and women with infants. It's completly mob-organized and they have to hand over the cash at the end of the day. I buy them food and juice when I have the cash. But I always give cash to my old aquaintances at the street corner, who still greet me by name.

Being white is like having a free $5. Be white and go into Burger King with no money. Order a Whopper and see if they don’t give you $1.50 in change.

That was funny as shit. Sounds vaguely of Chris Rock, but still damn funny.

Giving to beggars encourages them to beg. I prefer to donate to the food bank or shelters where I know the money will actually be used for food. There are jobs out there. They may not be "good" jobs or match your qualifications, but you can't tell me every fast food joint, retail establishment, etc is full up. Most of us have sacrificed and scraped at one time without resorting to begging from strangers.

EJ, I think some people would argue that addiction itself is a mental illness.

I usually give but it's a personal choice. I volunteered/worked at a shelter for a long time too so I'm not one of those disillusioned girls who thinks every homeless person is just a nice person, down on their luck.

There's one man who I absolutely loved every time he stopped by the shelter and he's what you would call a "Lifer" who sits in the same spot downtown every day. To this day, whenever I go out to eat downtown I'll always ask them to pack up half the meal before they bring it out to me and then drop it off to him on my way home. I always tell him he's an important part of my weight maintenance efforts.

And Tracer's hilarious. If you don't like it then go *serve someone lunch at a soup kitchen. He is obviously joking and I don't even wanna read the PC bullshit you a-holes would have him write instead.

*this used to say "fuck yourself" but thinking about homelessness, I realized your time can be better used.

Why am I supposed to feel sorry for someone who has a hundred grand in student loan debt?

You're not, and I didn't ask for pity. I made the choice to go to a private school instead of a state school. In most ways it was a good choice, and really the only way it's biting me in the ass is the debt. It was my choice and I don't need pity, and I don't regret it. But I also find it offensive that someone else feels the need to belittle any possible struggle I may ever have in my life because I'm white. Guess what? I racked up that debt AFTER getting half my tuition paid for through scholarships, but had I been a black applicant from a slightly poorer neighborhood (literally, had my parents made 20,000 less per year), it would've been a full ride. An uncomfortable truth, maybe, but a truth nonetheless. So yeah, in general, being white is easier than being black, but there's a small slice of us white folks who slip through that incredibly generalized crack, so shut the fuck up about how peachy and perfect my life is because I'm white.

My point is, we all have our highs and lows, and cheapening someone else's lows because of their skin color is fucking lame. And doesn't really do anything to advance the discourse because it's a load of bullshit to think that a homeless white person and a homeless black person aren't equally fucked in the A. Being homeless would fucking blow, and I'm thankful every day that I'm lucky enough to have an education and a job, and it's for that reason that if I have spare change, I absolutely give it to someone who asks for it. I don't give a shit what they're spending it on.

There are 3.5 million homeless people in the US, roughly 1.3 million of which are children. They are frequently families, but they're also veterans, schizophrenics, or other handicapped or disabled persons. The line that they should just get a job, or that you've worked hard for your money so why should they get it for free, grossly oversimplifies the issue, and ignores the volumes of sociological, medical, and societal issues that lead to homelessness.

You want to know why the homeless sometimes have nice clothes? Because rich people donate last year's clothes to shelters. Seriously. That's how you end up seeing beggars in FuBu.

Example: A young man is abused at home, and runs away. He finds solace in drugs. He eventually checks into rehab, but now he's in his 20's, he's never finished high school, he's got no permanent address and no work history, and is probably barely literate. This is not an uncommon scenario. And the solution is "get a fucking job"? How? Even McDonald's asks for an address, and that's assuming you're literate enough to read the goddamn application. And yes, there are resources available, but they're limited and localized and someone has to tell you how to get them, and how to navigate the bureaucratic systems that come with them.

Not to mention the vast numbers who were prematurely released from mental institutions and have no access to medication, and thus they wander the streets, muttering to themselves, as we point and snicker.

I'm not saying you should give to panhandlers. That's a personal choice, and you're right -- it is your money. But don't be an asshole. Don't deride and insult the homeless, to their face or behind their back. Don't act like they're all just lazy bums (though some of them may well be). But have a little goddamn compassion, and don't just think of your own circumstances.

You've pulled yourselves up from your bootstraps, and that is to be commended. But even the poorest, most hard-working, most disadvantaged among you have had opportunities that many have not.

I apologize for the rant. I really do. But I work with this population for a living, and it's given me a bit more insight. And I realize that Jason was only half-serious.

But on the eve of Veteran's Day, of all things, taking shots at a helpless population (regardless of race) that includes a staggering number of vets, seemed particularly unpleasant.

I was just thinking about this last night, after being hit up for cash at the gas station. It was the usual story, guy just arrived in town and had car trouble and only needs help getting a bus ticket back home for himself and his wife.

Except...this gas station sits in front of an extended stay motel where the local druggies hang out. Every fucking time I buy gas there, I get the same goddamn story.

Zero points for originality, dude. Also? It helps your presentation if you don't have the shakes while you're going from car to car.

Damn it pissed me off. I think of all the help I've had in my life to have my comfortable-but-not-lavish existence, and I truly do enjoy paying it back. And then I think of the lowlife drunk druggie scum my ex-husband took up with, and how they helped him fuck me over, and it pisses me off even more that I know these people exist and laugh at the people who give them money.

Having to beg for charity is a complete sacrifice of dignity- I don't think the people who have to do it take it lightly. I think the "get a job" attitude is tired and ignorant. I'm glad your life has been easy enough that you believe it's that simple. Even if you don't want to spare any of your change, is it really that difficult to politely respond with "I'm sorry" rather than being rude about it? Even if you are not capable of compassion, you could at least manage basic civility.

The one homeless story that really sticks out in my mind was when my boyfriend and I were going out to get a quick dinner one night. The second we hopped out of his Jeep, a man approached us and started explaining how he was a veteran from the Gulf War and started saying a bunch of numbers and throwing around "battalion" and "division" and all that.

My boyfriend, being a veteran himself (and a huge military history buff), curiously asked him where he was stationed. The dude names some fort or whatever, and my boyfriend says "Let me show you something."

He walks over and points to the Ranger sticker on the back of his Jeep. He explains that the unit that the dude said he was in is not and never was stationed at the fort he had said. The dude tried to backtrack and say he had said the wrong thing, he was confused, etc. but it was pretty obvious that this dude had just memorized some routine and recited it to people who didn't know any better.

