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Does 'The Walking Dead' Still Have A Woman Problem?

By Joanna Robinson | Think Pieces | November 4, 2013 | Comments ()


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Almost exactly a year ago TK wrote a magnificent piece on race and gender in AMC’s The Walking Dead. In it he expressed his frustrations with how the show has handled both the female and non-white members of the cast. But this season started out with such promise. The two most divisive female characters, Andrea and Lori, were gone. Yes, they died horribly and I’d much rather the show do the work to rehab problematic characters rather than just do away with them entirely but, one way or another, The Woman Problem was eliminated. The Interchangeable Token Black Guy Problem was solved too, right? I mean, there are still issues. If Tyreese doesn’t get development soon, he’s in danger of becoming much the same glowering archetype that Michonne was last year. But look at this Away Team. The former redneck’s the minority here, folks. And they all interacted with each other and no black male cast member was harmed to make room for Larry Gilliard Jr.’s alcoholic Bob Stookey.

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So we started this season clean without a women to hate and a stronger, more diversified cast. Then what happened? Then they gave us someone new to hate. They gave us Carol.

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Carol who we loved. Carol and Daryl who we shipped. Carol who has had such a fascinating arc the subtext of which is made text when Carol explains how she used to feel about her abusive husband and how that cowering woman bears no resemblance to the person who burned those two sick people alive. Carol has gone through hell like nearly all of the original cast members. (Except Glen who ::cough:: until now ::cough:: has been relatively* lucky.) She lost her daughter and her husband (ass though he was) and that kind of profound sorrow must change a woman. We saw her harden, we saw her find strength. But somewhere between last season and this season she lost something. As if, to make room for all that strength she carved away at her own humanity. Though we know a significant amount of time passed between the last season the fact that this transition happened off-screen makes the character development feel rough and inorganic.

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But change, in general, isn’t the problem here. We like it when characters change. Heck, Carol’s adopted daughter Lizzie had an on-the-nose speech all about how people change: “I’m little now. If I don’t die, I’ll get big. I’ll be me, but I’ll be different. It’s how it is. We all change. We all don’t get to stay the same way we started.” Lizzie and her sister Mika certainly the key to unlocking Carol this season. Since they were entrusted to her and since she lost her own daughter, we can possibly rationalize Carol burning people alive in order to protect those girls. Possibly, but not easily. But there was a callousness from Carol in this episode, one Rick witnessed and used to make his judgment. “It was a nice watch” she said to Rick as they were preparing to leave the injured Sam behind. As if that had anything to do with Rick’s hesitation. She’s absolutely cold there, embodying the “indifference” that gives the episode its title. And so Rick, with a heavy heart, casts her out. Can we blame him? Are our sympathies still with her? Can a character whom we’ve loved for years fall from grace so quickly? And is it troubling that now that Andrea and Lori are gone the show felt the need to slot another controversial woman into their place?

And then we have Michonne. Oh yes, the one who was on both troublesome lists last year for being a glowering cipher who did nothing at all to ease our concerns about either sympathetic female or complicated black characters. But this season the Michonne arc is running parallel to and in the opposite direction of Carol’s.

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We saw the difference in Michonne from the second she arrived this season. For one thing, Danai Gurira is absolutely dazzling when she smiles. While Carol has apparently withdrawn a bit from the group between the two seasons, Michonne made connections and built relationships. In fact, she’s slipped right into Carol’s old role as Daryl’s partner in ship. We also saw, when Michonne was asked to hold Judith, a terrifying glimpse into what Michonne has lost, what made her into the walking scowl we met last year. Another similarity to Carol.

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I don’t have much to say about Maggie, she’s been somewhat sidelined so far this season. Next week promises to be Maggie-centric, though, so more as that develops. Gender roles are so interesting in this universe. What does it mean to be a man here? Aggressive traits are valued in both sexes. See: Daryl literally exhibiting alpha animal behavior this week. Then again, the most nurturing figure in this show is not a female. It’s Hershel.

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But how troubling is it that the females are so easily shuffled in place to fill the holes left by others? We need a problematic woman, one who will confront our notions of what it means for a woman to care and protect her family in this world gone mad. Lori’s gone? Well Carol will do. But who will play Carol? Who will cozy up to Daryl? Here. Have a Michonne. Life changes. War changes us. But it shouldn’t make us interchangeable.

