Pajiba

as I understand it, Perry doesn't really make films intended for my particular shade of albino.

With all due respect, I'm pretty sure that the film are not made for my particular shade of melanin. I've yet to see a Perry film that isn't borderline, or outright, insulting to black women. I think we are supposed to accept that some of the men in his films are good men solely because he tells us they are.

In other news, I appreciate the shirtless shot of White. Thanks!

Gah - I meant, I'm pretty sure that the films are not made for my particular shade of melanin.

Trust me, Kimberly, it's not necessarily melanin which excludes you from the target audience. I have plenty of melanin. Apparently, I lack a certain amount of tolerance for Perry's simplistic preachiness to make me a member of the target audience, too.

But as I understand it, Perry doesn't really make films intended for my particular shade of albino. In all of my years reading reviews I've never heard someone open up with a line like that. It's so stupid, maybe if you got out more things wouldn't surprise you so much. In your world black film directors only make films for black people whereas white film directors make films for all of humanity. Maybe as a reviewer you should start out with baby steps, something like a high school play, then work your way up. Just in case you didn't know, blacks are doing wonderful things these days like teaching, we're lawyers, doctors and stuff like that. I've even heard a black man has the audacity of hope to run for president.

Perry obviously lays everything wrong with the black community at the feet of black women. And he should... how dare we pursue careers or insist that our husbands keep their babymommas in check? Who do we think we are: white women?

That being said, I went in the movie expecting to be insulted and appalled --and Mr. Perry didn't let me down-- but in the end I just laughed at the funny moments along with the raucous crowd in attendance.

While I don't like his methods or his message, I hope the movie is a success. I hope Perry's success opens the door for truly talented Black playwrights/actors/directors/producers to put out a higher quality product. But I have a feeling Hollywood will just give us more of the same.

Here's my problem with most "black films" they are either stuck in the fucking ghetto or they WAAAAAY overcompensate by making them about ultra successful characters; as in they're all either sports persons or Harvard trained stronaut-neurosurgeon-clubowners. Sometimes you get ALL within the same family group.

I find it EXTREMELY annoying because from personal experience, I KNOW there are black, middle class, NORMAL folk.

And off we go!

Pookie, nice to see you return with your not-so-special brand of complaining. For someone with so many years of reading reviews, it is surprising that you are so put off by that line. After another of Perry's films, that has become nearly the official disclaimer, since so many self-identified black people objected to a white reviewer honestly reviewing the movie. She in no way indicated that she was surprised that black people make movies, too. Tone down the indignation for a sec and reread that line. Plus, she didn't make the "black films for black people" rule, black people did when they descended on this site previously to attack anyone who actually thought that Perry's films were flawed. The only argument they presented was that the reviewer was white, and therefore could not possibly comprehend the movie on the proper level. They made such a big deal about it, that every Perry review since had to include such a line so that they could get it out of the way. Honestly, how are the reviewers supposed to win? If they don't admit that they aren't the target audience, they get knocked for not taking it into account. But if they do admit it, they are accused of segregation. Either they are allowed to review the movie regardless of color, or they are not. Make up your goddamn minds.

As far as the movie is concerned, it seems Perry, while moving past the black-man-in-drag phase, has resorted to his some old stereotype and tropes. While I never noticed the mistreatment of black women in his works, I have noticed the recurring theme that material success equals spiritual degradation and eventual downfall. In his works, nearly every character with any kind of wealth or status has to have some ever-corrupting evil inside of them and are completely irredeemable. Even with this movie, he takes couples with some sort of material wealth and wrecks their private lives, all in order to pander to the fantasies of his core audience: masochists that pray to God for wealth and salvation, but hate on those who manage to do gain such without such false-hearted platitudes. It is like he is saying that if you are black and are not scraping and scrounging, then you must have sold your soul or are somehow villainous, because no true virtuous soul can be that successful in this life. Which is funny, since he is just as rich and successful as many of those evil characters.

So, again, I call on those whose truly believe in Tyler Perry to save him from his own success. Boycott his movies, rob his house, maybe even punch him in the mouth. Because if you don't, he is going to beat his wife and his two mistresses, while bulldozing a public housing complex and kicking little ghetto children in the back of the head.

