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Toy Story 3 and the Pointless Idiocy of Rotten Tomatoes

By Dustin Rowles | Posted Under Box Office Round-Ups | Comments (101)



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Despite the harsh criticism our own Dan Carlson leveled at Toy Story 3 — insinuating that it wasn’t as good as other Pixar films (gasp!) and that it often felt “too pedestrian to have sprung from the creative well that’s made some of the best animated films of all time” (ouch!) — somehow the Disney/Pixar machine suffered the stinging rebukes and withering criticism to put up $109 million over the weekend. I’d have felt terrible if Dan’s review had somehow prevented Pixar from its biggest opening of all time. I think the next time a reviewer here suggests that a movie doesn’t quite live up to the unprecedented standards of its predecessors, we’ll probably have to just shoot that critic in the head and find someone more likely to agree with Roger Ebert, who suggested that Toy Story 3 lacked “the almost eerie humanity that infused the earlier Toy Story saga,” or The Philadelphia Inquirer, which wrote that “the glow of originality has dissipated.”

Oh, wait … doesn’t that approximate what Dan said? And aren’t Ebert and Steven Rea on RottenTomatoes? Oh, you mean: They had reservations about the film and their reviews still counted toward the 98 percent approval rating? Hmph. I guess I didn’t understand how Rotten Tomatoes worked. I thought if it had a 98 percent approval rating, then 98 percent of critics loved it unconditionally. You mean to tell me that some of the reviews that inform the Tomatometer have words? With thoughts and quibbles and reservations? Oh, that’s absurd! Why would anyone want to read the thoughts of a critic when a percentage number tells us all we need to know? I hate to think that Dan’s review, which so many of you disagreed with, might have provoked a thought or two or generated any sort of discussion. That’s why I prefer the Tomatometer: You can’t argue with percentage numbers, people! They’re infallible! It’s science. And who would want to have a thoughtful discussion when it’s so much easier to point to an RT number?

In fact, I think we should probably start assigning stars or grades to our reviews, too. So people don’t have to bother with the words … so many letters! Nuance is for pussies! What would you say, Dan? That about a two-and-a-half star review? So, a half star difference between yours and Ebert’s assessment, and Ebert is part of the 98 percent approval. How is it possible that only a half star separates Dan and Ebert, and yet Ebert is part of the 98 percent, while Dan would be part of the 2 percent? Oh, that makes my brain hurt, and obviously, I don’t like to put a lot of effort into thought, which is why I use the Tomatometer in the first place. Amirite?

Meanwhile, Jonah Hex tanked at the box office, debuting at number eight this week, amassing a paltry $5 million, making it one of the biggest bombs in box-office history. That’s obviously because the critics hated it because if the critics hate it, then it has no chance in hell (am I right, Transformers?) Hex only scored a 14 percent on the Tomatometer, which must mean it was only 14 percent good, based on my understanding of the Tomatometer. And yet, Prisco’s review suggested it was zero percent good. I guess we should probably fire him, too, since his opinion didn’t sync perfectly with the rest of the reviewing community.

In fact, from now on: New Pajiba Policy! We wait until all the other reviews are out, and then we write a review to suit the Tomatometer reading. And then we write a second one to sync with the Metacritic ratings. And then, a third one for all those people who disagree with RT and Metacritic. And then a fourth review as a rebuttal. And, because the burden is on the critic to demonstrate that it’s a bad movie and not on the movie to demonstrate that it’s good, only if the evidence that a movie is bad is beyond a reasonable doubt will we give it a bad review.

To infinity and beyond!









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Comments

"And, because the burden is on the critic to demonstrate that it’s a bad movie and not on the movie to demonstrate that it’s good, only if the evidence that a movie is bad is beyond a reasonable doubt will we give it a bad review."

Ah, lawyerisms. I love it.

And I do believe it's "amirite."

Posted by: Mick J at June 20, 2010 9:11 PM

A+.

Posted by: meaux at June 20, 2010 9:11 PM

I less than three this new direction for Pajiba.

Can you set up a webcast for these critic-firings so we can watch?

Posted by: Jerce at June 20, 2010 9:11 PM

My favorite part of seeing Toy Story 3 was the chorus of screams and howling that swallowed the film when the children JUST COULDN'T TAKE GLOOM ANYMORE.

Just kidding, my favorite part was the amazing short at the beginning on the film - now that was great use of 3D.

As for the review, I'm with you there. And seeing the movie was only appearing in 3D was almost, but not quite, enough to make me not see it. Bad Pixar films are still better than good Dreamworks films.

Posted by: ThingOfThings at June 20, 2010 9:13 PM

I believe that the Rotten Tomatoes rating was due to the specific review of one Armond White, a critic for NY Press, and a notorious contrarian. His review wasn't a "It was good but I have reservations" but a _ this movie is a piece of unholy shite that must be killed with fire."

