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Guides | November 4, 2009 | Comments (94)


As most of you know by know by now, in a citizen initiative yesterday, Maine — my state of residence — narrowly repealed a law making same-sex marriage legal in the state, 53 to 47 percent. If you’d lived here for the last three or four months, you’d probably know why, too. The opposition to gay marriage aired some of the most vile, hateful commercials you’ll ever see in a political campaign, suggesting nothing short of grade-school teachers demonstrating sodomy to their students as part of the new “gay” curriculum.

We’re a fairly liberal state — at least, the Southern populated parts are (ironically, we also passed an initiative extending the use of medical marijuana by a fairly wide margin) — though the more rural areas are still filled with Impeach Obama bumper stickers and a backwards worldview. I’m not entirely sure, either, until an older generation of people begin to die off, how long it’s going to take us to get a law voted on in this country to legalize same-sex marriage. Frankly, it’s embarrassing, and I woke up this morning feeling a small sense of shame for a state that I’ve otherwise really grown to admire over the past year.

Anyway, I thought maybe the best way we could convince the equality deniers to finally come around to our own cause is through film. I don’t expect much in the way of sympathy or understanding, but maybe we can convince them that same-sex marriage is good for their own self interests.

And with that in mind, I encourage you to show these five films to those narrow-minded assholes who consistently vote against same-sex marriage, and I’ll explain why:

5. In and Out: Look, there’s nothing icky about homosexuality! Kevin Kline plays a gay man! And he’s married to Phoebe Cates! You remember her from Private School, right? The bare-chested lady on the horse? I thought so. And Kline also played the President of the United States in Dave, for God’s Sake (granted, a POTUS who liked show tunes). If a fictional president can be gay, it’s gotta be OK, right?

You know who else was gay in this movie? Tom freakin’ Selleck! Are you going to tell me that you’d want to keep Magnum P.I. from marrying the love of his life? And if same-sex marriages aren’t legalized, and homosexuality continues to be disparaged, people like Howard Brackett would have to go on living lives, marrying characters played by Joan Cusack, and attempting to use self-help tapes to rid themselves of the gay. Is that the kind of world you really want to live in? Besides, just think, if straight men were a little more open to homosexuality, maybe they could marry Phoebe Cates, too!

4. Kissing Jessica Stein: If the reason you’re voting against same-sex marriages in your state is because you’re jealous because same-sex couples have better relationships than you, then check out Kissing Jessica Stein. Just imagine, had you — backwards no-good, equality-denying asshole — helped to pass same-sex marriage, people like Jessica might have married Helen too soon, and then you could wallow in their marriage fail! Is your marriage suffering from sexual intimacy problems, too? Of course it is, you’re an asshole! Revel in some good old fashioned schaudenfreude! Let’s give those gays their chance to live lives as sexually unfulfilling as yours (only, they won’t be able to blame it on their tiny penis).

3. Bound: You want to deny these two lovely ladies a marriage license? Watch this NSFW clip, and just think about it. Think really, really hard about it. Listen to that tiny penis of yours.


Gina Gershon & Jennifer Tilly Lesbian Scene - Watch the top videos of the week here

You’re starting to come around now, aren’t you? Yeah. I thought so. If gay marriage means more of this, we all win, don’t we? And the terrorists lose!

2. Philadelphia: You’re a narrow-minded troglodytic hateful little buzzkill, so I doubt very much that the death of a gay man from AIDS is going to elicit much sympathy from you. You’d probably celebrate it. I know, I know: The opera music isn’t exactly helping, either — it ain’t exactly Toby Keith. But let’s look at it this way, OK. Say Tom Hanks wasn’t a wealthy lawyer. Say he was destitute — I suspect you probably think most gays are poor, anyway. In your mind, anal sex and poverty are inextricably linked. Now, if he was destitute but married to the Antonio Banderas character when he died, then guess what?! The gay feller who survived probably would’ve had to pick up his funeral expenses. Ha! Serves him right for being a butt pirate, amiright? But, since he wasn’t married to his partner, guess who has to pick up the tab now? That’s right, the taxpayers. You do, sir. Your hard-earned taxpaying dollars are going to help dispose of the body of a sodomite! Disgusting!

And think about this: If he had been married, maybe his husband might have had health insurance, which would’ve paid for all that treatment he received. Instead, the hospital will have to foot the bill, and the hospital is going to pass that cost along to you. And you wonder, every time you go to the ER after you “fall” on that G.I. Joe action figure and have to have it removed from your ass, why it cost $1500. Because you voted against same-sex marriage. See, you’re voting against your own self interests.

Think about that.

1. Brokeback Mountain: You like cowboys, right? Clint Eastwood, John Wayne, Quiqley Down Under. Yee-haw! Well, Brokeback Mountain is the best Western you’ve never seen. It stars that straight fella who played the Joker and Donnie Darko himself. And the prairies are vast, and the cows are plentiful. The cinematography is gorgeous, too. You should give it a shot. Seriously. It’s the best damn cowboy movie since Big Jake. Oh, and get this: You get to see Anne Hathaway’s sweater monkeys, right there in the flesh, bouncing around like nobody’s business.

Where’s the shootin’, you ask? Oh, don’t worry about that. You just keep watching it — there’s this huge showdown with pistols and gunfire and an OK Corral around the three hour mark. You just have to keep watching it until then. And when your eyes start to well up, and you begin to feel something besides cold, ugly hate — you just push that feeling aside, sir. Repress it, like you do everything else in your spite-filled life. Oh, I know, it’s gonna make you wanna heave these huge big old sobs of agony, but you gotta get past that; remember, there’s the biggest shootout in the history of Westerns and a big old sunset waiting for you in the end. You just gotta stay detached, son. Don’t let any of that nasty old empathy creep into your system. It’s not like you and your sister can relate with a man whose love is forbidden, shunned by society, and shoved off into back alleyways and the backseat of your mom’s Chevy. You just keep watching and right after that Joker feller takes a big old whiff of that cowboy shirt (no no, don’t you cry; do. not. cry.) there’s gonna be fireworks the likes of which you ain’t never seen.

