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Rape and Shades of Gray

By Dr. Pisaster | Posted Under Pajiba Dirty Talk | Comments (102)



Bristol Palin Levi Johnston Tattoo2.jpg

I was all set to write about something fun this week, and then this happened. Bristol Palin, (that’s the eldest, abstinence advocating-but-not-practicing daughter of Sarah Palin if you happen to live in a cave or somewhere not obsessed with American politics) has written a memoir. And of course, the only thing anyone can talk about is her description of how she lost her virginity to her then-boyfriend Levi. According to Bristol’s memoir, she went camping with Levi and friends (without her parent’s permission), consumed too many wine coolers, blacked out and woke up the next morning to be informed that she had “definitely had sex with Levi.”

The response to Bristol’s description of these events in the blogosphere has been..less than ideal. While most blogs I’ve seen have at least recognized these circumstances as a clear date rape, they have also been quick to accuse Bristol of lying to preserve her own “good girl,” image. I’ve seen opinions posted on several sites, including Andrew Sullivan’s Daily Dish (via reader email, but Andrew certainly doesn’t argue) and Dan Savage’s blog, that seem to imply that the fact that Bristol continued to date and was even briefly engaged to Levi and did not choose to abort the child she conceived with him casts suspicion on her current claims. Only Bristol and Levi know exactly what happened in that tent that night, but the automatic and brutal assumption that Bristol must be lying because women don’t continue to date their rapists and have children with them is disturbing. I get that the Palin camp is known for lying, and anything they say is automatically suspicious to some people, but this particular incident is one that could very well not be so black and white as we wish is were, and it would be nice if more of the bloggers commenting on this issue acknowledged that.

In the few excerpts I’ve been able to dig up, Bristol never actually calls Levi a rapist. She does not describe waking up the next morning and realizing she’d been raped. Her own interpretation of the events is that, “all of my plans, my promises, and my moral standards had disappeared in one awful night in a series of bad decisions.” This may be lies, but if so it is a lie that pretty accurately evokes the all too common experience of many women who are raped yet don’t acknowledge the fact, even to themselves. Bristol did not break up with Levi after the incident, and had more (presumably consensual) sex with him, after an initial agreement to not have sex again until they were married, but this doesn’t in any way prove that she wasn’t raped. There is a strong myth in our culture, especially in the more conservative areas, that the only true rapist is the violent one, the stranger who attacks you one night while you’re walking home or breaks into your house and physically overpowers you. The truth is that the majority of rapes are by acquaintances or intimate partners, and while they often involve forms of coercion or substance abuse, they are not generally violent. There is evidence that this myth affects women’s interpretation of their own experiences and obscures the fact that the real world is often much more complex. In a study of 152 college aged women, 23% reported incidents that most outside observers would classify as rape, yet only half of those women answered “yes,” to the question, “Have you ever been raped?” The ones who did not acknowledge their experiences are rape were more likely to describe rape as being committed by a stranger, or as violent and involving struggle. It’s hardly inconceivable that Bristol could have processed her experience of losing her virginity through this particular lens.

There is also a myth that women always know exactly what happened, that they are immediately traumatized and repulsed by their rapists. In truth, women who have been raped by an intimate partner are often shocked and confused. They may feel uncomfortable about the situation, but they frequently turn the blame inward, as in the quote above from Bristol’s memoir. They assume that they are the ones who have done something wrong, that the sex was somehow consensual even though they never consented. It can take years for them to put the label “rape,” on what happened to them, and some never do (and just for the record, I believe everyone has the right to define their own experiences, even if I would disagree with their interpretation). While Sarah Palin has been quoted as referring to the incident between Bristol and Levi as date rape, I have yet to see any instance where Bristol has done so. I’ve never been particularly fond of the term “gray rape,” but the truth is that for many women the situation is not always easily defined. They may not have a clear memory of events, they may be in love with their rapist and unwilling to believe him capable of such a thing, they may have believed that once things got started they had no choice but to continue (as in this rather heartbreaking example). The situation Bristol describes sounds like rape to many outside observers, but that doesn’t mean that she sees it that way or that in her mind she is accusing Levi of raping her, as so many bloggers are claiming.

Every woman reacts differently to rape. There is no right way to respond to such a personal violation, and casting doubt on women’s claims of rape because they didn’t immediately accuse their rapist and run to the police, or even end their relationship with their rapist does a huge disservice to the many women whose experiences don’t fit the social “script,” of rape. I appreciate that so many people are willing to call a spade a spade and see the incident as described by Bristol as rape, but the assumption that the claim is false because of how her relationship with Levi progressed after that night is appalling. It’s entirely possible that Bristol is lying, but it’s also possible that she is among the many young women who are unacknowledged rape victims, and the message I wish we were sending those victims is not, “What happened to you was wrong, but if you continued to have a relationship with your victim we won’t believe you/you deserved it,” but, “What happened to you was wrong, period, and you have the right to deal with it in your own way.” Doubt her story if you wish, but not for that reason.

Dr. Pisaster has a doctorate in biophysics, not actually anything sexy. She does however enjoy having sex, reading about sex, and talking about sex. Especially when she’s had a little whiskey.










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Comments

#inB4totalshitstorm

Posted by: Anna von Beav at June 22, 2011 12:34 PM

Only Bristol and Levi know exactly what happened in that tent that night

If she's telling the truth about blacking out then I'd say she doesn't know exactly what happened, and it's entirely possible that he doesn't either (assuming he was drunk too, which these kinds of stories never seem to make clear).

Posted by: Todd at June 22, 2011 12:40 PM

Moar Science Plz.

Posted by: The_wakeful at June 22, 2011 12:50 PM

*walks in, takes a look around and notices the headline*


*turns around slowly and quietly and walks out the door*

Posted by: Pookie at June 22, 2011 12:59 PM

Sigh...

I spent the last ten minutes trying to type up my thoughts on this issue, but ultimately could come up with only the following:

1. I'm with you, Dr. Pisaster, on your general points outlined above.

2. We will never know, nor SHOULD we ever know, what really happened between Bristol and Levi. It's not the public's business.

3. Rape victims or victims of something that even feels like rape should absolutely have the right to get whatever help they need, especially justice. Rape victims should never have to live in fear and silence for what they've experienced. Rape is inexcusable.

4. False rape accusations can be just as appalling as rape itself, as the "rapist" tag can stick to a person forever and thoroughly ruin someone's life without hope of redemption. It's sickening that there are forces in our culture that might drive a person to ruin someone else's life in order to try and save face for embarrassment or losing one's chastity or "good" image, when the accuser knows they were not raped. When such accusations are exposed as false, they delegitimize the claims of real victims.

5. I have no idea how to reconcile 3 and 4,especially in light of #2. I don't think we will ever have the capability of what truly happened or the contents of people's hearts.

6. I am probably an asshole for saying a lot of what I've said above. But I had to say it.

Posted by: StoatCat at June 22, 2011 12:59 PM

"Storm a-comin'"
"mm-hmm."
"Best get the livestock in."
"More'n likely."

Posted by: A Rancher at June 22, 2011 1:00 PM

*hands Beav an umbrella*

So, how you been?

Posted by: Kballs at June 22, 2011 1:00 PM

*Off to the bar for drinks*

Posted by: Melody at June 22, 2011 1:03 PM

In my experience, alcohol is very often a frequent excuse for shameful behavior. People wake up, they remember what they've done the night before, and they find that they're not the carefree, impulsive stranger they were while inebriated. It's hard to think that you're capable of getting into a bar brawl. Or falling asleep with your pants down on the subway. Throwing up on the sorority house sofa. Peeing on your best-friends TV. That behavior makes people feel ashamed of themselves. It's easier just to wake up, shake the unpleasant memories from your head and yawn, "Gee, I don't remember anything from last night."

But here's the thing; none of that means it wasn't rape. Though her comments somewhat sting of a lie (and maybe that is just my general bias against the Palins), the lie isn't necessarily her version of the events. The lie may be not remembering. She woke up, she was ashamed (not exactly uncommon for rape victims) and rather than face the facts about what happened to her, it was easier to just say, "I don't remember."

I think the likely scenario was that she got drunk, probably in an enviroment she felt safe in, and her boyfriend coherced her into sex. She didn't exactly say no, but didn't really want it either. And in the morning the alcohol was a convenient excuse for avoiding the shame she felt.

Posted by: superasente at June 22, 2011 1:05 PM

I may be about to insert my foot in my mouth. If so, apologies.

