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The Woman Waiting on the Stagecoach: Re-Reexamining "Justified's" Winona Hawkins

By Dan Saipher | Posted Under TV Reviews | Comments (56)



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“winona needs to die. but now she’s pregnant and that would just be mean.”splinter

“God I hate Winona. A lot.”ZombieMedic

“Thank goodness Im not the only o0ne who wants Winona gone. Somebody kill that bitch please!”dl

“Winona is of course terrible…it seems to me as though the writers finally realize how awful Winona is and she’ll be gone soon. Fingers crossed!”Mel C.

Well oh my stars and garters, gang, y’all are some tough hombres. I don’t believe there has been a character pushing the high-water mark of vitriol like this since Betty Draper (please separate Jan Jones’ well due enmity from the “Mad Men” character). I certainly don’t mean to criticize the choice of words; this is not meant to be a Crosshairs-on-the-Campaign-poster critique. We’re still talking about a television character, after all.

Introduced to us at the tail end of the series’ premiere, Winona Givens-Hawkins-Givens (Natalie Zea) moved from behind the veil of a comfortable suburban second marriage, and into a prominent and important role during the second season of “Justified.” At first a secret tryst for Marshall Givens, her intimate details are revealed throughout this latest run of episodes. And as the character Winona spirals down from off her upper-middle class perch, every branch she hits along the way only seems to raise contempt in the show’s audience.

But what makes Winona so contemptible? On a television show chock full o’ nuts with Nazi tattoos, toxic moonshine, and tin stars pinning passes from the penitentiary on crooked cops, her role is seen as both unnecessary and an annoyance. Yet she fits in with a distinct Western archetype; Winona is the woman on the stage, the weary and worldly voice that pulls at our hero to put the guns down. She is the Angie Dickinson to Raylan’s John Wayne in Rio Bravo. Or perhaps, more than that, an update to the dynamic between Amy and Will Kane (Grace Kelly and Gary Cooper) in 1952’s High Noon.



Winona passes through the show as an extension of Raylan’s conscience in the second season, as he gets grayer in the temples and long in the tooth. That look, a damn near devil’s grin, that Raylan wore while shooting Tommy Bucks in Miami has passed; though we beg week-to-week for Harlan County’s villains to receive their comeuppance at the end of a .45 caliber cartridge, he sleepwalks through the Black Pike conspiracies and refuses to even let Dickie Bennett be shot. Those once-fabled range wars that revolved around cattle or horses or water rights or train tracks have evolved into imminent domain land grabs and country cartel battles. It begins to get old to Raylan, perhaps cognizant that the only way all of this will end is with him leaving, willfully or in a pine box.

There are both quick instances and deliberate conversations that testify to this. The first fight with Coover is defined not by a winner or a loser, but by the shot of Raylan on his back exchanging a look with Loretta MacReady. It is framed by the awkward language with Chief Art Mullen, who would enthusiastically help Raylan on his way out of town. And perhaps most importantly, there are the scenes that take place in the motel room that Raylan rents out.

That setting should be familiar to fans of cowboy yarns, where once the hero stayed on the second floor of the local lodge. It is a dingy and claustrophobic room, the camera always closing on characters as if the confines can’t permit a wide angle shot of the room. If you get a chance to rewatch any of the episodes that find Winona and Raylan between the sheets, pay heed to the words and their body language.

Though every woman embraces Raylan’s lone lawman ways, Winona has already been privy to his charms and charisma, and can see right through them. He didn’t make a good husband and he knows that; there’s no blame, no uncomfortable “Why Gary?” speech. Her second marriage to Whiny McNoBalls was foundationed on the kind of support and communication Raylan could not give. Even the small openings-up that the two share are a revelation to Winona, who sits with her chin pressed to Raylan’s chest, attentive and inviting. Ava is infatuated with the Raylan whose hand taps on a hip-side gun holster, but Winona loves the Raylan that exists beyond the duties of the badge. Ava’s “strength” is undermined by her inability to be alone. Sure, she’ll pick up a shotgun and cuss and spit, but she’s played by Boyd and lets him bring in his cadre of criminal rednecks. Boyd plays nice for long enough, but once his hand is due to be played, it’s back to the swastika-tattooed manipulating murderer that’ll put an RPG through a church and dare you to pull first.

