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Live Together, Die Alone

By Daniel Carlson | Posted Under Lost Recaps | Comments (166)



lost_recap_the_candidate.jpg

Say this for “Lost”: They really know how to bring the heat as the season — or in this case, entire series — winds down. Part of this is because the show’s final three seasons feel much better plotted than the first three (well, mainly the second), a result of the show having a set end date that allowed it to begin to fold back on itself halfway through its run, like a ball tossed into the air that reaches a peak, pauses, and begins a rapid descent. This week’s “The Candidate” was a quickly paced episode with tons of action and, as often happens on “Lost” at this point in the season, a high body count. Four main characters died — well, three, plus a very likely death, I guess — which is a pretty big deal even for the inhabitants of Craphole Island. The story really worked, too, pushing us that much closer to the finale. (By the way, that May 23 finale has gained half an hour, meaning it will be two and a half hours long.)

The Los Angeles Timeline
The episode opens with Locke waking up in the hospital after his surgery to see Jack standing over him, who explains about the driver who ran Locke down. He says Locke’s dural sac was ruptured (a shout-out to Jack’s story from the pilot episode, among other instances), but that things are fine and that he thinks Locke is “a candidate.” I really wish writers Elizabeth Sarnoff and Jim Galasso had dialed it back just a bit with the details of making the subtext text, as if the juxtaposed stories of Jack striving to heal Locke and the fake Locke striving to kill Jack, both fearing the other’s “candidate” nature, was somehow not enough. Anyway, Locke says no to the experimental surgery Jack’s offering, at which point Helen comes in, hugs him, and gives Jack a kiss for saving Locke’s life.

Later, Jack heads to a dentist he learns has treated Locke to get Locke’s patient file. The dentist turns out to be Bernard, and I was grateful that there wasn’t a pointlessly ominous music cue to accompany this revelation. It was just allowed to be what it was, another reunion of the Oceanic people. “I sat across the aisle from you,” Bernard tells him as they make the connection, and it’s a creepy little moment. Bernard won’t give out confidential info but does write down the name Anthony Cooper for Jack, saying he was in the accident with Locke that left Locke paralyzed. Jack’s dialogue with Bernard also makes it clear that the Oceanic flight was only a week before.

Jack tracks down Cooper at a nursing home and is trying to talk his way past the nurse when Helen shows up, and Jack awkwardly confesses he’s there to try and learn more about Locke’s accident to figure out why he won’t try the surgery. Helen escorts him into the common area and wheels out Anthony, who’s a wrinkled old man confined to a wheelchair unable to move or speak. She reveals that it’s Locke’s father, which, yes, no surprise, so it’s not like we’re able to share Jack’s shock or anything.

Jack returns to the hospital to check on Locke, who’s out cold for the moment but mumbling in his sleep. He says “push the button” and “I wish you had believed me”; the first one’s pretty obvious, but for the forgetful, the second phrase was the suicide note he wrote to Jack in the original timeline. Jack steps out to find Claire, who’s tracked him down to ask about their father. Buying an Apollo bar from the machine, Jack listens as Claire shows him a music box that Christian left for her in his will that plays “Catch a Falling Star,” a song often sung or played in scenes involving Claire and her bye-bye baby; for starters, she asked Aaron’s potential adoptive parents to sing him that song. Jack doesn’t know anything about the box or why Christian would want Claire to have it, but he invites her to stay with him, telling her they’re family, not strangers.

Some time later, Locke is leaving the hospital, being wheeled down the hall by an orderly. He passes Jin, who’s carrying flowers and headed the other way, and pauses briefly but resumes talking shortly thereafter. Jack walks up to say goodbye and then admits to visiting Cooper, which angers and confuses Locke. To answer Jack’s prying questions, Locke says he and his dad were injured in a plane crash when Locke was at the stick, flying a private plane with his new pilot’s license. He’s now overcome with grief and remorse for what he did to Cooper, but Jack tells him that, just like Locke knew Jack needed to move on from Christian’s death, it’s time for Locke to start moving on. Jack hopes Locke will take the surgery and show them both how to let go of the past, but Locke just wheels away. “I wish you believed me,” Jack calls to him, which causes Locke to stop a while before finally leaving.

The Island Timeline
Jack wakes up in the canoe after being knocked out by the shock of the mortar round to find himself on Hydra Island, with Sayid sitting nearby. (In a helpful bit of exposition designed to trim the extras, Sayid said that MIB’s other followers bailed after the attack, leaving just MIB, Sayid, and Jack.) The Man in Black appears and tells them that the rest of the castaways are captured and being held close by, and they need to be rescued so they can leave. Jack says he still doesn’t trust MIB, but MIB says he could kill Jack any time, but since he hasn’t, he’s probably trustworthy. That logic is wildly screwy, but Jack goes with it.

Nearby, Widmore’s crew leads Sawyer et al. to the bear cages, which Sawyer refuses to enter again, even grabbing a gun from the bland white guy who usually accompanies Zoe. Widmore shows up and puts a gun to Kate’s head and orders them into the cages, which he says is for their own good. Inside, Sawyer tells Kate that Widmore probably would’ve shot her since her name was crossed off the cave wall, making her apparently less important. In the other cage, Jin and Sun talk quietly, and she puts his wedding band back on his hand, but it still feels a little too late to drum up more feeling for these two, especially since it took them so long to find each other. Which is a shame, considering what happens later on.

The power goes out, killing the sonic fence, as the smoke monster comes in and starts killing fools like crazy. Jack slips in and frees everyone, leading them into the jungle and toward the plane. At some point during the commercial break, dawn happens, so by the time Jack and the rest are closing in on the plane, it’s daytime. Jack tells Kate he’s “not meant to go” but that he’ll lead them to the Ajira plane and help them leave. Sayid shows up to tell them that Locke’s waiting for them; they still refer to him as Locke, likely because it’s easier than trying to name whatever it is pretending to be Locke.

Meanwhile, the Man in Black gets to the Ajira plane, murders the guards, and pulls the wristwatch off one of the men. He heads inside only to find wires running along the fuselage into an overhead cabin, where he discovers a bomb. He heads outside to find everyone else and shows them the C4 he just pulled off the Ajira plane, telling them that Widmore’s guards were just for show and that Widmore wanted them to get to the plane so that he could blow it up. For this reason, MIB says they now have to take the sub. (Why they can’t just take off now that the C4 is gone, or at least work around it, is not for me to say.) Hurley pipes up with a remembered warning from Richard that MIB isn’t supposed to leave the island, but Sawyer says to hell with that, so they all head off for the sub. As they walk, Sawyer whispers to Jack that he’s going to make a run for it on the sub and asks Jack to deal with MIB as a diversion when the time comes.

They all arrive at the dock, and it almost feels like old times to see them lined up again: Jack, Kate, Sawyer, Hurley, Jin, Sun, Claire, Frank the new guy, and the corporeal evil masquerading as murdered John Locke. The rest of the episode is a major action set piece, and it begins with Sawyer leading the charge down to the sub with Frank as his sidekick and Jin and Sun providing cover. He and Frank surprise the guard below and fight their way to the bridge, and as Frank starts up the engine, Kate and the others start moving down. MIB tells Jack he’s still free to come, and that whoever told him he needed to stay was wrong. Jack wheels on him and says, “John Locke told me I needed to stay,” then buts him in the chest with his rifle, sending MIB into the water. (I think he and Sawyer assumed that this would incapacitate the Man in Black, since he, like a hoverboard, can’t travel over water without a Pit Bull/jet airliner.) Right as this happens, Kate gets shot by a sniper on shore in the trees behind the dock, and more bullets start to rain as the castaways return fire on the multiple members of Widmore’s team. Jack and Sayid get Kate below deck, and soon everyone’s down there but Claire, dropping bad guys like a boss with her rifle, and the Man in Black, now soaked and crawling onto the pier. Sawyer pops his head up to call for Claire, but MIB spots him and starts running toward him, so he shuts the hatch and heads below. As the sub pulls out, Claire turns to run after it, but the Man in Black catches her and pulls her back, saying, “Trust me, you don’t wanna be on that sub.” This will not go well.

Below, Jack starts to tend to Kate’s wound, noting that the bullet went all the way through her shoulder area, but when he opens his pack to look for medical supplies, he finds the C4 that MIB pulled from the plane, rigged up with the dead guard’s watch, with timer ticking down from just under four minutes. Jack realizes that they all did exactly as the Man in Black wanted them to, having forgotten the important lesson that all warfare is based on deception. The whole thing was a set-up, but it’s still got some twists to unveil. Sayid inspects the bomb and determines that yanking two wires simultaneously will kill it, so Sawyer steps up to do it, but Jack tells him to stop. Jack’s theory is that the bomb won’t go off because MIB set it, and he’s not allowed to kill them on his own. Jack posits that MIB didn’t need them to leave; he needed them dead so he could leave, which meant getting them all together in a small space like the sub and blowing it up. If they wind up killing each other, they’ll be doing the Enemy’s work for him. It’s an interesting theory, and probably right, given Jack’s recent brush with near-death (like with Richard in the Black Rock) and his seeming anointing by Jacob. But Sawyer isn’t buying, so he yanks the wires. It stops the clock for a moment, but then the countdown resumes, going even quicker.

Then things get downright brutal. Sayid, knowing that they can’t all make it, turns to Jack and tells him Desmond’s hidden on the island and that Jack will need Desmond’s help. (It’s no surprise Sayid didn’t kill him — Desmond’s too vital — but the question is what turned him around.) Jack asks why, and Sayid answers, “It’s going to be you, Jack.” And he takes the bomb and runs down the hall, where moments later it explodes, killing him and crippling the sub.

The ensuing flooding and wreckage are disastrous: Frank is knocked down by a steel door that explodes off its hinges, likely winding up dead. (I only say “likely” because Jin survived a boat explosion, but then again, there are only a few eps left, so why wait around to bring back a minor character?) Sun gets pinned behind some wreckage as the waters rise, and Jack grabs a small breathing canister and sends Hurley away with the unconscious Kate. Hurley wants to go back for Sayid, but Jack shouts, “There is not Sayid!” Jack, Sawyer, and Jin wind up pulling the metal hunk away from Sun, but it turns out she’s trapped against the wall in a much more dire twisting of steel. Sawyer gets knocked out, and Jack starts dragging him around; at this point the waters are at neck height. Jin orders Jack to go, and though he refuses at first, Jack eventually yields. The moment where he looks at Jin and knows what’s about to happen but can’t bring himself to say anything is a killer. Jack takes Sawyer and the last breathing canister and heads out through the flooding bulkhead.

Jin struggles to free Sun, but it’s pointless. She tells him to go, but he won’t, telling her in English and Korean that he promised never to leave her again. They profess their love for each other and kiss one last time, and eventually the water overtakes them. The shot of their lifeless hands clasped together, then drifting apart, is downright heartbreaking. I’ve griped plenty about these characters, and their episode a few weeks back remains a weak one, but this is still a tragic end to their story. Yet I couldn’t help but feel I’d have been more moved if it had happened a year earlier. The Jin-Sun arc was just too drawn out, and it became impossible to care about Sun’s plaintive quest after this many close calls. I also think it’s amazing that she didn’t tell Jin to leave so he could take care of the daughter they had talked about like four hours earlier. Ji Yeon is now an orphan because her mom wanted her dad to die with her. Sorry, kid. Better luck in the alternate timeline.

