"The Walking Dead" - "Made To Suffer": In This House Of Suffering, Don't Want But Just One Thing
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"The Walking Dead" — "Made To Suffer": In This House Of Suffering, Don't Want But Just One Thing

By TK | TV Reviews | December 4, 2012 | Comments ()


If ever there was an episode that perfectly — perfectly — demonstrated everything that is both right and wrong with “The Walking Dead,” it was the eighth episode and mid-season finale, “Made To Suffer.” The good news is that the positivesfar outweighed the negatives. It was a gripping, tension filled episode that featured several things that we simply have never seen before in the show. It featured new characters, new problems, new conflicts. As for the bad… we’ll get to that too.

But first, the good. What I found so engrossing about the episode was that it reflected a new sense of purpose for Rick and company. There was a determination, a harsh and unyielding drive that possessed the group, and they are stronger and better for it. The search for Maggie and Glenn was harrowing and almost exhaustingly tension-filled. From their quick and brutal submission when they were hiding out in someone’s house to their daring, flash-bang rescue, it was all a gripping, riveting affair. Part of what made it so satisfying was that same group dynamic that we’d seen in the first episode coming into play. This group is experienced and now knows how to work together, playing off each other’s strengths, and as such the action was coordinated and fluid, even in its most desperate moments. All the while, in the back of our minds, we’re playing out the confusion that must be pounding inside the head of Daryl — realizing that not only is his brother alive, but that he may well be the enemy. And Rick, to his credit, had another moment of true leadership, forcing Daryl to make the right choice then and there, regardless of familial bonds, because the truth is that his family has changed, blood or not. Although with that ending, who knows what the future would bring.

Confession: I’ve always maintained that if this show really wanted to show some balls, they should kill off Daryl. Much as I love the character, it would be an absolutely beautifully devastating blow. Killing off Laurie, T-Dog, Shane, Dale? In the grand scheme of things, not actually that risky a play. They were all either unpopular or irrelevant. Killing off Daryl, though… now that would be something.

But I digress.

But this was also something different. This wasn’t a hack-and-slash your way through a herd of zombies. It wasn’t a fistfight or a couple of shots being exchanged. This was a battle, a war fought viciously and desperately. This same sense of furious, no-holds-barred violence was on full display for the brawl between The Governor and Michonne. What made the scene so effective was what happened before — early on, the scene with The Governor and Penny was one of the most awful, beautiful, twisted, tragic things we’ve seen. However hideous a person he is and has become, one couldn’t help but feel something there. It was perverse and insane and yet — and yet — in the pit of my stomach, that scene was one of the tougher ones.

But it was that scene that demonstrated the stakes of Michonne and The Governor’s fight. The final ending of Penny flipped a switch in him, and his rage was something frightening to behold. It was a unrelenting, frenzied fight, using any and all means. No one was trying to escape, no one was trying to subdue or capture. This was two people hell bent on killing each other with their bare hands, an ugly, wordless, bloody brawl that evoked a visceral, stunned reaction. There are many faults with Michonne’s depiction (we’ll get there), but the brutality of this scene showed us fully the physicality and power of character. And the glass through the eye — I’ll admit it, it got a “holy shit!” out of me.

Yet in some ways the most intriguing part was the introduction of Tyrese (Chad Coleman) and his brave, terrified companions. This particular sequence was excellent for a variety of reasons. Their chase in the woods was a tense, tragic setup, and then the discovery of the prison was actually pretty thrilling — the injection of new blood is always welcome. But what made it most impressive was, yet again, Chandler Riggs just running away with Carl, handling himself with a sad, burdensome maturity that goes both recognized and respected by Tyrese. The lockdown of the newest players was one of the more emotionally powerful scenes in the show.

That said, the other great scene at the prison was with Carol, newly confident and 1000% more interesting Carol, patiently lecturing Axle, the suddenly unpleasantly creepy hillbilly. Kudos to Melissa McBride for patiently waiting it out with her character and finally having a chance to flex a little acting muscle.

But. And the “but” is a sizable one here, folks. First of all, I’m stunned at how quickly my prediction would come to pass. I figured Oscar would last at least two more episodes after the introduction of Tyrese. But no, apparently “The Walking Dead” is incapable of having two black male characters at any given moment, and so this week, Oscar was lost in the firefight in Woodbury. It would be funny if it wasn’t so absolutely ridiculous.

