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More Money, More Problems


Capitalism: A Love Story / Drew Morton

Film Reviews | September 23, 2009 | Comments (42)


Documentary filmmakers often rely on self-reflexivity to give their arguments more potency by acknowledging that their presentation is the product of a person, making it a subjective expression rather than an objective one. This is done with the hope of providing a more truthful account. Specifically, the documentarian acknowledges that he or she is the one holding the camera, splicing the film, forming the argument, and very often brings a moral, ethical, or ideological point of view to the evidence. In my experience as a film critic and novice scholar of documentary, I’ve found that this strategy can bring mixed results. In some cases, it’s all smoke and mirrors, a misdirection by the documentarian that, while it may be truthful to a degree, is more self-indulgent than revealing. In other cases, it’s brutally honest and can serve as a stepping-stone in the evaluation of a source for the sake of gaining knowledge or insight. Watching Michael Moore’s latest documentary, Capitalism: A Love Story (2009), and pondering the review I would have to write, I thought the best plan of attack would involve my own blend of self-reflexivity.

First off, I am a Cinema and Media Studies Ph.D. student at the University of California-Los Angeles. This should imply two pieces of information right off the bat. First, despite my career in the academy, my knowledge of capitalism as an economic and social system is slim at best. Sure, I’ve read excerpts of Adam Smith’s The Wealth of Nations and Karl Marx’s Capital, but I read them a long time ago and I’d be hard pressed to describe the intricacies of both theories if asked. Secondly, as a student of the humanities and an educator, I tend to value education, knowledge, and helping others. Thus, like most people who share my background and views towards life, I find myself swaying safely to the left. While I wouldn’t categorize myself as one, I’m pretty sure Fox News would call me a socialist, a communist, or a red. Despite these two pieces of information, it may surprise you to hear that I am not Michael Moore’s biggest fan. I know that may sound paradoxical. After all, those two pieces of information would make it seem as if I were a member of Moore’s ideal audience. Yet, while I can’t articulate why I find myself uncomfortable with his films with regard to economic theory, I can describe it in terms of documentary theory. Yet, this is not as simple as being the tale of how I’m uncomfortable with Michael Moore but how this discomfort was, for the most part, not elevated by Capitalism: A Love Story.

First, and this criticism goes back to Moore’s first film Roger & Me (1989), I sometimes find myself distrustful of Moore’s persona and his editorial hand. Specifically, in Roger & Me, Moore rigged his rhetorical deck of cards. As Pauline Kael noted in her review of the film, Moore depicted events out of chronological order, creating a new chain of cause and effect with the hope of producing an emotional response from an event that never actually occurred (specifically Roger Smith’s speech is linked to a family being evicted). I find myself distrustful of these techniques and that they ultimately hamper an argument’s sway with me. Perhaps this is a matter of personal preference, but I find Moore’s arguments best articulated by others beside himself or in evidence that does not directly involve him. In his case, self-reflexivity strikes me as a means of creating a persona. Hence my distaste for a scene in Capitalism in which Moore rents out an armored car and drives up to AIG, calling up to the CEO’s office on a bull horn, demanding a citizen’s arrest and that federal bailout money be returned to the U.S. Treasury. While I can acknowledge the humor inherent in the situation, I often feel that these antics are the cinematic equivalent to trying to kill a fly with a sledgehammer.

Thankfully, Capitalism, unlike Fahrenheit 9/11 (2004) or Sicko (2007), contains few of those moments. Moore, for the most part, allows each individual interviewee’s story sell his argument. That overall argument is that the form of capitalism embraced by America is a flawed system that really lacks any logical sense for its perpetuation. For instance, from the point of view of the Christianity, with whom the Republican Party (the party sympathetic to “private” or “free” enterprise) often aligns itself, capitalism is an evil that promotes greed and an inversion of priority. Individual welfare is now held with greater regard than the general welfare. In addition, despite the fact that America is a touted as a democracy, capitalism is often practiced via a monarchical system of rule (management). Through Moore’s choice of interview subjects, he creates a compelling argument against the evils of capitalism. After all, here’s a system which has become so distorted that blue chip corporations take out life insurance policies on even their youngest staff members, hoping to turn a profit in case of an untimely death. To Moore, the economic recession has only helped underline America’s version of capitalism has its problems. So why does it stick around?

Moore’s hypothesis on capitalism’s longevity should come as no surprise. In the end, the pure amount of currency in the system and the influence that currency brings keeps any alternative off the table. Moore’s prime example comes from the events of autumn 2008, as we watched as the media, former President Bush, and former Secretary of the Treasury Henry Paulson (former head of banking giant Goldman Sachs) tried to pass a bail out through the House of Representatives over the course of a weekend. The initial bill failed, thanks to frightened and angry phone calls from the general electorate. Yet, the bill, for better and for worse, made its way through shortly thereafter thanks to the efforts of lobbyists and a number of scared politicians facing re-election. Moore then posits that there are two routes that have been taken historically to rectify economic unbalance. For the first and more frightening option, Moore looks at post-WWII Europe and Japan, who were capable of re-building their socioeconomic structure courtesy of post-war environment dominated by ruin. The second and less-frightening option Moore posits is organized grass roots activism.