Jack staggers to shore with Sawyer, who’s breathing but unconscious. (It’s also now dark again, for some reason. Are they on Narnia time?) Hurley and Kate come up and collapse as Jack tells them that Jin and Sun didn’t make it. Hurley and Kate both begin to weep, but Hurley’s tears mean more because (a) Kate cries a lot and (b) he had more genuine affection for Sayid and the others than anyone else, and he’s had to deal with a lot of his friends dying. Jack walks off to the water line to shed his own tears, and the look on his face is one of a man who doesn’t know what his next step will be. I also think that, in a way, this was the price the group had to pay to come to trust Jack. Sawyer’s actions, though he couldn’t know it at the time, wound up causing the deaths of three major characters who have been their friends for years, and I’m pretty sure when he wakes up he’ll be willing to follow Jack’s orders.

Back at the dock, the Man in Black looks over the water and then tells Claire that the sub has sunk. She asks if everyone’s dead, but MIB says, “Not all of them.” He grabs his pack and walks away to “finish what [he] started,” and the screen goes black.

And that’s that. Overall, a very strong episode and an appropriately epic, stage-setting one, though I think some parts (no one caring about Ji Yeon, etc.) kept it from being great. Similarly, it was nice to see Sayid sacrifice himself for his friends, but it felt a little anticlimactic after his bizarre resurrection and infection earlier this year. Was he cured of that? Did meeting Desmond do it? Why? Sayid has been a fantastic, layered character for six years, and those can be rare on “Lost,” and I feel like Charlie got a better send-off.

Also: When will we learn whether Jin or Sun was the candidate? Maybe Jacob will pop in and reveal it in the next couple weeks. The remaining living candidates are Jack, Sawyer, and Hurley. Either one of them will have to step up to replace Jacob, or they’ll be able to ditch the concept entirely by defeating MIB once and for all.

I liked the manipulations of the Man in Black in this episode, especially the way it kind of paralleled Miles’ warning at the end of last season that maybe trying to stop an incident is what makes the incident happen. I also think it’s important that he seemed to be able to feel or sense that the sub had sunk but alos that not everyone had died, though whether this is because he’s emotionally attuned to them or because he tried to leave and couldn’t is up in the air. (Though I guess that would mean he could fly away across the water once they’re all dead, which doesn’t seem to be the case, so maybe he can just sense their presences.) The L.A. timeline stuff was interesting, as well, though mainly for the little moments where the Oceanic passengers started to sense something was wrong with their universe. Locke was briefly startled to see Jin, but the way he stopped cold when he heard Jack say “I wish you believed me” has to mean he’s seeing through to the other side.

Seriously, though: What was up with Walt? I know some mysteries will be left just that, but I want this one answered.

Daniel Carlson is the managing editor of Pajiba and a member of the Houston Film Critics Society, as well as a TV blogger for the Houston Press. You can visit his blog, Slowly Going Bald.









Video: Kat Dennings and Puppies | Pajiba Love 05/05/10













Comments

Is it just me or is this post plagued by strike-out?

Anyway, top three episode of the season, perhaps number one. Shit went down!

Posted by: L.O.V.E. at May 5, 2010 11:34 AM

Can't read! Eyes hurt! Please remove strike tag!

Posted by: Pinky McLadybits at May 5, 2010 11:36 AM

Not just you.

Excellent episode. I cried a little ;(

Posted by: jcollier at May 5, 2010 11:36 AM

Sweet lines!

Posted by: logar at May 5, 2010 11:38 AM

Now we can say anything, and it won't count.

Posted by: logar at May 5, 2010 11:39 AM

Holy Strikeout Lines, Batman!

Posted by: Drake at May 5, 2010 11:39 AM

D'oh!

Posted by: logar at May 5, 2010 11:40 AM

Smokey...is that you?

I cut and pasted the text into word and removed the strikethroughs.

Posted by: Patti at May 5, 2010 11:43 AM

I done told y'all that shit was about to hit the fan!

I agree with most everything you've written, Dan. Sayid was my favorite character for five seasons, and they did so much to kill him over the course of this season that I had to blink a few times before I realized they had finally written him off so nonchalantly. Yes, he redeemed himself, but it was too quick and overshadowed by Jin's and Sun's deaths.

I am pissed about Jin and Sun dying the way they did. I don't mind that tney died - I've been thinking for a few episodes that everyone's going to die before the end - but I think the way they went was cheap and did a disservice to the characters and the fans. I'm more convinced than ever that the al-universe is what we're going to end up with, so we might as well start getting used to the Losties in their "new" lives.

Why the hell aren't Darlton writing ALL the final episodes? There were far too many weak moments in this one for it to be the fourth from the last, you know?

Posted by: Kolby at May 5, 2010 11:46 AM

Is it just me or is the review is crossed out? Did you realize you were wrong all he way?

Anyway great review, and a damn good episode, as per use since three weeks now, and as you say, since the season and the show are about to end. Jin and Sun dying was pretty overwhelming...

But Sayid sacrificing himself was indeed really surprising. I thought he was zombified, and then, in last episode, he obviously spared Desmond. So why just drop the explication of his zombie state and subsequent changing of character?

Posted by: rg at May 5, 2010 11:49 AM

I told my daughter, whose not a big Lost fan, afterward about Sun and Jin, and Sayid, and even she was shocked. That shot of their hands parting was heartbreaking. I also kept waiting for her to tell him to go for the daughter he's never seen.

Hurley's sobs were heart-wrenching. He really sounded busted up. I love the big lug.

I did notice the mirror shot of Jack and Claire in the music box...mean anything?

Overall, this episode seemed to have been written and shot while the entire crew was on speed. All I can think is....NOW WHAT????

Posted by: dammitjanet at May 5, 2010 11:49 AM

I was struck by the parallel of redemption for Michael and Sayid using a bomb on a boat. Probably doesn't mean anything in the big picture.

Overall enjoyable episode. I too wasn't as moved by Jin/Sun as I would have been earlier, and as it was happening I was wondering about their daughter.

Posted by: Drake at May 5, 2010 11:51 AM

Dammitjanet - I've noticed that since Jack began to accept his island fate he's always appeared with someone else in the sidewaysflash mirrors. Last time with Locke, this time with Claire. And I think it was beautiful that Jack gave Claire what she has been yearning for for the past three years on the island - a family. He refused to abandon her.

Also, I nearly hyperventilated when Sayid told Jack, "Because it's you, Jack."

Posted by: Kolby at May 5, 2010 11:54 AM

The manner in which they offed Sayid, the Kwons, & fucking LAPIDUS does not get this commenter's endorsement. Sayid shoulda stayed dead from his gunshot wound last season. The Kwons deserved a happy ending, but Ji Yeon is still supposed to factor into the ending in some fashion, so I guess their deaths were inevitable. Still, I am filled with rage. Fare thee well, Lapidus!

Posted by: the new transported man at May 5, 2010 11:55 AM

I don't want to be nitpicky, but, judging from the time changes from night to day in the last couple of episodes, they've been awake for at least a week straight at this point right?

Posted by: Brian at May 5, 2010 11:56 AM

I also couldn't believe that Sun wouldn't tell her husband to get out so he can one day raise their only child. Ugh.

Posted by: L.O.V.E. at May 5, 2010 11:56 AM

dammitjanet, you must be right about the speed consumption. When the episode ended I was baffled, like it was missing another half. I guess it was one of those episodes that stand out with their unusual rapid pace.

Posted by: rg at May 5, 2010 11:56 AM

I also think it’s amazing that she didn’t tell Jin to leave so he could take care of the daughter they had talked about like four hours earlier.

Seriously! I actually yelled at the tv, "But what about Ji Yeon?!?"

I am rather angry that the writers drug out the Jin-Sun reunion so long only to have them freakin' bite it in the next episode. "Here you go, they're back together again, all is well - oops! Just kidding, now they're dead!"

Sayid sacrificing himself was indeed really surprising. I thought he was zombified, and then, in last episode, he obviously spared Desmond. So why just drop the explication of his zombie state and subsequent changing of character?

I wondered that too, rg. Maybe when we finally see his confrontation with Desmond, it will start to make sense. If we GET to see it, that is.

Posted by: MelBivDevoe at May 5, 2010 11:57 AM

I'm not going to lie. I cried like a baby last night. I really wanted an emotional Sayid death scene as well and all I got was an explosion. I hate you Lost (but I really love you).

Posted by: Wendy at May 5, 2010 11:57 AM

Did they answer where Miles was in all of this?

Posted by: Optimus Rhyme at May 5, 2010 11:58 AM

I would have been more upset about Jin and Sun if they hadn't been speaking so much english to each other, it just feels wrong. Also I thought she was going to tell him to go take care of their daughter, but I would be pissed to hear my dad left my mom to die, so there's that.
I was pretty upset about Sayid, he had just stopped being a zombie too! Did Desmond wake him up?

Posted by: kel at May 5, 2010 12:00 PM

Optimus - Miles is with Richard and Ben. Supposedly looking for C-4 to rig the plane with....wait a minute...

The more I think about Jin staying with Sun despite their little girl needing a parent, the more I realize that there's no way Jin would have been able to make it to the surface without oxygen. Hurley and Jack took the last tanks with them, Jin knew he wasn't going to leave the submarine. He and Jack shared a look that said all this, if I remember correctly. He knew he was going to die, so he died with his one true love. It's actually quite lovely, if you think of it that way.

Posted by: Kolby at May 5, 2010 12:03 PM

Honest to goodness, I was reading the review and I thought, "Wait? Lapidus died? No he didn-- but he never left the sub!! HOLY CRAP!!" And then I almost cried again at my desk.

I did a lot of screaming at my TV last night. Drowning terrifies me, so having to watch actors fake it or "prepare for it" gives me the shakes. So I'm crying and shaking while yelling at my TV, "I HATE THIS! I HATE THIS! Get out of the flippin' water!"

I'm so glad I don't have a dog. It would have been flipping out with me.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at May 5, 2010 12:06 PM

I think the fact that most of them died was indeed a bold move, but also a realistic plot. I mean, what are the chances to survive a submarine wreck? So yeah, they died. And yeah Smocke's plan was nearly perfec'. So stop whining like little bitches about what must have been. I thought that was overall very well done. Jin couldn't leave the woman he loved like that, it was touching and maybe titanicheesy but fuck if I wasn't sad, and even sadder (my balls forbid me to cry) when they were weeping on the beach, cause yeah, they were enititled to. And having been raised by DBZ, the Bejito move Sayid accomplished was boss.

Personally, i'm waiting for Lapidus to emerge from the sea anytime soon, fingers crossed.

Posted by: rg at May 5, 2010 12:07 PM

Question: Is Widmore potentially one of the candidates? Does Flocke need to kill him to get off the island. I got that idea that Flcoke believed all the losties were dead, but that he still needed to get Widmore.


Widmore has sure done a hell of a lot to get back to the island and to kill Flocke.

Posted by: L.O.V.E. at May 5, 2010 12:11 PM

Thanks for the thorough recap as always!

When you said four, I was like: "Who?" I cared about the other characters so much that I completely forgot about Lapidus at the end of the episode.

I thought of the Ji Yeon factor as well in Jin's hanging around to die with Sun, but it didn't really bother me that much. Sun could judge for herself the resolve in Jin's manner to stay with her. On top of that:

1) Her mother will take care of their daughter.

2) What are they odds Jin is truly going to get off this island? It would seem that MIB and Widmore are both trying to kill them, they lost the pilot, they have no means of transport, etc., etc. It's not looking good.

3) There is just something elemental and basic in their wanting to die together, and when the water is rushing in like that, I can relate to giving in to that impulse. Yes, maybe it's a touch selfish, but these characters have got to simply be worn out by now. Surrendering to death after all this island has thrown at them is an easy out, but it could be a tempting one.

