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May the Best Man Win

By Daniel Carlson | Posted Under Lost Recaps | Comments (135)



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On “Lost,” especially this season, there are episodes that act as stops on the journey and those that act as the path. “Recon” was the latter, a strictly transitional episode that didn’t do much to forward the plot or, more importantly, take the characters to a new stage. Not even the alternative-timeline plot came to any kind of resolution, and even now, it’s hard to summon up much emotion for the episode that’s positive or negative; it just is.

The Los Angeles Timeline
Sawyer’s in bed with a beautiful woman, because that’s what he does. (She’s played by Jodi Lyn O’Keefe, so I thought she’d wind up with a bigger part in the ep, but I was wrong.) Sawyer realizes he’s late for a meeting and hustles to go when he spills a load of cash from his suitcase, the set-up for a classic con. She grabs a gun and gets the drop on him, calling shenanigans on his story about a business investor, saying she recognizes a con man when she sees one because she used to be married to one. He turns the tables on her and says he’s actually a cop, and that he can call in a squad with one word to take her down. When she calls the bluff, he simply says, “LaFleur,” and vice cops kick in the door and cuff the woman. That’s right: In the non-crash world, he’s James Ford of the LAPD, and he’s partnered with Miles. I would totally watch a show with that premise.

At the office, Sawyer is working his way through a call sheet of Anthony Coopers when Miles comes up to chat, and it becomes clear he thinks Sawyer’s recent trip was to Palm Springs. Miles also tries to set Sawyer up with a friend, but Sawyer claims to have plans. Sensing a dodge, Miles asks Sawyer if he’s telling the truth, which is a nice juxtaposition with the other Miles, who can read people right away. Sawyer agrees to the date, and later on he heads to a nice restaurant to meet the woman, who turns out to be Charlotte. (I get that everyone still knows each other in this world, but come on.) They flirt and dine, and he tells her that he became a cop because he reached a point where he had to choose between crime and law, and he chose law. That was apparently all she needed to hear, because before long, they head back to his place to hook up. When they’re done, Sawyer heads to the bathroom while Charlotte looks for a T-shirt and rummages through his stuff like that’s okay to do. In addition to Watership Down, she finds a binder full of info about Sawyer’s troubled past and the con man that ruined his life, at which point Sawyer returns and flips out about her spying, kicking her out of the apartment.

The next day, Charlie’s brother, Liam, arrives at the police station to ask about his incarcerated sibling, but the action shifts to Miles as he finds Sawyer, takes him in the locker room, and almost starts beating him up. Sawyer thinks it’s about the Charlotte fiasco, but Miles found out about Australia by running Sawyer’s credit cards. (How Miles expects to have a leg to stand on in an argument about trust is beyond me, but whatevs.) Sawyer refuses to say why he was there, so Miles breaks up with him, partner-wise, and storms out. Then Sawyer, determined to hit every beat in the bad 1980s cop-movie playbook, punches a mirror.

That night, Sawyer eats a TV dinner and watches “Little House on the Prairie” when he realizes that life is meant to be shared, it’s bad to be alone, etc. He gets a six-pack and a sunflower and heads over to Charlotte’s, but she blows him off at the door and refuses to let him in. “You blew it,” she says, shutting him out for good. Sometime later, he drives up to the station as Miles is walking by, and Miles joins him in the car so Sawyer can apologize. He gives up the binder and reveals his backstory, and he explains that he’d gone to Sydney to track down a lead about Anthony Cooper. When Sawyer finds the con man, he plans on killing him. They don’t get much further in the talk when a car slams into them and spins around. The driver gets out and starts running as Saywer and Miles (who are totally fine) drive in pursuit. They hop out and continue on foot, and Sawyer gets around and gets the drop on the runner, pulling back the cap to reveal the person to be Kate. It looks like he recognizes her from Oceanic 815, too, but he’s definitely caught by how cute she is.

The Island Timeline
Let’s do this quickly, because not much happened.

Sawyer’s waiting at Claire’s hut for the Enemy and Co. to come back when Jin wakes up. He wants to get out and look for Sun, but Sawyer says they should stick there, with Locke, though they both know it isn’t really John. Everyone eventually gets back, and Claire shows Kate the absolutely creepy fake baby she made, saying it was “all I had.” That thing reminds me of something out of Jan Svankmajer, and I really don’t like to look at it. Fake Locke says it was a “long and traumatic night” and that the people at the Temple were killed by the smoke monster, and with that he pretty much starts leading his group off into the jungle.

As they hike, Sawyer gripes about having to make camp when he wants go home already, so Fake Locke takes him aside and gives him a special mission: reconnaissance on Hydra Island to see how many people are left from the Ajira flight. Sawyer takes a canoe over to the smaller island and investigates the wreckage, finding a pile of corpses in a small clearing near the plane. He sees a woman run by and chases her down and tackles her, which is apparently just how Sawyer deals with people. She tells him she’s “the only one left” and that she was out collecting wood when she heard screams and came back to find everyone dead. Sawyer, though he’s been told by Fake Locke to play it cool, tells this woman, Zoe, the whole story: He and some friends are on the main island with a leader who plans to get them off. They’re pushing the canoe back to the water when she asks Sawyer if he and his people have guns, and the weirdness of the question tips him off that she’s lying. He pulls his weapon on her and tells her to start telling the truth, so she whistles and summons other guys with guns from the jungle. New people are showing up all the time now.

They take Sawyer to the pier, where the sub is docked, and he’s brought below deck to see Charles Widmore. Sawyer says he remembers the man’s name from the Kahana mishap, and though he refuses to believe Widmore’s claim that they aren’t responsible for the deaths of the Ajira passengers, Sawyer does reveal his entire situation with Fake Locke, agreeing to keep Widmore’s presence quiet and lead Fake Locke right to Widmore so the old man can kill him. All Sawyer wants is passage home, and Widmore agrees.

Meanwhile, back on the main island, Claire jumps Kate and almost cuts her throat, and Fake Locke steps in like a bad dad to calm things down by slapping Claire. He takes Kate down to the shore and tells her about Sawyer’s mission and about his own past, saying that long ago he had a crazy mother who wound up scarring him emotionally in ways he’s just now understanding. The Enemy wants Kate to know this because now Claire is a crazy mother, which can have an effect on Aaron.

Sawyer later comes back from his errand and tells Fake Locke everything that he’s seen and done, including the fact that there’s a padlocked door on Widmore’s sub with something hidden inside. Sawyer says he promised to sell out Fake Locke to Widmore, which should help them fight Widmore when the time comes since the old man won’t be looking for the double-cross. When the Enemy thanks him for his loyalty, Sawyer dismisses it and simply says that they had a deal first for a trip home from island, and that’s all he wants. Watching Sawyer work his various cons has always been great, and this one is fascinating because he lies by telling the truth, gaining people’s trust by selling out their enemies.

Later on, he tells Kate what he’s seen, how he promised to help the Enemy, and how he made a similar promise in a double-cross to Widmore. She asks what he plans to do, and he sits back and says, “I’m gonna let them fight it out.” His real plan is to lead Widmore and the Enemy to each other and then grab Kate and escape on the sub, making a final run for freedom from hell island.

And that’s that. See what I mean about a general feeling of being insubstantial? It wasn’t a terrible episode or anything, just a kind of bland one that needed to lay track for what’s coming ahead. The action with Sawyer on the island could easily have been condensed to half an episode, but whatever. I’m glad Widmore’s people are finally on the scene and setting up a sonic fence and prepping for a battle, though who knows what form it could take. I also like that, after so many ups and downs, Sawyer is a little defeated, reduced to a con man just looking for a ticket home. What did everybody else think?

Daniel Carlson is the managing editor of Pajiba and a member of the Houston Film Critics Society, as well as a TV blogger for the Houston Press. You can visit his blog, Slowly Going Bald.









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Comments

Can we agree that all of the alternative universe stuff is just filler? I mean, I understand they use it to tell some stories and bludgeon us with all these parallels but come on. Last season here. Tick Tock.

Posted by: Optimus Rhyme at March 17, 2010 11:43 AM

Reading Dan's recaps (and subsequent Pajiban comments) are the best part of my Wednesday.

Posted by: Coltrane at March 17, 2010 11:44 AM

I didn't hear it in the ep last night, but I found out this morning that Charlotte's works with Miles' dad at the museum - velly intellesting.

Also, the books on his dresser were Watership Down, A Wrinkle in Time, and Lancelot.
/brick

Posted by: Patty O'Green at March 17, 2010 11:51 AM

Thanks for the recap.

I enjoyed the episode. Perhaps it was lacking revelation and just taking us from A to B, but the journey was still fun with nice character moments.

Highlights for me:

Crazy Sayid reacts with complete indifference to Claire's attempt to stab Kate. At that point Kate had to be really wondering what the hell Crazytown she had walked into.

"I'm the Smoke-Thing."

Charlotte in sexy mode.

Credibly twisting Sawyer's fate from con man with a heart gold to cop with a flexible morality.

Did Sawyer read the How To Drive A Submarine manual during those three years in Dharmaville? That's the only potential flaw I'm seeing with his plan at the moment.

I guess this means Juliet will be shooting one of Widmore's people in the canoe?

Did anyone else completely miss that Zoe was played by Sheila Kelley (Debbie from Singles)? I didn't recognize her.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at March 17, 2010 11:57 AM

Okay, I REALLY don't think undercover cops are supposed to have sex with their marks or targets or whatever. I mean, did their lieutenant come up with that plan? "All right, Ford, first we need you to bang this gangster's wife. We'll be waiting outside listening in case anything goes wrong. Then get her to take the case..."

I didn't think it was much of an episode. The whole cop thing seemed like a cheap ploy to subvert the audience's expectations, without actually giving us any further understanding of Sawyer as a character. Sawyer's plan to let Smockey and Widmore fight it out makes sense, but there was so little otherwise to hang on to that the episode as a whole was disappointing.