Rape is as much a mental/emotional crime as it is a physical one. After all, it's about the imposing of unwanted force upon another being. That's why, while the classic image of a rapist is the the hooded stranger in a dark alley, we know it can happen in offices and in homes all over the world. A boss doesn't have to physically force his female staffer down -- he can threaten her position in order to get his way.

So it's all down to how the victim perceives the execution of force upon her (or him).

That's all a long way of saying that maybe Bristol doesn't feel it was rape (even though the story she tells reeks of the classic fratboy rape tale). She may feel that neither one of them was doing anything that the other couldn't object and turn down.

It would be weird for her to tell this tale to her parents and somehow have the parents pressuring her to marry him while parading the two of them in front of God and country ahead of a national election.

Posted by: Fredo at June 22, 2011 1:06 PM

"C'mon, badgers. HeeYAH! YAH! Don't want y'all out in th' open when people start headbuttin' varmints 'stead of respondin' with reasoned arguments. YAH!"

Posted by: A Rancher at June 22, 2011 1:10 PM

I may be mistaken, but in the memoir doesn't Bristol mention that she finds out they had sex because Levi is bragging to his bros outside the tent? I'll certainly never know what happened there, but Levi's actions since have lead me to believe he's more than capable of this level of assholery. Between the drunk driving post and this Pajiba has been quite the minefield recently.

Posted by: Mrcreosote at June 22, 2011 1:23 PM

I...

Never mind. I'm not touching this post. At all.

Posted by: DeistBrawler at June 22, 2011 1:33 PM

That's what she said.

Posted by: Ian at June 22, 2011 1:36 PM

Anyone taking bets on Levi Johnston suing for libel?

If he doesn't, there will be a prevailing presumption that he's a rapist (which would be quite accurate if Bristol's story is true, but those Palins couldn't lie straight in bed).

Posted by: Xiufetish at June 22, 2011 1:39 PM

This topic reminded me of something, and I'm going to try to say this carefully here since it is a sensitive subject. My late wife had a similar story to this about losing her virginity at age 16 to her then 26 year old boyfriend. The guy got her drunk/stoned and she must have passed out. When she woke up, she knew that she had had sex. Telling me this story, my wife clearly recalled it with sadness. I don't think she thought of herself as being raped per se...she kept on dating the guy and presumably sleeping with him afterwards. But I think she was upset both because of being taken advantage of but possibly moreso because that was her first time. I felt bad for her and the guy was a creep to begin with (26 year old preying on a 16 year old) but moreso if he intentionally got her drunk to do this to her.

OK, the weird part is that when I was in college, I had a female friend take advantage of me while I was drunk. She made no secret of having a big crush on me but I was not at all attracted to her. So I got drunk at a party and passed out in her dorm and something happened (exactly what, she wouldn't let on). Now this woman is still a friend of mine (I'm much, much older now) and this stuff is all in the past. A few years ago, I recollected this event and it hit me that I wasn't bothered by it at all. My attitude at the time was as long as I don't remember anything and don't come down with any diseases, I hope she had fun. I'm far from promiscuous in any way but for whatever reason, not remembering anything means that for me, it wasn't a big deal. Yet if I hear about this happening to a woman, I am horrified on her behalf. So there's a double-standard I hold on this and I'm not comfortable with that. Normally, I'm all in favor of situations being treated equivalently regardless of gender. Maybe it just comes down to the crime on an emotional level. I know that the typical woman would be horrified by this which is what makes it so wrong. Yet for me, I'm not bothered so it's ok? It's confusing but I thought I'd (over)share.

Posted by: Vinsmell at June 22, 2011 1:41 PM

The "blacked out after drinking too many wine coolers" part does not pass the smell test - how many wine coolers would someone, even a young inexperienced drinker, need to consume to reach that point? I'd say she's lying about not remembering anything. Aside from that, who knows?

*throws random piece of poo in the air*

Posted by: Greedy at June 22, 2011 1:41 PM

"It would be weird for her to tell this tale to her parents and somehow have the parents pressuring her to marry him while parading the two of them in front of God and country ahead of a national election."

It would be weird, but I don't find it entirely implausible. That has nothing to do with it involving the Palins. It has to do with a certain type of conservative.

On a personal note, when I was 16 I had a college aged boyfriend. We had had consensual sex but he ended up coercing me into a particular act. I did agree to it with certain conditions that he said he would abide by but didn't. Not only did I stay with him for several years after that, he ended up pulling the same crap on me a couple of more times. It took years for me after the breakup to think about those incidents in terms of rape. So, I understand how Bristol possibly feels about the whole thing and I feel for her.

Posted by: elsie at June 22, 2011 1:45 PM

aaaannnnddd.... Ian wins!

Posted by: Greedy at June 22, 2011 1:45 PM

That was a great article, SPiz. I agree with everything you wrote above.

I have to confess, though, that I doubt her story. I don't believe it's a lie because of how she describes her experience (ie: I agree with the article and its conclusion), and yes, if it did happen that way it probably was rape and she didn't see it that way. No, I believe it's a lie because of who she is--or rather, because of who her family is, and the things they've done in the past.

The Palins must hate Levi. And with good reason, because his behavior in this whole thing has been appalling. And pegging someone as a maybe-rapist is a terrible thing to do to a person, and a lot of people must be bristling with anger towards Levi Johnson after they read that. It makes him look like a monster. So they've taken that enemy down.

Secondly, Bristol, whether she wanted to or not, has been used by her mother and raised up to be this paragon of Good Girlness. Talking about abstinence and keeping your child, etc. Even going so far as pretending that she was going to marry her baby's father despite all the horrible things he had done. And a lot of the criticism for the Palins has been directed at the hypocrisy of an unwed teenage mother preaching about abstinence to make her mother look good. So, what better way to reinforce the Good Girl idea than by going back and telling the 'true' story of her fall and saying that she wasn't herself when it happened? Good girls would NEVER do that. It was the boys who got her drunk, and on a trip when she didn't have permission from her parents! Basically, it wasn't her fault that she made her parents look bad.

Does that make sense? The whole thing just makes me feel dirty, because her whole family makes me feel dirty. It's a terribly cynical view, I know, but I expect nothing but terrible things from politicians and their families these days. Specially that family.

So. It could all be true, or it might not. I feel awful for her either way, because she just seems like a scared girl thrust into the spotlight by her mother and the media. So she either had a horrible experience or was forced to lie about it to make her family look good. Either way no one should be forced to talk about their experience for someone's benefit. I don't think she wrote any of that book herself, and I very much doubt that her mother's team didn't scrutinize every single sentence of it, and possibly wrote some of it themselves.

Either way the whole thing is just disturbing. And that comment was way too long.

Posted by: Figgy at June 22, 2011 1:50 PM

And as someone mentioned above, if it is true (and there's no way for anyone to know) and she was forced to still be with him and hell, later almost made to marry him...then her family and this whole story is more horrible than I could ever imagine. Brr.

Posted by: Figgy at June 22, 2011 1:52 PM

Dr. Pisaster, in so many words, you have expressed my exact thoughts upon hearing this story on the news. I feel for her; a couple of my friends have experienced the same situation and no two people have the same response to it. One of them continued to date her rapist for a few months.

As for the family's reaction, it is entirely possible that Bristol told her parents about the circumstances of her and Levi's sexual encounter some time after the news of her pregnancy. Frequently women take some time to admit to family and friends that a particular sexual encounter was indeed rape and not consensual sex. Even if she did not acknowledge it as rape, which she clearly has not, she may felt some uncertainty about it and held back the entire story until much later. I haven't done any research at all on this (lunch break is running out), but it seems a sensible assumption.

Regarding wine coolers, Bristol is a small person and it doesn't take much alcohol to get an inexperienced, small-statured person blackout drunk. Those damn wine coolers sneak up on you.

All that said, most of me believes her story. Johnston is a shitbag and it's not a stretch to think that he would commit date rape. Just because we don't particularly like the Palins doesn't mean that Johnston is any less of a bag of shit.

Posted by: stardust at June 22, 2011 2:00 PM

Sigh. I hate this, but I have known a woman who would regularly drink to excess and then engage in casual sexual encounters. One time, she did so with my brother and another female friend. When she got up the next day, embarrassed and awkward about the threesome, she spoke to someone unrelated to the incident who convinced her that if she was feeling any kind of remorse, it meant she didn't want to do it at all, and that therefore she had been coerced and that THAT meant she was raped. And then many of us got to spend months trying to lift the rapist label that landed on my brother. She didn't have to involve the police for there to be serious consequences in his life... and for what? He was a 22 year old male having a drunken threesome with two hot (consenting) female friends.