*a very loaded term in this universe



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Comments Are Welcome, Jerks Will Be Banned


  • occupybikeseat

    I see lots of folks hating on Rick for making a decision to banish Carol without council input. Remember that Carol made a decision to kill and burn two people, without council input. Carol has been on a path to losing her nurturing side for a while now. Her decision was the culmination of that. Carol had become much more group focused as Rick became more family focused.

  • St

    That first picture of Melissa kills me everytime I open this article. Where is it from? Some bloopers or "making of"? And that one where Carol powerfully stares from the cell? Remember how Carol was quiet and depressed mother and wife? And now she is almost like some powerful badass villain. Love her. This is what happens when you hire good actress.

  • garfieldhatesmondays

    I don't really understand this article. Most people seem to like Carol even more now that she's changed and gotten tougher.

  • The Gaf

    Nobody hates Carol- except Tyreese when he finds out. And she'll be back. No worries.

  • Nadiney

    See, I really liked that Carol was teaching the kids to fight. I found it very, very VERY odd that in the midst of an Ongoing Zombie Apocalypse, that ANYONE would have a problem with teaching the most vulnerable how to defend themselves.
    I mean, her obvious, unspoken motivation was 'If I had taught Sophia this...' but like...why did that have to go unspoken?
    I don't understand at all why she felt the need to keep it a secret. Every fucking idiot in the prison, in a prison populated by a an ACTUAL COP, by ex military people, by just badasses left right and centre, why ANYONE is unable to fight. The block D incident seemed to suggest that a lot of the gathered civilians can't fight. Fuck, most of last season seemed to be trying to suggest that the Woodbury folks can't fight, hence why the Governer became so popular; not because he was definitely a good guy even to the people he faked it for, but because he had armed men that knew how to defend themselves.
    Like...there is no, nada, zero excuse that the children of the prison CANT handle a gun.
    I know, I know, Carl turning into a little sociopath was meant to be a bad thing and to a degree it was. But you know what else Carl is? Fucking ALIVE. Sophia couldn't fight for shit and she died.
    Other than creating some bullshit reason for Carol to be alienated from the group, there was no reason to hide from the others that she was teaching self defense. It's pathetic. It's not good writing. In that situation those kids should be spendin at least a couple of hours a day doing weapons and self defense drills.
    Like, Herschel and Carl. Herschel telling Carl he 'doesn't need' to shoot the zombies in the woods around he prison.
    Yes. Yes you do. They are fucking ZOMBIES. ZOMBIES. HERSCHEL. CARL DIDN'T NEED TO KILL A LIVING HUMAN BUT HE NEEDS TO KILL ZOMBIES BECAUSE THEY ARE ZOMBIES.

  • Kibbles

    My biggest issue with Carol being transformed into the unflinching pragmatist willing to do whatever is necessary to ensure the survival of the group is that we've already seen this film. Apparently now Carol is just Shane, only without the crazy rapey sense of people ownership (admittedly a huge improvement). Carol teaches the kids how to use knives; Shane taught the women and children how to shoot. Carol perceived a threat within her own home, so she killed it and burned it; Shane perceived a threat within his own home, so he broke open the barn door and shot it. Carol's interactions with her young wards call to mind Shane's interactions with young Carl. Carol sending the hippies to their death might not have been as callous as Shane shooting Otis, but it was every bit as calculated. Even Carol's speech to Rick asking him what he would do if Carl and Judith were at stake called to mind Shane's constant nagging of Rick to worry less about others and focus more on defending his family. I half-expected Rick to point out the obvious parallels when Carol brought up Shane. The final confrontation with Rick was depressingly predictable and familiar.

    If the show's writers want to make Carol a sympathetic character, I'm not sure invoking comparisons to one of the most intentionally unlikeable characters in the show's history is the way to start.

  • Naye

    I dont concern myself with the interchanging of characters. In a show where people die all the time, someone else has to fill the shoes someway. There are only so many interesting archetypes. "Everybody has a job to do"

  • SeattleIsInfected

    If the Daryl/Carol thing goes unconsummated and he runs away with michonne without a backwards glance I'm going to be quite irate.

  • Chris M

    I did not even like Carol until she became GI Jane. These past 4 episodes were actually making me appreciate the journey she evidently is on. Couldn't stand the mealy-mouthed version of Carol who was relegated to midwife status for 2 seasons and then awkward love interest for the bad boy hunk for one season.