But if you can’t make it all the way to the shootout because your face is planted in your hands and you can’t see through all the tears and you’re wailing like a stuck pig, don’t worry about it. That doesn’t make you gay. It makes you human. And, for once, you might actually have something in common with gay people.


Your Movie Time Machine | The House of the Devil Review





Comments

Um, I don't think the Brokeback guys were cowboys. They were shepherds.

Posted by: BWeaves at November 4, 2009 3:08 PM

Dude you forgot Top Gun.

You suck.

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at November 4, 2009 3:10 PM

Don't forget Imagine Me and You. Very sweet movie.

Posted by: Anna at November 4, 2009 3:13 PM

Genuinely fucking brilliant... and moving and painfully funny/heartbreaking.
Dustin, you may have painted your masterpiece.

Posted by: Spender at November 4, 2009 3:15 PM

The people of California welcome you the shame club.
Have some punch.

Posted by: Drake at November 4, 2009 3:16 PM

Another vote for Imagine Me and You. Sweet, great dialogue, and a love is love message. "So you're lesbi-friends?" "It doesn't matter ..."

Posted by: Steph at November 4, 2009 3:16 PM

The people of California welcome you the shame club.
Have some punch.

Posted by: Drake at November 4, 2009 3:18 PM

The people of California welcome you the shame club.
Have some punch.

Posted by: Drake at November 4, 2009 3:20 PM

You know who was a shepherd? Jesus.

Posted by: John Denver's Wingman at November 4, 2009 3:20 PM

In fairness to the bigots, Kevin Cline also played a French man (French Kiss) and Cole Porter (DeLovely), and a "keffir-lover" (Cry Freedom) so those three might cancel out In and Out.

Posted by: PaddyDog at November 4, 2009 3:22 PM

Brokeback Mountain. ah, i'm still waiting for someone to kiss me with such passion, intensity and longing as Ennis did with Jack after they meet up again.

There could be no other number one on this list.

Posted by: Derreck at November 4, 2009 3:24 PM

I'm not ashamed that I liked In and Out, what choice did I have with Kevin and Tom?

Great list.

Posted by: Cindy at November 4, 2009 3:29 PM

OK, I only hit post 1 time. I guess there's a lot of shame to go around.

I was really disappointed by this result. Not as much as last year, but still, I had hoped some place in this damned country wasn't as backward as the rest.

Posted by: Drake at November 4, 2009 3:30 PM

Brokeback actually turned me into a gay man. It was that powerful.

(Oh, wait... maybe we shouldn't tell them that part...)

Posted by: Anna von Beaverpuppet at November 4, 2009 3:31 PM

Dear Maine:

The rest of New England is fucking ashamed of you. Seriously. Get your shit together before we storm up there and steal your r's like we did with Rhode Island's.

Signed,

Massachusetts, Vermont, Connecticut and New Hampshire

Posted by: TK at November 4, 2009 3:37 PM

Great list, Dustin. I'm a fellow member of the shame club, and a resident of the state who's governor was featured in "Outrage." (Sidenote: I'm acquainted with one of the women linked with Crist and mentioned in the movie) The saddest bit is that the narrow minded assholes will probably never change their minds. They can't see past the ends of their own noses and into anyone else's lives other than to judge. Empathy (or even just plain old understanding) is missing from most people these days. I'm not sure why, maybe some quirk of evolution (another no-no down here in the Sunshine State).

Posted by: Catptain Tuttle at November 4, 2009 3:43 PM

Welcome to the 'I'm embarrassed for my State' club, Mainers. Portland OR had legal gay marriage for about 6 weeks a few years back. The line around the Multnomah County licensing office wrapped around the block. Then the 'It just ain't right' crowd started in and the whole thing got upended. It was a great insight in to the dark underbelly of our otherwise lovely community. Heck (for better or for worse) Portland has an openly gay mayor! And still the hypocrisy won out.

I am quickly becoming a 'ban all marriage' advocate. If vapid idiots like Kardishans and Spears' can get married and homosexuals who have actual brain cells and committed mature relationships can't, it is a meaningless ritual anyway. Have a wicked great party, declare your love publicly, make appropriate legal agreements, and get on with it. Plus, I hate weddings. And Bridezillas.

But, you know, I am a cynical jaded divorcee. I know better than "happily ever after."

Posted by: Lindsey with an 'e' at November 4, 2009 3:45 PM

An "everything but marriage" law looks to be passing in Washington (state), so my soul is not entirely crushed. Yet.

Stupid fucking Maine! And stupid fucking Washington, and California too. In these states, the legislatures/courts granted the rights, but NO, then they had to let the voters decide. Sometimes you have to legislate what's right. If there'd been a nationwide vote on abolishing slavery, would it have passed? ARRGGGH!!!

Posted by: MM at November 4, 2009 3:47 PM

Gay, much?

Posted by: fitzwilly at November 4, 2009 3:51 PM

Dear New England:

The rest of the country is ashamed and embarrassed by you. Seriously, get your shit together or get your shit out.

signed,

Everybody who isn't a rump ranger A Completely Ignorant Asshole

PS - somebody hold me.

Posted by: fitwilly again (who can't spell his own fucking name) at November 4, 2009 3:56 PM

There's a reason Civil Rights measures never got put to a voter referendum.

Just sayin'.

Posted by: Intern Rusty at November 4, 2009 3:56 PM

Oh, we're all gay down here, fitzwilly. And we're from all OVER the country. Especially your part.

Posted by: Anna von Beaverpuppet at November 4, 2009 3:58 PM

I take the larger point, but I actually read a review of Brokeback Mountain that ranted for several paragraphs about how everyone would have been happier if they had accepted their wives and lived the lives they were "supposed" to.

Did you see the same movie I did?

I saw it really early in its run, at a late night showing, and the theater was packed. This was back before it got a national release, and I will tell you, I have never been in a quieter movie theater in my entire life. Everyone just walked out shell-shocked and tear-stained. I didn't think there would be a way to argue the rhetorical point the movie made. Just goes to show you that ignorance and hate know no logic, no shame.