Not to say Winona is a moral compass of pristine merit, either. Her plot-advancing five-finger discount swiping of a stack of bills from an evidence locker has been a point of contention. But it shouldn’t grossly sway our opinion of her; the stress of her failed marriage, and Gary’s inexplicable decision to hedge the future on a racehorse without consulting Winona put her back against the wall. And in the most ridiculous set of coincidental circumstances the show has set in motion, a decades-old stack of bills goes untouched until a geriatric thief has one last go at a payday, and his two idiot cohorts somehow rob the exact bank that Winona was visiting. How many of you furrowed your brows upon learning the marshal’s office actually scans and records the whereabouts of every stolen bill in that bag? How many people would have stuck their hands into that dusty canvas bag figuring it wouldn’t be heard from in their lifetime?

Maybe we just have to find someone to hate in Harlan County. The brutal bad guys and gals all course with a current of country charisma, and by the end of the season each scene was another round of haymaker ultimatums that kept raising the stakes. We revel in the violence, raise our pulse and beg for a bullet exchange. Yet that’s easy to cheer from the armchair, and it’s even easier to sneer at Winona for being the only character on the show devoid of bloodlust. Her actions and demands are realistic, yet she gets caught in an impossible situation. Love Don Draper for his infidelities, but hate Betty for leaving a chronic philanderer. Love Raylan for his self-sacrificing cowboy ideals, but hate Winona for asking him to stop getting shot at or hung like a Dickie’s personal piƱata. Make no mistake, these men are deeply flawed, and our enjoyment of these flaws comes with the caveat that we don’t reap the consequences they sew. How many more times does Raylan have to be bailed out by Art or Tim or the local police before he learns to call for back-up? How would you feel in Winona’s place? Would you sit patiently in that wood paneling and Dupont acrylic-carpeted motel shitbox ‘till Art showed up with a long face and an empty cowboy hat? Or would you dare Marshal Givens to get on the stage with you and make the tough choice to live the easy life?

Dan Saipher expects to change absolutely no one’s opinion about Winona, and is giddy to see the flames of internet rage stoked yet again.









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Comments

Nice piece, but I still don't like her. Winona clearly loves herself more than anyone else could and she wants Raylan to put her on a pedestal, admire and protect her...she wants to be number one even though she knows it's not in his nature.

Posted by: Cindy at May 25, 2011 2:45 PM

Also, no--I would not sit around waiting--I would bang his brains out and be happy for it.

Posted by: Cindy at May 25, 2011 2:47 PM

I could almost give Winona a pass for stealing the money, but not for being a complete hypocrite. She hates Raylan's job until he's suddenly in a position to keep her out of a federal penitentiary and then she's all for whatever it takes. AND she lied to him about how much she stole. She has manipulated him into ruining his relationship with his boss and she comes across as the kind of woman who runs from man to man to pay for/support/protect her without any sense of responsibility. Remember she started off going sour on hubby number two before all the other crap started because they were having money problems.

Posted by: PaddyDog at May 25, 2011 2:53 PM

Well-written piece, but I also disagree. As a member of the audience, I enjoy smirking Raylan and HATE "Oh, woe is me, why couldn't have been a happy worker bee for you, sweetheart, instead of the natural-born killer that I am?" Raylan. And I consider Winona directly responsible for that. Plus...the woman NEVER STOPS FUCKING WHINING. She is a damn buzzkill all the time.

In addition, I find your analysis of Ava flawed. You seem of the opinion that Ava has fallen into her current situation due to some innate victimhood, whereas I think her move here was deliberate. Yes, Ava is the sort of woman who enjoys being with a bad boy, but she knew exactly what she was getting into when she hooked up with Boyd. I'd personally love to see her become something of a Mags Bennett in-the-making. (Unless, of course, she could get back with Raylan, which is where I like her best.)

Posted by: Siege at May 25, 2011 2:59 PM

You hit on it at the end. We liked Winona better when she knew Raylan well enough not to take a risk on him again, the "been there done that not gonna do it again" type that still sort of likes him, but won't allow herself to love him. And then, inexplicably, she allows herself to love him again. Not only that, but she does so in the hopes that he'll be a different Raylan than before. Waiting for the hat in hand or asking for the easy life don't seem like viable options. Not being with Raylan seems to suit her, no matter how hard it might be. We liked her when she made that choice, we like her less when she wants to have her cake and eat it too.

Posted by: Kester at May 25, 2011 3:01 PM

I think a lot of the hatred towards Winona comes from Raylan's desire for her. His instincts allow him to glance at someone and know if they're packing, if they're up to something, or if they're lying. He's like a southern Agent Dale Cooper. But when it comes to his ex-wife, he's wearing blinders.

Posted by: Paultera at May 25, 2011 3:02 PM

I don't like Winona because she is basically saying "I love you, but I won't be with you unless you sacrifice everything for me".