But more so, is the dilemma of Michonne. This episode featured some of the best Michonne has had to offer, but honestly? From a writing and characterization standpoint, it’s simply not enough. There were two critical moments — and I do mean critical moments — where the writing completely and utterly fucking failed this week, and they both involved Michonne. First, her silent and inexplicable vanishing when the group arrived at Woodbury. It’s stupid, it’s dangerous, and it’s annoying as all hell. I get that she has a personal vendetta, but it was still another instance of forced dramatization, a boneheaded decision that seems uncharacteristic of a survivor like her. The second is after the fight with The Governor, and her confrontation with Andrea. “He tried to kill me, Andrea.” “He keeps a zombie daughter.” “I’m here with friends.” There are a dozen things she could have said that would have defused the situation. Yet instead, it was cryptic silence, and then disappearing.

And I know, you guys. I know that you can explain it away. We can chalk it up to the stress and difficulty of the situation, we can allow for the seriousness of her vendetta against the Governor. But at some point we have to realize that in the past eight episodes of television, the poorest decision-making has consistently been by Michonne. This is not because they’ve written a complex and unusual character. It is, unfortunately, simply bad writing. Bad writing that is all the more baffling considering how good virtually every other second of this episode was.

And now, a break. “The Walking Dead” won’t return until February, and unlike last season, I’m sorry to see it go this time around. The shows few flaws are becoming more and more glaring, yet at the same time the show as a whole has become so much better, so much smarter and more nuanced and more tragic and terrifying. “The Walking Dead” has finally found its way, and despite some frustrating, disappointing issues that cannot and should not be ignored, issues that extend beyond bad writing and into some genuine sociological questions — in spite of those things, there is a show worth watching here. And fortunately, a show worth waiting for.

See you guys next year.

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Comments Are Welcome, Bigots and Trolls Are Not

  • ELee

    Apparently being a black character on TWD is akin to being a Highlander. Seriously, THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE.

  • MNMann

    I cannot get over how idiotic the writers think we are. When I watch episodes I have to keep on repeating 'its a soap opera WITH ZOMBIES' to keep sane.
    First, this episode starts with a screaming woman. Now supposedly this woman has been a survivor of a zombie apocalypse for almost a year, and when she sees a zombie, starts ringing the dinnerbell for every zombie or bad human in hearing range. Worse, none of her companions tell her to STFU. How did THEY survive for so long?
    We have a hermit who lives in the 'red zone' who has unlocked doors and survives by hiding under his blanket? Did the biters just ignore him for a year?
    How in the WORLD is the governor feeding all those people? I dont see crops anywhere. And having fires every 5 feet, its a wonder they have any trees left in a 20 mile radius. Do they have working toilets, fresh water?
    Its hard to tell how fast or slow time passes in the show, but c'mon. We are supposed to think that no one would take a walk around the prison to see if any of the fences or walls are down? Anything useful or dangerous nearby? Anyone living in any of the other cell blocks? These are things SURVIVORS do, if they dont they are zombiechow..
    Now I know WHY we get these things, so the story can be easily told.. But its annoying as hell.. I do enjoy the show..
    Wonder if Lori will be back as a walker (maybe Carl closed his eyes when he shot?)

  • peachykeen5014

    1. I don't feel Darryl will be killed off, because if they decide to do that they're pretty much going to lose all that support they won back this season after how terrible season 2 was.

    2. How did Michonne NOT KNOW THE CHILD LOCKED IN THE CLOSET CHAINED TO THE WALL BREATHING HEAVILY WAS A WALKER?! She traveled for close to a year with two of those things chained to her and she didn't recognize the signs? Come on.

    3. I walked away from the tv and got a drink during her fight with The Governor because the outcome pretty much didn't matter.

  • I think the scene with Andrea and Michonne was the most telling of Michonne's character that we've seen, even more than when she killed her pets. I don't think she needed to say anything, and if she would have, it would have ruined the scene for me. I think her silence (knowing that Andrea wouldn't shoot her, and even if she tried she'd miss anyhow) said exactly what it needed to. She knew Andrea would see the wall of tanks with the heads and the dead zombie kid and question it. And by the way, how fucking awesome was the Katana through the kid's head move? That, by far, is one of my favorite scenes this season, closely followed by the glass in the governor's eye.

    Regardless, Andrea is a fucking idiot and my hatred for her has taken over that which I previously kept for Lori, and trust me when I say that I don't miss Lori at all. I don't think we'll see Andrea die anytime soon though, and that makes me sad. Rick's group is now connected to Woodbury in more than one way, so as far as I'm concerned she's useless now.