This second option brings me to the final characteristic of Moore’s work that I’ve found myself feeling conflicted about: his mode of address. Much like Bill O’Reilly on Fox News or Keith Obermann on MSNBC, Moore produces an echo effect for the spectator. In other words, the people watching O’Reilly or Moore tend to agree with the viewpoint expressed and all the text does is re-enforce that opinion while providing talking points. Like his previous efforts, Capitalism does not offer a significant step away from this mode of address. It’s directed at liberals, who made up the audience I viewed the film with, even going as far as pressing them to cheer when presented with a mocking representation of George W. Bush giving a speech to drum up the fear of an economic recession. Did I support George W. Bush and his policies? Absolutely not, but I could not help but ask myself what real social change Moore’s films offer. Personally, I would tend to shoot more for the independents and those in the middle of the political spectrum. Odds are that those are audience members who can be appealed to and have not yet become hard-wired into their voting preferences.

I asked myself this question repeatedly throughout Capitalism, but I concluded that it might be too late for Michael Moore to learn new tricks. Unlike the saying, it’s not that Michael Moore is too old to change his methods; it simply wouldn’t help. After all, here’s a documentarian who has already been so thoroughly branded “LIBERAL” (Michael Moore Hates America made its debut in 2004) that to change his mode of address probably wouldn’t help appeal to an unsympathetic viewer. I think Moore realizes this bind and the conclusion to the film pushed me to view it admirably overall, despite my initial misgivings. At the end of the film, Moore seems to realize that despite his use of rhetoric and evidence, he will not be able to convert the non-believer. Yet, that is not to say his causes or his films lack the power to affect social change. Moore pleas at the end of the film for those sympathetic to his views to take to the streets and begin a working class revolution with the objective of shifting political and economic power back to the bottom 99 percent of American society. In the end, we can only save ourselves, propel social change, and hope to enlighten those who disagree with us by our own political actions.

Drew Morton is a Ph.D. student in Cinema and Media Studies at the University of California-Los Angeles. He has previously written for the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel and UWM Post and is the 2008 recipient of the Otis Ferguson Award for Critical Writing in Film Studies.


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Comments

This was a very good review, I'm completely at a loss for words, except saying that this was really damn good. I know it doesn't help, but nothing needs to be said. Nice one, Drew.

Posted by: George at September 23, 2009 3:13 PM

Moore pleas at the end of the film for those sympathetic to his views to take to the streets and begin a working class revolution...

And that's just the problem. There aren't enough of us (the damnable liberal, socialist, fascist reds!) who are willing to storm the streets, me included. We say that we hate Capitalism, yet we love our cheap flat screen TVs and we'll be damned to get off our Crate & Barrel couch because we just want to watch Dancing With The Stars while drinking Bombay and Sapphire martinis (extra dry, regular olives please). All thanks to MasterCard™.

Posted by: Agent Scully at September 23, 2009 3:26 PM

I like the way you approached this, Drew. By now, most people are aware of Moore's film slants, and people seem to squarely fall into the love him or hate him categories. I fully expect this, as all threads involving Michael Moore eventually do, to descend into a contemplation of Michael Moore rather than the film. So I'll get it started - I love him for his humor and his ability to bring to light some thoughts and ideas that many people might not get to on their own. I have known such people, so I know this is not an anomaly. I also love him for being willing to speak out.
I do plan to see Capitalism, I'm sure I'll enjoy it, and I'm sure Moore will be skewered or adored as usual.

Posted by: Cindy at September 23, 2009 3:32 PM

My problem with Moore has always been that he has a point, if only he would make it. His tactics don't really do anything for anyone not already in agreement with him. A better documentarian will be first concerned with presenting the truth and not using misleading tactics, and secondly concerned with enlightening the audience. It seems Moore is more about providing laughs or outrage to those who are already so much in his camp that they won't care if facts are fudged or the film was misleadingly edited.

Posted by: Bd at September 23, 2009 3:40 PM

Drew, I'm becoming a huge fan of your reviews. Great work, seriously. I may have to consider seeing this one. But as one of Pajiba's conservative readers it makes my skin crawl whenever Michael Moore gets on film and screams that this is his movie and that these are his ideas. Just let it be a documentary, Moore. But, if you say he's kept it a little more subdued, I may be able to handle it.


Posted by: Agent Scully at September 23, 2009 3:26 PM

Thank you for saying this. It confounds me how many people I know who blab on and on about how disgusting capitalism is and blah blah blah. And yet, people who have the means to not purchase from Wal-Mart and other giant corporations who thrive on the benefits of capitalism continue to patronize such industries. Seriously guys, practice what you preach. People might respond more to a "liberal agenda" if you actually incorporated it in your daily lives voluntarily as opposed to encouraging the government to mandate it.

Oh hey, here comes the angry mob.

Posted by: Kayanne at September 23, 2009 3:45 PM

Good point, Agent Scully.

It sent me off on a whole other train of thought than the review initially did. I think the problem is that the true underclass in our society are so disenfranchised and un-voiced that we're still a long way from the working class revolution, even though we kind of need it NOW.