Posted by: Withnails at June 20, 2010 9:19 PM

...See my most recent comment in the Toy Story thread for my response to this post.

Posted by: ChristianH at June 20, 2010 9:19 PM

seeing the movie was only appearing in 3D was almost, but not quite, enough to make me not see it.

I don't know what theaters you're going to. I saw it in 2D. Everyone else I know did to. No one wanted to shell out the dough for the glasses.

Posted by: ChristianH at June 20, 2010 9:24 PM

Whoa. Too much sarcasm for a Sunday night. I can't process.

Out of curiosity, what would Pajiba use as a rating scale? Not stars or numbers, that's too cliche. Tentacles, maybe?

Posted by: MelBivDevoe at June 20, 2010 9:26 PM

Pajiba's star system would be human centipedes. They would be connected and the 'half' would be a dead one.

Posted by: Schlegel at June 20, 2010 9:37 PM

Sounds as if someone feels aggrieved at their chosen profession being broken down to simple fruit.

Maybe what critics should do is chose one finger out of their hands to stand for their 2000-word essay on a movie's quality. Maybe even a change in the finger's position can sum up a critic's whole vision of whether the masses should make a movie a hit or a bomb.

Posted by: Fredo at June 20, 2010 9:40 PM

Honestly, I tried to avoid the slings and arrows that Dan's review brought up, but here's a quick thought: You don't have to wholeheartedly approve of something to like it. Hell, I like Glee, and I still think there are moments where the show sucks. But you know what? The parts that I like are better than the parts I didn't like; therefore, I like it! It's called critical thinking, and it's what allows us to make rational decisions.

I haven't seen Toy Story 3, so I don't know yet if I agree with Dan's review or not. Hell, I'm gonna be going into this expecting it to be just as good as all their other movies. Maybe that's what he was talking about: we expect a great movie. It's like opening your Christmas presents early: Sure, they're still good presents, but the surprise is gone. That was part of the appeal of How To Train Your Dragon; I thought it was going to suck, but guess what? It was amazing!

So yeah, Dan went to see a movie expecting it to be great, and instead, he got a good movie. It wasn't what he expected, but from what I gleaned from what was essentially a pretty positive (if not shining, glorying) review, he still liked it despite that it wasn't what he thought he was getting. So he expressed his disappointment. Wow, that asshole. How does he sleep at night? How dare he have an opinion that doesn't reflect exactly my own! BURN THE WITCH!

Well, it's official: you will never be able to enjoy Toy Story 3 because Dan forced you to think exactly the way he thinks. Because that's how subjective reviews work, right? Sucks to be you.

Posted by: Jeremy Feist at June 20, 2010 9:40 PM

And now look who's unhappy their review wasn't well received! Just as you are allowed to not like a movie, readers are allowed to not like a review.

It's Toy Story 3! Chill out.

Posted by: Spoons at June 20, 2010 9:42 PM

God, please don't start this shit again.

Posted by: ChristianH at June 20, 2010 9:51 PM

www.youshouldtotallyapologizetotoystory3.com

Posted by: stopthemadness at June 20, 2010 10:01 PM

Second.

Posted by: Ken Hart at June 20, 2010 10:02 PM

I love you, Dustin. That's what I had been trying to say all along: one, Dan didn't HATE it, he just expected more (GOD FORBID), and two, positive numbers on Rotten Tomatoes really don't mean shit. All you have to do to make it 'positive' is not hate it. And who would hate that movie?

I don't understand what kind of asshole would think that Dan was saying "DON'T WATCH IT! GRR!" in his review. Probably just people who want to fight at anything.

And as for Jonah Hex, well, what did anyone expect, exactly? Why would *ANYONE* watch that movie?

1) fans of the comic book were disgusted by the trailers
2) Megan Fox's fans don't watch her movies, they buy her magazine covers
3) Josh Brolin fans are disgusted and don't exactly equal big dollars
4) the trailers gave no clue as to wtf it was about
5) Wild Wild West sucked, too.

So why anyone would go watch it is beyond me. I'm glad it tanked so badly. Let them learn that comic book =/= movie GOLD.

I vote we go back to an old idea and rate based on Superstars.

Posted by: figgy at June 20, 2010 10:07 PM

Holy bald headed Jesus Christ, Dustin, I check out Rotten Tomatoes too, but (like most Pajibans, I suspect) I read the reviews, especially the "trusted" ones, just as I read the reviews here. Sure, some commenters here quote the Tomatometer, but then again some people here use language better suited to the IMDB forums. I didn't know we were supposed to be exclusive, but sorry, babe, I want an open relationship.

Posted by: Uriah Creep at June 20, 2010 10:07 PM

My parents used to play Monkees records to drown out their love-making. I didn't realize this until the day I walked in on them. Now I sob uncontrollably every time I hear "Daydream Believer".

