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Haunted

By Daniel Carlson | Posted Under Lost Recaps | Comments (117)



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Things are definitely cooking now. There are only a handful of episodes left now before “Lost” calls it quits, and the fact that this week’s “Everybody Loves Hugo” (a twist on the second season’s “Everybody Hates Hugo”) was a strong episode that aired after an even stronger one makes me optimistic that things will be amped-up and on their game through the end. Then again, it says a lot about a show when I get excited over two consecutive non-crappy episodes, so I don’t want to get my hopes too high. Then again, this season’s actually been good overall except for the Jin/Sun ep a couple weeks back, so maybe I shouldn’t let that weak spot spoil everything. A lot of good stuff happened this week, so let’s get to it.

The Los Angeles Timeline
Hurley is at an awards dinner getting a paleontology wing of a history museum named after him, and a slideshow plays to remind everyone of his financial success with Mr. Cluck’s Chicken Shack and his seemingly endless altruism. The narrator and man presenting the award is Dr. Chang because why not, everyone has to be somewhere so he might as well be here. However, even with his successes and awards, Hurley steal has to deal with a rotten, manipulative mother who exists solely to grate on the viewer’s nerves. Not even the nod to “Seinfeld” about Hurley’s upcoming award from the Human Fund could distract me from his mother’s cheap ploys. She wants to find him a girlfriend because the script wants her to, and she’s hell-bent to do it, so she tells Hurley that he’s got a blind date coming up.

At the restaurant days later, Hurley eats alone, stood up but stubbornly refusing to believe it when a woman walks up and calls his name: It’s Libby. She tells him she’s not his blind date, but he invites her to sit and gets out an awkward compliment or two. She takes his hands and asks if he believes in soul mates, and not getting the response she hoped for, breaks a little when she says, “You don’t remember me, do you?” So she’s already aware of the “real”/crash timeline, which means her burgeoning relationship with Hurley will eventually cause him to remember it, too. At the start of the episode, I guessed this would happen with a kiss, and I was not wrong. But I’m not necessarily complaining about the execution, either. It was simple, sweet, and got the job done by eventually waking Hurley up to the other world.

Anyway, Libby tries to talk to Hurley but is led away by Dr. Brooks, Hurley’s doctor in the original timeline, and Hurley follows them outside to see them all load up in a van labeled Santa Rosa Mental Health Institute. Despondent that his new crush is wacko, Hurley heads to a Mr. Cluck’s and orders a bucket, which come on, even in his state, the CEO doesn’t go to the restaurant and pig out after a bad date. (Randomly, Samm Levine plays the cashier, which is a big [to me] guest star to get for a quickie role. Either they bring him around again, or Levine really needed the work. Maybe offers dried up when he saw his role in Inglourious Basterds cut to just one line.) He dives head first into the bucket like a sad bastard when Desmond walks up, still sporting a small wound on his head from the car accident with Charlie. Desmond strikes up a conversation about remembering Hurley from Oceanic 815, and Hurley eventually opens up that he’s depressed because the girl he likes is “crazy” and claims to remember him from another world. Desmond, mission-oriented and determined to get everyone else to learn what he knows about their flimsy reality, encourages Hurley to go after the girl and find out why she thinks they know each other. After that, he picks up his to-go order (No. 42, of course), and heads out.

Hurley goes to see Libby, buying his way past the doctor’s reservations by dropping a $100,000 donation for a new rec room. He asks to hear her story, and she tells him how she saw him on TV and suddenly had a wave of flashbacks of “another life” that included things like a plane crash and a deserted island. Hurley still doesn’t remember or recognize anything, but he likes being with her, and after some low-level flirtation and finding out that Libby’s there voluntarily, he asks her out. She says yes, more out of what she remembers them experiencing than any particular spark happening now.

Later, Hurley and Libby head to the beach for a picnic, which gives her understandably weird feelings because of the whole almost-dying-in-a-plane-crash thing, but she gets over it. She’s more struck by the déjà vu, saying it’s like they’re on “a date we never had.” Hurley expresses more doubt that anyone like her would want him, which is when she kisses him and some of his memories of the island and the crash timeline come flooding back. He’s spooked by the experience, but able to comfort Libby with the knowledge that she’s not crazy. This is his mirror image’s job: In the original timeline, everyone told Hurley he was crazy, so here, he gets to relieve someone else of that worry. The camera shifts to reveal that Desmond has been watching them from his car, and seeing them together, he appears satisfied that his plan is working, and drives away.

Desmond’s next Oceanic passenger to visit is John Locke, so he parks near Locke’s school to watch him, a practice that gets him a visit from a suspicious Ben, who walks up and wants to know why Desmond is hanging outside a school in a luxury sedan. Desmond buys him off with a story about looking for a school for his son, but it barely works. As Ben walks off, Desmond watches Locke wheel by, which is when he starts the car, guns the engine, and runs Locke down before speeding off. Locke flies up and hits the car before rolling off, and Ben and a crowd of others rush to his aid. I get that Desmond wants to help the Oceanic people remember the original timeline, and that this is often done via extreme emotional experiences, but was this necessary? Or is Desmond, knowing the role Locke plays in aiding the Man in Black in the other world, trying to actually kill Locke here in hopes of harming or affecting the other timeline?

The Island Timeline
Hurley’s at Libby’s grave, which he only visits in times of extreme duress/when the plot calls for it. Ilana tells him they’re going to head to the Black Rock to get dynamite to blow up the Ajira plane, and Hurley tells her briefly about his almost-relationship with Libby that was ended by her murder. After she walks away, Hurley hears a swarm of ghostly whispers and looks up to see none other than Mercutio Michael standing there. Michael says he’s there to stop Hurley “from getting everyone killed,” though when Jack walks up to get Hurley, Michael disappears.

Back down on the beach, Ilana is already back with the dynamite (one of the biggest edits for time compression ever, and a huge change compared with the first-season trek to get to the Black Rock for the same stuff), but Hurley’s now questioning her plan and trying to slow things down in the hopes that he’ll be able to change things and protect everyone. Ilana reminds him about Jacob’s will and Richard’s leadership and blah blah when BAM, she drops the dynamite and is blown into a million little pieces of Arzt that come raining down on everyone. As my friend Kiala put it, “That island does not like sassy Latinas.” I can’t believe I actually let the show lull me into another lengthy conversation to distract me from the possibility that someone would get their ass detonated, only to go ahead and do it when I didn’t expect it.

Hurley goes through what I’m guessing is Ilana’s stuff, finding a Russian copy of Dostoevsky’s Notes From Underground as well as a pouch containing … something. Maybe the ashes from the fire Ilana gathered at the statue? Whatever it is, it seems to strengthen Hurley’s resolve in guiding the group’s actions. While Jack and Richard bicker over the potential dangers of getting even more old and unstable dynamite, Hurley walks up and is suddenly gung-ho for the trip. He persuades Jack that it’s the thing to do, so the group — at this point Hurley, Jack, Richard, Ben, Frank, and Sun — sets off for the Black Rock.

As they trek through the jungle, Ben ruminates on the way Ilana seemed to die after she’d served her purpose of protecting Jacob (which she kinda tanked) and telling the candidates about their potential fates. “The island was done with her,” he says. Ben is bad at pep talks. When they all arrive at the wrecked ship, Richard notices Hurley isn’t around, which means Hurley has gotten 7,000% better at being sneaky in the past day. They hear him shouting and turn to see him running frantically toward them and away from the ship, which promptly blows up. Richard is not at all happy about this, or with Hurley’s simple defense of his actions with the statement, “I’m protecting us.” Hurley tells Miles that he’s working on orders from Michael, who’s “one of the people who come back and yell at me after they die,” adding that “dead people are more reliable than alive people.”

Richard wants to head to the Barracks to get old grenades and explosives so they can stay on mission, but Hurley says they should go talk to Locke instead. (He refers to him as Locke because it’s easier for them to use the dead man’s name than to ascribe characteristics to the weird monster pretending to be him.) Hurley claims to be on orders from Jacob and points to an empty spot next to Richard as if Jacob’s right there, but it’s clearly a bluff because we usually get to see Jacob when the camera shows us Hurley’s point of view, and we don’t see him this time. Richard calls the bluff and tells Hurley to ask Jacob what the island is, but Hurley saunters over and quietly says he has nothing to prove to Richard and will be doing what he wants regardless. I am really liking the assertive Hurley. Richard tells everyone else that Hurley’s lying because “Jacob never talks to us,” and Miles and Ben opt to go with him to the Barracks. That leaves Hurley, Jack, Sun, and Frank together to go find the Man in Black.