I enjoyed the episode. It's good to see the pace get amped up. We've got some serious momentum now.

The Sayid flip-flop is a little puzzling; I suppose we can take it at face value that he was sick and deluded but he did still have some degree of morality and free will. (He would have to in order for the temptation of a reunion with Nadia to have any sort of effect on him in the first place.)

I still think we're completely done with Walt, and I don't see the need to explore his character further.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at May 5, 2010 12:15 PM

I don't think Widmore is a candidate. I just think he's been privy to much of the island's mystery, probably thanks to Eloise, and knows it needs protecting. Also, he's a power-hungry douche who hates that he was never leader.

I think MIB knew that some of the candidates survived the sub explosion and siking, because whatever magic's been holding him to the island was still there. He needs them ALL the die before he's free.

Posted by: Kolby at May 5, 2010 12:16 PM

I cannot believe they didn't address the child thing. I was crying out of rage not sadness. How unbelievably selfish.

GAH

I know I know Jin and Sun were sort of over as characters and there was nothing else to be done BUT THEY HAVE A CHILD. DOES NO ONE REMEMBER THAT?

I couldn't care less about Sayid. His character was read to go like...4th season.

I'm hoping Jin and Sun and baby live happily ever after in the alternate timeline. Or else I'm going to at least think about considering breaking a Lost DVD.

But just one.

From like season 3 maybe.

Posted by: buttercup at May 5, 2010 12:16 PM

The turning point for Sayid was when he was about to kill Desmond per MIB's orders & Desmond asked Sayid how he was going to explain to the love of his life, Nadia what he did in order to resurrect her & how she would feel about his answer. He knew he'd lose her all over again.

Posted by: Erin at May 5, 2010 12:18 PM

I haven’t read the recap yet, but I think it is clearly time to fire up some Joseph Campbell.

There is no surprise that Jack is the Candidate and has been identified as such by Sayid. So the question becomes, what action has to be taken for Jack to fully transition into his role? Doesn’t the Hero have to choose his place? He/she is separate from the group (he walks among us, but is not one of us), but has to choose, let go and accept heroic isolation. With only Hugo, Sawyer and Kate remaining with him, and only two of those people having some kind of potential role, I think Kate will be a pawn. Locke can use Kate as a weapon since she is the only one he can kill. If he threatens to kill her and Jack chooses not to intercede or allows others to prevent the sacrifice, then he has chosen his place and “becomes” Jacob. It does not matter if she lives or dies, it only matters that Jack lets her go. Sawyer can still save Kate and I think they will get off the island. Hugo remains to replace Richard.

Jin and Sun were never going to be chosen. Their story was a love story about loss and reparation, but they were never in the grand scheme. Everything in Hugo’s life pushed him to the island. The “cursed” lottery numbers and aftermath pushed him away from the world instead of to it. Like Jack, he does not really have anything to go back to. Sawyer at least has a child.

So for the other questions, what really matters? So much falls away as being part of the petty machinations of men oblivious to the larger schemes of gods and the universe. I think it will be really interesting to see what gets answered:

Widmore understands the island better than any “mortal”, but what exactly does he want? I think he views the scheming of Jacob/MIB as something to not get in the way of, but he wants to harness the power of the island. All of the infighting between The Others and The Dharma initiative are just humans not seeing the forest for the trees.

How will the alternate universes bleed into each other? As Locke, Hugo and Jack remain behind, does everyone else get to go forward with their lives and the two worlds blend?

Will they confirm that Adam and Eve are Bernard and Rose?

Does Desmond really need to make another sacrifice for the island?


Who’s going to die? Jin and Sun proved the redemptive power of love and died. I think Ben will be sacrificed as some kind of amends for what first seemed like Machiavellian genius and now seems like a prolonged temper tantrum. Lapidus was supposed to die all along and by doing so in the submarine has finally chosen (by getting on the second flight to the island) the path that leads to his destiny. Claire is done too as she is “claimed” and now a violated version of her true self.

Miles will get off the island so he and Sawyer can have their own cop show!

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 5, 2010 12:22 PM

I actually felt moved by Kate's tears because she had developed a pretty close relationship with Sun over the years. I liked their friendship! Bonding over pregnancy tests, keeping each others' secrets (like way back in the first season when Kate knew Sun spoke English), setting up Aaron and Ji Yeon play dates... A lot of TV shows set up female characters to be rivals and I like that Lost is different. They kept all that rivalry business to Jack and Sawyer and let the women develop a tight circle.

Posted by: Cree83 at May 5, 2010 12:23 PM

Jesus Christ, Mrs. Julien, I am on board with so much of what you just said. Except I think everyone dies.

The Kate as a pawn theory scares the shit out of me.

Posted by: Kolby at May 5, 2010 12:26 PM

Great episode that did what it needed to do. Some of the Candidates are gone, Jack should be back in charge after learning what it takes to follow, and the losties are now overlapping like crazy in the LA Timeline.

We will DEFINITELY find out through Desmond why Sayid didn't kill him, and it will probably be what you already know. Sayid couldn't think of a way to tell his true love about doing things like this, so he didn't do it.

It feels like it will all come down to a bartering between MIB and Jack since Jack seems to be sussing out MIB's tactics. But Jack needs to know MIB's ultimate endgame or it'll all be for naught. Does MIB think that killing all the candidates will free him? Can he still get off the island with the remaining people? Do we really know about every single candidate that's left? What influence does the blond teenager (young Jacob?) have over him? Is all of this being influenced/puppeteered by Walt's super mind powers?

I love that the preview for next week gave us less than nothing in the way of spoilers. And I love the extra half hour added to the finale.

Posted by: Kballs at May 5, 2010 12:27 PM

On the issue of which Kwon was the candidate? I believe it was neither Jin or Sun but instead their child. Ji-Yeon KWON.
Yea....let that sink it.

Posted by: chapps at May 5, 2010 12:39 PM

the alt reality is THE reality. I bet my left boob.

I also still haven't given up on the idea that Locke and WTFlocke will somehow merge consciousnesses and will restore balance. As in, Locke will keep WTFlocke in check and he and Jack will be sitting on that rock on the beach.

Also do we have any evidence that Kate isn't a candidate aside from the fact that Sawyer saw her name crossed out on the cave with WTFlocke?

Gah!

Posted by: stopthemadness at May 5, 2010 12:39 PM

Chapps - they cleared it up in last week's enhanced episode (Ab Aeterno), that the Kwon candidate was indeed either Jin or Sun.

Posted by: Kolby at May 5, 2010 12:40 PM

Is it possible the island created Jacob to keep whatever immense power, likely always to be shrouded in mystery, in check? That Jacob, once created, chose the mortal MIB to be the smoke monster, and in given certain restrictions, his island-requirement. Are the candidates then those who replace the Caretakers of the island once the balance is offset? Is Jack going to be the new Jacob? Once we do get the inevitable Locke death/obliteration scene, is Jack going to select a new Smokie? Is Alpert going to die as he is no longer under Jacob's spell, and are Miles and Linus sticking around in the cast because they are going to assume similar roles to Smokie and Alpert?

Posted by: Jackseppelin at May 5, 2010 12:40 PM

kolby, I am not sure that he needed them dead in order to be free. They - Sun/Jin, Hurley, Jack and James - were potentially a replacement for Jacob. Most wanted out so it was really Jack who represented a menace for his freedom, and had to be killed. Now Smocke need to off the remaining candidates to go and never be bothered by a candidate deciding to assume his role, be that Jack, James or Hurley. He couldn't care less about Claire, Miles, Ben, Alpert, Lapidus (he's alive so he can fly the plane so "séchez vos larmes") or, like most of you, Kate. And maybe that will be decisive at some point, cause you may not like her, but she can be badass - not in the levels of Ellen Ripley - but still pretty badass.

I can't wait.

Posted by: rg at May 5, 2010 12:41 PM

Great episode (and recap); I was mildly annoyed by the lack of acknowledgment of Frank's death but I thought that Jin staying with Sun was a great moment (there's no way he could have swam to safety without an air tank at that point so he might as well die with the woman he loves instead of next to some fishes or a random submarine crewman in the way to the exit)

Posted by: Radlum at May 5, 2010 12:43 PM

i admit, i started blubbering a little last night...
even tho i could see it coming it still grabbed my throat.
kept waiting for sun to send jin off to be a dad too tho.
(and for them to explain the strange sudden daylight/night changes.)
locke choking up while telling jack what happened to his dad also got me.
terry o'quinn deserves (another) emmy.
[as an aside-happened to catch the movie 'tombstone' for the first time in years & nearly flipped my shit when i saw him playing the mayor-totally forgot about it!]
i don't think they're necessarily done telling sayid's story...
i think they'll come back to what happened between him & desmond.
did anybody else hold their breath when kate got shot?
i wondered if they would actually let her die, but of course not.
THAT would of been more of a shock, i think.
also, do you think that locke's dad, anthony cooper, is still the same one that sawyer's been looking for?
will that be how they reunite in the alt-timeline?
maybe locke will realize that his dad was an asshole, realease the guilt, & opt for the surgery?
is claire a candidate? she's a shepard too.
she might use littleton, but she's christian's daughter, so her real last name is also shepard.
would smocke even know that's a possibility?
is he aware they're siblings?
is he using her as a final piece?
also, i thought it was telling when sawyer mentioned that everything was happening in cycles again...back in the cages, but this time his and kate's roles were reversed...etc.
interesting to see that smocke can get his smoke on on hydra island.
didn't know if it carried over from the main island.
since you brought up miles-just where did he, ben, and richard wind up?
3 cheers for the finale being 2 1/2 hours!

Posted by: lager at May 5, 2010 12:46 PM

IF Locke can't kill candidates, and IF Sun or Jin was a candidate, THEN it seems it must be Jin, since he chose his own death.

Posted by: elizabeth at May 5, 2010 12:53 PM

Screw Sun and Jin if you ask me. I was so done with them that I felt nothing really - once I realized neither of them was going to say, "Hey, maybe one of us should survive and be a parent to Ji Yeon?" I was too disgusted to worry about them dying or being together. Selfish, that's what they were.

So number one: Why didn't MIB just let the gang get on the plane and blow up?

Number two: Does MIB need everyone dead to get off the island, or does he need them dead so he can control the island? After all, we've been hit over the head with the idea of balance between good and evil. If Jacob is not replaced, then the island could become entirely evil - and would that evil then upset the balance of the rest of the world? Is the island a microcosm that sets the stage for the rest of the world? Does MIB need to escape to affect the rest of the world, or could the absence of good on the island do the trick? I still don't think Jacob is entirely good or has only the best interest of others at heart, but clearly the balance is a big factor on island.

I'm going to be really disappointed if the sideways ends up as reality. So let me just put that out there for you Darlton!

Posted by: Cindy at May 5, 2010 12:53 PM

mrs. julien, i think what you just said makes a lot of sense. is there a chance that everyone thinks that kate is not a candidate but she really is? so perhaps wtflocke will attempt to use her as a pawn in some manner, but ultimately won't be able to?

who is the sixth candidate? inquiring minds want to know!

Posted by: stopthemadness at May 5, 2010 12:54 PM

Great episode.

But like many of you, I feel for the weak death of Sayid. He was a top 5 character throughout the show and deserved a more heroic and less ambiguous finale.

Show of hands: who thinks Hurley will be the last one standing? Then he can still hang out with all his dead friends. XD

Posted by: BAM at May 5, 2010 12:55 PM

Elizabeth, good catch.

But I think just the reverse. Sun was the candidate because candidates can't kill themselves, either. Jin effectively committed suicide which rules him out.

