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A Dare to be Great Situation

By Dustin Rowles | Posted Under Film Reviews | Comments (56)



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(This marks the beginning of our 80s week, where — over the next three days — each of the site’s critics will post reviews or commentary on notable 80’s films, as we did in previous years for the 50s, 60s, and 70s.)

We often cry out for the good ole’ days, when movies were better than they are now. But most of that is simple generational discrimination and selective blindness. You can look at any era and find as many bad movies then as there are now. It’s just that our memories of the bad and forgettable have faded, while the gems cling desperately to our collective consciousness.

But where it concerns romantic comedies, it is absolutely true. They don’t make ‘em like they used to. When is the last time you saw a studio romantic comedy that was not premised on a high concept? That didn’t involved a contrived misunderstanding? Where one of the romantic partners didn’t have a secret they were keeping? That didn’t involve an insufferable meet cute? That felt organic and real, like the characters were based on actual people and not pulled from a studio formula? When is the last romantic comedy you could quote? More than once? Today, romantic comedies would rather sacrifice romance for a cheap laugh that will look good in the trailer than build an actual relationship based on two likable characters with convincing chemistry.

Cameron Crowe’s 1989 film, Say Anything was, at its core, about two good people who fell in love. Not in any sort of contrived way, but in the way that real people fall in love: By spending time together, by getting to know one another, and by realizing that you are meant to be together. Lloyd Dobler nervously calls Diane Court on the phone. They go to a party together. He comes over for dinner to meet her Dad. He teacher her how to drive. They spend time with one another. They fall deeply in love. They (presumably) live happily ever after. The end.

There are, of course, circumstances that threaten to pull them apart, but they are not of their own making. They arise out of a desire to be better people. It is not a case of the lesser of two evils, or of mistaken identity, of an elaborate misunderstanding, or of accidental pregnancy. In the end, it’s a case of choosing great over good.

Much has been written over the years since the release of Say Anything about how Lloyd Dobler has been educational in helping to inform women about what they want in a man — about the “Myth of Lloyd Dobbler.” A lot of theories have been posited about what makes Lloyd Dobbler the ideal, about how women have been trying ever since to find that sweet, sensitive, geeky kick-boxing Prince Charming. (Just as many cracks have been made about how Dobler might be considered a stalker today, ironic in the sense that we allow every minute detail of our lives to be followed on Twitter or Facebook — sometimes, it’s like we’re begging to be stalked). Chuck Klosterman has suggested that Lloyd Dobbler doesn’t actually exist (hence, the “myth”), and that no man could possibly live up to that ideal.

With all due respect to Klosterman’s quasi-pop psychology: He’s flat-out fucking wrong. Because you don’t have to look like Lloyd Dobler to attain that ideal. You don’t have to be that sweet, sensitive anti-consumerist stammering guy who cries on a pay phone. Who exposes his vulnerability by shivering after sex. It’s not Dobler’s vulnerability that makes him so attractive. What makes Lloyd Dobler ideal is something that almost any man can attain. Women aren’t looking for “Lloyd Dobler.” They’re looking for someone who can love them in the right way. Lloyd Dobler isn’t a myth; he’s a man, like so many of us, who loves women. It’s not as common as you think, but neither is it mythically rare.

What’s not been written as much about Say Anything is how it’s informed men of a certain generation, and maybe even subsequent ones. It’s not that those of us of a certain age wanted to emulate Dobler, and it’s not that we believed that we could get more ladies by affecting a sensitive, nice-guy attitude (although, it has crossed our minds). What it did for many of us was to give us a sense of boundless romantic optimism. It instilled in us a belief that anything was possible. That we could wake up and begin our assault on the world. That we were Icemen. That we could achieve that dare to be great situation. That we could be in a good mood, goddamnit, by deciding to be in a good mood (is that so hard?).

Lloyd Dobler has stuck with me over the years, through my teens and twenties, and into marriage, adulthood, and even parenting. My wife: She’s a worrisome individual, often terrified that if we say the wrong thing, buy him the wrong toys, or expose him to the wrong television shows, that our son will become some sort of evangelical, right-wing psychopath who will butcher kittens. Whenever one of these concerns arise, I always think of Dobler, of Say Anything, and of the essence of that movie: Be a good person. If you can do that, the rest will take care of itself.

There is a scene in Say Anything that speaks to me more than any other, and it’s probably a throw-away scene. Mike Cameron (played by Jason Gould, son of Barbara Streisand) asks Lloyd Dobler, “How come it worked. I mean, like, what are you?” And Lloyd answers, “I’m Lloyd Dobler.”