Winona doesn't "love the Raylan that exists beyond the duties of the badge" because that Raylan doesn't exist. Raylan Givens is his job. She wants him to change who he is to be with her, but if that happens he'll be a completely different man and I bet she'll hate him for it. Then she'll leave again, claiming (probably with some merit) that he resents her for making him change.

And what exactly is Winona going to change about herself to be in this relationship? The sacrifice shouldn't only be on his side.

Posted by: Three-nineteen at May 25, 2011 3:06 PM

I've never hated the Winona character, and all good points, but like PDog says above, Winona is a schemer. She's not morally superior to anyone on that show, except maybe Gary.

Which is fine. Real women are often deeply flawed, as flawed as any man, so no reason the make-believe ones on TV can't be, too.

Posted by: Slash at May 25, 2011 3:08 PM

Well said, Three-nineteen. I was trying (very unsuccessfully) to get to that very point. Winona loves Raylan as long as he is someone completely different.

Posted by: Siege at May 25, 2011 3:08 PM

She asked Raylan to give up on a child so they could run away together. Perhaps that was a bit of writing to make her more unlikeable, but if so it worked. She doesn't seem to love Raylan for who he is but who she wants him to be. Unless she's in trouble, then who he is is just fine. You can also touch on the Wesley Crusher effect she seems to have. Everyone thinks they would be better in her spot, with the dreamy Raylan and the romance and all, but even someone like Sniper Tim seems like a better man and a better marshal. It's just Raylan's story.

Posted by: Mrcreosote at May 25, 2011 3:18 PM

This is wonderfully written and in many ways you're correct, Winona is, in some ways, necassary.

Raylan DOES need someone to see through and call him on his bullshit, but at the end of the day, Winona is just badly written.

The entire sub plot with the money was tedious and unneccasary and felt shoe horned in to facilitate the 'development' of their relationship.

Winona had the bare faced cheek to request, nay, DEMAND that Raylan abandon Loretta to her fate, be it her physical death or that of her soul.

Admittedly, Raylan does get shot, but he slays the monster and saves the princess. Had he not gone, Loretta would not have survived.

She opens her every first scene in an episode with 'I need a favour'

If you did one of those infographic things with her dialogue, the primary words would be 'I' 'Me' 'Need' 'Want' 'ME ME ME ME ME ME ME ME'

She isn't 'strong', I'll say that. She's stubborn and mind blowingly stupid and it makes her SEEM as if she has a spine when the fact is she is incapable of seeing beyond her own nose and registering how her actions affect others. This was exhibited early on, she left Raylan for Gary, then left Gary for Raylan, but is still shocked, SHOCKED, when Gary calls her out.

She asks Raylan to compromise first his job, then his physical health to keep tabs on the husband she LEFT HIM FOR. She STOLE MONEY FROM A FEDERAL EVIDENCE LOCKER and asks what 'WE' are going to do of Raylan when HER mistake comes back to bite her in the ass.

Yeah, she calls him out on his crap, she sees through his mask and 'Cowboy' imagery and can see him growing weary with his lot. But she doesn't help him with that.
She PREYS on it, she sees chinks in his armour and she uses them to her own advantage, to get her own way.

The really mean part of me doesn't even believe she's really pregnant, I think she's THAT low of a person.

Posted by: Nadine at May 25, 2011 3:23 PM

When my first editor met my wife, he told her, "Not everyone can be married to a reporter." It's the same for cops. I don't think it's unreasonable for a woman to want her boyfriend/husband to come home alive at the end of his shift and that's a 50-50 proposition on Raylan's BEST days. Most of us have stayed with, even loved, someone who was the absolute wrong person to be with. Raylan and Winona are obviously wrong for each other but they can't resist the attraction. Why is Winona the only one punished for making a bad romantic decision?

And Raylan should have known enough to just burn the goddamned money.

Posted by: Tracer Bullet at May 25, 2011 3:26 PM

I'm willing to bet most of the people that hate Winona are female viewers. It reminds me a little of the Cuddy haters, like these women characters are somehow poaching on the super fan's men. Granted, Winona isn't a particularly likable person, but she's certainly not the worst on the show.

Good choice on the header photo, that's the best picture of that actress I've ever seen.

Posted by: snapnhiss at May 25, 2011 3:28 PM

Sniper Tim is my favourite character and I wont even pretend I'm not completely and totally obsessed with him. Like. Seriously.