My bf told the dude that he probably would've given him a few bucks if he had just asked rather than lying about it. The dude tried arguing with him but we just walked away. It was scary.

Similar to Stardust's story... A friend of mine was asked for change on the main street in our small college town. He gives the guy a couple of bucks and as we walk away, the guy says, "$2!?! That ain't enough!"

So my friend calmly turns around and says, "You are a derelict. Not an investment banker. It is not your job to tell me whether my investments are sound or not. You buy wine. That's your job."

Heroic.

KBalls - I don't understand everything you do, but I do understand sarcasm when I see it.

I'm a veteran and KNOW that there are plenty of programs available to help EVERY SINGLE VETERAN avoid homelessness. Counseling, track-out programs, G.I. Bill, etc. You can even get a GED in bootcamp. Just ask my wife.

Are there some unfortunate homeless folks out there? Of course. But breaking it all down into minute little details is insane. There are shelters, free food programs, government assistance, and military service for those of the right age. Are these ideal situations for people to get out of poverty and homelessness? Probably not. But it's one fuck of a lot better than most other countries.

All that said, I feel terrible for kids stuck on the streets and know that it's the real issue gnawing at the gut of this discussion. Welfare and food stamps are supposed to help these kids and their parents, but unfortunately, many able-bodied people take advantage of the system and make it harder for those who truly need it. You want to help homeless people? Start cracking down HARD on people scamming our government out of billions of dollars every year that could keep children off the streets.

Homelessness will never completely go away, but that doesn't mean that homeless people and the government can't get up and be pro-active to help each other. (And handing food directly to customers isn't the only job available in this country. That's an inflammatory argument only meant to provoke and I know that you're better than that, TK.)

Someone asked if anyone here has been homeless. I have.

Not to the extent, maybe, that the "beggers" Harris was talking about were, but I was still homeless for about six weeks. And I was very lucky.

Bear in mind: I'm a student at a prestigious Canadian university, unemployed and living off what my parents generously choose to give me, plus my savings. I had just left res and moved into my first apartment. I went to the movies one night and as I came back, I saw that there was smoke pouring out of my building and people congregated on the street.

I hung out on the street til about four AM, because no one (not the police, not the firemen, no one) could or would tell us when we could go back home. Long story short, I ended up couch-surfing for the next six weeks.

I am very lucky. Most of my stuff was undamaged (except by smoke and water) and I am now living in a new apartment.

I had friends who were trustworthy and willing to take me in rent-free, for those six weeks I had nowhere to go.

But the thing about being homeless is this: it's fucking scary. Your life collapses down around you, and having a home is one of those things people take for granted. It's the bare minimum of necessity, right? Having a place to hang your hat, a place to go to sleep at night? When you're not sure you have those things, it's exhausting and terrifying.

I became sick from the fear and stress, and lost ten pounds in a month. My six-week long cold became strep throat. I was running out of money.

And I was lucky! I had friends who gave me their living room couch, I had enough money to buy food (mostly), I never had to use the number of the youth shelter.

It's the fear I want to impress upon you. I didn't "look homeless", I never had to sleep on the streets. I'm not an addict, and my mental illness has been managed without problems for years. In other words, my homelessness was the result of bad luck. Who can say the same couldn't happen to anyone?

I never begged for money, and I don't always give to those I see on the streets. That's a personal decision, and I'm not telling you my story to make your decide to give money to that dude on the corner. I'm telling you so that you know that homeless people (whether they're like me, or not) are also people, and that no one, NO ONE, chooses to be in that position.

Have some human decency.

How EXACTLY was he being racist, BigTodd? Explain it to me...

by saying that some how white people don't have the right to ask for help, he is elevating one race above the other, that is racist. If I said something similar about black people all of you would be torching me and have the overlords kick off here and you know it

oh wait racism is ok as long as it is grammatically correct I understand now thank you for setting me straight

Listen up, BigTodd. Firstly, welcome! We are a pretty cool bunch of people. We’re open and understanding and always in the mood for a good conversation (movies, music, politics, pandas and a centipede [sometimes]). That said, you might want to acquaint yourself with the writers of this here blog. The post above is meant to be funny. (“Ha Ha”

Try adding a little bit of sugar to your morning tea.

Listen up, BigTodd. Firstly, welcome! We are a pretty cool bunch of people. We’re open and understanding and always in the mood for a good conversation (movies, music, politics, pandas and a centipede [sometimes]). That said, you might want to acquaint yourself with the writers of this here blog. The post above is meant to be funny. (“Ha Ha” -- like that) I understand that you might not have found it humorous; none of us are perfect. But please don’t unjustly attack Mr. Harris without knowing his intent.

Try adding a little bit of sugar to your morning tea.

Poor you and your white guilt! I guess I didn't realize how hard it was for you to live with it, what with me having to deal with fucking racism every goddamn day and all. The guilt must be AWFUL! Poor you, being white and targeted for that! Who else could imagine having to deal with that?

Oh yeah! Every black person for CENTURIES! Suck it up, buttercup. If we can deal with it, so can you.

And don't give me your bullshit about not enjoying white privilege. You're so used to it that you don't even know you have it.

As for the grammar, you know that it's awful and yet you make no steps to improve it? The perfect example of a lazy person who wants to be taken seriously but won't put in the effort it takes.

Hmmm. I knew that something evil was near when I was PHYSICALLY STANDING NEXT TO MR. HARRIS, some sort of impending dread doom and physical violence was afoot.

I knew that when he shook my hand, he had to fight his baser instincts that instructed him to rip it off and feed it to a pack of feral black children. He seethed as his inability to rip my wallet from me and spread my hard eanred (Judeo-)Christian dollars to the minority masses.

I knew that his every word was coated in hours of ritualized acting, standing in front of a mirror in order to rehearse out his flaming hatred towards members of the caucasian persuasion. You could just tell he wanted to spit napalm on me and break out a book of matches.

He even had the wherewithal and the audacity to change his voicemail message! I'm no dolt; I know that his standard greeting is a quotation from his favorite militant anti-white hatespeaker. "Leave a message and I'll get back to you" my ass...

The friendly "thanks you"s, the false pleasantries, all of it a ruse. Why, if I didn't know better, any minute we may have turned a corner into an alley full of seedy dark-skinned characters with blunt implements and homemade shivs, ripe for vicious beatings and stabbings.