Posted by: Todd at March 17, 2010 11:57 AM

You didn't mention the best/creepiest part of the girl fight. Kate is screaming for help from Sayid, and he just sits there looking bored. I think that, as much as anything else, pushed her to hysterics, because she is finally realizing that NO ONE is on her side, and that she is essentially alone. Plus, I want to know if there is significance to touch, like there was with Jacob, because Claire made sure to touch Kate a lot.

Yes, the mirror punch was cliche, but haven't we seen a mirror moment with all of the majors in their flash-sideways? I'm ok with it. And yes, Optimus, I sometimes get the feeling that the sideways stories are just for gits and shiggles, but it doesn't really bother me. I like this show for the stories, and the intricate weaving together, so that kind of thing works for me.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at March 17, 2010 12:00 PM

Sorry, Rhyme, I don't believe that the sidewaysflashes are just filler. It seems to me that in each sidewaysflash, the characters are given the opportunity to overcome some obstacle in their life that stands in the way of redemption - some have chosen to change something siginificant about themselves (Jack chose to become the father his dad had never been, Ben chose to put Alex's future happiness over his own desire for a better life), and some have chosen to continue making the same mistakes (Sayid, maybe Sawyer). I think this is significant.

Also, again with the mirrors. I wonder what it means that Sawyers reflection, while initially clear, is fractured when he punches the glass. Now, both he and Sayid had marred/incomplete reflections. I cannot let go of this, because it's been a consistent feature of each and every sidewaysflash.

I am so much more interested in what's going on with the "good guys" than with Locke's group. Maybe it's because more seems to be happening with them? Or maybe because, after six years, I want them all to have happy endings, and it pains me to see them make the wrong choices?

I really can't wait for next week. Seriously guys, it better be fucking awesome.

Posted by: Kolby at March 17, 2010 12:02 PM

Also, I don't mean to get bogged down with the logistics of the LAX universe, as it looks like they might be leaving a lot of it unanswered, but assuming that the LAX universe is a place where the bomb went off on the Island...

How did Miles' dad survive? He was at ground zero with a mangled arm.

Going back to last week's episode, how did both Ben and his Dad get off the Island safely in such a way that would leave Dad wistfully wishing they had stayed? As far as I could tell, Ben wasn't even back in Dharmaville when the Incident took place. Did The Others conveniently bring him back right when all hell was breaking loose? Maybe that does make sense, if The Others observed the evacuation and wanted to fulfill their end of the bargain. I guess it's then possible that Ben and his dad escaped and never even knew the bomb went off.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at March 17, 2010 12:02 PM

I liked the episode, but that might just be because I like Sawyer, but agree that it felt mostly like filler. The off-island stuff is just plain bugging me at this point, because we've had no indication that all this matters in the least. And don't tell me that the producers said that it did--a good show would SHOW us that it matters. A GOOD show doesn't rely on anything outside the show. So until I see for myself that any of this shit matters it just looks completely useless to me.

Anyway. I really just want to know where the hell everyone stands. And the fact that we're so far into the season and still don't have a clue just pisses me off.

1) is Widmore allied with Flocke? I think so. I really don't believe that Widmore is on Jacob's side, anyway. Maybe he's his own faction and really just wants the Island for himself.

2) I still don't believe that Widmore is the one who Hurley was meant to lead to the Island, or the one that Jacob was waiting for. Because Hurley did fuck all (that we saw) and we haven't heard from Jacob at all.

Grr. Seriously this speculation just pisses me off because there's no way to know who's right and wrong, because these bastards haven't given us a way to find out. Bleh. I'm just angry with this show. I know next ep will be better, but...come on.

Posted by: figgy at March 17, 2010 12:03 PM

i think it's dumb that sawyer thinks he can steal a sub. how you gonna drive it? plus, don't you have to be set on a particular course? seems silly.

i agree wholeheartedly with the insubstantial comment. still liked it well enough, but saw most of it coming. on the other hand, i can't WAIT for richard-centric episode next week!

my mom noted somthing-2 different times locke reached out to touch kate and she refused. perhaps he has the same powers as jacob when it comes to touching people?

also, during the 'last week/pop-up video' episode i noted that one of the books was "the chosen". the pop-up memo said that it was about 2 sons and 2 dads....maybe charles widmore is jacob/man in black's dad? coming back to the island to kick their butts for being bad kids?

what is UP with sayid? he's like a zombie.
must say tho, that kate did some decent actressin' when claire went nutso on her.

also, since it seems that the opposite happens in the sideways flashes (example: ben makes the right choice for alex/jack doesn't drink) perhaps the fact that sawyer blew it with charlotte that maybe he won't blow it back on the island?


Posted by: gem at March 17, 2010 12:10 PM

I thought that it was filler as well. I also find it annoying that they are all meeting in the alt timeline. There is no way they will have time to explain how they all happen to know eachother there. The coincidences were subtle and entertaining before, now they are just anvils.

Also at the end, Kate asked Sawyer how they were going to fly the plane. He answered that they are going to take the sub. Somehow to me I think that driving a sub is equally difficult. UGH!

I am sticking with it unitl the end, but it is really not there for me like it used to be.

Posted by: Alli at March 17, 2010 12:10 PM

How did Miles' dad survive? He was at ground zero with a mangled arm.

No he wasn't. Not if the bomb went off.If everything was reset, then 815 never crashed, the Losties never time-jumped, they never went to the 70s, they never attempted to stop the Incident, life would have gone on as if they never existed as far as the island is concerned. So, Pierre Chang would have survived the Incident and gone to to...whatever.

Posted by: Kolby at March 17, 2010 12:13 PM

Any guesses on what the incident might be?

I'm guessing the bomb that the Others had (that we saw when the Losties were jumping through time) went off, because Daniel and Locke weren't there to tell Richard to bury it?

Posted by: figgy at March 17, 2010 12:25 PM

figgy: I don't see why Widmore would construct the sonar fence thing if he was allied with Smokey.

But I do share your frustration re: significance of the sideways flashes. We should be seeing the pathway to reconciliation of the timelines by now. I get it, these characters are connected in a special way and are destined to interact.

The good news is that I think we're seeing the pieces of the chess board set in place. Widmore spoke of a war and choosing sides. Smokey didn't look too happy to hear about Widmore's actions on Hydra Island.

We aren't sure where Jacob fits into that battle, but at least we're seeing some sides assembled for battle.

Posted by: Coltrane at March 17, 2010 12:26 PM

The most interesting piece of information that I gleaned from this episode is that Sawyer and Miles are apparently BFF. I'm in love with this idea.

Posted by: kelsy at March 17, 2010 12:35 PM

Figgy - I thought the Incident was when the Dharma peeps drilled an inch too close to the source of electromagnetic energy on the island and released it, thereby causing some sort of catastrophe. That's why they built that wall in the Swan Station and had to push the button.

Thinking about the Swan station is bringing me back to earlier seasons and all sorts of unanswered questions (what's with the hyroglyphs on the clock in th Swan?), and I REALLY don't want to go there.

Posted by: Kolby at March 17, 2010 12:44 PM

Hmmm....as I remember it, the fence was made to keep EVERYONE out, not just Smokey? DID it ever keep out Smokey? as I've said before, my memory completely sucks.

Wasn't the fence set up while Ben lived there? Why would Ben be afraid of Smokey if he could be the one to summon it? Maybe Smokey was reluctantly under Jacob/Ben's command and they were afraid it'd go rogue?

Posted by: figgy at March 17, 2010 12:44 PM

I screamed in frustration when Widmore's group popped out of the bushes with guns. For the love of God, LOST creators, I'm begging you--NO MORE NEW PEOPLE. We have the Ajira people (all dead apparently), Ilana's people (subgroup of Ajira people and also mostly dead), Temple people, Widmore's people--it's wearying. I have no interest in them and it makes it look like the creators have no clue what they're doing, they're just tossing newbies into the mix whenever they run out of ideas. There are soooo many things left to explain and I'm beginning to think we're never going to get answers.

I was surprised not to see Kate asking Sayid WTF was his problem after Claire nearly knifes her and he just watches.

And yes, having Sawyer sleep with the target was absolutely ridiculous. Cops don't do that.

Posted by: DeadBessie at March 17, 2010 12:53 PM

Have not yet read recap. Had to scroll down to comments to note how UNSPEAKABLY FUCKABLE Sawyer looked last night. There just ain't been near enough Sawyer lately.

Had to get that off my chest. So to speak. Will now read recap.

Posted by: Jerce at March 17, 2010 12:59 PM

LOST thoughts:

-Stoked on the return of Miles & LaFleur. Best buds!

-I know it's going somewhere, but Flocke's bit about crazy mothers was duuumb. It needed either more context or none at all. However, I definitely dug Flocke's shades of Locke, i.e. when he spoke to the kids. Good depth from Flocke.

-Claire's mangy wolf hair is gross, & looks like she's wearing a dried-out jellyfish.

-I still contend that the alt reality will turn out to be the new default reality, following whatever happens at the end.

Posted by: the new transported man at March 17, 2010 12:59 PM

figgy, I remember the sonic fence keeping out Smokey. I think it was the episode where Kate and Juliet are handcuffed together.

Posted by: jM at March 17, 2010 12:59 PM

I guess in the grand scheme of things, I'm getting bored because I'm not getting answers, and I'm starting to zone out whenever they flash back to the island. So in a way the flashsideways scenes are more interesting to me, and I'm starting to wonder if the writers also are bored with writing the island stuff. I guess I'm enjoying the actors playing slightly different roles. I'm thinking this show should have just been on for two season, with a really tight premise and execution. Now I'm just feeling like I'm falling down the rabbit hole and I have zero confidence that the ultimate explanation will be complete or satisfying, mostly because it really, really feels like they're making it up as they go. It's really not like it was the first couple years when I would turn off the phone and sit down in front of the TV enraptured. (I think the meh ending of BSG has really affected me. If Lost ends with "God did it" I think I'll scream, and it's really looking like that might be close to what it will be.)