Posted by: Jackseppelin at May 5, 2010 12:55 PM

I'm really suspicious of how Widmore decided to guard his escape vehicles. The plane was guarded by what, two guys? And the bomb was in plain sight so that even a half-blind child could find it. Which leads me to think that maybe he wanted Locke to find the bomb, and keep it.

Then, the submarine. Why were there only like three guys guarding it? They eventually showed more guards, but what took them so long to shoot, and why did they only get Kate, if they were snipers?

What I'm trying to get at is that maybe Widmore wanted the MIB to do what he did--switching the bags, leading them all into the sub and having them blow up. Why? I have NO idea. Well, maybe a tiny theory that Widmore wanted them all away from the MIB, and wanted them all to remain on the Island. If that meant killing some of the final candidates, so be it, as long as some of them survived. It's pretty damn cold-hearted, but it's not like Jacob and his buddies haven't been willing to do anything to protect the Island.

It's messed up, but it could be right.

I felt gut-punched when Sayid died. I knew he would, eventually, but oh god it was terrible. It was a pretty noble death, though, so I suppose he did end up doing something right before he died. Still pretty horrible, though. Frank's death also affected me more than Jin and Sun's, maybe because he had done nothing wrong and he just snuffed it. But their deaths were still pretty horrible, and really just shocking

Posted by: figgy at May 5, 2010 12:55 PM

Although this was a great ep, one thing really stuck out to me and didn't make sense. Widmore's crew fires on the candidates indiscriminately when they are getting on the sub. If they kill them, it's all over, and Widmore knows it. Why would they do that?

Posted by: frobme at May 5, 2010 12:56 PM

Anyway, I loved the episode. I didn't think the deaths were cheap--they just were. Even if Jin could've gotten out I really loved that he stayed, because how horrible would it have been to live without Sun again?

I think Sayid had just given up on everything, and this was his way of getting out of what he knew was a completely empty life. It's terrible, but that was it.

Posted by: figgy at May 5, 2010 12:56 PM

Half hour added. This does not equate to an additional half hour of story of craphole island, unless 60 second dramas selling consumeables counts as story.

Posted by: halesonearth at May 5, 2010 12:58 PM

how was MIB positive that he was going to be able to get jack on that sub and that the sub would take off with him on board?

Posted by: stopthemadness at May 5, 2010 12:58 PM

I think Locke has to kill them all before Jacob's replacement assumes the
position (as it were).

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 5, 2010 12:59 PM

elizabeth, it's not whet he chose that matters. Locke can't kill them, which means that if Sawyer had not removed te wires, the bomb wouldn't have exploded. It his choice that cost Sayid, Jin and Sun to die. Motherfucker doesn't know it, Jack knows it, so I guess, they're even vis-à-vis de Juliet.

Posted by: rg at May 5, 2010 1:00 PM

stopthemadness, maybe he told his people to shoot kate so jack would take her on the sub to examine the wound, maybe he sent those people ahead to take care of the guards...

Posted by: kel at May 5, 2010 1:03 PM

I think every candidate has to die - thereby finally ending the game in MIB's favor. If even one survives and assumes the role of island protector, then the game is over and MIB loses, and continues his imprisonment on the island.

Posted by: Kolby at May 5, 2010 1:04 PM

@figgy, I question Widmore's motives as well, but it's safe to say that they are probably selfish. I could see a scenario such as 'help MIB kill the candidates, trap the MIB in a sonic area, utilize the power of the island for himself.' Since he was originally on the island and had a lot of power back then, he probably knows at least some of the capabilities of the island and a lot of the politics between the Jacob/MIB deities.

Of course he won't succeed, because people would riot haha.

Posted by: BAM at May 5, 2010 1:05 PM

stopthemadness: I think he was just not gonna get on the sub no matter what. All he really needed was to delay his arrival just enough, and Jack did all the work for him in the end.

Posted by: figgy at May 5, 2010 1:05 PM

Mrs Julien, that's must be exactly why Kate is not a candidate, so that in the end, she serves as a leverage for MIB. I think it's safe to say that you're right about that.

Posted by: rg at May 5, 2010 1:09 PM

kel, i guess that makes sense.

kate has got to be a bigger player than everyone assumes she is. she has survived way too many close calls and there was a lot of focus on the apparent irrelevance of kate.

and i love matthew fox's party of five-style crying.

Posted by: stopthemadness at May 5, 2010 1:10 PM

@stopthemadness re: Also do we have any evidence that Kate isn't a
candidate aside from the fact that Sawyer saw her name crossed out on the
cave with WTFlocke?

That cave has been very accurate and Widmore said the same thing. It
isn’t her.

@Jackseppelin re: Once we do get the inevitable Locke death/obliteration
scene, is Jack going to select a new Smokie?

This is the eternal struggle and although it “only ends once”, this is not the
time. Flocke isn’t going to die because he can’t die anymore than good or
evil can be removed from the world. I bet that Locke and Jack end up
together because they now represent the opposing views of life/destiny
and free will central to the show.

@cindy re: Why didn't MIB just let the gang get on the plane and blow up?

Because he would have had to be on the plane with them and get blown
up himself. He played Sawyer like a fiddle. Locke understands human nature,
but he has no faith in it. Jacob understood it too, but he trusted it.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 5, 2010 1:12 PM

Because he would have had to be on the plane with them and get blown up himself.

Not necessarily. Sawyer didn't want MIB coming with them regardless of how they got off.

Posted by: Cindy at May 5, 2010 1:16 PM

mrs. julien, yes but what if her name being crossed off is a fake-out?

sort of like jacob's last line of defense?

Posted by: stopthemadness at May 5, 2010 1:18 PM

I'm with you, Kolby. Because it's pretty clear now that MIB didn't want anyone to get off the Island, and he couldn't have left on the sub anyway. They all need to die, and he might as well kill them as a group, since that's easier.

I don't know about Widmore wanting to take over the Island,BAM. I could be wrong but isn't just about everyone in this place dead already? Unless he's planning on bringing some other people over I say he'd have like 10 people to rule. And how would he get off, or get people back on to the Island?

I still think Widmore is working entirely on Jacob's orders, or plans. I used to think he was just the absolute villain, but now I've come around to think otherwise.

Posted by: figgy at May 5, 2010 1:19 PM

@Kolby - I think every candidate has to die - thereby finally ending the game
in MIB's favor. If even one survives and assumes the role of island protector,
then the game is over and MIB loses, and continues his imprisonment on the island.

The game only continues if Locke is kept on the island and creates balance
in the universe by the presence of the protector; Otherwise he is free to wreak havoc. The protector is what keeps him there and it is the protector's absence
that MIB is trying to exploit to escape.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 5, 2010 1:19 PM

I never liked Sun very much but I was amazed at how heartbreaking last night's episode was.

I completely lost it when Sayid took the bomb but the moment that sealed the deal for me is one of Lost's most classic tear-jerking moves...when Michael Giacchino's "Life and Death" played over Jin and Sun's final moments together.

That piece of music has moved me to tears over a hundred times during the series run, most notabled in Deus Ex Machina which remains one of my favorite episodes where Boone dies and Locke is left banging on the hatch in serious question of his faith and role on the island.

Another part aspect of this episode I loved was Jack's transformation. I'll be the first to admit that I've always hated Jack. I probably spent more time yelling at the tv because of him than I did for Kate. I always sided with Locke and Jack was always so narrow-minded, so unwilling to look past his own misery at the bigger picture. But last night changed everything, I am 100% in his corner for the FIRST TIME EVER since this show began. And his exchange with Locke at the end in the hospital was also heartbreaking, just to see Jack grow as a characted and try to put the past behind him and move on from the grief that his relatiosnhip with his father caused him.

Bravo Lost, bravo!

Posted by: citizen_cris at May 5, 2010 1:20 PM

Why would a little C-4 worry MIB? A simple man-made bomb wouldn't hurt him, no way. I think, by switching their focus to the submarine and killing them there, he also takes out the one person who could have operated the plane (my beloved Lapidus). If he let them get on the plane, and some survived it crashing or whatever, there'd be the off chance that they'd then try the sub and potentially succeed in escaping. He was covering his bases by taking them out on the sub.

Posted by: Kolby at May 5, 2010 1:20 PM

Oh and Jack and Sawyer should totally be even now in regards to their involvement in killing their friends.

Posted by: citizen_cris at May 5, 2010 1:22 PM

Every time I hear "Life and Death" on this show, I start to cry. I'm like Pavlov's fucking dog when it comes to that particular piece of music.

And every time it starts to play, I yell at my TV, "Fuck you Giacchino! Fuck you and these goddamn tears!"

Posted by: Kolby at May 5, 2010 1:24 PM

This ep seemed both stretched out (alternate reality) and sped up (island stuff). I hate the alt stuff, still, even tho I know it's supposed to be important. Would it really have been so damn hard for Locke to say that he's paralyzed from an accident? No. Just staring til the commercial. I hate that shit. JUST FUCKING SAY IT, FOR GOD'S SAKE!! I did like that Locke and his father fell out of the sky together, instead of just Locke getting shoved out a window. Same, but different. Dunno about Jack's visiting a dentist to get info on a patient, but gotta shoehorn those Losties in somehow, right?

Not sorry and no tears shed for Jin and Sun. Tired of them. Nice how Sayid just snapped to being himself again, right down to the accent, which is a mystery that I don't care about anymore. However, the bomb scene reminded me of why I liked Lost in the first place - great suspense for a moment - then it was over and back to the wrap up.

Here's the thing I don't get: if Jacob is really dead, how is he popping up all the time looking so young? Do they not really need a "new" Jacob figure? Is the candidate really someone who is there to kill the smoke monster or at least re-trap/control him somehow? It's set up like a duality of good and evil, but it's not about good or evil. FakeLocke is going around killing folks, but he is playing a long range game to do...what? Last guy standing on Planet Earth? Then what? And there is a way to control him...but how? I sure hope next week's show explains that shit, because I'm out of patience. I've thought alot about the hero myth and what that means, and good and evil and how easy it is to turn someone and sacrifice and all that...but in the end, I don't have enough clues from this show to figure out the what and the why of any of it. That is definitely taking away from the tension, because I just don't get it. I'm not saying that I wish I could see what was coming or how it would work out. I mean, it feels like a big empty unsatisfying set-up. A multi-season hustle, if you will.

And if that alternate reality is the "real" reality, we have literally been sitting thru bullshit this whole time, with these characters we've come to care for, for their story arcs which we've been so drawn to, for the fun we've all had with it...it is all bullshit of the worst sort, and I sure hope that won't be it.

Having said that, I'm really going to miss Sawyer's character when this is over, because that guy was way fun to watch (and, of course, a hotness). I'd watch a Miles/Sawyer cop show every week, that's for sure.

Posted by: Chickaboom at May 5, 2010 1:27 PM

What if the candidate is neither Jin nor Sun? What if Ji Yeon is the candidate?

Posted by: Az at May 5, 2010 1:28 PM

i really didn't have much of a reaction when sayid took off with that bomb. he's been dead to me all season.

for me one of tear jerkiest moments still is season finale of the first season when WAAAALT!! and co. took off on the raft and vincent tried to swim after them and WAAALT! started yelling for him to go back.

oh jesus croutons, i'm getting teary just thinking about it. i'm a sucker for dogs.


speaking of vincent...

where the fuck is he?

Posted by: stopthemadness at May 5, 2010 1:29 PM

@stopthemadness

My entire gut response to that is no. Why ON EARTH would it be Kate?
What is there in her character that bespeaks leadership? She is befuddled
and selfish. It's Jack Shepherd. It has always been Jack and always will be
Jack.

