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I Guess The Good Times, They Were All Just Killing Me

By TK | Posted Under TV Reviews | Comments (81)



Episode-4-Walker-760.jpg

One of the most hotly contested issues from last week’s episode of “The Walking Dead” was, “Why did Merle cut his hand off?” People argued over it intensely. I spent an hour in a bar on Friday night having a drunken debate with a friend about it. Five minutes into this week’s this week’s episode, they put the debate to rest:

The saw simply wasn’t sharp enough to cut through the cuffs.

I love this show.

Moving on.

This week’s episode, “Vatos,” was sneaky, and the theme seemed to revolve around misconceptions by both the cast and the viewers. As usual, it picked up immediately after the prior episode, with Rick, Glenn, Daryl and T-Dog (seriously, we need to lose that name in a hurry) on a rooftop in downtown Atlanta, trying to figure out what happened to the now-handless Merle while working out a plan to grab Rick’s bag of guns that he dropped back in Episode 1. Over the course of the episode, they end up encountering a gang of Latinos that kidnaps Glenn, and end up in a confrontation over Glenn, the guns, and Miguel, who Rick and company capture.

I spent 30 minutes being annoyed at the episode and at Robert Kirkman (the comic creator who wrote this episode) for the broad stereotypes they were playing on. While I enjoy the characters of Merle and Daryl, adding a bunch of Hispanic gang members into the mix amped up the generalizations and, for the first time, I found myself disappointed.

Shows what I know. Kirkman and company masterfully switched things up, and turned it yet again into a lesson of survival — not just of the show’s core group, but also of Guillermo and his new family, and how their family ties compare to Rick’s. Everyone needs to survive — some are doing it differently than others. Some have different priorities about who should be saved. It was a remarkably clever and thought-provoking sequence, as Rick’s group gets led through the quiet hallways of this new stronghold, watching as their preconceptions gradually get stripped away, laying bare a new group of survivors with an entirely different, but no less noble (if not more so) mission.

“Vatos” was another of those episodes that focused on the human element, and on the decisions — some good, some bad — that we find ourselves forced to make in moments of despair and in the face of destruction. The show’s determination to use this zombie apocalypse as a vehicle for exposing the strengths and weaknesses of humanity continues to be one of its greatest assets, and with each week they show a facet of the theme.

The other part of the episode was spent back at the camp, where one of their party, Jim (Andrew Rothenberg), appears to be going off the rails, endlessly digging holes in the ground without purpose or explanation… even though in the back of their minds (and ours) there’s a grim suspicion that worms its way in there and slowly eats away. The cast at the camp continues to develop slowly, but unquestionably the two standouts, performance-wise, were Jon Bernthal’s Shane and Laurie Holden’s Andrea. Shane is proving to be a far more complex character than we’d initially suspected, and that’s a good thing. It’s clear that there’s a darkness inside him, as evidenced by his misleading Laurie into an affair, and his brutal beating of Ed (Adam Minarovich) in the last episode. But there’s also a good man mixed in their, and his handling of Jim’s breakdown was a combination of kindness, strength and determination that we may not have expected.

Meanwhile, the opening sequence with Andrea and her sister Amy (Emma Bell) was sweet, and the scenes with the two of them, as well as the other cooperative efforts at the camp, helped maintain a pleasant balance with the hostility and dangers of the scenes in Atlanta. The group is melding together nicely, and new and intriguing dynamics are being formed each week, dedicating a few minutes here and there to show us a little bit more of each character. This gradual buildup of characterization serves the show’s long range goals well — it establishes the characters, but given its intention of moving in a seamless, streaming continuity from episode to episode, gives us time to get to know them and understand them without over-explaining them right off the bat. The buildup of the group’s camaraderie was emphasized in “Vatos” with scenes of the group actually enjoying themselves, finally finding some slight joy and respite in simple things like a fish dinner and a couple of beers.

And then they get torn to pieces.

The final sequence of “Vatos” was a nothing short of a 10 minute horror show. It was a frantic, frenetic frenzy of gore and mayhem. The camera work was amazing — capturing the group as it splintered apart in terror, and then gathered back together to save each other, all peppered with flickering firelight and cacophonous gunfire, showing just how wild and uncontrollable and fright-inducing those encounters can be. This wasn’t an isolated attack by a lone zombie — it was a full-blown pack of walkers, and they ripped through the panicked herd like a chainsaw.

It was another of those moments in this show, when viewers, especially those who didn’t read the books, realize that “The Walking Dead” really may be unlike anything else. It spent a good portion of the episode teaching you about one of the characters, making her engaging and getting you invested in her — and then quite literally tearing her apart. Her final moments, lying gasping and gurgling on the ground, as her life slowly drained away and her only family kneels beside her, were brutal and tragic and it taught us the critical lesson to remember as “The Walking Dead” progresses:

No one is safe.

No one.

TK writes about music and movies. He enjoys playing with dogs, raising the dead, and tacos. You can email him here.









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Comments

No one is safe.

No one.

Amen.

I loved this episode. Loved that it made me think of ways to save Glenn while punishing the Vatos -- I was thinking of bringing all the walkers I could and leave them right outside their front door.

And then they show you who they're protecting and guilt seeps in.

It's one of the strengths of this show that you don't know how anyone is going to react and, therefore, shouldn't be so certain as to the purposes or desires of the cast -- beyond survival.

As for the end scenes, the moment they forgot that the walkers were out there and dropped their guard, that was inevitable -- and after seeing one wander in ahead of Darryl in the last episode, shouldn't they have come up with a better defensive strategy?

And who's got Merle and the truck now? Cause Merle ain't driving it.

Posted by: Fredo at November 23, 2010 1:27 PM

No one is safe.
No one.

This is one of the appeals of the comic and one of the reasons I'm sure I'll watch the show every week.

Posted by: Lennon at November 23, 2010 1:34 PM

Great show, amazing episode, wonderful recap. Thanks TK.

