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Lay Down Your Burdens

By Daniel Carlson | Posted Under Lost Recaps | Comments (113)



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Last week’s “What Kate Did” was a decent enough episode that seemed to exist mainly for the final reveal that Claire is the new Rousseau or whatever, but last night’s “The Substitute” was markedly better for several reasons. For one, it provided definite clues toward some possible answers about big-picture stuff, and it also filled in some missing stuff in the alternate timeline that likely works for the original timeline. Most of all, though, it was a great Locke episode, and that meant it let Terry O’Quinn hold the spotlight as only he can. The minor tweaks in body language between his portrayal of Locke and the Enemy are fantastic, and episodes like this one are a reminder that he’s the strongest part of the show. (By the way, I know that fans and forums have him going by a variety of names —Fake Locke, UnLocke, the Locke-ness Monster, Esau, the Man in Black, etc., etc. — but for now, to keep things relatively simple, I’ll either refer to him as Fake Locke or just the Enemy.) Onward!

The Los Angeles Timeline
Lots of good stuff going on in this one. It kicks off with Locke heading home from the airport in his specially modified van, whose wheelchair ramp sticks halfway down. He throws himself out of it and tries to crawl away when Helen comes running out of the house to help him. Helen! This is definitely the timeline where things are, if not perfect, at least a good deal happier. Instead of being dead from a brain aneurysm and buried in Santa Monica, Helen is in love with Locke and planning to marry him the following month. She thinks it’s a good sign, maybe “destiny,” that Locke met a spinal surgeon on his flight, too. She even jokes about ditching the wedding plans altogether and grabbing her folks and Locke’s dad for a Las Vegas trip, which HOLD THE PHONE. How did Locke wind up in a wheelchair if he’s still apparently on good enough terms with his dad for this to even be a joking option? Is Anthony Cooper not a scheming con man in this timeline? Or did he just stop short of shoving his son out a window? Did he still seduce Sawyer’s mother? Whatever the case, he and Locke are apparently chummy, per this publicity still of Locke’s cubicle wall from ABC:

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(Is that beret just drawn on with a Sharpie?)

Locke’s still slaving away at that box company, though, which means dealing with RAAAAAAAANDY Randy, Hurley’s former boss from Mr. Cluck’s Chicken Shack. Randy knows Locke didn’t go to a conference in Australia even though he went on the company dime, so he fires Locke on the spot. Outside, it gets worse when Locke sees that a giant Hummer — Hurley’s — is parked too close to his van. He pounds on it and sets off the alarm as Hurley appears, but they actually wind up having a laugh when it’s made clear Locke was just wailing on the owner’s car. Locke says he just got fired by Randy, whom Hurley admits is “a huge douche,” but the fact that Randy’s even working there, and that Hurley knows it, seems to say that Hurley cut the guy some slack after the Chicken Shack fallout. Which of course raises the question: Did the Shack still get hit by a meteor in the non-crash timeline? Or did it close for more generic reasons, allowing Hurley to help Randy out anyway?

Hurley also owns a temp agency and sends Locke there, and Locke winds up interviewing with Lynn (the fake psychic Hurley’s dad hired for him in the original timeline) before talking with Rose, because apparently everyone still knows each other in this world in a huge way. Locke makes a stink about wanting to work a construction job, but Rose tells him she has cancer and has made peace with her own limitations and that Locke should do the same. The look on his face says he’s reluctant to see some of the truth in the moral, but he seems to go for it.

Later, Locke calls Jack’s office only to hang up, telling Helen he doesn’t want to do it. His missing briefcase of crazy knives arrives at home, and he cops to the fact that he was fired for going on a walkabout. He tells Helen he’s been trying to live like the wheelchair’s a temporary thing, which is cheating him out of his real life. Helen’s wonderfully sweet and understanding, and she tears up Jack’s card as a way to show she doesn’t care if Locke never walks again. It’s a nice moment, and good to see Locke finding some happiness.

He becomes a substitute teacher instead — the role is a nice play on what’s happening with his body and the Enemy back in the island timeline — and winds up at a school where I shit you not Ben Linus teaches European history and wears sweater vests. Did Ben ever go to the island, or was he taken off with the other kids in the evacuation shown in last season’s finale? The moment where he and Locke shake hands is jarring and pleasurable, the kind of weird twist only possible this far into a show this convoluted. And that’s Locke’s challenging but happy life away from the island.

The Island Timeline
Things are considerably less fun for the folks still on Craphole Island. The action kicks off with an awesome POV shot of the smoke monster flying through the trees, swinging through the Barracks, and heading back into the jungle and resuming its physical form as the Enemy masquerading as Locke. He picks up a machete and cuts down a giant bag from a tree that turns out to contain a beaten and genuinely scared Richard Alpert. He tells Richard that he wants Richard to come with him, and says he looks like Locke because he knew it was a way to get to Jacob. “John’s a candidate, or at least he was,” the Enemy says, then laughs when Richard doesn’t know what he means. He scorns Richard for following Jacob’s orders blindly but is distracted by the latest creepy thing to appear on the island: a blond boy with bloody arms, standing in a clearing and staring at both men. Richard doesn’t see the kid and says he doesn’t want to be in Fake Locke’s crazy new fun group at all, so they part ways. Apparently the Enemy can’t just take people, but has to persuade them to come along.

There’s also some action with the group left at the statue. Ben tells Ilana that Locke turned into the smoke monster and killed her friends, and he also blames the death of Jacob on the Enemy, too. It seems that no matter what changes might come in this ep, Ben wants no part of the penance for hurting Jacob. Ilana takes some of the fire pit’s ash as she tells Ben that Fake Locke made off with Richard because he’s “recruiting.” Ilana and Ben emerge to find that everyone’s made for the Temple except for them, Frank, and Sun, and of course the corpse of John Locke. Sun insists they bury him, so everyone sets out for the makeshift cemetery where Boone, Shannon, and some of the other survivors are buried. As they walk, Ilana tells Ben she brought the body so people would know what they’re up against, and when Ben suggests that the Enemy just change appearance again, Ilana counters that “he’s stuck this way.” They dig a hole and place Locke in it, and Ben actually steps up with a eulogy that appears to be somewhat heartfelt: “John Locke was a believer. He was a man of faith. He was a much better man than I will ever be, and I’m very sorry I murdered him.” Are we seeing an actual change in Ben? It’s amazing to think back to his Henry Gale days, when he was at the height of his ego and power, and look at how beaten and tired he’s become. Everybody takes the news of the killing in stride, and Frank just shrugs and mutters, “This is the weirdest damn funeral I’ve ever been to.” They toss in the dirt and move on.

Meanwhile, the Enemy heads to the Barracks for his next recruitment target: Sawyer, who’s drunk in his old house and listening to Iggy Pop sing “Search and Destroy.” Sawyer sets them up some whisky even as he asks who Fake Locke is, knowing he’s not the real John Locke because “Locke was scared, even when he was pretending he wasn’t.” The Enemy says he can tell Sawyer why Sawyer is on the island, and since it beats getting drunk alone, Sawyer goes for it. They head into the jungle when Fake Locke sees the creepy boy again, as does Sawyer. Fake Locke bolts after him (why not just become the smoke monster?) but eventually falls and looks up to see the boy standing above him. “You know the rules,” the boy says. “You can’t kill him.” The boy, who looks a lot like Jacob, turns and walks away as the Enemy yells, “Don’t tell me what I can’t do!” It’s a nice callback since he’s got Locke’s memories and is being thwarted all over again in his own pursuits.