And the really ridiculous thing about this movie is that I am honestly supposed to look at Sharon Leal, Janet Jackson, Jill Scott and Tasha Smith and find something wrong with them sexually? Really? I am supposed to believe that someone would NOT want to have sex with these women? At All? REALLY?

Talk about suspension of disbelief.

"Diary of a Mad Black Woman" convinced me that Perry only thinks a woman can be happy if she has a man. I know he wants to seem sensitive and in touch, but his stories give way to a truer, darker (no pun intended) underbelly.

You know....I have absolutely zero interest in the Tyler Perry ouevre (Damn! Been waiting forever to use that word) but the good Agents review actually sparked my interest enough to consider watching this....dramadey?

Don't know/care whether that is good or bad.

and Pook,

I'm racially mixed so I don't know whether that helps/hurts.

Race issues aside, Perry really seems to hate women. He mocks them (Madea) and degrades them for wanting the same things men want: careers, freedom from repression, respect. He seems to think women are 'other' and therefore something to mock and fear. What an asshole. I understand that he can maybe open doors for black film makers, but as resistant as Hollywood is to treating women as something other than semen receptacles, grandmothers, and objects worth mocking, I don't think Perry is likely to do much good for anyone. He is rather more likely to continue to harm the image of women, which makes him just like everyone else in Hollywood.

Just from the trailers for his movies I'm under the impression that this dude is on a level with Use Boll...he just makes bad movies. Race has nothing to do with it.

Producer-director-writer-actor Perry's appeal to African American audiences went from solid to spectacular Friday as the Lionsgate adaptation of his stage play was the No. 1 U.S. movie, opening with $7.6 million Friday from 2,011 theaters and the best per screen average. robert_duvall15.jpgPerry is now one of Hollywood's most reliable box office brands, again able to tap into a deep reservoir of comedic mayhem and melodrama that his moviegoers love seeing. This weekend, he was critic-proof, with reviewers generally rejecting his PG-13 film. But the 3-day estimate is still a comfortable $22M to $25M.

My box office analysts expected Warner's R-rated Michael Clayton, which expanded into 2,511 theaters this weekend, to be the No. 1 film. Instead, it's only #3 after earning just $3.2 million Friday from 2,511 plays.

If there is some happiness to be found...

After a disappointing debut last weekend, DreamWorks / Paramount's The Heartbreak Kid managed 5th place. The Ben Stiller starrer eked out $2.3 million Friday from 3,233 dates, down an expected 51%. Its 3-day estimate is $7 mil.

The "My box office analyst" part should have been italic too.

I don't understand why it's such a horrible thing to say "this movie isn't intended for me". Hollywood has been making movies (good and bad) that are marketed toward certain demographics for years.

And for years other demographics that have been forced to leave theaters scratching their heads have been saying that was weird or I don't get it.

It takes a certain kind of Utopian director to be able to make a film that's truly universal and can appeal to everyone. Understand, this film will not be able to appeal to everyone for the same reasons. No two people are going to take away from an exeperience the same thing. Each person will experience a film through the filter of their own experience/thoughts/feelings/hangups.

That's what makes cinema and theater such great mediums. Because they DO have the ability to reach so many people, and hopefully affect those people in some way. That's what all directors want on some level.

Unfortunately Perry does not live in Utopia. But then, neither do most (dare I say all) the directors in Hollywood.

To accuse someone of being racist because they admit to not understanding the appeal of a movie is to accuse someone of being a serial killer because they got off a little bit on torture porn. Or a soulless heathen because they didn't get the appeal of Pixar's latest flick.

*steps off soapbox*

I'll shut up now.

Vermillion, thank you for putting me in my place. I'm sorry for being so uppity.

Vermillion, thank you for putting me in my place. I'm sorry for being so uppity.

In other words, "I have no valid response, so I'm just going to infer that you are racist for disagreeing with me."

In other words, "I have no valid response, so I'm just going to infer that you are racist for disagreeing with me."

Nice one, jeremy. Couldn't have done better myself.