I'm sorry, what was the question?

Posted by: Leftylad at June 20, 2010 10:08 PM

Geez, why don't you guys just drop to your damn knees and start slobbing Pixar's CGI-animated knob, for fuck's sake? And beg for it to bank little digital blip sperms into your mouths while you're at it? Christ, you sound like a bunch of studio shills.

Posted by: Case at June 20, 2010 10:13 PM

Wow. You knock TS3, then get pissy with your readers about them disagreeing with the review.

No wonder I check this site less and less. It's ripe with negativity.

Posted by: Doom70 at June 20, 2010 10:36 PM

TL;DR
Could someone rate this post so i know how to feel about it?

Ha haaa. (i'm gonna get banned, aren't i?)

Posted by: Scott at June 20, 2010 10:47 PM

this post makes you look like a big ol'pussy

Posted by: gilp at June 20, 2010 10:48 PM

Figgy, honestly, as a fan of your work normally:

You just literally said what Dustin said. Exactly.

Posted by: ChristianH at June 20, 2010 10:50 PM

It's ripe with negativity.

I love the smell of negativity in the morning. Or even on Sunday evening.

And I LOVE it when Dustin gets riled up!!

Posted by: MM at June 20, 2010 10:50 PM

Geez, why don't you guys just drop to your damn knees and start slobbing Pixar's CGI-animated knob, for fuck's sake? And beg for it to bank little digital blip sperms into your mouths while you're at it? Christ, you sound like a bunch of studio shills.

Posted by: Case at June 20, 2010 10:13 PM


Trollllllllllllllllllllllllllll

Posted by: ChristianH at June 20, 2010 10:52 PM

"so many letters!"?

Really? Straight out of Amadeus. Don't compare your reviews to Mozart's masterpieces. You aren't misunderstood geniuses; you're critics, albeit good ones. Stop taking the ever-widening population of your readers seriously. With every additional one, the collective IQ goes down, not up.

Posted by: Scott at June 20, 2010 11:31 PM

Wow, after reading that I feel ashamed, but I am pretty sure I didn't do anything.

Posted by: CatTdragon at June 20, 2010 11:32 PM

Sounds like Dustin's butthurt that people thought Dan was full of it. God forbid everyone on this site not immediately start tossin' salads and offering positions for paying gigs at every reviewer here.

Believe it or not, for this hobby to grow into a living, you might have to start including people who disagree, or even dislike, some of the reviewers and/or commentators!

I for one refuse to say Godtopus, Murdertank, or *describe an action even though I'm writing something* except under sarcasm or situations where my family is kidnapped.

Oh, and Case? 4chan is right over there...

Posted by: Asshole McGee at June 20, 2010 11:33 PM

The problem with sarcasm is that it distorts your point and the point you are arguing against. Now maybe I'm not picking up on all the nuance in this box office roundup but it comes off a little bit insulting to the readers and commenters who questioned Dan's negative review of Toy Story 3. Sure, even Pajiba has its fair share of stupidity in the comments (on both sides of this issue) but a lot of the criticism of that review and defense of Toy Story 3 was perfectly reasonable and valid.

Your readers are intelligent enough to understand the inherent limitations of binary tomato ratings. They value the details and analysis that good film criticism can bring. We trust Pajiba to be interesting and more often than no to be in line with our tastes and preferences. That's what makes reading a Pajiba review valuable to us.

The problem with the Toy Story 3 review is that it isn't in line with the tastes and opinions of a lot of regular readers. I would bet that a majority of Pajibans who actually go see the film will come away with a very different take on the film than the official review. The comments aren't because people want simplicity and can't thinking for themselves (or because they want oral sex with an animation studio) it's because they are thinking for themselves, questioning the review, and arguing it in the comments. That's a good thing. And he overwhelming critical reception of the film is an important point in that argument (even if the metric it was stated in is flawed and Pajibans by definition hold mainstream film criticism in contempt).

Dan is still entitled to his opinion, It isn't about shouting down his negative review of a popular movie it's about raising questions and criticizing the criticism. Don't get so defensive.

Posted by: Yossarian at June 20, 2010 11:45 PM

Credit where credit is due, l think Yossarian has just made the smartest response this whole weekend. Respect.

Posted by: Asshole McGee at June 20, 2010 11:56 PM

Yossarian, that was awesome.

Posted by: Mick J at June 21, 2010 12:10 AM

I'm one of he people that e-mailed Dustin complaining about the review, I thought it was a shit review for a really good movie and I wanted one Dustin or someone else here to review it. I completely disagreed with damn near every word Carlson wrote. I think that the review was snarky and bitter for no reason, like he just wanted to hate it. The reasons he gave hold no water, and if he just "didn't like it as much as the others" then why give the review such a bitchy, negative title?

