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In Beleaguered Defense of Tyler Perry

By Dustin Rowles | Posted Under Think Pieces | Comments (57)



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If you’d never seen a Tyler Perry film, and the only thing you knew about Tyler Perry was what you read here on Pajiba, you’d probably be disappointed in what you saw. You’d be disappointed because you didn’t explode during the screening or walk out with a head full of flames. Tyler Perry’s films are bad, and they highlight the worst of African-American stereotypes, but there are worse films. To be honest, even among so-called “urban” films, I’d rather watch a Tyler Perry film than movies like The Cookout, First Sunday, The Lottery Ticket, or almost anything that features supporting roles by Keith David, Tommy Davidson, Katt Williams, or Eddie Griffin. Now, Eddie Griffin — that guy makes some seriously shitty films. In fact, as bad as Tyler Perry’s movies might be, the experience can often be uplifting — not because of the movie itself, but because of his audience, who obviously does get his films, and who yell and clap and, on one occasion I recall, dance in the aisles. It’s infectious, and for people whose profession it is not to make the distinction between the experience and the film itself, I can see how easy it might be to get swept up in it.

But most of those other “urban” films movies don’t make much money. Tyler Perry’s films do. And we demonize those who are the most successful at making a particular brand of bad. Crash was a bad film until it won the Oscar, and then it was the worst film ever made. Michael Bay is bad, but let’s be honest: Among action directors, there are worse. Rob Cohen? Roland Emmerich? Michael Bay is just the poster boy for shitty action films, like Tyler Perry is the poster boy for shitty “urban” films. But among the black guys in fat suits, Madea is considerably more watchable than Martin Lawrence’s Big Momma or Eddie Murphy’s Norbit. At least Tyler Perry is trying to impart a message. His movies are little morality plays — Norbit and Big Momma are just brain damaged fat jokes.

And I’ll say this, too: Of all the Tyler Perry films I’ve seen, there’s at least one or good strong performances in them. I hate that Tyler Perry drags respectable talent down to his level, but given the dearth of roles for black people in Hollywood, I’d rather they do his movies than an Eddie Griffin movie. Perry’s movies are littered with outstanding actresses: Alfre Woodard, Loretta Devin, Thandie Newton, Kerry Washington, Taraji P. Henson, Sanaa Lathan, Angela Basset, and Cicely Tyson, among others. And where else are you going to find Mary J. Blige, Macy Gray, or Maya Angelou? If it weren’t for Tyler Perry, half the great African-American actresses in Hollywood would never have a job (Regina King is one of the few that’s actually escaped a Tyler Perry film, but she’s due).

Given Tyler Perry’s obvious clout, I just wish that the man would wield it better, make more redeeming films, impart more positive messages that aren’t commingled with ugly stereotypes and sexism. The worst part of any Tyler Perry movie is invariably Madea, who not only clobbers those stereotypes to death, but who provides the LCD comic relief. the farts and the bawdy gags that often distract from the melodramas. I’ve seen five or six Tyler Perry films now, and in all of them, Madea played supporting roles (I have not seen the Diary of a Mad Black Woman films). I often even get annoyed with people who conflate the whole of Tyler Perry’s oeuvre with Madea, because it’s obvious they’ve never seen a Tyler Perry film, and you should at least rip them apart with a some knowledge of the movies. They are bad films, but they are not Norbit. They could not be further from that. However, it does seem to me that giving Madea an entire film is tantamount to making another Big Momma’s House with notes of crass spirituality. That’s what Madea’s Big Happy Family looks like.











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Comments

I think the aspirational element makes Perry's films worse, not better. Big Momma only wants to make money from dumb jokes. Tyler Perry believes he's saying something about the essential human condition and particularly about the experience of black America. The delusions of grandeur, the smug self-righteousness, the dumb stereotypes,passed off as insightful characters, the trite cliches masquerading as penetrating observations all make his films insufferable.

Also, before they get started, is there anyway we can set up a separate thread on this topic so Pookie and Yossarian can make out while the rest of us have a discussion?