    That being said, I'm not sad she is gone because I've disliked the character much longer than not. I think anyone who becomes as strong-willed, independent, and bossy as Rick is not long for this world. Man or woman, black or white, they are written off if they become too familiar. That Glenn and Hershel are still around baffles me, though it seems they are on their way out as we speak (the moment they stop being only mildly useful).

  • John W

    I definitely think they have a woman problem. The way they handled Andrea's character was terrible and they lost a good actress in the process.

    If they do the same thing to Carol I'm going to be pissed off.

  • St

    yeah. No one would hate Andrea if she would not do stupid things. And shy did stupid things? Because writers wrote them for her. You can’t blame actress, you can’t blame character. Writers are the one who did this.

  • Ruffian9

    Welp, I've hated her from the beginning, so I'm just sorry she hasn't actually been killed off.

  • Dennis Albert Ramirez

    so, of course, a little perspective is warranted, in that 3 seasons worth of uneven character development and multiple showrunner's are not going to be fixed in 4 episodes to everyone's satisfaction or even just the "correct" baseline, whatever that is.

    that said, i don't think the writers are intending for Carol to be a problematic woman to meet a quota. maybe it feels that way to some because they've had problems writing women with multiple dimensions before.

    in Carol, this season anyway, they've finally done a complicated woman right, because her complications stem from her experience and surroundings, not from her gender.

    my favorite thing about the Rick/Carol story this episode was that the writers finally presented a dilemma that didn't have an easy answer. both Rick and Carol were completely justified in their views, which are in many ways the same view, just in opposition. the difference is, Carol has lost her family, while Rick still has his, so he can probably make himself feel better for acting by himself by claiming his family over the group's needs, where that's all Carol has left. he even does so alittle bit, claiming he doesn't want his family to be around the shitstorm revealing Carol's actions will bring. and fair enough.

    but Carol also got in like 5 sick burns calling out Rick on his hypocrisy. she's finally realized the strength she's had all along (it's almost as if the zombie apocalypse is the best thing that happened to her, in a terrible way), and is trying to use it the only way she knows how. that means making tough decisions while Rick is playing farmer when it is convenient for him to do so. she killed in self-defense just like Rick, but the circumstances are less intimate for her than it was for him. that the plague spread despite her killing the two known carriers at the time is not the point in her view, it's that someone had to do something besides have council meetings and soul-search.

    so in the end, Rick is a heavy-hearted hypocrit again but it made sense for him, and Carol is left to fend for herself, resigned but determined to survive. and it's finally a legitimate "are you team This One or That One" dilemma.

    Tyreese definitely would have killed her if she had come back, but i also wager Daryl will come pretty close to killing Rick when he finds out as well. in the abstract, it's easy to argue Carol is right or Rick is right, but in their specific situation, the consequences of either's worldview is pretty much a zero-sum game.

    i dunno, i may be rambling and probably off topic per Joanna's article, but i just liked the episode. it's the slowest this season, but i mean that's ok, we learned a lot and it's a great setup for some drama next episode. i have no doubt Carol will be back later in the season, it's not like she's giving interviews about not being on the show anymore.

    i do feel they aren't giving enough time to Bob and Tyreese's development, but again, we are only 4 episodes in, with plenty more to go. maybe it's just cause this season they aren't wasting time with plot points that it feels slow, paradoxically.

    and seriously: when Rick said he didn't kill two people from their group, and she replies, yeah, just one, i almost broke my hand high-fiving the TV screen. team Carol all the way

  • Enrique del Castillo

    Saw the episode yesterday, talked to my friends about how it paled in comparison to last week's and how we'll miss Carol; woke up today and saw that apparently me and my friends are crazy, since we actually like Carol.
    I mean, last time a sick person was allowed to die, Phineas (or Ferb, don't know which one he voices) killed at least 10 people. Carol's behavior was extreme, but it's understandable and finally gets stuff done and acknowledges her abusive husband and dead daughter. If anything, this episode made me like her more.

  • axis2clusterB

    I bet Daryl's smokes are really fucking stale.

  • Zoe1078

    I have to believe Carol will make a reappearance if the show doesn't get cancelled before it can happen. How many main characters have truly left the show without being killed off? They even bring the dead ones back in flashbacks or as ghosts.