It reminds me of the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, when a lot of people were saying things like, "Why didn't they [the people who stayed in their houses or huddled in the Superdome] just evacuate when they were told to? Drive away? Get on a bus?" Even our country's lower middle class can't really conceive of being so poor that you don't have a car and can't afford a Greyhound bus ticket. And have no relatives or friends who live in another state and could put you up.

The people who really should be taking to the streets and rising up can't shell out $9.00 or $11.50 or however much tickets are in your town to go see a Michael Moore movie and be inspired. The people who really need health care the most, and can't afford to pay even very low premiums, also can't go and shout at town hall meetings because they're working three jobs and besides, there's no bus to the meeting hall. And the people who really need change the most aren't posting on Pajiba in the middle of the day, because unlike me, they don't have cushy white-collar jobs that they're not in constant fear of losing for goofing off on a silly website. See? Self-reflexive!!

Anyway, power to the people! (I'm a liberal socialist commie pinko at heart, but I do like my flat-screen TV.)

Posted by: MM at September 23, 2009 3:46 PM

Damned fine review, Mister Morton.

"My problem with Moore has always been that he has a point, if only he would make it."

No. Shit. Also, I think he'd have a little more... uh, I dunno the exact word I'm looking for here... I just wish the guy would, for once, approach those he's trying to skewer/interview without looking like such a goddamed SCHLUB. I know in the grand scheme of the film, his appearance doesn't really make a difference, but for the love of God, Moore - YOU'VE BEEN WEARING THE SAME CLOTHES FOR THE PAST DECADE AND A HALF! Maybe he'd be taken a little more seriously if he'd dress somewhat appropriately before shoving a camera in someone's face. I mean Christ, you can see the guy coming from two blocks away...

Executive/CEO: Hey everyone, what say we go get something to eat? How about we try that... hold on... Is that? Jonas, get over here - is that schlubby looking, unshaven... Yup. It's Michael Moore... BACK INSIDE EVERYONE! Looks like a delivery kind of day...

Posted by: Skitz at September 23, 2009 3:49 PM

Dr. Drew, I think it can be agreed upon that Michael Moore's films, like all documentaries and most films, can be considered propaganda tools to get across a particular message, even if that message is it's cool to be a drug-addled moron.

Posted by: bignick at September 23, 2009 3:53 PM

Yeah, really I hardly even class Moore's documentaries as "documentaries" anymore. They're so specifically geared to an audience they seem to have been focus-grouped before they were even shot. It's propaganda for smug, back-patting liberals.

I, on the other hand, am a refreshing liberal sweetheart.

Posted by: jkate at September 23, 2009 3:55 PM

You'll just have to believe me when I say that I am not a Republican, but my problem isn't with Moore's slants, it's with him being completely dishonest.

I've enjoyed some of his work, but he obfuscates, uses horrible appeals to emotion and relies on the economic, psychological and political ignorance of his audience. As the reviewer intimated, these films are not, ultimately, informative. If anything, they are the opposite. We arrive further into our own prejudices and further away from an honest discussion.

Which is what frustrates me about Moore. I honestly think he was on to something about the culture of fear in America in Bowling For Colombine, but then he veered off into implying that Northrup-Grunman was responsible for the Colombine shootings (along with other crimes against reason); despicable.

Posted by: imk at September 23, 2009 4:11 PM

Amen Agent Scully.

I am excited to see this, I don't care if you want to call it a documentary or a propaganda piece. The socialist in me eats this stuff up.

Posted by: DemonWaterPolo at September 23, 2009 4:18 PM

Well done, Drew. Much more even-handed and thoughtfully discussed than I would have been able to produced if I was asked to provide comment on the topic of Michael Moore.

In other words - good review.

Posted by: dsbs at September 23, 2009 5:15 PM

I don't like his faux-documentarian legerdemain. His editorial dishonesty makes him no different than the wingnuts.

This is what makes him more of a propagandist than a documentarian.

Posted by: Recondite at September 23, 2009 5:55 PM

Good review, though, to be honest, I'm about as likely to see this as I am likely to sit through an episode of Glenn Beck's show. Now, I must rant.

I am an economics PhD student, and am currently studying all the wonderful intricacies of markets both free and planned, though I'm probably more of a free-market guy, philosophically speaking. Three years of studying have led to me possessing a ridiculously low tolerance for bullshit, specifically the brand served hot and fresh by the likes of Beck and Moore. They advocate market-based solutions that aren't market-based or attack a free market plan that is more socialist than capitalist. Their arguments are inconsistent, illogical, and they jeopardize the theories, work, and philosophies upon which they stand.

If you want to be really informed, read some Marx, Hayek, or Friedman - they've all produced books that are meant for those who are unfamiliar with calculus. You might hate what they have to say, but at least your getting the theory from someone who has a genuine view of society, as opposed to these ideological hacks who need you to cheer for them in a movie theater so that they can make stay relevant.

Also, in its most ideal form, capitalism is closer to anarchy than monarchy.

/rant

Posted by: jiggity at September 23, 2009 6:16 PM

Moore lost me from the get go because Roger and Me was a gross misrepresentation of GM. He blames GM for the problems of Flint, Michigan rather than the city itself.