I'm no slave to Pixar, Pixar is Disney and I think Disney is evil. I fucking hated Cars and I wouldn't watch Up again if you paid me.

I don't care about it's rotten tomato score but I do care about this site being credible. I thought that review was crap. I don't want my favorite movie site to have that as it's only review, that's my opinion and I'm entitled.

I loved TS3. I cried my eyes out, I laughed my ass off, I was legitimately thrilled and throughly entertained. I thought it was easily the best movie I've seen this year, including festival films. HTTYD is a close second and The Vicious Kind with Adam Scott is third.

I wanted to read a decent review that I feel like did the movie I saw justice. I wanted to read about poignant things I may have missed or the feeling of inevitable loss that every parent watching it would feel. Alas...

I still love coming here and commenting here and that won't change, but damn folks what did you expect? Did you honestly think that people weren't gonna call you out for that one?

Posted by: Mebe at June 21, 2010 12:24 AM

If a film's trailer is a keyhole through which we glimpse what's to come, then the trailer for Jonah Hex was a quivering little anus showing the feces lurking ominously within. Megan Fox's voice and the double saddle Gatlings were the shiny corn kernels poking out of the brown mass beyond, alerting us to the presence of used food.

Posted by: laredo at June 21, 2010 12:25 AM

Yossarian: Exactly what you said, thanks for saying it so well. :)

Posted by: Mebe at June 21, 2010 12:28 AM

Well I for one can't wait for all this to blow over.

Bring on Transformers 3...

Posted by: seraf at June 21, 2010 12:37 AM

That's what Yossarian does. Brings clarity. Hurrah!

That being said, I don't think I've ever seen a stand-alone defense of a review on this site. Maybe I'm wrong and missed one or two. But I think it's a first.

For anyone whinging about "MEH, I don't LIKE Pajiba, too NEGATIVE, y'all are all big dumbs!" then I'd suggest the internet is a great big place and maybe find something more to your pleasing.

Posted by: Snuggiepants at June 21, 2010 12:41 AM

Oh, come on. You know EXACTLY how RT works. Don't act like you don't.

Also: Yossarian stands for me. Well said.

Posted by: , at June 21, 2010 12:42 AM

ChristianH

Figgy did not "literally, exactly" say what Dustin said. Or rather wrote what Dustin wrote. Check out the two texts. They are not "literally, exactly" the same.

Posted by: Snuggiepants at June 21, 2010 12:43 AM

The worst thing about Toy Story was the atrocious trailer for Tangled. God that movie looks like shit!

Chuck's voice is irritating and a better actor would have made those lines work.

Posted by: Mebe at June 21, 2010 12:44 AM

Team Dustin! (and Dan)

Posted by: Alarmjaguar at June 21, 2010 12:52 AM

why so angry at tomatoes, and, more importantly, who cares about tomatoes? I come here for my movie reviews, book reviews and general amusement.
fuck tomatoes.

Posted by: courtney at June 21, 2010 12:56 AM

When can we talk about the movie? I want to talk about that scene at the beginning where they address the toys that have been lost *sniff* and the scene at the end where they are all holding hands *sob* and how fucking hilarious Ken is.

Posted by: Mebe at June 21, 2010 12:56 AM

Team Dustin? Wait, did Dustin not like it either!?! WTF! Dustin you have a kid, how were you not a sobbing mess?

Posted by: Mebe at June 21, 2010 12:58 AM

Well Mebe as soon as the Eloquent approved do-over review is done, you can probably discuss it there.

Can somebody explain to be how Yossarian's comment is all that and a bag of chips? Dustin was addressing a particular set of commenters who were indeed using Rotten Tomatoes to justify slamming his review, saying that because the score was so high, Dan should have done a more positive review. Of course, he did it in his own Dustin-ish way, and we should all know by now that Dustin loves antagonizing the villagers. He feeds off that shit.

And are people really asking for a do-over of the review? Really? Don't you think that might be a bit...overdramatic?

Posted by: Vermillion at June 21, 2010 1:10 AM

This article on backlash is perfect!

http://jezebel.com/5567865/on-lady-gaga-megan-fox-and-the-inevitability-of-the-backlash

lol at the last sentence.

Posted by: Mebe at June 21, 2010 1:11 AM

Yossarian called us intelligent (we like it when people talk sweet to us) and pointed out that Dan is in the teeny, tiny minority of people who didn't like it.

Yossarian was diplomatic and summed up what a lot of readers were feeling but couldn't figure out how to say.

The Toy Story trilogy is one of the great movie trilogies, that is now and will be remembered as fact.

Posted by: Mebe at June 21, 2010 1:22 AM

You Go Girl! Um.. Boy.. Um... Dustin...!

Posted by: SarahReznor at June 21, 2010 1:37 AM

Snuggie is literally, exactly correct.