    I also would have preferred to see Daryl & Merle meet in a more confrontational way, not where (it seems) they'll have to partner up to survive. Though I suppose that is what the show's all about... I think it would have been more effective to see them about to shoot one another and realize at the same time who the other was.

  • sherlockzz

    I found my self wondering why they didn't just introduce Tyrese as Oscar's character rather than pull this seemingly meaningless switch.

    Michone's unchaining a hooded, snarling, staggering girl in ragged clothes was beyond stupid.

    Carl is awesome this season.

    Andrea, well, love is purportedly blind. But, my money is that she will be the reason Daryl and / or Merle get out of the pickle they're in.

  • Pat

    Did we ever get a reason why Michonne wanted to kill the Governor? I know she doesn't like the guy, but I still found it a bit odd that this somehow translated to murder.

  • LJ

    He stole Andrea from her then sent Merle to kill her. Revenge. That's why.

  • ZombieMrsSmith

    We don't know what Michone said to Andrea before they decided to walk out together. It's entirely possible that Andrea stayed behind on purpose as a spy, while Michone went out looking for reinforcements, since she and the Gov obviously didn't get along and he wasn't going to tell Andrea anything as long as Michone was still around. They couldn't have said anything after the fight with the Gov. because he was still alive. Maybe Andrea is just using her feminine wiles for good?

  • That's a whole lot of wishful thinking!

  • ZombieMrsSmith

    I totally agree, but I always want to give characters the benefit of the doubt when they are acting really, really dumb.

  • Here's my $0.02 about Michonne. Her actions/reactions scream of someone that grew up without anyone or anything to depend on, and she sees herself as the only person she can trust. The scene with Rick at the prison when she shows up with the basket of baby formula (I love how they're magically finding all this *unexpired* formula wherever they look), passes out with Walkers advancing and *still* acts like Rick is going to kill her after he saves her ass, just cements it for me. She seems like someone that grew up in foster care. Not that all children in foster care have horrible experiences, but still. The woman has major trust issues.

    That being said, they could be doing a better job writing her character. The scene with Andrea was annoying, I kept waiting for her to say *something* about finding Rick, but no! That would have been too neat and tidy. Regardless, this season is much better than season two, and I'm looking forward to more!

  • sherlockzz

    I think a flashback to Michonne's childhood where she gets slapped around for things that are not her fault would go a long way to explaining her reticence to talk when things look bad.

  • Pookie

    Well there you have it folks. Not even in the fucking zombie apocalypse can you have two black protagonist.

  • Pookie

    I’m glad I didn’t stick around to watch this, I bailed out around the second or third episode when I realized that “ The Walking Dead” would not under any circumstance have a strong black character without that character being a walking stereotype.

  • Elfrieda

    Does anyone else keep expecting the Governor to suddenly turn into a giant demonic snake? Or have I just seen S3 of Buffy too many times?

    Also, boo for Oscar's sudden death and the way Michonne can't seem to say anything when she really, really ought to.

  • TheOriginalMRod

    Is it just me or does David Morrissey (the Gov.) sound like he is doing an Elvis impersonation?

  • LJ

    Sound and look

  • John G.

    no, he's doing a Liam Neeson plays American impression.

  • David Sorenson

    I always got a doped up Foghorn Leghorn vibe from him. "The wrestling is staged. It's a joke, son! Don't ya get it!"

  • petitesuissesse

    I know that Carl has a fancy hat, but I wouldn't let a kid go towards the screaming. Can you imagine what Rick would do if he came back and Carl was missing? Also, as T-Dog 3.0, why am I listening to this little kid and his grandpa? That did not make sense.

  • Artemis

    It just occurred to me that the show really should have cast a black actor to play Milton. Then we'd have a) another black male character, b) with complex motivations and some moral ambiguity, c) who isn't in the same stereotypical mold as T-Dog and Oscar and Tyrese (meek nerdy scientist vs. big strong fighter), and d) is possibly gay. Plus, lots of possibility for conflict with racist Merle, and a foil for exploring just how deep Woodbury's "traditional" attitude runs.

    And as an added bonus, he would have looked much less like a Gale Boetticher rip-off.

  • John G.

    Michonne could not say those things, because she was too absolutely disgusted that Andrea was on the Governor's side. She realized in that moment that Andrea was lost. She realized that Andrea would rather believe a lie than face the truth.

    She was brave on the outside of Woodbury, because she had to be, but she is always ready to collapse into the welcome arms of any comfort, even horribly creepy comfort. Michonne also feels betrayed, because after everything they shared (which may or may not include a sexual relationship) she turned so quickly to the wrong side, to Mr HeadTank.