That’s it. For so many of us, that’s the message of Say Anything. “I’m Lloyd Dobler.” Anyone can be Lloyd Dobler. Because Lloyd Dobler isn’t a face; he isn’t a set of mannerisms; he isn’t an ethos. He’s an average guy. But he’s an average guy who knows how to love women in the right way. Be her friend (with potential). If you can do that, the rest will take care of itself.









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Comments

Class all the way DR!

Did anyone else expect Jimmy Fallon to start singing "Joe Lies" when he was doing the guitar intros to the categories on the Emmys?

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at September 1, 2010 11:09 AM

Nice write up. I will say as a "good guy" it is ridiculously easy to get shoe-horned into the "just friends zone" with a girl. I've never been able to covert a girl I was friends with into a girlfriend. I think there was potential a couple of times but her signs in that direction were so hesitant and crossed it was hard to figure out what she wanted anyway and if you make a move at the wrong time you can blow the whole damn thing.

No, for me it has to be from the start or it just doesn't happen. Anyone else like this? I don't get it really but it did cause immense frustration when I was a teen. I think it's because when I fall in love I fall hard. My relationships have always advanced to serious very rapidly and my friendships tend to take the same pattern. I think I just moved too fast for my own good to pull of a conversion.

Thank God I'm married now (again) and don't have to deal with this shit anymore.

Posted by: TylerDFC at September 1, 2010 11:16 AM

Haven't even read this review but just wanted to say that ever since I first caught this on tv (sorry folks but I wasn't alive in 1988) I have loved it. It's my favorite movie. And nothing y'all say is gonna change my mind. I love Lloyd, I love the guys at the Gas N Sip, I love Corey and DC....Diane not so much but hey, you can still trust a man who writes a letter everyday.

Probably gonna watch this later today, since I'm looking for a dare-to-be-great situation. Amen Lloyd, amen.

Posted by: grace b at September 1, 2010 11:30 AM

Be her friend (with potential). If you can do that, the rest will take care of itself.

Oh, dude, NO. If you want to be my friend, be my friend. If you want to ask me out, ask me out. Don't be my friend and wait around all clearly aching to be with me and when we're watching a movie drunk throw a stray popcorn at my head hoping to start a flirt-fight. Because by then I'll want to be your friend, nothing else, and it will be a never-ending awkward friendship that I can't get out of to save my life.

I mean, I liked Lloyd Dobler too, but don't do this.

Posted by: Pheligan at September 1, 2010 11:37 AM

Great movie. I especially like the scene where loving-but-immoral Dad is afforded a moment of flattery & flirtation when shopping for Diane's luggage, only to have it shit the bed with the realization that his credit has been frozen; the jig is up. It's perfectly sweet & sad, & easily could've been sad alone.

Posted by: the new transported man at September 1, 2010 11:38 AM

I love this movie without exception but would also like to offer another take on it (which will be met with vitriol I'm sure): Say Anything is the first half of Wuthering Heights modernized and set in Seattle. I present my evidence below with supporting quotes from the original text:

Heathcliff (played by John Cusack) is a penniless boy with no visible parents and no trade. Upon leaving school he has no plan and no academic record.

“In the first place, he had by that time lost the benefit of his early education: continual hard work, begun soon and concluded late, had extinguished any curiosity he once possessed in pursuit of knowledge, and any love for books or learning.”

But he was good-looking, into kick-boxing and had the kind of bad-boy appeal that many women find hard to resist.

“He had grown a tall, athletic, well-formed man…. His upright carriage suggested the idea of his having been in the army…. A half-civilised ferocity lurked yet in the depressed brows and eyes full of black fire, but it was subdued; and his manner was even dignified: quite divested of roughness, though stern for grace.”

For his entire life, he has doggedly obsessed over a beautiful, talented rich girl, Cathy (played by Ione Skye), acknowledged as the most intelligent, popular girl in school; a class valedictorian who was very sure of herself.

“At fifteen she was the queen of the countryside; she had no peer; and she did turn out a haughty, headstrong creature!”

When he finally gains the courage to let her know his feelings, they come together as if they were made for each other. He teaches her to ride (drive) and they consummate their love in the wild outdoors. The rain-swept gritty urban streets of Seattle work very nicely as a stand-in for the Yorkshire moors.

Unfortunately, Cathy has a relative, Hindley (played by John Mahoney) who has never managed to get over the loss of his wife in childbirth, and is now corrupt and evil.

“He was always greedy; though what he grasps with one hand he flings away with the other”

He resents Cathy’s relationship with Heathcliff. He feels Heathcliff is beneath her in status, and he fumes as he see how close they have grown.