While Sawyer’s waiting for Fake Locke to come back, Richard shows up and tries to get Sawyer to join him on a run to the Temple. Sawyer blows him off as Fake Locke appears, and there’s a good moment where they both blatantly lie — and let the other know it — about what they’ve been up to. They head off marching again, and Sawyer pulls a gun on the Enemy but is talked down by the Enemy’s personal story. He says he’s “trapped,” and that before he was trapped he was a normal man who knew love and betrayal and all that good stuff. Sawyer decides to trust him a bit longer, and they eventually make it to a cliff with a series of adjacent ladders, some wood and some rope, set into the cliff’s side going down. Fake Locke leads the way, and as Sawyer follows, one of the ladders snaps. Sawyer grabs a rope one that then breaks loose and swings him almost to the ocean below, but Fake Locke grabs him and they make it down to a cave set into the stone wall where apparently Jacob used to hang out. (I am here going to willfully ignore the whole Jacob’s Ladder thing, which I get but is too punny/on-the-nose to talk about for a while. I mean, come on.)

In the cave is a scale balanced by one white rock and one black, and Fake Locke chucks the white one into the water and calls it an “inside joke.” He leads Sawyer back into a cavernous room and says, “That is why you’re all here.” He hands Sawyer a torch, and Sawyer turns to see the names of everyone from Oceanic 815 written haphazardly in chalk along the cave walls and ceiling. Each name is paired with a number, and some of them are paired with one of the Numbers. Those with normal numbers are all crossed out, but the ones next to Numbers aren’t. They are:

4 — Locke
8 — Reyes
15 — Ford
16 — Jarrah
23 — Shephard
42 — Kwon

The Enemy explains that Jacob, who “had a thing for numbers,” wrote all these names and is the one responsible for bringing everyone to the island by intervening in their lives and directing their choices so they’d reach the island, thus robbing them of free will. This announcement is intercut with brief flashes of Jacob visiting the survivors pre-crash in last season’s finale. Fake Locke says that the names are people Jacob considered candidates to take over as “protector” of the island, a role the Enemy says is a joke because “it’s just a damn island” and doesn’t need protection. He lays out three options for Sawyer: (1) Do nothing and see how everything plays out, even if it means getting crossed out (and here he reaches up and draws a line through Locke’s name), (2) accept his role as protector, which is needless, or (3) get the hell out of there with the Enemy, since it apparently needs to be done “together.” When asked if he’s ready to go home, Sawyer thinks for a moment before responding, “Hell yes.”

And that’s that. A fun, interesting episode, and a great showcase for Locke/O’Quinn. We got to see, if not what the Numbers are and how they work, at least that they’re important and have been used by Jacob for a while. The Numbers assigned to the candidates aren’t their Oceanic seat assignments, either. Whether Kwon refers to Sun or Jin, though, is still uncertain, and it’s interesting to note that Kate isn’t on the list. Also, how much of the Enemy’s story is true and how much is just self-serving is up for debate, too, which is one of the great things about the show. The battle between good and evil gets blurry, because the best bad guys always believe they’re the good guy. Also, what’s up with that creepy blond kid and his rules for the Enemy? Do those rules have to do with why Ben couldn’t kill Widmore when he visited him? (And is the kid even the same one with bloody arms that Fake Locke saw but Richard couldn’t see? Sure, they look alike, but this is “Lost,” and I stopped taking things for granted when Walt IMd Michael.) And why is the Enemy stuck looking like Locke? Does it have to do with when/how Locke was buried, the fact that Locke was killed by Ben, or some other reason? Have at it.

Daniel Carlson is the managing editor of Pajiba and a TV blogger for the Houston Press. You can visit his blog, Slowly Going Bald.









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Comments

The choice thing is mine Kolby! Mine all mine!

Posted by: Cindy at February 17, 2010 11:33 AM

I wonder, could the numbers be chess positions?

Posted by: Cindy at February 17, 2010 11:38 AM

I think Ilana took Jacob's remnant ashes to trap MIB at some point (like he seems to have been previously trapped in the cabin).

I also don't think Jacob can be classified as the good one - in opposition to MIB. Perhaps his ends are as nefarious as we've assumed MIB's to be. But neither do I think MIB is good.

Posted by: Cindy at February 17, 2010 11:47 AM

oh oh oh I'm one of the first. Haven't read the review yet but wanted to throw this out there (apologies if this has been said before)

The Flashsidewayses (to use the technically correct term) are going in the same character order as the flashbacks first season. This probably isn't important, but I think it's really neat.

Posted by: buttercup at February 17, 2010 11:50 AM

I do not know how you manage to get these recaps written and on the screen so quickly, Carlson. What makes it even more amazing is their quality. It is appreciated.

Now to scroll back up and read the thing.

Posted by: Jerce at February 17, 2010 11:54 AM

I am loving this season and the "side by side" timeline. I know quite a few people hate it but alternate universes, different timelines, whatever you want to call it - I just eat that shit up. Plus, we got to see Helen again! Yay Helen!!

It was very interesting to note that Kate's name wasn't there and if I had to guess, I'd say Jacob meant for Sun to be the contender. Woman has guts and doesn't take shit from anyone.

Posted by: Kelly at February 17, 2010 11:56 AM

I'm pushing in all my chips on this bet: I think the blond kid is Aaron. I don't know how, but I have felt for seasons now that Jack's family line is relevant to this Island and it's history, and that line includes Aaron.

Dan, you crack me up by the way. And I feel ridiculous for not noticing the Jacob's Ladder ref, even after they put up that sculpture on campus.

I want to hope that Kate's lack-of-number means she is gonna bite it, but I can't muster up the vitriol yous guys have for her.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 17, 2010 11:56 AM

Oh my god @Patty, that is the best theory. That would be ridiculously cool.

Ok I have class in a half hour. Whoops wasted too much time reading Pajiba. Again.

Posted by: buttercup at February 17, 2010 12:02 PM

I was very puzzled by the reference(s) to Locke's father. However, the Big Nuke was detonated in 1977 (or thereabouts), before some of these characters were even born.

Remember in 6.1 when Hurley, on the plane, says, "Nothing bad ever happens to me." That's a huge contrast to Original Timeline Hurley, whose luck was so bad he decided he was "cursed." One can assume, then, that New Timeline Hurley never spent any time in a mental institution, thereby never hearing The Numbers, and must have won the lottery with another set of numbers...and so on.

There have been other little tweaks as well, most notably the appearance of Ethan Goodspeed as an (apparently) upstanding and caring obstetrician in Los Angeles.

What I'm getting at is: New Timeline Locke may have wound up in that wheelchair for entirely different reasons; his father may have had nothing to do with it.

I have to keep reminding myself that the big shift happened in 1977.

And I wonder what's happening to New Timeline Sayid...

Posted by: Jerce at February 17, 2010 12:04 PM

Nothing to add, but I just wanted to let you know I really enjoy reading your recaps. You always notice something I've missed, and have great insights into what things could mean.

Posted by: Christi at February 17, 2010 12:05 PM

better than kate-centric episode, by far.
terry o'quinn just rules as locke.
i really hope he gets an emmy.
same for sawyer-he's been doing some great actressin' too this year.
i was so happy to see helen back too.
part of me wanted locke to go see jack about his back tho.
along the same questions of why/how ben can be off the island as a teacher...i was wondering the same thing about ethan during the last episode.
i'm of the opinion that the little blonde boy was jacob regenerated & that bad locke' is good and jacob is evil.
the 'inside joke' might mean that he threw the white one despite the fact that it represented himself.

Posted by: gem at February 17, 2010 12:06 PM

Re Kate's missing number

Maybe Kate is not called as a candidate.