Posted by: Tracer Bullet at February 10, 2011 9:57 AM

Crash was a bad film until it won the Oscar, and then it was the worst film ever made

Ive used this exact line while trying to explain my disdain for Crash to my baffled friends. At least most of them will admit that it not a very good flick.

Posted by: The_wakeful at February 10, 2011 10:07 AM

I don't have a dog in this fight, I've never seen a Perry movie and likely never will, I'm just (carefully) throwing this out there in hopes that someone else here will educate me:

What if the "stereotypes" are real people in Tyler's old neighbrohood? Isn't that possible?

Oops, I see a typo there that believe me wasn't intentional, kind of a Freudian slip thing, I guess. But I kinda like it so I left it in.

Posted by: , at February 10, 2011 10:10 AM

I've never seen any of those movies, and I don't plan to.

Posted by: Candee at February 10, 2011 10:21 AM

They are bad films, but they are not Norbit. They could not be further from that.


So you're saying that a black director has never made a better film than Tyler Perry? I don't think that you meant the statement in that fashion but it kind of reads like Perry's films are as good as it's going to get. I'll let Spike Lee and Singleton know that they can stop trying now.

Posted by: admin at February 10, 2011 10:31 AM

Maybe I’m a bit over sensitive when it comes to Tyler Perry. Maybe I defend him to the point of not being able to see the valid criticisms that his films draw. Maybe as an African American I take the criticisms of Perry personally, yes I know that’s a stupid why to view it. But sometimes I just feel like the criticisms of Perry are sometimes over the top as opposed to white directors. A white director can get away with making a shitty movie without him having to answer for his entire race. A white director can make a shitty movie and nobody will say that he makes his entire race look bad. To be honest the only times I hear the name Dr. Martin Luther King is when it is used to say that Tyler Perry makes African Americans look bad and that Dr. King would frown upon Tyler Perry. Every African American director for the last thirty years has had to answer questions about race, and trust me that shit gets old and tired. Hopefully a day will come when Tyler Perry can make a shitty movie and get away with it without having to answer for his entire race.

Posted by: Pookie at February 10, 2011 10:34 AM

People say that it's "racist" to have stereotype about a certain group of people (in this case "urban" which means "urban black American"), yet people from that group of people sustain (and affirm) that stereotype by creating films (i.e. Tyler Perry) or music that simply reinforce that stereotype. Or worse, people from said certain group act in such a way that they reinforce the stereotype.

This is true of all groups of people, not just "urban". For example, see all the "fat guy on the couch watching football while drinking beer" ads on TV. It's a stereotype, sure, but it has some basis in reality and both the media AND individual fat guys on couches continue to reinforce it.

So how is it racist to have stereotypes if stereotypes are relative accurate a large percentage of the time?

Posted by: bachelor at February 10, 2011 10:36 AM

I've caught bits and pieces of his movies on cable, nothing that would make me sit and watch them in their entirety.
I did, however, see an interview with him and decided he was a good guy. After surviving a horrid, wretched, abysmal childhood, he's got my vote. Awful, awful stuff... still, he managed to make something of himself and he really came off as sincere. His work may not be the best and brightest, but it's his, he means it, and he is genuinely happy about it. Clearly, there is an audience out there that is on that same boat.

I also agree that maybe (JUST MAYBE) his characters are caricatures (or not) of people he's known. I have a flock of idiot relatives - my movie would suck too.

Posted by: the other courtney at February 10, 2011 10:38 AM

I SO agree on Crash. I am still offended by ANYONE who likes that horrible piece of crap and I try to avoid having conversations with them. Mostly I'm pissed b/c Brokeback didn't win that year and I also avoid conversations w/people who didn't "get" Brokeback.

As for Tyler Perry...I agree, black actresses need an outlet and it's always nice to see Hollywood get a little color but the never-ending black Christian suffering that leads to supposed enlightenment in his movies sickens me. What am I a slave? As a black woman I'd love to fully support and and love "urban" movies but a lot of the time they cater to the most desperate, sad, and ignorant among us. Tyler Perry's movies may be on the high end of the problem but they still make me cringe.