Posted by: Nadine at May 25, 2011 3:31 PM

I agree that a lot of the Winona-haters are probably women. But that is part of my problem with her--she is the kind of female character that gives women a bad name...a version of the female harpy character that we so dislike when Katherine Heigl plays her. She is the kind of character who wants to be with the main male character, except she wants him to change everything about himself to live up to her standards. I mean, it doesn't seem like Raylan has ever been (or has ever particularly wanted to be) anything but what he is. I hate women in real life who find a guy and then proceed to try and turn him into something else entirely, and I hate it in my TV characters, too. Maybe she's right to want him to be different, but it's not really her decision.

Also, the whole "leave Loretta to her fate" bit really pissed me off, because Loretta is another character that I really like. (Secretly, I'd like Boyd and Ava to take her in...that crime family could not lose.)

Posted by: Siege at May 25, 2011 3:40 PM

Snapnhiss, you're probably not wrong. Though I always loved Cuddy before I gave up on the House altogether.

But more than a fair few PajiBoys hate her as well, and she makes it easy.

I'm inclined to believe they made her unlike-able on purpose, so Raylan's inevitable decision to stay in Kentucky(for at least one more season) didn't make him come off too much of a jag hole.

I don't see her as a strong character, or a role model character for the show. Lets face it, Rachel Brooks is the strongest female character and she BARELY gets screen time.

Winona's just looks and a wrench in the works for Raylan.

I started out liking her and I watched Season 1 again recently and was surprised by how funny and sassy she used to be, how she stood alone.

Now...to fall back on my issue with Lindsay Monroe from CSI: NY, the character is increasingly defined by her interactions with men and it's becoming pathetic.
For me it isn't about her interaction with Raylan.
Like I said, I prefer Deputy Tim and I will actually murder someone if he doesn't get fleshed out in season 3, so I don't want to be in her shoes in that respect.

It's about her as a whole. I didn't mind the ex-wife who calls him out, the concluding scene of the pilot was brilliant with her just stating the facts about his anger and him looking just flabbergasted. That was amazing. And it was refreshing when his initial love interest turned out to be Ava, especially since their hook up was sexy as all get out.
With Winona we're supposed to feel like they're one anothers lost great love that JUST can't work no matter how hard they try, but I don't get that, I feel like Raylan, sometimes quite obviously, hates her and like I say, it feels sort of forced.

I've never wanted to strangle her more than when she told him she was pregnant and was basically like 'remember how you were half drunk and joking about mustaches and vaguely mentioned Glynco? Well now WE totally HAVE to go because I'm preggers, u cool?'
I feel like she'd use his gun to shoot a neighbours barking dog and be like 'U mad bro?'

Posted by: Nadine at May 25, 2011 3:42 PM

All-around very interesting article and comments!

Siege, there was a line or two of dialogue and a significant look from Ava to Bord after Aunt Helen was killed that led me to think that Ava considers herself an Aunt-Helen-in-the-making...

Posted by: Neon at May 25, 2011 3:49 PM

Neon, oh! Actually yeah. I did love their scene together when Boyd was pitching his plan to Arlow, she could be a HELLUVA Helen.

Also I enjoy just looking at her, so WIN

Posted by: Nadine at May 25, 2011 3:51 PM

Does Olyphant as Givens remind any one else of Eastwood as Coogan? I don't feel that Winona deserves quite all the vitriol heaped upon her but I'm not sure I buy her as western archetype in the way Givens is.

Posted by: Captainfireypants at May 25, 2011 4:06 PM

Off topic, but they need some Sniper Tim bare ass scenes next season.

Posted by: snapnhiss at May 25, 2011 4:07 PM

Was it abandoning Loretta to her fate or was it: "Hey, asshole? Instead of charging off into a county where I can name at least 15 people who want to kill you, why don't you let one of the other people with badges and guns, SOME OF WHOM HAVE ACTUAL JURISDICTION IN THIS MATTER, deal with this? You're going to be a father and you can't run of to play Lone Ranger all the goddamn time like you used to."

Posted by: Tracer Bullet at May 25, 2011 4:08 PM

I like Winona. I think she's manipulative but I think when Raylan returned she realized how much she fucked up by cheating on him. She wants that white picket fence and family with him and is willing to break the law to try and insure her disastrous marriage to Gary doesn't blow back onto Raylan. The irony of course being that is exactly what happened. This season seemed really to be about trying to change, and failing miserably. Boyd tried to be a good guy and it didn't work. Raylan is trying to change for Winona and it's a disaster.

Winona is not a villain, but no one on Justified truly is a villain. I fucking HATE Sansa and Joffrey on Game of Thrones because I think they are horrible, awful people and I keep hoping a meteor incinerates them. But I don't feel that way about anyone on Justified. It's a testament to the actors that they can make some genuinely damaged people (Ava, Boyd, Raylan, and Winona) still sympathetic even when you KNOW they are fucking up their lives and the lives of those close to them.