  • DarthCorleone

    I was disappointed and surprised that the writers opted to settle the Carol issue by banishing her. As I said on one of last week's threads, I thought the murders set up great storytelling potential for how the microcosm of society in the prison functions with regard to justice. Perhaps down the road should Carol return, that potential could still be utilized.

  • AvaLehra

    The real question we should be asking is, WHY DOESN'T HER HAIR GROW?! They've been out in the wild for what, a year? And her hair still hasn't grown? In a show that deals with zombies and seriously whacked shit, I'm shaking my head and saying, "Her hair doesn't grow. What kind of f*cked up shit is that?"

  • St

    Yeah. I love Carol but I roll my eyes on her hair too often. He hair is just so perfect all the time. And I love it because that haircut suits her. But I just wonder how can Carol and Glenn can be so clean and have nice haircuts all the time. While Carl, Rick, Daryl and even Hershel look so rough and dirty all the time. They are not lost on an island with no scissors and civilization. They can allow themselves to have short haircuts. Rick can shave once in a while. Daryl should cut his hair at least a little. He was having good hair in season first. For me he looks kinda ridiculous with that long greasy hair on his face.

    And it’s obvious that Rick is using hair gel to carefully put his hair behind. Also look at that alcoholic doctor. He shaves every day and cuts his hair all the time. While Rick just let himself and his son go. Also that grey beard ages him so much. I don’t know how old he is suppose to be. But he looks like he is 45 years so often now.

  • John G.

    Geordi? Is that you?

  • Julie Chase

    I'm pretty sure they have scissors.

  • Art3mis

    I assume she's keeping it cut short. Which is a very smart idea the other ladies should adopt -- you don't want a walker grabbing your long hair as you try to get away.

  • Julie Chase

    I don't know...not once have I felt hate towards Carol. I feel empathy for her
    situation, and a bit of nausea towards her coldness, but mostly I am
    fascinated by how she's changed in the face of constant loss and horror. We don't have to hate anyone.

    Well, I hated Rick a little last night.

  • Anybody else's pants just fall right the hell off when Daryl got all alpha-dog on Bob?

    No? Just me? A'ight.

  • axis2clusterB

    Not just you at all. Norman Reedus has ALL the charisma.

  • SeattleIsInfected

    Dude. I'm pretty sure i orgasmed as it was happening.

  • Ruffian9

    Hell yes

  • Brooke Michelle

    *raises hand*

  • MrsAtaxxia

    Not just you.

  • ZbornakSyndrome

    I couldn't possibly hate Carol, I can't hate anyone that calls Rick on his idiotic shit.

    I'm not sure the race problem is gone. I'm a little uncomfortable with how the white men (Daryl on the away mission, or Rick anywhere else) are in charge constantly and get to determine punishment for everyone that they feel has "betrayed the group". In fact, this show still seems very much themed around "White men berate women and people of color for their shortcomings".

    Last week we had Tyrese become so crazed with grief, two white men had to beat him to the ground. That...disturbs me. Why is the black man so out of control? Why must the white men settle him down?

    This week, we had Daryl teach Michonne about being part of the group and police the emotions/actions of the black men. He might be the minority, but clearly, he's in charge.
    Thus ends my white guilt rant for the week.

  • Weejit

    I agree that Tyrese was beat down, but it wasn't just him that had to be settled. Do you remember that Rick had to be pulled off of Tyrese by Daryl? Rick had lost his mind. And Daryl let Tyrese get physical with him for a moment without retaliating - he held out his had to stop Rick when Rick went to pull Tyrese off of Daryl.

    I'm not defending the writers here - there's a serious wimpy-women and minorities-have-stereotypical-issues problem with the character writing, but aren't those things SO ingrained in society, (especially the deep South), that there'd be some kind of echo of them for a while? They're so ingrained that the writers are echoing it into their writing, even while imagining a world where every able body is necessary and valued because it means that whatever color or gender they are, they could end up saving your life.

  • ZbornakSyndrome

    I see what you mean, but the fact is the writers created a scene where the black man was out of control and needed to be kept in line by the white guys. It's dehumanizing. And I don't think we're supposed to side with Ty, I don't think the show is subtle enough or well written enough to flesh out that idea. I don't think we're asked to consider how problematic it is - I think they just wrote a dramatic scene.

    The sense I got from the scene was that "good ol' Daryl let the crazy black dude blow off some steam before Rick had to intervene". Even if that's not the case, it's clumsily written and in poor taste.