On their way there, Hurley admits to Jack that he was faking the whole Jacob thing, but Jack knew and went along with it because he’s been trying to let other people lead ever since his actions wound up killing Juliet. The whispers come back, but Hurley is calm as he walks away into the jungle to encounter Michael once again. Hurley’s figured out and gets confirmation that Michael’s spirit is among the whispers because he’s one of those who can’t move on and leave the island after death because of what they did. So what did Michael do that keeps him there? Was it the deaths he caused when the freighter blew up? Anyway, there’s not much Hurley can do for him, but Michael does ask a favor: If Hurley sees Libby again, he wants Hurley to apologize for what Michael did.

So that’s what happens with that crew. Meanwhile, backtracking a bit to catch up with the Man in Black, he’s chilling at his camp and carving on a big stick when Sayid strolls in. MIB blows off his boring conversation with Sawyer and Kate to head with Sayid into the jungle, where he finds Desmond tied to a tree but oddly complacent about his state of affairs. Desmond placidly says he has nowhere to run, so MIB cuts him free and proceeds to ask him questions about why he’s there and what Widmore’s up to. Desmond says he doesn’t know Widmore’s plan, but that the old man did blast him with a ton of electromagnetism; when pressed, Desmond says he knew it was electromagnetism from the “experience” that followed. There’s something about the way Desmond identifies MIB as John Locke that feels off for both parties, so it’s no surprise that MIB takes him for a private walk into the jungle.

While they’re out there, they both see the young boy that likes to show up and freak MIB’s shit right out, but MIB pissily says to ignore him, so they press on. By night, they arrive at a giant well in a clearing, and its location makes it a different one than the well that led Locke down to the frozen wheel chamber a billion years ago, though similar in design and (apparently) purpose. MIB tells Desmond that the wells were built by hand a long time ago by people confused by how parts of the island made their compass needles spin around, causing them to dig for answers. He gives Desmond the hard sell about Widmore being power hungry, but gets irked when he realizes Desmond isn’t more afraid of being alone in the jungle with no one knowing how to find him. “What is the point in being afraid?” Desmond asks. In reply, MIB shoves him into the well, sending him tumbling into the dark. The Man in Black does not mess around.

He heads back to camp to tell Sayid their problem is taken care of, and he’s not there a minute when Hurley walks in and nervously but calmly organizes a cease-fire with the Man in Black and gets permission for his group to come in without being harmed. MIB passes over his knife to Hurley and gives his word, so Hurley signals his gang and everybody slips out from between the trees. There are a few awkward glances passed around, mainly from Kate, but the big one is when the Man in Black greets Jack with a friendly hello. It took me a moment to remember — a lot’s happened on this show — but this is the first time Jack’s seen the Enemy as Locke since carting Locke’s corpse onto the Ajira flight, hence his disorientation. No telling where they’ll go from there.

And that’s that. Again, tons of stuff happening in this one, including the death by disintegration of a semi-major supporting character of the past year. I also like the way the episode casually revealed the truth behind the whispers. In addition to being a realistic portrayal at the way real-life secrets are almost always anticlimactic when discovered, it’s a good reminder that many of the show’s major mysteries will likely be solved in similarly average ways. Also, I have no idea what fate awaits Desmond at the bottom of that well, but death seems highly unlikely given the way he’s been elevated to key status with last week’s episode, plus the fact that a character like that would get a big good-bye. I wonder what’s down there, though: another frozen time wheel? Something similar? Did the Man in Black have anything to gain from tossing him down there other than the knowledge that he’s screwing with Widmore’s plan? In the L.A. timeline, how many of the Oceanic survivors will find each other and start “remembering” the other world before something major occurs as a result? Will the players in one timeline eventually be able to affect those in the other, or is it more of a passive/observational thing? And really: What’s with Ilana’s Russian literature? She was in a Russian hospital when Jacob visited her. Will we ever find that out, or will it be lost to the folds of time?

Also, forgive me if you’ve seen this elsewhere or if it’s made the rounds on Pajiba Love, but even if it’s not new to you, it’s still enjoyable:

Lost vs. Saul Bass from Hexagonall on Vimeo.

Daniel Carlson is the managing editor of Pajiba and a member of the Houston Film Critics Society, as well as a TV blogger for the Houston Press. You can visit his blog, Slowly Going Bald.









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Comments

*ahem*

FRIST

...Okay, got that out of the way.

Here is what kept me awake ALL last night: Why is Alt-Desmond doing those things he's doing, and where is he getting his information? Does he hear voices? Can Alt-Desmond somehow access the Island timeline? WTF?

And now to read the recap, which I know will be awesome, as always.

Posted by: Jerce at April 14, 2010 11:41 AM

I can’t believe I actually let the show lull me into another lengthy conversation to distract me from the possibility that someone would get their ass detonated, only to go ahead and do it when I didn’t expect it.

You didn't see that coming? She was being hella reckless with that bag of dynamite. I was practically counting it down in head...

Posted by: Patty O'Green at April 14, 2010 11:41 AM

Dan - Michael murdered Ana Lucia and Libby. That's what he did to trap his soul on the island.

Posted by: Kolby at April 14, 2010 11:44 AM

when pressed, Desmond says he knew it was electromagnetism from the “experience” that followed.

I understood it differently. Smocke asked him how he knew it was electromagnetism, and his answer implied he recognized it "from experience", as in the Hatch blow-up or the bubble around the Island on the way to the freighter. Did anybody else hear it that way?

Posted by: Patty O'Green at April 14, 2010 11:46 AM

And why do I think it was established somewhere that Ilana was Ukrainian? She definitely was not a Latina.

Posted by: Kolby at April 14, 2010 11:49 AM

That's exactly how I heard it, Patty - from the hatch blowing up.

Posted by: Kolby at April 14, 2010 11:50 AM

Also, did anyone else thing Hurley having his own paleontology wing in the museum would include some subtle nod to the Hurley-bird? I had my fingers crossed, just a teeninsy bit.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at April 14, 2010 11:50 AM

Ilana was ridiculous and predictable. I think I'll throw water bottles on 200 year old dynamite in my bag and then throw that bag on the ground! This idea is way smarter than using grenades! And of course I'll be standing alone! Might as well take her out with a stray bullet.
Shame on Ben for blaming that on the Island. If the Island doesn't reward stupidity, good for it.
So Desmond is the Island's Cupid. Des ran over Locke so he'll remember Island time, but I don't know if it will be right away or when Locke meets Jack in the hospital. Or Des ran him over so Jack will fix his spine. Based on what Faraday said it should be the former. Or both.

V can suck raptor dick.

Posted by: Stew at April 14, 2010 11:51 AM

It's like they're trying to piss me off. I'm super-angry that they killed off Ilana, especially in such a dumb, pointless, shock-value way. She'll probably show up again as a ghost, but still, she didn't deserve that. I liked her.

And Desmond running down Locke... This show has always been difficult to predict, but now it's like they're going out of their way to give us absolutely NOTHING to hold on to. If we weren't so close to the end I would seriously be thinking about throwing in the towel.

Posted by: Todd at April 14, 2010 11:52 AM

@Kolby: Weirdly, I gave him a pass for that, if only because (a) he was batshit insane for Walt and (b) if he didn't cap Ana Lucia, I was going to. Plus I figured mass murder via the freighter explosion was more damning, in a way. But you're right.

Now I'm trying to remember who else has committed murder and would risk being stuck there if they died. Ben, Sawyer, who else?

Posted by: Daniel Carlson at April 14, 2010 11:53 AM

...when pressed, Desmond says he knew it was electromagnetism from the “experience” that followed.
That's not how I read it. Desmond knew what it was because he'd experienced it before--at the Hatch, when Locke didn't enter the numbers on time. In fact, according to Widmore last week, that is why Desmond is able to survive the bombardment; he'd survived it once before.