Pookie, I couldn't possibly think something as blatantly racist as you being 'uppity', because I am black, and according to the rules, the two are mutually exclusive. Oh and here is a question for you: where is your defense against these comments accusing Perry of hating women? Do you agree with them? Or do you think they aren't valid enough to comment on, while what should have amounted to a throwaway line in a review was?

I must say, this has been a surprisingly educational comments section so far. AB experienced her first Tyler Perry film, I learned that there was a whole other layer of misogyny and disrespect in his films (which I fully intend to point out to those in my family that call themselves fans), and so far, only one truly negative response. That could marked down as a win, yes?

Although, it is the weekend, and quite possibly the real deluge won't start until folks get here from Google or some such. Oh well.

Tyler Perry's movies are so bad that they are completely unwatchable to me. And it's not because I'm white and it's not because I just don't "get" movies with an all black cast dealing with supposedly "black" issues. His movies are just simply BAD. Every possible stereotype that you can think of when it comes to black people are in his movies. But somehow that's OK, because he's black. Whatever!

And another thing. Someone please explain to me why Tyler Perry always feels the need to put his name in front of the titles of all his movies. I guess the fact that he acted in the movie (if you can call it acting), directed the movie (if you can call it directing) and wrote the movie (if you can call it writing) isn't enough for people to figure out that it's his movie. Maybe he thinks the audience is too stupid to figure that out or maybe he just really loves himself. I'm going to go with both.

There are a lot of really good black directors making really good movies. Tyler Perry isn't one of them. And he never will be.

How many times has Pajiba reviewed some Hillary Duff teenybopper flick and ended by pointing out that while it's largely meritless, pre-teen girls will flock to it and love it for what it is? According to some people on this thread, we should go back and accuse those reviewers of being ageist. How dare the reviewer identify their own biases and point of view, but still have the wider understanding of the film industry targeting demographics.
Ageist pigs!!!

"The story's premise involves four upscale black couples who take annual weeklong vacations to exotic destinations, and during these vacations, they ask themselves Why Did I Get Married? "

Um, isn't this the same movie as "The Four Seasons" which was written by, directedy by, and starred Alan Alda? Here's the IMDB synopsis: Three middle-aged wealthy couples take vacations together in Spring, Summer, Autumn and Winter. Along the way we are treated to mid-life, marital, parental and other crises.

BWeaves: Excellent observation, and if I may add, it also featured one of the best music scores... EVAR.

Although, it is the weekend, and quite possibly the real deluge won't start until folks get here from Google or some such. Oh well.

Before frequenting Pajiba it had never occurred to me that some people must sit at their computers mindlessly Googling movies, actors and bands that they love just so that they can jump to their defence in the face of a negative review. Alas, Daddy's Little Girls taught me better.

Although, it was the comments section from that review that made me become a regular Pajiban so I suppose we have that to thank Perry for.

Personally, the only thing I've ever taken away from a Tyler Perry film is that all women are evil and sow the seeds of any right thinking man's destruction. Nice. And so very biblical. I can't get into any kind of discussion on the race element of this review purely because I know that Vermillion already has or is going to make every point that I want to and will probably back it up better. Kudos.

Does the title grate on the ear a little bit? I keep wanting to restate it to "Why Did I Marry?"
Sorry, sometimes the inner nit-picker in me bursts out.

One bright spot in this movie it seems is that Terry Perry did not put on a dress and bad wig. Seriously, Perry needs to send Flip Wilson a check for his drag riding shtick to success.

After reading the review and comment thread, I (largely uninitiated to Perry's unique brand of entertainment) see the sexism inherent in his female characters. Which seems interesting considering his target audience, or at least the audience making him such a hit, is largely female.

Does this mean they buy into his BS about women being the cause of their own relationship dysfunction and that the only thing bringing a successful man down is his harpy of a wife/girlfriend?

There's a lot more going on here than I realized.

I just thought Tyler Perry was a nutty dude who like to dress up like the larger, black version of Sophia from The Golden Girls.

Aw, fuck, stop the black and white thing among commenters, please!