Eventually, he engineers a break-up between the two. Cathy takes to her bed in misery and Heathcliff takes to stalking her, hiding in the bushes outside her home, as noted by

“‘But if I live, I’ll see you again before you are asleep. I won’t stray five yards from your window.”

Of course in Hollywood fashion, he wins her back, and film ends quite happily with Hindley disgraced, and Heathcliff and Cathy together.

Posted by: PaddyDog at September 1, 2010 11:45 AM

I married the good guy; the one the other girls wish had wanted them. We started as friends and the natural process of things developed it into something more. Perhaps some would say that it helped that I had previously dated a complete arsehole: in other ways it did not because it made me more defensive to the gestures of sincere compliments and true affection without agenda. Some days the only thing I wish I could change was that I could have found him from the off, so that he could truly be my first, last and everything. That is all.

Posted by: Goldie at September 1, 2010 11:55 AM

@PaddyDog:

*applause*

Posted by: Samantha at September 1, 2010 11:58 AM

* slow clap

Posted by: bubblegumshoe at September 1, 2010 12:05 PM

Dustin,

You love Lloyd Dob[b]ler because you ARE Lloyd Dob[b]ler! You fucking did it!!! Don't believe me? Check it:

- You're so goddamned sensitive that every Pajiban has questioned your sexuality on at least 7 different occasions.

- You constantly seek out the whimsiquirklicious (?) films and slather your manhood all over them.

- You pine for quality romantic comedies like other guys pine for the NFL season to just fucking start already!

- You always have a well-crafted, reasoned, jaw-dropping argument chambered in the barrel, waiting for someone to ask you a sarcastic, open-ended question meant to embarrass you.

- I bet your left nut that you've performed some variation of the boombox scene, no doubt.

- And I believe that running Pajiba qualifies you for the most important Dob[b]lerism of all:
"I don't want to sell anything, buy anything, or process anything as a career. I don't want to sell anything bought or processed, or buy anything sold or processed, or process anything sold, bought, or processed, or repair anything sold, bought, or processed. You know, as a career, I don't want to do that."

Congratulations, Dustin. You're livin' the dream.

Posted by: Kballs at September 1, 2010 12:07 PM

@Paddydog

Nellie! I am Lloyd!

I love your theory, but you left out the part where Heathcliff is a complete effing asshole.

I tried to reread Wuthering Heights recently and my principle reaction was to huff "Ugh! Teenagers!" and throw the book across the room. So much for my degree in English. I'm not proud.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at September 1, 2010 12:12 PM

Wow, both PaddyDog and Kballs just cut the whole truth out and paraded it like it was Gay Pride Day.

Posted by: idiosynchronic at September 1, 2010 12:13 PM

Ah, Lloyd Dobler. I LOVE this film. Speaking as a freak who languished in a fundie high school where nearly all the boys posed with hunting rifles and dead deer for their senior portraits, Lloyd was a breath of fresh air. Gave me hope about getting the hell out of Harford County and about the gentle, complex men who might be waiting for me on the other side.

As an aside I feel bound to point out that Lili Taylor was the true star of that film...

Posted by: Amandahugandkiss at September 1, 2010 12:18 PM

I married Lloyd Dobler. I'm grateful for that every single day. :)

Posted by: Chickaboom at September 1, 2010 12:19 PM

Mrs. Julien:

I said it's the first half of the book. Heathcliff's assholiness really develops in the second half.

Posted by: PaddyDog at September 1, 2010 12:19 PM

P.S. when they shot the boom box scene he was actually playing a Clash song. They dubbed Peter Gabriel over it.

Posted by: PaddyDog at September 1, 2010 12:20 PM

A three-day week? LAAAAAAAAAME.


he was actually playing a Clash song.

Oh, what could have been....what could have been. I don't like that Peter Gabriel song.

Posted by: Jay at September 1, 2010 12:35 PM

Which Clash song?

Posted by: icecreammang at September 1, 2010 12:50 PM

Hey my brother, can I borrow a copy of your "Hey Soul Classics"?

No, my brother, you have to go buy your own!

Posted by: THRILLHO at September 1, 2010 12:54 PM

I can't remember which Clash song he said it in an interview once: that he had to play the Clash to generate the right emotions.

Posted by: PaddyDog at September 1, 2010 12:56 PM

Awesome commentary Dustin! I absolutely love this movie, in fact for me it is in my top five films of all time. After I saw this movie I really felt a connection with Lloyd, the inner strength he had to walk up to Diane and tell her he was in love with her. For a time I wanted to be Lloyd Dobler, this movie really touched me.

Posted by: Pookie at September 1, 2010 1:06 PM

Like I said the other day this movie made me think Cusack was going to be an AK-tor. Shows what I know.