I just wonder why we should hear I got drunk and don't exactly recall what decisions I did or did not make as I was raped.

Posted by: Been Quee at June 22, 2011 2:00 PM

Yeah, you know what, her last name is Palin, she's pimping a book, I don't believe anything she says/writes.The fact that she has a vagina is irrelevant.

If she hadn't paraded him around as her fiance and used every single opportunity to use their relationship for the benefit of her mother's career as a professional attention whore, I'd be more inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt. I'm guessing the people who coerced her more than anyone are her mother and her mother's brand consultants. But she's just smart enough to know exactly who to throw under the bus. Not mommy, of course, but the dumb hick who knocked her up. I actually feel more sorry for HIM now. She gets to call him a rapist (with no proof) and I'm sure the idiots who worship Palin will not even question it.

And what a great thing to make public for their kid. He/she (I don't know which one it is) will really appreciate reading in the future about how daddy raped mommy, but it's ok, because mommy got a really moving anecdote for her memoir out of it.

So I'm gonna pass on using Bristol Palin as a cautionary tale or whatever she's supposed to be here.

Posted by: Slash at June 22, 2011 2:03 PM

Dear Future Levis,

If she is so drunk she blacks out then she is too drunk to consent to sex. If she is so drunk she is slurring her words or can't walk then she is too drunk to consent to sex.

Love,
Mom

Posted by: Jules at June 22, 2011 2:07 PM

Either situation (her blacking out or lying about it to keep her "good girl" cred) is just kind of sad. But the "I was on birth control for cramps" part of the story is great.

Posted by: Three-nineteen at June 22, 2011 2:08 PM

Slash and Been Quee, thank you. Fantastic comments.

Posted by: Jim at June 22, 2011 2:10 PM

I have no idea if Bristol Palin's story is true. But it could be. Because change the wine coolers to cheap Chardonnay, and the age to seventeen and it was my story too. Camping trip and everything. Was it rape? Not to me, maybe because he cried when he filled in the details for me that I couldn't (or wouldn't) remember. Or that he was so sorry and he swore I'd wanted to do it. I was a virgin from a strong wait-until-marriage family. I couldn't deal with my own "failure" so I decided to screw it. Literally. I got on the pill, got a bunch of free condoms from the school clinic and spent the next year with him pretending I was okay with abandoning my beliefs. The irony is that Christianity is supposed to be about grace and not being afraid to fail (cause we all have already). But it took me years to be at peace again after that evening.

My best girlfriend, on the other hand was drugged by her bofriend's SISTER and then her boyfriend raped her. She was 19 and a virgin. His answer, when she woke up covered in her own blood? "you wanted me too." And she believed him, for 6 months after they dated, and had sex, because that was easier than dealing with the fact that the man that she loved had raped her. She had a nervous breakdown at the end of that 6 months and confronted him. He screamed, "Yeah, okay, I raped you, is that what you want to hear! I fucking raped you and I'm not sorry!"
That was enough for her to leave. After many years of counseling, she is now happily married to a great man. But she still has never gone to the police. Because who would believe that a girl could ever stay with a man who did that to her?

Posted by: Jenn at June 22, 2011 2:32 PM

Going to the bigger picture here, beyond the Palinness, thanks Dr. P, for addressing this in a even-keeled, nuanced way. This is a difficult topic, for a lot of reasons, and it's great when it can be raised and discussed in a non-ugly, non-heated fashion.

Also, COMMAS.

Posted by: Katers at June 22, 2011 2:38 PM

Bristol and Levi are a living, breathing Jerry Springer Show. In fact, Bristol should've been named Bristle, 'cause she's always bristlin' about something. (Sarah would likely pronounce both names the same anyway.)

Although most of my college experience was one big, fumey, alcohol haze, I do recall friends telling me about things I did when I blacked out. There's a difference between blacking out and passing out. "Blacking out" is like your body going on auto-pilot; you are still functioning as if you are conscious, but have no memory of it the next day. "Passing out," on the other hand, is when both your mind and body call it a night, and you crumple in a heap somewhere or fall fast asleep (for instance, in the Ladies bathroom, on the toilet, like I once did at a bar).

None of this is to defend Levi (if he did rape her) nor any other date rapists, but just because Bristle doesn't remember their night o' hot monkey love doesn't mean she didn't consent.

Posted by: Stinky at June 22, 2011 2:40 PM

I'm 100% on board with what Figgy said. When I first read her account, my initial thought was "that sleazebag took advantage of her" and defined it in my head as date rape. She goes on to talk about how they discussed it the next day, made an agreement to abstain until marriage from that point forward, and quickly went back on the agreement. That cast a little doubt in my head, but I still believed at the very least he took advantage of her inebriated state.

But then I started thinking about the PR machine that is the Palin family. And I hate to say it, but that made me doubt her. If it were any other girl/woman describing the exact same situation, even with the day after discussion, I'd probably jump immediately to calling it date rape. But knowing S. Palin's disingenuous blaring about abstinence, it HAS to cast some shadows on the memoir. S. Palin has shown that she is above NOTHING when it comes to her public profile, including using her poor children as props in failing campaigns. It's absolutely no stretch of the imagination to believe that she could have coerced Bristol into describing the loss of her virginity as something akin to date rape, simply to maintain her stance of pro-abstinence.

The one good thing that I can see coming out of a situation like this is the fact that it opens up avenues of discussion. Our society as a whole needs to do a better job of encouraging women to talk about their experiences with a loved one or professional, and not feel the need to carry such a heavy burden alone because of shame. We need to love and support our women better.

Posted by: JustBill at June 22, 2011 2:42 PM

I don't know, man. Sarah Palin may be a self-serving, vapid Republican who cares more about her self image than actually governing, but I can't imagine she'd twist her daughter's life-story to imply that she's raped. Maybe if the story were less believable -- like if she were raped by dinosaur ninjas or something -- maybe I'd start to question it. But the story Bristol told isn't just common, some variation on that story is exceedingly common.

Sarah Palin may be a moron and a liar, but she's still a mother. I just don't think she's so evil that she would construct a lie using her daughter's virginity just to slander the ex-boyfriend. That's...too vile to contemplate.

Posted by: superasente at June 22, 2011 2:56 PM

None of this is to defend Levi (if he did rape her) nor any other date rapists, but just because Bristle doesn't remember their night o' hot monkey love doesn't mean she didn't consent.

If she was so drunk she blacked out then she was too drunk to consent.

Posted by: Jules at June 22, 2011 2:59 PM

In any case, the fact that this might be true, and we're doubting it because of her family -- that's exceptionally tragic.

Posted by: superasente at June 22, 2011 2:59 PM

See, I don't think it's so much Sarah Palin herself, but her team of advisers. Those people (in general, not just Palin's) can be nasty and stop at nothing to get their way. And I think Palin at this point is so desperate to stay in the limelight that she'd even let her team convince her to get her daughter to say whatever they wanted her to.

I'm not convinced that this is the case. Like I said before, her story could be true, in which case it makes her life even sadder to me. I just wouldn't put it past Palin's team of PR monsters to do this.

Posted by: Figgy at June 22, 2011 3:04 PM

I am probably an asshole for saying a lot of what I've said above. But I had to say it.

Posted by: StoatCat at June 22, 2011 12:59 PM
------------------------------------------------
No, not at all! Those are all very valid points, and nothing you said, or the way you said it, makes you an asshole. I'm actually impressed on the whole with how level-headed and thoughtful the comments have been.

And now that I've cursed the whole thing by saying that, I'm going to get out of here before the shitstorm begins.

Posted by: Lauren at June 22, 2011 3:11 PM

To all the "could be true" people:

It's nice that the rest of us (who haven't been accused of rape) can sit around and speculate dispassionately (for the most part) about it. But this Levi kid doesn't get that luxury.

He is now labeled a rapist, and because someone with a vagina (and many reasons to lie about it) said it, we all (esp. the ones who also have a vagina) have to concede that it MIGHT be true, or we're blaming ALL rape victims for what happened.

No. I won't concede it. If she claimed it was an immaculate conception, her story would sound more believable.

The Palin family is more despicable for disseminating this story than for anything else they've done. It's one thing to go on some bogus tour of America to squeeze more money out of the idiots who idolize you, it's another to suggest a rape happened just for PR value. And it's a monumental insult to actual victims of rape.

Posted by: Slash at June 22, 2011 3:17 PM

I'm afraid I have to back up Figgy on this one. If the young woman was raped, my heart goes out to her. Considering the level of dishonesty that seems to be a form of clothing around this family, I'm more inclined to think this story is at least partially fabricated.