Posted by: Dudleys Mom at March 17, 2010 1:00 PM

Highlights for me:

1) Mostly nekkid Sawyer is always a win;

2) Crazyface Claire attempting to shiv Kate, while Sayid looks on and ignores Kate's pleas for help;

3) "I am the smokey-thing" to which Sawyer....had almost no reaction?

4) WHO THE FUCK WEARS A DRESS LIKE THAT ON A FIRST/BLIND DATE?????

5) "..the whip. Bring it next time."

6) The first Widmorite out of the jungle was the kid from those bran cereal commercials. "Cardboard, no. Taking down the smoke monster, yes."

7) LITTLE HOUSE ON THE PRAIRIE!!! Oh, Pa....

8) I agree with Kolby re: mirrors and fractured images.

9) Smocke just gets better and better....

10) did I mention mostly nekkid Sawyer???

Posted by: dammitjanet at March 17, 2010 1:01 PM

I forgot to say...I would watch Holloway read the phone book. So, yeah, there's that. Screw the mythology.

Posted by: Dudleys Mom at March 17, 2010 1:02 PM

I'm with Jerce here. Last night's ep could've been all filler, but damn I could do unspeakable things to Sawyer. Specially when he's all cleaned up and god, so fuckable.

*ahem*

Thanks for clearing up the fence thing, guys.

I guess I just don't want Widmore to be on Jacob's side, because that dude has been evil throughout and I hate to be jerked around like this.

Posted by: figgy at March 17, 2010 1:03 PM

I think Widmore is on Jacob's side, because he was an Other, and then got kicked out. My husband has a theory that Widmore was the original captain of the Black Rock (instead of his grandfather) and that the island prevents aging, and since he was kicked off, he's been getting older and he no likey, seeing as how he must be 300 years old, if he is the captain of that ship, where Richard was supposedly a captive (next week = very important!) I dunno. I can't keep all that straight. But I do think he wants to stop NotLocke, and perhaps would like to be the island's protector, but I think that comes from his own ambitions, not to protect the world from NotLocke, necessarily.

The thing I liked about Sawyer's sideways is that he's using his powers for good instead of evil, he's still the same guy, but a cop (who by the way, let Kate go in the airport knowing she was a fugitive. Good cop, bad cop, all at once?). And I guess I don't care about the sideways thing if I like the character (translation: hotness). Just waiting to see the significance. *taps foot impatiently*

I love Miles!
I hate Charlotte!

Also, Hurley: Hurley wasn't really supposed to do anything but be away from the danger in the Temple, as Jacob told him afterwards. I am very interested to see what his deal will be - Jack seems like the obvious choice to be Jacob's replacement, but he doesn't have to be. And if Hurley ends up being the protector, then at least Jacob can instruct him from beyond.

Can't wait for next week. I want more answers! When Kate saw Claire's baby, I swear she was going to ask if Claire had seen Vincent lately, but no. hahaha!

Posted by: Chickaboom at March 17, 2010 1:05 PM

To everyone bitching about the "sideways" timeline: The producers have once again gone public assuring us, most emphatically, that the LA timeline is extremely significant to the story and is not just meandering (as currently appears, even to me).

Of course, they also once announced Arzt as "a new regular character" and then promptly blew him to splatters and completely faked everybody the fuck out.

...both [Sawyer] and Sayid had marred/incomplete reflections. I cannot let go of this, because it's been a consistent feature of each and every sidewaysflash.

EXCELLENT observation. I had not noticed this; but with what's going on with Sawyer/Flocke/Widmore right now, it's very intriguing. I'm delightfully confused as to what Sawyer's real plan is at this point. I can't wait to see his endgame.

Posted by: Jerce at March 17, 2010 1:06 PM

so just as an aside...

When did Charlotte become Skeletor? When Sawyer notices her at the bar, I thought ewwwwww...then when they are in bed and she is basically transparent white? I expected her to roll over and say "I've come to conquer Castle Greyskull" in a full on Skeletor voice.

Posted by: ashes at March 17, 2010 1:14 PM

But, see, Jerce, that's what bugs the hell out of me.

If I didn't know about the producers saying that, why the hell should I care about what's going on in the alternate timeline? There's been absolutely no indication, aside from the sunken island (five minutes into the first episode) that any of it matters. The sudden appearances of other characters were great at the start but at this point it's just so damn annoying.

What I'm trying to say is that I REALLY shouldn't have to rely on information OUTSIDE the show to believe that any of it matters. THE SHOW ITSELF should do that. I think it's a fucking cop-out for the producers to be saying that, and it makes me think they're too lazy or too incompetent to work it into the show.

And yeah, one of these days it'll all make sense but again, we're 9 episodes from the end and I'm getting pretty goddamn tired. And by ta-das! like that are really unsatisfying.

Bleh, this really bugs me.

Posted by: figgy at March 17, 2010 1:16 PM

Jerce: I am not bitching about the timeline, I'm actually enjoying it. But I am in agreement with figgy in that they shouldn't have to publicly declare, outside the show, that the sideways flashes are significant. To me that just means they are too dependent on the flahes as a storytelling device and can't do 42 minutes of straight action in one timeline.

Let's all recall that Ben kicked out Widmore, at least as far as we know. Ben thought Jacob was in the cabin, but that was Smokey. So Ben kicking out Widmore could have been Smokey's plan, and Widmore could very much be on Jacob's side or only acting in self-interest.

Posted by: Coltrane at March 17, 2010 1:20 PM

I just hope that what is locked in the sub turns out to be DESMOND returning to the island by force to take his place as lighthouse #108.

This show needs more Desmond, brother.

Posted by: Claire at March 17, 2010 1:34 PM

A load of shite, that's what I say. Is Sawyer pretty and do I enjoy watching him? Absolutely. But I'm angry at the way we're being dicked around. Whether or not the sideways timeline is significant isn't bothering me a bit. What's bothering me is that the producers and writers are batting us around like little mice being played with by a bored kitty. We're getting very little significant information. They're saving it all up for the last few episodes, and until then, we're going to get all this nonsense in an attempt to keep us trying to think about whether this or that detail is important. I'm guessing in the end, many of them aren't - they're just interesting connections and tidbits to keep stringing us along.

I have enjoyed the journey for the most part, but at this point we should be getting more solid information. I'm sure next week's Richard bio will be swell eye candy and contain a nifty little snippet or two, but I'm also sure it's going to be filler. It's a slap in the face to the longtime fans to hit us with episodes like this one and the last.

Posted by: Cindy at March 17, 2010 1:38 PM

Desmond was exactly my thought too Claire. That's how Widmore found his way back.

Posted by: Cindy at March 17, 2010 1:39 PM

I had only two strong reactions to this episode:

1. The hotness that is Sawyer
2. The music cues were beyond awful this week. It wasn't the most dramatic episode, but the music cues seemed to beat the audience over the head more than usual.
3. Damn. Sawyer.

I mean three strong reactions.

Posted by: Lee at March 17, 2010 1:39 PM

I also thought this episode was just ho-hum, it did not answer very many questions. And that is what they have promised to do in these last episodes. Answer questions. GET ON IT LOST.

I am also annoyed with Widmore's crew on Hydra Island. I could care less about these new people. I hope they die soon. Are we assuming that Smokey killed the Ajira survivors that were piled up?

Also, I love that Sawyer and Miles are besties in the sideways timeline. Besties 4 life!

It is interesting to note that Kate hasn't really taken a side. She is sort of just hanging around, 'cause she's got nowhere else to go. And Locke keeps trying to touch her. And her name was on the wheel in the lighthouse, and not crossed off. So is she a candidate? Or not? Why did Claire hold her hand?

Something is seriously wrong with Sayid. His voice sounds different. Sayid is gone, there is no Sayid. He's going to snap soon.

Posted by: Norwego at March 17, 2010 1:40 PM

(sidebar: Petunia, love your name!)
I would like to agree with Jerce, Dudley's mom, and everyone else who wanted to take the nekkid detective and MAKE A SANDWICH.

Wait, does that mean hot sex or poison everyone? I need help with my Gaga references...

Anyway, I grow weary of referring to the human characters (for now, I am not including Jacob or Smocke) as evil or good. We have been psyched so many times on that front. I cannot call Widmore "evil", even though he often gives me the jibblies.

And I am even more excited about the chess metaphor now, so I was thinking about who would play what pieces on the grand board. That wonderful trailer that came out before this season has been rolling through my mind, along with the visual of the Losties playing along like Wizard's Chess. (I'm a nerd; get over it)

Posted by: Patty O'Green at March 17, 2010 1:44 PM

I'm enjoying the episodes a lot, but, still, every time the promo flashes with Just N more episodes left... I scream at the screen, "Yes, I know that, how about wrapping some things up?"

Posted by: Drake at March 17, 2010 1:50 PM

I really don't think Desmond can be #108, since that person was named Wallace and had already been crossed off. #108 was a red herring placed especially for Jack by Jacob. He just needed Jack to see the mirrors (!) turning so he could observe the images in them.

I haven't needed any public announcement to know that the sidewaysflashes are significant and meaningful. It may seem like anvils when the characters run into each other or are already acquainted with one another in the "other" world. The entire show has been about fate vs. free will almost since day one, why would it be any different in the sidewaysflashes? If someone is meant to be in your life in one way or another, they will be. And again, instead of writing off what's happening in the sidewaysflashes, I've paid attention and noticed quite a lot that I wouldn't have without them. I feel more confident now that the show is heading toward a conclusion and, yes, answers, and it's thanks to the sidewaysflashes.