Posted by: TajMc at November 23, 2010 1:36 PM

I have been wondering this since last Sunday - couldn't he have just cut his thumb off? Or would you need a thin wrist for that to work? If cutting the thumb off would work - why not just dislocate it? These are the questions that keep me up at night.

Posted by: Ashley at November 23, 2010 1:39 PM

I'm enjoying the show, but I can't take some of the campfire stuff seriously. Too me it just feels like "this is the part where they're bonding, see, they laugh and share an anecdote that doesn't really mean anything". Now I know what I just described is how it works in real life, but it all felt false to me. I am well aware I'm probably in the minority here.

Posted by: e at November 23, 2010 1:43 PM

Great episode. I shared a lot of your thoughts especially regarding the sawed off hand and the introduction of the Vatos. I was very happy to see that my faith in the writers was well place.

As for the last ten minutes: brilliant.

Posted by: admin at November 23, 2010 1:44 PM

The scene when each group pulled all their guns on each other was so tense and then a few minutes later we get the three chihuahuas in a basket. This show has me veering all over the place emotionally.

Do we assume that the walkers are a little more sentient than other species of zombie? They seem to understand the need to wait until dark and attack the few cut off from the group.

Posted by: PaddyDog at November 23, 2010 1:46 PM

I picked the wrong day to stop sniffing glue.

This morning, in a moment of self-preservation and sanity, I decided that I would work on my ADPD (Attention Deficit Pajiba Disorder) and take a day off from the site. I felt I was ‘overindulging’ as it were; becoming distracted from the daily tasks I was paid to perform, some onerous, many dull, but all with attendant remuneration nonetheless. Come 1:34 pm EST and the crushing boredom and only being able to check Go Fug Yourself so many times in the day, I caved. I embraced my weakness, decided that I would be away for the weekend, enjoyed a fit of self-justification shared by addicts everywhere, and caved. Herewith is my thought process on opening the site:

Jesus Suffering Fuck is that her tongue? Jesus God Help Me Lord! There is no God. I mean, I know there is no God, but there is a TK and he is a cruel and vengeful TK who has posted a picture of ohdearlordgodhelpmejesusgodisthathertongue?.
Fuck with the zombies. Always with the zombies. Mocking zombies. Mocking me with their tongues
.

And lo, I was besmoted for my weak and intemperate behavior.

Jesus H people. Jesus H on a crutch made of popsicle sticks. And recrimination.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at November 23, 2010 1:46 PM

Would Guns be that hard to come by/sure there was looting but being a major city wouldnt there be Wall Marts/Gun shops/etc. ?

Posted by: rabbi at November 23, 2010 1:46 PM

Great stuff, TK.

I am enjoying the hell out of this show. This is really the first show since I've had a DVR (last 5 years) that I actually watch every episode "live" (20 minute delay to avoid commercials). I love it. Perfect? No. But fantastic nonetheless.

I liked what they did with Darryl - I liked how they showed that he had some self-mastery, and that he cared about Glen but then he didn't and then he did again... he is turning into a more complex character than just some crazy hair-trigger redneck.

Sure, he's a bit angry and bitter and likely to fly off the handle, but when it comes right down to it, he'll pitch in and do what's best for the group, even if that means Rick has to keep pointing a gun at his head to reason with him. It will be really interesting to see what he does if/when Merle comes back. He obviously loves and cares for his brother, but he's also forming a bound with Rick, Glen, etc. Does he stop Merle from taking his revenge? Does he try to explain they went back there for him? I don't see him just standing idly by while Merle tries to kill Rick/Glen/Andrea/T-Dog or whomever.

I liked the Guillermo thing too. Taken in isolation it could have come off as a bit saccharine, but given the quality of a lot of people still around, like Ed/Merle, it was nice to see them encounter another group of people trying to do good and get by. As I've mentioned, the whole other humans are the real enemy shitck is well established in the zombie story cannon, so it was nice to have a twist to it. Both groups were understandably mis-trustful or one another and acted appropriately based on the world they live in, what they've expreinced and what they knew, but then the little old lady comes in and just naturally defuses the situation. It was like a slap in the face or a bucket of cold water thrown on everyone, a reminder that there are people that need to be taken care of and you're a janitor/nurse/cop/pizza delivery boy, not looters/scavangers/gunslingers.

The ending was brutal and shocking, which means that they are definitely not shying away from the core of the comic, which is like that.

Having read the comic, I should have seen the zombie attack coming and Amy's death, but it caught me off guard and I found Amy's death much more tragic and impactful in the show.

It's disappointing that in two weeks Sunday nights will go back to being only the depressing end of the weekend.

Posted by: FordbiddenDonut at November 23, 2010 1:47 PM

e, I think what the bonding scene was showing was the growth of a new family out of all these disparate people. In fact, you can make the case that that was the point of the episode. That, in a world where your blood relations are dead or undead and trying to make you their Happy Meal, family lines are being redrawn by who is with you surviving and who is part of a separate group, trying to take what you need to survive.

Posted by: Fredo at November 23, 2010 1:50 PM

I'm liking the diversions from the original. T-dog just better not replace Tyreese.

I've read the comics. I just don't know what's coming, and I LOVE it. This show is really fun to watch with other people, make a crack or two about Vatos cruising the streets of Armageddon and the fact that Carol's greatest abuse suffered is sharing the same haircut as Ed, but then something happens by the end of the show that has mouths dropping. Sweetness.

Posted by: Jackseppelin at November 23, 2010 2:02 PM

Darryl was using the same arrows he had already killed a few walkers with. Is anyone else curious if the "vato" that Darryl shot with the crossbow is going to turn into a walker?