Posted by: SavageCats at November 4, 2009 4:01 PM

The sad thing for Maine and California is that the voters took rights away. My lovely state (Michigan) didn't just pass a constitutional amendment against gay marriage, we also saw fit to prevent any relationship "substantially similar", i.e. civil unions, or even allowing public institutions to extend health insurance to same sex partners. It's appalling and embarrassing.

On the other hand, Kalamazoo citizens just voted to include LBGTs in their anti-discrimination law. So that is a little something.

Posted by: Lee at November 4, 2009 4:02 PM

This is a really gay post.

*sits back and admires own sentence*

Posted by: Kballs at November 4, 2009 4:10 PM

Dead on. I read the news this morning with disgust. I hope these pricks can sleep at night, because by my watch for spreading bigotry and hate they are the ones going to Hell as their "just reward".

Curious that our great President and "Friend of the gays (when it means votes)" has been silent on this today. Or not really curious at all, he got what he needed from them. I voted for the dude and I'm beyond disappointed in him.

Posted by: TylerDFC at November 4, 2009 4:11 PM

Oh, we're all gay down here, fitzwilly.

We all float down here, AvB.

Posted by: MM at November 4, 2009 4:18 PM

EXACTLY, MM.

And yer little dog, too.

Posted by: Anna von Beaverpuppet at November 4, 2009 4:23 PM

It is incredibly frustrating to see gay marriage continue to be defeated on state ballot initiatives. I'm convinced that a majority of my generation is not opposed to gay marriage (if only they'd get off their asses and vote for it!) so I can at least take some comfort in the fact that once these intolerant, bigoted old fucks die off we will (eventually) pass legislation that allows same sex couples to marry.

Until then, I am just profoundly sorry that we live in a society where a majority of voters feel that it is in any way justifiable to prohibit two people who love each other from being married.

Well fuck that "majority." How dare they.

Posted by: Yossarian at November 4, 2009 4:24 PM

I wish I didn't have such a tiny little penis.

Posted by: fitzwilly at November 4, 2009 4:25 PM

Don't feed the trolls guys. Just buttfuck in front of them.

Posted by: Julie at November 4, 2009 4:26 PM

But it's so much fun to feed them! And teach their children the gay!

Posted by: Anna von Beaverpuppet at November 4, 2009 4:29 PM

I was filling up with righteous anger, then I watched the Bound clip, then I forgot our nation's troubles for a while, then I kept reading and filled up with righteous anger AGAIN! How did you do that?

Posted by: sansho1 at November 4, 2009 4:30 PM

Julie=WIN!

Posted by: Lindsey with an 'e' at November 4, 2009 4:33 PM

I have to admit that if my state ever had a proposed law allowing same sex marriage...I'd have to vote against it without thinking twice.

I've been married, I like gay people and I don't want them to be miserable.

Posted by: anderbot at November 4, 2009 4:37 PM

Just remember, without gay marriage there will never be "Gay Divorce Court". And who wouldn't watch that?!

Posted by: sansho1 at November 4, 2009 4:39 PM

Ya know the 'argument' I hate the most?
The "Gay marriage would demean/devalue my hetero marriage" bullshit.
Anyone who feels that another person's marriage in any way validates or invalidates their own, is in a pretty fucked up marriage.
Hollywood impulse marriages are far more detrimental to the notion of marriage than gay marriage could ever be.

Posted by: Lindsey with an 'e' at November 4, 2009 4:44 PM

I’m not entirely sure, either, until an older generation of people begin to die off, how long it’s going to take us to get a law voted on in this country to legalize same-sex marriage.

Idea: Outlaw marriage past a certain age (say, 60?). This law would nullify any marriage once one (or both) of the partners reaches "old age."
Reason: Clearly, when the bible talked about marriage, it was talking euphemistically about sex, which everyone knows only happens after you've been hitched. And old people gettin' it on is gross. It's clearly NOT what Jesus had in mind. So why should we facilitate the geriatrics' hideous practices? If we just don't let them be married, they won't infect our children's brains with terrible images of saggy breasts and wrinkled O faces!

Posted by: esme at November 4, 2009 4:46 PM


Anderbot:
Exactly! That is exactly why we should continue to wish marriage on religious nuts. They deserve it. Stupid fuckers.

Sansho1:
Gay Divorce Court
Would
Be
Awesome!

Posted by: Lindsey with an 'e' at November 4, 2009 4:48 PM

Seriously? You're shocked by this? You can't believe the same country that elected George W. Bush twice, gave Jeff Dunham his own TV show, made Larry the Cable Guy a millionaire, thinks Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh make sense, gave the Fast and Furious franchise enough money to make three fucking sequels, and loves its freedom of religion (but only if you're a Christian) would vote against allowing two people who love each other to get married?

Posted by: henchman for hire at November 4, 2009 4:48 PM

Phoebe Cates wasn't topless on the horse. Betsy Russell was.

I was going to apologize for nitpicking before realizing that this is no nitpick. This is an essential piece of information that was formative in the lives of many and may one day save the lives of many more.

Posted by: SackmementoCalifornia at November 4, 2009 4:48 PM

"You know who was a shepherd? Jesus."

Posted by: John Denver's Wingman


Really? I thought he was a carpenter. (Because he liked to work with wood, cough, cough.)

Posted by: BWeaves at November 4, 2009 4:50 PM

esme, I remember hearing a while back that in a state where gay marriage had been shot down by a judge because the "purpose" of marriage is to produce and care for children, that there was a similar challenge. Basically, the gay rights group then petitioned that any marriage which did not produce children within three years would be ruled invalid. Furthermore, that any union which DID result in a pregnancy would result in immediate common law marriage to be sanctioned by a judge as soon as possible.

I'm sure it was shot down, but I appreciated them taking such an asinine statement to it's logical conclusion.

Posted by: Intern Rusty at November 4, 2009 5:00 PM

Dustin, you took the words right out of my mouth. I woke up this morning and thought it was pretty fucked that we approved medical marijuana -- by a pretty wide margin, too -- but rejected gay marriage in the same election. Well, at least now we can smoke pot and enjoy a rousing bout of gay sex.