Posted by: bignick at June 22, 2011 3:22 PM

I can't believe all of you people lining up to make excuses for this lying piece of trash. The Palin's have made it a habit of trying to change history whenever they find it to be inconvenient to their purposes and because everyone's memory is so fucking short and people are so dumb they fall for it.

Posted by: Salad_Is_Murder at June 22, 2011 3:23 PM

Slash, your constant use of "who has a vagina" and all its iterations is gross and unbecoming of the reasoned discussion we're having here. The possession of a particular set of genitals doesn't render the opinions of that set of society invalid; on the contrary, when it comes to this topic I'd wager it makes their opinions MORE valid.

Your vehemence is baffling. Were you once falsely accused of something?

Posted by: JustBill at June 22, 2011 3:32 PM

For those who say, "if you're too drunk to remember, you're too drunk to consent", how is one supposed to tell? Is there some sort of universal indicator of whether another person is blackout drunk? The capacity for alchohol-based amnesia appears to be a genetic thing; two people can be similarly drunk, and one will remember and the other won't.

Was he drunk? How drunk does he have to be before it was actually she that raped him? Did they rape each other?

Do you excuse a rapist because the rapist was drunk? I don't. If you choose to drink, the things you do while drunk are your responsibility. You can't send someone else to prison, you can't blame them, for the acts you are responsible for. If you aren't responsible for them, then neither is a drunk rapist.

What's it gonna be?

Posted by: Jessmaster at June 22, 2011 3:38 PM

I just wouldn't put it past Palin's team of PR monsters to do this.

Figgy, I've got to agree. I keep wanting to give Palin credit for things, but I forget she's under the direction of people who are more intelligent and coniving. At the very least, a conversation took place in which someone discussed how this could be beneficial for her. How it could gain her sympathy. I have to remind myself that these are the same people who built their own version of Wikipedia so they could support her claim that Paul Revere was coming to warn the British. I suppose the belief that lying about rape could be beneath them is my own naivete.

Still, this is all so tragic if her story is true. I can't help but feel very sad for Bristol, one way or the other.

Posted by: superasente at June 22, 2011 3:38 PM

Why is it always "the person who was too drunk to give proper consent and her rapist" and never "the person who was too drunk to give proper consent and the other person who was ALSO drunk and possibly not a good judge of impairment"?

Posted by: Craig at June 22, 2011 3:44 PM

STRONG column. Agree with it 100 percent. Thanks, Dr. Pisaster.

I got into a pseudo-argument with my boss yesterday covering most of these same points. I don't know whom to believe or what happened. At this point I just feel bad for their child who will have to deal with all this eventually.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at June 22, 2011 4:01 PM

Do you have a source on that Sarah Palin quote explicitly calling it "date rape"? My Googling is not finding it...

Posted by: DarthCorleone at June 22, 2011 4:03 PM

The third rail of Pajiban debates, along with abortion and religion. Pookie did well to opt out.

I agree with Dr.P on the fact that her story cannot be dismissed by jackasses who think that because she stayed with him, and continued to have sex with him, it was not rape, and she must be lying in some capacity. Such people anger me. Nor should her claim be dismissed because of her famewhorishness. Bristol's is an all too common circumstance, and many times an actual rape occured.

I'm sure this will be a fairly unpopular opinion, but her story does not necessarily make Levi a rapist, even though she may feel like a victim.

I've never understood why inebriation is not a valid excuse for bad decisions and behavior in any case... Except when it comes to sex. And it seemingly works only one way. A man and a woman meet in a bar. They both get very drunk, stumble to his/her place, and have drunken sex. Both were into it. They wake up with vague, hazy memories of the night, and maybe the woman feels violated because she was a virgin, waiting for marriage. The man feels awesome because he got laid.

Is this rape? Based on the comments, I'd say that many of you would say yes- she was clearly too inebriated to consent, given the fact that her memories of the events of the night were vague. And perhaps that's true.

But in this situation, and the millions of situations like it that happen every year, there are too many "ifs" to call the act a rape and the man a rapist, without more detail. If she was so drunk that she was not an active participant- rape. If she said NO or implied NO through body language- rape. If she was really drunk, and he was stone sober- maybe, but definitely rape-y. If they were both active and enjoying, but really really drunk- sorry, not rape, regardless of how she feels about it after.

The fact of the matter is that we do not nor will not have any idea of what happened that night between Levi and Bristol. Hell, they both might not, either. Assuming she's telling the truth, she is certainly a victim of sexual contact that she didn't want while sober. Was it a criminal rape? I reserve judgement.

Posted by: logar at June 22, 2011 4:04 PM

I have a vagina myself, JustBill, if that makes you feel better about my use of the awful, awful word "vagina."

I can use it or any other word I want, any way I want. You don't have to like it, but there's nothing you can do about it.

Posted by: Slash at June 22, 2011 4:16 PM

It's very possible that neither one of the teenage idiots in this tawdry drama remembers that night clearly. The difference is, only one of them is accusing the other one of rape, rather long after the fact, with no proof whatsoever, in the service of selling a book. If Bristol Palin isn't on some talk show within a week from now, doing a tearful interview about how Levi date raped her, I'll be really surprised.

Posted by: Slash at June 22, 2011 4:22 PM

Don't act like I was grossed out by the word vagina. That's juvenile and a deliberate misinterpretation of what I said. What I was grossed out by was the implication inherent in the phrasing. I can admit, however, that I was wrong in assuming you were a male. The phrasing alone is what led me to that belief.

And you're right: it's your ball, you can play with it however you like, and there's nothing I can do about it. So sorry to infringe on your rights.

Posted by: JustBill at June 22, 2011 4:32 PM

Excellent points Jessmaster, Craig and logar.

I think the real lesson here is don't drink and date. It's just as dangerous as drinking and driving. Not that anyone under 25 is going to mull this one over for more than a minute.

Posted by: Stinky at June 22, 2011 4:55 PM

Kudos to Figgy--when I read the excerpt, I had similar thoughts about this story (but Figgy put it better). I would have called it date rape, except for the Palin thing. I don't think Palin is above using her kids to polish her image (in preparation for her pseudo-run for the presidency), I mean she used Bristol's pregnancy for her VP run, so why not? Date rape (i.e. forced sex) takes the onus off Bristol (she's still a "good girl" despite being an unwed teen mom). The same logic which says rape victims "deserve" to get legal abortion, while the pregnancy due to broken condom doesn't.

Posted by: True_Blue at June 22, 2011 4:57 PM

Darth, I read the quote in an email on Sully's blog, and I just rechecked it. It would appear that it was a hypothetical situation the reader made up, not an actual quote. My apologies for spreading it as truth, I should've read more carefully the first time around. As far as I can tell none of the Palin's have yet publically referred to this as rape.

Posted by: dr. pisaster at June 22, 2011 5:04 PM

Jessmaster said exactly what I was thinking. Well done.

Posted by: TWoPFan at June 22, 2011 5:12 PM

Jenn, your story was poignant, beautiful and a bit scary. Thank you.

Posted by: Stinky at June 22, 2011 5:13 PM

Pleasantly surprised that many here are at least open to the possibility that someone in the Hated Other Tribe could be human.

Posted by: John at June 22, 2011 5:13 PM

Sorry, this is all nonsense. I don't believe it for a second, and I'm a feminist. The Palins HATE this guy. What better way to disgrace him than to put an episode like this in Bristol's memoir?

"But the story Bristol told isn't just common, some variation on that story is exceedingly common.

Sarah Palin may be a moron and a liar, but she's still a mother. I just don't think she's so evil that she would construct a lie using her daughter's virginity just to slander the ex-boyfriend. That's...too vile to contemplate."

Are you serious? She's using this not only to slander the ex but also to recast her daughter as a good girl. Please.

And a big fat WORD to the poster who said it is terrible judgment to put this out there for their child to read.

Posted by: samantha t at June 22, 2011 5:20 PM

I think she's full of shit. She drank too much and had sex with her boyfriend, just because she came to regret it later does not make it rape. Everything about her story, from the birth control "for cramps" to the wine coolers instead of beer or liquor to the blacking out, is designed to paint her in an innocent light and paint Levi as the horny asshole who took advantage of the saintly virgin. The fact that she and her family would release this story, which basically an accusation of rape with a wink, is disgusting yet not out of character in the least.

Posted by: LaRhue at June 22, 2011 5:25 PM

she's a pretty gross person.

