Pajiba

So THAT explains it.

I sent in a request for some information on a drafting program at one of these schools because I was curious about what was involved in taking a class or two. Since then, I've been getting calls 3 times a day, every damn day for a week and it's starting to get very irritating. It's like they are a cult instead of a college.

I made a point of watching this when it was on Frontline. My company did work for one of the big for-profit schools, and not only are they shady as hell with their students, they're pretty damn shady to their vendors, too. I shared an office with a coworker who had to listen in on the recruiting calls, and man, I heard some scary, scary stuff those people were promising.

I also dated an instructor for Phoenix. I, as a dog trainer, knew more about learning theory than he did.

Wow- I had no idea a program at University of Phoenix cost that much. I assumed it was a hamster wheel for the cheap & lazy and the only benefit was you could spend a few grand and pretend you are doing something with your life. Why on Earth would you pay that much (or borrow that much) for an online degree?

I would love to see some statistics on what percentage of graduates end up employed in their chosen field, and what their earnings are 1 year, 3 years, and 5 years out of school. And I would hope that publication of those statistics would be enough to put an end to most of this, but it probably won't. Apparently people are too stupid to ask basic questions and just assume that college = good and deferred payment means no worries. There has got to be some kind of Catch-22 that if you are dumb enough to spend $30,000 on an online degree you are too stupid to benefit from higher education, and clearly unqualified for any job that requires critical thinking.

Here's another problem with the whole system: At the age of 32, I decided to go to college. I started at my county's community college (currently at $144.60/credit), which is a two-year school. After finishing up there, I transferred to William Paterson, the local state university, which supposedly has an excellent Communications program (currently $433.80/credit). So far, in ~10 classes, I feel I got a better education and I certainly had a better experience at the community college. I got more for my money there. The teachers were better, nicer, and more interested in the students, and the student body, in addition to being more diverse (particularly age-wise), actually wanted to be there.

It kind of sucks. Especially when it makes me want to quit.

This really hits home to me. I teach an online course at a university here in Chicago (most unis now offer classroom and online options). I can't tell you how many students assume due to U of P and it's ilk that taking an online class will be a breeze with a rubber stamp at the end of term. They become really upset with me when I require them to actually put some effort into getting a good grade. I can't tell you how many times a student has accused me of "ruining his/her grade point average" because I gave a lousy grade to a lousy paper. I've also had a student tell me she paid her fees and therefore is owed a good grade: she did zero work, no homework, no final paper, but she really believed this is how the system works.
I also can't tell you how much some people in the university keep pushing for us to "give a break" to students who are receiving financial aid so that the money keeps rolling in. Needless to say, the faculty and most staff steadfastly refuse to lower standards. But the pressure is there.

Ok, woah, guys. Calm down. First, let's clarify a few things. There are plenty of online courses that are taken from reputable universities. Yes, it's very easy to assume that all online degrees come from places like University of Phoenix, but that's just not the case.

Unfortunately, this issue of time and ignorance comes into play. I use ignorance like it's supposed to be used, as in uninformed, not stupid. Many people don't know that there are many colleges that provide loads of online courses, so when they find they need a job that requires a degree, they try to find the quickest fit. Even if they are aware of the courses that are available to them (at community colleges, state schools, or local private institutions), they may not get accepted. Even online courses need to have caps on their class enrollment and it can cause many people to be turned away. People go to these "schools" because they feel they have no other option. And if they need a degree, it's all the same right?

The fact of the matter is that these schools sell the fact that these would-be students don't have to pay a dime upfront and can get all the loans their little hearts desire. The loans seem like a good investment at the time and they buy their degree for nothing down. Unfortunately, using the loans as a buffer, places like University of Phoenix can charge 31,000 a year (more than my private school education, by the way), because they students don't feel the brunt of the cost until the damage is done. Then when collections come and they're degree doesn't get them the high-paying career they promised, well... We get to pay.

It's a shame that many people feel forced into getting degrees like that, but the current expectations on the American adult are a little homogenized. I have a degree, my brother doesn't. My mom does, her brothers don't; my dad does, some of his brothers don't. And their parents certainly don't have degrees. Maybe because I was raised with the mentality that you can work hard and succeed I don't feel like a degree is always necessary, but I also don't face the scrutinies that people without degrees deal with. My brother is getting along just fine, but he likes what he's doing. He likes waiting tables and learning how to cook. Sadly, even though my job boils down to simple support work, he couldn't get a job here because he is without a degree.