    Also, she had to disappear without a word because otherwise Rick would not have let her go, and would have possibly tried to stop her by killing her. My only problem was with Michonne's motivation on killing the Governor. The comic book reason was a little more visceral for me than the show.

  • David Sorenson

    I'll agree with this. I was pretty well stunned that Andrea is still siding with Captain Headquarium over the person that carried her useless ass around for months too.

    And I know they had one line where Andrea said she saved Michonne as often as Michonne saved her, but we all know that ain't how it went down. I'd be surprised to find out that Andrea hadn't spent the months in between with her hand stuck in a pickle jar because she couldn't figure out how to get out of it. This was probably why she was sick in the first episode. She finally got the pickle out (after Michonne caved and broke the jar) and ate the thing causing severe food poisoning.

  • LJ

    Hey are they ever going to explain how Andrea and Mischonne supposedly met? The later doesn't strike me as the type that would rescue Andrea from a night time barn fire or from being encircled by a hord of walkers. Always the self preserver, I'd imagine Michone wouldn't have rescued Andrea from the type of predicament we left her in at the end if season two, especially without knowing her already.

  • David Sorenson

    Michonne did rescue her at the end of season two. She was the hooded figure with the adorable pet zombies and the large letter opener.

  • dorquemada

    Once again, characters have guns pointed at Merle and do not pull triggers. If this was a drinking game item, I'd be in detox.

  • That episode where Lori and T-Dogg died was set up from the cold open as an hour where SHIT WAS GOING TO GO DOWN. Even the 10 minutes between the open and the zombie attack when Glen was saying "Can't we just have one nice day" or whatever was telegraphing what was about to happen in the worst way. Not that I'm complaining - that was the perfect time in the season for an episode like that and it worked (and may be the best episode of the season at this point, I'm not sure). Sometimes that works - letting your audience know that something huge is about to happen and they should sit up and pay attention. However, what also works are those surprise moments that we don't see coming (think Charlie's death in LOST or the woman on Third Watch who got blown in half that one time). If they kill Daryl, that's how they ought to do it. Just completely out of nowhere when everything seems totally chill, just to remind us how out of control their reality is at every moment.

  • lowercase_ryan

    Great write-up. I can't wrap my head around the writing discrepancies. It can be so competent one minute and then mind blowingly abhorrent the next. I think there are some very serious problems in that writers room.

    One thing you forgot to mention: My highlight of the season and what marked the complete evolution of Glenn was him using the walker's bone as a weapon for Maggie. I like Glenn as much if not more than even Daryl at this point. He's become amazing.

  • Bert_McGurt

    So anyone want to start a pool to guess how Tyrese's friend with the shovel dies in the next episode?

  • Aislinn

    I think that's his sister, and I'm guessing either the zombies get her or she falls when the Governor attacks the prison.

  • John G.

    I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess...zombie bite?

  • Artemis

    I'll go with the guy who said "well, all of the other ladies were taken, so that 17 year old is looking pretty good..." Beth has a bunch of people looking out for her, but with the newcomers distracted by meeting our group I could see shovel-lady getting cornered by him somewhere. And it is so completely this show's MO to put a spare black person in the new group because they knew they needed someone for the creepy dude to kill.

  • The Replicant Brooke

    "Ok For Michonne, we're just gonna need to you tilt your face towards the floor. There you go. Now with just your eyes, look up. Sneer. PERFECT."

  • Artemis

    This show has me more conflicted than pretty much anything else on TV right now. Because you're right, TK, that there has been a dramatic improvement in the pacing and plotting this season, to the point where it is once again engaging and fun to watch (though still not, to my mind, anywhere close to as good as "the best" dramas on television right now, as it continues to be unable to seriously grapple with moral questions or build compelling characters the way that shows like Breaking Bad or Game of Thrones do). But even as the show has improved in its storytelling, its relationship with its female and black characters has shown no such improvement, and in that sense it is both uncomfortable and infuriating to watch.

    The characterization of women has, you might argue, shown some improvement. Carol is showing signs of progress (she still hasn't been given a ton to do, but when you think of Season 1 Carol she has grown in leaps and bounds to be able to pull a creepy guy away from the teenager he's menacing and then calmly shut down his advances on both the teen and Carol herself), and Maggie continues to be a bright spot in an otherwise pretty sad record. But at the same time, Michonne is SO disappointing to watch -- she's now been around for 8 episodes and we know literally NOTHING about her except that she holds a grudge. You're not wrong to note that she is making the most irrational decisions of anyone on the show. For someone who is apparently so capable and beloved in the comics, I just don't understand why the writers are leaning on "Michonne is a stubborn idiot" as the plot-point that has driven half the action this season.