I think Raylan's spiral down this season was based on trying to become something he's not for Winona. That's not Winona's fault, but I really don't think that relationship can end in anything but disaster.

Posted by: TylerDFC at May 25, 2011 4:09 PM

I was intrigued by Winona in Season 1. That night she went to the hotel - when she left, and Raylan was completely perplexed, speechless - I figured she must be incredibly interesting to have that affect.

But she's not. She's whiny and not very intelligent and so very self-centered. She is inflexible. Mostly, she is very poorly written. I think you, very charitably, have given her way more interest and depth than she actually has. That is very kind of you.

Posted by: Sbrown at May 25, 2011 4:12 PM

Ohmygod snapnhiss, you ain't even a tiny bit wrong. We HAVE EARNED THIS.

And I love what Sbrown said.

Posted by: Nadine at May 25, 2011 4:16 PM

Also, I had that feeling to, that she must be SOMETHING to have left him so 'whaaaaaat?'

But now I feel it was less 'Holy hot sexytimes batman, what the hell was that?'
More 'Um...what the fuck was that? Am I going to get an explana-oh...you've left...okay?'

Posted by: Nadine at May 25, 2011 4:20 PM

I laughed when I saw my quote up there, I had forgotten that I wrote it! And I stand by it, every word, I hate Winona. She slows down the action and the only reason she went to Raylan is because she didn't want to depend on herself. Then who could she blame for her screw ups?

Posted by: dl at May 25, 2011 4:28 PM

Honestly she's just such a dull character. Nothing about her interests me. In a show full of fascinating, layered characters it's annoying that so much time is given to such a bland one.

I don't really get her appeal to Raylan. Obviously she's beautiful. But 90% of the time she's a whiny, self-entitled cow. And she's not even interesting in a fiery kind of way. I haven't seen anything from her or the two of them together that makes me understand why they would think getting back together is a good idea.

Still I was ambivalent until she stole the cash. It's not the stealing I mind, just the stupidity that followed and the fact that she didn't seem to care that she'd put Raylan in a horrible position. She just expected that he would do whatever he had to to fix her epic fuck up.

Posted by: KateMC at May 25, 2011 4:43 PM

I didn't dislike Winona until she moved into the hotel room. Not because she's shagging Raylan, but because I cannot fathom why she didn't just get a damned apartment. As much as I enjoy watching Raylan Givens, I wouldn't want to be with him - mostly because I already tried that path, and it doesn't work out well. Maybe that's why I find her so irritating. She knows what she's in for and yet she goes back to it and acts surprised that he's still the same guy in the same job. If he didn't change for you the first time, honey, and if who he is at heart is not enough or right, then he's not the guy for you. Shag him. Tell him all about himself and kick him out of your space. But don't walk back in that door and expect it to turn out a different way, especially if you haven't changed, either.

Posted by: RebaSays at May 25, 2011 4:50 PM

Yeah, I agree that Winona comes off as whiny only to the degree that Raylan is determined to get himself killed. I think Raylan is representative of a certain kind of fatalistic Bluegrass miner mentality (have you ever heard the soundtrack of the documentary Harlan County, USA?) that ultimately has led him down some dark paths and some extremely hairy season finales situations. I don't think it's selfish, particularly, of Winona to try to get him out of that life and that frame of mind. (After all, she doesn't know that he's the star of the show.)

And I also tend to think that a little selfishness is OK when it comes to the person you are trying to make a life with, or the person whose baby you are gestating. Particularly when that person is trying to single-handedly take on a redneck, highly-armed, hillbilly gang without asking anyone for help.

Posted by: The Wandering Parakeet at May 25, 2011 4:50 PM

I have one main problem with the "romances" in the show. They are two good looking women, and, for all of the dirt bags full of blood lust in the show, there are plenty of good guys around. Good, dutiful men exist in the world of Justified, and although it brings them much pain and consternation, these women keep dipping back into the same poison well. As much as they might love these men, it just seems like they either pursue it out of convenience or out of stubbornness. With Ava, it's some kind of awful stubbornness. Winona strikes me as someone who should be smart enough to realize there are other fish in the sea, and the men in Harlan aren't worth that much trouble. Raylan is digging his own grave and consistently shows that he's aware of it so...idk. I would love an episode from the perspective of the other characters (Tim, Rachel, and Art) that work with Raylan that subtly highlights how foolish and crazy Raylan's behavior is.