The Jacob-flashbacks for the other people all showed Jacob (sometimes subtly) “pushing” them towards a path that would lead to the Island. Example: he gave James the pen he needed to finish the letter; that letter fueled his hatred for years; that hatred took him to Australia, etc. But with Kate, he found her stealing, and tried to coerce her to be a better person, no more lies and crime. Which would have kept her from being on the run, therefore in Australia, therefore caught by Mars, etc.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 17, 2010 12:19 PM

I am also wondering - based on his clothing - if the little blond boy was Jacob. It would make some sense, and it would also give us a clue as to just how long Jacob and MIB have been on the island together.

As far as NewTimeline events being a bit different than OriginalFlavorTimeline events go, I did read somewhere that in the new timeline, what Kate did isn't the same as what she did in the orignal one.

Also, I totally didn't realize that Kate didn't have a number. I forgot all about my Sayid!

Posted by: Kolby at February 17, 2010 12:21 PM

Aside: A lot of people are using "Flocke" for Fake Locke.

Great recap, sir. A lot of people complain that each ep this season brings more stuff up than it answers. My thinking is that this show is like a thousand piece puzzle which doesn't come with a picture to tell you how it looks completed. Every episode in this season so far gives us several more pieces, which works towards completing the puzzle, yet won't make sense until we get more pieces. What look like new questions are really part of the answer.

Posted by: logar at February 17, 2010 12:22 PM

So we got final confirmation that the numbers represent 6 important LOSTies. Hopefully this is the earliest indication that the Hanso Foundation & Dharma, although not likely prominent in this final season, were in some way doing the work of Jacob &/or MIB. Black Rock (ship) => Alvar Hanso => Hanso Foundation => numbers => Jacob => MIB => black rock (actual rock). Word!

Posted by: the new transported man at February 17, 2010 12:22 PM

BTW- I thought the boy looked remarkably like a young Jacob.

Posted by: logar at February 17, 2010 12:24 PM

I'm not sure I understand your equation, newtranman. It looks like you are referring to a timetable, but Jacob and MIB were there long before the Black Rock landed/crashed. And when are we going to discover how/why that ship is in the middle of the Island?

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 17, 2010 12:32 PM

A few random thoughts:

-- The bloody kid is Jacob. He looks like Jacob (blond, inset eyes). I like the suggestion that blond kid is Aaron, but if that is true, I would go one step farther: Aaron = Jacob as a kid. Claire has died and been claimed (presumably by the Enemy) and is now part of the Island. So it makes sense that her kid should have some fundamental connection to the Island -- fundamental enough to be Jacob himself. And given the time travel issues, we can probably ignore the time sequence problem with this concept.

-- Enemy is trapped on the Island and, just like he has to use dead people to manifest himself as a person on the Island, he can only use dead people to get off the island. But with a twist. He can use dead people to manifest himself but not having obtained their consent can't use them to "go home". Note Richard tells Sawyer that Not Locke is going to kill him. And Not Locke says that he and sawyer have to decide to go home "together". Which means Not Locke takes over/claims Sawyer, but with Sawyer's consent. Meaning we'll have an evil Not Sawyer escaping (or trying to escape) the island to work his evil deeds in the real world. Real Sawyer will die, just like Richard said. Makes the Enemy something very much like Satan being exiled. Which would be a little disappointingly obvious a theme, given the inherent good vs evil, God vs Satan, struggle on the island.

Posted by: eddie walker at February 17, 2010 12:38 PM

But with Kate, he found her stealing, and tried to coerce her to be a better person, no more lies and crime.

I agree Patty. I don't necessarily think that it means that she will die (since I never get what I want) but that she might have failed him at some point, maybe with all her criminal hijinks or maybe even for taking Aaron who wasn't supposed to be raised by another.

However, she was still on the list in the ankh that Jacob gave Hurley that got them into the temple. Which makes me think that if she isn't a candidate anymore, then maybe she's around because she's important to Jack and Sawyer, two candidates with the lowest numbers, which might mean they're ranked higher.

Posted by: jM at February 17, 2010 12:42 PM

Thanks again for the great recap, and doing it so quickly.

This was such a good episode. I love Locke centered episodes.

I too have a feeling that the young boy was Jacob, and that he was telling Fake Locke that he couldn't kill Sawyer.

Posted by: Zach at February 17, 2010 12:42 PM

eddie, expanding on your theory, what if Kate consents to be the vessel? She would be sacrificing herself "to save Sawyer", and that might go to explain why Sawyer had a number, and she didn't.

And I'm completely open to the Aaron = Jacob theory. I just know that kid has to come around in relevance.

Speaking of which, Ji Yeon, anyone? I had a gut feeling that "LA X" was going to center around the Next Generation kids, but no such luck. They have to be relevant, though, right?

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 17, 2010 12:45 PM

Patty, I disagree with your theory that Jacob was trying to dissuade Kate from a life of crime. He probably just knew that Kate always does the opposite of whatever the fuck she's told. Manipulating Kate = mastering reverse psychology.

Re: the numbers, Dan, I'm wondering how you know that all of the crossed-out names are those of other Oceanic 815 passengers. Did you zoom in and read them all? I don't think Locke said anything like that. My own theory is that Jacob has been choosing candidates for a long time. Remember his conversation with anti-Jacob at the end of last season? Anti-Jacob said "it always ends the same", as a ship was approaching the island. I'm sure some of those crossed-out names were of people long dead. It would help to explain how the Numbers have been around since before the Losties crashed on the Island. If all of the passengers were candidates when they washes ashore, then 4 8 15 16 23 42 wouldn't have been written all over the Island.

Last thing on the candidates: Kwon has to be Jin. Everyone else on that list has travelled through time at some point, and Sun didn't. I just think that's significant somehow.

And how great was it to see Hurley so cool and confident? We've never seen him like that before.

I don't think the kid is Aaron. I just don't.

Posted by: J. K. Barlow at February 17, 2010 12:45 PM

Oh, jM, I had forgotten about the ankh list. Good point. But her name has to be on the cave list regardless, right? So has it been scratched out already? Which would mean what exactly?

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 17, 2010 12:47 PM

I seriously clapped and cracked up when Ben The School Teacher showed up. I could hear his voice and then the reveal...it was just fantastic. And I imagine he'd be the creepiest motherfucking teacher in all history. You don't dare cross him!

I can't remember who said it last night, but seeing Locke gain some happiness (and Hurley, too) was the first time I wanted the separate timeline to be real. I'm sure it won't last long, though.

I think Kate wasn't on the list of candidates because she is, in essence, a very weak person. Indecisive and impulsive, she makes terrible decisions, can't lead OR follow and would generally make a terrible protector. she hasn't been crossed out, but she doesn't have one of THE numbers. Maybe? I don't know. I think I just hate Kate. And I'm sure Sun was the chosen Kwon. Lady kicks ass.

Posted by: figgy at February 17, 2010 12:48 PM

I decided that Kwon referred to both Sun AND Jin, since he touched them both, and they are so determined to find each other, it's like they are one. AND THEN, it occurred tome that Kwon refers to Baby Kwon (whose name I forget since she's back home in Korea. AND AND AND OMG I JUST DECIDED that Jin and Sun are the Adam and Eve, and that their baby is going to be the protector of the island.

I really liked this episode. I thought it was well done, if not overly revelatory, and I LOVED Ben Linus as European History teacher and Locke as substitute science teacher (on human reproduction, no less), and Lucky Hurley sending Locke to the temp agency he also owns. And HELEN! Squee! I was happy about that.

Patty, I enjoy this Bloody Blonde Kid = Aaron hypothesis.

Oh, and by the way, I didn't really see: was the kid who dropped off Locke's luggage from the airline Walt?

Posted by: Anna von Murderpuppet at February 17, 2010 12:50 PM

And I think everyone else on the list (on the flight) was chosen to test the main candidates. It was all one big, messed up test. And the Island totally needs protection, the Enemy is lying out of his ass.