Posted by: brabble at November 4, 2009 5:03 PM

I gotta take umbrage with the whole 'old people' are gay haters, because I don't think that's necessarily the case.I think there are just as many 'young' religious nut job gay haters out there today as there are 'old' ones. I don't know, you think maybe they're breeding them?

I also know that what you people think of as 'old' are people who were teens and young adults during the civil rights era and are probably more inclined to be at the very least, tolerant, than what seems to be an good chunk of your culture that are showing themselves to be tea party going asshats on a daily basis.

Posted by: brite at November 4, 2009 5:06 PM

"You know who was a shepherd? Jesus."
Posted by: John Denver's Wingman

"Really? I thought he was a carpenter."
Posted by: BWeaves

He was the shepherd of a metaphorical flock. Of followers. And he liked to work with wood. I heard he also liked whore pussy.

"Phoebe Cates wasn't topless on the horse. Betsy Russell was. "
Posted by: SackmementoCalifornia

True! But Phoebe Cates was topless in Fast Times At Ridgemont High. I guess Dustin just gets a little confused about his nude scenes from time to time.

Posted by: MM at November 4, 2009 5:09 PM

Show me Love is one of the best gay films of all time! This list needs to be revised!

Posted by: anon at November 4, 2009 5:12 PM

Dustin, this is brilliant. Echoing what's been said above, this is one of your best Pajiba contributions yet if not the best. I know how you feel; this was how I felt a year ago here in California. But, yes, take heart in the fact that youth will win the day on this one.

For those wondering about that passage of time and how long it will take bigotry and ignorance to die out (or at least be outvoted), I thought this statistical study was interesting. Obviously it's not perfect, as he had Maine predicted to go this year, but in the second link he did mention other factors that could keep it from happening.

The first is from back in April, but the statistical study he references in the second was started therein and has a state-by-state prediction for years of passage…

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/04/will-iowans-uphold-gay-marriage.html

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/10/analysis-gay-marriage-ban-is-underdog.html

Posted by: DarthCorleone at November 4, 2009 5:15 PM

Dustin, as someone who lives an alternative lifestyle, I appreciate your concern for equality for all American citizens. Gays, lesbians, and transgender all have the right to get married to the person they love.

Having said that, I agree with you on one point Dustin. In order for a strong change to occur, narrow-minded pricks who think boys kissing boys and girls kissing girls in their naughty bits is more important than making sure their country functions on a somewhat even keel have to start dying in large numbers. I'm not advocating the followers of the Godtopus go on a multi-state killing spree (what we have to bitch about if we did that?), but I will hope for the day that all of us can spend the rest of our lives being miserable with the person we love, regardless of whether we married a man or a woman.

Until then, you narrow-minded pukes can revel in these gems of knowledge: For homophobic men, you're just angry that I can have a lover who not only loves worshiping my throbbing love-pump, they are actually very good at it, unlike your wife. For homophobic women, you're just pissed that you have to deal with a tangle-tongued moron who's idea of foreplay involves spitting in his palm for lube, rather than another woman who knows exactly what the female form is designed to do and feel.

Posted by: bignick at November 4, 2009 5:16 PM

Alright, I might catch some guff for this, but Alright, I might catch some guff for this, but I'm gonna say it anyway:

"The saddest bit is that the narrow minded assholes will probably never change their minds. They can't see past the ends of their own noses and into anyone else's lives other than to judge."

That sentiment is not necessarily true, and I say that from personal experience. If you had asked me a year ago if I thought gays should have the right to married, I would have given you some horse-shit response about civil unions being the best political option…yada, yada, yada. Then the church I attend started taking an active role in the gay marriage debate…as persons of faith that were IN FAVOR of gay marriage. At first, I didn’t really know how I felt about that. Then I attended a number of services and meetings discussing the issue that had some of the most compelling stories from gay couples about the marriage struggle that I have ever heard. If you ask me today if I thought gays should have the right to marry, my response would be, “Yes, HELL yes; when is the rally for it and what should I put on my sign?”

My point is only this: it is easy to bash the other side for being stupid, to throw up our hands in disgust and walk away. It is much harder to really listen to what concerns the other person, and then try to address those concerns with the careful logic of a correct argument. But, for my money, calmly trying to bring people around to a just way of thinking is better than waiting “until an older generation of people begin to die off” for things to be made right. As my pastor once said, in regards to running into a teabag protester:

“What I wanted to say to the man was, ‘Friend, if you will loosen your clinging grip to your guns and your religion, I will loosen my clinging grip to my personal defenses, and perhaps we can find a middle ground to share, because we are all blessed brothers of the human condition’”

Posted by: NotesOnMyBathroomMirror at November 4, 2009 5:18 PM

Ya know, my little brother had his sex registered as female until a few years ago(he's 23). It was a mistake at the hospital(cue small penis jokes). But, I suppose he was legally female. Anyway, if I were him and I still had that, I would totally marry a dude. Any dude would do. I'd march right down to the courthouse and get a marriage certificate. What could they do, test me? Besides the ridiculousness of really determining gender, they'd have to test everyone, and that would be hilarious.

Oh, and on the point of marriage is to produce children: my Dad gave me that argument one time and I just whipped out infertile women(men too, but women seems to hit 'em harder). Everyone in the car was stumped. Eventually, I shit you not, I got my Dad to say it would be OK for two women to be married if one had an XX phenotype while one was XY. Fucking. Hilarious.

Posted by: pissant at November 4, 2009 5:18 PM

"You know who was a shepherd? Jesus."

Posted by: John Denver's Wingman


Really? I thought he was a carpenter. (Because he liked to work with wood, cough, cough.)

Posted by: BWeaves at November 4, 2009 4:50 PM


Let's also not forget his great beard. Commonly known by some as a 'Bumper guard for a high speed cocksucker.'

Yeah...i said it.

Posted by: PissBoy at November 4, 2009 5:19 PM

Hmmmm, which angle of this post should I go for?

Should I go for the fact that my mom lived in a sham marriage until I was eighteen because she thought she'd "get over it" until she finally came out of the closet at fifty-six and said it's the happiest and realest she's ever been? My dad ended up remarrying his high school sweetheart and my mom has been with the same woman for five years, so it turned out well for everyone.