Never again will I be fooled by the likes of Mr. Harris, never again I say...

p.s. Your grammar does matter, dipshit. When you're trying to establish yourself through typspeak as a respectable authority in commentary, demonstrating the ability to understand even the most basic complexities of the English language, and the manual dexterity to connect the thoughts from your brain down through your mutant spinal column to your fingers, sure helps. It leads us to believe you are actually an educated, deep-thinking and able-bodied person, whereas coming off like a cow farting into a TTS program bring us, well, to where we are at present.

Now I think I'll adjourn, and leave my friend Jason a message further mocking you.

Thanks Trouble. And no, I don't think that fucker in the header pic looks like me. One, I don't have long hair anymore. Two, I can properly maintain my beard. Three, I wouldn't be begging for food...next to a dumpster. Four, I would never wear those colors. Five, I'm not that fat. Aside from that? He does kind of look like me.

As for the article...I gotta admit. I didn't find it funny at all.

my family was'nt even in this country... we were somewhere else having racial intolernaces heeped on us. However that's ok. Because my skin is pale so I must have owned slaves, and told people to get off my lunch counter.

How long do people that were not involed in the racial intolerance of this country pay for it just because we happen to have a skintone simlar?

Wanna talk about centuries of racial inequalties? talk to a jew, enslaved by pharoh(an african), slaughtered by millions in europe(the whites),all the history inbetween, and hated by the arabs. Not allowed to defend they're own country the way the see fit.

However they look white so whatever it's ok, right?

I ONLY ***LOOK*** WHITE, MOTHERFUCKER! I love it, it's my new motto.

I once made a sign that said, "Will work for sexual favors...and pot."

As for the food? I would dumpster dive before I literally begged.

Snuggie, you should totally tattoo that. On your breastices.

"How long do people that were not involed in the racial intolerance of this country pay for it..."

I wasn't involved in it and I'm still paying for it. Black people have to pay for it EVERYDAY FUCKING DAY. And we didn't start that shit. Not only that but I'M NOT EVEN BLACK. I'm Hispanic (with black ancestors) but does that stop people from automatically assuming that I'm a black woman? Nope.

Like I said, SUCK IT UP. Think about this, doll: No matter what country whence you came, you're still white and you still enjoy that privilege in THIS country.

I'm not saying that other people haven't been oppressed. What I'm talking about is your belittling the fact that I can't even walk down the street without being judged for something I have no control over because you have to deal with guilt. Fuck your guilt. Like I care how you feel when I'm trying to overcome people constantly rejecting me because of the way I look.

EJ: Are you the police officer I saw in my n'hood's subway station yelling "You can't stay here - you have to leave! Get out of here!" at an elderly homeless guy who was passed out on the ground on a cold day? Because you were responsible for my "I can't live here anymore" moment (this week's, at least).

"I had a sergeant who would always say "there but for the grace of God go I," which is total bullshit."

Thank God there are people in charge with some compassion in law enforcement. The homeless are typically mentally ill and helpless - seriously. Do you think they're ranting and raving because it's a lot of fun? I have done homeless advocacy as a lawyer and it is a profoundly difficult way to live, even for the "lucky" ones who are in shelters. Sure, they can be scary and smelly and unpleasant and don't always thank you nicely for how goddamned magnanimous you are, but it is almost always due to circumstances beyond their control combined with a weak social network and a for-shit safety net.

I always think to myself when I see the homeless, beggars, etc. "That's somebody's son/daughter." Honestly, people. Get some compassion.

I was wondering how long it was going to take BigTodd to come 'round here and make this post and comment thread all about him.

Huh, who left this minefield here? Let me sashay on in...I can't be the only person who gives out money on a case by case basis right? I mean my philosophy of a social safety net and personal responsibility notwithstanding, I'm just much more likely to make a judgement call. The guy in college who told me he worked on the space shuttle fuel tanks, and if he didn't get some gas for his car there would be an "interstellar incident"? That guy got money. The guy who stood in front of my sister in law outside a movie theater at 10 at night, and started telling her a sob story about his car, while holding onto her arm leaning over her and not letting her move? That guy got no money, and we had a discussion about proper decorum. Generally threatening, yelling or cursing is a straight out hell no. Race isn't as big as age, location, attitude, gender(yeah, sue me okay?) and my disposition that day. So perhaps everyone should "get a job" but that's in the same perfect world where the good are rewarded, the evil are punished and nothing unseen ever happens.

I HATE THE HOMELESS.

*flips page*...ness problem.

Say, all you whiteys who think that blacks have it better than you! Ever hear of redlining? You might want to do a little reading (something other than the funnies page in the paper, I mean) before you start sticking feet in your mouth. This is something that STILL HAPPENS, NOW. Not hundreds of years ago. Do you honestly think that once Lincoln signed his little piece of paper, blacks have had it free and easy ever since?! Do you honestly believe that bigoted employees of companies don't find a way around "Affirmative Action" and excuses to not hire black people, Latinos, Asians?!

THAT'S what white privilege does for you. You don't even realize that this shit goes on. NOW. In 2010. Not 1000 years ago, not 500 years ago, not 300 years ago, not 75 years ago. NOW. STILL. It's been happening ALL ALONG. It's just gotten more subtle.

BigTodd,

What is your obsession with guilt? Seriously. It's startling. If your ancestors were nowhere near America back in the day, why does it consume you so? I'll repeat the sentiment raised by Snuggiepants: Who is holding you responsible for slavery? Is there some crazy black guy in your neighborhood who follows you around accusing you of hoarding slaves in the 1850s? Your entire attitude seems unneccessarily confrontational and defensive. I'm not trying to harp on you. You just really, really confuse me.

no it's not about me directly, so I'm supposed to turn a blind eye to racism?

Mel Gibson did'nt call you sugartits Lindsay does that make you like him now?

Hey Mr Harris, Micheal Richards did'nt specifically call you a N@#ger so it's ok to like him now.

You don't care about the struggle that an entire race of people had to go through at the hands of another race? No, that doesn't quite make you racist.

It does, however, make you an intolerant, and unfeeling asshole. But since you seem pretty used to that, I'm guessing it doesn't matter much to you.

Damn, my commas are getting away from me today!

Mel Gibson did'nt call you sugartits Lindsay does that make you like him now?

Well, I can say that if he had, he would be being very generous.

Well, until now I didn't fully realize I was debating someone who was only functionally literate. I have a policy against that, so carry on feeling persecuted, BigTodd.

Rest in Peace, we're down like two flat tires, homie...