Posted by: figgy at February 17, 2010 12:50 PM

But with Kate, he found her stealing, and tried to coerce her to be a better person, no more lies and crime.

I never read it like that...What Jacob basically did was let young Kate get away with her thieving without getting punished...If the store manager had called her mom and Kate had been punished, that might have set her on the straight and narrow.

I'm not at all persuaded at this point that Jacob is the good guy. This is LOST we're talking about. Maybe Jacob and "Esau" are both assholes.

Posted by: Jerce at February 17, 2010 12:51 PM

JK, I get that Kate does the opposite of what she is told, which is how I explained that scene when I saw it last season. I was just trying on a new theory to figure out why she wasn't on the cave list.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 17, 2010 12:56 PM

Now, see, this episode felt like filler to me. I love O'Quinn and his character, but it seemed like the bulk of the episode was a couple of dudes walking through the jungle promising answers and truth, very little of which was actually provided. So their names are scrawled on a cave wall with a corresponding number? It's pretty much taken for granted that everyone who wound up on the island was directed there somehow, and they don't even give a reason for the numbers. So none of that struck me as anything new.

The alternate timeline stuff is interesting, but I'm starting to wonder if there's a point. There was enough happening in the one timeline to hold my interest. Alternate-Locke seems to have no faith but a much happier life; Hurley seems to be much more confident and suave, but damnit--where is this going? This is the last season, and I felt like we were marching in place when we should be moving forward. The "reveal" on alternate Ben was also kinda silly; it was painfully obvious from his voice and stature who he was, they didn't need to hide his face as though that might give it away.

I'm feeling impatient for answers and was disappointed by this episode. But at least it didn't have Kate in it. And I liked Lapidus' comment about how Locke's funeral was the weirdest one he'd ever seen.

Posted by: DeadBessie at February 17, 2010 12:56 PM

I recall some people in last week's thread weren't sold on the idea that Smokey = MIB = Enemy. Fairly certain that's established fact now, based on this week's episode.

Posted by: Coltrane at February 17, 2010 12:59 PM

Also, does the whole spooky blonde kid thing change the theory that all of the dead people that have come back for chats were manifestations of the MIB/ Or, does it just mean that now Jacob is now in the position that MIB was in and has to operate in the forms of other people that have died?

Posted by: jM at February 17, 2010 1:01 PM

Patty - The connections I noted are as such. Jacob & Enemy were on the island before the Black Rock crashed. Alvar Hanso captained the Black Rock. The Hanso Foundation & Dharma employed this Valenzetti guy, who discovered the Valenzetti equation, of which the Numbers represent variables that can be changed in order to prevent the demise of mankind. The Numbers correspond to the LOSTies, & were created, manipulated, or simply known by Jacob &/or Enemy. Enemy was represented, in a single scene from last night, by an actual black rock. BOOM roasted.

Posted by: the new transported man at February 17, 2010 1:03 PM

Correction: Magnus Hanso captained the Black Rock. Alvar Hanso ran the Hanso Foundation.

Posted by: the new transported man at February 17, 2010 1:05 PM

Jerce, I'm hoping against hope that the Jacob vs Enemy/Esau thing doesn't amount to a more religious, higher-stakes version of the Randolph and Mortimer Duke bet from Trading Places. Because I have seen nothing yet to dispel my fears in this regard.

Posted by: eddie walker at February 17, 2010 1:07 PM

I also think that Kwon refers to Ji Yong. I predict that Ji Yong and Aaron will take the places of Jacob and MiB, respectively. However where Jacob and MiB have been enemies, Ji Yong and Aaron will be friends and harmony, which is Jacob's endgame, will be achieved.

Posted by: Scully at February 17, 2010 1:07 PM

Patty, I think Aaron grows up to be someone important, and have speculated Jacob. But I think the boy last night was for sure Jacob. Now how he came to be reincarnated or resurrected so quickly (at first that's what I thought Ilana would do with the ashes - resurrect him). And why as a child?

Posted by: Cindy at February 17, 2010 1:12 PM

But her name has to be on the cave list regardless, right? So has it been scratched out already? Which would mean what exactly?

I was saying that maybe she was once a candidate (she's been on the lists and was visited by Jacob), but has since done something (perhaps taking Aaron, or just being annoying) that has led to her being crossed off. If she not a candidate then the reason for keeping her around may be because of her importance to Jack and Sawyer. Maybe not Sawyer as of late, but Jack copped to wanting to set off the bomb because of her. That makes her a big card to play at some point.

Posted by: jM at February 17, 2010 1:13 PM

eddie, I was just bemusing this point the other day, saying, "This better not all be over a dollar..."

Scully, that is a pretty fascinating theory. I like the idea that "Kwon" referred to Yi Jeon.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 17, 2010 1:17 PM

What I'm getting at is: New Timeline Locke may have wound up in that wheelchair for entirely different reasons; his father may have had nothing to do with it.

Absolutely - especially since Dad is coming to the wedding and Locke has that picture up.

Coltrane, that was me, and I agree - it's definitely been established they are one now.

Posted by: Cindy at February 17, 2010 1:19 PM

And I think everyone else on the list (on the flight) was chosen to test the main candidates.

Figs - I don't think the other people on the flight have been assigned numbers. I think they were just innocent bystanders who unfortunately bought tickets to the flight that was taking the candidates to the island. I think the other people who were assigned numbers - the ones who'd been crossed out - had come to the island long before and had died/otherwise failed in Jacob's game.

And I am dying to know Richard's story. Was he a candidate? Was he chosen for another task? I can't wait for Episode Six.

Posted by: Kolby at February 17, 2010 1:21 PM

When Lapidus made the comment about how Locke's funeral was the weirdest one he'd ever seen, I heard it as "This is the weirdest show I've ever seen " and it cracked me up. Of course I had to rewind to make sure what was really said, but I kind of like my version better.

Posted by: ashes at February 17, 2010 1:22 PM

I guess I see your point, jM, but it raises a point you and I seem to disagree on:
Names that have been scratched out - does it simply mean they are no candidates, which would suggest all of those people were potential candidates? Or does it signify that someone has been killed? My first instinct was that scratched names were people who died, but I could be convinced otherwise. THAT is why I wondered if Kate's name had EVER been up there, because as she is alive, it shouldn't be scratched out. But like I said, these are just theories/educated guesses, so they aren't set in stone.

Oops, pun. /lame

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 17, 2010 1:22 PM

I think Richard was a slave on the Black Rock, and that Jacob essentially treated him as such.

Posted by: Cindy at February 17, 2010 1:25 PM

I'm not on the Ji Yeon bandwagon. The kid's just barely been featured in the show, & we've got like 15 episodes left to get to the point. Aaron, on the other hand, has had some degree of mystery central to the mytharc since day one, & has been factored fairly heavily into the last 2 seasons. Ji Yeon just a regular baby, yo!

Posted by: the new transported man at February 17, 2010 1:25 PM

So Jacob brought the LOSTies to the island. Enemy indicated, in last season's finale, that Jacob repeatedly brings people to the island, much to Enemy's chagrin; this occurred during the scene with the Black Rock (presumably) on the horizon. So, I suspect that lots of folks that we've seen or heard about, like Richard, Magnus Hanso, Widmore, etc., were likewise summoned to the island, & should have a number on that damn cave wall.

Posted by: the new transported man at February 17, 2010 1:35 PM

Wouldn't Aaron only be like 4 years old at this point? Also, isn't he with Grandma?


Also, Sawyer made my life once again with his, "I guess I better put some pants on" line. There's our James!