Posted by: figgy at June 21, 2010 2:03 AM

Pajiba's rating system should be whips. Instead of half-whips, nipple clamps.

So a piece of elephant dung such as Jonah Hex would get one whip and a nipple clamp (the clamp's for the makeup job).

Posted by: The Wanderer at June 21, 2010 2:05 AM

This article on backlash is perfect!
http://jezebel.com/5567865/on-lady-gaga-megan-fox-and-the-inevitability-of-the-backlash
lol at the last sentence.
Posted by: Mebe at June 21, 2010 1:11 AM

I'm going to disagree with this article and your praise of it based on the following contentions:

1) Too often, people mistake criticism of something that's successful as a "backlash," because that term is an easy way for insecure people to not feel guilty about loving something others criticize. It's a shield. "Oh, clearly they are hating because ___ is successful and overexposed." This guards against criticisms. I don't hate listening to Lady Gaga or watching movies starring Megan Fox because they're famous; I genuinely dislike the work they do, and feel that spending time indulging in their work is a waste that I don't enjoy and therefore I'm not interested. When people defend these positions too harshly, or when a perceived backlash sometimes occurs, is when people counter what they see as criticisms of themselves (through celebrities they like) by using hyperbole that they may themselves believe (ie "OMG you guys, Megan Fox is so HOT!", etc.), and those who disagree feel as if they're being pressured or attacked, which is admittedly irrational but simply how it feels. Most of the "backlashes" in this article are based on honest criticisms: In some peoples' opinion, Lady Gaga's music isn't good, Megan Fox isn't a good actress, etc.

2) When the article makes a surprisingly passive jab at patriarchal society, saying that "most of the major backlashes in American pop culture as of late have been aimed at women," only to mostly drop that point almost as if they'd never said it, they miss the mark, at least in their chosen examples. The reason Megan Fox is hurt more than Josh Brolin by the failure of Jonah Hex is that he's had a long, very well-respected career. Megan Fox has yet to appear in a film receiving anything above mixed praise from critics (and that's being polite). And the reason the Kanye West backlash was shorter-lived than, say, the Gaga "backlash" is that he's had a reputation as an asshole since he first tried his hand at rapping. It's one of the defining traits of Kanye West; he is a privileged asshole, but one who has been around as an asshole and paid for it in the press before. It doesn't hurt that he is widely respected as a musician, and response to that incident had nothing to do with his work as an artist, but his personal issues. Lady Gaga has produced one album, and has spent her year or two in celebrity status dressing like a maniac and trying to out-weird herself on an almost daily basis. But that is peripheral when considering her music, while it's received praise from some, still does not carry the weight of some of West's earlier, or even later, work. In short, she hasn't put in the work to get past the critics unharmed.

All of which is to say: I disagree.

Posted by: ChristianH at June 21, 2010 2:06 AM

Also, apologies, Figgy, for misrepresenting you via superlatives and hyperbole. I should have said you wrote essentially the same thing, in the same sarcastic tone, to the same effect, providing little dialogue not contained, summarized, or implied in the above post. Sincerely, I apologize. You deserve better than that.

Posted by: ChristianH at June 21, 2010 2:10 AM

I posted the article b/c i agree with it's general argument, not because of why people like or don't like the celebrities mentioned. I don't really care about that.

I

Overall, I thought the article fit and that the last line was funny.

Posted by: Mebe at June 21, 2010 2:54 AM

The Toy Story trilogy is one of the great movie trilogies, that is now and will be remembered as fact.

I think you mean "opinion."

Posted by: stopthemadness at June 21, 2010 2:59 AM

It's not an opinion, it's statistics.

Posted by: Mebe at June 21, 2010 3:17 AM

I think you're overreacting. Yeah, Rottentomatoes lists reviews as "Fresh" or "Rotten", even if the reviews contain elements of both; they're still fundamentally one or the other, overall. Your guy's still saying Toy Story 3 Is A Good Movie, isn't he? All RT does is confirm that, yep, another guy thought it was good. Perfect? Nah. But then, I actually *read* the stuff on Rottentomatoes, I can't be the only one, and I find this out.

It's a handy way to gather reviews. So boo.

Posted by: Grafty at June 21, 2010 3:52 AM

Boy, all y'all sure are some Bitchy People.

GO FIGURE, eh?

Posted by: Rykker at June 21, 2010 5:34 AM

Myself not excluded.

Posted by: Rykker at June 21, 2010 5:36 AM

Seriously, Mebe, you want a do-over of the review?

You enjoyed the hell out of Toy Story 3, as did millions of other people, and that's great. Why the need to have Pajiba rubber-stamp the film with unconditional approval? A non-glowing review of a film you and many others adored should not be taken as a personal affront.