GM and the AUW created a job banks program back in 1984 -- 1984!! -- where the employee still gets 95% of his pay NOT TO WORK.

I live in California where there was a plant in Van Nuys that closed around 1991. Those people just had to show up once a week or agree to take computer class in order to continue receiving those payments.

And when they were working, they received a very good wage. Even now a GM worker without so much as a high school diploma can make 65K a year for being a parts picker.

When the plant in Flint closed the local government wasted money on trying to turn the city into a tourist destination, and government corruption and incompetence expedited its demise. The GM employees no longer had a reason to live there so they moved out, leaving a housing market in the dumps, so the non-GM people had their home values plummet leading to foreclosures and door-to-door evictions by the Sheriff.

As recently as 1999, GM kept a plant in Flint, but why was GM expected to keep that city alive over one in Tennessee or Indiana... Even though the company was hemorraging money should they have just kept producing cars and sending them directly to the trash when there are not enough buyers and Toyota can build cars with better quality and for less money due to less employee wages?

Posted by: L.O.V.E. at September 23, 2009 7:03 PM

First, great review Morton. I'm an unabashed fan of your work and this is a great example of why.

Second, I have found myself getting caught up in the storytelling that Moore does. It IS compelling. I'd call myself a liberal, but not a big huge flaming one. I can be remarkably moderate in many areas, but his storytelling still intrigues me when I get caught in the flow.

I do know a guy, an old friend, who watched Sicko when it first came out and his views were actually changed by seeing it. He was and is a Republican (though seems more weakly commited to this by the day), but after seeing Sicko he did some seriously exhaustive research into the whole topic (spent about a year obsessed with it, seriously) and is now fully on the side of health care for all, fuck any other "solution." It's shocking, really. At first I thought he was kidding. This has caused him no end of grief in his local Republican party, of course.

I say all this to illustrate through anecdote that it *does* happen. Maybe not often, but it does happen.

I'm not much into the topic of this one. I don't think capitalism is a horrible evil thing on the face of it, nor do I think it's the BEST ECONOMIC SYSTEM EVER AND SHOULD BE THE ONLY ONE FOREVER AMEN! as some people seem to. It's like dark chocolate or a good port--best in moderation. Best when it does not get so huge as to smush others. I'm afraid we have the big smushing people kind in this country and don't really know of any solutions. I kinda don't think Moore knows any solutions, either.

By the way, if you read his books you'll find he does not identify himself as a liberal. For whatever that's worth.

Thanks again, Drew.

Posted by: Snuggiepants the Deathbringer at September 23, 2009 8:22 PM

bignick up there is right. ALL documentaries are propaganda slanted in whichever way they choose. Usually due to length, the argument shown is either presented entirely one-sided or with little of the opposing view included. Hence, unless the viewer is completely against the film's subject matter (and why would you then be watching the film?), one usually emerges agreeing with the filmmaker's perspective - even if it is manipulated BS (like "reality" TV).

As others have pointed out above as well, filmmakers like Moore can easily point out issues but never offer solutions. Who can't do that? We all know America's current form of economy is screwed up beyond believe, but how is it changed or fixed?

In short, it can't nor ever will be. Government exists solely to protect business interests. It doesn't intend to help common citizens, unless it is done by accident. Health care reform is not being attempted to help those poor uninsured souls, it is being done because some corporation out there will profit IMMENSELY from its passage. The Wall St. bailout occurred for the same reason.

You want to change the system, Michael Moore? Overthrow the government. That is the only solution.

Posted by: B-Unit at September 23, 2009 8:38 PM

Actually, I'm looking at Moore on Larry King right now and he's cleaned up a bit, wearing a jacket and tie.

And a bright red baseball cap.
---
"with the objective of shifting political and economic power back to the bottom 99 percent of American society."

Have you SEEN those people? The ones watching "American Idol" and eating at McDonald's and shopping at Wal-Mart? Are they REALLY the people you want running the country? They'd make Sarah Palin look like a Mensa member.

How, exactly, would the lower classes foment a revolution today? Take up arms against the government? How long would that last? I'm being serious. How do you stage a revolution in 21st century America?

Posted by: , (the commenter formerly known as bucdaddy) at September 23, 2009 9:07 PM

This movie will not do well because,
ironically, its bottom line supports
the evil economic system it decries.

Posted by: Thom at September 23, 2009 9:12 PM

Excellent review Drew.

A’la Fox News, Moore’s brand of polemic milks the sympathies of those who agree instead of seeking to inform those who disagree through honest application of reason. It’s a rallying point for like-minded people, but beyond preaching to the choir, what is really achieved? I suppose it is nice to have someone running counter spin to the propaganda we see every day, but it is still spin and as such dilutes the power of his otherwise vital arguments.

How’s health care reform going post Sicko? (the stock price of the health insurance firms over the last few months suggest the market aint worried?) Have the government policies towards Iraq changed since Fahrenheit 911? (the troop drawdown timelines of Bush & Obama are virtually identical). The military industrial complex seems to be going ok post Bowling for Columbine. Does this film make anything of the fact that the current administration is following the Bush bailout policies virtually to the letter, or that it’s treasury department is also stacked with ex Goldmanites?