Posted by: Amy Joy at November 23, 2010 2:06 PM

Loving the show. Seriously. But i can't let the writers off the hook so easily.
The stereotypes are still broad and ridiculous, and big twist reveals do not make them any less embarrassing. Plus this morning, i'm still irritated by the final (guns drawn) confrontation with the Vatos.
What was Rick's plan exactly?
(Except for Glenn not being on the roof, the situation was exactly the same as the first time they lost.) Cheap set-up for the granny save.

Posted by: Scott at November 23, 2010 2:06 PM

i haven't seen the show yet. it's on the DVR. i just wanted to say nice Lynda Barry reference!

Posted by: glittergirl at November 23, 2010 2:07 PM

Ok fine. I'll asked the question you all want to ask, but are too afraid.

Do zombies poop?

I mean, they certainly eat. At some point they have to get rid of it.

Posted by: logar at November 23, 2010 2:08 PM

Not having this show in HD is killing me. The night time scenes are confusing messes. I know that was the point, but it is so much worse without visual clarity. From my vantage the continuity was bizarre during the battle. Like I don't get how Amy was attacked from behind. Or why no one could get to her when about 3-4 people were within 20 feet of her after the initial attack. True, she was already bitten but seemed like they could have protected her or she could have jumped back in the RV.

The beginning in the boat was painful. Clunky dialogue and bad acting from two good actresses, that scene was really off. I just watched "Frozen" with Emma Bell this weekend and really liked it so when I figured out she was on The Walking Dead as well I got happy. Then they killed her off. So, ok then. I don't remember when Amy bought it in the comic, I was thinking she lived longer than this. A lot is getting changed at this point.

The zombie makeup is just fantastic. All the horrifying variations are incredibly inventive.

Posted by: TylerDFC at November 23, 2010 2:10 PM

Awesome Episode indeed!

I am however a bit concerned that they seem to be turning Jim into some sort of psychic vision having doomsayer. I am not sure I care for that direction of an otherwise incredible series to date.

Did anyone else groan when Amy uttered a paraphrase that EVERYONE should know brings instant death in all horror Movies?
I'm just going to Pee, I'll be RIGHT back!

And what happened to NO ONE goes anywhere alone?

Finally, just a thought but how possible is that since Meryl surely knows the back ways to get to their high ground hideout... And was obviously shown going more batshit insane than he normally is... And Daryl's statement that Meryl is going to be looking to BRING vengence to the camp... dun dun dun
Well, is it possible that he somehow lured the walkers into the truck and drove them to the campsite where they then scented one of the most enduring and long lasting scents there is (FISH) and moved in to attack the group?

Well thats my theory.

Posted by: Wolf at November 23, 2010 2:11 PM

Just before I leave for lunch break, I thought I'd see what's posted on Pajiba. Talk about regrets ...

"It spent a good portion of the episode teaching you about one of the characters, making her engaging and getting you invested in her — and then quite literally tearing her apart. Her final moments, lying gasping and gurgling on the ground, as her life slowly drained away and her only family kneels beside her"

Now, why exactly is this something I should want to watch?

Posted by: Pat C. at November 23, 2010 2:14 PM

Question: Why did that kid they took hostage ask Daryl "Who's the man?" (or whatever he said) when they first met? What did that mean?

I was not privy to any hotly contested debates about why Merle chopped his hand off. The answer seemed fairly obvious, and that was the exact reason given. What exactly were people arguing over?

I very much dug the twist that Guillermo and company were not as they appeared, and that end action sequence was satisfyingly intense with all the exploding zombie heads.

Ashley >> Chopping off the thumb: that's a little more clever. I'll keep that strategy in mind if I'm ever handcuffed and trapped by zombies with only a dull saw at my disposal.

rabbi >> Not only do I question exactly how difficult it is to come by guns, but at times they seem to be conveying that guns are almost as big of a liability as they are an asset. You shoot one zombie, and the noise potentially draws the attention of a horde of one hundred zombies. In most situations, that would not be a sound strategy.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at November 23, 2010 2:14 PM

@logar

Didn't they reference that in World War Z? Which I read, so I sort of remember them asking that question, but I don't recall what the answer was. (Mind like a sieve, I have.)

Posted by: MM at November 23, 2010 2:14 PM

"Or why no one could get to her when about 3-4 people were within 20 feet of her after the initial attack." TylerDFC

I thought she walked out of the trailer and the Zombie came from around the front and bit her arm too quick for reactions.

But I definitly agree that the scene in the boat between the sisters was very hard to watch. Simply Horrible

Posted by: Wolf at November 23, 2010 2:16 PM

Aww boy, I'm just so tired of all this traffic, I can't wait until I get out of Africa, Meryl.

Posted by: Jackseppelin at November 23, 2010 2:21 PM

Scott >> What was Rick's plan exactly? Great question. It certainly wasn't to have Grandma interrupt the standoff at the most convenient time.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at November 23, 2010 2:26 PM

Wolf >> Yeah, those hints at psychic power seemed out of left field to me.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at November 23, 2010 2:27 PM

Concerning the gang:

The comic books are constantly engaging this idea that new groups are dynamic and don't always meet your expectations. The kindly farm family might be capturing zombies and keeping them alive. The prisoners might not be violent lunatics. But they might. The near-by city that has acheived nearly complete security might be governed by crazy, bloodthirsty monsters. Or you might find that you are the crazy bloodthirsty monster. Each new encounter could go exactly as you expect, or it could offer some new horror.

When the conflict with the gang initially began, I felt the same sense of disappointment that you describe above. How expected. How pathetic just to insert some meaningless conflict for the sake of filling an hour. When the greater picture is finally revealed, I felt ashamed right along with the characters for my ugly assumptions, and relieved that the show didn't take an easier route. Certainly for the characters it was easier than a gun-fight, but the writers didn't take any short-cuts while constructing the encounter. They forced us to question our expectations.

I have no doubt that we will meet monsters through the course of the show. And I delight knowing that I won't always see them coming.