Should I talk about the fact that I've known straight couples that are married that hate each other, stay together "for the kids", sleep around, verbally abuse each other, beat their kids, beat each other, but then are the first to say they must preserve the "sanctity" of marriage?

Mention the fact that until 1967, there were nineteen U.S. states where interracial marriage was illegal? So your other pajiba-half, he or she of the dark skin/light skin/accented/unaccented persuasion...yeah, it was legal for cops to come INTO YOUR HOME and arrest you for boffing each other and having children. That was forty-two years ago. Which means that Obama's parents would never have been able to stay together long enough to mold their son into the President of the United States.

Mention the chestnut that right now, if you're a gay couple in any state that doesn't recognize gay marriage, there are over ONE THOUSAND laws that protect heterosexual married couples, but not you. That includes last wills, adoption, child custody, mortgages, equity, and if you happen to serve in the armed forces, the government can withold the money from your partner that you earned fighting for the United States.

If anyone has a chance, go look up Philip Spooner on youtube. The guy is probably older than God, he shakes when he stands up, and he moved me to tears the other day watching his clip at a Maine town hall meeting. Mr. Spooner has four kids, one of whom is gay. He also liberated two Nazi death camps, stormed the beach at Normandy, and is a VFW chaplain. He lives in Biddeford, Maine, where men dress like Paul Bunyan, talk like Good Will Hunting and Degrassi Jr. High, and they start you working in the logging industry from the time you're pulled from your mother.

And Mr. Spooner believes in gay marriage.

He said "I did not liberate those camps so that three of my children could get married, and the fourth could sit on the sidelines. I did not fight and watch American men die so that people could be treated as second class citizens."

If you don't like gays, or the idea of them making out or redecorating in the house next to you grosses you out, fine. You don't have to talk to them, be best friends with them, or even look at them walking down the street.

But seriously, all religion and ethics and morality aside.....how does their wanting to be validated as a married consenting adult bother you? How does it affect you? How does it make your marriage/partnership/fling/dating life any different? It's about love and validation as a person and as a unit and saying "Someone loves me enough to dedicate their life to me, and chooses to wake up each morning and face the world together. Please recognize that and have respect for me as a person."

Posted by: scorzi at November 4, 2009 5:19 PM

brite >> Obviously older people are not universally opposed to same-sex marriage, but the numbers are there, and they do not lie. Often the older you become, the more difficult it becomes to escape taught prejudices. Outside of religiosity, age is the most reliable predictor for stance on this issue. Take a look at the links I posted above.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at November 4, 2009 5:19 PM

Brite

Nobody should be arguing that it is black and white but the trend is very hard to ignore: kids these days are a lot more tolerant and accepting of the gays. Sure, some of them are going to fall in and support the status quo but that will not be enough to stem the tide of the growing majority who don't oppose gay marriage. In my lifetime we will have legal gay marriage.

Posted by: Yossarian at November 4, 2009 5:24 PM

We have pot AND gay marriage...yay Holland! You're all invited to visit the lovely Amsterdam.

Also the best gay movie ever has to be Bedrooms and Hallways starring Kevin McKidd and James Purefoy. Seriously, youtube it...you'll die :)

Posted by: Mona at November 4, 2009 5:25 PM

What happened to "Yes We Can?" Maine votes out same-sex marriage, NYC reelects Bloomberg against the recommendations of the president (the mayor, going against term limits somehow, believes the budget problems in NYC can be solved by freezing police, fire department, EMT, and other public service organization hiring and wages that are exceptionally low for a major city), and NJ elects a man who claims to support education for all children yet is against the teacher's union and any new forms of funding for public schools. The fuck?

Posted by: Robert at November 4, 2009 5:27 PM

After reading all these comments, I'm getting all fired up to 'out' myself on a few points. I yam what yam, and enjoy what I enjoy, and am wired exactly the way I came out of the oven. For better / worse / comparison, to any other human on this planet.

Then I think about the fact that I've worked nearly 10 years at a ginormous Company that is generally considered 'family' and 'conservative'. So I have to take a pause and think about all the concerns of posting personal-ish type info out there onto the Interwebs (and really, that just makes me angrier that I can't exactly "be me")

So this I can freely share(at least for today): I'm female, agnostic, barely political, childless by choice and been married once before (who *knows* if I'll ever do that again). The fact that people who truly love each other and are willing to make that committed, legal-y, bond together is awesome in this day and age. So to be able to do it in front of an officant, let it be so. All this moaning and trash-throwing about teachin the childrens the gay lifestyle... and marriage = god bond and nothing less... is crap.

Side note: not sure if it's just me, but when reading the comments (for a few months now), the text in the sentences often goes off to right and over that pale grey vertical line. I end up missing out on each line (and it's meaning). Is it my formatting of IE and is a 'veiw' thing? Are just some people just aware of it and do some sort of automatic carriage return type thing? I'm am fairly behind when it comes to topics "tech-y". Help?

Posted by: Ms MoMo at November 4, 2009 5:47 PM

scorzi, what a fantastic comment.

Posted by: figgy at November 4, 2009 5:56 PM

Folks have already made more serious comments that were better than whatever claptrap I could whip up, so I am going the funny route:

Jesus goes both ways: a shepherd and a carpenter. Duuuuh.

And I would love that self-help tape from In and Out. It is not only disconcertingly soothing, but it can SEE YOU SHOW YOUR FABULOUSNESS. IN REAL TIME. It is like a hateful little psychic camera or something. "No, stop doing that! Stop it!"

Plus it has the Village People. Come on.

Posted by: Vermillion at November 4, 2009 6:01 PM

I think that clip from "Bound" just turned me gay. Let me check... yup... I LIKE BOOBIES!


And boo on you, Maine.

Posted by: MelBivDevoe at November 4, 2009 6:08 PM

Agreed, MelBivDevoe. If I had the opportunity to do it with Jennifer Tilly and/or Gina Gershon, I'd go lesbian quicker than you can say "Yay boobies!".