Posted by: kelsy at February 17, 2010 1:37 PM

If the blond kid is Aaron, hopefully they explain his magical appearances as they do Walt's. Astral projection, time travel, whatever. Sheeeit, for all I know, it was supposed to be Walt & Aaron taking over for Jacob & Enemy, before they (apparently) wrote Walt out of the mytharc.

Posted by: the new transported man at February 17, 2010 1:40 PM

Something I'm curious about - Ilana said MIB is stuck in Locke's form, but does she know about Smokey? And if MIB can be Smokey, why does he need or want a human body - can he only leave in human form? And will burying the real Locke's body affect MIB in any way?

Posted by: Cindy at February 17, 2010 1:40 PM

Wouldn't Aaron only be like 4 years old at this point? Also, isn't he with Grandma?

I'm sorry, was that logic? My dear, dear kelsy, this is LOST we're talking about. Time, location, age - none of these things count.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 17, 2010 1:44 PM

Hoping the last scene is Aaron, on the island & roasting a boar, with Walt, having inherited the roles:

"You hungry?"
"No man, I don't eat pork."
"Are you Jewish?"
"Nah, I ain't Jewish, I just don't dig on swine, that's all."
LOST

Posted by: the new transported man at February 17, 2010 1:50 PM

Fascinating bit found on Lostpedia:
Sawyer noticed that many candidate names were crossed out. The Man in Black proceeded to cross out Locke's name and implied that if Sawyer did not join him, his name might be crossed out too. This indicates that when candidates die, their names are crossed out. However, it is unclear what other reasons for being "crossed out" can be (for instance, Straume is crossed out but Miles is alive).

I need serious screencaps of every inch of that cave... ugh, I just realized how much the Warming Glow letter refers to me...

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 17, 2010 1:51 PM

AND I forgot that Illana referred to Frank as "a possible candidate" to Bram last season!

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 17, 2010 1:52 PM

I need serious screencaps of every inch of that cave...

FYI - there is also a Goodspeed on the wall, along with the names of some other Others we've met. All crossed out. I think that a candidate doesn't necessarily have to die to be crossed out, but just make a choice that would take them out of the running for Jacob's replacement.

Also, I've done some thinking. If the candidates have to be brought to the island, how could Ji Yeon be the Kwon on the cave ceiling? She was concieved on-island. She wasn't brought there.

Posted by: Kolby at February 17, 2010 1:57 PM

Oh man, this rabbit hole keeps going. Check out this (WIP) list of the names/numbers:
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Cliffside_cave

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 17, 2010 2:02 PM

I like that in the alternate time line, we know the things that could not be changed, even though peoples' lives have clearly gone in different directions. Like Locke is always meant to be paralyzed, Kate is always meant to be connected to Aaron, Rose gets cancer...those things could not be altered (as per Eloise Hawking's time rules).

Posted by: Cindy at February 17, 2010 2:03 PM

Two things Dan didn't bring up

Sawyer says "I thought you were dead"

Nemesis says "I am"

Now, at first I thought Nemesis meant Locke's dead, but that would be "he's dead."

Upon second review I wonder if he means that "I," Nemesis am dead. This would help to explain a lot of things.


Second,

about who is good and who is bad, when Sawyer and Nemesis get to the cave, it looks like the black rock (pun?) is weighing the balance in its favor, not enough to pull all the way over, but just an inch or so lower than the white rock -- thus establishing a dominant position.

Nemesis throws the white rock out into the water and says its a "private joke."

The first possibility is that the the white rock represents Jacob, and Nemesis is "throwing it away" because Jacob is "gone."

The second possibility is that the white rock is Nemesis (the split frame), and Nemesis is throwing it "off the island" and setting it free.

and finally, (unrelated to the above) I had never read the whisper transcripts before, but after doing so, I suspect that if the writers resolve what's said by the whispers, it will radically change everything else on the show.

Posted by: Kosmic Koyote at February 17, 2010 2:05 PM

I don't think Aaron is that important. I just don't feel it. Could be wrong of course, but I wouldn't like it.

Posted by: figgy at February 17, 2010 2:05 PM

She was concieved on-island. She wasn't brought there.

Maybe she didn't have to come, but Jin sure did - BAZINGA!

Posted by: shamed in the shadows at February 17, 2010 2:06 PM

I think MIB could have meant the I'm dead both ways - referring to Locke and himself. He did say he used to be a regular person. He clearly has evolved/changed into something more/other than human.

I definitely felt that was Jacob's rock being tossed out. Power struggle.

Posted by: Cindy at February 17, 2010 2:08 PM

*cracks up like a fool*

Posted by: figgy at February 17, 2010 2:08 PM

Two things:

1) Lest we forget guys that Jacob totally touched Kate, which is his big "I have selected you" thing. He wore gloves when he talked to Illana specifically so he wouldn't touch her, so touching the people is very important.

2) I'm getting sort of pissed at Sun for just leaving her baby behind. That's sort of shitty.

I also think the whole Aaron IS Jacob thing is taking it a little too far, but I'm so into the idea of the Lost babies being the really important people.

Also the "it's an inside joke" thing was maybe the greatest thing ever.

Posted by: buttercup at February 17, 2010 2:10 PM

I have nothing substantive to add to the conversation, but I'm just going to use the forum to bang my gong at my Lost Pet Peeves:

1) Why the hell is Walt not back? Seriously. They all had to come back to the island, but not Walt? Fugoff!
2) I know some of you hate them irrationally, but where the hell are Rose and Bernard? Did they time jump back to 2007 with the rest of the Dharma kids? Or did they already die in the seventies and become Adam and Eve (black rock and white rock indeed)?
3) Is this show allergic to women? They're all dead except for Kate who is universally loathed, Sun who is all but written out and Ilana who has had eleven lines in the whole series. Don't get me started on Claire.
4) I've stopped wondering "what's happening/what's gonna happen" this season because Lost is like a higher power you can never understand, but just give yourself over to. I'm letting its increasingly convoluted stories wash over me like the tides.
5) I really do love this show, but this episode felt a little filler-y to me.
6) No seriously, motherfuckers. Where the hell is Walt?!!?

Posted by: welldressed at February 17, 2010 2:13 PM

Here's what happened to Walt:

http://imgur.com/bwzzZ.jpg

Posted by: the new transported man at February 17, 2010 2:19 PM

Cindy
I brought it up not as an "I told you so"; I'm just tickled to know we're able to piece together parts this puzzle with some confidence!

Posted by: Coltrane at February 17, 2010 2:21 PM

Lest we forget guys that Jacob totally touched Kate, which is his big "I have selected you" thing. He wore gloves when he talked to Illana specifically so he wouldn't touch her, so touching the people is very important. buttercup

nope

I thought that too, but Jacob touches nearly everyone (everyone but Sawyer and Jack in last night's flashbacks) through their clothes, so skin to skin is unnecessary.

Posted by: Kosmic Koyote at February 17, 2010 2:22 PM

Walt has been LOST IN TIME AND SPACE....a clue appears at the unnameable.

Posted by: Pandemic at February 17, 2010 2:23 PM

Ji Yeon just a regular baby, yo!

I only thought it because this isn't quite true- Jin and Sun were unable to conceive before they came to the island.

Ilana said MIB is stuck in Locke's form, but does she know about Smokey? And if MIB can be Smokey, why does he need or want a human body - can he only leave in human form? And will burying the real Locke's body affect MIB in any way?

Ilana did see Smokey kill all the other guys she was with, and I am assuming more than remembering that she saw UnLocke as well. And I wondered the same thing about burying Locke's body.