You fucking get 'em, Trouble. You know I'll back up you and your glorious Afro with my 2.5 inch bludgeoning heels.

Also, I like Snuggie's idea of hugging random black people. In fact, I think I'll start right now. There has to be a black person this building. But I ain't hugging Jason. He'd probably try to grab my ass.

no Rykker Veterans rule this day but that is off topic

As Tracer's self proclaimed nemesis, I demand a lynching.

And I can't tell you all how disappointed I am in you. Over 16 hours of fighting, troll baiting, and racial hatred, and not once, NOT ONCE has anyone said it:

RAAAAAAAACE WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR!!!!!!!!

Alright look, I've calmed down a bit. But yeah I'm still pissed.

I'm not sitting here like Bigtodd complaining that my life is so hard because I've got light skin, or that white guilt has me tore up inside. Cause it definitely doesn't.

But do I get upset by people throwing around the phrase white priveledge? Yeah. Here's a concept Maybe life is fucking hard for EVERYONE. White, black, male, or female things are hard nowadays.

Someone asked earlier if anyone's ever been Homeless. Well hmm yeah I have. I'm not asking for pity and I sure as hell never asked for a handout. I worked a job until I saved up enough to get a place and lived in my car. I never spare changed or asked for a dime from anyone. 2 months yeah it's not the end of the world. But I guess my white priveledge gaurd was expired for that time period huh?

Here's a thought. Maybe Being poor fucking sucks. Maybe no matter what color you are, if you are born beneath the poverty line, It's a pain in the ass climbing above it. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt to anyone in that position regardless of the color of their skin. I don't care that you don't wanna give someone money because their a bum. I don't either. But making a point of saying you don't want to do it because they're white? Well yes that IS racist. It would be racist if I said it about a black man, or asian or latino.

So I'm a knuckle dragger huh? Because I take offense to someone personally making offhand comments about race? Wow, real progressive there aren't ya? Forgive me, I thought the goal was equality and understanding, not underhanded offhand comments about how Unequal we're supposed to be.

I grew up in a fucking slum in the third poorest country in America, I went to inner city schools, and happened to give myself a good education from that enviornment. I've worked 5 days a week every week of my life since I was 13. This isn't a poor me story cause I could give a shit less about anyone's pity or pride. I'm just another person struggling to get by. So yes I do get upset when someone wants to act like my struggle means nothing, becuase I've had it so easy on account of the white free money check I've been written.

Wake up we live in a new age. And no not everyone is equal. Tough shit. It's all situational. But pardon me if I happen o think blindly making comments about ANYONE based on the color of their skin is a step in the wrong damn direction.

I'm not pissed because the article was written. I'm not pissed because Jason Harris maybe isn't the biggest fan of my honkey ass. Shit Paul Mooney is my favorite comedian and he hates me. My problem is that this article is HERE. One of the few places I can come to find intelligent people having honest conversations, generally without alot of hate or ignorance or prejudice. I was a little taken aback that the people so willing to stand up for the rights of Minorities, homosexuals, or the generally ostricized, are willing to throw all those concepts out the window, and it's ok because it's about white people. It's all about the individual, you know unless some of those people have it ok, and then well....fuck em.

Doesn't matter I shouldn't give a shit about what a bunch of people on the internet think. I guess It's my fault for thinking maybe you folks were better than that. Must be that cromagnon knuckle dragger coming out in me. Still I spoke out of turn, which I shouldn't have done. I forgot us white folk aint supposed to have us no 'pinions on race.

For Blank.

http://www.redroom.com/blog/tim-wise/when-exceptions-prove-rule-poverty-whiteness-and-privilege

I'm only reposting this link because you probably missed it before. I do not feel sorry for you, me, or anyone else. I have no use for people who do not even make one iota of effort to understand the privileges that they are born with. Therefore, I do not do racism/white privilege 101. So consider yourself lucky that I'm even reposting the link, because I could just go on mocking you in your frustration and ignorance. But that wouldn't be very nice of me, and I do my best to be nice.

while I have to disagree with blank about my self pity attitude, I do agree with many of his points about the whole white priveledge thing.

I too grew up very poor in the inner city, I too have had to rise above. My people have also been enslaved and persecuted. So that makes me a knuckledragger? this is Progressivism?

And Rykker don't try and compare people who post on here to people that have fought for your freedoms. it's just offensive

Actually I'm not gonna do this anymore. I don't feel like burning straw men all day. I'm not gonna buy into the race baiting bullshit. I'll be damned if I'm gonna play white devil. I'll be judged for what I've done but not for who I am.

Yeah my white priviledge has just been an absolute blast. I'll be at my mansion sipping martinis and rolling in my money.Good day.

I would Consider it an honor to be married to Mrs Palin but alas no...

I'm just a bored Marine with nothing better to do in between sipping champagne and choosing a pvt school for my kids

This is still going on?

You fuckers need a hobby.

Now I am convinced he's the First Dude. Maybe he's upset because Sarah didn't share any cookies with him.

I love how, when white privilege is mentioned, white people pop up with their bitter stories about growing up so desperately poor and somehow this PROVES that they have never once benefitted from the color of their skin.

First, I'd LOVE to see a white person say "you know what? I know I've probably benefitted from white privilege. It sucks that I have received things and opportunities that others have not because of the color of my/their skin."

So consider it said. I'm saying it. I'm POSITIVE I've benefitted from white privilege. Never asked for it or wanted it, but I'm quite sure it's there. Hell, it's there when I'm in a store and realize I could rob the place blind because the owner/manager is too busy giving the hairy eyeball to the African-American man who just walked in instead of watching the white woman.

It's there when I'm not pulled over for speeding, but the black lady with the K104 and Obama stickers IS pulled over for speeding. Guess who was going faster? Me.

It's there in such incredibly tiny insiduous ways you have to make a conscious effort just to see it sometimes. Like when I'm at work, at a meeting, and look around and realize almost all of the upper-level people are white in a school district in which only 18% of our students are white. What's up with that? I thought minorities automatically got some sort of special deal when it comes to jobs, huh?

I've seen it when the black kid is accused of cheating on a test, but the white kid sitting next to him isn't. (The white kid was cheating.) Because of COURSE the black kid would cheat, right?

Deep deep attitudes that come out in preference, favor, one-up and one-down, that's what privilege is about.

If you're white, you've experienced it, no matter how poor you've been, and no matter if you realized it or not. It's nothing to get defensive about. You probably didn't ASK for privilege. You might not even feel like you've received any special treatment. But just because you didn't ask for it, don't notice it and refuse to acknowledge it doesn't mean it's not there. It's there, honey bear.