Also: that kid in the jungle was NOT the same kid we've seen before. The earlier kid was blonde and dressed in white/light-colored clothing (also, bloody). Last night's kid was dark-haired and completely different.
However, I did find it intriguing that Locke was just as upset upon seeing this kid as he was when he saw the blonde one. I have no idea what it means.

Posted by: Jerce at April 14, 2010 11:53 AM

The one thing that is really starting to bother me this season is that it starting to feel a lot more plot driven and a lot less character driven. This season is a series of things happening to frustrate/ confuse the audience and (hopefully) eventually tie together into some ultimate conclusion.

The problem I have is that a lot of the action is lazy and unmotivated. For one thing, there are just way too many characters (not to mention timelines) at this point and the responsibility of keeping all those balls in the air is really starting to get away from the writers. And none of the characters are acting in a logical, consistent way. They just sit around like deactivated video game characters who aren't on your team at the moment. In the early seasons it was understandable (frustrating, but understandable) that everyone was mistrustful and kept everything a secret. But by now my suspension of disbelief is about at the breaking point as to why these characters (especially Jack, Ben, Richard, and Hurley) don't just sit down, compare notes about what they know about the island & Jacob, and determine the best way to go forward. But no, even though that would serve the characters it wouldn't serve the plot, so we get neutered cameo Jack instead of rational leader Jack, and Ben and Richard stay aloof and mysterious and then get frustrated that no one is working together or listening to them.

I still watch, and the show has built up enough goodwill and investment of my time that I am still dying to see what happens next, but I think the big disappointment for me is that it has lost the character-interest roots that made Lost such a great show. Now it's just a series of events and mysteries being teased and revealed, but no heart.

Posted by: Yossarian at April 14, 2010 11:54 AM

WAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLTTTTTTTTTTT!!!

Ahem. Carry on.

Posted by: Melody at April 14, 2010 11:55 AM

I love Desmond.

... thats all I really have to say. Carry on.

Posted by: bubblegumshoe at April 14, 2010 11:56 AM

I believe the two kids are one and the same, just this one is older.

Posted by: Stew at April 14, 2010 11:56 AM

If she hadn't blown up, I would've been pissed. We got a big lecture from the science teacher about how unstable the stuff was before he blew up, and yet we see character after character stopping by the Black Rock whenever they've got some explodin' to do. Maybe because they were "candidates", they were immune to any real danger, but it was still annoying. And here Ilana was tossing that bag around like all it carried was a sack lunch. Girlfriend was asking for it.

Desmond running Locke over was a real jaw-dropper, though. I'm not sure what he thought it would accomplish, but he seems fairly sure of himself, at least enough so that he isn't worried that he could totally be identified by Ben or that anyone there would take down his license plate number. Gunning down a handicapped guy is bound to get him some attention.

But I HATED that the whispers were explained as the ghosts of people trapped on the island who "couldn't move on". The purgatory theory has been tossed around by fans for years, and the creators have vehemently denied it. Sounds to me like they just confirmed it. I don't like bullshit, dudes.

And I don't know who Rosalita is but she's a total bitch for standing up Hurley.

Posted by: DeadBessie at April 14, 2010 11:59 AM

Hee... I was thinking to myself that Ilana was slamming those water bottles into the dynamite bag awful hard when KABLOOEY. It was shocking for a brief nano second and then it just pissed me off. She had just made the point that everything would be okay because she had been training for this her whole life. Well, she sure coulda fooled me.

Posted by: elsie at April 14, 2010 11:59 AM

Now I'm trying to remember who else has committed murder and would risk being stuck there if they died.

Kate.

Jin? I don't know that he actually murdered anyone himself when working for Mr. Paik. And what about Sun's secret lover that got tossed out the window? Could either of them be held responsible for that? Jack killed his patient, how does the Island feel about that?

Posted by: Anna von Murderpuppet at April 14, 2010 12:03 PM

I don't think the island is Purgatory, for those who died or for anyone else. Michael said he was trapped there, not that he was there waiting to serve some penance until he's allowed to go to Heaven. The island judged him and trapped his sould based on his actions while on the island. Remember that nothing they did before coming to the island matters. Not to the island anyway.

And I have to believe Ilana will be back. Zuliehka Robinson gave an interview some months back where she seemed certain that we'd learn both why her character was in that Russian hospital and why she "arrested" Sayid and brought him on the Ajira flight. She also gave her character's last name in that interview, or what she thought the last name was.

Posted by: Kolby at April 14, 2010 12:08 PM

@Anna von Murderpuppet

Committed murder in their lifetime, or committed murder on the island? I thought Michael was stuck in island-purgatory specifically because of his on-island crimes. I don't see Kate or Sawyer or other "murderers" destined to be stuck there as island voices, but if you kill an innocent person on the island like Michael did...

Posted by: Yossarian at April 14, 2010 12:09 PM

Also, I agree with Dan re: the "revelation" of the whispers (although I've thought since season 1 that it was their own voices in different timelines, which Sawyer hearing them when he was watching Kate and Claire birthing Aaron in the jungle seemed to back up).

I'm so happy that Hurley and Libby finally got their date, by the way. And although Desmond driving over Locke was pretty well telegraphed, it was still pretty shocking. I thought Ilana pulling an Arzt was as well, and i didn't dislike it. I was not that fond of Ilana, though, so that may be a contributing factor.

Also, I got really excited for a second when Sun came out of the trees into "Locke"'s camp, and was looking around for Jin, and then remembered that Jin is off with Widmore. DAMN.

Posted by: Anna von Murderpuppet at April 14, 2010 12:09 PM

I thought it was the same kid just older.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at April 14, 2010 12:10 PM

Yeah, I don't know, Yoss. I was just trying to remember who'd killed anyone in re: Dan's query.

Posted by: Anna von Murderpuppet at April 14, 2010 12:10 PM

The creepy jungle kid def looked like the same person that Sawyer saw, just with darker hair (maybe older). LOVED his creepy smile when MIB got pissy.

Posted by: alex at April 14, 2010 12:12 PM

With each episode I become more convinced that IF they reset the island with people taking over the roles of Jacob and MIB, Hugo will be the new Richard.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at April 14, 2010 12:19 PM

Also, Michael could be lying, or at least half telling the truth. He might be Smokey, and then he'd be honest about being trapped... but it would explain why he doesn't want the plane blown up.

Posted by: Stew at April 14, 2010 12:23 PM

Now I'm trying to remember who else has committed murder and would risk being stuck there if they died. Ben, Sawyer, who else?

Definitely Sayid. Probably Eloise.

I for one was shocked, SHOCKED, when Ilana blew up. I really didn't see that coming. Didn't ever care for her though, so no big deal to me.

My penchant for black humor made me really enjoy the scene where Desmond runs down Locke. I thought it was hilarious. But only because I'm confident that Locke will be fine, will connect with other 815 people due to this, yadda yadda. I'm also confident that Desmond will be fine in the well and am now curious about what he's going to find down there.

Posted by: katy at April 14, 2010 12:24 PM

You know, in a way you could say that Sayid is already trapped on the island, he's just still in corporeal form. Once MIB is done with him it's to the voices for sure.

Posted by: katy at April 14, 2010 12:25 PM

Kinda sucks that for all of the manipulation of Michael by the Others, pushing him to kill Libby & Ana-Lucia & free Ben in order to get Walt back, there was virtually no point. The Others weren't absolute evil after all, Walt got written off the show, Michael been dead, & Ben's now kicking around with the remaining LOSTies. Just sayin', that's 4 characters taken off the show via a pretty stupid plot thread. Although, I definitely froze when Michael started blasting fools, that was a shocker.

Posted by: the new transported man at April 14, 2010 12:29 PM

I think the big disappointment for me is that it has lost the character-interest roots that made Lost such a great show. Now it's just a series of events and mysteries being teased and revealed, but no heart.

I know just what you mean, Yoss, and it is this logic that makes me so angry when people get pissy over "filler episodes". Those are usually the ones that are character driven, not story driven, and I like them almost more.

I believe the two kids are one and the same, just this one is older.

My mother thought the same thing, Stew, but I'm not buying it. Not yet, at least.