Also, this: Let's all recall that Ben kicked out Widmore, at least as far as we know. Ben thought Jacob was in the cabin, but that was Smokey. So Ben kicking out Widmore could have been Smokey's plan, and Widmore could very much be on Jacob's side or only acting in self-interest.

Yes. The "Jacob" that Ben was loyal to was not the real Jacob. He was following someone else's orders the whole time, and it was that "Jacob" he was angry enough with to make drive a knife through the real Jacob's heart. I think he realized last week, with both Miles's and Ilana's help, that the real Jacob maybe really was someone worth believing in.

Posted by: Kolby at March 17, 2010 1:51 PM

I don't have a problem with the producers saying, "Trust us, this will be important." Assuming they're telling the truth, the importance of the side stories WILL eventually be clear. The producers are basically saying, "Don't bail, we know what we're doing." They don't want viewers to stop watching because something seems pointless when it really isn't.

That said, some of the side stories work for me, and some don't. The Locke one worked because his decision to give up on hope and stop living in denial, and instead try to concentrate on a realistic future with his wife, was an organic and believable (not to mention sweet) emotional arc. Sawyer deciding to stop lying about his past to Miles just doesn't feel like something we needed to see, especially given the out-of-nowhere fact of him being a cop.

Posted by: Todd at March 17, 2010 1:59 PM

Kolby >> Ah, I see what you are saying. I've been operating under the assumption that the LAX universe equated to the aftermath of the bomb's actually exploding and that the only difference between the two universes is everything that happens after 1977, i.e., the two universes we are watching would be identical up to that point. Creating that dichotomy seemed the clearest and easiest route to go. You're right that to avoid paradox it makes sense that a third universe would be generated. Thanks!

Posted by: DarthCorleone at March 17, 2010 1:59 PM

By the way, Doctor Who fans might get a kick out of this. We were watching "Silence In The Library" / "Forest Of The Dead" on BBC America right before Lost last night. The Doctor scoffs at River Song's occupation of archaeologist, as he is a time traveler. There was a parallel in the scene with Sawyer and Charlotte at the restaurant, as he's asking her about being an archaeologist, and we couldn't help riffing on Sawyer - who is a time traveler himself (in an alternate reality, at least) - reacting like the Doctor did with characteristic Sawyer bravado.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at March 17, 2010 2:10 PM

The "Jacob" that Ben was loyal to was not the real Jacob. He was following someone else's orders the whole time

Hold on, Kolby, Ben admitted after the fact that he had never seen or made direct contact with Jacob. If he ever "received orders from Jacob", it would have been through Richard, who (IMHO) would have gotten them direct.

Could someone refresh my memory about Sayid's mirror moment? I'm trying to understand the timing and significance of each one, and I don't recall his.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at March 17, 2010 2:12 PM

By the way, Doctor Who fans might get a kick out of this. We were watching "Silence In The Library" / "Forest Of The Dead" on BBC America right before Lost last night. The Doctor scoffs at River Song's occupation of archaeologist, as he is a time traveler. There was a parallel in the scene with Sawyer and Charlotte at the restaurant, as he's asking her about being an archaeologist, and we couldn't help riffing on Sawyer - who is a time traveler himself (in an alternate reality, at least) - reacting like the Doctor did with characteristic Sawyer bravado.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at March 17, 2010 2:10 PM

Oh, blessed mother of godtopussy, that makes me so happy that my ladyparts are all a-tingle...

....mmmmm.....Doctor/dammit/Sawyer sammich.......

Posted by: dammitjanet at March 17, 2010 2:20 PM

Good point, Patty. Hmmmmm. Well, I guess it's enough for me that he really had no idea what Jacob wanted. Richard, we now know, really wasn't "in the loop," so it's possible Ben was hanging out in the cabin, making shit up.

Posted by: Kolby at March 17, 2010 2:25 PM

Kolby said:

I haven't needed any public announcement to know that the sidewaysflashes are significant and meaningful...The entire show has been about fate vs. free will almost since day one, why would it be any different in the sidewaysflashes? If someone is meant to be in your life in one way or another, they will be...I feel more confident now that the show is heading toward a conclusion and, yes, answers, and it's thanks to the sideways flashes.

Absolutely. These characters' destinies are intertwined, no matter the timeline. We know this because they are candidates to replace Jacob. We know the island is special and important, but we don't know why. The BIG reveals are all on the island though. So the point about the flash sideways is that, at least right now, they are not as significant as the island plot. Yet Darlton devote an equal amount of time to each. That tells me they are too dependent on the flashes as a storytelling device. Everything at this point should be significant, I trust them enough to assume that. But there are degrees of significance.

Posted by: Coltrane at March 17, 2010 2:28 PM

Kolby, I don't care or think that Desmond is number 108 - but I think it's possible he's locked in that room on the sub. It just seems like something Widmore would do.

I can't quite agree that Ben was following a fake Jacob (aka MIB) the whole time. Ben received the list of people to find after the 815 crash, presumably from the real Jacob. Ben always received instructions from an unseen Jacob - so I'm not sure we even have enough information to know when Smokey began impersonating Jacob in the cabin. I do think that Ben had dealings with the real Jacob.

Posted by: Cindy at March 17, 2010 2:41 PM

i'm pretty sure Ben was in the cabin making shit up, but that Jacob was also in the cabin, just not talking to Ben--that's why Ben was so upset when Jacob talked to Locke. the only thing i'm not clear on is when Smokey first entered the cabin--since we saw him there as Christian with Claire. i know at some point the ash/sand/whatever protective barrier was broken and that Smokey was outside before that happened. i'm just curious because i'm not sure whether Locke was actually communicating with Jacob. maybe it was Smokey the whole time--or maybe the only reason the cabin mattered was that Ben decided to make up the whole thing about Jacob being there in the first place.

can't wait until next week. i'm still not convinced that Richard was in the dark. his whole suicide thing could have been staged to bring Jack fully into the whole man of faith thing that Jacob seems to want, but i'm a conspiracy nutter so i always think things like that.

Posted by: pq at March 17, 2010 2:41 PM

Yeah but I got that they were all intertwined and connected from the first episode this season. The problem is that they keep hammering this point over and over and over again when WE GET IT. THEY ALL NEED EACH OTHER ANYWAY. We're not dumb! we know! now move on to the next point and stop repeating this to death.

I'm with Coltrane here. I think it's a very weak device they're using.

Posted by: figgy at March 17, 2010 2:42 PM

after reading Cindy's comment i remember that Jacob stopped talking to Ben at some point and that was when Ben started making shit up!

Posted by: pq at March 17, 2010 2:43 PM

I think it was always Smokey at the cabin, never Jacob. Ben couldn't see him, ever, but he pretended to when he was trying to get Locke to do what he wanted. As far as we know, Ben just knew this was a spooky cabin which would work well for his plans. But Smokey never revealed himself to Ben because he knew he was weak, or at least 'claimed' by Jacob (remember that baby Ben was dipped into the pool after he was shot). Ben got his instructions from Jacob through Richard, who never knew what was up either.

When Locke went in by himself he talked to Smokey, not Jacob. I think Smokey's been locked in the cabin, being able to leave only when he was summoned, and he could only take the physical shape of people who were dead. So he got out (someone let him out by breaking the ash circle), and he finally took Locke's body and now he can't change again.

Posted by: figgy at March 17, 2010 2:47 PM

I don't think Jacob ever talked to Ben. He had no idea who the hell he was the night he murdered him, remember? He talked about how he had spent his entire life doing everything he though Jacob wanted him to do, only to be completely ignored. I think he knew there was a Jacob, and that Richard worked for him, and that Jacob was the one who annointed the Others' leader, and he used that information to manipulate himself into a position of power. I'm not sure Ben ever spoke to Jacob, because before he was killed, Jacob was a human being. I am speculating here, but I don't think he was able to just appear and reappear willy-nilly. I think he got around the island just like everyone else who lived there - by walking. So it's possible that Jacob vacated the cabin long before we were ever introduced to it.

Oh, I don't know. I'm just rambling at this point. I do still love trying to figure all this out, though.

Posted by: Kolby at March 17, 2010 2:49 PM

Ilana and co. went to the cabin looking for Jacob, right? When they first came to the island. They torched the place when they realized the ash circle was broken. My memory is hazy.

Posted by: Coltrane at March 17, 2010 3:16 PM

Sadly no one has pointed out that the first person with a gun out of the bushes when the chick from Singles whistled was Chip from Kate & Allie (or one of the kids from Mr. Mom, although I don't remember his name).

And after Claire went all crazy on Kate, the wife and I looked at each other and said "why isn't she going off on Sayid right now?"

And I agree - this show desperately needs more Desmond, brotha!

Posted by: JH at March 17, 2010 3:25 PM

Shouldn't we all be referring to him as Zombie Sayid at this point?

Posted by: Tony at March 17, 2010 3:28 PM

I second that thought, Tony!

I want to know more about this cabin. Remember, according to Locke's vision (or whatever), Horace built it for himself and the missus (though which one, who knows).

Posted by: Patty O'Green at March 17, 2010 3:33 PM

Kolby, I love reading your comments because I'm pretty sure you and I are brain twins when it comes to this show, and you catch even more things that I don't always notice.

I don't have much to add that hasn't been said, but I think I'm in the minority of those who actually really enjoyed last night's episode. There are still 8 episodes left (about 5 and half hours) and that's a lot of time to tell a story. I have faith that the producers know what they're doing and know where they're going with this and I enjoy the ride. Also, love Sawyer episodes!

I also really enjoyed the Sawyer as a cop storyline. Perhaps it's because I work in law enforcement, but as someone else mentioned I like the thin line between Sawyer as the con man with a heart of gold and Sawyer as the cop with flexibly morality. Also, the whole part with him sleeping with the mark is not all that unbelievable. The problem I had with that scenario is the 85 cops storming in to take her into custody. Cops work pretty damn hard to keep their cover a secret and they don't just put up neon signs announcing it like that at the end of a job. Sorry. The rant officially ends there.