Now the next question is: what are you going to do about it?

And Rykker don't try and compare people who post on here to people that have fought for your freedoms. it's just offensive

Except that some of the people who post here actually have or are currently fighting for our freedoms. And some have sons or brothers or wives or daughters that are currently overseas.

Thank you for you sacrifices, Paji-veterans and Paji-service members.

And this is EXACTLY why I don't do racism/white privilege 101. You spell it out clearly, giving the other side an opportunity to educate themselves, and they'd rather keep thinking the way they do and make no effort to improve their understanding.

This is my own fault. I must punish myself. I'll be occupied with my cat-o-nine tails for the next hour or so - it's a good thing I like punishment. Too bad that last guy I talked to won't call me anymore, he would be excellent for this right about now.

you betcha

What's funny is that a lot of broke-ass white people are also really fucking racist. And have no problem justifying it, in fact, they use the broke-assedness to explain their racism. "No one ever gave me anything, so fuck you, black welfare recipients!"

Of course, most white people, no matter how poor, probably got handed something by somebody, at least once. A relative, a teacher, a friend, etc. But acknowledging that would make them seem less sympathetic, so they don't mention all the "handouts" they actually did get. And the ones they got by being white, who knows how many there were.

Seems impossible that there is no privilege to being white in this country. There's "privilege" to being the majority in any country, whatever that majority is (race, religion, etc.) I guess some people just figure that a handout for a black person harms them (the white person) in some way, though I've yet to hear how, exactly. Esp. when they claim they wouldn't accept a handout even if it was offered to them. People love to yap about their own bootstrappyness.

I do apologize to everyone for injecting a stupid response to Todd into this discussion.
I should have just ignored him, as was suggested.

Lesson learned.

Hee, Deist.

Rest in Peace I read the article and thought it was fantastic and very thoughtful. Would that more people would read it (and understand it).

Two points.

1. Find TK's post up there. It's well-written and something that needs to be said. Well done, TK.

2. In response to the comment that there are systems in place for homeless veterans, you are absolutely correct. However, often, those same veterans have severe PTSD or other mental issues as a result of what they've seen in deployments. Because mental illness still has such a bullshit stigma, they don't seek help and suffer in silence. As a result, they end up homeless in a system that by all reason, is designed to help them. They fall through the cracks all the time. It's horribly sad and they fucking deserve better.

Oh, and before someone jumps on my ass about that, my husband is a Marine who went to the giant sandbox in 2003. My grandfather is a veteran of the Korean War. Those men deserve better than a system that often fails them. They damned sure don't deserve suffering in silence and ending up on the streets.

Look First off

I'm genuinely fucking sorry. I let myself start speakin before I gave myself a chance to cool down. That was stupid. I've said some unacceptable things on here out of anger, and I really hope I didn't offend most of you. I started saying some really callous shit, and though it was directed at RIP who is kind of being an ass. It still isn't okay.

I'm not denying the struggles of the average blak individual. They exist and I'm aware of that. I just think that the ability to see things as whie privilege vs. blak struggle is refusing to look at the whole situation. I actually did read that article RIP. It had some good points, but pardon me if I disagree. we see the issue from different sides. That's the basis of all informed discussion. I fucked up by getting angry instead of trying to have a conversation. Despite the fact you seem pretty deadset on ignoring any viewpoint that disagrees with yours. Hey that's your right.

I would just hope that as a society we could try on both sides to move towards viewing people as individuals and not the collection of biases based on their physical traits.

Does masturbation count as a hobby?

I don't know, but I think everyone could use some

*Bunk Time*

to diffuse the heated argumentation up in this joint.

JenVegas,

Thanks for the shout-out. Back in the day (first 2/3 of the '90s) I lived in NYC. I might have seen that dude. But seriously, I've seen many, many homeless dudes, including here in Seattle, touting the United Negro Pizza Fund.

Rest in Peace,

Thanks so much for the link to that article. That's a really concise, well-done piece of writing. I sent it to my mom (she's a teacher, and she loves a well-argued article) and she was all over it.

And seriously, I wrote a long comment early last night that got moderated, and believe me, it weren't nothin' compared to race wars that followed, but basically, I was agreeing with BSlim's comment that a few bad breaks could put most of us in that situation, and I consign all of Anna von Beav's comments, and I do subscribe to "there but for the grace of God go I"** / "for whatsoever you do to the least among you, you do also to me" philosophy. And socialism. The end.

**Except I don't actually believe in God and I'm not religious.

Kballs, thanks to you and your wife.

I know several guys who went to the sandbox multiple times and now take so many meds as a result of what they saw/experienced, it's just sad. The VA's working on the issues surrounding PTSD and the treatment of returning service members. It's not enough and more needs to be done. You can't repair the damage, but you can help them to get by. HBO will be premiering a new doc tonight about PTSD/shell shock from the Civil War to today tonight. It's called Wartorn. It's at 8 pm CST, I think.

As for welfare, I grew up in a very poor part of the country. I've seen some epic abuses of the system; including people getting checks for being too fat to work. I've seen people study how to flunk the test for mental retardation. It makes me sick and angry. Welfare needs reform. Pouring more money in isn't the answer. Fix the standards to get it in the first place. I've worked damned hard to get what I have and I still do. I hate seeing people who don't fucking want to work get what could help those who need it.

...fucking keyboard.

Should my situation not change drastically in the next two weeks, I will be one of those people you see on street corners, holding a sign. I hope that I don't run into a good many of you.

PIIIIIIIITTTTTYYYY WAAAAAAAAAARRR!!!!

Well, my people have definitely been hurt more than yours.

What? Your people, no way. My people have been hurt way more.

Go take your meds, MY PEOPLE have been hurt WAAAY more than yours.

NO NO NO. My people have been hurt more than anything in the world.

OH YEAH. Well, my people have been hurt more than anything in the universe. So THERE.

Snuggiepants, semper fi and many prayers to your husband and all the other veterans out there from an old dumb Marine

Sometimes, I beg for scraps, but my dads tell me to go lie down.

did'nt know it was a pvt party, why are you afraid of people with different views jane doe? I know you think they are stupid, and I'm not the most articulate. however pretty sure I've earned my right to freedom of speech just like I earned it for you

Um, why is the reaction many of you have to this article to compare the apparently stingy actions of the poster with republicans and "would be" Christians?