Dead Bessie, I feel you on the license plate thing. Someone on Lostpedia called the plates a continuity error, because they were different in that scene from the beach scene. I kind of think he switched cars, actually, for to run down the cripple.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at April 14, 2010 12:31 PM

I feel very, very bad for Sayid. I don't see a happy outcome for that character, and it makes me sad. However, I am holding out hope that Sayid may still have some noble/important act left to do before his end.

Thinking about Locke's arc also still makes me very sad. Poor Locke deserved so much better than his fate. However, Terry O'Quinn is kicking ASS every goddamn week, so that stings a bit less than it otherwise might.

Posted by: Jerce at April 14, 2010 12:31 PM

No, I'm with jerce. The kid last night really put me in mind of a mini-MIB whereas the other kid was blond and more Jacob-y.

Posted by: tob at April 14, 2010 12:32 PM

maybe locke will be the new MIB but without all the smoky evilness. MIB can't leave Locke's body. Desmond is forcing Locke's consciousness to go back to the Island so his consciousness will over take MIB's.

maybe their consciousnesses will merge?

locke definitely looked like he had some sort of revelation when he got hit by the car. maybe the impact of the car reminded him of the impact of the plane? since the plane crash and subsequently being able to walk is the most significant thing that happened to locke on the island, maybe desmond was trying to trigger that feeling? turn him back into a man of faith?

is consciousnesses even a word?

i'm rambling.

locke is the new MIB, but a nice one... or one controlled by locke's goodness.
Desmond isn't afraid because he knows cool Desmond in a suit is working to fix shit in the sideways timeline.
jack is the new jacob.
or maybe jack is the new richard and hugo is the new jacob.

and everyone lives happily ever after.

i don't know. as i said. i'm rambling.

Posted by: stopthemadness at April 14, 2010 12:33 PM

RE ”Ben is bad at pep talks."

That's an understatement.

I actually missed this episode, because I was at work, so thanks as always for the rundown.

I don't really try to figure out what the fuck is going on anymore, I still enjoy the ride.

Obviously, it's supposed to be some big good vs. evil thing, plus they intend the concept of choice to be prominent (which is why they've had numerous characters say, "There's always a choice."). Basically, people can be forced to consider a group of choices based on circumstances beyond their control (plane crash, being thrown out a window, etc.), but the choice of what to do is always theirs. No one else to blame. Also, love is good and all that jazz.

The time travel bullshit is just a way of juicing it up, so it's science fiction instead of a soap opera.

Posted by: Slash at April 14, 2010 12:34 PM

i think des hit locke with his car, so locke'll wind up back under jack's care, who will then finally have the chance to fix his back & let him walk again. really liked the scene between ben & des-totally cracked me up.
it made sense for dr chang to give hurley the award-it was for the new wing of the musuem, where dr chang works. surprised we didn't see charlotte in the audience, as she works there too.
loved seeing libby back, altho i thought most of the hurley stuff was pretty cheesy-especially when he was goo-gooing to ilana about libby being murdered. think they were trying to spell things out for people who'd forgotten.
i was intrigued by desmond saying that locke was locke...i think there's more to that....
i definitely think the bag hurley grabbed from ilana's stash was the ashes of jacob. that teenager who was following locke & des must be jacob too.
locke totally feeds on fear & i think recognized that des is enlightened now, which poses more of a threat b/c he can't control him & may help the others to see that there's nothing to fear, thus losing his grip over them all.
i thought the way the revealed the secret of the whispers was lame, altho i did love when miles was like, 'you trust/listen to dead people?'

Posted by: mrs keamy at April 14, 2010 12:34 PM

"I also like the way the episode casually revealed the truth behind the whispers. In addition to being a realistic portrayal at the way real-life secrets are almost always anticlimactic when discovered, it’s a good reminder that many of the show’s major mysteries will likely be solved in similarly average ways."
Daniel Carlson

I'll give you the casual part Dan, but are you really cool with "average"? To me, it just feels like they're trying to let the air out of everything. What's been fun about this show is the way the theories fly from every little thing. The fans (we fans) glob onto each little bit and piece trying to fit it together -- the entire show is one big puzzle.

But like you said -- the show keeps turning it around and saying "nope, no big deal."

I think (without malice) that the producers got into the habit of putting "weird stuff" all over the place, on the off chance that they would need "room for expansion" later on, and now that they have the end the show, they have to keep admitting "that wasn't really a bid thing after all," that ominously inviting door leads only to another dead end.

I remain confident that something will be a big deal, sooner or later.

Posted by: Kosmic Koyote at April 14, 2010 12:37 PM

I thought the episode didn't do a good enough job of tying things together. With the amount of episodes left they really need to get their story straight. Did anybody else notice the way Smocke looked at Jack when he came out of the Jungle with Hurley? To me, it was like MIB wanted to get Jack....just an observation. Also I though the boy in the jungle was the same kid, just older.

I do believe Desmond ran over Locke so he would see Jack again....which will probably awaken locke to the alternate time line.

Oh and by the way Ilana had it coming with the dynamite. I don't care how old it is...you handle it with care!

Posted by: Doug at April 14, 2010 12:40 PM

Sorry Jerce, but imdb says it's the same child actor playing in both episodes. He obviously looks different, and that probably means something too.

Anybody think that the boy could be Charlie (Desmond's son)? And when he said "you can't kill him" he really meant Desmond?

Posted by: alex at April 14, 2010 12:53 PM

another episode with almost no Kate. Awesome. Please keep that going.

Posted by: ponch at April 14, 2010 12:55 PM

I think all the creepy island kids we've seen so far have been played by the same actor. I could be wrong, though.

Also, Michael could be lying, or at least half telling the truth. He might be Smokey, and then he'd be honest about being trapped... but it would explain why he doesn't want the plane blown up.

He couldn't have been MIB, since MIB cannot take the form of anyone other than John Locke at this point. It was most definitely Michael. And I was touched by the revelation that the Whispers have been the voices of souls trapped on the island. People who have nothing left to do but to observe the living, and hope they are able to help them, maybe through someone like Hurley who can not only hear them, but also see and communicate with them. If you get a chance to read the Whisper Transcripts, you should. They're very interesting.

Posted by: Kolby at April 14, 2010 12:57 PM

Hm, Jack and Locke being each other's constants is interesting. Also, I guess that's why Juliet had to die, so that Kate and Sawyer are each other's constants. Though I am still holding out hope that Sawyer and Juliet will go Dutch in LAX timeline. They were so much better together.

Re the bag that Hurley picked up, I thought (from the way he looked in it, I suppose) that it was the bag of diamonds from Nikki and Paolo. Ha! Durr.

Re the kid, I thought it was supposed to be a different kid, presumably (if we are working under the assumption that the blond kid was child-Jacob or somesuch) child-MiB.

Posted by: Anna von Murderpuppet at April 14, 2010 1:00 PM

RE: the bag Hurley picked up- some people have suggested that the bag contained Jacob's ashes (as scooped up by Ilana) but I distinctly remember hearing something stones when Hurley moved the bag. Which stones? Are they like the one that Jacob gave to Richard to give to MIB? Are they the stones found on Adam and Eve waayyyy back when?

Posted by: alex at April 14, 2010 1:03 PM

I really hated that they killed Ilana. She was really the only decent female character left on this damned show, and they killed her? Not to mention the fact that they killed maybe the one person who could give them some answers; at least ones regarding Jacob.

I do have to say that I was completely effing shocked when it happened. I mean, I should've seen it coming from the way she was so blase about the whole thing, but I didn't expect it to happen so soon. I was pretty damn surprised when Desmond got thrown in the well AND when he ran over Locke--that last was just one big what the fuck?

I do totally trust that Desmond knows what he's doing, but I have no idea HOW he knows. As someone pointed out above it's probably a way to get both Locke and Jack in on it, though to what purpose I'm still completely confused.

I'm definitely with Kolby on the "purgatory" thing. I could be wrong, but it seems like anyone that Hurley has seen after they're dead has been a murderer (certainly Ana Lucia...didn't Charlie kill someone too?). Also, let's consider that this island holds in 'evil', which would include everyone who committed murder on the Island, which would explain all that crazy whispering.

I liked this explanation. I think I've accepted that a lot of answers are not going to be super spectacular, and I kind of like it.