Our society demands certain things of it's participants and it's a frustrating cycle. I just wish people were more informed as to how to make their own path work for them and not feel forced to take a short cut that ends up being more of a hindrance than help.

It really isn't anything new, it's just easier to pay too much for an education that isn't going to pay off.

When I was in a position to hire computer programmers and sys admins, I eventually learned to just chuck the DeVry graduates into the "don't bother" bin. I'm sure there were a few of them that managed to learn something, but they had been sold a bill of goods, that after graduating they were ready to step right into a high-paying job. I felt sorry for them. Their expectations too often far exceeded their capabilities.

YO: All of the Frontlines stream for free on the Frontline website. College Inc. is definitely one of the best ones, IMO.

Ok, I didn't mean to imply that all online courses are without merit. A lot of reputable Universities offer online courses for the flexibility and convenience (and I assume the trendiness plays a part in some of their decision making, too). I'm not aware of any 100% online colleges with great reputations but I don't claim to be an expert.

I stand by my sentiment that if you are borrowing outrageous amounts of money to attend an online college without a clear understanding of the risks and likely outcomes, you aren't making a good decision and everyone (including you/ except the college) would be better off if you didn't do it.

I had always wondered about the University of Phoenix. It certainly is the case that if something sounds too good to be true then it generally is. I think soundly investing in the quality of our public school educations is going to guarantee a more qualified and intelligent return than this place ever could. It's hard to talk about higher education reform when we still can't even manage to get it together with the K-12 system. Let's worry first about producing qualified candidates across the board and then we can figure out how to get them into college.

Whoops, that's supposed to say school ">" business.

Yossarian , groovy. I'm in total accord with your amended statement. Of course, I'm for better consumer education in pretty much all aspects of life.

Ah the college degree...the new high school diploma. Hearing things like "America will lead the world in college degrees by 2020" really makes by inner republican want to scream. "College is not for everyone, folks" is a statement that is profoundly accurate and is also one that sandbagged my high school government teacher, who was awesome.

i hate grammer nazis .

"College is not for everyone, folks"

No joke, man. A group of my friends all attended the same school. At least one of those guys had no business being in college. He had no interest in learning anything. You can still graduate and get a good job even with that attitude, but he wasn't like my other friends that basically felt that way but were still able to put in the effort. Needles to say*, he didn't last more than one year. But he seems to be doing fine now with a job that doesn't require a degree. I just wish people (myself included) would put more thought into what they want to get out of college. But yeah, the college degree is the new high school diploma.

* - That phrase, "so post" (I shit you not), and "extra circular activates" (go back, read that again) were all found within a paper one of my friends wrote in his Junior year. Spellcheck at its best.

Unfortunately, being stuck with $8K in student loan debt from attending 3 classes at U of P is Mistake Tax. You get what you pay for! At least it's not $80K in defaults.

Thanks, I'll check that website out! Yeah, that's very true - I'm definitely thankful because it would've been a surprised $40k bill to finish his degree... then I'd probably just move out of the country.

I'm confused. Define "for-profit" college.

I've changed my normal handle so I can be brutally honest.

I work in a field in which people really need master's degrees to go up. Even if they stay in the same spot for several years, they're sort of looked down on if they have not pursued and received their master's after that amount of time.

So you've got your tier 1, tier 2, and tier 3 schools in your state/region, right? Here's what happens: those bright enough to be accepted to the tier 1 schools get their master's degrees there. Those who cannot get accepted to tier 1 look at tier 2, tier 3 and then schools like U of P. They figure it's all the same, so why bother having to commute to classes in the evening? Why not just do everything on line, yay! And they let me borrow all the money? No money down? Awesome. They hardly look at the actual cost, what they'll be paying back. They just know if they're going to choose between some schlub school they have to actually GO to or doing something online, they'll take online, thankyouverymuch.

Then they finish. Now they are maybe $60-80K in debt. For a two year master's degree. Their pay goes up maybe $150 a month because of the degree (seriously). Of course the earlier in their career they do this, the more they make, but still. $60-80K IN DEBT. FOR AN EXTRA $150 A MONTH IN PAY. PEOPLE.

