Pajiba

*sob*

I haven't the words to appropriately convey how upset I am for you. I think Cindy got it right with her *sob*.

Damn. Sorry.

Yeah, the "I don't hate you, I just don't love you anymore" is the worstest worstest, because there is no WHY.

Why is useful. Why can be reasoned with, why can be bargained with. A concrete "Why" means real problems, and therefore, possible solutions.

I wish you strength and send good thoughts your way.

PS You're bumming me out, man.

After my divorce/exorcism, I was asked what I planned to do with my wedding band and the wedding picture.

I said I was keeping them, as reminders that there are some lessons that come at a very high cost.

In the past 15 months my marriage has been through the worst we have ever seen. We have been standing on this same brink, both of us holding our breath, afraid to move. I haven't had the courage to share it with anyone, let alone the world. I wish all of you a happier future on the other side. I so admire your strength.

I'm sorry Jason. This is great writing, but it comes at too high a price.

Damn. I'm sure it's no consolation, but you write beautifully.

::cyber hug::

I hope you, Debra and Wondergirl get through this, to whatever destination lies on the other side, with the minimum of scars.
I wish I could offer more, some advice or something, but hope is all I have to offer. I'm sorry.

So sorry, Jason. No words of wisdom, just my condolences. Hang in there.

Mr Harris, my heart goes out to you. I always hope that a new and stronger type of love could come from two people who are committed to each other even when the "spark" has faded, because I've known relationships where it has happened. But as we all know how imperfect this world can be, I hope you can navigate to the least painful resolution for all three you.

I hope this resolves itself, however it may fall, with a minimum of pain.

In the 11 years that my gf and I have been together, we've come close to ending it a few times.
Okay, I've come close. It was me. And yes, I've said those terrible words "I don't think I love you anymore."
But in my case, it was a combination of our not working well for long periods of time and my dealing with unhappiness by shutting off all emotion. I didn't love her because I couldn't feel much of anything. Nothing hurt much, but I didn't laugh for a few months either.
And as bad as it was to say it, it must have been a thousand times worse to hear it. I can't even explain how we got past it.

I'm so sorry, dear heart. Great gobs of love and strength to all of you.

dude.

I'm sorry.

I know how you feel.

My first girlfriend broke up with me unexpectedly, over IM, after we'd dating six months. Said that it was me, because I was Clingy and Possessive. Of course about a week or two later she started dating someone else.

same thing happened to a friend of mine just recently. Only his story is long and complicated.

They're both freshman at the college I just graduated from, they are both old for freshies, he's 21, she's 20. They were both in a video for a retreat that was being filmed that I was doing tech work for, they were the romantic lead. Now right there was the funny thing. But any how, she was according to him, apparently interested in someone else, but they ended up going to the opera that same night as the filming. They started dating that monday, (this was a Saturday when the filming was). This was either late September or early October. Fast forward to some point in November, I find out that they've been talking about marriage.

Yeahhhh.......between that and the fact that they'd only known each other for maybe 24 hours or less before dating, my 'this needs to be watched' senses came alive. When I wasn't a student, I was the relationship councilor. I had a show that I did, weekly on what not to do in relationships and what could be done to improve a relationship. I had a lot of listeners, including those overseas.

Anyhow, fast forward now to December somewhere between the 3rd through the 5th. they break up. Which is a surprise to all of us. I ask a few questions of both of them. from him I (the first time) get the fact that she's going to Germany for study abroad, that my mom doesn't want us dating, and a few other things. From her I got: he's spiritually immature, he's kept things from me, and a few host of other things. I get from the two sides....something's hinky in the land of "school name"

well....I was on campus today, and I run into him, I find out that the guy she was interested before him, and her are somewhat apparently interested, and that the week before the break up, that she and the other guy had held hands, and he'd been flirting and what not. ::Sigh:: this is why I try and not care. I also find out that said guy is apparently trying to turn his personality around to be acceptable to her...which reeks of a lot to me. When I find people doing that to try and get someone they like, and not be themselves, I call them on it.

So that being said ya'll.

Do not risk a relationship if you're not going to be your true self. He was, and risked everything and lost. the other guy won't be and could end up destroying her.