Jacob's last line of defense was his faith in human nature and free will. His
dying words were, "What about you?". It is the crux of his entire role and existence.

Or I could be reading too much universal hero myth into the whole thing,
but I do so love that stuff!

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 5, 2010 1:30 PM

That's what I was about to say Kolby

Posted by: rg at May 5, 2010 1:33 PM

@az re: Ji Yeon

1. They have already clarified that it was either Jin or Sun.

2. That is completely illogical. Why would a 3 year old child be the
candidate?

Forest.

Trees.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 5, 2010 1:43 PM

If Jack had discovered the C4 even a couple of minutes earlier (entirely plausible), they wouldn't have died on the sub either, so that was hardly a foolproof plan, or even better than if they'd taken the plane.

I also felt Sayid was already dead - along with Claire. Second deaths don't much affect me. I was absolutely torn up by Charlie's death and even Shannon. Last night I was pissed, but I shed not one tear. It felt dirty to me - that's all.

Posted by: Cindy at May 5, 2010 1:47 PM

mrs. julien- i didn't mean that she was THE candidate. simply that she may be, contrary to what the island folk seem to believe, A candidate.

so perhaps MIB's attempts to use her as a pawn will fail because he's not aware that he actually can't kill her.

maybe jacob's faith was his second to last line of defense. it would be kind of cool, in light of all the kate hate (which i personally have never understood).

(as i mentioned last week, i tend to write out thoughts before i've fully formulated them!)

and oh yeah... when shannon died right after sayid confessed his lovee? golly, that was heartbreaking.

Posted by: stopthemadness at May 5, 2010 1:55 PM

@stop the madness re: kate has got to be a bigger player than everyone
assumes she is...

Kate is a huge player. She's is Jack's last tie to the world. In surrendering
his chance to be with her, he would be using his free will to surrender
to his destiny.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 5, 2010 1:55 PM

i like that. a lot.

Posted by: stopthemadness at May 5, 2010 1:59 PM

I never got the Kate hate either. Everyone is pretty messed up and I
didn't understand why so much scorn was heaped upon her.

But why Kate? What about her makes her a good choice? She may
have been A candidate (as were many others), but clearly something
has happened to eliminate her as THE candidate and THE candidate
is all that matters now. I think Locke is just not allowed to kill any
candidate, currently viable or not.

I suspect everyone, present company included, is overthinking
a lot of this.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 5, 2010 2:03 PM

The way I see it, the creators of this show are either going to blow minds with some truly amazing storytelling or they're going to disappoint everyone in a big, big way. This season has me torn. On one hand, the episodes themselves are as well-done and entertaining as ever, but on the other hand this entire season has been sort of maddening when viewed as part of the "big picture".

Sayid's death was at least very much in line with previous "major" deaths like Charlie & Boone, in that he was making a noble sacrifice for the benefit of others. However, it makes me wonder what was so "evil" about Sayid this season in the first place. Other than appearing detached and speaking in a different accent I really didn't see him behaving in a way that was much different than he had in the past. The way his story played out makes the temple scenes early in the season appear meaningless.

While Sun & Jin's death was rather sad, it kind of felt as if they were simply being "disposed of" and, again, it made their entire season 6 storyline seem meaningless. I still don't get the whole "Sun can't speak English anymore" subplot unless it was merely a way to give her character something to do.

I like the Lapidus character a lot, but if he's dead too it really makes you wonder why he was even kept around in the first place. I find the whole idea of needing him to fly the Ajira plane to be ludicrous. First of all, we know that you can't just "leave" the island, you need the correct bearings and without them it won't work and you may die. Second, if they did manage to get airborne and fly "home" what on earth are they going to say when they land? How would they possibly explain what happened to everyone else on that flight...especially given the fact that some of the passengers were also on another flight that disappeared under bizarre circumstances? Wildly implausible and completely at odds with the already-established mythology of the show.

I'm not really too thrilled with the way this final season has evolved into the "Jacob vs. MIB" show. Until proven otherwise it seems to me to so far just be a gimmicky way to reach the end-game and I don't yet understand how and why Jacob & MIB relate to the previously established mythology. I'm waiting for that "a-HA!" moment of realization that ties some of these threads together...patiently waiting...but here we are, 14 episodes in and we're still watching shoot-outs and treks through the jungle and yeah, it's been a bit frustrating. Having huge show mysteries (Christian, whispers, smoke monster) supposedly "solved" via bits of throwaway dialog isn't really filling me with confidence or providing much in the way of satisfaction, either. I gave up on expecting answers for "everything" but simply claiming that, for example, the whispers are just "trapped souls stuck on the island" is a very, very weak explanation that really doesn't make any sense.

The sideways stories trouble me too, mainly because if the sideways reality proves to be the "real" reality, it renders five seasons of character back-stories irrelevant. That would be a shame.

But, I'm hanging in to the bitter end and holding out hope that these writers are going to deliver in a way that brings this all into some kind of focus. Next week's episode appears to be devoted to explaining the back story behind Jacob/MIB and much of the island mythology itself and perhaps it'll go a long way towards making this season and the show as a whole make some kind of sense.

Posted by: Dr Remulak at May 5, 2010 2:06 PM

Locke cannot die, I know, but I was imagining some sort of sonic obliteration trap or energy blast from Desmond. I know a lot of stuff can happen in a LOST hour, so I am including some of my far-fetched theories. I too believe that as good and evil cannot be destroyed, rarely does it exist in form. I don't jive with the Jacob is good and MIB is evil trope/archetype, and I don't think that we can see LOST not giving Terry O'Quinn a death scene.

I think that Claire and Kate will be used in bargaining for Jack to make some sort of decision, Widmore and Desmond swooping in as the deus ex, and Jack making the final decision leading into some ambiguous ending.

I know it is a minority opinion, I've never really cared for the 1st season of LOST. 2, 3, and 4 are amazing. Season 5 is 5 star spectacular, but I don't think that this whole season or any season after that will be all bullshit no matter what we are to make of the LAX timeline or the fact that much of the show was made up as it went along. More than likely, it'll be a quick wrap up but this show will blow away if they actually make the connection any at all plausible. I don't even care about Walt's specialness and think that was rationalized as metaphorical. I don't think we'll ever get an answer to Walt though I didn't think we'd see Michael talking to Hugo either. Plus, that kid's gone through puberty by now. Mr. Eko isn't gonna like Hawaii all of a sudden.

The same way I think Terry O'Quinn can smell an Emmy, the alt timeline is a populist move to give our LOSTIES a happy ending for what will be an anticlimactic if not tragedian end.

The game only ends once, but that could also mean that whomever takes the Jacob mantle, i.e. Jack, makes the decision not to take the mantle. Because believe me, Jack is not done making dumbass decisions. I hope to Smokie that the ghost of old Jacob explains to him that he has to pick a new Smokie, that it isn't done with the kid with the older Jacob's voiceover, and that if someone must be the new monster, either Jack chooses "No" or selects Linus as his fellow island inmate.

man, these comments are blowing up. I am going to force myself to stay away for the rest of the day to force some productivity, but I'll come back to read later. Cheers.

Posted by: Jackseppelin at May 5, 2010 2:18 PM

@Dr. Remulak

1. And this hasn’t been amazing storytelling? It is coming together
beautifully and is starting to feel like, big picture, it could not
have been otherwise?

2. It wasn’t that Sayid was acting evil, it was that he was dead inside
minion and had no connection to the world. Sayid's story was about
free will and who you really are. He chose to follow Locke. He
changed his mind after talking to Desmond.

3. Coming to a logical conclusion consistent with the themes of Sun and
Jin’s characters is not meaningless.

4. Forest. Trees.

5. Everything on the show has mirrored the Jacob/MIB mythological
structure. Why would it change now? They have stripped away the layers
to get to the core of things.

6.I can’t see how the sideways world will be the only reality.
But it might be one of them, but for whom?

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 5, 2010 2:27 PM

What about Bernard's weirdness? When he wrote down the name, Jack asked him if he could remember such detail three years later, and Bernard responded with, "Of course I can, Jack." It felt very weird to me. Almost like he had been awakened and was not surprised by any of this.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at May 5, 2010 2:30 PM

And something else that poked my brain a bit: when talking about dispatching MIB, Sawyer said, "Just get him in the water, I will take care of the rest."

.......um, then what? What was your plan, Sawyer? Am I missing something obvious?

Posted by: Patty O'Green at May 5, 2010 2:39 PM

Patty, I also thought Bernard must have been somehow awakened to the island reality, and that he knew he had a role to play in helping the others get there, too. I love Bernard.

Posted by: Kolby at May 5, 2010 2:43 PM

I thought Bernard saying "of course I remember" was a sly wink to
all of those movie and TV cliches where people have crucial information
at their fingertips or in a convenient scrapbook. Like when Sawyer
said, "Of course not, because that would be ridiculous" to Locke.

Alternatively, it must have been a pretty horrendous accident and
perhaps that was why he remembered.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 5, 2010 2:43 PM

Well said Dr Remulak.

Whatever the big reveal is going to be, somewhere along the line of this season, something has been lost. If Claire and Sayid were infected with some kind of darkness, it seems to be the sort that comes and goes - and in the end has mostly gone. Claire was so tough when we first saw her "changed", and now she's practically a pussycat.

I've always maintained that the important story must be fairly simple, as it was known from the beginning. Over time, all the little bits and details and extras just added to our journey, we shouldn't have been completely distracted by them. This last season, it was easy to see what was filler, just stringing us along until we got to important stuff. I'm sure next week's episode is going to fill in a fair amount of blanks. But to think that so much of it was extraneous and dilly-dallying along the trail - enjoyable as some of it was - I'd feel a bit cheated. I need for the early seasons of backstory to have meaning and significance, not just be wiped away. When Charlie died, we truly cared and it truly meant something, because we'd fallen in love with him. With Sayid's uncertain personality since he died, and Claire's, and the destruction of Sun's character, something has been...well, lost. I really want to believe that whatever the main arc is, we will be left fulfilled by it, but at this point, I'm not as hopeful as I was a couple of weeks ago.

Posted by: Cindy at May 5, 2010 2:45 PM

Am I the only one whose internal WTF meter clocks every time they say “we get on the plane and fly away!" Even Lapidus says it!

Huh? How the fuck are they going to turn that fucker around, let alone restart the engines and to say nothing of the fact that the thing has been sitting maintenance free in the jungle for an unspecified length of time.

Why would anybody get onboard a plan so thoroughly marinated in stupid? Hey! The indestructible animated corpse of John Locke says it’s so, so it must be!

When the internal logic keeps bending into ever prettier Escher-like shapes it doesn’t bode well. I fear a repeat of angels plastered all over the denoument. Gah! I hated it then, I will hate it even more when it happens in just a couple weeks.

I’m with one of the commenters above - it’s hard to feel attached to anything that makes so little sense. Yes - brilliant acting. Wow - incredible back stories and subtext. The best villain in all of television history - a mealy mouthed, doughy, little weiner who operates simply through lies, cunning and manipulation.

But then when almost everything the characters do seems devoid of any internal logic… when the shows writers push themselves over the event horizon of dumb and into a black hole of incomprehensibility… why should I care?

Want a big fucking spoiler? Smocke ain’t gonna make it off the island! Nope - concentrated, raw evil is going to stay trapped on the island and keep the rest of the multi-verse as clean, nice and happy as it always was. Jesus tap-dancing Christ was this show written by Mormons? Scientologists? Sound and fucking fury.

Screw you Lost - you used to be cool.

But you know what? Like the big sucker that I am… because this show was so awesome for so long, I keep coming back. Every week it’s another sucker punch to the pants yabbies and “thank you sir, may I have another”.