Posted by: gdestroyer8 at May 25, 2011 4:54 PM

I think the episode pairing Tim with Raylan after Gary's hired goons tried to take them out did give some outside perspective of Raylan.

Raylan basically treated Tim like shit, like his job, reputation and responsibility was shit. He went off on his own, to see MAGS of all people, seeming legit surprised when Doyle and his merry band of deputies rolled up. Not only did he endanger himself, he endangered Tim, and generally compromised everyone.

Also I think it highlighted the fact he's super self centered. YES he is in the kind of job where bad people will come after him, but he had to be damn near TOLD they where after Winona because he was SO dead certain Mags called the hit out despite zero previous form.

Well, not ZERO, but zero history of sending out a hit squad. She has her glasses for that.

I am honestly hoping Winona has seen fit to leave Kentucky come the new season, but I know that wont happen. Whether the writers want us to hate her or are developing Lana Lang syndrome and falling in love with her despite the vocal protests of errbody, she's not a good character.

Ava was infinitely more interesting. She's obviously in to danger and maybe even a little bit of a danger slut, but she still managed to be charming. HER ability to call Raylan on his bullshit was funnier, it didn't come off as nagging and whining, SHE captured the woman on the stage thing perfectly.

Posted by: Nadine at May 25, 2011 5:06 PM

thanks, dan. i appreciate what you are saying but i just think don't like her. i stand by what i said earlier this year:

in season three winona has her baby but soon after is killed. naturally this involves boyd in some unwitting but still culpable fashion. in season four rayland seeks revenge and there's a massive shoot out at the end where both boyd and rayland die. end of series. roll credits.

on to comments!

Posted by: splinter at May 25, 2011 5:12 PM

did i misspell raylan's name? forgive me!

Posted by: splinter at May 25, 2011 5:14 PM

See I think the kid is a bad idea. It's like when action movie sequels are struggling so add a kid to broaden their audience a little more.

How would a baby fit on this show? I think she'll turn out to have been wrong but she's what decision he'll make even knowing he has a child on the way and she abandons him. I think Raylan is the kind of character destined to be alone. He'll have his incredibly sexy flings and romances and his great love Winblahblah, but he's not a man destined to grown old with someone.

He's a Lawman, damn it. He'll die with his boots on.

Posted by: Nadine at May 25, 2011 5:18 PM

Straight up, thanks to Walt Goggins pronunciation it took me til Season 2 to realise it WASN'T RaylanD.

Posted by: Nadine at May 25, 2011 5:20 PM

great comments everyone. i wholeheartedly agree with all the negative comments about winona. also think gdestroyer8's idea for an episode from a minor character's point of view to highlight how batshit crazy raylan is is a great one.

Posted by: splinter at May 25, 2011 5:25 PM

Winona 2.0 (Distinct form Winona 1.0 from pilot.) is annoying because she's a sociopath. Diagnostically, she's the most sociopathic character on the show, then Raylan, then Mags then Boyd. The other baddies are just various kinds of batshit, evil or damaged.

Thoughts? ...

For reference, diagnostic indicators are ...

- Glibness and Superficial Charm
- Manipulative and Conning
- They never recognize the rights of others and see their self-serving behaviors as permissible.
- Grandiose Sense of Self. Feels entitled to certain things as "their right."
- Pathological Lying
- Lack of Remorse, Shame or Guilt
- Shallow Emotions
- Incapacity for Love
- Need for Stimulation
- Callousness/Lack of Empathy
- Poor Behavioral Controls/Impulsive Nature
- Irresponsibility/Unreliability
- Promiscuous Sexual Behavior/Infidelity
- Lack of Realistic Life Plan/Parasitic Lifestyle
- Criminal or Entrepreneurial Versatility

Posted by: BierceAmbrose at May 25, 2011 5:34 PM

BierceAmbrose, I was going to say she's sociopathic but I didn't think I could come up with enough examples to make it fit. You Sir/Madam, have nailed it.

Posted by: Nadine at May 25, 2011 5:54 PM

this is perfect. she is a sociopath!

Posted by: splinter at May 25, 2011 6:37 PM

This article is PERFECT. I have yet to see a valid or concrete reason for the hatred that is felt towards Winona, but this article gives some great insight. Haters gonna hate.

Posted by: Kate at May 25, 2011 7:20 PM

kate, you should read the comments. there are some valid concerns though you, of course, are free to disagree. i'm not a hater though at times i do hate. just sayin'.