Posted by: figgy at April 14, 2010 1:03 PM

Anybody think that the boy could be Charlie (Desmond's son)? And when he said "you can't kill him" he really meant Desmond?

That was actually my first thought, because he looked just like him with the curly blondness.

Posted by: Anna von Murderpuppet at April 14, 2010 1:04 PM

I liked how they revealed the whispers. Makes sense and ties up that loose end.

The real WTF moment for me was Smocke shoving Desmond down the well. Is he that afraid of the power Desmond seems to have? And, in alterna-land, I truly believe Desmond ran Locke's wheeled ass down to prevent him from frukkin' with anything else in Island Time.

I kinda wondered if Hurley's paleontology wing had something to do with the statue/lighthouse/temple/etc. And I did LOOOOOVE that he and Libby finally got their date.

Um, that video is the coolest thing I've seen all day!!!

Oh, one last thing....

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALT!

Posted by: dammitjanet at April 14, 2010 1:07 PM

First, another solid episode.

@ Yossarian and Daniel
You forgot about Charlie, who killed Ethan and hasn't appeared on the island but very well did so in Santa Rosa.

Anyway, I don't know about the whole Jack/lock awekaning, I think the last frame of the episode (Locke eyes wide open) was reminiscent of the first frame of his first episode back in season 1.

If Hurley got aware of the alternate universe by kissing Libby, like Des did by touching Penny's hand, it kinda make sense that Jack would by fucking Kate (since it's escalating from touching to kissing).
BUT if it's not the case, and Locke is awaken by Jack fixing him (since he already met him and talked to him and it had no effect whatsoever - which makes me question the real purpose of Des running over Locke thus still validates the theory of Desmond trying to hurt/kill Locke to fuck with MIB) then it surely states that Kate and Sawyer both flashed in the last second of his episode, when things got physical and that Jack will be Jacob (with maybe Hurley on his side), ruling alone, and his happy ending with Kate just can't ever be.

Posted by: rg at April 14, 2010 1:08 PM

And for once I was happy that I was too late to change the channel when the previews came on. I don't think I could've taken the anxiety until next week.

Posted by: figgy at April 14, 2010 1:12 PM

...Des did by touching Penny's hand...

Desmond had his first memories when underwater after crashing his car into the Ocean with Charlie, and then his second flash of memories when inside the MRI machine. He fainted and his consciousness traveled back to the island when he finally shook Penny's hand at the stadium, but at that point he had already remembered her and little Charlie.

Methinks Alt-Universe Desmond and Island Desmond are a team.

Posted by: Kolby at April 14, 2010 1:18 PM

Methinks Alt-Universe Desmond and Island Desmond are a team.

Agreed, with his acknowledged special status and casual confidence in crazy circumstances in both timelines you have to assume 1)Desmond knows (or thinks he knows) exactly what he needs to do and 2)This knowledge is shared between LAX and island Des.

Running down Locke was a bit of a shock, but it was also a pretty obvious and expedient way of triggering a near-death experience in him. Now the question is did he have some other motivation for doing it, for example to have an effect on Smokey-Locke? And did he know that running down Locke wouldn't kill him because he sees the big picture or is it just more of that lazy writing?

'The island won't let him die' and 'the writers won't let him die' can be hard to distinguish (I just hope we aren't heading for some Stephen King-type meta-fictional island-as-author metaphore here...)

Posted by: Yossarian at April 14, 2010 1:27 PM

exactly! that's what i was rambling about.

island desmond has no fear because island desmond knows that sideways desmond is working shit out.

Posted by: stopthemadness at April 14, 2010 1:32 PM

Maybe indeed saw ghost of murderers past, like Charlie or Ana Lucia but those two he saw on the real world, so it has nothing to do with the island retaining evil.

I think The Whisperers are stuck on the island for a reason a bit more complex than that. Maybe not only because they murdered someone on the island (like Ana Lulu and Charlie) but because they are connected to it and have no longer attachments to the real world (hence Michael)

Regarding the fact that Hurley did saw murderers is contradicted by Hurley seeing a non-island-murderer (Ricardo's wife) and can be explained by the fact that Monaghan and Rodriguez were two dead characters who coincidentally killed people on the island (which is logical since the main action takes place on the island)
I personally don't believe the writers already knew when Hurley started seeing dead people that they were also murderers. Intriguing yes, but just coincidental.

Posted by: rg at April 14, 2010 1:32 PM

anyone notice the preview for next week with the Willy Wonka boat speech...

Posted by: td at April 14, 2010 1:32 PM

Now I'm trying to remember who else has committed murder and would risk being stuck there if they died.

Charlie killed Ethan. Ana Lucia killed Shannon.

Posted by: Tenis at April 14, 2010 1:34 PM

Good point rg.

Posted by: Tenis at April 14, 2010 1:39 PM

@Kolby
It's Desmond special faculties with electromagnetic fields that makes him able to not only travel trough time, as we have seen on previous episodes, but also space in last week episode.

That is why he is the only one who can do what he is currently doing. So yeah it's not the touching that triggered his first flashes - rather the déjà vu with Charlie drowning in the car - but it is what made him able firstly to search for his love/constant and consequently to connect with the two universes and go on his mission.

Posted by: rg at April 14, 2010 1:46 PM

Yeah, very good point.

Hmm. So maybe SOME are stuck there because of what they did, and some either don't want to leave, because they still have some help to give to people.

I forgot to mention how much I love Hurley now, and how much of a better character Jack is now that he's not dying to be The Leader. Hurley's going with his gut, just trying to do the right thing (which is why I've always liked his character), being more assertive and not wanting to cause any more deaths. Jack has finally accepted that he might not, in fact, be the leader the Island needs and he's taking a step back. And becoming much more tolerable because of it. Ohmygod I think I just confessed that I like Jack now.

Posted by: figgy at April 14, 2010 1:47 PM

Has anyone decoded what the whispers were saying last night? I can't find anything on the internets. I figured someone would have transcribed it by now! I MUST KNOW.

Posted by: Norwego at April 14, 2010 1:47 PM

Well, with Ana Lucia it was a total accident. She didn't mean to kill Shannon. I'm hoping that if the island does punish people for murder, it can tell the difference.

Posted by: DeadBessie at April 14, 2010 1:47 PM

Methinks Alt-Universe Desmond and Island Desmond are a team. Absolutely. The way he called his kid Charlie with no hesitation whatsoever? His zen demeanor in the Island timeline? Something's afoot-and I like it.

I'm just hoping that the mysterious jungle kid IS aging and that eventually he will get Jacob-sized. And since everyone has seen him, does that mean he's totally corporeal? So when he says, "Someone will take my place." Does he just mean himself. I KNOW, I know Ilana (who is totally Slavic and not Latina and I loved her and miss her) said blatantly that they are candidates to replace Jacob-but I'm really hoping there's another twist coming our way. Because everyone will be SO bored if Jack or whomever ends up replacing Jacob.

P.S. I don't miss Sun being able to talk. And I love every head nod and wry smile from Capt. Frank Lapidas.

Posted by: coveredinbees at April 14, 2010 1:49 PM

Anybody think that the boy could be Charlie (Desmond's son)? And when he said "you can't kill him" he really meant Desmond?

What an interesting theory, alex. I shall ponder on this. Although, wouldn't there have been a familiarity with Desmond, who saw him?

YES, td, and it creeped me the hell out! That song is already so eerie, but they funked with it, giving it extra crap-your-pants-ness.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at April 14, 2010 1:53 PM

I'm with you, covered, concerning the one FINE Captain Frank Lapidus. I cannot figure out why he is attractive, but that doesn't stop me from staring.

So, I know Hurley was 'awakened' to the universe situation, but did we ever see him look in a mirror? Maybe those moments were building up to the moments of realization? As in, maybe Libby was his mirror? I am rambling...

Posted by: Patty O'Green at April 14, 2010 1:59 PM

Who said anything about murder being the only reason souls can be trapped on the island? Michael is trapped there because of "what he did," which I assume is the murder of two "island innocent" people. Who's the say what the reasons are for the entrapment of other souls on the island. Perhaps each person is judged individually by the island and their punishments fit whatever "crimes" they may have committed. We still don't know exactly what role the island itself is playing in all this.