I am my own last shred of hope for a satisfying conclusion. Pray for Mojo.

Posted by: hM at May 5, 2010 2:56 PM

Yeah, my WTF-meter was over in the red in the scene when everybody was preparing to attack the sub. Why would they agree to attack the sub? Especially when we saw Fake Locke just minutes before go all super ninja on the red shirts at the Ajira plane. Someone should have told Fake Locke to use his special Smokey powers on the guys on the sub.

Posted by: Ojo Verde at May 5, 2010 3:05 PM

I love how angry people get over this show.

Posted by: Kolby at May 5, 2010 3:07 PM

Hey man, even Luke Skywalker didn't destroy the dark side. He just
brought balance to the Force.

Of COURSE Locke won't get off the island. Did you want evil to win
and repudiate millenia of mythology? They don't have time for that.

What I want to know is how Jack becomes the new Jacob.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 5, 2010 3:10 PM

Yeah! What hM said!

Posted by: Cindy at May 5, 2010 3:11 PM

stopthemadness, thank you for joining the Vincent Support Group. We aim to find out what has become of our amazing canine friend, and to show others that it is he, Vincent, who is the true protector of Craphole Island.

And, the beauty of Lost is, even when you're dead, you've still got a gig.

Posted by: dammitjanet at May 5, 2010 3:12 PM

Who else wanted Jack to give Sawyer mouth-to-mouth? It would have ruined one of the most gut-wrenching scenes in the series, but damn it would have been funny.

Posted by: logar at May 5, 2010 3:18 PM

Am I the only one who exclaimed, "A bomb with a timer? Just shoot it out through the torpedo tube!!" I KNOW I've seen that solution on a few TV shows.

Do Jack's tattoos seem to expand/contract in various episodes? In the ep two weeks ago he gestured with his left arm and we saw those stars 'n stuff down to his elbow. But in the ep last night I don't recall seeing tats at all.

Sounds like Frank may have summed up the show's wrapup with his very last lines (paraphrasing here) "Aww...hell!"

Posted by: Obst N. Gemuse at May 5, 2010 3:18 PM

I also love how people want this show to make sense. It's fucking LOST. It stopped making sense in part one of the pilot when we first heard the smoke monster smashing through the palms. The show is well-written, still character-driven (anyone who tells me Jack hasn't grown over the course of this season is buh-lind), and still manages to take me to the edge of my seat. And I was fucking spoiled last night! This is great television. No, they aren't going to always give us what they want, but they know what they're doing, and goddamn if I'm not enjoying the ride.

I am going to be a blubbering mess on the 23rd.

Posted by: Kolby at May 5, 2010 3:20 PM

But why Kate? What about her makes her a good choice? She may have been A candidate (as were many others), but clearly something has happened to eliminate her as THE candidate and THE candidate
is all that matters now.

why NOT kate? she's no better or worse a choice than sawyer. if wtflocke or the island can't kill the candidates... they are required to somehow kill themselves, then she may be important in these last few episodes to the extent everyone seems to think she can so easily be disposed when actually she can't.

aren't their supposed to have been six candidates? don't we only know who 5 of them are?

Posted by: stopthemadness at May 5, 2010 3:21 PM

*what WE want

Posted by: Kolby at May 5, 2010 3:21 PM

@Kolby

I can't remember the last time I was this impassioned about fiction!

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 5, 2010 3:22 PM

stopthemadness: Jack, Sawyer, Sayid, Hurley, Jin or Sun, Locke...right? Those were the six.

Posted by: Kolby at May 5, 2010 3:23 PM

I am going to be a blubbering mess on the 23rd.

Oh yes, our Jears shall be heard world round. I'm amazed Kleenex hasn't bought up the commercial real estate yet.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at May 5, 2010 3:24 PM

i agree entirely, kolby.

i have never understood the kate and jack hate. even when they were being boneheads in the first season. as far as kate's character, she is one of two bad ass chicks on that island. sun was sitting around gardening, kate was always running off into the jungle getting shit done, albeit for her own ulterior motives sometimes, but i always liked her for that.

i think i had innate love for jack based on my circa 90s love of party of five. sure, arguably jack was being a bonehead in the first season or two, but when you think back, was he really supposed to just hop on board with smoke monsters, and polar bears, and we have to push the button and the island has a purpose for us?

no way. that was locke's territory simply because he couldn't walk and then the plane crashed, and then he could walk. nothing until the past two seasons had even happened to make jack question whether or not the island had a purpose for him. i mean, it's like "hey jack, don't leave the island! you're supposed to be here!" "the fuck i am... i want to go back home and be a doctor."

he is completely changed now. he's been lockefied.

Posted by: stopthemadness at May 5, 2010 3:28 PM

Plus he's super hot!

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 5, 2010 3:30 PM

kolby, but didn't ilana already know that locke was dead? why would she have thought he was a candidate?

also, kate's name wasn't crossed out at the lighthouse, right?

i don't know why i'm on a kate bandwagon all of a sudden.

and thanks, dammitjanet! proud to be a member.

KATE/VINCENT 2012.

Posted by: stopthemadness at May 5, 2010 3:31 PM

I just finished watching this. I was fine with the Jin/Sun thing (I was a big fan of their story, but it's true, it's been dragged out too much) until Hurley lost it, and then I did a proper lip tremble cry.

Where is Miles? Is he still with Widmore?

I would like someone to tell Claire that he mother is raising Aaron. You know, that mother she thought she had basically left brain dead and in a coma. Don't you think that'd be a nice thing for her to learn, and maybe stop her being so damn crazy?

And now I will read the many many comments.

Posted by: Carrie (aka Teabelly) at May 5, 2010 3:34 PM

You might want to have a stiff drink first. We are all hepped up today.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 5, 2010 3:38 PM

The turning point for Sayid was when he was about to kill Desmond per MIB's orders & Desmond asked Sayid how he was going to explain to the love of his life, Nadia what he did in order to resurrect her & how she would feel about his answer. He knew he'd lose her all over again.

I'm kinda hoping the woman he loved was Shannon. Just to make it a wee bit more interesting. And because he and Nadia weren't together in the alternative timeline. I don't know whether that's the case, or if we'll ever know, of course.

Posted by: Carrie (aka Teabelly) at May 5, 2010 3:48 PM

Well, I'll be pretty shocked if there is an as yet unnamed candidate we're supposed to be finding out about soon...THAT would be ridiculous.

Posted by: Kolby at May 5, 2010 3:52 PM

I think the consensus here is that Jack is going to be the new Jacob. And, I think that there is a lot of hope that Hurley is going to be the new Richard. But after last night's episode, I suddenly got the feeling that Kate might end up being the new Richard. I think that Jack and Kate were exchanging a few glances. If she's no longer a candidate, then maybe Jack (as the new Jacob) will give her never-ending life.

Posted by: Ojo Verde at May 5, 2010 4:01 PM

The sixth candidate is Kara Thrace!

Posted by: Jackseppelin at May 5, 2010 4:02 PM

Ok, I'll admit... Kate has annoyed me less this season because for once she's doing something for someone else (Claire) and not just for her own selfish gains.

My main problem is just with who she is. She's a manslinger. I hate the Jack/Kate/Sawyer love triangle. What do they see in this chick other than pretty hair? She's the definition of daddy issues and one of the most morally bankrupt characters on the series.

Look, I just hate her because I HAVE to hate her. I mean, fuck, both Jack AND Sawyer blew off Juliet for this bitch (and you better trust that if Juliet hadn't died Sawyer would have chosen Kate)...does she have two vaginas or something I'm not aware of? Juliet was better and waaaaay more bad ass than Kate. My allegiance was to Juliet and always be.

So that's my Kate rant. And yes, it is kind of sad how angry a fictional character can make me.

Posted by: citizen_cris at May 5, 2010 4:10 PM

So, they're rebroadcasting the Pilot on May 22nd. Does anyone else think it might be because they A)want us to connect the dots and see that they've known where this whole thing was going all along, or, B)want to remind us of the pretty amazing parallels between this season and the first? Or is it both?

Has anyone else noticed the parallels?

Posted by: Kolby at May 5, 2010 4:14 PM

Of course they want us to see that they've had the story planned all along. There are so many naysayers, even though they've maintained that they had the story from day one. I believe them, but it will still be cool as shit to watch the pilot again and connect dots.

Parallels and reversals, and I wonder if that will play out between Jacob and MIB.

Also, I have liked both Jack and Kate throughout. And even though Sawyer and Juliet were cute together, I never liked Juliet. So there.

Posted by: Cindy at May 5, 2010 4:18 PM

Kolby, you're awesome, as always. That's what I think too. Just enjoy the rise, cause it's worth it. When this show will end, I'm going to be sad, like when the Sopranos, The Wire, BSG, Veronica Mars, Friends or Firefly ended. I'll get choked up. Honestly, there could be tears.

If you're a mess on the 23rd, I may take advantage of the situation to lure you into my den, promising you the private projection of an alternative ending.

Posted by: rg at May 5, 2010 4:18 PM

I had more things to add, but this thread has now officially covered all my LOST thoughts.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at May 5, 2010 4:26 PM

*the riDe. fuck, my whole effect failed miserably.

Posted by: rg at May 5, 2010 4:26 PM

I think we've used up all the words too.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 5, 2010 4:35 PM

I don't know how to do the html quote thingy properly, so i'm just going old-school.

"On the issue of which Kwon was the candidate? I believe it was neither Jin or Sun but instead their child. Ji-Yeon KWON."

I'm with Chapps on this one. I think Sun and Jin had to die, because Jacob's real successor is Ji-Yeon, and everyone else's purpose was to get/keep the Kwons together and protect her. Or some such nonsense.

Posted by: cydeleida at May 5, 2010 4:42 PM

That's it. I'm done for the day. Peace.

Posted by: Kolby at May 5, 2010 4:44 PM

I never liked Juliet. So there.
Cindy, you're dead to me. That is all.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at May 5, 2010 4:50 PM

Well, Hurley better watch his ass, that's all I have to say. Once he kicks it, the Island can finally be the cracker paradise that it apparently wants to be.

Oh, wait, Richard is from Spain isn't he? I guess he might be next.

Posted by: SJ at May 5, 2010 5:01 PM

If Ji Yeon is either "a" or "the" candidate, I will eat my hat and post it as a video for all Pajibans to see. That would be some mighty weak sauce.

Obviously, I would be adding copious amounts of sauce to the hat.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at May 5, 2010 5:11 PM

Hey, I enjoy the day-after-the-episode online commentary almost as much as the actual show itself. Few other shows are (or ever have been) capable of inspiring so much thought and emotion. "Lost" is like an acid trip: you feel as if you're right on the cusp of having it ALL figured out for one fleeting moment, then it all recedes away ('til next time).

@hM: LOL, the first time the plane was suggested as an escape route I face-palmed. I mean even if you overlook the fact that getting the thing turned around and airborne would be pretty unlikely, there's also the fact that you CAN'T just "leave the island" and everyone, especially Frank, knows this. Remember the difficulties he ran into while piloting the chopper? If you could just leave, Desmond's boat would have sufficed quite nicely. And even if they did manage to fly away, did anyone consider what they'd do next? Another big lie like the Oceanic 6? More likely than not that they'd end up in some sort of mental facility and/or prison after bringing a missing airliner back with THAT preposterous tale to explain it all away. Especially considering that for some of the passengers it'd be their second mysterious plane crash, lol.

My guess for the final scenes: On the island, the final survivor Jack pulls a big cork out of the ground as Widmore & MIB scream “noooo”. The island sinks to the bottom of the sea and everyone dies.