Maybe social change is asking too much of a mere movie, so here’s a smaller question: to what extent do his films inform the current debates about these issues? Is Moore quoted as a reliable source when arguing for universal health care? Do people regularly cite his argument to make the case for urgent reform of gun laws?

Earnest appeals to revolution are all well and good, but that’s not the way these things start. As Agent Scully implied, revolution starts with a pressing urge for change, like denial of basic needs- food, clothing and shelter or worse. For as long as the balance of haves to have nots remains manageable, nothing Moore says will make a scrap of difference.

If the value of the facts is diluted by spin and obfuscation, what are we left with? A propaganda film that exploits the revolutionary fantasies of it’s fan base that is dismissed by it’s ideological opponents as “a Michael Moore film”.

Snuggiepants- great story, if only it happened more often. Maybe it is the sort of change Moore hopes to effect, but I don’t have faith that enough people would be as motivated as your Republican friend to seek their own facts rather than simply accept or dismiss what is served up to them. An unfortunate side effect of emotional manipulation is that you tend to get an emotional reaction more often than an intellectual one.

Posted by: Squirrelgripper at September 23, 2009 9:39 PM

"Keep Fucking that Chicken" isn't so funny when the bottom 99.9% are chickens, is it?


Regardless of whether you're "Left" or "Right" the System fucks nearly everyone now, for the benefit of a few mega banks & corporations: a financial Mafia & the economy nothing more than a giant Tyson factory.

It's getting to the point where even the lower rungs of the rich classes will fall prey to it. Endless growth that's like a cancer on society.

Auto-cannibalization.

Keep Fucking that Chicken & turn on the deep fryer.

Posted by: oskar at September 23, 2009 9:59 PM

Hey all,

Thanks for the kind words and sorry I haven't been able to respond in depth. I'm back to school this week and have TA orientations and the like drawing on all of my free time.

Love,

My in-laws have a lot of family who have worked at GM (in California, Michigan, and Wisconsin). As members of management and the general floor team, they have all mentioned how the union stopped making concessions. I think its a bit of both. While I'm a democrat, I've had nothing but trouble with unions. They've never stuck up for me in pay disputes but have been more than willing to take my dues or bill me for unpaid dues, despite the fact that I did not feel represented (that was when I worked for CVS Pharmacy). It's hard to find any solution to this bind, but those co-ops MM showed in the film seemed very attractive!

Posted by: Drew Morton at September 23, 2009 11:02 PM

I never did find this kind of thing enlightening. To convince the thoughtful unconvinced, first you have to be an honest broker. Sadly, Moore's work isn't all that entertaining either. He started out where Bill Maher ended up - so caustic about his positions that he makes even those who agree uncomfortable.

Most of it is just more gas on the "those people suck" bonfire. It's the same fire fed by the jingoists of all persuasions. They just toss their inflammables from the left, or the right. And the payoff for them is actually the blaze.

There aren't enough of us (the damnable liberal, socialist, fascist reds!) who are willing to storm the streets, me included. ...

You miss the point. What's a way to do things - say economic activity - that is fed by what people will actually do, not the mumbling aspirations of their waffled intentions? Put a right-thinking overseer in charge, and who watches the watcher? Everybody wants the freedom for our guy(r) to do what we all know is right(tm). Yet, that's true for all values of "our" and "right." Worse, collect that power and it can be, will be, hijacked by other folks. Indeed, the power itself attracts them.

The problem with Plato's philosopher-king is where do you get one, and once in place, how do you keep them thus?

Meanwhile, an educated citizenry is far harder to hoodwink, for all values of hoodwinkery. So, along with jiggity's suggestions, go read The Replblic by Plato. Read The Worldly Philosophers for a pretty good intro to a lot the thinking on economics through history. Read The Armchair Economist for a collection of really accessible essays - they were originally magazine articles - each looking at a purchasing or policy decision with the tools economists use.

And if you really want to make your head spin, read von Mises for a taste of what's now called "Classical Liberalism", what "liberal" meant when the term was coined.

Posted by: BierceAmbrose at September 23, 2009 11:13 PM

As members of management and the general floor team, they have all mentioned how the union stopped making concessions.

While I don't wish to discount the firsthand experiences of you and your family, Drew, the union made the following massive concessions:

1) Suspended the jobs bank (after its true purpose -- allowing for temporary layoffs during downturns while keeping experienced workers in town once they were again needed -- was sullied by anecdote and propaganda)

2) Agreed to take over the administration of the pension fund, and then suspended the lump sum payment due from the manufacturers that was negotiated in good faith

3) Created a two-tiered compensation plan, in which new hires were paid more in line with the foreign auto companies' US manufacturing plants

All this began happening years ago, prior to the general economic downturn. Yes, some writing was on the wall, but it's just not accurate to state the unions did nothing.

Posted by: sansho1 at September 23, 2009 11:30 PM

BTW, both Esquire and The New Yorker have done lengthy articles in the past month about the AIG and banking crises and near worldwide financial meltdown last year. You'd probably get way more of a picture of how the money world works from them than you would from this movie, because there's, you know, actual reporting involved.

If anyone's interested.