Posted by: Desultory Vixen at February 10, 2011 10:49 AM

What's this "we" shit? I'm happy to demonize the worst and let everyone else demonize the popular.

I've never had a problem with Tyler Perry. He's not a great filmmaker, but he's created a niche (or figured out how to make it pay big bucks, whatever), so ... if white directors can make mediocre movies, why can't directors of color? Tyler Perry is a black man, he's not the ONLY black man, he shouldn't have to (and apparently doesn't) give a shit that some people think his movies suck. Enough people don't think that that he can not care all the way to the bank. I've seen a couple Tyler Perry movies. They're OK. They are far from the worst movies I've ever seen. Far from the most offensive, as well.

I think it's why a lot of people hate Oprah, which to me is like hating donuts. As far as I can tell, hating Oprah supposedly because of her popularity is really just the pussy way of hating her because she's black, which is why a lot of people actually hate her. She's a successful black woman and a lot of people hate to see any black person be successful. Plus, lots of men hate successful women (which I think is why a lot of people also irrationally hate Martha Stewart). If Oprah sat around and collected welfare and had 6 kids with 6 different fathers, they'd hate her, too. So basically, there's nothing Oprah or Tyler Perry can do to make some people happy, except stop existing, I guess. Or try to be less successful than equally ubiquitous assholes like Donald Trump, Simon Cowell or Glenn Beck at least, so all the white people out there will feel good about America again. 'Cause it's just not America unless all the women, brown people and black people know their places and stay there and not interfere with the white man's God-given right to feel superior to everyone else.

I see the same thing at work with Obama. He's not a bad president, but to hear some people bitch and moan endlessly about him, he's the Stalin of American presidents. I can only imagine how hated Obama would be if the guy who was president before him hadn't been so shitty at it by comparison.

Posted by: Slash at February 10, 2011 10:58 AM

Cause it's just not America unless all the women, brown people and black people know their places and stay there and not interfere with the white man's God-given right to feel superior to everyone else. I see the same thing at work with Obama.

So you're saying that the people "bitch and moan" endlessly about Obama is because he's a brown or black person who is not "staying in his place"? Then how do you explain all the bitching and moaning about George W? You could argue that George W was just stupid, and embarrassment to the country, etc. But a person who doesn't like Obama would argue the same thing about him. Why do people have to assume that if someone dislikes Obama it immediately has something to do with his race, instead of his personality, policies, beliefs, actions, etc?

Posted by: bachelor at February 10, 2011 11:07 AM

Also, before they get started, is there anyway we can set up a separate thread on this topic so Pookie and Yossarian can make out while the rest of us have a discussion?

Great idea. Why don't you call it "the back of the bus"? Prick.

Posted by: sansho1 at February 10, 2011 11:07 AM

Sorry, that was unfair. I'm sure you intend separate but equal threads.

Posted by: sansho1 at February 10, 2011 11:11 AM

I do agree that black actors (the female ones, too) deserve better movies than Tyler Perry provides, but Hollywood doesn't seem to be lining up to hand them great (or at least high-paying) roles the way it does with mediocre white actors. How many shitty movies is Adam Sandler going to get to make?

Adam Sandler is Exhibit A for why I don't have a problem with Tyler Perry. Tyler Perry is Martin Scorcese compared to Adam Sandler.

I've seen "Diary of a Mad Black Woman," and ... well, there's a lot of stuff crammed in there. My problem with the TP movies I've sen is he has so many subplots, none gets the time it deserves to really examine it. His movies are kinda like 4 different "dramedies" mashed up together, with a gospel choir thrown in to bring everybody together at the end.

Posted by: Slash at February 10, 2011 11:13 AM

It occurs to me that if people are dancing in the aisles of Tyler Perry movies, any attempt to judge the merits using the usual film critic's toolbox is beside the point. If TP's movies are primarily used as staging areas for a little boisterous fun, shouldn't you just throw up your hands and say okay?