Also, another problem: let's say they want to use that freshly minted master's degree to move up rather than just be fairly impressive in their current position. Not gonna happen. You know why? The powers that be will see University of Phoenix on their application and will go "NOPE!" I've seen and heard it. I've heard the jokes about applicants who have U of P on there. They aren't hired/moved up. The end.

Master's from a tier 1 school? Absolutely. That's who they WANT. Tier 2 and tier 3 and you interview well and know your shit? Sure.

But U of P? Never. I've never seen someone move up with one of their graduate degrees. And now the person is paying back a shitload of money for the REST OF THEIR CAREERS.

I went to a tier 1 school. I finished $6,000 in debt. My repayment is $130 a month and my pay went up $150, so right now, financially speaking, it's not that great of a deal (ooooo, twenty dollars!). But I'll finish paying off that loan fairly quickly. And because it was a tier 1 school, I can move up easily (already have once). My peers who went the U of P route are SUNK. Seriously. They most likely will need to just default on the loan. And there you go.

One time when my family and I were going over the loans we were paying back for my undergrad degree (around $15,000, not nearly as much some people thank God), I joked that if it got too bad I could just kill myself and wouldn't have to worry about the money. Nelnet loans has a piece about death and suicide built in where if I die, my parents still have to pay the money!

Recent graduate here from UOP and I have to say, shame on you who judge. While you are on track about the exorbitant education fees, and I do agree with you in some respect, (education is expensive anywhere) I find it repugnant and abhorrent that many of you choose to judge and lump together graduates from certain online schools as bargain-basement illiterates. And how many of you who judge have degrees?

Like many women in the world, I was forced to flee a horrible marriage fraught with abuse and found myself in need of a job but could not procure a decent one without an education. So I worked two, sometimes three jobs while doing school online so that I could better myself while gaining back some semblance of a self-esteem in the meantime. Moreover, I live in an extremely remote area and UOP was exceptionally convenient for me. I graduated Magna Cum Laude from UOP and was granted a full scholarship to pursue my Master's Degree in Court Administration from Sacramento State. Not bad for one of the pre-supposed half-wits who attend online schools such as UOP.

UOP may not be Princeton or Harvard, but it gives many the opportunity for bettering themselves and their situation, whatever it may be. Many of those I had class with had lost their jobs and had families to support or worked full-time with families to support so they could give their children a better life while showing the importance of an education. And here you all are, pissing on someone's dream and goal to be the best they can be and educate themselves while doing so.

Also, you may think UOP akin to ACME University, but those who attend must meet the same requirements ALL universities demand like advanced mathematics such as statistics or advanced algebra.

Currently, I am a Court Administrator for a county in California and I do quite well, thank you. I was not hired immediately after graduation but that is to be expected the worst economy since the Great Depression. Yes, my bill is expensive, but unless one is blessed with a college fund or qualifies for grants, the money has to come from somewhere. I could never put a price on what my education has done for me. I am now a woman of independent, not-too-shabby means and I have UOP to thank for that.

So to all you who sit high atop your superior pedestals, please accept a much-deserved "Fuck you" from myself and all the "dregs" of humanity who aspire for something better and use UOP as a catalyst for it.

For your information, I worked HARD for every A I have earned at UOP. My friends who attended at the same time and did less work did not get A's and one of my teammates even failed a class. So do NOT put everyone in one group and say all of us that go there are lazy or stupid. Many students I have met have told me that they have to work harder at UOP than in their local community college. Also, I did get my Undergraduate and Graduate degrees there and my combined debt is only $67,000, not the outlandish amounts others have stated in this comment section or in the article. We also take final exams, do presentations, and write tons of papers, and do team assignments. Are they for profit? Yes! But, so what, they use the latest technology and they have experts that currently work in the field they are facilitating. Keyword, they facilitate, they are not teachers, they provide lectures, lead discussions, and educate you about what is really happening in business and not what is in an outdated textbook like a local college I attended had. Plus, our textbooks are electronic and are up to date. I am proud to be a University of Phoenix Alumni and all the haters out there should go try to accomplish getting a degree while working full time and raising a family!