Posted by: MM at November 4, 2009 6:14 PM

As a resident of another state with bare majority of bigoted morons (AKA California)--sorry to hear about Maine joining our club.

But we have a comeback of sorts for the bigots. It's a would-be proposition called 2010 California Marriage Protection Act (Safeguarding Marriage From Evil of Divorce). The sponsor is trying to get this on the 2010 ballot. The tag line is "You Said 'Til Death Do Us Part. You're not dead yet".

Maybe Maine should do the same?

Posted by: True_Blue at November 4, 2009 6:16 PM

Ms MoMo: I have the same problem with the text. I thought it was just me.

Back on topic:

I have yet to hear a single argument against gay marriage that didn't - upon analysis - come from somewhere hateful. It sickens me.

Posted by: Daniel Hall at November 4, 2009 6:29 PM

Dustin, brilliant piece. I salute you, sir.

And as for the rest of you - you make me proud to be a part of the Pajiba community.

I've never understood why the haters have such a problem - as far as I'm concerned, it's a basic human rights issue. LBGT people are just that - people. They're as human as anyone else. Why the hell should they not have the same rights as other human beings? My best friend is gay, and I have too many other LBGT friends to even count, so it seriously upsets me that the ignorant can deny them their rights as human beings.

Posted by: redhead at November 4, 2009 6:38 PM

Scorzi: that kicked serious ass.
I can only sit back and marvel at those who are such fine word-smiths.
Word. What she said. ;-)

Posted by: Ms MoMo at November 4, 2009 6:44 PM

i don't think wanting to impeach Obama constitutes a backwards world view...

oh right...all the little sheep love washington politicians...

Posted by: mae at November 4, 2009 7:15 PM

Wait! I have...A PLAN!!

I'll go back to Massachusetts, where the ol' ball and chain (or is that chain and chain? Is it different for us?!) and I will be wed; then, we'll drive straight up to Maine and stop at the first house we see.

We'll knock on the door; if a child answers we will ask if an adult is home (if there is not one home, we'll move on).

When an adult comes to the door, I will ask him or her if he or she is married to a her or him, respectively. If he or she answers in the affirmative, I will ask him or her what their position is on letting people of the same sex marry each other. If the answerer is not married, we'll move on. If the answerer had a child answer the door and is not married, we will inquire as to the parentage of the child. If the person answering the door is a parent of that child and is not married to the other parent of the child and the other parent is living, we will immediately insist upon a marriage of the parent couple, because children have to be protected by the sanctity of man-woman marriage. If the parents are apart due to an abuse situation, we will have to find a judge to weigh the damage done by abuse against the damage done by not having mommy and daddy married. If the unmarried parents are of two different races, we'll call that one jagoff judge, obviously.

If he or she responds that marriage is for a man and woman only, I will tell him or her that I've just been gay married and as a consequence, his or her marriage to his wife or her husband has been randomly selected, sadly, to be a casualty of the "clear" and popularly-judged "fact" that gay marriage has a negative impact on straight marriage. I will then ruin his or her marriage in that inimitable queer way: simply by existing.

It's so...simple. I cannot believe it took me this long to think of it.

Posted by: Nora Rocket at November 4, 2009 7:19 PM

dude, you forgot mulholland drive.

oh wait.

Posted by: gp at November 4, 2009 7:23 PM

Delurking for a moment.

Basic Rights Oregon started an initiative drive yesterday to repeal the state constitutional ban on gay marriage. It passed in 2004, when Dubya was re-elected by the fuckwits of this country. By the end of that election night, my friends and I were stone drunk and planning to secede from the rest of Oregon. There was also some kind of plan to install some kind of testicular zappers on non-residents of our new Cascadia so we could keep the fuckwits out. (Which is still not a terrible plan.)

Anyway, the comments posted on the local newspaper's website yesterday were predictably horrifying, ranting about "perverts" and worse. Stomach-churning stuff.

Bad on Maine, bad on CA last year . . . but reading people's comments here on Pajiba gives me hope. The anger at people's small-minded stupidity doesn't go away, but knowing that others feel the same really does help.

And @scorzi, that Philip Spooner thing is amazing.

Posted by: LauraP at November 4, 2009 7:40 PM

I loved this post...loved it loved it loved it! I've always been a fan of how tv and movies bring "scary" concepts to the comfort of someone's home so they can learn about it and hopefully grow more open minded. My grandparents learned to be ok with black people because of Flip Wilson - hopefully the same will work for people who need to learn to be ok with gay people.

Posted by: Corina at November 4, 2009 7:44 PM

I’m not entirely sure, either, until an older generation of people begin to die off, how long it’s going to take us to get a law voted on in this country to legalize same-sex marriage.

Never going to happen, not in any of our lifetimes at least. Because no matter how many of the old farts die, newer, younger blood just takes their place, and hates gays just as much as them, maybe even a little more.

Hell, I know 16 year olds who hate gays more than just about any 60 year old. To stop this kind of bigotry will take far greater action than anything any mass group of gays have done so far. And I sure as hell don't know what'll stop it.

Posted by: George at November 4, 2009 7:48 PM

Welcome, not-so-great State of Maine to the League of other not-so-great States. Here in Arizona, we not only put anti-gayness in our Constitution, but about 20 years ago, we rejected having a holiday for MLK.

We just gotta wait for the old bigots to die out. The poll numbers can only go in one direction now.

Posted by: Leftylad at November 4, 2009 8:00 PM

NotesOnMyBathroomMirror: sing it. Waiting for the haters go away is the easy answer and the one that will not deliver a just and fair outcome any time soon. All it took in the end was 3% to decide the vote. Had the numbers fallen 53:47 in favour of retaining gay marriage, would we be celebrating Maine’s tolerance? That would still equal 47% of voters who fail to see their fellow citizens as deserving of the basic traditions of human society.

No matter how the vote turned out, the process of
-telling stories like Scorzi’ and Notes to as many opponents as possible,
-listening and engaging counter arguments in a respectful way, however disrespectful they may be presented
-appealing to fundamental human compassion
-engaging the pro marriage non-voters to get off their backsides and to the polls,

…doesn’t stop until the hearts and minds are as close to 100:0 as the hardcore haters will allow. They are a smaller share of the vote than most people- including them- realise.