    When Rick lost it after Lori's death, he collapsed into a pile and played ghost phone tag - he didn't need to be beaten down by a bunch of black guys that had his best interest at heart.

  • occupybikeseat

    I think you're reading way too much into this. I saw a guy go ape because someone killed the woman he loved. Color had zero to do with that. Then I saw a guy lose his mind when someone hit him and he returned fire. Color had zero to do with that. I dont see race at all here, I see characters in a show where race doesnt seem to matter much if at all.

  • MGMcD

    "I'm a little uncomfortable with how the white men (Daryl on the away mission, or Rick anywhere else) are in charge constantly and get to determine punishment for everyone that they feel has "betrayed the group". In fact, this show still seems very much themed around "White men berate women and people of color for their shortcomings".

    YES to this. This episode drew into sharp contrast the difference in morality in this universe vs pre-zombie morality, but in both worlds it appears ladies and POCs still need white men to tell them how to go about their lives.

    Between killing Karen and David, and teaching the kids how to use weapons on the sly, Carol had begun to establish a certain pragmatism based on survival. She was a colder, harder version of the nurturer she had been before, but still was all about protecting the people she loved. More mother lioness than mother hen. And in this world of constant death and danger, who can blame her?

    Tyrese exploded with grief and anger at losing someone he loved (and having his sister also in danger), and poor Bob was still struggling with the demons he struggled with before the zombie outbreak, and he ultimately gave into them. Both of these mens' actions, albeit not conducive to group harmony, are completely understandable given the context of the world they're living in, but they were vilified for them, and in all 3 cases, it was the white men who were arbiters of that justice.

    Rick and Daryl (as white men often are ) are ultimately the old guard of a previous way of life. They're trying to establish society as it was before, and punishing those who don't adhere to that ideal, but how can they do that now that they are living in a completely different world?

    Race/gender issues aside, though it was a quieter episode, I thought it was one of the best because it examined the idea of moral relativism. Carol threw that back at Rick when she asked him what he would do if it were Carl or Judith in danger. I wonder if we'll soon see him faced with that situation for real.

  • Here's where I'll disagree: I can make the math in my head and reach the conclusions that Carol did. There's the group and there's threats to the group. You deal with threats to the group and until someone is a member of the group, they don't get the benefits of group membership. It's the same reason why, last year Rick, Michonne and Carl left behind someone screaming and begging for help (twice). Were they any colder then than Carol was to either the out-of-their-gourd kids?

    The reason I disliked Lori and Andrea so much was that the actions of neither were really defensible and not just in individual instances but during the course of their character arcs. Now how much blame falls on the haphazard writing and how much on the general flaws of the characters, I can't tell. But unlike Carol, who actually has had an arc, Lori and Andrea were static and, worse, the bad kind of static.

  • Bert_McGurt

    I think that's the crux of the difference this year - both Michonne and Carol's actions have been relatively logical and defensible. And they get to DO something. Even Beth has been coldly pragmatic for what little we've seen of her this season.

    Bad decisions are one thing - DUMB, bad decisions are quite another.

  • Lindzgrl

    I don't hate Carol. I kind of love where they're going by carving out some of her humanity. It just seems...kind of logical to me, considering all her character has seen and been through. The only thing I found jarring jumping from last season until now what that it seemed like Carl was the one really losing his humanity at the end of last season and that whole dynamic seemed to totally swap with Carol with little explanation for the viewers. I wish they had pursued it more with Carl--really showed how growing up in that world would affect a kid who was just coming of age. So far it seems like all the kids are back to being kinda shell-shocked and disillusioned but still innocent and full of good.

    But, that said, I really hope this isn't the last we see of Carol!

  • paddydog

    Plus, I'll bet Carol makes really good pancakes without lumps.

  • Salasalu

    What show are YOU watching??? Hate Carol? Hate the best written character on the show played by an actor who's killing it?? No, we don't hate Carol. We hate Rick.

  • paddydog

    I don't hate Carol at all. She made a difficult decision but one that was logical in the circumstances. And what evidence do we have that she burned them alive? The charred corpses we saw were pretty much laid out flat which is consistent with being already dead (she has admitted she killed them) and dragged out when burned. A person burned alive would be cowering and twisting and not lying calmly on the ground so the body would be different in shape.
    I still have issues with the way the black male characters are treated. One is a weak-willed alcoholic who puts his needs ahead of the group and the other veers from fear to explosive anger. One awesome Michonne does not make up for this.