Posted by: gp at June 22, 2011 5:59 PM

Thanks for writing about something that is a very real situation for many women in this country. Very few people write about "gray rape", so many women have experienced instances of rape not from a complete stranger, but someone who they are either intimate with or know to a certain extent. We will never know what happened to Bristol and Levi that night, nor should we ever, as someone stated above, it's not the public's business. However, it is for Bristol to realize that it's not all her fault either, sure we make bad/poor decisions as teens, but if she was not drunk she probably would have said no outright (if she is so "moral" as she claims and abstains), and no MEANS no. Teens will put themselves in these situations of course and it is totally normal. Sarah Palin uses her daughter to drive her own point home too, that see her daughter was more or less raped but still kept the baby. I think it was a tough choice all around and I feel a bit bad for Bristol for going along with it, wondering if she even thought she had a choice in the matter. You ALWAYS have choices. But it's you who needs to take responsibility for those consequences if you make those choices of course.

Posted by: Gigi at June 22, 2011 6:22 PM

OK, let me see if I can organize this properly:
I despise the Palin parents, and have always felt a little sorry for the kids they raised.

I also have serious doubts that you can convince me this was ANY kind of rape. So far there is no claim she was either passed out or blacked out (which means no later clear memory, but not that she was more obviously drunk than usual). There is no indication he was any closer to sober than she was, and no reason to think he deliberately got her drunk.

As long as both people are in the same state and NOT doing something they otherwise wouldn't, it isn't rape. And yes, I have known plenty of women/girls who admit they would get drunk/buzzed to relax their inhibitions and have the fun they wanted. (like guys, huh?)

I have had lots of sex with a blacked-out partner (my wife), and only found out later. I did notice she was more adventurous when drunk/high, but she always has been, and we never did anything drunk she didn't (at least occasionally) do sober. When I realized HOW damn drunk she was getting I finally got her to seriously cut back by threatening to make her famous on amateur porn sites.

Whatever, this isn't about me. It's about the point I wanted to make at the beginning: no matter how much I despise her Mom and Dad, I seriously despise the asshole attitudes of those of you that all but state you can't believe the story because it comes from a Palin.
Just because her Mom is an opportunistic right wing asshat who is evidently raising her her kids to be the same is no reason to call bullshit on the story told by Bristol. If you would normally both believe this and call it rape, you owe it to yourselves to backup the girl this time.

Just remember that most of the assumptions you toss around like proven facts aren't in the source material, they are shit YOU assume, then we all have to treat as serious.

Posted by: Walter at June 22, 2011 6:31 PM

@Posted by: LaRhue at June 22, 2011 5:25 PM

The way you put quotes around the reason the kid was on birth control seems to mean "yeah, sure".

My wife tells me she knows several women this was true for. Also, when I was 18 I had a 15 year old girl friend who was put on birth control because she had abnormally long, heavy periods.

No, we didn't have sex. I was holding off till she said she was ready. Funny, she was ready with the guy before me, and she was ready when she cheated on me to get a date to the prom, but I figure that's just the kind of shit immature kids do. Plus, INSTANT KARMA: once he got what he wanted, the other guy dumped her & took someone else. Even as a cuckolded 18 yr. old I felt worse for her than for me, and no, it didn't make me feel any better. Maybe she learned something from it. I'd hate to think that her pain and embarrassment was wasted.

On the other hand, in case she reads this: HI Starla. OK, I'm a little bitter. I'm a nice guy, then I feel bad about it.

Posted by: Walter at June 22, 2011 6:43 PM

I was very late in losing my virginity (20) mainly because I never got into a situation like this. Even as a silly teenager, I knew that spending the weekend drinking with my boyfriend would probably result in something I wasn't ready for. At the risk of being verbally abused by the posters here for even insinuating that 'she had it coming to her', Bristol had to have had some idea she was placing herself in a situation for sexual intimacy with her boyfriend.

I think it's really shitty that Levi has now and will forever be tarred with this if it's not true, and I pity the poor child of these two fools.

Posted by: snapnhiss at June 22, 2011 6:47 PM

Let's remember the interview that the sperm donor did last year where he said all kinds of unpleasant things (also unprovable, I guess, but none that I recall reach the level of a date rape accusation) about the Palin family.

I guess they decided the gloves are off now. And because all of the Palins (all the adult ones, anyway) have demonstrated over and over that they do very little but lie and love being in the spotlight more than life itself, I'm very comfortable with assuming that this latest nugget from Bristol Palin is more of the same. If you're not, that's fine. I'm sure there are lots of other extremely gullible people who will believe this latest story.

All of these people (the Palins and the sperm donor) are repellent. I wish they would all fade into obscurity, where they belong.

Posted by: Slash at June 22, 2011 6:49 PM

Thanks, Stinky!

I would not be a teenager again for all the money in the world :)

Posted by: Jenn at June 22, 2011 7:15 PM

"I also have serious doubts that you can convince me this was ANY kind of rape. So far there is no claim she was either passed out or blacked out (which means no later clear memory, but not that she was more obviously drunk than usual). There is no indication he was any closer to sober than she was, and no reason to think he deliberately got her drunk. ...Just remember that most of the assumptions you toss around like proven facts aren't in the source material..."

Walter >> But those things you are saying are in fact in the source material. She claims in the book that she was blacked out drunk. She claims she had no memory of it. She claims that he was the one handing her wine cooler after wine cooler. Evaluate the truth of her words or the presence of rape therein however you like, but people are responding to her published description of the event. I'm not sure why you're claiming otherwise.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at June 22, 2011 7:17 PM

I get that this family seems like they have such a history of "spinning" (poorly) every detail that it's hard to take anything that they say seriously.

But, yeah, this kind of thing has happened to many girls/women that I know and that fact makes it impossible for me to simply dismiss. Just because someone's mom is a scheming liar with an agenda, it doesn't mean that person wasn't raped.

And, I see the point about the guy not being in control enough to be able to judge consent... but I don't hear a lot of conversation about what parents of teen boys are telling their sons about this.

We seem to expect the responsiblity for not getting raped to lie fully on the female's shoulders. "What were you wearing?" "Why were you drinking?" "Well, you were ALONE with him and you KNEW there would be alcohol..."

Come on.

Instead of reframing whether we call it rape when the boy has been drinking too, how about we educate our sons to keep it in their pants if there's ANY POSSIBILITY that the girl isn't in a condition to give consent?

Acting like this is too much to ask shows really low expectations of young men, don't you think?

Posted by: SeaKat at June 22, 2011 7:29 PM

My only comment from what little I know:

How is it that Levi is expected to be in control of and responsible for his actions while drunk but Bristol is not?

Who's to say if they both weren't black out drunk and she climbed on top of him in her stupor? Why is it that it's assumed that he was aware enough to be the one who should be responsible? Why is it that being female relinquishes her from any responsibility?

Posted by: Protoguy at June 22, 2011 7:44 PM

I would also add that Bristol is making millions on the 'abstinence' speech tour. She does have plenty of motivation for painting the incident in a way that relieves her of all responsibility.

I also agree that if Momma Grizzly thought her daughter had been raped she would have had him strung up. Then there's the rumor that Trig is really Bristol's and not the son of a 46 year old woman who's likely too old to have any viable eggs left.

Posted by: Protoguy at June 22, 2011 7:55 PM

DarthCorleone:

I re-read the article & you're right, she said she blacked out.

That still doesn't mean she was clearly too drunk to have sex with. The rest is still news to me, until I read your reply I thought (ASSumed) the articles were all quoting publicity released in advance of the book. I based my comments on Dr. Pisaster's article and the two others that seem clones of this one (in terms of their specifics).

I seriously am more offended by the often stated idea that Bristol is less believable because she is part of a Rethug family.

As SeaKat said: Just because someone's mom is a scheming liar with an agenda, it doesn't mean that person wasn't raped.

BUT just because you regret it later doesn't mean it WAS rape.

Posted by: Walter at June 22, 2011 8:10 PM

I wish people would at least stop acting like it's total bullshit that she would have been on hormonal bc for cramps or other medical reasons. Many, many young women take the pill for exactly those reasons. It's not something only those dirty sluts do as some folks seem to think. Jesus christ.

Posted by: CL at June 22, 2011 8:35 PM

I just want to call out the people who use her being on birth control as proof she's lying. The pill is a *very* common method of hormone control if you have abnormally bad cramps, heavy bleeding or long periods. I know several people who have been on it for these reasons, including my sister when she first started getting hers at 13.