What the reviewer was VERY CLEARLY saying is that the guy makes his films with a very specific target audience in mind. Pookie was way out there with his/hers "interpretation" of everything, that's almost a given. That's the usual rabid speech, which you can be sure will take place whenever someone talks about race, no matter what.

Look, I loved the cartoon The Boondocks for all the, IMHO, incredibly correct criticism it offers about white people, black people and whatever colored people are out there. They just talk about *people being stupid*, not only black this, white that. I've never seen a movie by this Tyler Perry individual, but you know what? Sounds like a terrible movie from the description, whoever the intended audience is, whoever the director is. If the reviewer thinks the guy is too inclined to please this or that audience - and that is a perfectly possible thing to do, by language, actors, situations and all the rest -, then the reviewer is just saying it there.

Now, Vermillion, about "the rules", I'm 99% by your side in all this, until you go and say racism and being black are mutually exclusive. Sorry, that was just plain silly. Being discriminatory ("racist" is simply "discriminatory by race") serves whoever wants it to be used. It does *not* mean to hate black people.

"Marcus has been emasculated by his more successful wife, and so he hits back by sticking his dick in other women."
How much do we LOVE having a woman on Pajiba's regular paylist? If I weren't already addicted to this site I'd become now. I love you Agent Bedhead

"Can't we all just get along?
Apparently not.

Okay, first off:

Pookie - Don't hate on Agent Bedhead. Vermillion made an eloquent argument for that so I'll just add that Agent Bedhead did not make any derogatory statements in her review towards black people (of which I am one) and that film makers (white, black, asian, etc.)always have a target audience in mind for their movies and it is up to the viewer if they want to go along for the ride and find a theme that relates to his or her particular life.

Vermillion - Thank you, brother, for being the voice of reason in this debate and also proving that black people don't all share the same opinions. Even though we may share the same color and culture, we all have different life experiences.

However, Vermillion and Gargumma - Black people can be bigoted, prejudiced, etc. but we cannot be racist. Why, you ask? Because racisim is about discimination of other races through power. Right now, whites have the power in most, if not all, institutions in this country and therefore if they use power in the form of discriminatory practices they indeed are practicing racism. When blacks or some other minority group gain power in all facets of American life and discriminate against whites or any other group then blacks will become racists. As I said, blacks can be as bigoted, prejudiced, etc. as a KKK member but until we are in complete power over whites we cannot be racist (something I hope does not come to pass - blacks as racists - I want to live in a peaceful world). I believe the word "racism" is used too casually at times and not always correctly - all a matter of semantics I know but still an important distinction.

Daphne and Khia213 - Thank you for stating that just because you're both black women you don't need to see this film. I too, as a black woman, find no need to see any of Perry's films (although others in my family enjoy them) and not because I don't love my people but because I do not like simplistic themes in storytelling. If someone is going to take himself as seriously as Perry takes himself, he is going to have to back up his themes and sermons in a more complex and thoughtful way if he wants to reach me. As far as I see it, he is on the same level as Paul Haggis - they want to make important statements but they do so on a level that reaches no higher than the lowest common denominator.

RAT - Thank you for these statements: "There are a lot of really good black directors making really good movies. Tyler Perry isn't one of them. And he never will be." Something that needed to be said.

Lastly, thank you to everyone who participated in the discussion here, so far, and to Agent Bedhead for a great review. It is wonderful to see the discussion take a mostly civil tone about this film and even race. However, one most remember that this review is not about race but about a medicore film written, directed, and staring a medicore talent. The good news in all of this is that black film makers can make entertainment that is just as crappy as white film makers and be called on it just as well as making exceptional films and be celebrated for it; therefore showing that we have truly come along way.

Sorry for such a long post but I just wanted to share my thougths.

Peace and love, everybody.

Ok, jen, so that seems to be just a glitch in translation. I'm not American, and English is not my first language. The direct equivalent for racism here means what I said - kinda simple, I guess. But, apparently, in the US it goes a little further (with power and all). No problem there, it's actually good to know that.