  • ZbornakSyndrome

    ^THIS. It's great to develop the black characters - I'm almost satisfied that they're simply surviving the episodes, considering last season. But Jesus, do the white men have to keep "correcting them". They have one that behaves "like an animal" when emotional, and one that's got addiction issues...It's getting egregious.

  • Kristen Mc

    Right? I could have sworn she said she "made it quick" when she killed them. Not sure why we would assume she burned them alive. She is acting out of necessity, not malice.

  • Bert_McGurt

    In fact, I think last night we SAW Rick imagining Carol knifing them FIRST, and then dragging the bodies out to the yard.

  • Guest

    .

  • Juxyn

    Well, when you put it like that I guess I do have to agree.

  • JenVegas

    Wait, we have to hate Carol now? I don't hate Carol. I don't even not like Carol. I hated Lori and Andrea because they were annoying and sometimes stupid. Carol did what she did. She did it because she felt like she had to. You (the viewer) can decide to hate her (as Tyrese and Rick do) because of that. Or, you can say wow, that woman was clearly affected by the events that befell her and changed by them. Last week when Daryl took Tyrese aside and said something like "I feel you, and I want to kill whoever did this too but now is not the time." I only half believed him. I bet if you asked Daryl he would have agreed that someone might think that was the best thing for the community. And I bet HE doesn't hate Carol.

    So no, I don't hate Carol. I think her arc is really actually interesting and probably realistic to the events of a zombie apocalypse. I mean...come on. Don't you think you'd be a little hardened by everything she went through too? As for Michonne taking her place. IDK. I think that's just sometimes what happens. Carol clearly has been going through some psychological stuff, maybe she's pulled away from Daryl and he naturally gravitated towards the one person most like him in the group. Also, I don't usually go in for that Alpha male BS but that was one hot piece of business when he stepped up into Stookey's face last night.

  • inviktus1983 .

    I do not feel that Daryl was being "alpha" when he stepped up to Stookey, rather he felt compelled by a sense of duty to his group to establish in no uncertain terms that there is no room for selfishness in the zombie apocalypse.

  • JenVegas

    Sure, I won't argue that's the message he was going for. But, that stepping right up in your face without words...just that LOOK and making Stookey back down a step? That's Alpha male behavior.

  • Jenn TheYellowDart

    ^ A MILLION TIMES THIS.
    I don't hate Carol. This cold logic is a good progression from her whimpering pre-'pocalypse self. I even agree with her attempt to stem the sickness. She tried something that would potentially benefit the group, and it failed. I admire her willingness to be that ruthless. She was even willing to face Tyrese and take responsibility but Rick robbed her of that.

    If anything, Rick is still the weakest link in the group. He makes unilateral bad decisions. And then judges other people for doing the same thing. His hypocrisy makes me want to vomit in rage.

    And Daryl as alpha male? SPLOOSH.

  • ZbornakSyndrome

    Rick makes decisions without anyone else, that's the problem. He doesn't want to be in charge - until he does. Then he banishes Carol without talking to the group. If he doesn't want a Rick-ocracy, then he needs to stop making major decisions without speaking to anyone.

  • Miss Kate

    Agreed. I also felt while watching this that part of the reason he banished her was not so much what she did, but the fact that she did it without asking him first. During the scene with the 2 in the house, you could see the irritation in Rick's face when she allowed the newcomers to "help" them without deferring to him. And I loved the fact that she called him on his bs.

  • Dirk

    I think Rick's annoyance was due to the fact that he knew Carol was sending the newcomers to their death. They were both too injured and fend off walkers and Carol & Rick knew that. Carol wants to thin out the herd and will eliminate everyone she sees as weak. That's why Rick had to send her away.

  • ZbornakSyndrome

    But it's not Rick's job to send her away. Why do they have a council if Rick's in charge? He's either the governor without the eyepatch - total control without consulting others - or he needs to consult the other people in his group.

    The minute Carol admitted what she did, there should have been a council meeting. Instead, he took her to an isolated area and banished her himself, because deep down, he believes he has that right.