For me it's getting to the point where they can't just kill off main characters without good reason. I buy the whole "the island was finished with her" argument for Ilana, because, really, what else was there for her to do? I should have known what was coming when she started to get all panicky and shrieky earlier in the episode, since those are two character traits I would never previously have attributed to her. She was a goner. But anyone else - the original Losties, Ben, Richard, Lapidus, or Miles will need good reasons to die, at least for me.

Where the hell is Jacob?

Posted by: Kolby at April 14, 2010 2:01 PM

I didn't see Hurley look into a mirror.

Posted by: Kolby at April 14, 2010 2:02 PM

Yeah Hurley did NOT have a blatant mirror moment. Queer.

Posted by: coveredinbees at April 14, 2010 2:03 PM

Yes, I did notice the Willy Wonka speech in the preview (Is it raining?, Is is snowing? ...).

So does that mean a Widmore-centric episode is next? Could it be that Will Wonka = Charles Widmore, the Candidates = Golden Ticket holders, and the Island = the Chocolate Factory?

Discuss.

Posted by: Ojo Verde at April 14, 2010 2:06 PM

Jacob is running around the jungle in kiddie form. . [iocaine powder,] I'd bet my life on it.

Posted by: coveredinbees at April 14, 2010 2:06 PM

@DeadBessie
Well, it's open to debate, given the nature of Ana-Lucia (who already had killed the guy who was responsible for the loss of her baby) and the fact that season two was a parable between state of nature and social contract (Ana-Lulu's survivors/Jack's), she was a bad person. She wasn't of course all evil, and she has (it's going to be difficult for some to admit or concur) some redeeming qualities, and she was indeed quite fucked up by everything that happened to them. But it wasn't an accident. She was a fucking cop, so either she was lacking the basics (namely identifying an hostile), but she surely was full of anger and hulked it out by shooting Shannon right in the stomach.

The blonde bitch deserved it. She was by far the worst character of the show, and again, as a french person, it was excruciating to hear her translate - inaccurately - the French message, not like a translator, but like a fucking medium, whose lines of dialogues just seem read on a prompter.

I was quite fond of Ana-Lucia, maybe because I have nothing against Michelle Rodriguez.

Posted by: rg at April 14, 2010 2:08 PM

Paddy

I'm not sure if you mean the boy should recognize Desmond or vice versa, but maybe that's one of the reasons why MIB was so quick to ignore the boy and implore Desmond to do the same. The boy (and Desmond, for that matter) certainly appear to know a lot more than we do (given the boy's self-satisfied smirk and Desmond's zen-ness) so maybe they know enough not to give anything away yet, keeping their poker faces until they have the right cards.

Posted by: alex at April 14, 2010 2:12 PM

Remind me never to botch a French-English translation in rg's presence, Whooo, boy.

Posted by: Kolby at April 14, 2010 2:15 PM

I figured the kid(s) are the a representation of the presumably long struggle between Jacob and MIB, and are a reflection of their younger selves. My theory was that MIB and Jacob are entities that transcend mortal life, but can occasionally inhabit mortals. The kids we see are from the long past and somehow became entangled in their struggle - probably MIB just killed/lured "his" kid, and Jacob took over through some act of kindness blah blah.

Really though one of my favorite games they are playing right now is the deliberate ambiguity of MIB and Jacobs roles. MIB is clearly the "bad guy" in that he occasionally does psycho things like pushing Desmond down a well or going all black smoke and savagely murdering a crowd of people, etc. But really his motivations are very accessible and understandable to us the audience; and Jacob is opaque and his actions often result in death as well. Which is better? Part of the time I find myself leaning towards MIB. As Richard points out in the episode, Jacob NEVER just tells people what to do. Such a dick.

-Frob

Posted by: frobme at April 14, 2010 2:17 PM

covered, I think that's a younger Jacob, too. And I do think he's the same kid, just a little older.

And you totally made me LOL at my desk.....[iocaine powder] is awesome.

I MISSED the Wonka speech, but I think I am in love with Ojo Verde now after that comparison.

Posted by: dammitjanet at April 14, 2010 2:18 PM

thought....if that kid IS a young Jacob...will Walt come back as a young MIB?

discuss

Posted by: dammitjanet at April 14, 2010 2:20 PM

There needed to be several more characters in the blast radius. The humongous cast was pretty cool when people would take off for a season or two and then show up again, but the fact that so many characters are there but not doing anything is getting distracting. And their inactivity is making me reconsider how I feel about several of these characters. As of right now, the only characters I need alive are Hurley, Desmond, Sayid, and Sun, because either they're actually doing something or are a woman who's not Kate.

The next few episodes better be a slaughter.

And as for the "character-centric" episodes, I appreciated them when there was time, but did anyone ever watch the flashbacks (remember those) to see Jack's daddy issues? Or to see him run into someone from the island cause holy-crap-everyone-is-connected-why-is-that? Oh, destiny. Great. So now we're meandering?

I love Hurley, so this episode was good aside from some clunky bits ("No big, hombre. Whispers are ghosts."), and he's only getting to take up his rightful place among the mains. Also, for the first time this whole damn season I felt some adrenaline, some tension.

But alt-Chang? Shouldn't he have been about 30 years older? Lazy, producers. Lazy.

Posted by: coryo at April 14, 2010 2:20 PM

Maybe it was Libby, maybe it was all those posters of him when he entered the Mr. Cluck...

@covered
Your life huh?

Posted by: rg at April 14, 2010 2:22 PM

I have this idea in my head that MIB and Jacob have a sort-of Cain and Abel thing going on. They're supernatural entities with (I think) a common mother, who always preferred Jacob. So as children MIB maybe tried to kill Jacob and was punished for it. So now Jacob is haunting MIB as a child to remind him of his first sin, because he knows how irritating MIB will find this.

You know, maybe.

Posted by: figgy at April 14, 2010 2:30 PM

alex I can see your point about zen attitude from Anakin Mystery Kid... even though you got my name wrong.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at April 14, 2010 2:34 PM

@Banner pic;

Wow Jim Belushi's back from the dead! And he certainly gained a few pounds...

Posted by: D-Day at April 14, 2010 2:34 PM

I'm with you on the first half of your theory, Figs.

Posted by: Kolby at April 14, 2010 2:36 PM

I like it figgy. I've been trying to match them up to historical or mythical brothers, and so far, this one is my favorite.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at April 14, 2010 2:36 PM

You know, both Jacob and Smokey are right bastards. There's no getting past it. They play cavalierly with other people's lives. The question is-to what end. Is Jacob a right bastard because he HAS to be, in order to keep Smokey on the island. If it's all down to a "Trading Places/Job"-style wager the fuck them both. But if Jacob knows he MUST lure slave ships, airplanes, French people, and hot Scots (I'm with him there) in order to keep Smokey from escaping/destroying the world, etc.-then maybe, MAYBE we can chalk it up to the greater good. But I'm not really happy with either of them.

Posted by: coveredinbees at April 14, 2010 2:38 PM

Did anybody pick up that calm and unafraid Desmond and Zombie Sayid are acting very similar?

This makes me think that Desmond's encounter with the Widmore's electromagnetic device had two effects. Firstly, it made Desmond's consciousness become unstuck in time. Second, I wonder if Widmore somehow programmed Desmond ala Manchurian Candidate style.

Alternately, did the EM device somehow consume Desmond, just like Claire and Sayid were consumed. The difference being that Claire and Sayid were consumed in a natural process, and Desmond was consumed in a man-made process.

I really like that it appears that Desmond will visit all of the characters in the LA timeline. Is he acting as a Jacob surrogate?

Posted by: Ojo Verde at April 14, 2010 2:47 PM

Paddy
Patty

You are absolutely right! I apologize, a thousand pardons. I saw the "O'Green" and assumed Irish. Blame it on my own liquid lunch :)

Posted by: alex at April 14, 2010 3:07 PM

it was excruciating to hear her translate - inaccurately - the French message, not like a translator, but like a fucking medium,

rg, my love, my favorite (my constant? only time will tell), I think this is because she was *not* a translator. She was a terrified kid who vaguely remembered some conversational French, on whom a great deal of pressure was suddenly placed to translate this transmission. (Shannon kind of grew on me over time, because she became better, more real, I suppose, than she was off-island, unlike Kate, who continued to be sneaky and suspicious.)