Posted by: Simone at June 22, 2011 9:04 PM

Walter >> And I - and most others on this thread, it seems to me - are not claiming to know the degree to which she or Levi were drunk or the degree of consent involved. I'm not arguing that point with you here. I'm just pointing out exactly what the story is as she told it, and, given the ambiguity of that story, I think the resulting conversation about date rape that so many people are having in response is a relevant conversation to have. Rather than claiming knowledge of this specific incident that none of us have, Dr. Pisaster uses this as a springboard to clear up some commonly held general misconceptions that people are attempting to attribute to that incident.

In the end analysis, we simply don't know (and likely will never know) what happened based on the information available and given. Whether Bristol Palin is omitting, lying, exaggerating, or telling the entire and exact truth as she knows it, I don't think you can deny that there is an ongoing publicity war between Levi and the Palins and that this account adds to that war by painting him in a very bad light. I don't really care about their feud, though. Both sides would find much more honor in settling their differences privately as opposed to cashing in as they have.

At least there is some good in the dialogue that this has inspired. This is a very thoughtful thread.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at June 22, 2011 9:12 PM

Darth

Very good points, but on the topic of cashing in, I have to say Bristol will provide a better life for her rugrat by capitalizing on her notoriety/fame/family name. She is essentially an undereducated single mother. If she can either parlay her connections into an ongoing paycheck or raise enough money to set herself up with a business or some useful education, then good for her.

At least she didn't make a sex tape & "leak" it like some other celbutards, or celebutaints, or whatever they are. Not that I mind a good sex tape, but I do find it a little tacky to screw for money & pretend you didn't, like Paris, Kim, etc.

Posted by: Walter at June 22, 2011 9:41 PM

Fair enough. I don't begrudge her the right to go on Dancing With the Stars, appear in some Lifetime movie, or write a memoir, as slight as I think that memoir probably is. I just think it's tacky of her to air this story (whether it's true or not, but it's especially tacky if she is being intentionally falsely inflammatory) and prompt this level of public chatter. Someday that child of theirs is going to have to deal with what his mother and father hath wrought, and this does not make that any easier. Of course, I don't have any personal knowledge of the interactions between Bristol, Levi, and child, so I really can't speak to it. I'm just speculating.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at June 22, 2011 10:02 PM

I'll be honest: the first thought that came into my head when I read this story was, "I actually hope she's telling the truth, because if not, she has placed a horrific stain on her ex-boyfriend's reputation." Without passing judgment on whether she's telling the truth or not, I am glad to see a thread discuss this very difficult topic in a manner that is 99% an intelligent and conscientious discussion. And at the risk of being castigated, I have to say that a more comprehensive sex education program would probably have helped Bristol prevent getting knocked up (Plan B, making sure the birth control was the correct dosage, etc).

Posted by: keikoreo at June 22, 2011 10:39 PM

Both sides would find much more honor in settling their differences privately as opposed to cashing in as they have.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at June 22, 2011 9:12 PM

Not one of us can know whether or not this was rape, but of the above, there is absolutely no doubt. I'm sure her child would rather grow up poor than with this book and "controversy" hanging above his head.

Posted by: Uriah Creep at June 22, 2011 11:07 PM

Completely agree with your last comment, DarthCorleone. Well said.

Posted by: Figgy at June 23, 2011 12:26 AM

Hey, I have to say this: If you had sex with a woman who was passed out/black out drunk, if you were aware that she was passed out/blacked out drunk (she's sleeping, unresponsive, incoherent, drifting in and out of consciousness, etc...) and you still have sex with her...YOU RAPED HER. (It's even actually against the law to have sex with someone in that condition) I know it's difficult to grasp that you, a nice decent person with a job and such, might've had sex with a woman without her consent (i.e.: Rape) but ya did. You're a rapist. Not a hide in a dark alley rapist, but you raped a woman.

If Levi did what Bristol said, then he raped her. I was raped this way. I didn't wake up feeling violated or traumatized, rather I was left feeling really uncomfortable with the encounter. For years I thought it was a drunken night gone bad, but I came to realize as I learned more about what consent actually is, that I was raped. I was a drunk girl on a bed trying to sleep it off and virtual dead weight. My rapist crawled into bed with me and fondled me while I drifted in and out of consciousness.

In that condition I couldn't sign contracts, get married, testify in court, work heavy machinery, drive a car or even walk down the street, but I'm supposed to be "aware" enough to consent to another person entering my body? Fuck that. Men need to leave drunk women the fuck alone. I know there are men out there who would see a woman in that condition and leave her alone, but there are way too many that do. And instead of confronting that issue I have to deal with people telling me that I shouldn't have gotten that drunk or dare dishonor a man by suggesting that he's a rapist when he did in fact fucking rape me.

Posted by: Debbye at June 23, 2011 2:05 AM

What if two females get drunk, have sex, the next day neither remembers what happened, but find evidence (someone saw them or they videotaped it). Does one get to accuse the other of rape? Which one? Coin flip?

Posted by: Pat C. at June 23, 2011 2:08 AM

"Right this way, ladies and gentlemen. Here we have the first ever Pajiba rape-related post that did not explode into flames. Dated June 22, 2011, it was archived here for posterity. Notice the lack of poo on the walls - sir, please do not touch the walls - and the remarkably articulate and thoughtful comments throughout. It is said that if you squint and kind of shake your head around a little, an image of the Holy Godopus can be seen in the white background - sir, please don't touch the walls, what did I tell you? - and it is smiling.

Posted by: Tour Guide at June 23, 2011 2:18 AM

What if someone asks a hypothetical question that totally dismisses what the topic is about? That rape about gender rather than power and control? Implying rather stupidly that females are the only people who get raped? That men are the only people who rape? What do we do then?

Posted by: Debbye at June 23, 2011 4:05 AM

Basically here to cosign keikoreo, but I'd also like to say how much I seriously love the nuanced output of Dr. Pisaster. If this conversation had gone any other way I would have found it incredibly uncomfortable to lurk longer at Pajiba.

Posted by: Saucin' at June 23, 2011 7:37 AM

Good writing!

Posted by: Magiel at June 23, 2011 7:39 AM

I'll just add that I was on birth control because of a hormonal imbalance that caused my period to last for more than a month. It is really not uncommon. Also, I had a dormmate in college who fed me an s-load of vodka and tried to get in my pants, and only his roommate seeing what was happening and putting a stop to it kept me from being raped that night. I'd never drunk alcohol before and had no clue how much I was drinking, and I never did that kind of stupid thing again. I also didn't accuse the guy of attempted rape, because my roommate liked him and very few other people would have seen it that way.

Posted by: McSquish at June 23, 2011 7:53 AM

My friend, and I legit mean MY ACTUAL FRIEND WHO IS A SEPARATE ENTITY FROM MYSELF who I will call...B? B will do.

B was involved with a guy our second year, I didn't know him too well but hadn't liked what I'd seen of him but he wasn't nasty, we just clashed personalities as people do.

She had a lot of flirtation with this guy, culminating in his visiting her home over the christmas break during which they slept together. B believed this act to be the confirmation of their 'official' relationship but the guy, M, told her to her face, as he boarded the train to leave 'this doesn't mean we're a thing now' (doors close, B stands aghast watching him leave, calls me in hysterics)

I suppose you'd say they were casual lovers, more than friends with benefits but not a full on couple.

Any way, she's back at uni a week longer than me and she and M go out for a night as you do. They drink, they fight (which was also very common for them) they make up and go back to hers.

The next day, B wakes up nude, sore in her nethers and lacking in memory of last nights events. She told me she recalled the evening up to getting back to hers, then it's blank. She's never blacked out before(though we had no reason to suspect she'd been spiked) etc.

The morning after, M is very much expressing to B that they had sex, which M initially just accepted and figured the black out was just a thing that happened. She also started to feel very weird, she described suddenly feeling vulnerable while outside and panicky.

Then she started bleeding. She saw two nurses, unaware of each other, on different days, independently of each other. She told one nurse she'd been out with friends without mentioning what had happened with M and the nurse asked had B been alone at any point during the night and if she had, could an assault have taken place in that time?
B said no and the nurse said it may just be menstrual bleeding from the contraceptive pill. Second nurse, B tells her about the pseudo boyfriend being around and the nurse asks about the black out and asks if B actually remembers consenting to sex. This nurse was very factual, she explained bleeding after sex could mean B was too drunk to get wet and there may have been some abrasion caused. She could still have actively and willingly been having sex, just with little response from the body(like a dude who can't get hard). She also explained that the bleeding could mean the sex was rough, or even that an amount of force was required. Basically she also asked if B could have been raped.
Until then, B hadn’t considered ‘rape’ as she was with a friend she knew very well and had had consensual sex with before. She never did go to the police and it took 18 hours of solid discussion to convince her to at the very least ask him for a specific details of what happened that night.
This was four years ago now and to this day we don’t know exactly what happened. When she asked him about it he got very defensive(which is to be expected, what she was asking was serious as it gets) and while he told her his account of events he was vague enough that she still doesn’t have a clear picture of what took place.
She is sort of up in the air about what happens, which I respect. Personally, I think she was likely in a date rape situation. She was scared to even talk to a police advisor who might be able to tell her if, legally, what happened to her would be defined as rape, as she thought her four previous sexual partners would be flung back in her face and she’d be called a slut.
So I can sort of see how Bristol has come to the decision she has, to maybe not recognise it as rape. B has decided to accept she’ll never know but not to classify herself as a victim of rape. This is not shame or fear or anything. She just takes the approach that without a full memory of the events and with no real evidence either way that she doesn’t want to linger and consider herself to be a victim. She was concerned it would come to be too defining of a thing in her life. It still kind of has in a way but on her own terms so she has that.