After all, I just keep on thinking that doing a movie like this is pretty much a form of discrimination towards a lot of people: blacks (who get stereotyped), whites (who are seen as something apart, whatever way you interpret it), especially women (from what was said in previous comments), and, of course, intelligent people of any race or country. That shouldn't be done by anyone, money shouldn't be spent on that.

I have a feeling Vermillion's "mutually exclusive" comment was probably intended to be tongue-in-cheek. Not that I'd presume to speak for the boy of course, just the impression I get.

It's good to know that black people are just as fucked up as the rest of us.

Whoops! I forgot the tag on that last post. Thanks, Alex The Odd, for helping out. I so wish I could send you a cookie.

The "mutually exclusive" was indeed tongue-in-cheek. I do agree black people can be just as ignorant and bigoted as anyone.

jen310 still makes an excellent point. Like the much ballyhooed (at least on Pajiba) uses of "misogyny" and "censorship", "racism" does get misapplied a bit too often. But I disagree somewhat with her application as well. Racism, as defined by most dictionaries, is simply the opinion that a certain race is intrinsically superior to other races or that race is the primary determinant of a person's traits and capabilities, which leads to connotations of superiority.

So black people are fully capable of being racist, but we just cannot oppress the targets of said racism. We do not have a system that intrinsically uses that racism to exploit or decimate those considered inferior. As a black person who has been accused multiple times of having reviled 'white' traits, I know that there are some black people who, by those definitions, can be considered racist.

After reading all the comments, I seem to be the only one to have seen TP's Why did I get married. I must have been the one to make it the number movie one at the box office. And as far as me being a racist, I'm not. Some of my best friends are white. I've been with many white women and all of them will tell you I'm not racist.

Pookie, you must have quite a lot of free time on your hands and deep pockets if you were the sole one responsible. Just because something is popular doesn't mean it is good. Remember, "Norbit" was number one in the box office as well, and I know you wouldn't seriously argue the merits of that film.

Also, no one called you a racist. Now you are just posting knee-jerk reactions. And please tell me those last two lines are a joke, and you aren't seriously using the "some of my best freinds are ____" defense. If you are, then answer me this: would you accept such an excuse from a white person?

But if that is what you wish: everyone, leave Pookie alone. He is mad that there are people who don't like the same stuff he does, and that is totally unfair. So let's stop picking on Tyler Perry and his films so that he can feel better.

Yes Vermillion the last two lines are indeed jokes, I'm working on some new material. It must get boring for you to be oh so positive and uplifting in your job as Racial Man, fighting for equality and aginst racism at every turn.

And oddly enough for bitter little me, I found a lot to unify us in this review. How comforting that it doesn't matter whether a movie is made by or for black or white people, it still can hit box office gold by making fun of fat women, turning career-oriented women into caricatures of Lady Macbeth and making sure that the best way for men to bond is to make gay jokes about one of them. If only our leaders would pay attention to these three simple rules, we could get rid of all racial disharmony overnight.

PaddyDog, you are exactly what I'm talking about. You want TP as a movie director to cure all of societies ills with his two hour movie. You don't ask white directors to do it, but you ask TP to do it. That's the burden black directors are faced with every time they make a mainstream movie, your movie must cure us, if not then your movie is a failure.

Pookie, you might find that you could communicate more successfully with other people if you learned to recognize [written] sarcasm.

But Pookie, aren't you arguing that we can't make fun of this movie because a black man directed it? You can't pick and choose parts of comments to debate against. Every single one of your posts only take into acoount a small part of a person's entire comment. You are taking people's words out of context and then get upset when I blatantly did the same to you.

Now if you want to say "This movie is good", fine, say it and argue its merits. But the director's skin color shouldn't be the sole reason. Nobody is asking Perry to do any more or less than any other director that makes crappy films. He can make whatever movie he likes, and he (and his fans) should realize not all criticisms of his work stem from his race. He doesn't have to 'cure' anything, he just has to make a decent movie.

I find it quite interesting that while you continue to harp on the racial aspects, you have yet to acknowledge any of the other complaints, especially the accusations of misogyny. Do you simply not find anything wrong with his portrayal of gender relations in his films? Oh wait, I forgot, of course you don't. There is absolutely nothing wrong with this movie, simply by virtue that it had a balck director.