Today, out of the blue, my father told me that divorcing my mother 23 years ago was the biggest mistake of his life. I really didn't need him to tell me that: I see it in his eyes every time he sees her. True story.

Stick with it if you can. If there's no chance, be sure of it. And if it doesn't work out, you can always take the teaches of Peaches:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmFp0I8AZqw

and fuck the pain away.

I wish I could give you a big bear hug. I'd even let you cop a feel. THIS time.

XOXO

I guess I'm the only one who feels this way, but so fucking what if she isn't in love any more. The two of you have a kid and she made a commitment. That's whats wrong with relationships now, people expect them to be hollywood perfect forever. Feelings change. And they will change again. Unless some form of abuse is involved, suck it up and carry on.

I don't know you guys.
But If i knew your wife I would give her the same advice I have given to other friends.
I've been married 30 years and during our 30 years (and counting) of marriage I have gone though periods of being totally "meh" about the husband and pretty sure I no longer loved him.
These were years when I did not even want him to kiss me or sleep in the same bed let alone have sex.
But I still liked him.
And he is a patient guy who believed that a vow was a vow and we had a kid so there was no ending it.
Maybe I was just too lazy to leave, but sooner or later the bloom was back on the rose.
Right now it is almost like the honeymoon period again.

I am a very lucky lady that he stuck it out during those years.

I read this site regularly, even though I'm not all that more interested in movies than the next person. This article (like one on Gen Douchebag and a recent one on the proliferation of entertainment options) is one of those reasons. In the Digital Age, when information is superseded by the nanosecond, this I shall copy and keep on my hard drive.

Had I known that I would be reading this I would have kept a glass of water on my desk. It seems as if me and my fellow posters could collectively end a drought after this piece. I don't understand what you're going through on the surface level, but I understand (don't we all) how a deep pain can obliterate your sense of equilibrium and make you feel as though you've been given an impossible task in having to stand on your own two feet when all you're doing is falling. Lives and their composite events don't have to be identical for one or a groups of them to feel for the other, and judging by the warmth and depth of response here, it's more that clear that you've got a large and diverse cheering section. I think there's something fine about that, about resonating powerfully enough to draw that kind of response from such a seemingly unlikely source.

And consider this: this is the freaking internet! In a world where nothing can be gained by reading YouTube comments, a world of cartoon cum dribbles, Kevin Smith apologist sites, Facebook users, Twitter feeds and Canadians, it's pretty remarkable to find a place where so many people regard another with genuine affection and no fetish gear in sight (I think). I suppose you must've done something to merit that, huh?

I hope you get what you're looking for and really hope you get what you need. You're truly in my thoughts, fellow black person.

Blessings,
-M.M.M.

P.S. I'm getting a migraine so I didn't proofread this, but the sentiment and codeine still stands. Cyber-Solace.

Is love something that grows from “like?”
---
I think in our case, "like" grew from "love" -- all that heat, smoke and flash that ignites when you first hook up. After time that sort of settles down and you find out you either like who you married or you don't. I'm one of the lucky ones, I really like my wife, and I tell her that. And often that's an even better thing. She's my best friend.

The other ones ... well, at least you don't part loathing each other. Just drifting apart ... maybe that's sadder, somehow. I don't know.

I'm just kind of rambling because I don't know what I could say to console you, Jason, that wouldn't sound moronic. Good luck? Hey, back in the pool!? Man up?

See?

Best wishes to both of you, I guess. It's weak but it's all I can do from here.

...and suddenly the new tagline seems so fitting.

"I Wish You Love" and "Can't Take That Away from Me" were the two songs that buoyed me through my first real heartbreak (which may be still going on...) Somehow, they perfectly capture that emotion of not just the departure of love, but of a great friend (which in my particular case, makes the former song most accurate because he really wasn't ever a "lover.") It's such a strange place to be: when you hold no ill will toward them, you want them to be happy with whatever will make them happy, but why can't, isn't, won't that be you? At some point in the whole...THING...even after opening yourself bare to complete strangers on the Internets, you still can't seem to find the right words for all that you are feeling, all that is going on; you don't know what more and else can be said.

But you can still find the right song. And after a few more listens, something clicks a little and at least makes you feel a bit like maybe everything's gonna be okay after all.