Posted by: Anna von Murderpuppet at February 17, 2010 2:26 PM

I'm sure there's something to suggest otherwise, but what if the Enemy can take over the dead on the island and Jacob takes over those born there? It would add a little context to all the birth problems on the island if the Enemy was purposely trying to prevent Jacob from building up a stock of potential vessels...

Posted by: elizabeth at February 17, 2010 2:29 PM

Sorry, I meant to tie that to the idea that the blonde kid could be both Aaron and Jacob.

Posted by: elizabeth at February 17, 2010 2:29 PM

elizabeth, that is a really neat idea. However, a) why did Smokey "let" Sun get pregnant, and b) Aaron was not conceived on the Island.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 17, 2010 2:35 PM

Oooh, I like that, Elizabeth, and hadn't really thought of it.

This is why I love these threads!! All these ideas, coming together...

Posted by: Anna von Murderpuppet at February 17, 2010 2:35 PM

Actually, the more I think about it...

If the Enemy is now "stuck" as Locke, maybe it's because Locke died off-island and came there as a corpse. He was also appearing as Christian for a long time and to people who didn't personally know Christian.

By the same token, maybe the baby has to be conceived off-island for Jacob to use it. I don't know; this is clearly all guess-work and it falls apart when Alex is brought into it, unless there's a whole lot more we don't know (which, duh).

Posted by: elizabeth at February 17, 2010 2:45 PM


Well,

that was me suggesting that MiB is not Smokey, I'll admit it.

And furthermore, I shall now proceed to flog the deceased equine.

I think it's obvious that the producers want us to think that Nemesis is smokey. This is the reason I'm still holding on to the possibility that they are not the same entity: precisely because it is the simplest explanation, and I don't trust these guys.


The only thing that leaves it ambiguous, is that we still haven't seen Nemesis transform.

We did see smokey look in on Sawyer, and then traipse through the jungle, and then a sudden flash cut to Nemesis picking up a machete. So we should make the obvious assumption, yes? but it's still an assumption.

The case against:

1. Illiana says Nemesis is "trapped like that"
2. didn't transform to chase boy
3. didn't transform to save Sawyer


Outside bet is that the boy is Cerebus

possibly, we saw Smokey look in on Swayer, then Nemesis saunter into Sawyer's house, then Cerebus/Smokey warn Nemesis "You can't kill him." (although personally, I think the kid was saying "Silly Rabbit, he's not dead -- you can't kill Jacob)


I don't think it will play out this way, but if I was writing the show, this is what I would do. Locke is trapped in human form, note his distress upon tripping -- coming face to face with his new found human frailty. Jacob let him do it so that Nemesis would be hoisted on his own petard.

If they do go this way, we should call shenanigans, because they are clearly pushing us to accept that Nemesis and Smokey are one entity, but they have done things like this before, assumed identity is a central theme of the series. Sawyer, Kate, Ben, Ethan, Juliet, and many others have originally made false claims about who or what they are.

Posted by: Kosmic Koyote at February 17, 2010 2:46 PM

No worries, Coltrane - I didn't take it that way at all. And I have no problem admitting to the failure of my loony ideas! I will say that I'm confused by how all the Smokey events we've seen tie to the MIB character. Island security system, judge and executioner - why did he kill the pilot, for instance?

I like that, Elizabeth.

Posted by: Cindy at February 17, 2010 2:49 PM

I really think the kid in the rags is Jacob, not Aaron. Aaron wouldn't know Jack (hee!) about the rules of the game. He was raised off-island and continues to be blissfully ignorant of the goings on there. At least that's what I think.

MIB thinks the island doesn't need to be protected, isn't special. It's not just an island he and knows it. If it were just an island, he would have been able to leave centuries ago, and he wouldn't be able to take the form of the smoke monster. Geez, the dude's an idiot. No wonder it took him thousands of years to find the loophole.

Posted by: Kolby at February 17, 2010 2:49 PM

Just started reading the comments, but before I forget - How much
fun was it to see Richard panicking and trying to talk to Sawyer before
he ran back into the forest? Television gold!

Posted by: Mrs. Julian at February 17, 2010 2:50 PM

Come to think of it, why has Smokey killed so many people? Did he want to have a variety of disguises?

And I need to research whether or not Smokey made appearances during the time we believe MIB to have been trapped in the cabin.

Posted by: Cindy at February 17, 2010 2:51 PM

OW my brain.

Posted by: Anna von Murderpuppet at February 17, 2010 2:52 PM

Well here is a crazy thought: When "Christian" shows Locke to the frozen wheel, he says, "Say hello to my son." And Locke asks, "Who's your son?"

Because it looked like Christian, we all assumed he meant Jack. Well, as with the debate over the meaning of "I am (dead)", what if it meant Smokey's son? He was once human, after all, and he knows loss.

I desperately want that to mean he was talking about Ray (Jack's grandfather). I want Ray to be relevant, because of my Shephard family theory, but even if I get my wish, Ray isn't old enough for that to work.

Hhm, maybe the blond kid with bloody arms was Smokey's son...

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 17, 2010 2:55 PM

I liked this one a little more than last time (despite its nearly Jack-less state), and there were some new clues, but honestly, I think the whole thing about Jacob as protector, well, maybe Jacob was protecting the world from Nemesis, not protecting the island, per se. It kind of irks me that we're given this alternate timeline with obvious things being different (another reason for Locke to be in the wheelchair, for example), but nothing to explain how he ended up in the wheelchair - being shoved out the window by his horrible con man father was so surprising and striking, can't just forget it, so then why not give one line of dialogue to illuminate - "Guess I shouldn't have tried skiing/surfing/hang gliding", something like that. I'll buy that things are different, but it takes one second to make that kind of thing clear. In the end, I know it doesn't matter. But every single new "wait, what?" moment takes away from the momentum of finally getting the answers we've been waiting since the first season to learn. I know. Who cares? Sorry.

Hey, was that kid who Locke stopped to ask directions to the Teachers' Lounge, was that Walt?

And dammit, if it all comes down to a $1 bet, I'm gonna cut a bitch.

Loved Sawyer in this ep, tho!

Posted by: Chickaboom at February 17, 2010 3:00 PM

You've completely lost me Patty. You think MIB/Smokey is Christian's father?

Posted by: Cindy at February 17, 2010 3:01 PM

Holding that Smokey is Flocke is Nemesis, Smokey likely killed when it suited his interests. He needed Ben, so he responded to him when the commandos were lighting up the barracks. One of those Whispers transcripts says something like "Kill the pilot, make them run." Generally, it seems that Nemesis is prone to anger & violence, so he kills at will.

Posted by: the new transported man at February 17, 2010 3:03 PM

But why? I don't think MIB/Smokey just runs around killing people willy nilly with no reasoning - otherwise he wouldn't have judged some, let some live, etc. There is clearly a method to his particular madness. He could also be summoned at times - by Ben, no less - and Ben was theoretically on Jacob's side (until recently).

Posted by: Cindy at February 17, 2010 3:08 PM

Man alive! People run rampant with some theories. Christian was referring to Jack, & they confirmed as much when Locke, as Jeremy Bentham, talked to Jack off-island. Sure, you can say that it was misdirection, but seriously, some of this stuff is pretty cut & dry. Like people on this other board think that Hurley's imaginary friend Dave is some crucial element. That was one throwaway plot device, man! What's next, Bai Ling was an ancient goddess?

Posted by: the new transported man at February 17, 2010 3:08 PM

Bai Ling is an ancient goddess, newtransman! Also, touche on my Walt query.

Posted by: welldressed at February 17, 2010 3:16 PM

Cindy - The "why" is still a mystery, but thus far we know that Nemesis wants to go "home." What I suggested above is that Smokey's kills serve his purpose, perhaps that purpose, & are not random acts of violence.