Posted by: , (the commenter formerly known as bucdaddy) at September 23, 2009 11:50 PM

I read the New Yorker piece -- it was very well done, and James Surowiecki's Financial Page has been required reading all through the current debacle.

Posted by: sansho1 at September 23, 2009 11:53 PM

Thanks for the response, Drew.

Its easy to hate on the big corporation, but Unions are big corporations too. And the problem that I have had with them is that they often seem much more interested in protecting their peace of the money pie then actually pursuing the best interests of their workers or trying to establish a true symbiotic relationship with the company.

The same can be said for Moore himself. He was actually happy to see GM fail. If he wanted all those workers to be better off, why would he want GM to fail? And he acts like GM's bankruptcy somehow proved he was right, when its failure actually proved he was wrong.

Which finally brings me to this movie hating on capitalism. Companies like GM and Ford have been the closest thing to pseudo-socialist policy ever in America.

GM paid people full wages NOT to work. It gave them tremendous retirement and health benefits. They basically had there own social security system set up that came crashing down when all those workers who were hired in the 60's retired after thirty years.

The Union made sure bad workers stayed employed. It prevented performance-based job retention in favor of seniority. Wages for low educated workers increased while profits decreased.

Its easy to point to some executive in his big office and say that jerk doesn't deserve to make 5 mil a year for a company losing its lunch. I agree. But the union collectively have done the same thing.


Unions overall have deteriorated over the years, but some are still very strong.

I don't have a problem with unions, per se. Never been in one and never had to fight with against one.

They certainly were important back when our economy was factory driven. Our economy is now service driven, and its only those unions that have real power; such as teacher, actor and nurse unions.

Posted by: L.O.V.E. at September 23, 2009 11:55 PM

TCFKB- Matt Taibbi's work in Rolling Stone and his blog on True Slant on Goldman Sachs has been pretty interesting. His latest on health care reform is pretty eye opening too, thats online now. I refuse to buy the mag, Matt T is about the only thing RS has going for it.

Posted by: Squirrelgripper at September 24, 2009 12:02 AM

I should mention that the one time I worked in a place that attempted to unionize, I voted against it. I was at Amazon from 1999-2001, and whispers of outsourcing began in autumn 2000. Some guys from India began being escorted around, and the company line was that they were there merely to observe and cull some of our best ideas for replication at some Indian-based companies.

That...didn't fly. Soon afterward we were approached by a group who wanted to represent us. So I went to a meeting that was big on rabble-rousing but short on solutions (such as, how does unionization prevent outsourcing). Add the fact that this org had never negotiated a contract, and I voted nay.

Well, we did our usual yeoman work over the 2000 holidays (you haven't lived until you see all five lines on your phone lit up by the parents of little Johnny and Jordan, whose Christmas you've ruined), and the hammer came down on Feb 15, 2001. Our jobs were India-bound.

We were offered a pretty decent severance -- three full months as lame ducks, plus $5K and a few shares of Amazon stock. Then, for our last two pay periods in May, we were all given a surprise 20-30% raise. So that was cool, right up until we saw the memo from Jeff Bezos to the shareholders, which boasted of the savings to be realized by sending the jobs overseas, using our brand-new wages as the point of comparison. Real nice, Bezos.

Posted by: sansho1 at September 24, 2009 12:09 AM

B-Unit said "Government exists solely to protect business interests."

This is absolutely the problem and the difference of Americans v. Europeans. I'm European and I have always trusted the government to protect me. And my government in Europe did. But living in America it's completely the opposite. Americans trust corporations and are afraid of government. And now, more than ever, government serves the business, not the people.

Posted by: Agent Scully at September 24, 2009 8:28 AM

Agent Scully, you have always trusted government to protect you? Government's have been murdering their own citizens, and the citizens of other governments, for thousands of years. And if not not declaring war on other nations or purging their own, governments busy themselves with spying on their citizens, or depriving them of individual liberty for a wide number of offenses against the state, like, for example, speaking ill of the government. I would suggest that anyone who trusts government to protect them has completely ignored the lessons of history.

I am a political independent, but favor extremely limited government for this reason. You may think Wal-Mart is the definition of evil, but Wal-Mart can't draft me and subject me to foreign conflict, Wal-Mart can't send me to a concentration camp, Wal-Mart can't read my emails and listen in on my phone calls, Wal-Mart can't tell me what I can and can't put in my own body, and Wal-Mart can't send me to prison for putting the "wrong" thing in my own body. What they can do is sell me consumer products that I may or may not want at a competitive price.

Finally, I am always amused when anti-capitalist works are produced, and profit, under the very system that they attack. So while watching this movie we should ask - "how was this project financed? From lenders, perhaps? People or organizations willing to risk capital in hopes of a return? Was the production insured? Who sold the insurance? An insurance agent and company willing to risk insuring a production in hopes of a return? Who is distributing the movie? A company willing to risk distribution in hopes of a return? Who is actually showing the movie? A theatre company willing to risk showing movies in hopes of a return? And all of these companies are made up of thousands of employees who make their living making these companies run.

And how will everyone make that living? By convincing consumers, in a competitive marketplace, to spend their money on this product. So I somehow doubt that I will be allowed to view this anti-capitalist movie for free.