Sending you and Wondergirl and Debra lots of hope and support.

Jason,
that was heartfelt as usual. I hope the best for you both,no matter what that may be.

Well said, and I sympathize.

I have been with my boyfriend for over 5 years, and there was a period of 6 months of more when I felt very much like your wife is feeling (or so I imagine from your description.) I just could not muster any feelings for the man anymore. And I didn't want anyone else, either. It's like a light turned off and I couldn't find the switch. We almost ended it there, on amicable but desperately sad terms.

I think the reason I didn't was fear of losing him, fear of dating, fear of the unknown. Sounds like a terrible reason to stick with it. But, we've grown so much closer in the 2 years that followed. For us, I think it was being honest about our "dark sides," which was a slow process. And being honest about our fears and doubts. It was incredible to find out after 5 years that he would accept me and be supportive (in his masculine, quiet way) of my deep-seated anxieties and shortcomings.

I know we're not the same, and your relationship is unique to the two of you. And I would never offer relationship advice to a stranger. Just wanted to relate how I felt that empty "I just don't love you anymore" and slowly realized that I did love him. Love isn't magic, and it certainly isn't static.

I wish you and your child and wife the best.

You're black?

I'm going through very much the same thing although my wife left it until after Christmas to drop the bomb shell (although I had known something was coming when she decided she'd rather be at work than spend her holiday time with me between Christmas and New Year). I'd just like to say thank you to both Jason for writing a such a lovely peice that explained my feelings in a way I never could and to all the Pajibans who, in giving advice and support to Jason helped me feel a little better. I love how although we're a snarky, sarcastic bunch normally, when one of our herd is threatened we all pull together.

That was beautifully written and hit me really close to home. I went through something similar but in our case it was less than 2 years after being married. There was no real reason, just a mix of things. Primarily that I was 22 years old, we had constant money problems from trying to find work, and I stopped trying because I didn't know you HAD to try. I was a very, very stupid boy. We were both 18 and in college when we met and were engaged 9 months after starting to date.

It took years to get over her because I made the mistake of still being friends with her because I couldn't stand the thought of losing my wife and my best friend and she was both. As painful as it is to say goodbye, you have to. That is the one piece of advice I can give you. Don't do the friends thing if you really do separate, at least not for several months after. If you still have feelings for her you will never be able to move on. You have to have contact for your child, but keep it as strictly business.

And you are absolutely right, heartbreak is a physical pain. I had no idea until I experienced it first hand.

Stay strong and keep writing. It helps and it does get better eventually. Just don't beat yourself up looking for reason. There is no point and it will drive you crazy.

We need to go drinkin'.

I admire that you've decided to focus on Wondergirl. That's where it should be.

I would like to add that what made me stay with my gf (after periods of thinking we weren't in love) was the sudden realization that we didn't have to be madly in love every single day.
I don't know why I ever thought that we did, but I can only say that we started dating when we were both 19 (is this a magical age or something?!) and I was still young and stupid a few years after that.

My friend's mother, married 45 years now, told me that sometimes you have to fall back in love.

And my new homily to friends who ask me "how do you know it's love"? You know when you're willing to do the work it takes. Because it can take a LOT of work sometimes. I'm glad I grew up enough to figure that out, because I would have lost a wonderful person.

I hope that whatever the outcome, there is at least effort made, on both your parts. Maybe it's just me, but I throw everything I've got at a problem before I deem it unsolvable. I consider it a great tragedy for a marriage to end where no one has tried.

I'm about to erase all of this because it sounds trite and smug. We're all giving you a lot of advice (and hugs) and maybe that's not what you want. But I've been where your wife is, and I guess I want you to know that I came back.

I dated my ex-husband on-and-off for ten years before we walked the aisle. We had two years of white-hot passion, followed by a year of tepid insecurity, followed by two years of white-hot getting-divorced hatred.

My boyfriend was with his ex-wife for 15 years, nine of them married, few of them happily. Their marriage was over at least five years before they separated. Despite acknowledging that, it took him over two years to obtain a divorce because she would not. let it. go. The devil she knew was more pleasing to her than being alone.