To clarify my point, I'm not saying that everyone needs to go to grad school, but for many career fields, some of which you would never think are this way, a bachelors degree is simply no longer satisfactory. I know at the engineering firm where I work (when not moonlighting as an impoverished composer) of the people who have entered our graduate training program in the past 2 years, of the 30 or so folks I oversee, we only took on one graduate who didn't have a masters as a minimum.

It's just run poorly for that amount of money. If my guy didn't understand something, he'd email the professor for help and get told "Go ask your group." Then he'd ask his group to help explain something and they'd say "It's not our problem, go ask the professor." He'd ask his counselor, for help and she said "Sorry, work it out with the professor." No one cared whether he learned anything and it seemed like they were all incompetent. They basically just said "Sorry to see you go, here's your bill. K bye!"

I'm happy for people that were able to get degrees and better jobs because of it, but we had a really horrible experience and I'd hate for someone else to waste money like we did.

But, so what, they use the latest technology and they have experts that currently work in the field they are facilitating. Keyword, they facilitate, they are not teachers, they provide lectures, lead discussions, and educate you about what is really happening in business and not what is in an outdated textbook like a local college I attended had. Plus, our textbooks are electronic and are up to date.

How exactly does this work? How are they on the bleeding-edge of business, yet still find time to facilitate classes as at least a part-time job? Surely *something* has to give.... Not everyone who can teach can do, and not everyone who can do can teach. And those that have both skill sets are going to be in high demand.

Electronic textbooks are not necessarily any more up-to-date than printed textbooks. It takes time to write, not to print, these days.

Cindy, I'm glad you feel like you're getting something out of your $67,000 education, I really am. Although I choke on that cost because it's a hell of a lot more than I have saved for my teenager's education, so she DAMN well better plan on going to a state university. But when I *personally hear* a for-profit recruiter try to figure out how to get a paroled narcotics felon into their pharmacy tech program? I see where the motive is, and it's not to get you into a career.

Institutions of higher learning have a relationship with its students that extends beyond the learning process. Part of the admittance process, especially for Tier 1 colleges, tries to ascertain a particular applicant's sensibilities and how she or he will use their talents, coupled with an education, to understand how she or he will fit into the world after they graduate. I believe this because I was accepted at a top-tier school but, statistically, I was near the bottom of my class, so they must have seen some talent in me. I wish they'd tell me what it was they saw.

The problem I see with colleges like U of P is that they reduce this relationship to:

'You give us money, we give you a diploma. If the piece of paper is worth something or not, that's your problem'

The best of cases are people like Cindy J and Gistine, who know what they need from their education and can take advantage of an accessible online program. Others, attracted by the easy tuition money and who don't know what they're getting into (some might not even know the effort an education requires), fail, or worse, end up with a worthless diploma.

Slash and others, no, I need to clarify. By tier 1, I meant in state. NOT Ivy League! No one around here goes to an Ivy League school. Well, maybe a rare one here or there who can actually move to an Ivy League school for a while and gets a fellowship or something. But that's so rare as to almost be unmentionable.

In my field there are certain state universities that are known to have the better, more rigorous graduate programs. Those are tier 1. Then there are other state schools that are easier to get into, not as thorough, not as rigorous, the professors are not as highly esteemed in their field, etc.

Everyone gets into U of P in my area of graduate studies. That's been my experience. I have yet to find someone who didn't get in. Then they take on those exorbitant loans. It's ridiculous.

And yeah, if you could hire someone with a master's from the university of ______________ versus Medicore State College versus U of P, you're gonna pick that first one unless they're just a weirdo who doesn't get along with people. Your absolute last choice is the U of P graduate because again, in my field, the difference in their knowledge and skills is just.....obvious. Really obvious. Why would you hire or promote that person?

My cousin is enrolled at UoP, trying for a business degree. The really sad part: he nearly flunked out until I stepped in to help.

He is fairly average, and the assignments (at least the ones I helped him with) were quite simple. Unfortunately, my cousin is fairly computer illiterate and extremely lazy. I get the distinct feeling that he only signed on because he thought it would be easier than a face-to-face school. It breaks my heart really.