That said, I totally get it. I'm from New Jersey. no one here actually talks like they do in the movies (or on teevee).

Posted by: Anna von Murderpuppet at April 14, 2010 3:09 PM

Where the fuck are Bernard and Rose? Still living on some random beach because the writers are too lazy to give them something to do?

Posted by: the_wakeful at April 14, 2010 3:16 PM

And none of the characters are acting in a logical, consistent way. They just sit around like deactivated video game characters who aren't on your team at the moment.

I think this is my fav thing someone has posted today. I'm having visions of Sim-like Kate and Sawyer, head bowed, arms dangling, just waiting.

Posted by: coveredinbees at April 14, 2010 3:19 PM

I'm having visions of Sim-like Kate and Sawyer, head bowed, arms dangling, just waiting.

Do they do that funny little dance when they have to pee?

Posted by: Jerce at April 14, 2010 3:28 PM

Didn't John Locke kill Naomi ? Has anyone else mentioned this ?

Posted by: Christian at April 14, 2010 3:33 PM

Liquid lunch, alex? Jealous. I had veggie pasta. Maybe liquid dinner? OH, drinking game rewatching Lost? Nah, it is sad if I'm alone. Not that I'm ever alone, thanks to you wonderful drunken nerds.

::hugs::

Posted by: Patty O'Green at April 14, 2010 3:35 PM

I realize it's very incidental, but did Hurley still win the lottery? I didn't hear it mentioned in that appreciation presentation. I guess when you're honoring someone you wouldn't go out of your way to point out that success was started because of blind luck, and he of course wouldn't have the numbers. I got the vibe his chicken empire was a result of his pulling himself up by the bootstraps. At the same time, when he called himself the "luckiest" guy on the planet earlier this season on the airplane, that would seem to imply that he did win the lottery.

Also, my current theory for Desmond's seeming omniscience is that he's experiencing sight across time into the future as a result of the new electromagnetic exposure without those pesky side effects that nearly killed him before. It's easy to be at peace when the future is completely predetermined and you know what it is. I guess it would have to be in both realities, but running Locke down still seems like a very strange reaction. And to not have fear about being pushed down a well seems really strange. (I'm done watching previews for the next episode. MILD SPOILERS IF YOU DIDN'T WATCH THE UPCOMING SCENES AT THE END OF THE EPISODE: it was not cool letting us see Desmond at the bottom of that well. I assumed that fall would kill him. I did like the Willy Wonka use, though.)

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 14, 2010 3:38 PM

RE coveredinbees
"You know, both Jacob and Smokey are right bastards.... I'm not really happy with either of them."

I agree, they're both dicks. A lot of Lost could be explained in 2 minutes, rather than these mysterious riddles and puzzles that Jacob and other characters mete out a little at a time, but then there would be little point in having the actual story unfold. So I'm fine with unanswered questions, but yeah, the idea of the both of them moving people around and "arranging" for them to do things or be certain places... uncool.

That's why Miles has become my favorite character. He asks the questions a normal person would ask: "What the fuck? Where did the polar bears come from?"

Posted by: Slash at April 14, 2010 3:42 PM

Also, my current theory for Desmond's seeming omniscience is that he's experiencing sight across time into the future as a result of the new electromagnetic exposure without those pesky side effects that nearly killed him before. It's easy to be at peace when the future is completely predetermined and you know what it is.

Is this because he's found his lobster-er-Constant? Is Libby Hurley's Constant, then? Blah. (not to your ideas but to Libby being important-I never liked her)

Posted by: coveredinbees at April 14, 2010 3:42 PM

At least some of the Island ghosts that Hurley sees aren't murderers, and indeed never set foot on the Island - Ricardo's wife, for example. There does seem to be an element of judging to the whole Island thing though; didn't Mr. Eko die because of his lack of repentence for his off-island activities? (Though given that Smokey has gone from 'security system' to fully cogniscant character, who knows why he killed Eko)

And it will only possibly make sense if Desmond was trying to kill Locke. There's no way they can handwave that he was just trying to get Locke close enough to death to see the Island reality; you can't run someone in a wheelchair over in your car at that speed and be sure they'll survive.

Posted by: Shay at April 14, 2010 3:47 PM

Oh, and all of you lose points for not pointing out the Bruce Springsteen references in this episode. My silence was a test, and you all failed. How very Jacobian of me.

Posted by: coryo at April 14, 2010 3:52 PM

coveredinbees >> I'm not sure it's Constant-dependent. I was thinking that last dosage somehow made him evolve to the next level of inter-dimensional travel such that he no longer needs a Constant to keep it together. He seems to know just way too much.

I'm not that down with the lovey-dovey-hokey business as the means to the end.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 14, 2010 3:55 PM

Preliminary transcript of the first set of whispers, at Libby's grave:

voice 1: I'm so glad nothing's(up)
voice 2: He could've______
voice 3: __________
voice 4: It makes no difference
The second section uses some of the same voices.

http://forum.thefuselage.com/showthread.php?t=110011&page=27

Posted by: Norwego at April 14, 2010 3:56 PM

Running someone down in a car like that is a pretty sloppy way to try to kill someone. I think using it as a means to engineer meetings of flight passengers is even more sloppy and pretty damn dumb, though.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 14, 2010 4:05 PM

Just because Hurley sees a ghost on the Island doesn't mean that particular ghost represents someone who is trapped there as Michael supposedly is. The voices aren't necessarily representative of all ghosts.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 14, 2010 4:06 PM

"He's her lobster!" - I have found a new reason to adore you, covered!

Posted by: Patty O'Green at April 14, 2010 4:19 PM

First, excellent excellent episode.

Illana blowing up, though semi-predictable, was still freakin AWESOME and still shocking bc she was (or at least seemed to be) important, but I still never liked her.

MIB dropping Desmond into the well was shocking and so was Locke getting run over. More things to look forward to, yay! In terms of characters, the show is still developing characters, not sure why people think otherwise. Hurley's character is CLEARLY changing and so is Jack's. Sawyer has come full circle and seems to care only about himself once again. Kate...ok Kate's character is going no where, but who cares? I hate Kate. And Sayid is just a murderous shell of a man and I wonder if he can be saved.

Moving on to theories. I like this idea that little kid is little Jacob. Clearly the idea of alternate universe being the end of whatever happens in present time is completely out...or is it? No it is. Or is it?

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLT!!!

Posted by: Littlejon2001 at April 14, 2010 4:46 PM

I think that Island-Desmond got a long look at the future of what will happen on the island, which explains his serene attitude, he knows what is coming. He knew that FakeLocke was going to throw him in the well and also knew that he would be OK, so no reason to be afraid. Also ties into LAX-Desmond being clear about what he has to do in that reality to do whatever he has decided it is that he needs to do and so he is doing it and doing it to the MAX!...sorry not sure where that last sentence came from...

Posted by: DaveKan at April 14, 2010 5:01 PM

That's cuz you're my lobster, Patty. And yes, Jerce, the Sim Losties totally do that pee dance. Can't you see it?

Posted by: coveredinbees at April 14, 2010 5:15 PM

I'm still confused by Desmond going down on Hurley and forcing him to vomit chicken up all over his penis. That was the real jaw-dropper....

...hah. Jaw-dropper.

Posted by: Jared Smith at April 14, 2010 8:13 PM

does anyone else think the creepy kid in the forest is Jacob?

Posted by: yani at April 14, 2010 8:24 PM

I knew Desmond had to look like Jesus for a reason.

Posted by: kelsy at April 14, 2010 8:41 PM

I believe Michael's ghost is not actually Michael, but the smoke monster appearing as Michael's ghost.

Here's why:

With this 6th and final season, we finally understand the smoke monster's desire to get off the island. We also understand that the smoke monster cannot achieve this on his own. Along with this we know the smoke monster can manipulate people into doing things for him via their fears, desires or beliefs (which was why Desmond was such a threat to him).