Just like Fantastic Four and its sequel. They should get a pass as well, don't you think?

Back off, Pookie hating on this one, guys. It's turning into Fox Sports.

It's true, that any director of color, feels some sort of responsibility to "represent their people" when making a film. The truth of the matter is, in most cases, if they didn't worry about that, it'd be a better story. Look at "Fresh". (Though if Boaz Yakim is white, that sure is going to bite me in the ass.)

The fact of the matter is, Agent Bedhead looked at the movie out of racial context. And she didn't like it. Not because they were black. Because the characters are assholes.

And plenty of shitty movies make it number one in the box office during slow weekends.

Misogyny? Vermillion tell me a movie or song that you've enjoyed that didn't have misogyny in it. And yes there were things in the movie I didn't like, I thought the lighting was bad. That was my attempt at sacasm which Heqit thought I couldn't recognize. He can make whatever movie he likes, and he (and his fans) should realize not all criticisms of his work stem from his race, oh ok. So now you think that he thinks that every criticism he get is all about race, and you know this because I'm sure you've interviewed him, again my attempt at sarcasm. Do you simply not find anything wrong with his portrayal of gender relations in his films? Vermillion I don't think TP is trying to do brain surgery with his movies. If I were looking for something to make me consider mans inhumanity towards his fellow man I would go rent Passions of the Christ. Speaking of misogyny Vermillion, do you enjoy porn?

Insertclevernamehere, plenty of shitty movies make it number one in the box office during slow weekends. So now TP's movie was number one because it was a slow weekend, oh ok. I don't want to hear that slow weekend shit, not when TP had to go up against that guy that get the women wet, you know, George Clooney. My only problem with Agent Bedhead was the race thing stated at the very first line of the review. I'll bet a million dollars that when Agent Bedhead review a movie by a white director, the very first line of the review doesn't begins with I don't think this director make movies for (insert color here). As far as the movie Fresh goes, I've never seen it, so I'll agree with whatever point you was trying to make.

Eh, no, Pookie. If you re-read my comments, you will see that my point is that these same three annoying standards occur in ALL bad movies whether aimed at white or black audiences (or others) and whether made by black or white directors (or others).

Pookie, I have to admit I was a little shocked by this little number:

"Misogyny? Vermillion tell me a movie or song that you've enjoyed that didn't have misogyny in it."

So ... misogyny is SO UBIQUITOUS that we should not be offended or disappointed by it. Wow. Um. First of all, I have indeed seen movies and heard songs that had little to no misogyny. Secondly, I thought they were in general more admirable works than those that did contain misogyny. Thirdly, I sure hope you wouldn't find "All movies are racist" an acceptable excuse for continuing that kind of despicable tradition. Remember when everything was segregated? Do you think maybe it's a good thing that we made an effort to equalize the races? I know I do.

Now do you think maybe it's a good thing to make an effort to equalize the sexes? I know I do. But judging from your comments, you think racism is the only unacceptable kind of discrimination. I would hope most of us would refuse to countenance all kinds.

enjoy porn??? can we not think of a more intelligent argument? (sorry)

I love Flip Wilson.
And I miss him
----------------------------
You claim that Tyler Perry's films are targeted at black audiences but I think upscale white power couples will relate and indentify more with the premise of this film then working class blacks.
I certainly can't relate to upscale power couples of any color who take annual weeklong vacations to exotic destinations.

What exactly is a "Tyler Perry"? And why does he need to promote every movie as his own?

Sure Claire we can equalize the sexes, as soon as that knight in shining armor shit goes away. So then that means that when I take a women out to dinner I shouldn't be in such a rush to pick up the tab. See Claire your problem is that you want to equalize the sexes, but as soon as a man fails to recognize your inner beauty then he's up shit creek.Enjoy porn??? can we not think of a more intelligent argument? (sorry). No. Claire your assignment is to tell me two movies and two songs that you like that don't have any misogyny in them.

I'm late to the comment thread but let me add my two cents:

Pookie, I think your point would have gone over a little less caustically had the question been asked a different way. Like, "How is it that no Asian/Mexican/etc films ever get the intro: such and such is not intended for my particular shade of albino?"