Meanwhile in sideways reality, a crazed, drunken Lapidus is at the helm of a large airplane diving directly towards Jack’s hospital where all of our favorite surviving Losties happen to be gathered for one reason or another. Jack looks out the window, sees the plane headed right towards him and says “it’s our destiny”. The plane hits the building, boom, fade to black.

Obviously, I’m half-kidding, of course. Honestly, although it feels as if it’s sort of coming together a bit, I have absolutely no idea what’s coming and I’m avoiding all spoilers from here on out.

Posted by: Dr Remulak at May 5, 2010 5:56 PM

I never liked Juliet. So there.
Cindy, you're dead to me. That is all.

i'm dead to you too, patty. :(

I COULDN'T FUCKING STAND JULIET.

i don't know why i'm yelling. it's not necessary. it's just that she was so fucking smirky about everything. and the actress who played her had some jacked up plastic surgery.

also, whoever said kara thrace is the sixth candidate is my favorite.

Posted by: stopthemadness at May 5, 2010 6:01 PM

LOST,

You were much better this week (although it would have rocked harder if facebook assholes hadn't told me every story beat before I actually saw the episode. Excuuuuuuse me, social networking...). Thank you for that.

I do have to say that I loved Sun and Jin, and I hate that they're dead, but I'm glad that they got to have a real good actressin' death (cause I have a heart. And no they didn't just blow off their daughter; they were toast regardless and knew it).

As for Sayid, I can live with that. It was a nice little moment that probably would have perplexed or struck or something me more if not for aforementioned facebook suck.

As for Kate:
You have got to quit fucking with me. Do you understand? What part of "kill her for real and don't fake me out on it seriously just pull the trigger or I will punch you in the dick" don't you understand?

And thank you for not out and out showing that Lapidus died, because now I can pretend that on May 23rd he will rise from the depths like Neptune by Burt Reynolds, chest hair slick against his chest and trident in hand to tri-smite a fucker.

Fly an airplane my ass.

Posted by: coryo at May 5, 2010 6:06 PM

Oh yeah, and way to rock Hurley. His tears mattered, man.

Posted by: coryo at May 5, 2010 6:08 PM

First of all, nobody cares about that c*nt Walt
Deal with it

One of the best episodes of LOST overall and a good setup for the finale (next week seems to be all MIB/Jacob back story again)

Posted by: Christian at May 5, 2010 6:14 PM

I didn't trust Juliet until she was sent back in time, and I hated her until "The Incident" (I think), when you could see how she had helped Sawyer become a good man, by being a good woman. Kate was always a silly (occasionally badass) girl. Then Juliet blew most of my goodwill to hell when she changed her mind three times in less than an hour. "We have to get off this island. We have to go back and stop Jack. No, don't hurt Jack, we have to help him!" etc.

For all you Ji Yeon candidaters out there(of which I am not one), think about this: if neither Sun nor Jin were candidates, and Sayid was no longer a candidate, then MIB has still not been able to kill, or cause the death of, a candidate.

Posted by: Christina at May 5, 2010 7:50 PM

It seems I do have something else to say.

Initially I thought escape on the plane was a pretty ridiculous plan too. But to play devil's advocate and give the show the benefit of the doubt, they wouldn't just be escaping on the plane using standard human capabilities and machinery. They were escaping on the plane with the help of what would seem to be an extremely powerful supernatural being. The sub was always a planned solo human mission; the plane was with the help of the MIB, who might have some knowledge of navigating the island's wacky time-space "moat," not to mention perhaps the ability to turn into black smoke and give the plane an extra push in liftoff. Most of this crew was essentially magicked back onto the Island; it's not too much of a stretch to think that the inverse might be possible if the Island or whatever supernatural forces are in charge absolutely wanted it.

It is still an extreme strain to credibility, but perhaps slightly less so with that in mind.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at May 5, 2010 7:52 PM

Evs, . I couldn't stand Elizabeth Mitchell's acting, Juliet's smugness and smirking and going after MY men. Frak her.

Posted by: Cindy at May 5, 2010 7:53 PM

I know everyone is complaining about Jin staying with Sun, but I believe he had no choice. Throughout the entire series Jin was portrayed as proud and traditional, and I think he's only choice was to stay and try to save his wife until his last breath. Living a life knowing that he left his wife to die (even tho he was unable to help) would have been hell for him.

Posted by: yani at May 5, 2010 9:26 PM

On the issue of which Kwon was the candidate? I believe it was neither Jin or Sun but instead their child. Ji-Yeon KWON.
Yea....let that sink it.

A super Kwon baby? sort of how Luke was the chosen one, not his father? Yeah I'll go with that.

Posted by: yani at May 5, 2010 9:52 PM

I had a crap day at work and am only just now catching up. I probably shouldn't even bother commenting since no one will probably ready this far down, but whatever. I love how feisty everyone is getting, by the way.

1. I really liked the pacing of this episode. It felt like I was on a rocket ship that was never going to stop. We were only half way through and I felt like we should have been at the end of the episode (which made me happy that it wasn't yet ending).

2. I was stunned by Sayid's death. I know many of you felt like he was already "gone" but I was holding out hope that we'd see a transformation back to the Sayid I loved from previous seasons. Yes, there was redemption in his final act but it was so damn fast I didn't feel like I got to say good bye.

3. Yeah, yeah, yeah - Jin couldn't have made it to the surface so he might as well have stayed with Sun but the fact that we didn't even see a struggle from either of them about whether he should try to leave and go be with Ji-Yeon was crap. I guess I can see Jin's lack of connectedness to her since he never met her but you'd think Sun might have pleaded with him to go with Jack and share his oxygen tank to go take care of her. I guess their love story was the focus of their characters, not their kid. But it still pisses me off as it feels inauthentic to how anyone parent with a soul would behave. (I have a feeling Cindy will agree with me on this.)

4. I'm going to miss Lapidus, too. Smirky smile, funny one-liners, chest hair and all.

5. I am also a Kate and Jack fan so I never really got the hate for them either. Yes, their characters can be annoying and self-centered at times but we've seen them grow (especially Jack). Didn't care so much for Juliet until she was with Sawyer; then I dug her a lot more.

6. I'm very curious about what is going to happen with Ben. He was such an influential and captivating character for such a long time he better not be marginalized in the big picture or I'll be pissed. I like the idea of him becoming Smokey but I don't see that happening.

7. For all of you who keep pulling for Ji-Yeon to be the Kwon candidate, I have three words for you: Give. It. Up. It's a preposterous idea.

8. Last thing I'm going to say, if the alt timeline turns out to be the "real" timeline I'm going to be furious. Like Cindy and Dr. Remulak said, if all the backstory and character relationships were obliterated by this new reality, I think I would hold it against the show forever.

Posted by: prairiegirl at May 5, 2010 11:33 PM

Just wanted to answer to the people wondering where Vincent is-I'm pretty sure he's living peacefully on the island with Bernard and Rose, right?

Posted by: shana horowitz at May 5, 2010 11:41 PM

is anybody curious if Sayid is really dead...they didn't show his body...maybe he will be back. This damn show keeps going on crazy tangents and who really knows what to expect?

Posted by: Curious at May 5, 2010 11:42 PM

OK, I HATE it when people comment and they haven't read all the comments and then they repeat things that were said and in my head I scream, "IF YOU HAD READ ALL THE COMMENTS YOU WOULDN'T BE MAKING AN ASS OF YOURSELF RIGHT NOW." But I'm about to make an ass of myself because I've only read, oh, 7/9ths of the comments. I hate being away from my computer on PajibaLost days-it puts me terribly behind the discussion and I can't bear not being in the discussion. So, this is what I have to say:

1) Mrs. Julien, you are a genius. Of COURSE that is why the writers made Kate a non-candidate, I LURV your theory. In addition, this conflict will prove why Sawyer CANNOT replace Jacob, he would never be willing to sacrifice Kate. I think he's going to kill himself saving her which will piss some people off-but don't worry, there's always sideways coffee dates to look forward to.

2) Is there a reason Sideways Locke is a (somewhat shitty) pilot? Is that going to come into play?

3) Kolby, are you implying that the C4 was put there by Ben, Richard and Miles (the Law Offices of Linus, Alpert and Straume, for all your 'splody needs)? CAUSE THAT'S TOTALLY WHAT I THOUGHT.

4) I hope we don't need Sideways Locke's shitty piloting skills because FRANK LAPIDUS IS ALIVE, EVERYBODY. HE HAS TO BE.

5) Cindy, mad word on not caring about the Kwons. SO much word.

6) Patty, you're still my lobster. All these rando Pajiba peeps facebook friended me the other day. Are you on facebook? Why aren't we friends?

7) rg, your occasional (and very minor) problems with the english language remind me of what a smexy French man you are.

Posted by: coveredinbees at May 6, 2010 12:44 AM

ARRRRRRRRRRGH NO ONE IS AWAKE! I hate my time zone.

Posted by: coveredinbees at May 6, 2010 1:39 AM

You don't tell a man who has you at the bottom of a well that he's never gonna see his dead boo again. You let him realize that himself. I agree that the Why of Sayid's departure from Camp Smokie is perplexing beyond Claire's, I thought that the reason to spare Desmond was easy: He realized Smokie was lying to him.

Dead is dead.

And if it ain't, who wants to make out with the Smokie version of your dreamgirl, anyway?

I am really looking forward to seeing why there are alternate timelines in the first place. I would love to be wrong. I know for certain that Cuse and Lindlehof didn't have the story fleshed out by the time Season 2 extras and commentary were put on the dvds. I think that was just something they were pushed into saying at Comic-con, like, last year. I think there are many numerous examples that point to the rampantly improvised plotting in LOST. I will buy and damn well expect that they knew why they were going to whet our addled brain-domes with that picture of the island underwater at the beginning of the season.

Like hM and Remulak said, great mysteries solved by a few lines of dialogue (in this case, Mrs. Eloise Widmore, ghostie Jacob, and possibly a relevated Jack) are going to suck the proverbial Sobek teat. (Do anthro crocs have teats?) We shall see.

Posted by: Jackseppelin at May 6, 2010 1:46 AM

Pardon for the lateness, but I just watched the episode and have a thought: I *still* think that Candidate Kwon means Ji-Yeon. This actually works in Jacob’s favor now. Since Flocke needs all the Candidates to die in order for him to leave the island, he can kill all the Candidates on the island and still not be able to leave, since Ji-Yeon is back home.

Posted by: Scully at May 6, 2010 8:29 AM

Sayid sacrificed himself because he chose to. Same way that he chose to spare Desmond's life. Doesn't matter how deep of a "spell" MIB has on Claire or Sayid or any of them, they still have free will. Ultimately, their actions are their choice. It is the ongoing theme on LOST and it obviously is all going to end with a choice too. How the alt-timeline fits in I'm still not sure. But I think it's clear the passengers that landed on FLT 815 realize something is seriously weird in their world and they all seem to be "waking up" at the same time. It will have a tie in to the island timeline. Desmond's conversation with Eleanor Farraday (Widmore) showed that pretty clearly.

I get caught up on on-screen drama pretty easily but Sun and Jin's death left me a bit cold for the same reason as everyone else. I wondered about their daughter and why Sun didn't bring that up to Jin to get him to save himself. Jin was the candidate, not Sun. Jin survived the tanker explosion which should have killed him so by deduction he was one of the final 6. Speaking of, his "death" on the tanker was FAR more emotionally devastating than both dying in the sub. When Sun absolutely loses her shit when the tanker exploded I could barely breathe. Still one of the best scenes in the show's history.