Posted by: sansho1 at February 10, 2011 11:24 AM

As I am not a Latina woman completing my Master's in English literature, I acknowledge that I am in position to comment on certain aspects of this thread, but I would like to add my two cents on a somewhat related topic:

It irks me when people have found tremendous success in the film industry, have power and more money than God and STILL choose to make crap when they could be developing and bankrolling small inexpensive films. Steven Spielberg's decisions are the most egregious example of this and Perry seems to suffer from the same thing. Each man is/was desperate for artistic recognition, but persists in sandwiching their serious films between popcorn movies pandering to whatever their supposed audience is. Aren't both Perry and Spielberg gazillionaires? Don't they both own movie studios? What could they be doing for up and coming and overlooked writers, actors and directors if they only had the will to spend some money and finance movies that could develop careers and thus create for themselves the artistic credibility and immortality they long for.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at February 10, 2011 11:25 AM

I believe you mean "throw up your hands say YEAH"

Posted by: Ian at February 10, 2011 11:26 AM

And then the magical studio accountants we all hear about can use the films to write off losses and find an underhanded way for everyone to still make money.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at February 10, 2011 11:28 AM

Tp has found a niche and he succeeds overwhelmingly by playing to that niche. Unfortunately, because he's so successful from catering to the "big hat, Sunday go to meeting" ladies, Hollywood assumes that there is no other black audience and politely ignores the rest of us.
TP doesn't like light skinned, professional people. Doesn't like the "educated elite" of black society and portrays those people as villians in all his films. He reinforces the idea that education is bad and only people who have blue collar jobs are real black people. Howevr, he does his biggest damage to the black community by absolving Hollywood from any responsibility to pursue diversity in it's choices.

Posted by: khia213 at February 10, 2011 11:45 AM

@sansho1: I greatly enjoy watching you angrily miss the point

Posted by: Tracer Bullet at February 10, 2011 11:57 AM

Oh, there's a point? You're sure you weren't just kidding? All right, I'll try harder to get it, then.

So, it's not that they're black, it's that their opinions are driven by emotion instead of intellect, and this lack of rationality gets in the way of serious discussion? What a lovely postmodern cloak.

Posted by: sansho1 at February 10, 2011 12:15 PM

So as a white guy, in a very racially sensitive world, I choose no to have an opinion on Tyler Perry movies. They aren't made for me. I'm at least smart enough to see that. I'm not gonna lambast Perry for not being an icon for his entire race. That's not his job. He's a movie director, making movies for African Americans, starring African Americans. Go him. He's providing jobs for talented actors and actresses. I think Perry is kind of like Kevin Smith. He makes movies for a very specific group of people. Those people love those movies. Sounds to me like success. Not everything is meant to be viewed through that arthouse lens. All that considered I'm not going to go watch his movies, he doesn't need my money.

Posted by: Blank at February 10, 2011 12:20 PM

Well, since I don't know Yossarian's race and, ya know, I happen to be black myself, no. Their race had nothing to do with it.

Posted by: Tracer Bullet at February 10, 2011 12:29 PM

There is nothing wrong with disliking things that are popular and profitable if we deem them undeserving. It's part of our culture to deride the man who has built his house on the hill with the money he earned from mediocre endeavors. Race, religion, or political affiliation don't matter -- if you are wealthy, popular and less than perfect people will stand in line to attack you. The scent of imperfection is like blood in the water.

How many of you like James Cameron? George Lucas? Michael Bay? All of these people made fortunes selling products that have the potential to be great, but fall tragically short. We allow ourselves the privledge of deriding them because we see them as less talented, and thusly less deserving of fame and fortune. It how we get to sleep at night on our old, beaten matresses.

Posted by: superasente at February 10, 2011 12:32 PM

It's unfortunate but hard to avoid that whenever a person of a particular group (race, culture, religion, sex, etc) creates anything involving that group, then it's a commentary whether they like it or not. I do think TP is preaching to a community, but I'm not sure that makes him the spokesperson for Modern Black America. He's maximized on what he does best.