I want to know what was supposed to happen when Ben yelled into an ancient toilet bowl to summon Smokey. How does that work? And why does Smokey have a home base under the Temple, where Ben went to be "judged"? And when that happened, why didn't the Temple Others get wise to it?

Posted by: the new transported man at February 17, 2010 3:17 PM

Whoops, I meant Patty. I think I need a breather.

Posted by: the new transported man at February 17, 2010 3:20 PM

No Cindy, that isn't what I mean at all. I was merely saying that I think the Shephard line has a history with the Island, and in my rambling explanation, I may have suggested that the Nemesis, in human form, might be part of it.

newtranman, all we "know" is that Locke interpreted it that way. True, Smokey might have been alluding to Jack, as Christian's son, but still.

And hey, take a deep breath and save your angst for your Edward Cullen pillow. "Running rampant" with the theories is what makes these threads fun. I figure half of the craziness we come up with is pointless brain farting, but it is still fun. As for Dave/Bai Ling, by now I have accepted that anyone/everyone is relevant somehow. Heck, the crazy faux-psychic from Hurley's past turned up as the temp worker.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 17, 2010 3:22 PM

...and Ben was theoretically on Jacob's side (until recently).

Ben has always been on Ben's side.

And all the little differences in the NewTimeline may not mean as much as the similarities. Whatever their backgrounds, they are all still the people they were always meant to be. Or whatever.

Posted by: Kolby at February 17, 2010 3:26 PM

Of course Ben would be the asshole bitching about the coffee maker "rules".

Posted by: Jules at February 17, 2010 3:39 PM

Just wanted to say a huge thank you to Daniel for these fantastic reviews. Even though I try and pay ridiculously close attention to the episodes while watching I find there are always little things that I missed. I didn't even catch the "Jacob's Ladder" bit and now feel like an idiot.

"Maybe she didn't have to come, but Jin sure did - BAZINGA!"

This made me snort coffee up my nose. Not a pleasant feeling at all.

Posted by: penelope at February 17, 2010 3:50 PM

Sorry penelope - couldn't help myself.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 17, 2010 4:01 PM

I assumed that MIB was trapped in Locke's body because they had
possession of the corpse and therefore could bury it. That would fit
in the whole issue of claiming bodies.

Kolby - I want you to know that when Illana said MIB was trapped
in the body, I said outloud, "Kolby was right!" I think you were dead
on (excuse the pun) about the issue of bodies.

I had thought that the whisper conversations were actually voices
bleeding through between timelines when people were jumping
around in time, e.g when they came upon Kate delivering
Claire's baby.

Posted by: Mrs. Julian at February 17, 2010 4:22 PM

Thoughts on the body: Ilana said that they carried the body across the island to show everyone the appearance of The Enemy. She didn't mention anything about keeping possession of the body or burying it as a means of "trapping" him. In fact - if anything - burial seemed like a hindrance to her and their need to reach the Temple. (Granted, she could be omitting information.)

My initial thought was that perhaps the death of Jacob is what froze Smokey in his current appearance. Also - let's be honest - this arbitrary rule is extremely convenient for keeping Terry O'Quinn active in the show. (Not that I have a problem with that...I'm just saying.) Additionally, the logistics of a shape-shifter that is still able to rampantly impersonate anyone places unnecessary confusion and uncertainty on every scene we see going forward.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at February 17, 2010 4:33 PM

By the way, I think Sawyer is attempting the Long Con on Smokey. Or he at least wants more information before he commits.

Someone pointed out to me that in the rebroadcast of last week's episode, the pop-up notes confirmed that being "claimed" is directly tied to the Black Smoke. (There are apparently lots of canonical answers being dropped in those pop-ups, and I rarely watch the recaps. Perhaps I should try to read them all?) Anyway, questions that raises for me: if you're claimed, are you just batshit crazy and not really controllable but sometimes given to rational, even "good" actions? (Perhaps Rousseau - hence the reason she said the numbers over the radio broadcast? Claire saving Jin? Or maybe they're just generally aligned against The Others, and that's why it's prescription in the Temple is poison?) I.e., it's a way for Smokey to just take you out of play and generally array you against Jacob's ends. And then I wonder: how exactly do you become infected? Proximity? If so, is Sawyer in danger? Does Smokey need to keep Sawyer sane to execute his escape plan?

Posted by: DarthCorleone at February 17, 2010 4:55 PM

Sawyer = Han Solo; the rogue/outcast who turns into a stable, loving hero. Always an audience favorite.

Jack = Luke Skywalker; he has a destiny and serious daddy issues. His heritage is tied to the mysticism of this particular universe. He can be boring and whiny. But in the end there's a good chance he's the one who ultimately defeats evil.

I bring this up because the creators of LOST are huge Star Wars fans. We have to consider who Jacob will name as a successor - the next caretaker of the island. It could very well be Jack.

Posted by: Coltrane at February 17, 2010 5:54 PM

By the way, I think Sawyer is attempting the Long Con on Smokey. Or he at least wants more information before he commits. DarthCorleon

Sawyer = Han Solo; the rogue/outcast who turns into a stable, loving hero. Always an audience favorite. Coltrane

I like your idea Darth,

it would be stoopid to have Sawyer go from selfish bad guy to enlightened good guy and then fall back to the darkside. I just don't buy that arc at all. Which leaves me with Sawyer is a victim or Sawyer is playing Nemesis.

I also don't buy Sawyer as a victim -- in this series of subterfuge, misdirection, and "ain't what it seems," Sawyer has proven himself to be a jedi-ninja of bullshit and perception of same. He seems to be the only person (besides Richard) to recognize that Nemesis was not Locke. He also seemed to possess an insight about Locke that no one (possibly Nemesis) else was aware of.

There was definitely a bit of gamesmanship between Locke and Sawyer over Richard and Little Bleeding Christ Child, and who said what or to whom. I think Sawyer knows he's facing off against a supernaturally formidable adversary, dancing with the devil (if you will), and he's totally into it.

I always found Sawyer and Sayid to be very interesting characters with a lot of karmic baggage and I hope they both get interesting resolutions worthy of the investment we all seem to be making into this narrative.

I still worry that they are going to let me down at the finalé.
I can imagine several ridiculously frustrating conclusions, but I can't really see how they can explain it all satisfactorily at this point. Especially not if they keep insisting on playing the WTF game over and over -- they seem addicted to the bizarre twist and incapable of


Posted by: Kosmic Koyote at February 17, 2010 6:15 PM

Kosmic Koyote
I don't think Sawyer will go back to the darkside, and we don't know yet whether he will be Smokey's victim. Agreed, his resolution will need to be satisfying considering the character's growth and the emotional investment many fans have in him.

Posted by: Coltrane at February 17, 2010 6:28 PM

YOU GUYS!!!! What if #42 Kwon = Ji Yeon????????

Posted by: SolitaryAngel at February 17, 2010 6:29 PM

Kosmic Koyote >> If I had to guess, I'd say Sawyer is playing Smokey and he'll be the victim. Sawyer's arc has screamed "redeemed martyr" to me ever since the end of season one. He's already shown the tendency for self-sacrifice when he jumped out of the chopper. I predict he pulls Spock's "Kobayashi Maru" for the needs of the many, and we'll have the saddest death yet on the show. Regarding the Han Solo comparison, I think it was Harrison Ford who said that Han Solo really had no business surviving Return Of The Jedi as far as the narrative went.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at February 17, 2010 6:30 PM

O NOEZ if Sawyer dies I will WEEP INCONSOLABLY.

I do love this notion of his pulling a "long con" on Smokey, though. I hope that turns out to be correct.