That said, when Hurley lost it I admit I shed a couple tears. And I yelped when Kate was shot. What can I say, I like Kate. She's a survivor and if they make it off alive I think her and Jack will be together. There was something about the way she reacted to Jack on the beach and hugging him that struck me that she was ready to love him. Which in true LOST fashion completely signs her death warrant but still.

Posted by: TylerDFC at May 6, 2010 8:42 AM

@jackseppelin re: Dead is dead.

That is so beautiful in its simplicity. I was thinking that Desmond would have made some impassioned plea, but all he would have to do is point out to Sayid that he's dead inside, dead is dead and would he want Nadia to come back in that state.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 6, 2010 9:08 AM

And now so one can actually read it because everyone is entitled
to my opinion:

@jackseppelin re: Dead is dead.

That is so beautiful in its simplicity. I was thinking that Desmond
would have made some impassioned plea, but all he would have to do
is point out to Sayid that he's dead inside, dead is dead and would he
want Nadia to come back in that state.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 6, 2010 9:09 AM

@TylerDFC

So much yes to what you said.

Yes on the choice.

Yes on Sun and Jin's death. I thought, "Oh my God, they are going to
kill Sun and Jin," they are getting hardcore. Every true epic needs
collateral damage.

Yes, I thought Kate launching herself at Jack on the beach was
interesting too. Jack is almost completely removed from his ties to the
world AND separated himself from his friends to cry. The Hero must be alone.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 6, 2010 9:18 AM

Sun and Jin made me cry, likely because exams have me a little stressed and emotional anyway.

I don't think Jack or Hugo are going to replace Jacob/Richard. I think the "candidates" are there to kill MIB, and when they do, the island will have served it's purpose and sink (as we saw in a previous clip). After that happens they will go back to the LA timeline, and that will be that.

Posted by: nicole at May 6, 2010 9:44 AM

...if all the backstory and character relationships were obliterated by this new reality, I think I would hold it against the show forever.

This is exactly why all the characters are experiencing bleed-through between the two realities. It's my opinion that the island reality will somehow cease to exist, and the sideways reality will continue, with each character regaining the memories of their experiences on the island and the lives they lived before the initial crash of 815. If that's how it goes down, I will be totally satisfied.

And here are my two cents on the whole Kate situation: Yes, she struggled with her feelings for two men. Two very, very different men. I've always felt the cause of the struggle laid not with her selfishness, but instead with the love she felt for both of them. Sawyer is like her, in him she sees herself, both the good and the bad, and it probably scares the shit out of her. In Jack she sees the type of man she should be with - solid, steady, and with a real future. The kind of guy you'd want to settle down with. So it was a choice between what is and what could be. And that's a difficult choice.

And I think they love her for the same reasons - Sawyer sees his match, his other half, Jack sees someone he can "fix" and build something with. Of course, this is my opinion, but it's how I've always viewed the triangle.

By the way, Juliet also had trouble choosing between the two. Maybe for the same reasons, but in reverse...if you know what I'm saying.

And, once again, they explained in the enhanced version of Ab Aeterno that the Kwon candidate was indeed either Jin or Sun. I will join Darth in the eating of the saucy hat if it turns out differently.

Posted by: Kolby at May 6, 2010 9:45 AM

I agree completely on the Kate/Sawyer/Jack relationships, Kolby (!!!) Anyway, who wouldn't get a piece of both of them if she could? And people can love more than one person at a time.

I, however, will not be satisfied with the sideways life. Good day!

Posted by: Cindy at May 6, 2010 9:54 AM

Seems like all you Ji-Yeon people missed it up top, so I'll repeat it. Ab Eterno's enhanced episode said the candidate was Sun or Jin. No mention of baby Kwon.

The fill rate of the sub was... displeasing.

Posted by: Stew at May 6, 2010 10:09 AM

Kolby -

Of course, when Kate settled down with Jack he turned out to be an
addicted mess. She can't win.

I like your theory about the bleed through lives too. It makes sense that
some people will move on through one reality and the rest through
another to me though. Not one or the other.

Of course, despite all my stridency I would love to be wrong
because the only thing more fun than solving the puzzle would be
for the creators to have another twist up their sleeves.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 6, 2010 10:12 AM

Thanks Stew. What the hell is an enhanced episode?

Posted by: Scully at May 6, 2010 11:04 AM

Enhanced episodes are re-runs, often shown the week after the original broadcast, that contain extra information typed at the bottom of the screen while the action plays over the top. For example, while an episode is playing, and, say, Ben comes onscreen, the information typed at the bottom might read, "This is Benjamin Linus, who came to the island as a child with his father, who worked for the Dharma Initiative. Ben later murdered his father during The Purge, and assumed the role of Leader of the Others." Or something like that.

Posted by: Kolby at May 6, 2010 11:57 AM

@Christian- I care about Walt. Seems like most of the folks here could care less about the characters of color (Michael died too you know) but damn, looks like Lost is doing a Heroes and just purging the colored folk. Good thing it's almost over. No, who am I kidding? GREAT show and I cried when Sun & Jin died but hearing Hurley just lose it really broke mt heart!

Posted by: Shazza at May 6, 2010 12:01 PM

*mY

Posted by: Shazza at May 6, 2010 12:01 PM

covered, I would love to be your Facebook friend! Lobsters forever! But how do I figure out who you is, boo?

I understand why people were skeptical about Juliet, but by the end I loved her. And I will always be Team Juliet when it comes to the badass ladies of Craphole Island.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at May 6, 2010 1:45 PM

Patty go to the Pajiba FB Discussions page and look for a "Who Are You?" discussion. It reveals Pajiba names with FB pages.

Posted by: Scully at May 6, 2010 1:51 PM

Well. I for one don't actually care WHICH Kwon, Sun or Jin, was the candidate, because they're both dead and therefore it's irrelevant. Also, I cried like a baby at their deaths, even though it was a little too late. (A friend and I had discussed it a few months ago, and decided that they were finally going to be reunited and then they would both be killed because of course they would, and I think I let myself think they weren't going to get killed since they didn't immediately, and then there was no real focus on them again.) Also, in discussing with another friend this morning (why yes, I do have more than one!), I was reminded that everyone in Korea thinks Jin is dead, and has thought so for years, since Sun had a funeral and a gravestone and everything. AND Jin has never met his daughter there, AND she'll be raised by Sun's mom, AND there was no guarantee that he'd make it anyway if he left her. And then Hurley's sobbing on the beach started me weeping all over again. And also, she gets to have both of her parents in the alt-line (Sun when pregs when she got shot in the belly, and then Jin told her the baby was fine, yes?), so YAY for alt-Ji-Yeon.

I think I've almost decided that Jack will be left on the island with Smockey, in the capacity of Jacob; Hurley will remain in the capacity of Richard; and Claire will remain in the capacity of Rousseau. Pseudo-Mr. vB has decided that EVERYONE in the original timeline has to die, in order for them all to live in the alt-line, and when I argued "no they don't" and "well what about stacked universe theories" he said "well that doesn't seem to be the way the show is going" and I said "oh. Good point" so yeah.

I liked the ep overall. Even though the whole thing with the sub killed me, and it was all Sawyer's stupid fault, 'cause if he had left the damn wires alone, the bomb wouldn't have done anything. Also, I think Kate and Sawyer will wander off and die somewhere. And I still think that Bernard and Rose are Adam and Eve, and wasn't Vincent living with them the last time we saw him?

Posted by: Anna von Beaversmack at May 6, 2010 1:54 PM

I don't get this love and desire to see characters who have completely disappeared from the story because THEY DON'T MATTER AT ALL. Like Walt (face it, he doesn't matter. He was just some weirdo kid with weird powers and he wasn't all that anyway) or Vincent (jeebus, I love dogs as much as the next person but COME ON) and Rose and Bernard. Never liked them anyway. Just...come on, we have three episodes left, they're not gonna waste them bringing back completely unnecessary characters. And if I'm wrong I will be completely pissed off, as nothing makes me more angry than time wasted on things that don't matter. I get that they're sentimental favorites but, come on.

I will never like Kate. She's a flip-flopper, going from man to man or to person to person depending on who she needed more that episode. She also did things without thinking and got people in deep shit trouble because of it. She never listened, she never thought ahead and I always felt that there was zero depth to her character, no matter how much they tried to make us think there was. The ONLY times she's been bearable has been when she was with Aaron, but that still didn't make up for all the crap the writers had put us through regarding her character. I might change my mind once I go back to the beginning, but so far I've wanted nothing more than for her to die and stop bugging the hell out of me.

*deep breath*

Jack just bugged me because he cried a lot and thought he was the boss of everybody. Never listened and always wanted to be in everything. I like him much better this season, because he's FINALLY learned that maybe he doesn't have all the answers.

Kate, though? Hasn't changed one bit in my eyes. She's still an annoying little brat who thinks she's more special than she already is.

OK I'm done with ranting.

Posted by: figgy at May 6, 2010 2:04 PM

Oh, and the Kwon baby is completely useless, too. So just...no. Give it up, people.

Posted by: figgy at May 6, 2010 2:05 PM

*than she really is, I mean. Kate makes me incoherent with annoyance.

Posted by: figgy at May 6, 2010 2:10 PM

Pajiba's Who's Who: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AvyMO-9k6e8kdEJ3UFZONXc4TTU1NWs3VzdERTV3SkE&hl=en

(Did that link work??)

Yeah every time someone mentions Ji Yeon I go, "ARRRGHHH not important!!!" But I may be completely wrong.

What I DO think is interesting is how far out of their way the writers have gone to disguise the MIB's "real" name. This makes me hope it's something cool like "Aaron" or. . ."Vincent."

Posted by: coveredinbees at May 6, 2010 2:41 PM

Can one add him/herself to the who's who?

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at May 6, 2010 4:59 PM

Sun & Jin together were the candidate. Jacob shook both of their hands at their wedding. they were meant to be together, in life and in death.

Posted by: xoxoxoe at May 6, 2010 5:28 PM

Yup yup yup Mrs. Julien. This is a total cheerocracy.

Posted by: coveredinbees at May 6, 2010 6:16 PM

Thanks a bunch, Scully and covered! I shall go and join forthwith!

And Kolby, thank you for such an eloquent response to Kate and their trinagle. It can be frustrating to watch, but when you dive in to character moitivation and psycology, you really can see her perspective.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at May 7, 2010 11:42 AM

One thing that has bothered me throughout this season (and probably the entire series): Every time they have to swim, they KEEP THEIR SHOES ON. Do you know how hard it is to swim with shoes on? You expect me to believe that they survived a submarine explosion/flooding and swam several hundred feet to the surface and then to shore, and just walked out of the ocean good as new? The same thing happened an episode or two ago when Sawyer et all strapped their rifles to their backs and swam to Hydra Island (hello? water + guns = no worky). The show is called LOST for fuck's sake... and nobody's ever lost a damn shoe?!

Posted by: The Other Julie at May 7, 2010 1:43 PM

@The Other Julie: Actually many modern guns and rifles will fire after being fully submerged, and a good number will even fire while *under* water, although their effectiveness when doing so is awful.

You have to clean the hell out of a gun when it's been under water, but other than that, nothing much happens.

-Frob

Posted by: frobme at May 8, 2010 4:07 PM

For me, Jin staying with Sun was the only conceivable thing he could do. While it's sad that their daughter will grow up without parents, she is presumably safe with her grandmother. I can't imagine him leaving Sun to die alone in a dark submarine at the bottom of the sea, not after everything they'd been through together. Anyway, it wasn't likely that he would make it to the surface in time, and even if he had, his fate belonged to the island.

It was a beautiful, heartwrenching scene. RIP Jin and Sun.

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