But Bristol may be aware it was rape without being willing to publically acknowledge it and if she’d rather think of it as a stupid drunk mistake than a violation then it’s up to her. Admittedly, yes, I won’t lie, I get frustrated when rape victims male and female don’t want to report it. I want them to report it and have their attacker strung up by their back skin so the public can flay them. But it’s not up to me.

I’m off the opinion there are no shades of grey with rape. If a sexual partner is too drunk to say yes, to give any positive response, if you’re struggling to have the sex because their body won’t respond and you’re having to force your junk into/against their junk, then stop. Just stop.

I have a personal rule, when I’m out and I see a girl and guy and she’s maybe too drunk? I go over and ask her his name, then I ask him hers. Then I ask her what day/date it is, describe your outfit to me etc, if she cant any of it, she isn’t leaving with him. Sorry, but that’s how I am.

Posted by: Nadine at June 23, 2011 9:58 AM

I grew up in a deeply conservative religious family. I had it pounded into my head that "women of virtue/godly women" waited until marriage to have sex. I lost my virginity to a man at age 19. I felt an incredible amount of pressure from my family to marry the man to who I lost my virginity. Somehow, it was deemed less sinful to lose my virginity to the man I eventually married. Who wants to believe that at age 19 she is a godless harlot who has shamed herself and her entire family? Because of this family reality, what should have been a short and poorly-chosen relationship became an extremely destructive and highly damaging marriage.

The point of this story is to show how the combined pressures of religion and family could drive someone like Bristol Palin to stay with and even become engaged to Levi.

Posted by: androstarr at June 23, 2011 12:21 PM

Wait a minute! OK, so "rape" can sometimes be rather confusing rather than blatant. But what blew me away about this was the reaction of her family, particularly mom! Don't know about her dad. He seems to be the missing link in the family, but her mom included Levi in the campaign, publicly stating that the two were engaged to be married. Mom's behavior - and dad's no-show - on this subject is what curls my hair! It seems to me as if mom actually "sacrificed" her own daughter.

Posted by: mageen at June 23, 2011 1:14 PM

I'm sorry, Dr. Pisaster, your basic premise about "Rape and Shades of Gray" may be 100% true, but...

My caveat is multifold:
1) the Palin family, most particularly both Sarah Palin and Bristol Palin, are known for lying (examples re: Bristol specifically -- her testimony in the Kentucky trial of the student accused of hacking into guessing then-Gov Palin's Yahoo password; lying to the family custody judge about agreeing to directive about defaming the assumed father of Tripp).
2) she was told by someone not in the tent with her that she "definitely had sex".
3) wine coolers are considered by today's young people to be equivalent to "hard lemonade" -- derided as weak p!ss. They go straight for the hard stuff.
4) wine coolers were the drink of choice for young women (like me) in the '80s. Like young Sarah Palin, 24 y/o in '88 when she got pregnant several months before her marriage.
5) there have been reports that Bristol Palin had "moved on" from her on-again, off-again relationship with Levi Johnston by hooking up with Ben Barber Christmas 2009 when Barber moved into her Anchorage condo.
6) Then after the final Levi breakup in July 2010 dutifully reported in a cover story in People magazine, Bristol took up with Gino Paoletti, who followed her to Hollywood during the 2 months of DWTS, until November 2010. One wonders what prompted this both-barrels attack on Levi Johnston more than 6 months after Bristol broke up with Gino Paoletti.

I believe this entire narrative was actually written by Bristol's vindictive mother, who perhaps is drawing on some of her own youthful experiences and indiscretions to put red meat on the bare bones of what the world thought it knew about Bristol's first pregnancy.

Posted by: KarenJ at June 23, 2011 1:19 PM

On a practical level, how 'bout we draw the line between believable and not-so-believable if the "victim" caves to her mom's ambition and goes along with presenting the "rapist" to the nation on stage with the presidential candidate as your fiance?

Posted by: BobN at June 23, 2011 1:33 PM

It astounds me how trusting some of you are, and how easily your nice feminist sensibilities are being milked here. Yes, it often happens that boys get a girl drunk and have sex with her, even when they know she doesn't really want to do it. There are a thousand good reasons why a girl in this situation would be confused about what happened, blame herself, assume it was just making-out that went too far because they were drunk, and continue to date or have sex with the same guy afterward. There are also confusing situations where both parties are drunk, or someone consents to sex but can't remember having done so, and there's little point fretting about whether to stamp these things with the label "rape" or not because we are not in a courtroom at the moment. I get all of this. I've been raped, and counseled rape survivors, and witnessed a lot of horrible things, and I know how often stuff like this happens and how difficult it is to get past people's biases and confusion about this issue.

Nevertheless, THIS person, Bristol Palin, is lying. I don't know exactly which details of her stories are real and which are fudged or outright false, but her book as a whole is a fat pack of lies. Just as one example, this nonsense about the birth control pill? First I heard she was taking it for "cramps". Yeah, I know this happens. But then, on page 85 of her book, you discover that she was using condoms with Levi, and afterwards got a prescription for birth control, which in HER own words: “meant Levi and I could stop using condoms, and I could make sure I wouldn’t get pregnant.” This is why she was so shocked to find herself pregnant with Tripp, leading to the 8 positive pregnancy tests that, of course, she subsequently left in her car to be discovered by her sister.

There's also the small matter of her earlier boyfriend, some guy named Johnny, and whatever she was doing with him that would have caused Sarah Palin to suspect that Bristol was pregnant. All this was posted by Bristol herself on Myspace. And hey, she may not have drunk a wine cooler before, but apparently she was smoking pot, or at least discussing it online as if she had? I can believe that some 15 year olds would be using weed before trying alcohol, but then, those 15 year olds are hardly the moralistic princesses Bristol pretends to be in her many tall tales.

I've had someone fuck me without my consent while I was passed out drunk, and you know what that's like? I'll tell you: one doesn't need to text one's friend the next AM to be informed by the friend that you "totally had sex!" with the guy. So if that's what Bristol is alleging happened to her, then I call bullshit. Something was "askew"? She figured out what happened because her friend told her? Or maybe upon questioning Levi later? Or because he told his friend? Come on. This is nonsense, and it's a massive insult to people who have actually been raped.

Posted by: Suzy at June 23, 2011 1:54 PM

Those who've ever tied one (or more) on have certainly had the experience of waking up the next day and being told by friends about the amazing (and fully consensual) things they did the night before. 'Not remembering' is not equivalent to 'being raped.'

Posted by: magistra at June 23, 2011 2:44 PM

So much to say here. But the basic thrust is that rape is both black and white and filled with shades of gray, and that many of the facts here are consistent both with a possible rape and with teenagers fooling around, perhaps after having too much to drink.

1. Birth control. As many people have pointed out, yes, non-sexually active girls take birth control. So this isn't a fact that really proves anything.

On the other hand, it's also true that narratives of young women from conservative backgrounds about their first sexual experiences generally include some sort of denial of agency. (I wish I remember the author, but there was a book by a 1970's feminist called "Swept Away" about this phenomenon. Oh wait, here it is. Carol Cassell:

http://www.amazon.com/Swept-Away-Women-Confuse-Love/dp/0671681834/ref=sr_1_13?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1308855071&sr=1-13
)

So "I'm taking birth control for cramps (or to regulate my period)" can also be the statement of someone who is taking the pill for its primary purpose but doesn't want to admit it.

2. More generally, Bristol's story reeks of Cassell's argument. It's all about denial of sexual agency. I was waiting until marriage. He got me so drunk that I don't remember anything. I found out the next morning what we did. I made him promise we wouldn't do it again until we got married.

Basically, it's "whatever we did, it was all Levi".