Other highlights for me:

- loved the part with Claire attacking Kate and Sayid completely being completely indifferent.

- Sawyer conning everyone

- Kate's breakdown away from the group and her interaction with MIB, I thought it was a really solid episode for her character (who I'm usually lukewarm towards)

Posted by: Even Stevens at March 17, 2010 3:33 PM

Oh, I don't know. I'm just rambling at this point. I do still love trying to figure all this out, though.

Posted by: Kolby at March 17, 2010 2:49 PM

Me too, brotha.

Posted by: Coltrane at March 17, 2010 3:42 PM

I haven't read the review yet or most of the comments but I seem to be in the minority in liking this episode. Maybe it didn't advance things forward in any dramatic way but I liked the way we saw how so many of the characters transformed from our expectations of themselves. Sayid just sitting there blankly while Claire tried to kill Kate, Locke smacking Claire (yes, I know it isn't the real Locke but it was still a bit jolting for me), etc. I guess what I liked most was seeing a lot of the characters that have been separated from one another interacting again but in different ways than we've come to expect based on their relationships to one another.

Or maybe that was just me.

Posted by: prairiegirl at March 17, 2010 3:44 PM

LOST creators:

I'm calling bullshit. Maybe it's because I have no patience for Fate (dundunDUN!), but I don't think the answer to the question the audience and main characters have been asking all along (are they free or are they pawns?) is to say "they are important because they are free pawns of freedom. And I realize that my argument holds very little water (a guy who hates the Fate concept watching LOST? Absurd) but the constant zooming out has got to stop. Scope, people. SCOPE!

-coryo, orhave I simply been manipulated into writing this (more dundunDUN)?

Nah, like I said before: bullshit.

Posted by: coryo at March 17, 2010 3:49 PM

FREDERICK KOEHLER! THANK YOU, JH. As soon as I saw that guy, I was all, "WHY do I KNOW him?!" It drove me nuts for a good half an hour before I was distracted by a shiny object, which turned out to be a Cadbury Creme Egg. mmmmmmmmmmm sugary slime.

Anyway, while I agree this was pretty much purely filler, there was stuff I liked about it. I enjoyed Creepy Claire, I LOVED The Miles & Sawyer Buddy Cop Show (except Charlotte, who was a TOTAL cunt), I loved Jin's deep sexy waking-up voice and his shaggy hair which somehow manages NOT to look like a dead muskrat CLAIRE, I liked Evil Zombie Sayid letting Claire kill Kate. I did feel that Sawyer was onto FourEyes right away (at least I hope so, because even I wasn't buying what she was selling). I was annoyed by the flash-sideways just stopping in the middle of some action, but I think that was partly because Ben's last week had at least some small sense of closure and this just literally stopped in mid-scene, though I do get there's a reason for that.

Something I thought of was that UnLocke keeps telling people different things, e.g. he told Sawyer, "It's just an island, it doesn't need anyone to protect it," but then last week he told Ben he needed someone to "stay behind and be in charge" of it. I have no real thing to say about that, it just occurred to me pretty much randomly.

Mmmmm Jin. He just keeps getting sexier.

Posted by: Anna von SPARKLEBeaverpuppet at March 17, 2010 4:13 PM

I want to call bullshit on Sawyer being a cop in this universe and
not doing anything about Kate being in handcuffs in the elevator
at the airport. BULLSHIT!

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at March 17, 2010 4:37 PM

Did anyone else notice that Sawyer is dressed like Richard in that picture up there? Right down to the satchel slung across his chest?

Weird.

Posted by: Kolby at March 17, 2010 4:56 PM

Mrs. Julien >> Sawyer was just so completely beguiled by Kate's cuteness that he let her off the hook. Not bullshit at all. :- )

Posted by: DarthCorleone at March 17, 2010 4:59 PM

I've been enjoying this season so far but I have two main concerns nonetheless. One, regardless of the relevance of the new sideways reality, will it ultimately negate the complicated character back stories that have been developed over the previous five seasons? That would be extremely unfortunate, as those stories were generally very well done and represent a huge part of the show's overall mythology.

Two, it's a little unnerving to see the writers introduce "new" mysteries while many other old, huge ones are still looming. Sure, we've learned that Fake Locke is the smoke monster but that does nothing to explain the monster's actions over the last five seasons. We also learned that the infamous numbers represent Jacob's candidates, however that does nothing to explain why the Dharma folks were using those numbers in their hatch. Meanwhile, we've been introduced to new characters at the previously unseen temple, we have Widmore arriving with even more new people, there's a mysterious locked door on a submarine, Jin is discovered in Keamy's freezer by Sayid, Sawyer, of all people, appears to have apprehended fugitive Kate in a reality that may or may not have happened, all the Ajira people are dead, we still know next to nothing about Ilana, etc.

I really don't want to be one of "those" people LOL but I'm a bit edgy. This could be one of the most epic and memorable TV series climaxes ever, or it could be a massively disappointing debacle that crashes the Internet the following morning due to unbridled fanboy rage.

Posted by: Dr. Remulak at March 17, 2010 5:12 PM

^This^

This guy right here gets it.

Posted by: Coltrane at March 17, 2010 5:39 PM

Dear Kate:

Please wash your face once in awhile.

Thank you,

Wendy

Posted by: Wendy at March 17, 2010 5:40 PM

I skimmed the comments and didn't see the following issue brought up, so forgive me if I overlooked it:

With Sawyer being a cop in the LAX timeline, that means he was a cop when he went to Australia, which means that when the plane crashed the first time, he was a cop (something that was never mentioned in previous seasons), which means that he should have recognized Miles when he eventually showed up on the island. Sawyer's sideways flashes is the only one that doesn't pick up where he supposedly left off. Kate's still a criminal, Locke is still in a wheel chair returning from an unsuccessful walk about, Claire still pregnant and giving Aaron up for adoption, etc. The only one that's kind of close is that Jack has a son in the LAX timeline.

I was always under the impression that the bomb only affected the timeline after the plane crash. After seeing last night's episode (and Jack's, I suppose), I'm to believe that the entire timeline was affected? Or is it a completely new timeline?

My head hurts...

Posted by: Se7en2 at March 17, 2010 5:47 PM

I'll predict the last episode / last scene:

Everybody wakes up at Rekall a satisfied customer.

Posted by: Ojo Verde at March 17, 2010 6:21 PM

This episode just made me wish that Josh Holloway were cast in the Rockford Files remake and not goofy ass Dermot Mulrony. Seriously can we start a campaign? Garner deserves better.

Posted by: Mebe at March 17, 2010 6:25 PM

Se7en2 >>

I was always under the impression that the bomb only affected the timeline after the plane crash.

We've been clearly shown this is not the case. Even those Losties that you claim to be doing the same thing have differences. (Sayid's brother has married Nadia. Hurley now has good luck. Locke never broke up with Helen and has a good relationship with his father. Even Kate might have differences of which we are not yet aware. I.e., a good theory I heard last night: it will turn out in this alternate universe she did not commit the crime in question.)

Similar to you, I was under the impression that there were only changes after The Incident in 1977. As Kolby points out above, we're now seeing even that is not the case. So, yeah, this is a completely new timeline. It's the only way to avoid paradoxes. If we're in a universe in which the crash never happens, this would also imply that the original time travel never happens, which means all of the influence exerted by the Losties on The Island before The Incident never happened either. Also, Jacob's intervening in all of their lives did not happen in the same way (if at all).

My head hurts too.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at March 17, 2010 6:28 PM

@se7en2

The timeline branches from the date the bomb went off, which was the 70's. Everything after that could be different.

Posted by: theresa at March 17, 2010 6:29 PM

theresa >> See above. Kolby convinced me it's probably not that simple.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at March 17, 2010 6:33 PM

Se7en2, it appears to be a similar, but altered, timeline. In the one where the plane crahes, Sawyer is not, nor ever was, a cop. So he did not know Miles. In the alternate timeline, Sawyer choose to be a cop instead of being a con man. Locke is in a wheelchair, but not because his father pushed him out a window. Jack is a doctor . . . with a son. It's not just a timeline where the characters didn't crash on an island, it's one where their lives and histories are different in significant ways.

Posted by: Lauren at March 17, 2010 6:34 PM

Mrs Julien, I thought that as well. If they're gonna surprise us with him being a cop, don't have him do something as utterly moronic as LETTING A CONVICT ESCAPE. Keep track of your own story, dammit.

Posted by: figgy at March 17, 2010 6:43 PM

In all seriousness, I don't see the inconsistency there. Letting a convict walk out of an elevator when it's impossible to prove that he noticed the handcuffs is no big deal, especially when juxtaposed with his slightly more serious plans to murder someone. The only thing that moment does is reinforce his moral flexibility. See The Wire or The Shield for credible examples of police who don't do everything on the up and up.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at March 17, 2010 6:58 PM

I do believe that Ben said at some point he had never spoken with Jacob - nonetheless, he got orders from Jacob (such as with the list of names). I guess Jacob only communicated by note or through Richard, and I'd guess that Ben made a lot of presumptions in the name of Jacob. But I do believe Ben received instructions from the real Jacob in some manner before Smokey was impersonating Jacob in the cabin.

Darth, I don't think I ever assumed that the sideways was only a changed timeline from x point. Too many things are affected by others for it to have been so very specific a moment.

Dr. Remulak, you speak for me.

Posted by: Cindy at March 17, 2010 8:38 PM

Re: When did the timeline change?

I think it's helpful to not think of the sideways flashes as a third timeline, like Doc Brown's drawing on the chalkboard. Let's assume there is only one timeline, but the one we knew changed due to the Incident. So, what changed?