Me? I am around 80 grand in the red and I am still a couple of classes short of getting my B.S. While around here, my school is considered a big deal, I doubt many of you would even register it without mention of certain famous alumni. While I enjoyed some of the courses and people (especially my disability counselor), I still find that the education I was promised has yet to develop. And really, my interests don't really meld with those of the academic program.

My point? Yeah college isn't for everyone. You really have to consider if you even need it. And you definitely should not do it because you feel pressured to do so. If I had really considered my options in high school, instead of assuming college was right, I think things would have ended up a lot differently.

But I think the real message that should be stated isn't "College isn't for everyone" (still a good one though), but that "not everyone is a winner". Face it, the real source of the problem is this weird entitlement issue. Everyone thinks that because one or two people manage to find success one way, it means that anyone can do it. College, professional sports, Hollywood. For every gold medal, there are several empty necks. And that is okay. As it was said, if everyone won, then winning would lose all meaning. If people could be happy doing what they can do, instead of expecting to become the next Bill Gates, a lot of these issues and scams would evaporate.

I don't know. It is late, I am sleepy, and I just looked at my Sallie Mae bill. Fuck.

"And I have to look at my $17k bill and wonder if it was worth it."

You came out pretty unscathed and will have many years to pay that back. Some of your peers are graduating with five times that sum.

RE "Slash and others, no, I need to clarify. By tier 1, I meant in state. NOT Ivy League! No one around here goes to an Ivy League school."

Duly noted, thanks.

It's nice that some people have had a good experience with U of P, but it sounds like they're the exception. And however righteously indignant Cindy J and Gistine are about criticism of U of P graduates, apparently, U of P graduates do not have a particularly great rep among employers. There must be a reason for that.

Well, it's been an interesting comment thread, especially with the addition of a few UoP grads. And I'll admit to being a bit chagrined at the tone in my comments above but I stand by the overall sentiment that a majority of students who borrow large sums of money to attend on-line, for-profit schools are making a terrible mistake.

First, lets strip away all the unnecessary side arguments about grade inflation and relative merits of a degree from a traditional college (to quote Matt Damon: something you coulda got for a dollah fifty in late charges at the public library"). Obviously going to any college leads to a variety of possible outcomes. My criticism is just as relevant for someone who borrows $50,000+ to go to a traditional college and has no idea what they are going to do afterward. (Even if you do have a goal, borrowing that much money for college is crazy. There are cheaper alternatives. Back to the entitlement issue: not everyone gets to live on campus and live the college life for four years.)

My point, crudely made, was that a University of Phoenix diploma is not worth $60,000 or $90,000 dollars. There is clearly a stigma associated with it that it is a "lesser degree" which must be overcome by graduates in the job market. It's not impossible but I would say it is more difficult. Perhaps it is comparable to Community College Degrees, but those only cost, what, $3,000/ year? It's hard enough to justify paying 10x that for prestigious schools but I find it almost impossible to make the argument for University of Phoenix. If it's just a piece of paper to meet a requirement and your in-person interview is what matters then why spend so much on one from UoP? Especially when the stigma it carries can prevent you from getting an interview in a competitive job market?

Look, I'm happy (and, as I said, chagrined) to hear from people who have gone on to be successful after UoP. I just think you are the exceptions, not the rule. My comments were directed more at the people who are sold a false bill of goods (College can be easy & convenient, you will be able to get a good job, don't worry about the money.) I think they should be required to disclose completion rates, job placement rates, and average salaries of graduates to all applicants. Furthermore, I think the implications of those statistics should be addressed in financial aid loan counseling sessions (with an impartial adviser) before people are allowed to borrow tens of thousands of dollars. For every successful Pajiba-posting Phoenix alum how many people are there that flunked out or, worse yet, stuck around to finish the program and are now unemployable with monthly student loan payments that rival their rent and dwarf their car loans?

It's not just University of Phoenix, but it is especially University of Phoenix, who prey on people with less options and less advantages, who promote false hope and expectations, who encourage reckless and irresponsible borrowing, and who largely do not care about the outcomes of students as long as they get paid.

And since the school doesn't look out for you and lenders won't look out for you it's up the individual. Those who make bad decisions without considering the consequences are the ones I wouldn't trust working with or for me.