Posted by: Squirrelgripper at November 4, 2009 8:16 PM

If you want to fist pump Philip Spooner for his speech, watch the youtube clip here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GrEbJBFWIPk

Posted by: scorzi at November 4, 2009 8:32 PM

This post was brilliant. Brilliant, I say.

Being a Californian, I know how you Maine-folk feel (Maine-ennites?) I'll be interested to see what the political fall out from the vote is. Here in California it was "blame the black people." And let me tell you, as a "black people" that shit pissed me off. I live a stone's throw from West Hollywood. On the day of the election, there were people standing around waving rainbow flags on the streets of Santa Monica Blvd. while the damn Mormons were sending missionaries to predominately black neighborhoods and filling their heads with lies. Saying shit like, they will teach your children to be gay in school, and using children in ads talking about "my dad is my mom, zomg! i'm so confused!"

And then what happened? It became a gays against black people thing, and the conservative fuckwits sat back with their bucket of popcorn (and their lube, in case they felt the need to visit a local airport bathroom) and laughed and laughed.

The truth of the matter is that the Prop 8ers were grossly disorganized because they thought they had it in the bag. I called the Prop 8 headquarters multiple times in an effort to figure out what I could do to help. I got no response. No one ever answered the phone or returned my call.

Prop 8 passed because the Mormons were more organized. Period, space bar. It also didn't help that Gavin Newsom was acting like a dingdong.

But the heartening thing is that I remember reading that after the passage of Prop 8, the people who voted for it already were beginning to regret their vote, once they had true information about what the fuck it was they were voting for.

Frankly, it was confusing. "So if I vote Yes on 8 am I voting for or against gay marriage?" Hell, even I had to pause in the voting booth before I made my choice. Then again, I drink a lot.

I think the real issue is education, and like scorzi said, telling people that if the homos down the street get married, it has nothing to do with you!

I must say, however, that some black folks... especially older black folks from the civil rights era get pissed off when gays compare their struggle to the civil rights struggle. Don't get me wrong, I think it's the same thing. But a lot of black folks think it's a "y'all haven't had to struggle long enough" type thing. So "the gays" have that aspect to deal with as well.

But to battle that notion, just point people to the case to which scorzi referred, Loving v. Virginia. The old anti-miscegenation laws are the same as the anti-same sex marriage laws. (I'm a cultural biproduct of dirty miscegenators who got married in 1967... when the Supremes decided Loving v. Virginia ... my mom is a white Jew and my dad is a black catholic... but I'm adopted which makes me hopelessly corn-fused.)

The main issue, however, is battling these ridiculous notions being put forth by the GOP and fucktards like Bill O'Reilly that if gay people are allowed to get married, then it means everyone is going to start marrying turtles.

Well, on second thought, that last bit is true. I for one have a cute fucking turtle that I've got my eye on.

Posted by: stopthemadness at November 4, 2009 8:34 PM

A modest proposal ...

How about "civil unions" for everyone? That is everyone who can demonstrate a degree of sense & sensibility at least equivalent to, say, a pair of Hummel figurines. This would rule out most couples immediately. If they weren't batshit crazy before, have you seen what happens to people in the throws of being in the throws?

As for "married" get the to holy ground. Isn't "married" a religious institution, between you and your Godtopus? So, if some collection of the faith infected want to believe that "marriage" is only between a man, a hot lesbian vampire and a super intelligent shade of blue, isn't that their business? Not my thing, but ... well ... can I maybe watch? Some shades of blue just do it for me. No that I'm looking to get married.

If you want friends and family to throw a party, get dressed up & kick in loot, well they get a vote. I mean an actual vote. And no "one over 50% and we're in" nonsense. At least 2 out of 3 in favor, and no violent objections, or back to the shacking up for you. If you can't convince 2/3 of your friends that it's a good idea, you're doomed anyway. If you're unwilling to bribe the last hold outs into playing along, well, how committed are you? Just sayin.

Kidding aside, I'm not really kidding.

Posted by: BierceAmbrose at November 4, 2009 9:01 PM

George >> Cheer up. You're wrong on that count, I believe. As I said above, the numbers don't lie. Yes, there will be some younger ones to replace the old, as your anecdotal evidence suggests, but the sentiment is trending against the replacement's maintaining the status quo with constant numbers. Check out those links from fivethirtyeight.com that I posted above. The truth is that if you're younger you've been more exposed to tolerance of homosexuality than the old folks. In that respect, thank goodness for Will & Grace, The Simpsons, and other television shows, as well as all these fine films that Dustin mentions.

stopthemadness >> Well said. The next time someone tries to claim ethnicity drove the Prop 8 vote, refer them to those fivethirtyeight.com links I posted above. As I suspected, in his study ethnicity was a variable that washed out and left this issue completely driven by religiosity (a somewhat codependent variable for ethnicity) and age.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at November 4, 2009 9:16 PM

Whether you just tolerate lezzes and queers or are actually in favor of fags and dykes getting married it should be fairly obvious that the seduction scene in Brokeback Mountain sucked or rather didn't. They just went, excuse the expression, straight to anal. A much more believable movie was Desert Hearts where a cowgirl, Patricia Charbonneau has a far more believable scene starting a relationship with a new divorcee, Helen Shaver. It was made 23 years ago and hasn't been bettered. Here's a somewhat gushy account of the movie but don't be put off by it and actually see the movie. I think you'll agree it was a superior movie.

Posted by: OscarTamerz at November 4, 2009 9:41 PM

stopthemadness, I agree with much of what you said, but I have to take some issue with this:

I must say, however, that some black folks... especially older black folks from the civil rights era get pissed off when gays compare their struggle to the civil rights struggle. Don't get me wrong, I think it's the same thing.

In many important respects, it's not the same thing. While I would never dismiss the pain and frustration that gays feel at the attempts by some in the larger society to marginalize them, those black civil rights leaders are veterans of a time when their people were being actively and systematically subjugated in their attempt to obtain (in my opinion) much more basic civil rights than the right to marry. To boil it down, they were fighting for the right just to move about freely, which in the context of this country's history was a far more titanic upheaval.