The SM can do this by "borrowing" a human form (Locke) or appearing as someone's ghost. Christian Shepard's ghost/human form is actually the smoke monster appearing as Christian. With Claire's encounter with Jin we are clued into the Christian/smoke monster association when she explains to Jin that her Father (and her "Friend") told her the others took her baby. Which is clearly a lie. A lie that benefits Smocke as a recruiter.

We see Christian throughout the series sitting in a rocking chair in Jacob's cabin. Which we later discover has been moved and the ring of ash (that keeps the SM out) around it broken, implying that it was compromised.

Christian told the real Locke that the island need to be moved. He also gave Locke instructions/encouragement in getting the island to stop flashing through time at the bottom of the well. Which led the real Locke off the island and ultimately to his death.

We see Christian appear to Michael during his last moments of his life on the freighter there appears to be an understanding or a "deal"
between him and Christian.

In the Richard/Ricardo flashback, Richard's dead wife appeared to him while he was still in chains declaring that they were in hell and the SM was coming to get him. When she apparently disappears with the SM. The SM in an unknown human form explains to Richard that they indeed are in hell and Jacob had taken his wife. The SM uses this angle to convince Richard to kill Jacob. Jacob later dispels this lie and we see the real ghost of Richard's wife appear to Hurley and share with Richard what he must do...prevent the SM from leaving the island.

To further support my therory, Smocke calmly wittles his stick as he explains to Sawyer that Hugo, Jack and Sun must join them to be able to leave the island. And as a master manipulater, Smocke, as Kate stated, knows that he, nor anyone else would be able to convince (Hurley) them to join the group, so he appeared to Hurley as Michael, warning death if the plane was destroyed. Clearly this "warning" was in Smocke's favor. Just as the previously mentioned ghost appearances and their warnings/instructions worked towards Smocke's ultimate adgenda.

In saying all this, I don't believe a word "Michael" says. I don't believe the ghostly whispers are souls that are trapped on the island. I believe they have something to do with the SM himself. Do you remember when "Walt" appeared to Shannon just before she was shot? Well, the whispering took place then and clearly Walt was not dead. Whisperings also took place just before some of Smocke's appearance (to Sayid just before the darkness reached his heart)... just my 2 cents :)

(my memory may be a bit foggy in some of the episodes from seasons past)

Posted by: Hannah at April 14, 2010 10:50 PM

While I was a bit disappointed that Ilana was killed off so soon after showing Ben such forgiveness at the end of the "Dr. Linus" episode (since that was the first time I actually liked her character), I actually laughed OUT LOUD when she blew up, just from the sheer audacity of it. As for Sideways Locke being run down, I figured it was Desmond's (rather heavy-handed) way of triggering his island memories. It seemed to me that the final moment we see of Locke's face as he lay on the pavement was actually the beginning of his flash of recognition/ memories of his island self. He just had a split-second look of "Ah-hah!" OK, maybe that was just "Holy shit, some bastard just ran me over!", but I'm betting it was the latter. :)

Posted by: Tarathemis at April 14, 2010 11:47 PM

Wow, I seem to have really missed why Desmond hit Locke with the car. I saw it as much more of a Flocke throws Des down a well so Des hits Locke with a car. But now I am realizing that it was much to simplistic for the Lost world.

Also, I like the Cain Abel thing but I always saw it more as Job with God agreeing to let the Devil test Job to see if Job would turn his back on God. Only in the Lost world there is more then one Job and the entities aren't as all powerful as God. If it turns out that Jacob has to do this to keep MIB from escaping then fine, a few humans are worth the world, but it seems like much more of a game to me.

Posted by: Morgan LaFai at April 15, 2010 12:21 AM

Hannah

The problem with your theory is that Ilana stated in no unspecific terms that MIB was trapped in Locke's form. Maybe it's possible that Mercutio is trapped, and his end-game is the same as MIB, but any direct manifestation doesn't seem possible. Unless, of course, Ilana was full of shit.

Posted by: alex at April 15, 2010 1:39 AM

Hannah, as I understand it, MIB used to be able to change forms and appear as Christian Shepard, Richard's wife, etc. However, since Jacob died he is now bound to Locke's body/appearance and the only thing he can turn into is the smoke monster.

This was a great, great episode (I'm a day late, work keeps taking up all my time, boo). The thing that I constantly love about Lost is that I saw a lot of the events of the episode coming (Ilana getting blown up, Desmond getting pushed in the well) but it's the actors that really sell it and six seasons worth of building up characters that I love that makes me ok with that.

I definitely still think that the boy in the woods is a younger Jacob, but this also reminded me of the writers' promise that Aaron was going to be very important to the plot. We only have 5 episodes left, do you guys think that's going to come into play or were they just screwing with us to cook up some misdirection?


This is his mirror image’s job: In the original timeline, everyone told Hurley he was crazy, so here, he gets to relieve someone else of that worry.

This made me think of something that got brought up in last week's discussion about the LAX timeline possibly being a wish fulfillment scenario. I wonder if Dan's onto something here, and it isn't so much wish fulfillment as the LAX Losties are a mirror image of their island selves. Hurley wins the lottery but now is lucky instead of unlucky; Sawyer still lives in a morally gray area, but has chosen the straight path instead of being a con man; Miles was a con man of sorts too, using his talent with dead people to make cash, and he's on the straight and narrow as well. Sayid still has his "talents" but is unwilling to use them outside of war; Kate is a fugitive but (as I understand it from Darlton) is now innocent of the crime she's accused of.

Posted by: Even Stevens at April 15, 2010 2:31 AM

Wow, I seem to have really missed why Desmond hit Locke with the car. I saw it as much more of a Flocke throws Des down a well so Des hits Locke with a car. But now I am realizing that it was much to simplistic for the Lost world.

That's exactly what I thought too, Morgan

Posted by: Even Stevens at April 15, 2010 2:33 AM

Someone asked about Rose & Bernard. I think they are the 2 skeletons from the cave. But I should write too much here to explain this and I do not have the time now...

Posted by: Cruella at April 15, 2010 6:24 AM

This made me think of something that got brought up in last week's discussion about the LAX timeline possibly being a wish fulfillment scenario. I wonder if Dan's onto something here, and it isn't so much wish fulfillment as the LAX Losties are a mirror image of their island selves. Hurley wins the lottery but now is lucky instead of unlucky; Sawyer still lives in a morally gray area, but has chosen the straight path instead of being a con man; Miles was a con man of sorts too, using his talent with dead people to make cash, and he's on the straight and narrow as well. Sayid still has his "talents" but is unwilling to use them outside of war; Kate is a fugitive but (as I understand it from Darlton) is now innocent of the crime she's accused of.

So much yes it hurts.

Posted by: Kolby at April 15, 2010 11:34 AM

I am thinking that Desmond is resemblimg Jacob more and more. He can move easily between the two worlds, is not afraid of being hurt by Flocke, and is manipulating people in the Sideways world much like Jacob did.

Posted by: L.O.V.E. at April 15, 2010 2:17 PM

Anyone else notice that the two "camps" are basically made up of the "good" & "bad" guys from the original Losties? Jack, Hurley, & Sun have always been seen as "the good guys", while Sawyer, Kate, & Sayid have been seen as "the bad guys" (with admittedly their "good" moments...but still the bad guys at their nature). Even Jin, when we first saw him at the beginning of the show, was a "bad guy" in the way he treated Sun. And now they seem to be in the "Good"/Jacob and "Bad"/MIB camps.

And I can't see any other outcome other than Jack & Real Locke becoming the new Jacob & MIB, especially with the familiar "Hello Jack" MIB gave and the shocked look on Jack's face.

Posted by: jonesy at April 15, 2010 3:31 PM

True jonesy, but I don't know what people mean when they Real Locke... cuz he dead.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at April 16, 2010 12:23 PM

Des will be busy at the hospital:
Claire and Kate with baby
Jin and Sun with the gun shot
Ben and Locke with the car accident
I'm sure Sawyer and Miles will come to the hospital to investigate

Posted by: L.O.V.E. at April 17, 2010 10:58 PM

My TV was out this week so I was forced to watch on line Saturday. So I'm so late to this it is pretty pointless. Another outstanding episode. I would like to say that whomever is in charge of script continuity on the show needs to get a HUGE bonus this year.

Posted by: TylerDFC at April 18, 2010 1:02 PM


















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