And that was a really inarticulate way of saying that just belonging to any group that isn't the mainstream majority (white male in the US) automatically shines a spotlight on those particular characteristics, and forces commentary whether or not there is one. When your subject matter does actually happen to focus on those differences, then you're forced to make a statement whether you want to or not. And I think Tyler Perry choses to make his statement more *to* the Black community rather than *about* it.

And when it doesn't, I think it might make some of the mainstream uncomfortable. Hughes brothers' From Hell, anyone?

Overall, though, I'm not a fan of the films. I only like my stereotypical inspiration to come via school or sports films.

Posted by: leuce7 at February 10, 2011 12:33 PM

Part of the problem with Perry's material is that it uses the very same stereotypes and tropes as some of the other movies you mentioned. So that on a first glance, they appear no different than Lottery Ticket, Norbit, et al.

And while I do want to give Perry credit for being far more intelligent than he lets on, I do think he's fallen into a bit of a trap where he's doing what people expect from him -- Madea, women struggling and overcoming via their love of Jesus, etc.

(Don't make me go pull out The Boondocks episode on Perry).

As for the idea of attacking the popular, the only way something is popular is by lowering itself to some common standard. It's why everyone loves "CSI" and disregards "The Wire."

Posted by: Fredo at February 10, 2011 12:39 PM

OK, I'll take your word for it. You still haven't explained what "the point" was.

Posted by: sansho1 at February 10, 2011 12:40 PM

RE khia213: Tp has found a niche and he succeeds overwhelmingly by playing to that niche. Unfortunately, because he's so successful from catering to the "big hat, Sunday go to meeting" ladies, Hollywood assumes that there is no other black audience and politely ignores the rest of us. TP doesn't like light skinned, professional people. Doesn't like the "educated elite" of black society and portrays those people as villians in all his films. He reinforces the idea that education is bad and only people who have blue collar jobs are real black people. Howevr, he does his biggest damage to the black community by absolving Hollywood from any responsibility to pursue diversity in it's choices.
------------------------------------

True, from the couple of TP movies I've seen, and the way his movies are marketed (ie, the trailers). It's very clear he (to judge strictly by his writing) thinks the po' black folk are the real strength of the black community and the professional, highly educated black people are ... something bad. Which is ironic, given how rich and relatively influential he is now.

To be absolutely fair, though, lots of white writers/directors share this same bias, or pretend to, anyway, ie, portray educated and/or wealthy business people as assholes and criminals and villains intent on exploiting their white underlings.

Posted by: Slash at February 10, 2011 12:43 PM

You know what, I think maybe we needed Bigtodd, We could all unify under the banner that we hated one thing....Him. Now that he's gone there's all this infighting.

Let's all just calm down for a second and think about what's important.

How much we hated Bigtodd.

Posted by: Blank at February 10, 2011 12:43 PM

Blank, your Kevin smith comparison is right other than that you might be one of the things hurting this country.
No one says you can't see a "black" movie. I'm sure you have opinions about other races but have you really learned who these people are? You are free to have an opinion but please try to get a NON-BIASED amount of information before coming to the conclusion that black people are completely seperate beings from you you can't understand

Posted by: guy rossi at February 10, 2011 12:44 PM

Regina King is one of the few that’s actually escaped a Tyler Perry film, but she’s due

YOU SHUT YOUR DAMN WHORE MOUTH!!!

Do NOT wish a TP movie on my Regina! I've already had to cut off Angela Bassett and Sanaa Lathan for soiling themselves with his tripe (I can't quit Kerry Washington though).