Posted by: superasente at November 23, 2010 2:29 PM

Guns ... This is Atlanta folks; isn't there a gun shop on every block? Or am I (as a Canadian) sterotyping America? Okay, I will answer my own question - of course I am !!!

Car ... Boo-hoo, someone stole their car. Why not pick any one of 10,000 other cars standing around?

Don't be fooled by the above, as I LOVE the show and am happy it will be around for at least a 2nd season :)

Posted by: Neil at November 23, 2010 2:29 PM

MM: I've never read it, so I'm not sure.

I agree that the fishing-dialogue was extremely clunky. It really didn't get me to care too much about the younger sister's character. I just wanted it to end.

I must say that the biggest shock of the episode was that they killed off the hottest woman on the show. Unusual move. Or maybe not- this has got to be the least sexual show in the history of TV.

Posted by: logar at November 23, 2010 2:31 PM

Rick's plan was reckless. He was thinking, "Fucking hell man, we're in an apocalypse and you're planning on killing people over a bunch of guns?" He also had the fact that these 'thugs' let them leave to think on it. That little kid can't have been worth much, no matter who's cousin he was. What dumbass screams on the streets of zombie-horde Atlanta? Any warlord would have killed them as soon as they walked through the gates, or certainly before giving them an opportunity to gather forces. Armed conflict was not the subtext of the conversation. Capitulation was the end game, and Guillermo didn't have a plan for it going another way, either. It was meant to be comical.

People gonna die, detractors. But the question is, what do you do in that situation? Do you just give up, or do you survive? So many good things lined up. You don't even know, Pat C., but you want to be watching this show.

Posted by: Jackseppelin at November 23, 2010 2:37 PM

I don't think they are really hinting too strongly that Jim has psychic powers. I would be surprised if this isn't just a "one off" sort of thing.

Posted by: FordbiddenDonut at November 23, 2010 2:40 PM

Yeah, I thought it was more that Jim was just going bugfuck crazy, not any kind of psychic deal. That's a little too left field for the universe they've established.

Dreaming about people getting killed by zombies isn't exactly prescience around those parts.

Posted by: Perfect Tommy at November 23, 2010 2:44 PM

Neil, as an Atlantan I can assure you there are a thousand places to buy guns around here....but they're almost all in the suburbs. The whole show is a subtext for white flight (kidding, mostly).

Posted by: sansho1 at November 23, 2010 2:49 PM

Well said, TK. Well said. I don't really buy the whole "that saw wasn't sharp enough to get through the cuffs" argument though. I'm pretty sure if you can cut through bone, flesh and sinew you can get through a few centimeters of chain...but whatever. Merle's obviously off the reservation now and I totally have a theory about him loading the back of the stolen truck with zombies and unleashing them on the camp as revenge that night. That scene was chilling and awesome and I can't wait until next week!! YAY AMC for getting it right! Hooray!!

Posted by: JenVegas at November 23, 2010 2:54 PM

I'm pretty sure if you can cut through bone, flesh and sinew you can get through a few centimeters of chain.

Actually, if you really think about it - how easy is it to break a bone, relatively speaking? Not hard at all.

How easy is it to break a handcuff chain? I mean, they're designed to be pretty damn tough.

Anyway, my theory on the zombie attack was that they were being noisier than usual, plus the smell of the fish drew the pack of zombies. And, they didn't appear to have anyone standing lookout either. Looks like they learned a few lessons the hard way.

Posted by: Perfect Tommy at November 23, 2010 2:57 PM

It was a good episode. The one thing that bothered me though was that Andrea and two other people got bitten. Doesn't that mean they should have zombie-fied? I am already suspending disbelief that zombie corpses aren't rotting in 100 degree heat and don't even give off a smell. They shouldn't ass out on the rule that the whole outbreak was based on.

Posted by: pickles at November 23, 2010 2:59 PM

I agree with others who don't think Jim is supposed to be psychic. I think he's losing it and there was a danger he was going to go postal and kill them all, hence the grave digging, but they brought him back down a notch or two. Then when the walkers attacked, the shallow level of sanity he was retrieving went right out the window and he started to relate a dream he couldn't remember with foreseeing the attack. He's the kind of guy who in a non-zombie world would go on to form a religious cult and end up a millionaire.

Posted by: PaddyDog at November 23, 2010 2:59 PM

I don't know, sansho1, I'm thinking you could find plenty of guns at any pawnshop downtown. And from the looks of things, the camp's on the southwest side of town, so they are in the 'burbs or close to them. I'd guess they're somewhere around Fairburn. There's room to camp but it doesn't take them terribly long to get to midtown.

I'm not sure why they'd be scavenging in the city when they could hit up Wal-Mart, unless all the Wal-Marts were cleaned out when the infection started.

I don't think they meant to portray the one guy as psychic. Would you naturally start to have subconscious thoughts that you were eventually going to get eaten by zombies?

Posted by: Wednesday at November 23, 2010 3:00 PM

Ok, mr. dammit voiced the same complaint...we love the show, but it pissed him off that the 2 groups would be fighting over 1 BAG of guns when there HAVE to be abandoned police stations, sporting good stores, Wal-Marts, and homes LOADED with them. That's not a Southern stereotype, its simply fact in America.

I had the same concern that Amy Joy expressed about Daryl's arrows. He just wipes 'em on his pants after killing a walker and reuses them. This HAS to come back and bite them in the ass, perhaps literally, at some point.

As for Merle and the van...mr. dammit's theory is that he LED the walkers to camp in revenge...so he may be hiding, or he may be a walker himself. Will his brother have to use a tainted arrow on him? Will Amy turn before they use Jim's holes? Will T-Dog get a better name? Will I be able to call Glenn by his right name instead of Grant (he reminds me too much of the Mythbuster)? Tune in Sunday for answers to these, and other questions!