Y'know, sometimes a Pajiba critic will disagree with your opinion (even with the opinions of the vast majority), and that's OK. And listen, I say that as someone who unabashedly loves Robin Williams and even kind of enjoyed both Sex and the City films. It's OK for me to disagree with the majority (even though I know the most of you guys are screaming "But meaux, you're so very WRONG!"), and it's OK for Dan to not enjoy a film as much as you did.

Posted by: meaux at June 21, 2010 6:31 AM

This goddamned sonofabitch was sold out all over town and I couldn't take my daughter to see it on Father's Day. Fuck Pixar in its bloated ass.

Posted by: Kballs at June 21, 2010 9:07 AM

This is still about that family film from the big studio about the talking toys, right?

This article is a bit "sledgehammer meets walnut"- I felt much much of the reaction was fair- but at the other extreme, a not-100% review does not mean you have been given not-100% of a puppy. If I had a criticism of the review, it's that Dan might have over-explained his criticisms and under-explained his praise. It's understandable: if you're going to pick at a critical darling it pays to be clear, but it left the review feeling a little unbalanced*. It's a minor "infraction" and in no way influenced my intentions on seeing the film. If anything, it tempered my expectations going in, for which I am actually quite grateful. I get more pissed off going to a film the receives unfettered praise only to find it not quite as awesome as I was led to believe (eg Dark Knight).

*a Pajiba review rating score that can help people sort out which reviews they read and which they skip would be just AWESOME. I'd be like, Dan's review was 87% and mebe's was like, 0%, and a bunch of people can type 100% while other drop in 20 and 30% and then we can have an overall average of 57%. It's democracy AND statistics in action. You can't say fairer than that

Posted by: Squirrelgripper at June 21, 2010 9:08 AM

C'mon Mebe,

Its a critics job to voice their honest opinion, not to fall in line with consensus. Dan didn't feel the same way about the film that you did, so tough. Commentators absolutely have the right to disagree with a review, but asking for a do-over is completely out of line and, well, not going to happen.

Nothing to do with film review is 'fact'. Clearly you're in the majority in loving this film, I'll probably love it when I see it, so popular opinion is on your side. But just because most people like something doesn't everyone is obligated to agree, especially critics. Don't feel bad though, you obviouly really really really, like really love Toy Story 3, and just because somebody doesn't love what you love doesn't take anything away from the fact that it meant something to you.

Posted by: JR at June 21, 2010 9:17 AM

the review was snarky and bitter

AHA. Here's the meat of the problem. I read no snark or bitterness in the review AT ALL. It read, to me, like a thoughtful review of a film the critic was disappointed in, and was saddened by his disappointment. Further, I did not pick up anything that hinted at Mr. Carlson *wanting* to dislike the movie going in, which many of the disagreeing comments say; rather, it seemed to me that he wanted very much to enjoy the movie, and didn't.

Posted by: Anna von Beaverplatz at June 21, 2010 9:29 AM

Ugh. Enough already. Where's the Boozehound when you need him? I need a drink after all this poo-flinging.

Posted by: Tammy at June 21, 2010 9:30 AM

I genuinely dislike the stance that these comments have taken against the article that criticizes the minority backlash over the review that was marginally critical to Toy Story 3.

What is that, like, a quadruple backlash?

Yes, I'm in favor of doing that.

And, I'm insane now.

/blows head off

Posted by: gunnertec at June 21, 2010 9:36 AM

I find it endlessly amusing that a bloody Toy Story movie created any controversy at all.

It's not an opinion, it's statistics.

70% of people think that this statement accurately reflects 90% of peoples thoughts on the statistic that 100% of statistics are 78% accurate 25% of the time.

And of course: 60% of the time, statistics work every time.

Posted by: admin at June 21, 2010 10:19 AM

Ever since the Pajipoll I read these insane long strings of equally long comments and explications and think, "Of course these people read from home, who has this kind of time at work??"

Posted by: Caroline at June 21, 2010 10:32 AM

I have to say this does remind me of the shitstorm that exploded with Avatar and its numbers. Some people were all "yeah! best movie ever! look at the numbers!" and some were "yeah well if you charged $30 per ticket you'll get them" then someone went "YOU LIE ASSHOLE" then most of us went "OMGSTFU." and then it all exploded because Avatar sucked and people are stupid.

And it doesn't even matter that much. What matters is that Honduras beats the Spanish today.

THIS IS FOR 1492, BITCHES!

Posted by: figgy at June 21, 2010 10:43 AM

It's not that complicated, Vermillion, and it doesn't come with a free lunch side. I just start with an assumption that people on both sides of the issue are reasonable, intelligent, and have a good reason for feeling the way that they do even if they don't always express it flawlessly. Then I try to articulate the case of the underdog in a way that makes the majority stop and think for a moment instead of just piling on.