Posted by: splinter at May 25, 2011 7:38 PM

I love this article. The only thing more confusing about the vitriolic hate for this character in internet fandom is the odd infatution with sniper Tim (I like him too, but calm down). It's like viewers don't like a character unless they've killed someone.

I like Ava, but when it comes down to it, she's just as much an opportunist as anyone else. She kept stolen money and helped cover up a murder because it benefited her more than anything else. She can hold a shot gun, and she's killed a badger and her husband while he was eating. In the meantime she's been shot, kidnapped twice, and becomes whatever the man in her life needs her to be. I don't find that strong at all.

And I don't think asking the man you love and father of your unborn child not to go get himself strung up to a tree and shot at selfish.

I will continue to love Winona and look forward to the journey she and Raylan are going to take. Watching people go batshit about on the internet is part of the entertainment too honestly.

Posted by: Diana at May 25, 2011 8:17 PM

Kate, I agree with you. I have read all the negative comments here and on many sites and I think they are all, for some reason I can't quite put my finger on, singling her out and hyperbolizing her mistakes, which are no worse than any other character's. And those who simply find her dull, that is very valid. Everybody is entertained by different things and I think she's very entertaining, I love to see her argue with Raylan, I think she's funny. I like that she's not a stereotypical leading lady and that she's very flawed and I love that all she wants is for Raylan to not be killed: I would feel the same in her shoes.

Posted by: J at May 25, 2011 8:20 PM

Diana, if the actor playing Tim the sniper was Jack Black, I can assure you I wouldn't find him attractive.

Posted by: snapnhiss at May 25, 2011 9:01 PM

Oh, I definitely wouldn't want anything to do with an actual Raylan Givens. He's crazy and dangerous and people around him die at an alarming rate. I find him fascinating and hot as a TV character but would stay at least three counties away from him in real life.

Posted by: Three-nineteen at May 25, 2011 9:05 PM

I recently mainlined season two with two Winona haters and one Winona (lover? apologist?) liker. And FYI for all ya'll upthread, that room was full of women. Anyway, I was struck by how Raylan and Winona are interesting enough in their own right but they bring out the worst possible characteristics in each other. They're just no good together, smoking hot sex aside.

It's possible that they were growing as a couple by the end of the season. But if I were Art I'd want them out of my hair ASAP because they're liable to get him (or Tim or Rachel or all three) killed.

Posted by: Lipton at May 25, 2011 9:16 PM

Actually, I think we're all missing the most important part of all this...

I'm a cited internet source.

They said I'd never amount to anything. They lied.

Posted by: ZombieMedic at May 25, 2011 9:18 PM

let's not forget i got top billing

Posted by: splinter at May 25, 2011 10:27 PM

I think we haters have done a pretty fair job of 'justifying' (see what i did there?) our issue with the character.

She DOES make more and worse mistakes than other characters on the show. The mistakes say, Ava, Boyd or Raylan make fit in to the life styles they already lead, Ava was already married to a Crowder so falling into Boyd's arms worked out, she's already a danger slut so it fits she'd eventually fall for Boyd when Raylan left her high and dry.

Boyd is Boyd. He's an expert in manipulation so if he EVER really had this decent streak of righteousness it was always going to be used to exclusively his own ends. He got in deep with with his dad but it all fit within his established history.

Raylan is Raylan. Everything he does, and why is pretty much sprayed across the screen every week.

Winona though? Winona starts out totally separate from his world and for no real reason, thrusts herself back into it.

SHE left him for the specific reason that he was more married to his job than her. SHE, after seeing him go through a year in which he showed NO indication of changing his ways(even almost exclusively tussling with old friends and enemies)approached HIM for an affair. SHE has decided how they will progress as a 'couple' while he is just pussy whipped enough to go along with it while retaining JUST enough sanity to at least be able to be shocked and pissed by her stupidity.

The money thing was ridiculous and served no purpose other than to allow a few more characters to fawn all over poor, pretty Winona and her trauma, and to highlight her incredible level of retardation.
And since finding the money missing made LITERALLY NO ONE CARE AT ALL, the whole plot was just an insult to watch play out

Sure, Art knows, sure Raylan figures it's meant he should probably leave Kentucky while he still has SOME kind of chance, but over all? It made FUCK ALL difference to anything. It didn't change the outcome of anything that actually MATTERS in the show universe and since we KNOW Raylan isn't leaving for that darned third season they've already got, so why did any of it happen?


Like we've all said, we didn't hate Winona from the off, she started out a decent character, she was sassy, funny, bold.

But then she started every episode saying 'I need a favour'

She IS a sociopath and she is either intentionally and therefore EXCELLENTLY written to be as aggravating as possible, or the writers have lost sight of how awful she is and are missing it!