As for the Perry? My big problem, besides being too intelligent to be his target audience, is that he wouldn't know subtlety if it came and kicked him in the 'nads. It's like this: it's one thing to talk about natural child birth, and quite another to be physically in the birthing room, shoulder-to-shoulder with the mid-wife. The Perry takes it one step further and pushes you face-first into the placenta. Why? Because in his world, that's the only thing that's real - the EXTREME edges of reality. A black man can't just have a bad day! Noooooo - his wife has to burn his breakfast toast, the dog has to run away and be run over by a semi, his daughter has to confess to being pregnant with twins for her cousin and his in-laws have to show up unannounced for an extended stay. And THEN he has to be fired from his blue-collar, 8-to-6-with-no-paid-overtime job (in order to be replaced by a white man).

Sorry, there is no such thing as defending or redeeming the Perry.

Posted by: malikvlc at February 10, 2011 1:01 PM

Guy Rossi,
You're reading me all wrong man. I didn't say that Tyler Perry was Marketing to black people and Aww shucks I cants understand them colored people. Tyler Perry markets to a very specific group of black individuals. Generally Hyper religious, low income, black families. The people that come from the neighborhoods I grew up in. I on the other hand chose to leave those neighborhoods because the values held up in those places and those movies weren't neccesarily the same ones I shared. Doesn't make them wrong, they just aren't mine. Nor are they the values shared by my black friends. People who choose not to be represented as charicatures. I never said I can't see a black movie. I'm a big Spike Lee fan. I said I choose not to watch Tyler Perry movies, and I choose not to have an opinion on him. Believe it or not some (not fucking all, because some people are capable of making a generalization based on a group of people within a race without that generalization applying to every single member of said race) African Americans relate to Tyler Perry movies. He makes a lot of money off those people. If they are comfortable being represented in that way, it's not my place to judge.

Posted by: Blank at February 10, 2011 1:01 PM

Well said, Blank.

Posted by: superasente at February 10, 2011 1:04 PM

Sansho1, you clearly missed the thread yesterday where Yossarian and Pookie were going at it. Which is what Tracer was alluding to, and had you read that, you'd understand his point.

All of which is my long-winded way of saying: "drop it, because you have no idea what you're talking about."

Posted by: The Other Agent Johnson at February 10, 2011 1:07 PM

I forgot to mention the REAL reason to hate Tyler Perry. He took a Alex Cross role from Idris "Sexual Chocolate" Elba. For that, TP should be damned to the hottest section of hell that only runs his movies and that fucking Pepsi Max commercial with the mad black woman.

Posted by: khia213 at February 10, 2011 1:07 PM

I just have to say that it offends the hell out of me when men create these women characters for themselves. I don't particularly like that the women they create tend to be fat and sassy stereotypes, but mostly I see this the same way as I see white guys playing people of color (all of the "injuns" in old westerns, Mickey Rooney in Breakfast at Tiffanys, etc.). There are plenty of fabous actresses out there, some of whom are even fat. Let them speak for themselves.

Posted by: elsie at February 10, 2011 1:14 PM

Guy Rossi,
You're reading me all wrong man. I didn't say that Tyler Perry was Marketing to black people and Aww shucks I cants understand them colored people. Tyler Perry markets to a very specific group of black individuals. Generally Hyper religious, low income, black families. The people that come from the neighborhoods I grew up in. I on the other hand chose to leave those neighborhoods because the values held up in those places and those movies weren't neccesarily the same ones I shared. Doesn't make them wrong, they just aren't mine. Nor are they the values shared by my black friends. People who choose not to be represented as charicatures. I never said I can't see a black movie. I'm a big Spike Lee fan. I said I choose not to watch Tyler Perry movies, and I choose not to have an opinion on him. Believe it or not some (not fucking all, because some people are capable of making a generalization based on a group of people within a race without that generalization applying to every single member of said race) African Americans relate to Tyler Perry movies. He makes a lot of money off those people. If they are comfortable being represented in that way, it's not my place to judge.