Posted by: dammitjanet at November 23, 2010 3:04 PM

I think someone already mentioned this, but camp security is extraordinarily lax, considering they just had their first zombie encounter at camp the day (or two) prior. No sentry on top of the RV? Seriously? Their zombie survival skills need some brushing up.

Here's what to do: go find a prison. It's secure, has back-up electricity, guns and ammo, long shelf life guvmn't food, plenty of space for veggie gardens, etc. They are usually fairly isolated, and have good lines of sight, yet many are fairly close to towns and cities for scavenging forays. By this time, all the locked up prisoners would have died anyway, so just get rid of the bodies, and you have yourself a fortress.

Posted by: logar at November 23, 2010 3:08 PM

Hah! Only my second post ever and exactly my second post zombie-related.

@logar, according to The Zombie Survival Guide by Max Brooks, they do eat but their digestive systems do not function. The half-chewed matter builds up inside their bodies until it is eventually forced out the anus or bursts through the stomach wall. It could be different in this series, however--- we'll just have to wait for the writers to answer that one...

Step right up, one and all... YOUR burning zombie questions answered right here, right now.

Posted by: dreadgirl at November 23, 2010 3:12 PM

First of all, yes, I am loving the show. But here's my "buts". (some of which were mentioned before and I agree with)

1> Hand smash vs Hand cuffs. I agree with the "why not just break you thumb?" theory. Handcuffs? Noone's seen Mad Max?

2> Guns. Weren't they in a friggin' department store that would no doubt be chock a block full of the damn things? And DarthCorleone has a point about the liability. Having played a lot of Left for Dead recently, a Katana is way superior. Melee, baby.

3> I love the "Merle loading up the back of the cube van for a Zombie Ambush" idea. (Ok, not a "but". Just wanted to say "cooool".) Loving Daryl though. Eminently watchable. Will he eventually have to turn on Merle, if Merle goes too far?

Posted by: Odnon. at November 23, 2010 3:18 PM

Also, there's a million zombies, right?
And they have to eat. They historically eat braaaains. But in this, they don't. Why don't they eat each other then? Rotten meat? They want fresh flesh? Ok. What happens when they don't get it? Do zombies ztarve? I mean, yes, they're zombies and undead and all, so they won't "die", but wouldn't they eventually just waste away? Dead or not, a body is still a body.

Man. I gotta get out more.

Posted by: Odnon. at November 23, 2010 3:28 PM

I don't buy the Merle bringing the zombies theory, mainly because as far as he knows, his brother is still at the camp.

As for Odnon's question about what happens if the zombies don't eat, I think they sort of show that - they go into a sort of stasis, or almost coma (like the zombie sitting in the car when Glenn runs by), or they just sort of wander aimlessly until their muscles give and they collapse. And yes, they probably would eventually just rot and waste away.

Posted by: Perfect Tommy at November 23, 2010 3:32 PM

I thought the opening scene could have been better if the dialogue wasn't so obvious to prove a point, a little subtlety would have helped it a lot. The ending was masterful though, as was the twist with the Vatos. I kept saying to myself, "why is this guy's gangster such a cliche?" And then bam, because he's not a gangster.

One thing my buddy found irritating about the show was that they only use abandoned warehouses and incredibly old building to further the sense of devastation when in reality there must be SOME modern buildings left, its as if the zombies had some how made every aspect of the world look ravished. Again, not my opinion, but something to note.

Posted by: Jared at November 23, 2010 3:32 PM

Neil, by the point we are witnessing, civilization has collapsed and it's likely that any major guns/ammo stock at any store has been looted/taken. It's the end of the world and everyone has armed themselves. And we aren't even taking into account the simple fact that most people don't know how to field clean a gun -- so chances are many of the people who armed themselves at the start are now holding hunks of metal that are not more useful than rocks.

So a large bag full of clean, working guns out on the street would be very tempting for any group that comes across it.

Posted by: Fredo at November 23, 2010 3:45 PM

Long time lurker, 2nd time poster.

@ dammitjanet, I TOTALLY agree with Glen / Grant Imahara lookalike thing. (and it isn't just a "they all look alke to us roundeyes" thing)

This is the best show on TV right now and I am already salivating for season 2. My only complaint is the short seasons, come on AMC, a TV season is supposed to be 22 episodes!

On a semi-related note I hope Lennie James comes back soon. I've liked him since "Jericho"

Posted by: midas89 (heavy) at November 23, 2010 3:49 PM

Would Guns be that hard to come by/sure there was looting but being a major city wouldnt there be Wall Marts/Gun shops/etc. ?

By the time we pick up on the action, I'm sure all the gun shops would have been raided. I live in Atlanta and I see what happens at the Kroger with even a threat of snow. It really is something to behold. Schools close, milk is hoarded, etc. all because 2 inches might fall and then melt within 24 hours. In a zombie apocalypse? I shudder to think.

Um, who was on sentry duty before the attack? No one? Everyone there deserves to die.

What was Rick's plan? I think it was to out-stubble Guillermo. If that didn't work it was to die.

Durabont has loved to use the crazy psychic/religious zealot in his stories. Some of that may actually be Stephen King's source material, but he certain is in the habit of having one around. No surprise that he decided to include another one in Walking Dead.

Posted by: ed newman at November 23, 2010 4:04 PM

@the Dammits
I agree with you both and have had the same thoughts, BUT, the guns are there and they knew they were there. A bird in the hand so to speak. As all who have read the Zombie survival guide know you dont go looting dark house's/store's unless you are already loaded for bear and well coordinated. I assume at some point they will adress this issue.

@pickles
I know, RIGHT? amy should have totally jumped up and bitten big Sis! perhaps it takes a while to turn after death in this universe. I am sure they will have to do something about it at the start of the next Episode.