He and I are moving in together this summer. Neither one of us are in any hurry to walk that aisle again, as marriage as an ideal has sort of been shattered. But we're committed to each other and to the relationship, and we're taking the lessons learned and applying them to our future.

If divorce is the way you're headed, it will suck, no doubt. But, you can get through to the other side, and have the next time be even better. You can be smarter, sadder, wiser, more aware, more careful, have a better idea of what you want and need in a partner. Hold on to those things when it hurts the most.

I wish you luck.

So sorry, Jason. No advice here, only hugs. You'll get through this.

Your pain. I feel it.

No mushy stuff from me, though I could go that way. I do agree with the whole break-up song idea. Music gets me through just about anything.

I should have known my first marriage was doomed when the future ex-Mrs. Name chose Freebird as our wedding song.

Yes. Really. I still don't think she has actually learned the words and realized how completely innapropriate that was for the beginning of a relationship.

Then again, built-in break-up song!

I'm so sorry. I'm still married to my first husband, going on 30 years, so I don't have any experience to offer on divorce or breakups.

I do think they are like deaths in that you are going through mourning, and everyone handles that differently.

What do you do with the photos?
Whatever your heart tells you to do.
Just don't do anything rash.
You may want them later.

I'm so sorry. Whatever happens, I hope you, your wife and daughter find peace and happiness. You have our thoughts and hearts, Harris.

You're a great writer, and you have my condolences. Also, on the whole, I tend to agree with EricD. If there's a kid involved, it's kind of irresponsible to give up on a marriage just because the love isn't there anymore. Anyway, I'll pray for you and your family.

Oh, and as for the photo, I'd pack it away. You'll be able to look at it again with fond memories one day. And your little girl may want to have it someday too.

Aw, man, that sucks. Sorry.

I've never been married, but both of my sisters have been divorced, not at all amicably. It was several years before my one sister stopped referring to her ex as "the dirty motherfucker" (he dumped her for a 19-year-old he met at a convenience store when their kid was a year old). My other sister got divorced amid much stupid drama on both sides. My brother's baby mama (never married her, fortunately) is a crazy bitch (literally crazy).

So, if it's any consolation, marriage ending without acrimony or fault, just sadness, has gotta be better than the examples above. Maybe slightly easier on the kid, at least.

DO NOT throw away the picture. Your kid might want it someday. Or you might. But once you chuck it, you can't get it back. I am not the nicest person in the world, and that picture makes even me mist up a little bit. So it's gotta mean a whole lot more to the people involved.

Wow Jason, That's a heaping load of shit to deal with and I'm genuinely sorry it's on your plate. I know we've clashed before but all that shit aside, you seem like exactly the type of guy that can shoulder this whole mess and come out better on the other side. All things are temporary, no matter how much we wish they weren't. That being said, I've got three things.

Keep the picture, because if it hurts this much now, it'll be worth remembering down the line.
This is the best thing you've written for Pajiba. It's honest and heartfelt and every person here obviously had it resonate with them. That's more than some writers can pull off after a lifetime of sorrow.
You'll be alright, ladies love the chocolate.

I hope things settle somewhere comfortable for you man. Good luck.

Jason, I am so sorry for what you and your wife are experiencing now.

"Love is a choice" came to my mind too. Now, I am not married so I don't have the years of wisdom that some folks here have, but I've experienced a lot of emotional ups and downs with the Imperial Suitor. There was a day this summer when I had a blast meeting his family, but felt nothing towards him emotionally. I was really worried that the lack of gushy emotion meant my love had died.

But I've decided that he's worth loving, and so every day I decide to show that. Feelings change, euphoria comes and goes, but you always have to choose to put the other person first. Love means giving of yourself, and wanting what is best for the other person. From what you've written it sounds like you already know that.

I don't come out of hiding much. I have said it before and I'll say it again. Just, *hugs*
If I can do anything, let me know. You were there for me and I want to be there for you. It looks like our stories may have different endings, but hopefully I can help you like you helped me. Even if it is just with dirty jokes ;)
My presence may be spotty lately but, you know how to reach me!

Keep the photos- they will mean a lot to Wondergirl one day.

Hang in there kid- you will get through this, whatever the outcome.

x

the pain will pass. such quality work will endure. it is no comfort to you now, but one day it will be. i hope you guys can make it