Posted by: Blank at February 10, 2011 1:01 PM


Blank, whatever you do please don’t leave the impression that only low income, religious driven black folk were the ones that made Perry a billionaire. As some one that has seen some of Perry’s movies at the theaters I’m here to tell you that black, white, old and young go to see his movies. So this silly notion that somehow black families on food stamps are Perry’s main supporters is pure bullshit. Also Blank, don’t act like Spike Lee is some paragon of truth. He’s had his season of saying and doing some dumb shit too. I would rather you not look down your nose on those black folk that do enjoy TP, because those same black folks supported Spike Lee when he first started out, I know because I was one of them.

Posted by: Pookie at February 10, 2011 1:49 PM

So I wrote this big long post, to explain why everything you just said missed the point. Then I realized, it's stupid. You're arguing the same fucking thing I'm arguing, yet somehow I'm the asshole. I apparently have a way of getting under way too many people's skin here. I give up. I'm going back to lurking, it beats trying to have a conversation.

Posted by: Blank at February 10, 2011 2:21 PM

Blank I'm not calling you an asshole, I think your comment has a point. I just disagree with some of it, please don’t leave. Stay and enjoy the conversation. I don’t think any of us has the power to solve the TP conundrum, though we try.

Posted by: Pookie at February 10, 2011 2:29 PM

Shhhh, Pookie, let those guys do their talking. Come over here, it's OK. I'm sorry about the other night. You know how I get sometimes when you start in about right wing pundits and I'm under all this pressure at work... I lose my temper sometimes but I'm sorry. We're still cool, right?

Hey, come on, let's let Rowles and Harris break down colored people cinema for these hipsters. You and me got stuff to work out. Yeah, I may be white but hey, we're all the same with the lights out am I right? Come on, don't go to bed angry. It's OK. You want me to rub those shoulders? Maybe I can get you a drink? Just ignore them, Pookie. It's just about you and me now.

Posted by: Yossarian at February 10, 2011 3:07 PM

Awwww....

Posted by: Kargoyle at February 10, 2011 3:23 PM

No Yossarian, I should be the one to apologize to you. Sometimes I go off the reservation and I say stupid things. You are one of the more sane voices here at Pajiba. Please accept my apology.

Posted by: Pookie at February 10, 2011 3:24 PM

Sorry, I'm obviously out of the loop.

Where's this "Pookie and Yossarian go to battle" thread everyone's talking about? It must be entertaining.

Posted by: Slash at February 10, 2011 3:25 PM

Dammit you guys, I was all set to pack up my keyboard. But that just made me all warm and fuzzy inside. If it gets any cuter in here...well I just might start pooping jelly beans.

Posted by: Blank at February 10, 2011 3:29 PM

@ Slash, The post was up yesterday called "10 Pop-Culture Facts That Hammer Home the Reality of Just How Depressingly Dumb Americans Are".

At least I'm pretty sure that's the one.

Posted by: Kargoyle at February 10, 2011 3:30 PM

"Solve the conundrum?" There's no conundrum to solve. Either you like his movies and want to see them, and him, succeed, or you don't and you'd rather he stop making movies. These things go through cycles, and eventually the patina will wear off of Tyler Perry. Someone else will take his place. Though, I do get what you're saying, Pookie, in feeling that he does get unfair criticism (or, maybe just the context of the criticism, not necessarly too much of it) simply because of his race.

Having seen only a couple of his movies, earlier works, and only because we played them at the Blockbuster I worked at, I can say that my experience with him left me baffled. Every time I had a moment to look up and watch, I'd just see unoriginality fill the screen. Not just the stereotypes, but everything he does from the structure and content of his scripts/jokes/messages, to his directing style, to the way he portrayed his characters. All of it, every bit, I've seen in other movies (some times done better, other times not) or TV shows. And yet, people rented the hell out of his movies. Every. Single. Day.

Pookie is also right that his audience is wide ranging; it ain't just black folks who adore his movies, and it ain't just people over 40, either. Whether it's because one segment sees themselves on the screen and enjoys having their existence edified, and the other segment of the audience sees those people on the screen and enjoys seeing their preconceived notions edified, I've no idea. But, dealing with the people (customers) who loved his stuff, it wouldn't surprise me.