Perhaps you all haven't heard, but despite the fact that liberals love spending other peoples money (I.E., taxes,) on social causes, the apparently don't love spending their own money on social causes.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/conservatives_more_liberal_giv.html

and

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=2682730&page=1

Some fun facts to be gleaned:

-- Although liberal families' incomes average 6 percent higher than those of conservative families, conservative-headed households give, on average, 30 percent more to charity than the average liberal-headed household ($1,600 per year vs. $1,227).

-- In the 10 reddest states, in which Bush got more than 60 percent majorities, the average percentage of personal income donated to charity was 3.5. Residents of the bluest states, which gave Bush less than 40 percent, donated just 1.9 percent.

-- People who reject the idea that "government has a responsibility to reduce income inequality" give an average of four times more than people who accept that proposition.

--Conservatives also donate more time and blood.

It goes on to say that religious types are by far the most charitable, and the least charitable of all groups are secular conservatives.

Kevin! How's my cute little guy doing? If your dads ever refuse you snacks again, you come over to Aunt Scully's house and I'll give lots of treats! Mwah.

In an attempt to be serious(it actually causes me physical pain)

Spender,
I'm in St. Louis(not exactly right next door but not that far) so if you need a place to crash for a while look me up on Facebook.

I just want to get clarifaction, I'm supposed to feel guilty because the people in this country owned other people in this country before I got here? I'm not going to, because I'm not guilty of it.

I like how you are calling me a racist because I called someone on their racist statment, oh wait that was a joke. So it's a-ok

I wonder if I told a joke about black people if I could get my own article on here? Or is it making fun of homeless people? cause it seems to have gotten the job done this time

and HEAD EXPLOSION.

you need to read some shit about white privilege (if you are able). or you could just stomp your foot and say "i didn't own any slaves, so screw you!" and continue to be woefully ignorant.

side point: i'd like to institute a rule. let's call it a life rule: you are not allowed to bandy about the term "racist" unless you know what the fuck it means, and how it is different from the words "bias," "prejudice," and "stereotype."

there is not one statement in tracer's screed that is racist. NOT ONE.

and seriously, some of y'all need to go to a Sense of Humor store and buy the biggest one you can find. either that, or go find the biggest ass in town and jump directly up it.

For the record, I'm well aware that Harris isn't racist and that the post was meant in jest. I did state that I think this line of thinking -- a homeless black person is more sympathetic than a homeless white person, merely because of the color of their skin -- does smack of racism.

it's not racism. it's not it's not it's not. at best, it's prejudice or bias.

I just fell out of my chair laughing at ABL um that was in the very definition of racism above you

blank You do bring up a good point. I read that thing laughing almost the whole time because I was all "OH, TRACER! YOU'RE SO SILLY!"

hey she might be coolest person in the universe but she just admited to it being racist... oh wait bias because even though that means the samething it sounds better

Race + power = racism. I learned that on season one of The Real World.

I don't care who it is, if I make a racist, sorry, bias comment then I get called on it. so lets have so equallity shall we

It's not so much the begging that gets to me, it's the expectation or belief that you deserve something from people who do better than you do. I work as a server in a really busy restaurant, so for all intents and purposes, I'm a glorified beggar, though I do work really hard for the money that people give me. If you leave me $2 dollars on your $40 dollar check, I will hate you behind your back and tell my coworkers what an asshole you are, but I will still smile and tell you to have a nice day. Maybe the meal was more expensive than you thought it would be, and you simply couldn't afford to leave more. Either way, I will never ever say anything to you about it, because i'm doing my job and it all evens out in the end.
I'm rambling, sorry. In sum, if I pull into the parking lot of my job in my relatively nice car and i kindly tell the homeless man who sleeps there that I'm very sorry that I just don't have any cash, I don't appreciate it when he tells me that he's going to urinate on my "pretty car", because I can obviously afford to give him something and i'm just being a bitch (that actually happened). No one has ANY right to say that i'm doing anything wrong by saying i can't give you any money. You have your reasons for asking, i have my reasons for saying no. I also don't need to see your stupid papers that say that you are deaf or that you have aids or that you just need to get $15 together to stay at the shelter tonight and get some dinner. I wish that people would just say that they need money, accept it when people offer it, and be gracious when people don't. So thank you to the man who will never read this who always simply says "god bless you" when i tell him i don't have any cash that day, and looks at me like i'm Santa when i bring him a box of take out from work.
So thanks, Mr. Harris, for posting the beginnings of this sounding board. Did you ever think this article would generate so much discussion?

You know I'm extremely open minded but I absolutely refuse to listen to people who just keep stating erroneous facts at me like a motherfucking idiot.

And by that I mean, SHUT THE FUCK UP, BigTodd. At this point, you aren't adding to the discussion by being a devil's advocate. You're simply an tiny idiot (cock)roach who wants to be seen by the intellectual giants in the room. We keep stepping on you and you won't die. You just keep at it with your moronic statements. So goodbye. As far as I'm concerned, you no longer exist. Go ahead and keep exercising your right to free speech. I'll be over here talking to people who actually matter...

They are not synonyms for racism, BigTodd. A synonym is something that means the same thing. Bias IS a synonym for prejudice though. Racism is NOT the same thing.

Racism: hatred or intolerance of another race or other races

Bias: A preference or an inclination, especially one that inhibits impartial judgment.

You won't take this into account. You'll sit back and laugh at how successful your ignorance is at infuriating others. I was going to type a long rant of what you must be like as a person in the real world but I'm not going to get that hurtful.

go ahead Paultera pookie tried that and it made me and my friends laugh when we read it. We can giggle at it later while we are out celibrating later tonight...

Ooh, you "celibrate"? I take everything back. You must be the coolest guy around with your very own friends and keys...

No, BigTodd means he's celibate. Which I believe.

Oh, fuck you for trying to throw your military service into this again for some kind of attention. Just because you served does not limit anyone from calling you out as the prejudiced, biased, hypocrite sonofabitch that you are.

I'm a hypocrite too, by the way. By continuing to get pissed at you I'm just fueling what I hate. But that's one of the many differences between you and I. I can at least admit when I'm being an ass.

I've said many times that pissing you wannbe intelectuals off amuses me to now end...lol you have no idea

Watching you misspell the words intellectuals and grammar and probably not getting the irony of it (let alone the meaning of the word)amuses ME to NO end.

"celibrating" is a good word. The desire to go off and have fun without having sex.