Flight 815 landed in LAX. So the Losties never crashed, and never time-traveled. What would be helpful, and I have neither the time or resources to conduct this research, is a list of every time that the time-travelers visited and what they did in each period. Because whatever they did then, never happened. That's why the sideways flashes reveal a world that is similar to what we knew, yet different in several key ways.

I swear that made sense in my head.

Posted by: Coltrane at March 17, 2010 9:07 PM

Cindy >> I do think that third universe exists somewhere, though, with time moving linearly forward from the bomb detonation. We're just not seeing the story of it. Chaos theory could have affected many variables in the LAX universe with the change, but I would have thought the changes would only take effect as far back as the influence of Oceanic 815's crash goes. Otherwise, the strength of the narrative tie to our original universe seems very tenuous.

Maybe The Incident snuffed that third universe I'm imagining out of existence at the same moment it created the alternative universe? I guess they can make up whatever they want with this timey-wimey junk.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at March 17, 2010 9:09 PM

Now I am all confused regarding Ben kicking Widmore out on Jacob's orders. I specifically remember Ben and Hurley and possibly Locke going to the cabin in the earlier seasons and the ash circle was intact. Granted, the camera didn't show the entire ash line. However, when Locke talked to Claire and Christian in the cabin, the ash circle was shown broken. I was under the impression that it was Claire who broke the line. So, I gather that before Claire arrived, whenever Ben visited the cabin (even if Jacob did not appear to him), the cabin was safe and could not be invaded by Smokey. Therefore, since Smokey was not allowed and Jacob wasn't speaking to Ben, Ben kicked out Widmore under his own volition?

Posted by: Scully at March 17, 2010 9:09 PM

good catch se7en2...i'd been soooo distracted w/the sawyer-yumzzzz i didn't notice/recog that this was the first we knew of sawyer as cop, and sure didn't make the mental jump to the congruency issues of the other lead's circumstances....damnit. and big laffz to all the ladies' comments - detective sammich, read the fonebook etc... hell even watch him eat the fonebook would be fine by me!!! i just hope post lost...we see holloway (preferably half nekkid) weekly, some bat-time... some bat-channel >:)pittypatheartflutterzWOOF!
and thank god charlotte blew him off, maybe she's blown off for good........

and at least i was correct about sawyer's loyalties to sawyer.. definitely not team smokey, never had a doubt.

kate.. i think, was freaked in general... i'm sure just aftr the attack, she realized sayid - hadn't interfered...and that she is currently alone in whackadoo camp, realizes her entire reason for going bak to find claire was in vain as she is queenwackadoo.. hence the boohoo..for herself, claire, aaron and....pms?

smokie's pulling claire off her and the sob mommy dearest story was clear attempt to get her to buy his 'i'll protect you' line....until she's no longer of any possible use, even as hedge/insurance against a sawyer doublecross w/whidmore or as a bargining chip to force a concession frm anybody else who cared enuff to save her.. prob jack. i don't think smokey's touch will make a diff one way or the other... just manipulation to engender trust and judge his manipulation's effectiveness.

hurley is still wearing the red tshirt of death...so we'll see..
didn't he buy up most all the seats on that ajira flight? or was that another flt, or did they get bump'd?????..i dont' remb the audience getting to see sooo many extras on the ajira flt, that ended up in the pile...? btw, that drag line in the sand looked really lame, it was too even and parallel. tsk tsk..

well... maybe sawyer is counting on forcing whomever is left guarding the sub... hopefully someone who can run the 'com'... whidmore'd never leave that unguarded. so then there's the plane/lapidus... for (b) exit.. if he's keeping his cards close to his chest, just so kate somehow won't fuk that up....

richard's backstory should be interesting... i hope we get answers as to when smokey had richard in chains and why did he let him go..or did jacob intervene?

smokey.. can still shapeshift, but can't leave the island as smokey.. he apparently must leave as smocke.. or his story to sawyer could be a ruse-use.. he's told sawyer the very thing he wanted to hear(let's leave)to enlist his help.. told ben(he could again be 'island keeper').. promised sayid - nadia....
i wonder what he'll promise jack to try and turn him? i think hurley has an immunity stick of sorts in that he can see jacob.. the others can't.. so he probably can't be turned.. or would be more difficult...

and if there are no candidates left - or any who want to take jacob's place.. then what?

!!! i bet whidmore's got faraday's mum in that lock'd room... it would make more sense than dez...as i still think whidmore got the coord's to the island frm her.. brought along as unwilling insurance that she'd told the truth...
and.. he was frogmarched off the island onto the sub, banished at gunpoint by ben. so definite score to settle there, along w/alex death...but i remb. ben saying he wished he could kill him.. so i guess neither can kill the other personally...
dunno? maybe there's something whidmore has discovered thru the log, that's still on the blackrock.. or buried on the island that he wants...


and damnit, i still wanna know who/what all the jungle whispers were... souls that died there, and are stuck in proximity (like smokey) because the 'battle of evermore' continues? jacob/MIB.. on the beach.. 'it always ends the same' or some variant that the 'game' is a recurring thing along w/all the names on the lighthouse wheel... so maybe the whispers were the resident ghost peanut gallery taking bets or discussing odds..?

ah well.. gonna stop b4 i get to total braindrain..

samebattime...samebatchannel.... on to ..richard.

Posted by: kikz at March 17, 2010 9:14 PM

Chickaboom but we have seen Widmore age. In Jughead we see him at 17 and it's 1954. Then in Follow The Leader we see him much older. Finally, Widmore is exiled (Dead Is Dead) after the purge, which I think happened in 1992.

This doesn't mean that he can't be the captain of the Black Rock (though I don't think so), but Jacob did not grant him everlasting youth.

Posted by: Scully at March 17, 2010 9:21 PM

Wanted to add that I also think it's Desmond locked up in the sub, or if he's not locked up, then he is somewhere in there...along with Penny.

Ever since The Constant I *need* for Adam & Eve to be Desmond & Penny. It has to be them!

Posted by: Scully at March 17, 2010 9:28 PM

I hate Kate with a passion, so when Claire went after her with that knife, I nearly jumped off the couch in excitement. Damn you, fake-Locke for interrupting what could have been a beautiful thing. Sayid just sitting there was like icing on the cake.

I wasn't blown away by the episode as a whole, but the Sawyer yumminess helped.

As for next week--is Richard the captain of the Black Rock, or am I completely reading the situation wrong?

Posted by: Isabella at March 17, 2010 9:59 PM

Isabella didn't Richard arrive in chains on the Black Rock? Who knows, maybe he was the captain and then he got chained. Maybe he was a prisoner the entire time. Anyway, we'll find out next week!

Posted by: Scully at March 17, 2010 10:12 PM

Isabella, I am so with you on the "needing Kate to be dead because she is the worst" thing. Jack can go too, so far as I'm concerned. But yeah, mostly Kate.

Posted by: coryo at March 17, 2010 10:36 PM

Scully, I didn't see the ash circle around the cabin as keeping Smokey out, but rather in. I don't think Jacob has been in the cabin any time recently - he was in the statue. Rather, Smokey was trapped in the cabin until that circle of ash was broken. What I'm saying is that I think Ben did receive real orders from real Jacob, but he wasn't getting them from the cabin or by speaking with Jacob. He always got his orders by note or through Richard.

Darth, you're making my head hurt - not that that takes much. I'm thinking of the sideways timeline as something not terribly important, but perhaps that's more because of my own desires than anything. I don't want sideways to end up as reality, because I find it depressing to think that everything we learned over the last five years is mostly wiped out. My thinking has always been that one of the timelines - either the island one or the sideways one has to become reality eventually. Either that would happen by some sort of convergence, whereby parts of each timeline would become reality, or one timeline (in my mind the sideways) would essentially be overtaken by the one true reality. The significance of the sideways timeline is that this group of people was always meant to be in each others' lives. Maybe there are even significances to the true nature of certain characters. Like with Ben, we've seen him choose good now in both timelines, so maybe he was right all along ("We are the good guys!"). Maybe we're going to eventually see the true nature of each person through both timelines. Sayid always ends up the bad guy...

Posted by: Cindy at March 17, 2010 10:40 PM

for those of you who haven't had their minds blown yet.... a timeline in pictures....

http://www.olivierlacan.com/projects/lostintime/

Posted by: the monkey man at March 17, 2010 10:46 PM

That is an incredible find, monkey man. I don't remember half of this stuff happening!

And hey, anyone else wondering at the bullshit Flocke spilled about taking the plane off the Island? because there is NO WAY that that plane would work, and I'm 100% sure that he was lying to Sawyer about that being their method to get off the Island. How exactly is he planning to do this? I mean, he's a supernatural, immortal being...and what he wants to do is take a plane or a boat? That seems highly unlikely to me.

So what the hell's his plan?

Augh. That timeline seriously gave me a headache. I cannot wait to watch the whole show over again from the beginning.

Posted by: figgy at March 18, 2010 12:01 AM

Monkey man . . . I think I love you.

Posted by: Lauren at March 18, 2010 12:11 AM

figgy >> To quote Star Trek V: "What does god need with a starship?"

I don't believe a single non-expository word that Flocke says. In my estimation the guy lies more than Ben did in the old days.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at March 18, 2010 12:18 AM

figs, for sure MIB is lying - but I was thinking that plane looked to be in remarkably good shape. He's got to have some weird plan that likely has to do with rules. I don't know, maybe he must be carted off island on one of those beds that people carry?

I was just remembering how rules can be broken though. Like Ben wasn't supposed to be able to come back to the island, but he could if he came with the O-6. And Ben said Widmore broke rules by allowing Keamy to kill Alex.

Posted by: Cindy at March 18, 2010 12:33 AM

That made remember a few things that could be significant:

1) Ben was lying all along about Jacob--telling Juliet he'd heal her sister, etc. But he NEVER talked to Jacob at all! he probably just meant a dip in the pool

2) Richard's been testing Locke since he was a baby, right. But, isn't he supposed to not know about the candidates? what did he think he was doing? Why only Locke, when he turned out to be a failure?