Posted by: Jerce at February 17, 2010 6:48 PM

I've obviously come super late to the party this week, but I LOVE Wednesday mornings/afternoons on Pajiba! THANK YOU to whomever it was that linked to that Lostpedia article on Jacob's Wall. Super interested (especially the Nikki and possible Paolo reference, I like me some Nikki and Paolo humor!)

You guys are, as usual, so intelligent with your idears and I had one I wanted to chew over with you. A lot of information was given to us tonight about "big picture" questions, but most of it came out of Ol Smokey's mouth. And, as someone said above, he is lying out of his Smokey ass. I'm sure some of it is true, or true-ish, but I think it's important to question EVERYTHING he says.

So when he bitches that Jacob, in encountering the six lucky lotto Losties, removed their choices and "forced/manipulated" them to come to the island, I call shenanigans. That sounds like petulant sour grapes to me Also shenanigans that the island doesn't need protecting. But who IS Jacob casting for, really? His replacement? What about Smokey's replacement. We all know Smokey wants to leave, so it makes no sense that he would thwart Jacob in choosing a replacement, but hasn't Smokey been seemingly the "protector" role? Eliminating threats (if violently).

Bear with me, por favor. I think the line mentioned above that Smokey said on the beach "it all ends the same," or something like that, speaks to his frustration and impatience with Jacob's process. Jacob will NEVER choose a replacement, because no one ever meets his (impossibly?) high standards. I think that replacement selection has something to do with Smokey's release, and Smokey has grown tired of waiting for Jacob to decide, so has taken matters into his own hands.

Whatever, that's half-baked, attack or support if you will.

P.S. I completely agree and celebrate that Smokey is stuck that way because the writers want Terry O'Quinn in as many scenes as possible. (I saw Terry O'Quinn at the Foodland the other night and all I could do was grin maniacally at him until he grudgingly smiled back and gave me a little "hello there psycho" wave. Ahhhhhhhh OAHU I LOVE YOU!!)

Posted by: coveredinbees at February 17, 2010 6:56 PM

welldressed
Walt isn't featured because the child actor has grown up and his voice probably cracks. Puberty.

Posted by: Coltrane at February 17, 2010 9:08 PM

jM raises a good point re: apparitions. Have MIB and Jacob switched roles? What are the rules governing the manifestations of the dead folks on the island? Clearly the theory (to which I subscribed) that all the apparitions were MIB in disguise is no longer possible or accurate. Or the rules have changed.

Posted by: Coltrane at February 17, 2010 9:11 PM

MIB throwing the rock out of the cave made me think of the pilot episode. Remember when Walt found Locke playing backgammon by himself, and Locke explained the game to him? He was playing with black & white stones, and he said, "There are two players. One side is light and one side is dark."

Ok, it probably means nothing, but I just love the producers for putting callbacks in.

Posted by: Meli Mel (formerly MelBivDevoe at February 17, 2010 9:34 PM

Darth, completely agree about Sawyer. He may be down, but he's not out.

To the new transported man, I get what you're saying about Smokey killing to further MIB's motives - I'm just trying to make sense of all the killing, sometimes protecting, and helping the Others. I find it confusing that Smokey would have been called upon by the Others, who were led by Jacob - his supposed enemy. Something odd is happening there.

Posted by: Cindy at February 17, 2010 10:53 PM

Jacob and Flocke are imprisoned on the island by God/Devil (?) because during a drunken and heated discussion, both argued that humans are capable of being 100% good through time and progress. God/Devil (?) was like, nuh uh, now I'm going to leave you on this island indefinitely until you can prove me wrong.

After centuries of people coming and going, Flocke finally gives up and wants to go home with his tail between his legs - but NO, Jacob don't play that. So finally Flocke found his loophole to get rid of Jacob and all he has to do is kill everyone on the island - except he CAN'T kill Jacob's "touched" people. He'll need them to destroy themselves (Sawyer recruit). Now we see how that plays out.

Also, I think Kate wasn't one of the numbered people because she's Jacob's secret weapon. By touching her at that critical moment in her life, Jacob ensured that she'd never take responsibility for anything in her whole cunty life. Eventually she murders, runs, annoys, etc etc.

By excluding her from the numbers, Flocke thinks she's regular folk and BAM, Kate finally does something right and takes him out. Then she continues to suck at life.

Posted by: Peepants at February 17, 2010 11:04 PM

This is my absolute favorite part of Wednesdays now. I know I'm extremely late to this thread (busy day at work) but I loved every single comment posted here. To add a few thoughts of my own:

- I believe the kid to be Jacob reborn. There really would be no reason for Aaron to have bloodied arms. And if he's with Grandma somewhere how did he even get to the island? I'm one of the people who think that Aaron and Ji Yeon really aren't that important in the grand scheme of things. My money is on Jacob. Or a third possibility, what if he is someone from Enemy's past that we haven't been introduced to?

-Chickaboom mentioned the possibility of Jacob protecting the world from Enemy and I have to say I've been toying with that idea too. What if the island exists to imprison Enemy and finding the loophole and killing Jacob are just steps in him trying to escape his prison on the island.

- I haven't seen this mentioned on this thread and I don't recall it being brought up last week either. Does anyone think that perhaps the LA X timeline is the one in which Jacob never enters the lives of the Losties? In the island timeline, Jacob makes contact with each of the Losties and, as Enemy says, manipulates and pushes them toward the island. If Jacob never makes contact with them to alter the course of their lives, perhaps we're seeing how it would turn out in the LA X reality.


I really loved this episode; I think Locke's may be my favorite story of all the Losties. I liked many of the nods to the first season storyline and there were some great moments of humor, just overall a really great episode. As always, thanks for a great recap Dan!

Posted by: Even Stevens at February 18, 2010 12:47 AM

Meli Mel (formerly MelBivDevoe I think that the comment Locke made to Walt: "Two players. Two sides. One is light, one is dark." is the entire premise of the show. It's the set up for Jacob/MiB:
Jacob is in a white shirt, living under the statue of Taweret, the god of childbirth and fertility. He gives life back to Locke; he represents the light side, or the side of life. MiB in the black shirt, he can manifest into dead people (Christian, Yemi, Alex…), turns into Smokey, kills people possesses Locke’s dead body. He represents the dark side, or death. MiB throws the white stone off the scale, therefore disturbing the equilibrium that he made with Jacob.

Posted by: Scully at February 18, 2010 8:30 AM

I don't think Sawyer would be Sawyer if he wasn't pulling a long con.
The producers have said the pilot episode is very important (specifically the backgammon part) and Aaron is important, so thinking the kid is Aaron isn't that far fetched.
As for the flash sideways, I assume that everyone is their own bunny #15, and they shouldn't meet themselves.
Also interesting that Jacob made the same kind of contact with Sawyer and Jack, handing them both an object. I think everyone else was contact through clothes.

Posted by: Stew at February 18, 2010 9:39 AM

Thank you for responding to my comment Darthcorleone!

Dumb question, but I have the flu and am too tired to look. In the list of names and numbers on the cave walls/ceilings, were all of the "magic numbers" accounted for?

Posted by: Mrs. Julian at February 18, 2010 10:17 AM

Nevermind. I found the strength to look.

Posted by: Mrs. Julian at February 18, 2010 10:20 AM

Stew, love the bunny #15 reference! Also, you make an interesting point abotu the nature of Jacob's contact.
Sawyer: hands him a pen
Jack: hands him a candy bar
Kate: hands her a lunchbox, touches her nose (?)
Sayid: touches his shoulder, hands him a map (?)
Hurley: touches his shoulder, gives him the guitar case
Locke: touches his shoulder

I wonder if/how the specifics will come back around...

Posted by: Patty O'Green at February 18, 2010 3:48 PM


















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