Honestly what bothers me most are the promises that these schools make. I had a young lady start at my company who was outraged that she wasn’t making 100k a year after completing a 6 month course. I just stared at her. Our higher ups barely made that and to expect that type of salary at 22 after taking these classes is ludicrous. But that is what she was promised. I always laugh at those commercials that say "a college graduate can earn over 100k more in their lifetime than someone with a high school diploma only". So a. they can potentially earn more and b. its 100k in their lifetime. If you work for 40 years that would be an extra 2500 a year or just over 200 a month, is that worth the 50k debt or more that they take on? If it sounds too good to be true, it usually is!

There are two schools of thought about higher education (alright, probably more, but for this comment there are two, ok?):

1. learning for the sake of learning is important

2. a degree is like the key to a door.

I believe in both. If you want to go into a career field that requires a degree, well obviously you need to get the key to that door. Otherwise you'll never open it. But learning for the sake of learning is an important, classic part of education and one I valued, as well.

Mr. Snuggie wanted me get a PhD in my field. I will not. The reasons are simple:

1. I don't care about the stuff behind that particular door.

2. The cost of the degree would not be returned in earnings in what is left of my career and in my particular career field.

I can do the research and study on my own, so the learning part is there for the taking.

So you want to know about UOP huh…and why anyone would spend that sort of money for an Online degree? Well, the answer is simple, they have no other choice. Most UOP students could not make it at a traditional college.

How do I know…because I taught part-time for UOP for almost 4 years. I say teaching, but that’s not really accurate. At UOP, the faculty are referred to “facilitators”. If you look up the definition of that word, you’ll find that it means someone who enables a process to happen. Faculty at UOP aren’t anybody anything…they just sort of herd the student-cats forward for 5 or 6 weeks until the end of the “course”.

UOP offers a service. It is a service for people who could not get into a regular college or who got into a regular college but for whatever reason could not succeed or were unable to finish. Now, that’s not a stab at anyone who had to drop out of college. I quit school for a year when my father died to help run the family business until my mother sold it. But the reality is for most people a degree is mandatory if you want to run your life and not let other people run it.

The average UOP student is dramatically undereducated. They are not required to submit SAT scores prior to enrollment so there is no vetting process. Their reasoning skills are among the lowest I’ve ever seen (and I’ve got a doctorate in education and have been teaching for 23 years). Students at UOP simply cannot write. And if you’re a facilitator who actually grades student efforts…you are hounded and harassed until you simply quit.

The average UOP student is in a pretty dead-end job and they see a degree as their one shot at breaking out. But, like most things in their life…they’re lazy. They don’t research the other opportunities for earning a degree. This whole “go to class anytime” appeals to their lazy-streak so they call UOP. They’re told that they’ll need a student loan to get thru school but it is easy to get. Did you know that UOP was caught enrolling homeless people as students? It’s true…they would go to the homeless shelters and tell street people how they could use the computer at the public library to do their schoolwork. But, how did the homeless people pay for their UOP education…student loans!

When a person applies for a student loan, it is ultimately the government that is on the hook to repay the money…did you know that. The federal government guarantees that the lending institution will get their money back with interest. UOP gets their money up front. It is the only school in the country that has more “financial aid” counselors than “academic” counselors”. The objective of “financial aid” is to push and push, and push students to cough-up as much money as possible before they just walk away…then, the student defaults on the loan and the bank goes to the government for its money.

And the really clever thing…it is not the student’s money, it is about taxpayer money. Let me say that again; UOP isn’t about education at all. It is about generating as much revenue (in the form of student loan money) as quickly as possible. UOP collects money in amounts and at a level that nobody in education ever dreamed of until the mid-80’s. And they will continue to collect it until Congress gets wise and stops this gravy train of taxpayer-funded student loan program.

Look at this math. UOP has around 200,000 students and the classes cost $1,800 each. The faculty teaching the course get anywhere from $950 - $1300 for the entire class and the average UOP class has 15 students. So each time UOP fires-up a class, their gross is roughly $25,000. Reports vary, but I’ve seen figures indicating at any given time, UOP has in the neighborhood of 500 classes starting each week. If these reports are correct, 500 X 25,000 = $12,500,000 a week gross to UOP. Somebody call Harvard and ask them if they have $12,500,000 coming in a week!