Meryl and the zombies theory: I dunno guys seems reasonable, more so than a horde just following the smell, (even if its a fish smell). I think he merely asumed that Daryl would be smart and tough enough to cut and run. Besides Meryl was bugfuck nuts at the end. And Case hardened steel handcuffs are next to impossible to cut through without a properly bladed saw and the one they had did not fit that description. Although I agree with the breaking or cutting of the thumb rather than the whole hand. But why did he get that desperate since the Zombies couldnt even get through the door? Oh Yea, THERE WERE ZOMBIES AT THE DOOR! Pass the saw please.

And as for Jim he was digging graves (I wonder if the # of graves he dug equaled the number of deaths?), he was manically intent on getting those graves dug like he was in a psychic fugue state, he warned Lori to keep carl close at all times, and while doing so acted as if he knew more than he was telling IMO, and the next weeks synopsis states we learn something interesting about Jim. Seems close enough to psychic to me.
Hopefully he wont be all psychic though, just seems to lean that way to me.

Posted by: Wolf at November 23, 2010 4:18 PM

I haven't read any of this because we don't get episode 4 until Friday (and then I will come back and read the post and all of the comments and be peeved because I'll want to add my tuppence but by then everyone will have moved on) but the picture here makes me go "Yikes!" and "Yay!" in equal measure. I like to think that vomitous was the effect Frank Darabont was going for in his audience. Well, in this particular member, anyway. If so, job done!

Posted by: lingli at November 23, 2010 4:25 PM

MM (and logar) - I seem to remember WWZ mentioning that the bellies of the zombies in its lore just get horrifically distended the more they manage to consume. They're not digesting, just using muscles to chew and swallow. Ergo, negatory on the zombie poopage. (The former is almost even more sickening, don't you think?)

Now then... Creamed chipped beef for dinner then, all around, yah?


Posted by: bostonadrianne at November 23, 2010 4:35 PM

Re: how long it would take to zombify, in the first episode when the man and his son tied Rick up to the bed they mentioned that you get infected and then die of a fever then reanimate.

Posted by: Vee at November 23, 2010 4:53 PM

It's unclear what kind of lag time we're talking between death and re-animation. I don't think that's been established.

Posted by: FordbiddenDonut at November 23, 2010 4:57 PM

I honestly do not know if I'm going to be allowed to watch this show. I'm only two episodes in (damn Rupert Murdoch and his stranglehold on good American TV in the UK) but I have had nothing but zombie nightmares and zombie daydreams since I started watching. Today a group of innocent teens were heading towards me and I thought "zombie herd". Kill me!

Even that header pic is guaranteed to trigger something in the ol' subconscious. Great, just great.

Posted by: Cara at November 23, 2010 5:35 PM

My first thought on the zombia attack was Merle. He must have loaded up the truck with walkers and driven them to the camp. But then I thought he probably wouldn't do that since he probably believed his brother was still at the camp. Also, there was a one walker who strolled into the camp in the previous episode. Why wouldn't more be coming out of the city in search of food? But something is off. Wasn't there a scene where someone was setting up some kind of warning system around the camp? Cans on a string? How did the zombies get in without setting this off?

Did anyone else think the reveal of Ed's face was a total foreshadowing of him becoming/being attacked by a zombie?

Posted by: grizzle at November 23, 2010 5:37 PM

He was handcuffed to a piece of threaded rod. That metal is cheap as hell. So 1) the other guy could have snipped the rod w/the bolt cutters or 2)he could have cut through that rod in like 2 min with the dull saw.

Posted by: Chulculain at November 23, 2010 5:42 PM

Also I just have to say that if a zombie apocolypse happens, my theory is that the great frozen north will be the best place to be. I don't think zombies would be able to generate their own body heat, so surely they wouldn't survive long exposure to freezing temperatures and would just become zombiecicles. right?

Posted by: grizzle at November 23, 2010 5:43 PM

In no particular order:

1)I believe the "how long does it take" question is answered in ep 1. First you get bit, then a terrible fever, then ZOMBIE. My question is how long do Zombies 'live' so to speak. How long do they wander around rotting? It can't go on FOREVER. And I have never watched any zombie themed shows or movies, so I am truly uninformed here.

2) The quarry camp was obviously within sight of Atlanta's skyline, a few hours hike on foot if the return of the men at the end is to be believed. Really? I was under the impression that Atlanta has QUITE the sprawling suburban outskirts. Is there anywhere THAT close to the city that is that rural?

3) Those bitches in the boat were NOT fly-fishing. For all the 'wet fly, dry fly' talk, and those fly rods and reels, that is NOT how you fly fish. MAN that irritated me.

4) I wish the zombies would either be slow and lumbering, OR quick and nimble. It is a weird mix of some being laughably ponderous, and others clambering over fences etc.

5) Camp security was terribly lax. How do you go from fighting over building the fire too big to being THAT relaxed in 1 day? Plus of COURSE there was going to be an attack. That camp was CRAWLING with redshirts we had not met personally. And they only killed off the cute blond who had not really DONE anything yet besides stay remarkably clean in pink jeans whilst camping.

6) yeah, no way to cut those cuffs with the tools at hand. Now, the small bar the cuffs were attached to, maybe. But he was out of his mind by that point. Chewing off the paw is reasonable. Bringing zombies back to camp was not, his own brother was in that camp as far as he knew.

Posted by: Lindsey with an 'e' at November 23, 2010 6:17 PM

I'll just meekly be the lone voice of dissent and say this show isn't as amazing as everyone seems to believe it is, or wants it to be. Assuredly, it's one of the best shows on TV right now, but it's not even close to being on an all-time list. That premier episode may be, because it was damn near perfect. But the performances, the writing, the directing... all of that's been down since the first episode, with the exception of Andrew Lincoln and his Rick Grimes. I wish it stayed closer to the comic, only because the comic makes logical, narrative sense and takes it's time (like the premier).

Honestly, I think everyone polishing The Walking Dead's knob is more excited about its ideas than its execution. Then again, maybe I'm just not watching it on a good enough TV.