Now, the alternative to all of this risk-taking and investment in hopes of a return is a state sponsored movie, wherein the film maker could submit their script to the minister of film, and then some agency could make a decision on whether to make it or not (of course after deleting any criticisms of the government) and then the government (i.e. taxpayers) would pay for it. Like a state run news agency - only for entertainment!

So in the end, I do not trust governments, I trust the collective intelligence and decision making power of us, individual people. And that collective intelligence and decision making ability is the essence of a free market economy.

Posted by: Patrick at September 24, 2009 9:18 AM

I guess I should have explained a bit more. When it comes to corporation v. government, I was always inclined to go with governemnt. I do not mean that I think government is amazing and I trust them completely, I am just more trusting in them than for-profit CEOs. In America, I have noticed that most people go with corporation. It's such a strange concept to me, as I have grew up on the opposite end.

Yes, some forms of government can be awful, but I'd rather trust in (good) government than "the collective intelligence and decision making power of us, individual people." Maybe you do not recollect the last person that this collective intelligence voted into office.

Posted by: Agent Scully at September 24, 2009 10:28 AM

Oh brother.

Agent Scully, you have always trusted government to protect you? Government's have been murdering their own citizens, and the citizens of other governments, for thousands of years.

Pick a societal construct that hasn't done similar. Seriously, pick one. You say this like it is endemic of government rather than people. To twist a famous saying: governments don't kill people, assholes in governments kill people.

You may think Wal-Mart is the definition of evil, but Wal-Mart can't draft me and subject me to foreign conflict, Wal-Mart can't send me to a concentration camp, Wal-Mart can't read my emails and listen in on my phone calls, Wal-Mart can't tell me what I can and can't put in my own body, and Wal-Mart can't send me to prison for putting the "wrong" thing in my own body.

Drafting: As the hippies like to remind us constantly, there is no draft anymore.

Concentration Camps: Well, that one I might give you. Then again, it is a bit more involved than simply "you look like them".

Email/Call Spying: Wal-Mart might not, but those nice telecom companies that are part and parcel of that free-market economy certainly can and did. In fact, it was the main source of the spying the government did. Oh and don't forget cookies, adware, spyware, pop-ups, shareware, etc.

Body Use: The government can't either. Unless you mean the occasional smoking ban or the FDA telling you that maybe you shouldn't eat that tainted spinach. Or maybe you mean something like weed or something? Oh poor weed due, he can't toke up whenever he wants. boo the hell hoo. I support legalization because it would bring in needed tax dollars and save on law enforcement costs, not because I care about somebody getting blazed without getting hassled by The Man.

Oh and while Wal-Mart may not make you do those things, and may bring you those nice goods at low prices, what about the thousands of people who have to suffer for it? Their lives and livelihoods are worth a $5 sweatshirt?

So in the end, I do not trust governments, I trust the collective intelligence and decision making power of us, individual people. And that collective intelligence and decision making ability is the essence of a free market economy.

Hmmm, isn't our current government supposedly created by the same? You know, the one you don't trust? I mean, lobbyists and CEOs are still people, right? So what makes you think the free market would be any better? If anything, the free market would do as it has always done: motivate the less ethical people involved to pull whatever bullshit they wish to make more ducats, removing any real semblance of a "free" market.

Lastly, and this is the kicker, the only reason governments get away with bullshit is because the oh-so intelligent decisions made by us individual people let them. Even the most vicious, bloodthirsty, veritable Antichrist of a dictator can be brought low once the people realize he can only be given power, not take it. So if your government isn't up to snuff, it isn't because government itself is bad, it is because regular-ass people don't hold them to task.

Posted by: Vermillion at September 24, 2009 10:28 AM

Caveat: my father is one of the reviled retired autoworkers. High school diploma, army service, 25 years at GM in the UAW with retirement at 50 with a pension and full medical benefits for him and my mother. We had a decent house, two cars, a pool, a decent yard, and spent a month at the beach (nowhere swanky, but still) every summer. This was with four kids. He always hustled a second job and tons of overtime and my mother worked, but I never felt we were on the financial precipice. I know for a fact these days are over, but should they be?

I've got to say that I find it fucking pathetic that people begrudge blue-collar workers a decent living, particularly when execs at FAILING companies get millions and millions of dollars in BONUSES on top of their salaries. L.O.V.E. (sorry to name names, but I must) pointed out that some GM workers make $65K with just a high school diploma. So fucking what? I'm sure that's after either years of service or many, many hours of overtime, but give me a break. At the risk of sounding out of touch, these days $65K isn't that much money. Crow all you want about how teachers, NGO employees, etc. make less, but autoworkers fought long and hard and made many concessions to make those wages and get those benefits. My father, for example, was often on strike (without pay) and often got lower wages to get a contract through for the benefit of all workers. The notion that union members are living high off the hog is a myth. They simply appear to be living that way compared to the pittances their compatriots at Wal-Mart etc. receive.

If this recession should teach us anything, it's that unions are the only worker protection out there for your average person in this country. Labor sits on the damn board in some of our peer countries (though that's looking more like Bangladesh than, say, Sweden, these days) and their workers have a hell of a lot more protection than ours do.

Posted by: samantha t at September 24, 2009 1:25 PM

This is a fucking joke, right?