But it gets even better. About 95% of students who attend UOP are on student loans. To get a 4-year degree requires roughly 120 credit hours of schooling or 40 classes. That math reads 40 X 1800 = $72,000 for the cost of a 4-year degree at UOP. And let say that just half of the 200,000 people actually do their entire 4 year degree program at UOP; that 100,000 X 72,000 = $72 million, every four years.

See, if the student finishes and pays back their loan…great. But most don’t do that. And if the student defaults on the money they got from ABC bank, the taxpayers fit the bill. UOP doesn’t take a hit because they got their money up front when the students enroll in a class. You as a taxpayer take the hit.

And what happens to the students…a good number default and most never finish their degree. And if they do finish and the degree, what is it worth? Have you ever met anyone in a major position of trust and responsibility who graduated from UOP?

And what does UOP do with the money…well a few years ago, they paid $68 million for the right to name a new stadium out in Phoenix. It will be called University of Phoenix stadium for 10 years. Funny story, UOP had to threaten legal action against some TV and radio personalities because people kept calling it Cardinals stadium (a UOP employee told me that).

Anyone who enrolls in the University of Phoenix is a fool and an idiot. There are so many traditional schools that offer Online degrees, call one of them, take the time to learn about those programs. But never get involved in a “for-profit” institution of higher learning.

Since traditional schools are non-profit, they don't have as much money to spend on advertisement, unfortunately. When people are looking for a more convenient way to earn a degree, they think schools like UoP and Devry are their only options. There are hundreds of community colleges and universities around the country that offer degree programs completely online. Traditional schools even offer BSN programs online for RN's. It makes absolutely no sense to spend so much money on a for-profit school when you can spend less at a more reputable school. Texas has a website that lists all of the non-profit schools in the state which offer online programs. There is also another site that lists hundreds of traditional schools in the southern region which offer degree programs online. The only people who have to go to UoP, Kaplan, Devry, etc; are people who can't get into any traditional school. If you can't get accepted to a community college, then college is not for you.

I attended Axia College of UoP when I was 19 and dumb, but this was years ago. I let the telemarketers talk me into signing up with their school. Now that it's 2010, people have a lot more options when it comes to distance education. I attended UoP for about a year and a half. Their math courses were literally on the middle school level. In fact, my sister was in middle school at the time and laughed at my assignments. It bothered me that I wasn't learning anything new, and since I didn't just want a piece of paper, I opted to transfer to a community college. I even complained to UoP that their courses were not on the post-secondary level and they told me that their courses ARE at the community college level. So why am I paying over $300 per credit for an associates degree when I can pay $50 per credit at a community college? I found out about Central Texas College which caters to the military all over the world, but anyone can attend. As a Texas resident, I only paid $51 per credit and their credits transfer easily to any Texas University. UoP didn't even ask for a high school transcript or a GED transcript. Just think.....taxpayers are paying for high school drop-outs and developmentally disabled people to go to UoP. Even though UoP is fairly easy, these people will most likely fail or drop-out and default on their loans. I believe the government is now requiring for-profit schools to show records of how many of their students are getting employment in their fields of study and how much they are getting paid. If their records are unacceptable, they will be disqualified from receiving Title IV funding. That's one step in the right direction.

It is interesting to hear all this.

Hey guys I go to U of P and it's not as easy as you all think. I went to community college first, which was a breeze (in Lansing Mi) and when I enrolled in U of P I was slammed by how many papers I had to write. Sure, there are lax instructors, but there are lax instructors at regular colleges also. I didn't pay 31,000 a year, I paid 15,000 for a standard school year. Some U of P'ers pay that much because they take as many classes as they can, which means you pay more because you get done faster. I took me two years to earn my bachelors and I owe 31G almost exactly and I didn't have to take time off work, or pay for parking or books. I ended up saving money when I compare it to my state colleges. Since I got federal loans I only pay what I can afford back, after 25 years all is forgiven, and I have a four year degree. This college isn't for teenagers who are just starting out in the world, it is for adults already in their fields who hit corporate ceilings because they don't have a peice of paper that says bach on it. Yeah this college charges more than most, but they also do a lot of the paperwork for you and make sure you are going to class, that class is paid for and basically make it so you don't have to deal with all the stupid college stuff you would have to at a regular college. You pay for convience, which in my case was totally worth it.