Posted by: logan at September 1, 2010 1:22 PM

Gave me hope about getting the hell out of Harford County and about the gentle, complex men who might be waiting for me on the other side.
Dude, Amanda! Are you talking Harford County, MD? If so, hit me up! We can chat Maryland-ness. If not, ignore that lol.

The comments on this review are great. What I love about Lloyd is his complete comfortability in himself, which although he's rattled by Diane he never just stops being who he is. I love that.

Oh, dude, NO. If you want to be my friend, be my friend. If you want to ask me out, ask me out. Don't be my friend and wait around all clearly aching to be with me and when we're watching a movie drunk throw a stray popcorn at my head hoping to start a flirt-fight. Because by then I'll want to be your friend, nothing else, and it will be a never-ending awkward friendship that I can't get out of to save my life.

Omg DITTO x1000. The Friend Zone. Fear it, fellas. Yea I think that Diane is the one who finally woke up and realized she had good boyfriend material.

Man I love this movie.

Posted by: grace b at September 1, 2010 1:31 PM

So I love this movie but it will forever be on my "awkward teenage moments" list as I watched this with my father. Just the two of us, father and daughter. Um, yeah.

Posted by: bananapanda at September 1, 2010 2:17 PM

Pookie???

You off your meds again or something?

Posted by: PaddyDog at September 1, 2010 2:29 PM

@grace b- Yep, the one and only Harford County, MD! You got out too?

Posted by: Amandahugandkiss at September 1, 2010 2:33 PM

"I gave her my heart. She gave me a pen."

That is all.

Posted by: RobP at September 1, 2010 2:41 PM

@PaddyDog

Your theory really was great, I just didn't want my beloved Lloyd besmirched by association.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at September 1, 2010 2:53 PM

"... it’s not that we believed that we could get more ladies by affecting a sensitive, nice-guy attitude (although, it has crossed our minds)." Dude, NO-NO-NO - so much bullshit in so few words.

"Affecting" is the key here. HE'S NOT BEING REAL. That's the Nice Guy (TM) in a nutshell, the seemingly good guy who makes sure he's always there for you, caring, concerned... THEN thinks he's entitled (in every sense of the word) to have sex, whether you want it or not, because he's been so nice. NO, HE HASN'T; WHAT HE'S BEEN IS A SELFISH FUCKING POSER.

"...Lloyd Dobler has been educational in helping to inform women about what they want in a man..." again with the bullshit! Remember "Big"? How much ink was wasted by "experts" telling women that what they REALLY wanted was a little boy trapped inside a man's body? Bollocks then, bollocks now. Don't "inform" me about anything, you pretentious wankers.

Posted by: jeanne at September 1, 2010 3:09 PM

Jeanne's been through a lot, apparently.

Posted by: Kballs at September 1, 2010 3:20 PM

I still love his speech about what he doesn't want to do with his life, and the older I get the more I realize how hard it is to avoid all of the things he plans on avoiding (unless you go into kickboxing, the sport of the future, obviously):

"I don't want to sell anything, buy anything, or process anything as a career. I don't want to sell anything bought or processed, or buy anything sold or processed, or process anything sold, bought, or processed, or repair anything sold, bought, or processed. You know, as a career, I don't want to do that."

Posted by: Nicole at September 1, 2010 3:27 PM

It's not tha guys should be just a friend and then convert over to romantic interest...it's that a romantic interest should also be a friend. My husband is my best friend and always had been, and that's gotten us through 15 years together.

Posted by: McSquish at September 1, 2010 3:36 PM

1985...

Does anyone want to go to Mr. Greenjeans for lunch at the Eaton Centre and then buy some stickers for our homework books?

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at September 1, 2010 4:02 PM

Oops! That was supposed to be on the Pajiba 10 1985 Edition. The offer still stands.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at September 1, 2010 4:04 PM

1985...

Does anyone want to do a fuckin pile of coke and then go buy some parachute pants?

Posted by: The Other Agent Johnson at September 1, 2010 4:05 PM

Anodyne + Dull = I will never, ever, EVER like this movie.

Dobler: Sensitive rule-breaker or shiftless, mooncalf buffoon? *sigh* Oh, you endearing young fictional archetypes, does the kicking make you want to believe again? If you want to believe in something, believe in algebra.

Signed,
Not sorry at all.

Love you guys, but I'd sooner polish my winter boots with effluvia and my tongue before watching this again. I'll repeat it for all of my homies in the cheap seats: Take your pillow-soft lilac kisses and write a motet. Not sorry at all! Viva life!