Moore isan even bigger capitalist and lover of capitalism then the capitalists he attacks in this latest vomit on film put out by him.

Make no mistake, this isn't a documentary about capitalism, just like Roger & Me wasn't about Roger Smith and how he and GM fucked over Flint Michigan, just like Farenheit 9/11 wasn't about Bush and 9/11.

Every movie Moore has ever made is truly, at it's core all about Moore and his ever expanding ego.

He makes me ashamed to be a liberal and a Democrat.

Print this, shitshakers.

Posted by: Fappy McFapper at September 24, 2009 3:33 PM

samantha, your dad retired at 50-years-old, and is making enough in retirement to not have to work for the rest of his life which will likely be until he is 80. Meaning, he doesn't have to work for nearly half his adult life and GM was set to spend more years paying not to work than to work. I don't begrudge him that AT ALL. I just don't want to ever hear him bitch about how unfairly GM treated him.

My problem is that these workers complain as if they have been paid minimum wage. Making over $30 an hour to do what most people in their 20s do for $12.50, which is what people get paid by foreign car companies, put GM at a significant disadvantage. Union workers at GM think because they worked for a particular company for some odd years that they are ENTITLED to keep that job until they decide to retire.

Its a completely outdated thought. Does anyone in their 20's or 30s think like that? Companies are not welfare.

Posted by: L.O.V.E. at September 24, 2009 6:13 PM

a significant disadvantage.

Said disadvantage being the result of a paradigm shift which occurred long after most of those GM wages were determined -- that being, the moneyed interests convincing the public at large that workers did not merit a seat at the table at which the pie is divided. You, L.O.V.E., though you may not mean to, are begrudging labor the gains they realized through having that seat.

Posted by: sansho1 at September 24, 2009 6:50 PM

You don't get $30 bucks right off the bat and considering how much actually goes into manual labor it's funny that you'd whine about how much workers in car manufacturing plants make. The real problem with our country is that those who actually produce real tangible items for us get hung out to dry. The farmers, the blue collar workers, etc. Someone who plays in Wall Street's casino can make 10x as much money as someone doing real hard earned work that actually affects you and me personally.

Capitalism, or any economic ism will be flawed if people let individualistic bullshit override general good. And now we're really feeling the affects of unrestrained greed. We can't hide behind democracy anymore cause it's no longer much better than governments we don't have a vote it. It's still mostly comprised of wealthy out of touch people. Bought and paid for by corporate lobbies.

I'm probably preaching to the choir but whatevs.

Posted by: lolan at September 24, 2009 7:01 PM

Sorry, sansho, but not following your logic. The AUW got a seat at the table long ago, saw the writing on the wall just like Wall Street did, and did not agree to necessary concessions until it was too late.

You know who is doing that now, the NBA refs who make 200K a year to work part-time. And now they are locked out because they refuse to share the pain.

Once again, not begrudging tamatha's dad for making what he made, I'm begrudging the entitlement and the Michael Moore point that GM was somehow obligated to forever subsidize Flint forever.

Posted by: L.O.V.E. at September 24, 2009 7:30 PM

“Wal-Mart can't draft me and subject me to foreign conflict, Wal-Mart can't send me to a concentration camp, Wal-Mart can't read my emails and listen in on my phone calls, Wal-Mart can't tell me what I can and can't put in my own body, and Wal-Mart can't send me to prison for putting the "wrong" thing in my own body. What they can do is sell me consumer products that I may or may not want at a competitive price.”

Walmart can pay it’s workers fuck all and push them onto medicare in order to save themselves the trouble of providing a healthcare plan. Walmart can lock up all it’s major suppliers and squeeze their margins into virtual oblivion, precipitating a decline in conditions for a wider second tier of workers as well. Walmart can determine what gets put on it’s shelves depending on the whims of management (say goodbye to albums with word “fuck”) or efficiency- goodbye fresh fruit and veg, hello 10 tonne vat of pickles. Walmart can crush virtually every other competitor in the “free” market leading to a monopoly or at best, oligopoly- see what happens to competitive pricing under those conditions. Walmart can lobby, caress or coerce what limited government you have into staying the fuck out of whatever it’s business is.

Walmart are no more deserving of trust than a government.

“I trust the collective intelligence and decision making power of us, individual people.”

Very noble, until you consider that individual people run corporations like Walmart and many of the actions I describe above are in their (narrow) interests to take.

Isn’t the theoretical role of government to represent collective intelligence and decision making power of us? If not through a system of government, how else should the collective will be represented? Referendum on every national decision? Government by internet poll?

As Vermillion said every model of government has it’s flaws and can be overtaken by arseholes, which is why it is up to the populations they represent to keep the fuckers honest.


Posted by: Squirrelgripper at September 24, 2009 8:30 PM

Well, If nothing else, I admire the balls it takes to charge people $10 to see a movie about the evils of capitalism.
I mean, I could get two sweatshirts at Wal-Mart for that kinda money.

Posted by: captainoblivious at September 24, 2009 10:50 PM

I thought we were an autonomous collective ...

Posted by: , (the commenter formerly known as bucdaddy) at September 26, 2009 6:51 PM





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