Again, denial of sexual agency is a common response to conservative upbringing. It's a natural resolution of two urges: (1) the desire to have sex and (2) the desire not to let all the people down who urged you not to have sex.

3. Rape is rape. And perhaps Bristol was raped. It wouldn't surprise me.

And one form of rape is rape by intoxication-- i.e., getting a woman so drunk that she is no longer in control of herself and can no longer consent.

But that said, people also get really drunk precisely to INITIATE sex, and to lower inhibitions so they can consent to sex they wouldn't consent to sober. And they often do things they later regret, but I think we all agree that later regret + drunkenness does not necessarily = rape.

Look, at bottom, this is one reason why so many people are concerned about teenage binge drinking. Voluntary intoxication is exactly what blurs the objective line between sex and rape. (The subjective line is not blurred as much. If a drunk woman consents (so long as she is not so drunk as to make the consent not meaningful), it's not rape. And if a drunk woman does not consent, it is rape. What is blurred is the ability of anyone else to determine whether a rape occurred.) When you get older, one thing that happens is that you have more experience with alcohol and can in fact make the connection-- "if I have 2 or 3 more of these, I'll probably be going home with this guy". If you explicitly think that through, I suspect you are much less likely to regret it later on. But teenagers just think that alcohol is fun and taboo, and that interacting with members of the opposite sex is fun and taboo. It's not only a lot harder for a teenager to weigh the risks of alcohol, but it's also a lot harder for her to evaluate whether or not she really consented while she was drunk (especially if she feels very strongly that she would have never done the same thing sober). And, by the way, it's a lot harder for a teenage boy with the same lack of experience with sex and alcohol to evaluate whether his girlfriend is too intoxicated to consent and to have the judgment to stop if she is.

What do I take from all this? We, as a society (thanks in no small part to the crowd Sarah Palin runs with) still have huge taboos about sex, including teenage sexuality. And our efforts to stop teenage drinking seem to be largely ineffective. As a result, a lot of teenagers have to overcome a lot of guilt and mixed feelings to be sexually active, and they use alcohol to get over that hump. That, in turn, creates serious judgment and consent issues and probably increases the frequency of rape, as well as sex acts that weren't exactly rape but which people later regret when they are sober.

Posted by: Dilan Esper at June 23, 2011 3:04 PM

I keep reading this story in various places and I keep stopping to wonder why people would think that Sarah Palin wouldn't do such a thing. WTF? Of course she would.

In her eyes it wasn't rape. Her daughter got drunk and a thing happened that happens to girls who let themselves be in situations like that.

As far as dear old Mom is concerned, Bristol made her bed and has to lay in it. It's the only way to make things right before her god, social circle, etc.

Why is anybody surprised by this? It happens all the time in this country. And other countries.

I'm not saying SP is right. I agree that the whole story sounds very much like date rape and, if true, is pretty damned awful. But I can't understand why folks are surprised by SP's behavior.

Posted by: JGirl at June 23, 2011 3:14 PM

I've had someone fuck me without my consent while I was passed out drunk, and you know what that's like? I'll tell you: one doesn't need to text one's friend the next AM to be informed by the friend that you "totally had sex!" with the guy. So if that's what Bristol is alleging happened to her, then I call bullshit. Something was "askew"? She figured out what happened because her friend told her? Or maybe upon questioning Levi later? Or because he told his friend? Come on. This is nonsense, and it's a massive insult to people who have actually been raped.

Exactly.
Nice for all the people to try to give her the benifit of the doubt, but come on, she's lieing about it being the first time she drank.
That's been called bull for a while.
Go look at old Mutflats posts, or the Anchorage Daily News or the Frontiersman. There are many, many posts by parents who know her and her family.
She was a wild girl in school.
She hung out with and drank with others, she cut school.
She was a normal if kinda wild teenager.
I'm not saying that she was not a virgin or anything - it's not the point, the point is that she lies.
About it being the first time she drank.
About her grades.
About her relationship with her friends. So why believe her woe is me story now?

Posted by: doubter at June 23, 2011 4:23 PM

I would point out that not remembering does not always mean you blacked out or passed out. In my youth I drove home drunk on a number of occasions without remembering how I did it. I certainly did not do it while passed out.

Not remembering consent does not automatically mean rape.

And again, the willing relinquishment of any responsibility on the part of the female makes me sick.

Posted by: Protoguy at June 23, 2011 10:52 PM

You know what a lecturer at law school told me with respect to both parties being too drunk to remember a night in which intercourse occurred (absent coercion, ie two mates on the tear randomly falling into bed together afterwards)?

The first to complain - effectively - got raped by the other.

Interesting point in an incredibly complex scenario, but the law doesn't allow people to voluntarily lower their ability to recognize consent, even if it's mutual.

For a hard drinker with hard-at-it mates, THAT'S a scary fucking thought.

Posted by: Peter G at June 24, 2011 2:18 AM

My first reaction to this excerpt is that it REEKS of someone trying to portray themselves as the ultimate good girl. Given what I know about the entire Palin family's propensity to lie, I believe this story (or at least this telling of it) to be untrue. As a survivor of sexual assault that resulted in the loss of my virginity to my first boyfriend, I am very angry at the way Bristol is using the misery of others to try and bolster her own ego and position in the world.

Posted by: 42 at June 24, 2011 10:44 AM

To generalise (a.k.a. make wild assumptions):

I think we (commenters) all agree with what Dr Pisaster has written. But some of us are also uncomfortable with the timing of this revelation. It's all so damn convenient. Her mother has commenced her run for President and now she has an explanation for all her (mothers) constituents as to how she came to be an un-wed mother. The blame is neatly shifted to Levi, yet without her actually pointing the finger and saying "Date Rape".

And yet, I feel terrible for even having this moment of cynicism. It's awful.

FWIW: I'm reminded of my drunken sexual escapades as a youth (none ever approaching date rape) and noting that we survived just fine; and yet still apprehensive of my daughter (9y.o. and sitting next to me playing on her laptop) ever meeting a guy like Levi. Or even sneaking out to go camping with friends.

Posted by: Nick at June 24, 2011 6:09 PM

* when she's older, obviously (my daughter)

Posted by: Nick at June 24, 2011 6:10 PM

I just can't muster up sympathy for the Palins. Even assuming that a bunch of pathological liars like them actually told the truth, their life's philosophy is to remain as intentionally ignorant as possible of all the things than go on in the world, be it sex, laws, international affairs, ecological affairs, science, or reason, and then go running the most powerful political and economic positions they can get with it.

If they actually had the family talk about sex, and Bristol made sure to indulge in the earthly sins in a cautious and knowledgeable manner, she wouldn't have spent two seconds with a piece of trash like Levi. Now Bristol's going around talking about never having sex ever until your married, as opposed to teaching and learning how to avoid guys like Levi. It's the equivalent of a lemming surviving a dive off a cliff, and then saying the best way to avoid cliffs is by shutting your eyes tight while walking around because God will protect you from ever falling again.

Bristol might have been sympathetic if she actually did any of that, but instead, she continues to preach the philosophy of abstinence only without talking about how to actually avoid the pitfalls of bad sex and bad relationships, all while making a hefty paycheck, and setting up her kid for another generation of ignorance. Fuck her.

Posted by: Devil Child at June 26, 2011 9:31 AM

Darth

Very good points, but on the topic of cashing in, I have to say Bristol will provide a better life for her rugrat by capitalizing on her notoriety/fame/family name. She is essentially an undereducated single mother. If she can either parlay her connections into an ongoing paycheck or raise enough money to set herself up with a business or some useful education, then good for her.

At least she didn't make a sex tape & "leak" it like some other celbutards, or celebutaints, or whatever they are. Not that I mind a good sex tape, but I do find it a little tacky to screw for money & pretend you didn't, like Paris, Kim, etc.

Posted by: Walter at June 22, 2011 9:41 PM

Bristol Palin would have to dig up the corpse of Ken Lay and stitch her families bank account number on his ballsack in order to be anywhere close to poverty for the rest of her life. This whole business is to rehabilitate her image so the wealth and political connections she's destined to receive will be restored to their former level.

She's an uneducated single mother, but the sad thing is, she's actually proud of being uneducated, her whole family is, and the mentality that it's in any way okay needs to be shoved in the same coffin Ken Lay's useless carcass now resides.

Posted by: Devil Child at June 26, 2011 9:42 AM

Man, I thought I was going to regret clicking on this discussion. Thanks for proving me wrong, calm Pajibans.

Posted by: Salieri2 at June 26, 2011 4:40 PM