And, Lw/an'e': I can answer number two on your list with a simple, Yes. I've only been to Atlanta/Georgia once, but I spent a week there, and I was shocked by how much nature surrounds the city -- at least travelling from the west. It's absolutely conceivable they found a quarry right there, and it probably wouldn't be more than a 45 minute car ride. And that's taking traffic into account.

Posted by: RobP at November 23, 2010 6:29 PM

LindsEy,

I will try to address some points.

1)I believe the "how long does it take" question is answered in ep 1. First you get bit, then a terrible fever, then ZOMBIE.

That we know. Bit --> Fever --> Death --> Zombie.

The question is how long does it take from step 3 "Death" to Step 4 "Zombie". That, I don't think we know.

In some movies, it's matter of seconds between when the person finally dies and when they spring back to "life", all zombified.

As for how long they can go around rotting... Well, I believe in "World War Z" they pretty much go around rotting forever. I think there is some initial rot and then whatever the zombie-making infection/disease is essentially stops the rotting process. It starts to preserve the flesh at some point or something. Is that realistic? Sure, it's as realistic as zombies themselves.

Maybe someone who's read "Word War Z" more recently could explain it better.

2. I don't know enough about the geography around Atlanta. That said, in that Atlanta there is and I'm fine with that. They are apparently living in a world that had never had any zombie movies or books or anything, so I am totally willing to accept some minor alterations to the geography around Atlanta. A show/movie is allowed to establish new rules, so long as it sticks to them.

3. The dialogue between the sisters about fishing and their father was quite clunky. I had a hard time following it. I am not sure, however, that a conversation about fly fishing while not actually fly fishing, would be terribly out of place. Did the conversation imply that they were, indeed, fly fishing at that instance or was that just a related conversation?

4. I don't mind this actually. Some zombies could be spryer than others due to any number of factors. Perhaps they are "fresher" than the slower zombies. Perhaps they died relatively "cleanly" and, thus, have more mobility than others. The distinction seems more pronounced when the zombies are "riled up."

5. Camp security was painfully lax. They got too comfortable there. The zombies also got wife-beating Ed.

6. I have no problem with the guy cutting his own hand off. I found the explanation in the show to be fine and plausible, even if they hadn't, he was going crazy, zombies were at the door, he'd been suffering from exposure, cutting his hand off at that point, even if he could have eventually sawed the cuffs or pipe, seemed fine.

Posted by: FordbiddenDonut at November 23, 2010 6:44 PM

I don't know RobP, I've read the comic and like it well enough (well enough to keep buying and reading it in Tpb form) and, so far, I find the show pretty much superior in almost every way. Much better dialogue, better characters, better pacing, etc.

Posted by: FordbiddenDonut at November 23, 2010 6:48 PM

Mrs. Frob and I had a moment when watching this episode, involving the aforementioned Hand of Merle. She, being a biochemist/science-y type, immediately put forth that blood loss would be extraordinary and even with a tourniquet, bad things happen to that kind of exposed wound.

Me, being the science fiction-y and science type that I am, and veteran of many post apocalyptic pieces of lore, pointed out that you could cauterize something like that and likely live, although it would be almost super-humanly painful.

And there it was, minutes later. If the author had been there a high five would have been forthcoming.

-Frob

Posted by: frobme at November 23, 2010 8:25 PM

Lindsey, downtown Atlanta was (rather foolishly, in retrospect) built on a ridge, so there's lots of topography to break up the surrounding sprawl. Also, because there is little in the way of natural boundaries, the sprawl is very diffuse. So yes, it's pretty reasonable that one could find such a spot...if it weren't for the lake. That shit would be $5 million an acre just for the land, and home to some fine Pulte Homes McMansions, I guarantee.

Posted by: sansho1 at November 23, 2010 8:30 PM

Nah, I disagree. It's a quarry, not really lakefront property, and it looks like any number of state parks that are nearby. I believe some of it was shot in Grant Park, which is smack-dab in the heart of the city.

Posted by: Wednesday at November 23, 2010 9:52 PM

SPOILERS AHEAD!!

Yeah, cause having the grandma come in and save the gang cause the mexicans didn't wanna do anything bad in front of their grandma wasn't a HUGE stereotype. It was so offensive with the grandma coming in and be like miho be nice and all the gang members being like "dont tell my mom!" i was annoyed this whole time. Also I agree that the zombie part was awesome. I wish everyone would die starting with the sheriff.

If only this movie was called "the redneck brothers fight zombies and other races" I would love it

Posted by: andrew at November 23, 2010 10:14 PM

Thing is andrew, they weren't gang members. None of them were. They were just playing the "part". They were nurses, janitors, etc.

Posted by: ForbiddenDonut at November 23, 2010 11:01 PM

Really enjoying these recaps, TK. And the show is great as well, despite any faults in logic there may be. Really entertaining, that's all you can ask for.

Posted by: Mick J at November 23, 2010 11:23 PM

Also, so happy I didn't bother reading the comics first, I'd be going crazy nitpicking everything they changed.

Posted by: Mick J at November 23, 2010 11:26 PM

You have to leave your brain in the refrigerator in order to watch this show.

It is too stupid for words.

Posted by: eman at November 23, 2010 11:40 PM

@Scott


That's what's so great about it. They were terrible, badly done stereotypes that the characters themselves were using, because of the racist minds of the average person you'd encounter on the street. They play "vatos" not for us, the viewer, but because anyone who tried to hurt them would accept this stereotype of them just because they were latino. They would benefit from the racism in white people's minds. And the whole time, I was fooled. I was screaming at my tv, "Oh Come ON!" when they pulled the "vatos" bullshit, and I was so thrilled at the end when they turned out not to be doing that.

Posted by: John G. at November 24, 2010 12:47 AM

@TylerDFC,

Totally agree. Clunky is the perfect word for this scene. It's like the opening scene of the series with that stupid conversation about turning lights off. What are these scenes about? They're written as though there supposed to be very "real" dialogue, but they're so stupid and clunky. Are they from the comic or something? The scenes felt like they were the first read-through at a community theater production of a student's first one act.