Unfortunately, I think the answer would have been: cuz those movies were good. (Amores Perros, Raise the Red Lantern (an oldie but goodie), etc etc.

TP does not make good movies. I know, because I watched one on tv the other night and it sucked. Hard. TP makes movies that play into the stereotype that if the Man ain't keeping a brother down, the women are. Which is such bullcrap.

So Stella what you are saying is that if the movie is good than it's ok to come with a racist opening. If you don't like TP's movies great, if you do, again great. Having seen ALL of TP's movie I will respectfully disagree that he doesn't make good movies.

I'm saying you would have come off as less of a prick with a burr up his ass.

I get the distinct impression that the only one who thinks the comment was racist is you.

Seems to me most of the folks got that the reviewer was not actually saying she didn't get the movie cuz she's not black; she didn't get the movie cuz it was so bad.

Now maybe, just maybe, on the off chance there was some secret message in the movie for black people only that explained its greatness (in code, if you will), maybe THAT'S why she didn't 'get it'.

But no, she was reaffirmed by other viewers, some of whom are black, that there was no secret message, nothing that she didn't get and they did. We too share her confusion as to why this movie is doing so well, when in reality, it's just a bad movie.

I think Garfield's little teddy needs a hug. And maybe a little sleepy-time.

Having seen ALL of TP's movie I will respectfully disagree that he doesn't make good movies.

That is just it. You don't 'respectfully disagree'. And once again, you only read what you want to from those that don't share your viewpoint. I say you don't 'respectfully disagree' because you are still arguing that the only reason folks don't like his movie is because he is black. We think the movie sucks, you don't. And that would be fine and dandy, if only you would quit associating dislike of his movies with racism. You continue to insult many an intelligence with this insistence of racial bias that isn't there.

The issue about the line you keeping complaining about has been explained. Agent Bedhead did not start this, commenters like you did. They came flowing to this site to reviews of Perry's previous works. When they read a dissenting opinion, they bombarded the comments sections with accusations of racism, since the reviewers here are white. Not one time did they say the movie was good in and of itself; it was only good because it was made by a black person for black people, and a white person could not judge it objectively. In a misguided attempt to ameliorate said complaints, the reviewers tried to compromise by admitting the racial differences from the start. But this was not good enough. No, anything short of saying "This movie deserves an Oscar and Tyler Perry is blessed by God" drew complaints, only now, they did what you are doing and are harping on the very issue they tried to relieve. They are damned if they do, damned if they don't.

Tell me the honest truth: would this movie be worth half as much to you if it was about Mexicans? Or Asians? Or if a non-black director made it? You complain about racism, but do your feelings extend to all races, or just your own? Oh and since you used popularity to gauge credibility before: since you are the only one so far to even continue your whining, and since quite a number of folks have come out against you, does that mean we win? Or do the numbers only count when they are in your favor?

Stella, why does it bother you that a movie that in your eyes is so bad, is doing so well ( number #1 to be exact) at the box office. I'm still trying to figure out her reason for opening up with. Until now, I've never watched a Tyler Perry film, but as I understand it, Perry doesn't really make films intended for my particular shade of albino. Stella I'm still waiting for the two movies and two songs that you like that don't have any misogyny in them.

Stella I'm still waiting for the two movies and two songs that you like that don't have any misogyny in them.

But I thought that was Claire's "assignment," Pookie! If you're going to teach us all properly (and insist on homework while you're at it,) then you need to be fair, and make people to their own assignments. Tell you what, why dodn't you assign Stella the task of finding the OED definition of the word "respect." That way, she gains valuable research skills (on par with Claire's, I'm sure) and you get the benefit of reading the definition of a word that you have sadly been unfamiliar with. It's a win-win situation!!

Geez, Pookie, the reason I can't find two songs that don't have misogyny in them is cuz, well, there are SO MANY OF THEM.