  • Andromeda_Deadface

    Exactly, there is a council for a reason, and Rick isn't even on it. He had no right, by their own rules, to make that decision. His decision making skills are very suspect and hypocritical.
    I read somewhere they've announced a spin off, betcha Carol is in that one leading her own group. I hope so. I like her. I think they changed her to suit dividing her out of the group. Seemed lazy writing to me the way they did it, although it shocked the hell out of me. I thought Rick was deciding whether to tell the council or keep the secret, not do what he did.
    Can't wait for next week to see how he explains no Carol and how will Daryl take it.

  • Dirk

    I was going to to say that if Rick brought Carol back, Tyreese would kill her. But you're right. He could have brought Carol back, inform the council without letting Tyreese know, and let them decide her fate. Good point.

  • Jenn TheYellowDart

    Yuuuup. Thank you for making words and coherent sentences out of my ramblings.

  • JustOP

    I think the situations regarding Rick killing Shane and Carol killing these two are different.

    Shane grew increasingly violent, erratic and murderous (Otis), to the point where he was going to kill Rick. Rick stopped him.

    Carol killed two sick people, who may or may not have survived, because she felt it was the right thing to do. Her actions achieved nothing other than making her a target for other members - the infection continued to spread.

    Thus, it isn't really hypocritical of Rick to send her away. I hate that it happened, and hope it's a temporary leave - maybe she joins another group and we witness that in conjunction with the prison, but Rick sending her away probably saved her life.

  • He didnt save her from tyrese. He told her they all hated her and tyreese would kill her. She said she could handle. To leave her alone, when we know you cant survive alone was a cowardly a$@hole thing to do. She was desperate to try to stop the virus, she said they were drowning in their own blood and she ended it quickly. She did not burn them alive. It wasnt his decision to leave her to die. The watch thing is she saw it bothered him to part with it. She gave her watch to him to let go of the past. Possibly seeing him as an abuser like ed . Dont agree shes cold hearted or pulled away from others. In ep 1 she was playfully teasing daryl to bond with her friend. He basically pulled away from her and became more open, comforting and complimentary to others. He pushed her away. Tyreese asked her to watch over sasha cos he saw how much she cared. Same thing with the girls dad. Love carol, shipped caryl but dont think he cares much about her anymore

  • Pajiba_Pragmatist

    History often judges people by the success of their actions, not the actions themselves. Lucky Gomez is credited with the phrase "I'd rather be lucky than good", but we've all thought it. Carol was unlucky. Had her actions ended the plague, then history suggests people would have forgiven her. To take the bold move and have it fail... well, it's not a surprise that she gets the boot.

  • Three_nineteen

    Carol unilaterally makes a decision to sacrifice two people to try and keep their community safe. Rick thinks Carol is wrong, so he unilaterally decides to sacrifice her (don't for one minute think kicking her out of the group is NOT a death sentence) to try and keep their community safe.

    This better be addressed next week.

  • JustOP

    I don't think this is a death sentence at all - sounds like an exageration to me. Was it a death sentence when Andrea got split up from the group and was left alone?

  • Three_nineteen

    Since this is a TV show and not real, of course Carol isn't going to die because of the banishment. Rick, however, does not know he is on a TV show. As we saw last week, a car is not very useful, and all the supplies he left her could make some unsavory people she may meet kill her for them. Rick is basically leaving her for dead.

  • JustOP

    The two people they meet in the episode claim that they got lost from their group, which I presume is where Carol is going to end up. We meet a number of survivors through the show who have held their own untill now - Carol is being sent away with a large ammount of supplies, a bunch of learned survival skills, and the ability to travel long distances.

    Leaving her for dead would be taking all of the supplies, disabling the vehicle and taking her weapons. Rick equips her with almost everything she needs to survive.

  • Bert_McGurt

    I'm VERY interested to see how Rick explains things to the group when he returns. It's a potential minefield. Does he tell Daryl and Tyrese that Carol confessed? Does he say she got bitten? That he lost her? Or does he tell them that he killed her because of what she did? What if she comes back?

    I agree with you in that I think Rick figured this was the best way to defuse the situation - he can hold Carol accountable for her actions, but she doesn't have to die. At least not by his hand or anyone else at the prison's. But now he's got to face the consequences for the truth (that he let her leave) or lie and wait for the other shoe to drop.

  • Dan Koelsch

    I don't hate Carol. I'm actually sad she's gone.

  • garfieldhatesmondays

    Unless they show her getting eaten in the next episode, I'm sure she will show up again. Look what they did with Morgan, Merle and, I'm assuming, the Governor. She will definitely be back, and probably as an even bigger badass.

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