Posted by: John G. at November 24, 2010 12:57 AM

My theory is that zombies don't really "eat"- they bite as a means of reproduction. The probably go into a stupor if they get "hungry" as a means of conserving energy. What turns people into zombies is a virus or some infection. They bite to transmit because that is the only way the virus can reproduce. Zombification is a side-effect- they aren't starving evil meatbags but hosts. (I've never watched anything zombie before so apologies if this has been endlessly debated and settling by Zombie Scholars.)

I too, think the guns would have been stripped a long time ago. Their are probably guns around but mixed in with all the other death and possessions.

Question for Pajiba! Rick's excuse to his wife and son for why he would go back to Atlanta was to contact the dude who saved his life! Did he radio the guy once? (No seriously, did he? My DRV cut out for like a minute at the beginning.) But I don't think he did, and that makes him a liar and kind of a dick!

Posted by: Lola at November 24, 2010 1:17 AM

Lola, he hasn't used the radio to contact the guy yet but that's because they had a prearranged agreement to turn the walkie talkie's on at dawn every day for a few minutes. To me it looked like they got the guns and radio around midday so no point in turning it on yet, the other guy won't have his on until dawn.

Posted by: Kelly at November 24, 2010 1:44 AM

@andrew,

I thought the same thing about the grandma. It was too stupid, and too "big mamas house." But what's great is that it wasn't, because they weren't really vatos. They were hospital staff and random stragglers. That's what was so great, and why I hated it and then loved it. If it had been the other way, it would have been the lowest form of comedy and really lazy script-writing, but the joke was on us, the audience.

Posted by: John G. at November 24, 2010 2:17 AM

Yes, we were told that first you get bit, then a fever, then you zombie, but that's only if you get bit and don't die. That's for when you're brought in to the safe zone with the other people, but you're hiding a bite. Then you get the fever, and eventually zombie out. What other people are wondering is if you completely die from you wounds, how long till you rise up again? I'm guessing we'll have the scene about should we cut off her head before she zombies in the next episode. And yes, there will be much sad and yell acting.

Posted by: John G. at November 24, 2010 2:23 AM

@Kelly

Oh! Yes, I totally forgot about that! Thank you very much, now I can go back to objectifying Rick with a clear conscience. ;)

Posted by: Lola at November 24, 2010 10:46 AM

@Lola

Backing up Kelly's comment about the radio agreement, she is completely correct. The reason they agreed to do it that way was because the radio he gave him only had the one battery, so it was a battery saving compromise.

Posted by: Wolf at November 24, 2010 11:13 AM

Ok, to address some of the issues percolating back and forth.

On Amy not biting Lori: I think Amy bled to death and for one to turn into a Zombie they have to be alive and bitten. Their bodies eventually succomb to the disease. That is why we don't have a Zombie horse roaming the streets of Atlanta unfortunately, because they stripped the bitch clean. When they zombies don't feed they deteriorate to the dormant ones and eventually like the zombie crawling around without legs in the first episode that Rick watches.

On Merle cutting of his hand: Don't really have a clear answer here but I love how upset people are about Merle losing the hand. I did think it kind of weird he couldn't break the pipe but Merle's not really brilliant and I think some are giving his brain too much credit.

On Jim digging graves: Definitely think he dreamed about the attack before it happened. Whether he has more dreams or not is left to be answered but I don't see them turning him into a prophet or anything.

How could no one mention that we finally got rid of Ed's hateful, ugly yellow faced ass. Had Carol or the little girl stayed with him they would have been a tent filet just like Ed. To zombie hell with you, damn bastard.

Also, does anyone else find Shane's military pants abnormally high waisted almost like he is a PE coach? The tucked in shirt isn't helping.

So did Glen draw the geeks in with his car alarm? I second the prison plan - sounds secure.

Posted by: TVConnoisseur at November 24, 2010 12:15 PM

As the other half of TKs drunken debate on the handcuffs, I have to disagree about it being settled - I will buy the "out in the sun all day and crazy to start with" theory though.

Completely agree with you TVConnoisseur, Shanes pants are ridiculous.

Also, was anyone else hoping for a "because I'm holding a thermal detonator" moment during the guns showdown? the grenade he got from the tank has to come into play at some point.

Posted by: SkarltheDrummer at November 24, 2010 1:03 PM

I know it's a zombie apocalypse, and that many of you haven't read the comics (not that it really matters at this point), but do some of you seriously, honestly believe Jim has, or is going to have, super powers?

They live in a wasteland where they could be attacked and killed by the dead at any given moment. Jim himself has seen his entire family slaughtered by those same dead. Of course he's going to have nightmares about people dying. Both bad dreams and more death are inevitable here. Why was he digging? His dreams were bothering him, the death of his family made him feel helpless, and life around the campsite wasn't making him any more useful. So he digs holes in the ground. It passes the time, it keeps him away from the other survivors, and lets him grieve quietly. He doesn't realize he's digging graves, but in the back of his mind he knows. His subconscious dug those graves for his family, but his family won't be filling them.

For the love of Godtopus, he's not a super hero.

Posted by: RobP at November 24, 2010 2:44 PM

I agree that the scene with the grandma coming in was a bit much and I was surprised to find out that Kirkland wrote the episode given the bleak and hopeless narrative of the graphic novel.
I think that the dialogue overall is 5/10 in terms of quality but I am still interested to see where the show goes this season.
Also, I doubt the likelihood that Merle had anything to do with the zombie attack. More likely it had to do with the fact that they are close enough to see a downtown Atlanta filled with the dead and they had noone keeping watch so Dale could wax poetic.
Bye bye Amy.. guess who's next!

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Posted by: Carroll B. Merriman at December 8, 2010 5:26 PM