Blank, you seem pretty reasonable, and you've said you're open to a different point of view. So why haven't you looked at the article that Rest in Peace linked to (twice)? It addresses exactly the questions you raised in your last comment.

Article about White Privilege

BigTodd

You've repeatedly mentioned that "your people" (that's to mean it's a quote from your own posts, not as a sarcastic or warping of your own words) were oppressed as well. Just who exactly are "your people"? (again, this is to mean it is a quote, not a sarcastic or warping of your words)

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you, like everyone else seems to be. It also doesn't mean that I agree with you, but I'm just genuinely curious.

With that in regard, do you think that the people who have oppressed "your people" (see parentheticals above) feel a similar guilt in relation to "your people" (see parentheticals above) as well? Do you feel that they should feel guilt?

Oh, and to other people mentioned: what I've said about everyone seemingly trying to pick a fight with the commenter in question is merely an opinion. If you feel it to be any other way, I apologize and hope you understand.

Shit, why didn't anyone tell me we were fighting over here? I've been off pontificating on the cable-news-networks-are-too-mean-and/or-sensitive posts.

Actually, I think it is interesting watching Blank thrash about chasing his tail trying to fight off all these theories and biases and attacks from all these different people who really don't know anything about him and still be unable to get past their surface assumptions and their preconceived notions and get the clean blank slate that he is looking for so that he can just make people know who he is as a person. All he seems to want is for someone to acknowledge that they don't know anything about him and can't assume anything about him and that he is just... blank.

I may be crazy here, but it just feels like it might be a good metaphor for what we are trying to talk about.

(bear with me here)

I'm white, and I have no idea what it is like to not be white. I can't even imagine it. I don't think it is a terrible thing to not be white... I don't think it means you can't do things I can (or that you can do things I can't)... but it is different. And if you are black you are always black, like, all the time. You can't avoid it. People see you, and they see that you are black, and their complex brains process that simple fact in a variety of different ways. This cannot be helped, it is a fact of nature that we notice things like skin color and process them through our schema for black skin color and bring up all kinds of complex feelings (curiosity, reflexive guilt, apprehension, anxiety over how to act, a desire to be liked, a desire to keep our distance, mistrust, negative assumptions, etc, etc). They are not all bad things. Curiosity can be pretty neutral, or it can be a little condescending or patronizing. Same with wanting black people to like you (If black people could read minds they would laugh at most of us I am sure). Some people will have real negative reactions, some will embody what we think of when we think of overt racism, but many more will experience much more subtle and much more complex reactions. They make assumptions about a persons background, education, trustworthiness, compatibility. They make these assumptions in professional interactions, job interviews, classrooms, everywhere.

This happens automatically every time with everyone they meet. In fact, it happens all the time with everyone that everyone meets. We make assumptions and have automatic reactions to everyone. Race just happens to be a very big and obvious and unavoidable signifier. It is impossible to have a neutral reaction and a blank slate.

So the sum total of your life is infinitely complex and filled with millions of interactions with thousands of people who don't, won't, and can't know you and yet they still need to bring up a schema to process your existence in their head.

And black people and Muslim people and Asian people and women have these same experiences, too, except that their race (and/or gender) is always noticed and always plays a part in how they are seen. It happens to us white men, too, but we are kind of the default. The closest thing to a blank slate. And I am sure that black people react to white men differently and asian women react to white men differently and everyone has their own unique experiences and all that...

I'm rambling, and I don't exactly know how to wrap this up. I could tell you that I grew up in a poor neighborhood, too, with liberal parents who voted for Jesse Jackson and had black friends growing up, and that I put myself through school working in kitchens with lots of black line cooks and I am so not a racist... I still don't have any idea what it is like to be black. It's just complicated. You have to admit it is complicated. It is complicated for everyone, but it is complicated for black people and they are black. And it's not about history or slavery or oppression or anything so much as it is just about complexity and the inability to ever be neutral, blank.

Blank, I've got your back on this. That article is actually quite terribly argued and relies on the author's position of "authority" to give it clout. Anyone using that post as some sort of statement of fact needs to enroll in entry level logic classes at you local college.

You cannot argue about something so complex in so few words and use so few examples. It consists of declarative statements that rely on the reader to sympathise with it to work.

Having said that, I don't doubt that in many communities it will benefit you to be white. Though there will be many communities or groups where it will benefit you to be latino or black or oriental or a woman or whatever. Is it likely or possible that there are more situations where being white is a benefit? Yes but that is vastly oversimplifying to back up your view of the world.

Shit, I just refreshed and saw that there were some great posts in that time. Nothing more for me to say.

Yossarian, very well-put.

Skitz, where are you? Your missing out on a RACE WARRRRRRRRR!

Um...so, what's with the weird apostrophe usage, Big Todd? It's wouldn't, not would'nt. Ditto that for every time you placed the apostrophe before the n. I get that everyone is harping on you for your ideas...and your grammar...and your spelling...but, seriously, what the fuck is with that weird apostrophe placement?

I just fell out of my chair laughing at ABL um that was in the very definition of racism above you

shit, why do i bother with all this reading and scholarship about racism when i could have just looked up the definition on dictionary.com?

let's ignore the nuances that are inherent in the word racism. let's ignore the power element. let's ignore the historical element. you just go on feeling awesome because you didn't do nothin' so you ain't gonna feel guilty about nothin'.

good luck with that.

@EJ

Wow! A cop who has no sympathy for homeless people? That is truly bizarre. It's not like the only fucking people I ever see harassing homeless people are cops or anything. You fucking dick. You've got the gun and the right to abuse your power, so you're obviously a great fucking person. Here's hoping you get shot on duty.

A black loan officer has as much power to give loans to other blacks instead of whites. The CEO of an Asian company can choose to hire the equally as qualified Asian instead of the white guy.

And how many black loan officers are there? And how many Asians make it to CEO?

I understand what you're getting at, Some Guy, and I appreciate it. But I've been led to wonder if, even though I don't consider myself racist, there is some level of racism the is so deeply internalized that I don't even know I have it? For instance, when I walk to my car after a class, do I shrink away from that guy in the parking lot because he's menacing, or because he's black? Would I be watching him out of the corner of my eye if he were white? Or have I internalized a fear of men in general because I'm a woman? Or am I just nervous because I'm walking through a parking lot at night where people have been assaulted before? It's actually hard to say.