I don't understand why people try to be so polemic in a debate. It always ends up with two sides arguing past each other, misstating the other's position and arguing in circles. If you make a really simplistic generalization out of someones point and then discredit it you really haven't contributed anything. We don't need yet another comment about how dumb the tomato meter is, or how everyone is entitled to their opinion, or (oddly) how unimportant and insignificant the Pajiba review really is. No one thinks we need to re-review the movie.

Well... maybe mebe does kind of feel that way, but I still don't think we need the tar and feathers. I haven't seen the movie so I don't have my own opinion but I have heard a lot of word-of-mouth not just complimenting the film, but calling it great. Not since The Dark Knight or maybe The Hangover has the feedback been so universally strong. (I doubt I, personally, will enjoy it as much as TDK or Hangover, but I take notice when so many people are moved to such high praise.)

It can be kind of jarring to be so moved by an experience and have the official review at your favorite website be so nit-picky and negative. When a movie you love gets panned you want to shake the reviewer and tell him he missed the point, it's only natural. That doesn't make it OK to call them out and ask for a re-do (Dan is entitled to his review and Pajiba should stand behind it, obviously) but critical comments can be an important second opinion.

And most of you have been reading and commenting here long enough to know mebe. She's got good taste and has made a lot of valuable contributions. I give her the benefit of the doubt when she gets carried away with an emotional defense of a talking toy movie, and I pause a little longer in considering whether to see it myself because of her.

Posted by: Yossarian at June 21, 2010 11:11 AM

As a fan of some truly horrible films (Killer Klowns from Outer Space, A Bucket of Blood, Atom Age Vampire, and Lucille Ball's Mame, to name a few), I can attest to the fact that it's possible to really like something that sucks. Just because people like something doesn't make it objectively good. Opinions aren't objective; if they were, they would be called facts.

I am so mad I missed all the fun this weekend. I just know that some day, I'll have another chance to get in the fray and tear some "I didn't read the review but looked at the title and hate you and everyone who reads you" looky-loos to pieces. Sure, it will be after I'm ripped apart many times by everyone round yonder with taste for liking an exquisitely trashy and violent film that is thrown through the wood chipper macro on the reviewer's computer, but it will happen again. It always happens again.

Posted by: Robert at June 21, 2010 11:22 AM

Jeez, Rowles, jealous of other reivewers' attention much?

Whatever.

Posted by: idiosynchronic at June 21, 2010 11:24 AM

Is there room or potential civility enough in this conversation to talk about our collective warm feelings toward the franchise?

In a way, Pixar's first two outstanding Toy Story movies pave the way for the third, like a really, really long PR campaign. It's a great asset to them and an achievement on its own to have this kind of word of mouth.

Posted by: Caroline at June 21, 2010 11:29 AM

When J.K. Rowling paired Harry Potter with Ginny toward the end of the series, some fans were OUTRAGED that Harry didn't end up with Hermione, and started an online petition that the Harry Potter series be taken away from Rowling and given to an author who would support the fan 'ship.

I don't know what made me think of that, Mebe.

Posted by: Craig at June 21, 2010 11:30 AM

wow, i was away all weekend, and i get back and there is still civil war in Pajibaland over a review of a kids movie sequel.

Holy entrenched indignities batman!

Posted by: idleprimate at June 21, 2010 11:44 AM

No wonder I check this site less and less. It's ripe with negativity.
Posted by: Doom70 at June 20, 2010 10:36 PM


I love the smell of negativity in the morning. Or even on Sunday evening.
Posted by: MM at June 20, 2010 10:50 PM

MMMMMM Ripened Negative Fruit....

Posted by: "luker" the barbarian at June 21, 2010 11:45 AM

I have not read the review or seen the movie, but enjoy the banter.

Did anyone really believe that Pixar would never miss? I know a vocal group here hates Cars, and I for one fail to grasp that hatred. As a kid who grew up in the back of assorted vehicle types, as dad kept fixing them, I get what the movie was about and that movie moves me to tears. I have family in Dubuque, Iowa, and one had to travel old route 20 through a bunch of small towns to get there. Now one can get around much of those towns, and you can see the suffering as Sunday drive travel has dropped off, I still enjoy the driving through them, with the memories as vivid as the day they were created.

As my kids start being able to fit into my shoes, at age 11, and I realize I am close to a steady diet of soup, I love the nostalgia of these movies. Over the top at times, yes, but I think the intent in most cases is pure. I for one, cannot wait to see this movie tomorrow with my kids, and my Godmother. Three generations, touched by cinema.

So it received a bad review, RT is basic but has a simple purpose, bottom line is who cares. We have our own judgements to make, but it is nice to have an informed barometer as this site provides. I learn something new here everyday, and while I do not comment as much as I used to, I still rave about this place to the uninformed and will continue to do so.

Posted by: richmac at June 21, 2010 11:47 AM


I genuinely dislike the stance that these comments have taken against the article that criticizes the minority backlash over the review that was marginally critical to Toy Story 3.
What is that, like, a quadruple backlash?
Posted by: gunnertec at June 21, 2010 9:36 AM

Fantastic. Way to point how this comment thread is ridiculous even by pajiba standards.