I'm for gay marriage in the social libertarian sense that I don't care what consenting adults want to do. But I also happen to think that civil unions would accomplish 90% of the "moving about freely" civil rights aspects similar to those the old warriors were agitating for. Not to be what Malcolm X would have derisively termed "incrementalist" -- but it would have been nice to see some more successes than we're seeing with the push for all-out marriage.

Posted by: sansho1 at November 4, 2009 11:19 PM

Someone mentioned above that they'd only heard anti gay marriage arguments that stemmed from hatred. I've heard one argument that does not:

Gay people already HAVE the same rights to marriage as straight people. Everyone (gay, straight, bisexual) has the right to marry a person of the opposite sex and no one has the right to marry a person of the same sex. The argument I read was that gay marriage advocates were actually trying to ADD rights for gay people.

Now, I believe we should all be able to marry the person of our own choosing, be they male, female, whatever. And I was completely outraged and felt really hopeless after Prop 8 passed here in CA, but this argument actually made me pause and think "huh, I guess that's true." However, the argument came from a pro gay marriage opinion piece proposing it as the only logical one to argue. Which is why its not hateful.

Posted by: Rachel at November 5, 2009 1:24 AM

As a registered Republican, I couldn't possibly give less of a fuck who sleeps with who. I thought the very idea of conservatism was you mind your own fucking business and I'll mind mine. Why I voted Libertarian last time.

"Bound" is the tits. One of my favorites.

Posted by: , (TCFKAB) at November 5, 2009 1:30 AM

Rachel >> I've heard that one too, and it's silly claptrap tautological semantics. I'll move the words around and make a similar point for the other side of the argument.

Currently, a woman has the right to marry a man. I do not have the right to marry a man. Likewise, a man has the right to marry a woman, but you do not have the same right to marry a woman. Therefore, traditional marriage laws are sexist and violate equal rights on the basis of gender, as they do not grant the same rights to men and women. Given the legal definition of marriage, the way that I just parsed the situation is every bit as valid as the word choice that you cited.

Regardless, this sort of argument isn't important. It isn't about semantics. It's about common sense, equal rights, and the supposed pursuit of happiness that this country encourages.

So, yeah, as it stands I'm still waiting for an argument that isn't rooted in prejudice, ignorance, or religious dogma that infringes upon the separation of church and state.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at November 5, 2009 3:05 AM

Ok.....I may get destroyed for this...but....

I think that the only way this "movement" is going to get going is if the people whining and complaining about the outcomes of votes ( BIG mistake ) and the blew up in your face results of taking the end route by using activist judges just makes the "narrow minded assholes" angrier. The people on the far right aren't going to be won...no more than you are ready to let them have prayer in school...so just forget about them...

Perhaps you should shift the blame to the "leadership" of these groups claiming to be advocating your cause. Education is the only way to get the people on the fence over to you...and screaming in the streets wearing feather boas and chaps isn't exactly the education I am talking about. People are afraid of change...you CANNOT jam change down their throats and expect them to take it lightly.

Try explaining to these people that it isn't about equality, just common sense. Don't play the victim, just go out there and be as civilized as you expect your opposition to be. Almost everyone I speak to is tired of the lies and negativity of politicians and special interest groups. Give the moderate people the benefit of the doubt and stop trashing THEM when the methods of the very people you trust your issues to are amateur and heavy-handed at best.

Like I said...forget the "religious nut jobs" and focus on peoples minds you CAN change. It will make your jobs easier and bring about the change you want sooner.

Posted by: Mr. Poopy Pants at November 5, 2009 10:27 AM

I'm not sure I understand why anyone gives a shit about same sex marriage. If a dude wants to marry a dude, why is it anyone else's business? I just don't get it. Sodomy don't bodda me (Is that a Mel Brooks line?). On a more important note, I have the same problem with the text noted by Ms MoMo.

Posted by: sosumi at November 5, 2009 10:49 AM

Ah, same-sex marriage. We won't be talking about this in Chile until people chill the fuck out about the morning-after pill, say in... 10 years or so.

Posted by: Sofía at November 5, 2009 12:30 PM

I dunno... I didn't get the vibe of "true love" off of the shepherds in Brokeback. I mean not until after certain tragic events. But the beginning of their relationship seemed like two horny dudes violently rutting.

Also, I think I laughed more than I was supposed to during that movie. Mostly the scene where Michelle Williams figures out what's going on.

Posted by: Tanner at November 5, 2009 2:01 PM

Check out The Defenders on YouTube. It's a video of traditional marriage defenders celebrating the defeat of gay marriage but finding out "traditional values" leaders may also want to enforce the rest of the bible. Even Deuteronomy 22:20,21 which mandates the stoning of any woman found not to be a virgin on her wedding night in front of her father's house by all the men of the town.



Posted by: Jiffyzen at November 5, 2009 5:26 PM

There is a magical place where the gays can live together in peace and harmony without fear of discrimination and chaffed thighs. I believe it is called Europe. Check it out sometime between your butt humping. You sassy thing, you.

Annnnnnnnnnd, snap!

Posted by: fitzwilly at November 5, 2009 6:59 PM

sansho1- well-said. i can agree with that.

fitzwilly- did you bend before you snapped? because if not, that snap was out of order.

so says reese witherspoon.

so say we all.

Posted by: stopthemadness at November 5, 2009 9:53 PM

ah, Dustin, you butt fiend :) you have made a 9 month pregnant lady's day somewhat bearable.

Posted by: icravefreshbrains at November 6, 2009 12:20 AM

Okay, so I agree with all your movie choices, but what about The Birdcage???!!!??! That film is sooo fucking fun, and it has "We are Family" in it. Perfect, really.

Posted by: Poushali at November 27, 2009 1:03 AM

You laugh, but back when I was a suburbanite conservative Christian teenage asshole, Brokeback Mountain really did change my mind.

Posted by: edithkeelermustdie at December 17, 2009 12:35 PM





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