It's similar, I think, to the institutionalization of both religion and marriage in this country to the point where people are afraid to come out as atheists or someone who has no desire for marriage or children. DISCLAIMER: OBVIOUSLY I'M COMPARING TANGERINES TO ORANGES, AND SIMPLIFYING TO THE EXTREME. I DO NOT ACTUALLY EQUATE EITHER OF THOSE THINGS WITH RACISM. HENCE MY USE OF THE WORD "SIMILAR." But, because these things are "ideals" of this society, and therefore people are exposed to them and conditioned to them beginning at an extremely early age, whenever I tell someone I don't want to get married or have children, people react in a variety of ways: they assume I'm a lesbian (I'm not), or they assume I just haven't met the right man (I have), or they just flat out think something's wrong with me mentally or physically (they may not be far off on that one, actually). Again, different fruits, but do you understand what I'm getting at? Clearly, there are exceptions to every rule, but that doesn't make it not the rule. I don't necessarily agree with that professor, but I don't necessarily disagree, either. And you're right about one thing: At some point, it comes down to individuals. When you put a white loan officer in a room with a black applicant, or vice versa, if qualifications are met, it comes down to a personal decision to approve that loan. The white loan officer could approve the loan out of fear that the black applicant might retaliate in some way if denied, or the black loan officer could deny the white applicant based on a couple thousand or so years of oppression, or ANY combination of the same or other reasons. But, statistics do show that OVERALL, as an INSTITUTION, black people are less likely to get the loan (the house, the position, etc etc etc). Because that individual, personal choice is affected by internalized prejudices.

European history has never been my strong suit. :)

I'm sure BigTodd will be thrilled that you've vindicated his "people," whoever those might be (since he still hasn't answered the question).

I don't speak for BigTodd and I certainly am not trying to lessen the impact that African slavery had on african people and in america.

Under European Imperialism it became a deeply rooted institution, mostly due to the advances in technology, and it was a mighty oppressive one at that. I only meant to point out that in the grand scheme of things just about all races of people have been enslaved by others, including white europeans.

Dammit. Where *is* that sarcasm font?

Ooo, can I play? I am seriously late for this party. And since there are over 200 posts I'll probably kill this thread right now but I'm going to write anyway.

My first topic is BigTodd, though I hesitate to write anything lest it feed the ego that has me reading his name as BigHEADTodd. (Isn't that a band?) My second is about what I perceive to be the point of the article.

I have been reading Pajiba for a couple, three years? At least two, and while I don't manage to catch every article I do read 90% of them so I am familiar with the writers. And not just the paid ones. I am familiar with the eloquents. I recognize their names and have read quite of few of their personal blogs. While I don't agree with them all at all times, I have never seen the regular players act like petulant 16-year-olds who have too much time on their hands and are hopped up on too much caffeine.

Sadly, I have never made the eloquents list and even though I don't post often I have tried to come up with germane, relevant, respectful statements that contribute to the discussion.

When I first got here I did a lot of reading and then tentatively wrote a few comments. I familiarized myself with the protocol and just being a genuinely polite, nice kind of lady I didn't start any shit, fan any flames, or just be a common garden-variety asshole.

I read the thread last week about President Obama and the thread about mourning the elections and I realized that there was a new name that I had never read: BigTodd. I'd never seen his name on any of the reviews or PajibaLove, and while he may have commented on other threads he is all over the political ones, fanning the flames, saying shit that is just meant to incite, and then giggling with his friends. All of these lead me to believe he is just here for the bridge. Don't feed the BigHeadTodd. Don't feed the trolls.

Now, as to the article. I lived in Philly for two years during which time I could not find a job. For the first time since I was 18 I couldn't find employment. I have a BA in English and many years of editing/tech writing experience. (Please forgive any mistakes. I'm trying to get all of this out before I forget my points.) For the first time in my life I had to go on unemployment. I even tried for assistance but didn't qualify.

After almost two years of sending out resumes with not one, not ONE response, not even a courtesy "We're not hiring right now but will keep your resume should anything come up," I decided to do something different. I made one change and I sent those same resumes back to the same jobs. And I got responses. And better, I got interviews.

What made the difference? What was the change? I used my middle name. The one that sounds "white," I guess.

Take a look at my name. What color am I?

"So, in my opinion, any white person who says "There's no such thing as white privilege" is frankly not in a position to make that pronoucement."

I don't disagree with that statement, but poor-white people with no education, bad teeth and poor credit have it just as bad, and they might be inclined to disagree with the notion of white privilege. Just because white privilege exists for some or most whites does not mean that it applies to all.

And while I certainly can't say I know what's it's like to be black, I don't think people have a right to assume that they know what it's like to be a poor, uneducated white person unless they are one.

African American's and ethnic minorities might be doing poorly in this country compared to most whites, but in the end they can still blame history and white privilege for their predicament, and are backed in many ways by government regulations attempting to rectify the damages.

Poor whites are part of the privileged race, yet often receive none of he privileges and are considered failures and are ripe for satire in our society.

Try to imagine what it might feel like to be a poor white descendant of a early 20th century European immigrant who doesn't even reap the benefits of this "privilege," and yet is still being held accountable for it.

These people do exist, but because of their skin color, people assume that they have it easier than someone different.

Again, just hypotheticals here. Not generalizations. Not trying to trivialize anyone else's struggles, either. Just offering perspective.

Angry Black Lady, being the resident angry black lady, perhaps you could give us some solutions to white privilege that people like BigTodd might start to practice in order to combat the system his is unavoidably a part of.

In no way am I denying the existence of white privilege, but you, others on this site, and even my social equality professor who started off the class by telling everyone that all white people were inherently racist and that the purpose of the class was to fight white privilege, have never bothered to explain how your average descended-from-europe-white-guy might actually go about changing things.

um, wha!? i can guarantee that i have NEVER said that all white people are inherently racist.

dude, do NOT put words in my mouth. my mother is a white woman who went out of her way to adopt a black child. seriously. slow your roll.

(edited to fix stupid html taggery)

Sorry, ABL, I wasn't implying that you and my professor shared the same beliefs. I was just remarking that many people like to mention how white privilege exists to those who are unaware of it without offering a way to combat it.

shonda, i second what spender said. i actually meant to comment on your blog the other day, but then i saw some thing shiny.

Awww. My little cynical heart just grew three sizes. I don't get to my blog enough and now two people like it? I'm so happy!

Spender and ABL, I am over on the facebeast and I joined the pajiba group but I must be doing something wrong. I can't find people anyone. I want to play with the pajibans there. I want pajibuddies.

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