Posted by: Nadine at May 26, 2011 4:36 AM

thanks, nadine, for stating it so eloquently.

Posted by: splinter at May 26, 2011 7:10 AM

For the record as one of the Winona haters, I am female, but I can honestly say that jealousy based on the fact that she's Raylan's girlfriend is not why I hate her. I want Raylan to have a hot woman in his life. I want steamy sex scenes in which Raylan does everything with his PaddyDog surrogate. I will wholeheartedly embrace that woman. But Winona is a snake.

Posted by: PaddyDog at May 26, 2011 9:31 AM

PaddyDog has nailed it, methinks.

Posted by: Nadine at May 26, 2011 10:14 AM

Winnona is no longer an interesting character in her own right. She is, like other characters, written for us to better understand Raylan.

But unlike the other characters, she's devolved. She doesn't have a heroic or even likeable thru story of her own. The two major events for Winnona / Rylan this season were: stealing money and getting pregnant. Jung would say that Raylan is not in "love" but in obsession w/his shadow.

Re: Money. She was unable to articulate her reason for stealing the money -- she concluded at the end of her crazy confession rant to Raylan(paraphrasing) "I just decided to take it and figure out the reason later." This had to be a deliberate decision by the writers, and I think it was perfect to show us how conflicted Raylan is over her and why she's his cryptonite. (Note: She first said it was to get she and Gary out of financial stress and then threw in that maybe it was for she and Raylan to run away. In other words, she didn't steal to pay for her sister's kidney transplant or save an orphanage.)

I think the show has told us (thru exposition which we are to take a face value) that Raylan's childhood was wrought with his need to love his parents who were either weak (mom, an abused wife who wouldn't leave or protect him) or cruel and immoral(dad, who beat his wife / kid and "grifted people's welfare checks"). Raylan's reaction to people (co-workers, romances, and criminals) are as surrogates for his parents.

Helen, who was a likable character and obvious mother surrogate, betrayed Raylan by marrying Arlo, and then used him in Arlo's scheme to grift the drug dealer renting her house. We see Raylan write her off as they walk from the hospital. He even references the lesson she taught him about spotting a lie in his verbal slap down of her.

Art is the father he wished he'd had...until he's not. Art can't forgive Raylan for his hand in the stolen money fiasco. (By not turning Raylan in, Art is jepardizing his own career, if not his pension.) Art is a very good and moral man. He craves Art's approval, but won't get it yet.

Ava, the abused wife, and Loretta, the abandoned abducted woman-child) need to be rescued too ... until they don't. They both have strong internal motives on which they act w/o soliciting Raylan's help. Ava menaces Bo w/a shotgun and Loretta the same w/Mags. Even Carol who is assigned Raylan's protection, manhandles the obnoxious drunk at Mags party by herself. Raylan is obsessed with the need to save women-psychological surrogates for the mom he could not protect. Strong women don't need him. Winnona satisfies that need.

Winnona, is in constant need of rescue (always needing favors great and small from Raylan) and is immoral (cheats on her husbands and is a thief when it's opportune) w/a large dose of dumb on the side.

Re: Pregnancy. This is the ultimate indicator of her pathology. So far, we've only seen her use adults, but now she's going to bring a child into the mix; as bargaining chip perhaps? I think she got pregnant intentionally because as a woman, I find it incredulous that Winnona, who is in her mid thirties and was married w/o children for a total of 12 years screws up on her birth control just as she's going thru a divorce fr Gary (her former rescuer / financial lifeboat no more) while having an affair w/current rescuer Raylan (who seems ready to bolt at any moment and is questioning her sanity). Her character is a powerful tool in helping us define Raylan because she is both his mom and dad.

Because Winnona makes him weak and pulls him off his moral compass and away from his friends, we hate her. Like the robot from "Lost in Space" we want to yell "Danger Will Robinson, Danger". We also hate her because she knows Raylan "loves" her but she holds the carrot of reciprocating just out of reach.

We want our boy to be loved by a strong smart woman who loves him just the way he is. W/O conditions to change or constantly needing to prove his devotion with the endless granting of favors.

Now with a child, it will be interesting to see Raylan's deepest feelings brought forth. Is this baby meant to be a surrogate for his own lost childhood? Personally, I don't like kids on shows, but given the writing so far, I'm willing to w/hold judgment . . . until I don't.

P.S. My favorite character for analyzing Raylan is Boyd. He was also raised by a criminal, but by his own account, was loved as a kid. That relationship is fascinating.

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