That said, I'd put money on the Lowest Common Denominator. The same people also loved the third Friday incarnation, as well as Click, and whatever season of Carlos Mencia's show was out at the time. Never overestimate the American moviegoing public.

Oh, and what thread were Yossarian and Pookie duking it out? It's slow at work today, and that sounds like a sufficiently epic read...?

Posted by: RobP at February 10, 2011 3:33 PM

@Blank: Y'know who else loved pooping jelly beans? Ronald Reagan. True story.

Posted by: RobP at February 10, 2011 3:34 PM

Yeah, ok so I was wrong. I just went over a list in my head of all the people I've met, that while perusing their movie collection I came across a Madea DVD. It's mostly underevolved white people.

Side note, RobP. You've ruined pooping jelly beans for me. I'll just go back to being a responisble adult now....Phooey.

Posted by: Blank at February 10, 2011 3:49 PM

I love it when a good Pookssarian comes together.

Posted by: Ian at February 10, 2011 4:08 PM

@Blank: Aww, you can still have fun. I was just noting that, with as much as Reagan liked eating jelly beans, he must've loved the natural, digestive side-effects.

Personally, I prefer pooping Skittles.

Posted by: RobP at February 10, 2011 4:32 PM

Very nicely done.

Now defend:

A)The Kardashians
B)Paris Hilton
or
C)Speidi

Go.

Posted by: greer at February 10, 2011 5:26 PM

This reminds me of the episode of South Park where Cartman is trying to bate the boys into starting a war with China after watching the Olympics and the other boys spend the whole time saying "dude, trust me we don't want to get involved in this one."

Posted by: daria at February 10, 2011 5:34 PM

RE Kargoyle: thanks for the tip.

K, read the Pookie-Yossarian throwdown, and meh ... not all that bad. Filled with invective, sure, but ... it's just the internet. Nothing to be afraid of. If it scares you, just turn it off, like the TV.

Posted by: Slash at February 10, 2011 6:42 PM

I'm a cinnamon-skinned man who despises Tyler Perry, but at the moment I'd rather be joking about the comparative career trajectories of Chris Klein and Charming Potato.

Posted by: Jerry at February 11, 2011 1:10 AM

The thing I like about Tyler Perry's movies is that you're never left guessing. Everything's in Black and White. If there's a villain in the story, he/she is GUARANTEED to be one-sided and over the top in his/her actions. There's no nuance and everything's simple to grasp. I like it that Tyler Perry doesn't make me think. He even spoon-feeds me the moral of the story, so I don't have to figure it out. But that said, there's a target audience for Perry's movies and they're no better or worse than any other director's target audience. Also, it's correct that at least his movies give Black actors more work than "mainstream" movies where they have to play the fat, black sassy friend or the idiotic comic relief. I'm Black too, in case anyone wanted to make a point about it.

Posted by: Marvelous Mousey at February 11, 2011 2:14 PM

Now that I read my comment, my sarcasm about loving Perry's work doesn't really show through. Sorry about that. I prefer Spike over Perry any day, but I can watch a Perry movie whenever I don't feel like thinking. I understand why Perry exists as a film-maker, even if he isn't exactly a consummate Black director.

Posted by: Marvelous Mousey at February 11, 2011 2:17 PM

At it's core, my issue with TP is that he seems to be the only voice out there, and that every other "urban" movie being green-lighted is seeking to capitalize on TP's success by copying his formula. I don't have a problem with stereotypes or broad, predictable comedy, but that's all it seems we're being allowed to do. Where are the dramas, action, and sci-fi films that feature a predominately Black cast? I know they are being written and submitted (I've read a few) but they just aren't getting made. That's a problem bigger than Tyler, Spike, Antione, John, or Kasi.

For me, it's really more about parity in the landscape rather than tearing down the only mansion in the neighborhood. Tyler Perry can, and should, exist as a filmmaker making the kind of films he's good at making. I just wish there was someone else making something else for the rest of us.

Posted by: ceejeemcbeegee at February 12, 2011 12:13 AM