And the reason I'm so appalled that bad movies do so well is that it speaks to what I feel is the continuing dumbification of our nation. Why can't directors like Tyler-fucking-Perry give us REAL stories about REAL couples struggling with some REAL issues. Instead we're asked to ingest the same ol stupid stereotypical bullshit regarding black men. And apparently women - who can't do much else but emasculate their men, while, God forbid, having careers and making something of themselves.
Well no thanks. I'll wait thank you very much for a much better director to come along and tell a story that shows "black, middle class, NORMAL folk".
Plus I second everything Vermillion said in the early posts, he says it much better than I can and makes my point fifteen times over.

Song 1: Earl Greyhound - "SOS"
Song 2: Mute Math - "Typical"

Nice try with the songs Stella, I figured you would go that route, picking two alternative rock bands. I'm going to tell you why to pick those two bands. You pick those bands because you didn't want it to be known that although you talk about hating misogyny deep in your heart you don't mind a little misogyny every now and then. That's why you picked two obscure bands. That why you can sound like you are above the masses. More than likely you like rap and porn,and hey,it's ok if you do. Why can't directors like Tyler-fucking-Perry give us REAL stories about REAL couples struggling with some REAL issues, there was a show like that but you probably didn't like the Cosby show. Pinkcheese, thank you for setting me right, I'm sure you are the bomb at dinner parties. Vermillion I could care less if you like TP's movies or not. My problem with Agent Bedhead is what was the need to tell us that TP didn't make movies for her "particular shade of albino" she injected color into this, now will you please tell me why does matter what color the director is? Call me crazy but when I go to movies I don't look to see if the director is black or white. To me Lucas, Lee, Tarrantino are great directors, when I see those names I go for it, more times than not those directors hit than miss.I don't sit back and say, let me see the color of the director then I'll decide if I should spend my money.

Agent Bedhead did not say that all African American directors make movies intended for African American audiences. She said Tyler Perry does. I am inclined to agree that Tyler Perry films do seem targeted towards African American, more Christian based audiences (though I have not seen all of them). This is not to say that ALL African Americans are the same or that ALL African Americans will like this movie. No more than all women will like movies labeled as "chick flicks." It just means that there might be some common ground among the members of a certain demographic that will make a movie, book, or song appeal to that group more than to others.

Okay, I am going to say this as clearly as I can, so that you will get the message:

BEDHEAD ONLY SAID THAT BECAUSE BLACK PEOPLE PREVIOUSLY CAME HERE COMPLAINING ABOUT HOW A WHITE PERSON DIDN'T UNDERSTAND A 'BLACK' MOVIE.

If no one had did that, there would not have been a reason for her to say it. It is not an intentional slight, it is a response to what has happened before. This seems to be the key idea you can't seem to pick up. Once again, you only pay attention to the parts of comments you want to, the parts you can whine about.

Now, as far as the music issue goes, well you have certainly shown your true colors as far as what you consider 'music'. Quite a leap you have to take from just two song titles to a random person on the internet conspiring to pick two obscure (in your opinion) songs just to make YOU look bad. It couldn't actually be because she might like those songs, could it? Do you sincerely think that just because she picked two songs that aren't blaring on what goes for music channels these days, that her choices are not valid? And then you go on to assume that she watches porn and listens to rap, and then contradict yourself by saying it is okay if she does. Can you suddenly read minds now? Are yopu suddenly privy to her ever waking moment and her greatest secrets? Otherwise, you are pretty much talking out of your ass.

You know what? Forget it. I am doing it again. I am letting some thick-headed narcissist rile me up AGAIN. I am walking away from this. If you are simply a troll, congrats, you succeeded in showing what a jackass you can be. If not, and if you are being completely serious, then I feel sorry for you, in that you can't even see how much you are stumbling over your own words. This is probably the first time I ever wished for the former, because the latter would be a tragedy. That last post of yours proves you have nothing of any real consequence to say anymore, and to keep feeding you would be a disservice to the others here.

By the way:

Two VERY popular non-misogynistic songs:

"Happy Birthday" (the official most popular and most recorded song on the planet) and "Bohemian Rhapsody" by Queen (a well-known song in it's own right). And yes, it isn't a rap song. Apparently, there is music outside of that little comfort zone you built. And people DO listen to it.