3) WHAT THE HELL BLEW UP THAT STATUE?

that thing gave me a headache for reals.

Posted by: figgy at March 18, 2010 12:58 AM

Cindy >> At this point the only way to justify some of these "rules" governing those below the level of Jacob and Smokey might be to just say that they were fabricated as a means of control. It's difficult to imagine an elegant explanation that can be delivered within the current flow of these episodes.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at March 18, 2010 1:14 AM

DarthCorleone wrote:
How did Miles' dad survive? He was at ground zero with a mangled arm.

Where in the episode did they say Miles' dad was still alive?

Kolby responded:
No he wasn't. Not if the bomb went off.If everything was reset, then 815 never crashed, the Losties never time-jumped, they never went to the 70s, they never attempted to stop the Incident, life would have gone on as if they never existed as far as the island is concerned. So, Pierre Chang would have survived the Incident and gone to to...whatever.

I don't think that makes sense, it'd be a time paradox. If you say that the Losties never time-jumped because the bomb went off, then they never would have been in 1977 to set off the bomb! In most science fiction stories featuring branching alternate histories, the idea is that if I go back to 1950 and change history, that creates a new timeline that branches from the old one when I appeared in 1950 and started changing things...so my appearance in 1950 is part of the new altered history, it didn't happen in the original history I came from. I don't know if Lost is using these exact rules, but it makes sense that the Losties being on the island pre-Incident would be part of the new history.

Posted by: Jesse M. at March 18, 2010 1:45 AM

Jesse M. >> Miles said that his father worked at the museum with Charlotte. It seems a strong probability that this would be a scientist and the same guy.

Your description is what I originally thought they were going after with the time travel, but the survival of Miles' dad really seems to be at odds with this. If you have a single universe in which characters exist in 1977 as a result of time travel but were never around in 2007 to time travel in the first place, that's a paradox. If you allow for an infinite number of parallel universes, you can get around the paradox problem. In this LAX universe that we're seeing, who says that there had to be a bomb detonation in 1977?

Posted by: DarthCorleone at March 18, 2010 2:31 AM

I didn't remember that. Could be an adopted dad, but you're right that him working at the museum does suggest it was Pierre. On the other hand, we know Ben's dad still worked on the island at some point and then left, I had figured that was because Miles' dad evacuated all non-essential Dharma initiative folks before the incident (it seems strange that the writers would have made a point of including that detail if it wasn't to explain how people like Ben and Ethan could be alive in the LAX timeline) So if you're right that it wasn't the bomb that sunk the island in the LAX timeline, I wonder what it could have been? Did it still sink in 1977 or at some other time?

Posted by: Jesse M. at March 18, 2010 3:15 AM

I don't want to play the devil's advocate but you really got to give Darlton (love that) a break.

They know what they're doing.

Upon the arrival of this sixth season, I rewatched all previous ones from the fifth to the first, in that order. If it's obvious that some of the very first ideas to emerge went nowhere - given the amount of balls they were blowing it's for the best - like the french woman (I'm French so I just can't stand a barely competent actress looking like a taxidermist's fantasy WHO DOESN'T EVEN SPEAK FRENCH nor talk with a french accent) and the so-called infection and corollary vaccine, in the end, everything or so make solid sense. Those inconsistencies some of us seem to stumble upon are not that huge and have, IMHO, more to do with our own problems to (fore)see the big picture. Even though that's the whole purpose of the show.

The incident has created another reality, another dimension, where everything is slightly different in surface, but really is deeply different because, our heroes have to face who they are in real life and not as persons put in an extraordinary situation, namely the island crash and ensued hijinks. Sayid is an assassin, and it's his true nature. Since the show conjured any form of dumb Manicheism, he's able to love, to care for his nephew and niece, but as a sociopath, he's just incapable of functioning normally. So at this point on the island timeline, even if he's not even began to pay the price, he's doomed, and in a way it's normal. The guy's a fucking killer.

Same goes for for Jack, John, Kate, Claire, Sawyer and Ben, they managed to overcome whatever problems they drag since the first episode, by making slightly different choices, which, in effect, change everything. Sawyer, as a criminal, wouldn't had the opportunity to have a friend, a confident. It seems like a small thing for us, but it's a big fucking difference for the Sawyer he was. We'll see. It can go either way, but I can't help but feeling optimistic concerning James Ford. Also as a sidenote, I too thought at the end of the opening that a spinoff starring Leung and Holloway would be the tits.

I think when the producers said that the sideway flashes have their importance, they meant that what we're seeing is a conclusion, because every single wrong choice the losties made before the crash (and after) is somehow fixed so they became better human beings. Probably because, as someone pointed out already, Jacob didn't interfere with them since the island disappeared almost 30 years ago. In this case, Sawyer wasn't handed a pen to go on the wrong path. Kate probably wasn't saved by the stranger and faced her juvenile crime, growing up with a better sense of justice... etc... The most eloquent example is Locke. Since the guy died thinking "What the fuck" - which we all have thought to be the saddest thing - going on to lead a happy life with a great woman, making sane choices, is definitely a progress.

I'm certain that Darlton are not just playing with philosopher's name or symbolical titles. Shepherd was a shepherd in the first season. . That was what the first season was about : the recreation of society, justice and community. He was the opposite to Ana Lucia, who was the alpha male of a pack of wolves.

What has always been so cool about Lost is that there is so many layers, and so many questions so that at some point in the third season, you pause and you hurt your brain on things like, wow, what if Ben is right when he says they're the good guys? After all, he never murdered anyone till Locke (Michael killed Ana Lulu and Libby, Charlie killed Ethan, Ana Lucia killed Goodwin...) and I'm pretty sure he did it, like everything else, in the interest of the island, but wait, Ethan was the one who captured Claire and left Charlie for dead, hung up to a tree. Aaargh

Everything will make sense, and nothing is a coincidence. If you read Kant, you get the significance of the parallel timeline. The losties caused this dimension to exist, even if they are not a part of it. They have to face the consequence of their act on the island, and I think, I just think, that it's all going to hell. The other dimension doesn't erase everything that happened, and everything the characters have been through, it just is one the consequences, and maybe even the happy end (not THE happy ending but A happy ending) and maybe it feel like a filler and I agree that it's a stretch on a last season, but...
they know what they're fucking doing!

Anyway, that was my point.

Posted by: rg at March 18, 2010 5:37 AM

This is making my head hurt in all sorts of ways:
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20352243_8,00.html

Daniel Faraday is FLocke? Whoa.

Posted by: Scully at March 18, 2010 8:39 AM

rg, I don't know if you're a guy or a girl, but I want to marry you and live happily ever after.

Jesse M. - Miles did say Charlotte worked at the museum with his dad. I think it's safe to assume he means Pierre Chang. There has also been evidence that he made it off the island, in the form of online videos and Comic Con features. Not that that makes it canon, but I think it's safe to assume.

Figs - Richard began testing Locke because Locke told him he was destined to be the Other's Leader, back when they were time jumping. Richard didn't quite understand how exactly this would come about, so he began visiting and testing the young Locke to confirm the adult Locke's prediction. It had nothing to do with Locke's candidacy.

Also, just because someone's a cop, it doesn't necessarily mean they're a goody-two shoes. Sawyer has an ulterior motive, and arresting some chick in an elevator (with whom you probably felt an inkling of unexplainable recognition) probably would have presented an unwanted hassle. And we all know Sawyer hates to be hassled.

Posted by: Kolby at March 18, 2010 9:32 AM

monkeyman, that timeline was fun, but I have to give credit to Stacey, because she posted that in Pajiba Love last week sometime.

figgy, Richard visiting Locke was not a result of Locke being a candidiate. During the time travel, Locke wanted to prove he was special by suggesting Richard visit him in the real world and witness his birth.

Scully - that article was weird, and waaaaaaaay too far-fetched for me to be completely on board with (I said completely), but it was worth reading for the phrase "Abominable Faux Son"

Posted by: Patty O'Green at March 18, 2010 9:38 AM

figgy, Jacob did (or someone did) heal Juliet's sister.

Darth, Agreed. I think Ben and Richard - for that matter any of the Others with "power" - often took it upon themselves to interpret and administer actions in the name of Jacob.

I'm not thinking of the detonation as a "reset" so much, more like a split. On the island timeline, several of the survivors were close enough to the blast area and should have been dead - heck, Juliet should have been completely obliterated, so I don't think we can look at this in a sense of who should be dead because they were too close to detonation or ground zero. I do wonder if Chang is somewhere on island now.

Posted by: Cindy at March 18, 2010 10:17 AM

Cindy - but they can't die, remember? Not while they have a purpose on the island. Or whatever.

Posted by: Kolby at March 18, 2010 10:23 AM

This episode just made me wish that Josh Holloway were cast in the Rockford Files remake and not goofy ass Dermot Mulrony. Seriously can we start a campaign? Garner deserves better.

Posted by: Mebe at March 17, 2010 6:25 PM

Oh. My. God. That is a FANTASTIC idea!! Rumpled, grumpy, but sexy as all hell...oh, I'll jump on the campaign with you RIGHT NOW!!!!!

Posted by: dammitjanet at March 18, 2010 10:34 AM

This is making my head hurt in all sorts of ways:
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20313460_20352243_8,00.html

Daniel Faraday is FLocke? Whoa.

Posted by: Scully at March 18, 2010 8:39 AM

what the.....????

Posted by: dammitjanet at March 18, 2010 10:42 AM

Yeah, I know dammitjanet that one is still puzzling me.

Posted by: Scully at March 18, 2010 10:46 AM

Kolby, Kate could die, Miles could die, Juliet did die...

Posted by: Cindy at March 18, 2010 11:15 AM

Also, that EW dude is fruit loops at this point. I stopped reading a while back because he has different nonsensical theories and connections every week.