Posted by: Jo 'Mama' Besser at September 1, 2010 5:27 PM

I enjoyed this Lloyd Dobler tribute very much. Thanks, Dustin.

I especially appreciated it after that lambasting that Lloyd got in a comment thread on Pajiba several months back (or perhaps over a year ago). Long live Lloyd Dobler, his pretzels, his Joe Satriani appreciation, his desire not to process anything, and his Diane Court adoration!

And never forget: Joe lies when he cries.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at September 1, 2010 6:01 PM

Ah...fond memories of this one. Put it this way, if you couldn't get laid after taking a date to this, you couldn't get laid at all.

Posted by: Sean at September 1, 2010 6:51 PM

He’s an average guy. No, he's not.

The world is full of guys. Be a man. Don't be a guy.

Posted by: Mr F at September 1, 2010 8:36 PM

In the language of love, "nice guy" is synonymous with "coward".

But seriously, I hated this movie, I don't know why you guys are so hard-core for it.

Posted by: Salad Is Murder at September 2, 2010 2:18 AM

@Mrs. Julien:
Yes, please.
Except that I know at least four people who've gotten food poisoning at Mr. Greenjeans. Even stickers for my homework book might not be worth that price. Unless they're unicorn stickers. Sparkly unicorn stickers. They're worth any price.

Posted by: Pea at September 2, 2010 8:55 AM

@Mrs. Julien and @Pea - As a suburban GTA kid, Lime Rickey's by Square One was our Mr. Greenjeans (but I did go there once or twice). You two should come out west for some milkshakes and cheese fries, and then we can go shopping for water-filled glitter bracelets and jelly shoes. Obviously, this would be in addition to the sparkly unicorn stickers that I agree are worth any price.

Posted by: Nicole at September 2, 2010 10:04 AM

@Pea

Did you also stock up on shoelaces with colourful patterns? I had hearts as I recall. RAINBOW hearts. The 80s were so cheerful that way. If it weren't for all of the viewings of "If You Love This Planet" I might have been willing to unspool from the fetal position.

Bonus Nerd Points: I worked at Kernels Popcorn near the Dundas subway entrance.

Posted by: Mrs. Julien at September 2, 2010 10:05 AM

As movies go, an impressionable youth can do far worse than be influenced by Say Anything. I was the (much) darker version of Lloyd Dobler. Black trenchcoat & sneakers? Check. Sensitive, but tough? Check.

Loved the movie. Enjoyed the review.

Posted by: psy at September 2, 2010 10:50 AM

Be her friend (with potential). If you can do that, the rest will take care of itself.

Worked for my boyfriend. He was also geeky, sweet and did karate when I met him, so he's not far off Dobler. Aww. I always did want my own John Cusack. (Not now obviously, but back in the day, when his nose was still too big for his face and he was all gawky like.)

Posted by: Carrie at September 2, 2010 11:35 AM

@Amandahugandkiss

My Dad did. We live in Bmore so I'm close. Occasionally we venture back to see the gun-toting, Republican, Dubya-missing relatives. :) Small world!

Posted by: grace b at September 2, 2010 5:18 PM

p.s. I love all of you and these Lloyd Dober appreciative comments.

Posted by: grace b at September 2, 2010 5:22 PM

Love Lloyd. Would flip if my daughter was dating him.

Posted by: samantha t at September 2, 2010 7:03 PM

I married Lloyd Dobler: Hot, sensitive, intelligent, pro-underground, and he has a black belt. He even likes Peter Gabriel.

Excuse me while I snuggle with Mr. Mebe and thank my lucky stars.

Posted by: Mebe at September 2, 2010 9:56 PM

@grace b- it was Kingsville for me, then I moved to Catonsville in the big bag Baltimore County. But I always get a bit antsy when I have to go back to Kingsville/Aberdeen/Havre de Grace. Have a Natty Boh for me x

Posted by: Amandahugandkiss at September 3, 2010 6:34 AM

Posted by: Nedra at September 3, 2010 5:01 PM

Mrs. Julien, that was pretty much my exact reaction to Wurthering Heights as well. Only, I read it when I was a teenager.

One thing about it, though, is it's one of the very rare books where I passionately disliked every character, but genuinely enjoyed the book.

Posted by: dsbs at September 3, 2010 5:27 PM

Anyone who describes themselves as the much darker, black trenchcoat and sneaker wearing, sensitive but tough guy in highschool is a fucking pussy. PSY.

Posted by: Jack Random at September 6, 2010 7:31 PM

Released price examining. I noticed them well written and also without difficulty easy to understand. I have to individually be grateful for an hour or two you spent to write the application. I will be pretty pleased plus wait for up coming write-up.

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