Posted by: "luker" the barbarian at June 21, 2010 11:51 AM

Just read Carlson's review and I could get where he is coming from. I took one issue with it, "The remaining central cast is smaller than it used to be, with the absence of characters like Bo Peep, Weezy, and Etch-a-Sketch explained expositionally as Woody laments the passage of time that brings garage sales and trips to the dump. It’s a clunky way to back into a story that as a result never quite rings as true as the earlier ones."

Nothing in this story is backed into. Ever try throwing away a toy on a kid, especially one that had not been seen in a long time because it was buried under a pile of "cool" new ones at the bottom of a toy box? Or see their face when some favorite becomes broken? My wife still has her stuffed Henry Bear, circa 1974, so this plot is very understandable. This is not backed into, it is called life, and it happens to humans every day.

Posted by: richmac at June 21, 2010 12:18 PM

Way to point how this comment thread is ridiculous even by pajiba standards.

How goddamn many people have to say that before this shit is over?

Posted by: ChristianH at June 21, 2010 12:24 PM

Well, that certainly was bitchy. Nice work on the pissy diatribe.

Posted by: ecp at June 21, 2010 1:25 PM

I still just want to talk about the movie, which still hasn't happened. Didn't anyone here see it? If so what did you think?

I just didn't like Dan's review and wanted to hear someone else chime in. Will that change my opinion of the movie? No, but if Dustin or someone else hated it, I want some legit reasons as to why. IMO I didn't get those in Dan's review. TS3 is one of the summer's big movies, sometimes a big movie gets more than one review.

Craig: Stop oppressing me, this is worse than slavery! ;)

LOL I hadn't thought of the insane Harry/Hermione shippers in forever. I never was one of those people. Buffy and Spike was my ship, and I still can't discuss BTVS with my best friend because of it. She just insists on shipping Buffy/Angel.

Posted by: Mebe at June 21, 2010 1:43 PM

if anything, Toy Story 3 is 90% as good as the first one... lots like it better than the other two...

as for your reviewer, he and you, are obviously on crack.....

Posted by: coologuy1957 at June 21, 2010 2:05 PM

Half the reason I come here is to confirm or un-confirm what I read on RT. Nine times outta ten, 'jiba and myself are on the same page. RT? Yeah, not so much.

Posted by: Sapphiar at June 21, 2010 4:35 PM

"Nuance is for pussies!"

Thank you for that.

Posted by: sheshakes at June 21, 2010 9:35 PM

I really enjoyed one of the 'eloquents'' remarks in the other thread about people 'crawling out of the woodwork' to comment, like the regular but normally silent readers here don't have the right to post their opinions. You might think this is a private little party for the cool kids, but you're not alone. We're watching and we're judging you.

Posted by: snapnhiss at June 21, 2010 9:46 PM


"I don't know what theaters you're going to. I saw it in 2D. Everyone else I know did to. No one wanted to shell out the dough for the glasses."

All a matter of location. Live in Boston, don't have a car. All the closest non-indie theaters to my location have 3D and no 2D option. Indies, of course, don't show Toy Story.

In fact, I didn't know Toy Story had a non-3D option.

Posted by: ThingOfThings at June 21, 2010 11:00 PM

Pfft, who gives a fuck

Posted by: Billy Jean at June 22, 2010 4:40 AM

You might think this is a private little party for the cool kids, but you're not alone. We're watching and we're judging you.

Eek! I'm so intimidated. Because of how much I care when people judge me.

In what other thread did anyone post a comment about people crawling out of the woodwork? The actual review? Please cite the specific comment and where it came from. I've read through both of these threads (and, obviously, still am) and didn't see any remark of the kind. And, most of the "eloquents" have come out repeatedly and publicly about their desire for the "regular but normally silent readers" to please comment more, so I'm just curious about this.

Posted by: Anna von Beaverplatz at June 22, 2010 9:39 AM

Oh, nevermind. Thanks, F3.

I still don't care if you judge me.

Posted by: Anna von Beaverplatz at June 22, 2010 9:51 AM

Good. Still judging...

Posted by: Anonymous at June 22, 2010 2:11 PM

I don't get it; isn't Dustin allowed to add his two cents to the discussion? I mean, this is HIS website after-all.

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I have got a Encore ESH-709, if I link the internet to the line in, and my pc into 1 of the out ports, i acquire 10mbps, and it says their is limited or no connectivity. If i connect the internet cord into the out plug, and the pc into the input plug, i get 100 mbps, please assist!

Posted by: Gaynell Canellas at July 14, 2010 12:29 PM

J K Rowling was really great on Oprah the other day talking about Harry Potter - magic, even!

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