Posted by: Cindy at March 18, 2010 11:17 AM

Kolby
I totally agree with you (well not on the marriage thing. I'm a guy. And I'm not against the idea. but if you are in Paris one of th... kidding) Anyway I'm with you on the Sawyer thing, among many others.

The guy is not in search of professional achievement, he wants to find his parents' death perpetrator. To me it's clear : why would he take the risk to get killed to catch a fugitive. So thank you for pointing out, Kolby, that somehow, he feels connected with her, and want to help her.

Again, the creators know what they're doing! Fuck! They know everyone is gonna watch the whole thing again. At this point, it's hard to imagine two professional writers snorting coke and going on like this "- Eh what if Sawyer was a cop? -Yesss. Awesome. Oh no but he let Kate go. -Who cares, dude?! -Totally." Just. No! Those guys they knew all along. When they're in the elevator. The security guy/airport cop/whatever the fuck, is talking in code. And Sawyer, with a grin, says "whoo, that seems important" He's a cop. He knows what the code means. But he just decide to not give a fuck cause he's Sawyer. Also, the whole ridiculous thing about him jumping a mark is not that ridiculous. Of course they have to make the whole thing up like before, with the "Was it good for you sugarcake/sweetlips/plasticduck?" but with a twist this time. I wasn't baffled when McNulty was sandwiching two Eastern European prostitutes for the sake of his cover, so it didn't really shocked me that Sawyer, of all cops, did the same. Even if he's a cop, he still is Sawyer, and like it wasn't enough, the character has actually fucked every fuckable female character in the show (he's a bro, he wouldn't fuck Claire by respect for Charlie). Right now I'm just waiting for him to get busy with Ilana - who by the way is in fact Alex from the future. POW

Posted by: rg at March 18, 2010 12:13 PM

Is it weird that I would have rather seen more of Richard, Ms. Klugh, Mikhail, Daniel, Charlotte, Miles, the Temple people, and Ilana than Fake Locke and his mess this final season?

I like the idea of this rivalry between Jacob and Fake Locke. But I don't care that much about it. Maybe if it were introduced a couple of seasons ago (same goes with Dogen and the other Temple stuff) I would appreciate it more.

I still miss some of the older characters that seemed to have some answers. I just miss the Lost days when it was simple (ha!) and it was all about the mysterious Jacob and the impending showdown between Ben and Widmore and figuring out what the Losties had to do with it all. Widmore v. Ben. Losties v. Others. Others v. Dharma. I miss that. I don't care about Fake Locke!

It just seems like there's too much going on so late in the game.

Hopefully I'm wrong and it all makes sense in the end. Next week should be amazing. Richard!

Posted by: kayla at March 18, 2010 12:15 PM

rg - "After all, he never murdered anyone till Locke"

Did you forget about the Dharma people? Including his father? Ben killed dozens of people before Locke.

Posted by: kayla at March 18, 2010 12:25 PM

aha! well that makes sense. I tell you, I don't remember things too well ;).

I think the magic water healed Juliet's sister, not Jacob himself. Did we ever SEE Jacob do it?

Yeah, I believe the creators know what they're doing. That doesn't mean I LIKE what they're doing. However you put it, they jerk us around and like doing it, and it pisses me off. I don't like their methods, is all.

Posted by: figgy at March 18, 2010 12:26 PM

I'm not sure I think that Juliet's sister was brought to the island, dunked and then sent home all better. Nor am I sure that the temple pool is transportable holy water. I think Jacob does have some sort of ability to heal, because even though I wasn't under this impression for a long time, I think he may have brought Locke back to life after the window fall. Maybe that's also what happened with Ilana - why she feels he's like her fairy-daddyfather?

Posted by: Cindy at March 18, 2010 1:23 PM

Touché kayla, touché.

But my point was that that my questions about Lost were hurting my brain. But, the thing is, you don't know that when he says "we're the good guys" to Michael at the end of season 2. At the time, it just hit me that maybe he was right, since he wanted the kids protected and study Claire's baby. Like Juliet said afterwards "[Ethan] had to improvise". So it made me think about how much the survivors were violent and kind of agressive towards the Others.

Anyways even though I made my position clear regarding my trust in Kitsis, Horowitz, Lindelof and Cuse, figgy, you make a hell of an AngryFan©.

Posted by: rg at March 18, 2010 1:27 PM

Do people really still think I'm a guy? Maybe I should spend more time here.

Posted by: Kolby at March 18, 2010 1:28 PM

I think you're studly Kolbs. Call me sometime.

Posted by: Cindy at March 18, 2010 1:31 PM

I didn't assume you were a guy, au contraire. I'm just not that into marriage is all.

And frankly, you be a guy or a girl, Kolby, it doesn't matter, I'm french, that's how we roll.

Posted by: rg at March 18, 2010 1:40 PM

Kolby is a chick, rg. A hot, hot chick. Also, I feel as though I can hear your French accent in your posts, and that is hot. Therefore, I challenge Kolby to a duel for your affections. Pistols at dawn, woman!

Posted by: Anna von SPARKLEbeaverpuppet at March 18, 2010 1:42 PM

You're such a slut AvB.

Posted by: Cindy at March 18, 2010 1:46 PM

...and now I see your last comment.

KOLBY, I WILL FIGHT YOU TO THE DEATH.

Posted by: Anna von SPARKLEbeaverpuppet at March 18, 2010 1:47 PM

But...but... Cindy, he's FRENCH! Plus, this:

And frankly, you be a guy or a girl, Kolby, it doesn't matter, I'm french, that's how we roll.

*faint*

Posted by: Anna von SPARKLEbeaverpuppet at March 18, 2010 1:50 PM

French dudes probably keep lots of bread and cheese on hand, right? And wine?

Hug your loved ones, AvSb, 'cause it is ON.

Posted by: Kolby at March 18, 2010 2:38 PM

man - ... talk about synchronicity..
was channel surfing.. just saw alex..as a tween.
on a malcom in the middle rerun..

her name is... tania raymonde...
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0713389/

freaky deeeeeky!

Posted by: kikz at March 18, 2010 2:45 PM

Oh please, like nationality has anything to do with it. If he's swinging, AvB is tingling.

Posted by: Cindy at March 18, 2010 3:26 PM

OK, now I want to marry Cindy.

Posted by: Kolby at March 18, 2010 3:27 PM

I just dread having this show ultimately be a six season long TV version of "Lost Highway": lots of cool scenes and good acting with a weird and very vague quasi-plot that doesn't make any sense regardless of how many times you watch it or how hard you concentrate.

Posted by: Dr. Remulak at March 18, 2010 4:59 PM

Yeah, I tend to get way too emotional for this show. To say the least..

I still love the hell out of this show. BECAUSE it gets me so worked up. Bastards.

Posted by: figgy at March 18, 2010 8:06 PM

The general consensus seems to be that the alternate (LAX) scenes are subsequent to the Incident/'70s timetravel/A-bomb, which led to the island disappearing/Jacob never stalking the Losties.

I enjoy the idea that these flashes are instead the result of whatever happens at the END of the series. That we are being fed non-linear streams of narrative which will in the end converge, somewhat like the film Memento.

Although unfortunately, knowing Lost, it is within the realm of possibility that what happens at the end of the series could well BE the incident in the '70s.

=sigh=

Posted by: tiggyT at March 18, 2010 9:06 PM

Anyone would be lucky to be married to you Kolby. Why the cookies alone...!

Posted by: Cindy at March 18, 2010 10:15 PM

I don't think the finale is going to feature any flash backs, flash forwards, flash sideways, none of it. I think these last episodes are about wrapping up the character growth (or lack of) and putting the final pieces in place. I think the ending is going to be primarily a real time island based battle between the forces of Jacob and the Enemy.

No one else wondered what "mother" Flocke was talking about? I started racking my brain for Greek or Egyptian mythology and couldn't think of a crazy mother that would banish a son. Then I was thinking something Bible based, possible Cain and Abel but Adam and Eve were already banished from Eden by then. Confused but still intrigued.

I thought the episode was outstanding, and did a good job answering some issues. It made clear that Sawyer and Kate DID NOT choose to be with Flocke. They are running their own game and the choice they made(LOST is always and foremost about choice) is going to become important.

Widmore is not on anyone's side. He wants the island and will kill them all to get it. The question is, who's side will Jack and Ilana's crew fall to in the end?

Posted by: TylerDFC at March 20, 2010 8:09 AM

Tyler seems to be on the right track! I also believe that none of the characters in the alter-verse will be Jacob's replacement. If the island is gone, why do you need to replace Jacob?
Flocke has no intention of getting anybody but himself off the island. He's not taking a boat, a plane or a submarine...
Jacob wants Flocke to believe that "man" can make the right choices (not being selfish), Flocke has had it with the "game", why save them when they will repeatedly doom themselves, he wants OUT - period. The candidates hold the key to his escape (which is why he needs them alive, to a point, as much as Jacob needs them). Jacob AND Flocke keep things in "balance" - and Widmore wants the whole deal (perhaps, as mentioned) or maybe seeking redemption - we'll see. When the plan was hatched to nuke the island, Richard had time to warn the "Others" and maybe flee. You think Widmore decided to stay put?

Posted by: tswarm at March 20, 2010 6:14 PM

Thank you, Tyler, for bringing the thread back to sound theories. I'm glad somebody else thought Flocke's mother was a huge deal. Oddly enough, my first thought was Romulus and Remus, but I don't think it holds much water. You'd think they would have used the wolf somewhere before.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at March 20, 2010 6:31 PM

Maybe that's where Vincent comes in.

Posted by: kayla at March 20, 2010 7:24 PM

Vincent the dog could just be another representation of Jacob. Or,in a twist, vice versa!

Vincent the Dog *is* the absolute overlord of this entire universe, Jacob & MIB merely his pawns!

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