    And Andrea, oh Andrea. Let's assume that the safety of Woodbury lured her in, and that the Governor's creepiness was all hidden from her and visible only to us (a big assumption, given what we know she knows). Why Why WHY when faced with a room full of zombie heads in fish tanks and a zombie daughter on a leash would she accept some bullshit explanation and go on being cozy with this guy?? The answer is no reason. None. I seriously, seriously am starting to think that Andrea is the living embodiment of some writer's belief that bitches be crazy.

    And then there's the black men problem. Which goes far beyond this episode: Morgan gave way to T-Dog who gave way to Oscar who gave way to Tyrese. And Glen Mazzara's explanation for Oscar's death? Well, they liked him and all, but they needed someone to die so that the group didn't get an absolute win over the Governor, and Oscar was the expendable one. Which is all well and good until you realize that the reason the black men are always the expendable characters is because the show doesn't bother giving the black characters a central role or making them people we care about. They wanted to kill someone else off in the big fight that lead to Lori's death, and who was the only one without a larger arc still playing out? T-Dog. They wanted to have someone commit suicide at the CDC to drive home the hopelessness of it all, and who was the one who hadn't been given a personality or ties to anyone else in the group? Jacqui. It may not be deliberate, but it's not a coincidence. And yes, now we have Tyrese who should be a real character with a real story and a real role to play -- except that was what everyone thought about Michonne, and look where we are with her now.

    So yes, it's good to see Carol showing some growth, and the enormous improvement in Carl, and a more interesting villain in the Governor, and Glenn becoming increasingly bad-ass, and the upcoming conflict between Daryl and Merle. But even as I enjoy those things, I can't forget that the black men have been wholly disposable and only one is allowed on the show at a time, that the one black woman is the source of 90% of the stupid decisions this season, and that the primary female character is maddeningly stupid in ways that are directly related to whoever she's banging at the time.

    And those things don't just make me angry in the abstract (though they definitely do that), they are also part of what holds the show back from being as good as the best dramas on television. When you don't make an effort to use half of your characters effectively, for whatever reason, your storytelling suffers. If we knew something about Michonne, I might have cared whether or not the Governor killed her -- as it was, I really didn't have any kind of emotion watching that fight because I knew they wouldn't kill off their Big Bad yet and I really don't care whether Michonne lives or dies. If Andrea had really grappled with what she saw in that room -- had a fight with the Governor, confronted his scientist-lackey or Merle, gone digging through his room looking for an explanation -- and then given some indication of why she was staying (maybe obviously playing along despite her revulsion because she decided that being safe in Woodbury was worth putting up with a psychopath?), that would have been both interesting and a great character moment. Instead, the show completely squandered the relevation of the Governor's insanity; the viewers know he's creepy, but if none of the characters know or react to it then it's not driving any of the dramatic action within the show-world. If Oscar had stuck around, he and Tyrese might have had the conversation T-Dog tried to have with Dale back in Season 2: about whether and how much race and other social markers matter to people now, and how they feel their treatment as black men in a group of mainly white people has changed (for good or bad) since the world went to hell. But that's not a conversation we'll ever see, because the show has a no black dudeS policy firmly (if unconsciously) in place.

    In short: my feelings about this show have changed little since this point last year. It's a lot less boring now, but it's still infuriatingly squandering a lot of its potential, and it's doing so in ways that are just offensive.

  • Ozioma

    *slow clap*

  • Persephone69

    *clap..... clap..... clap.....* perfect

  • I think the "1 black guy at a time" thing smells a lot more like a network that doesn't want their biggest show to be seen as a "BLACK" show rather than incompetence from the writers. Michonne being such a big part of the series this year (her tepid writing aside) has been lethal for black men. Not defending it, just looking at it through a different lens.

  • GDI

    I understand that the comic version of that confrontation of Michonne and the Governor is far too brutal and drawn out for any channel currently (I believe that even Starz or HBO would be far too squeamish to attempt it), but the preceding events justified it, kinda. It showed how screwed up Michonne was internally and it slightly makes you feel pity for the tyrant bastard.

    In the show, that fight was probably one of the best moments this show has ever had. My hopes were, as unlikely as they happened to be, that the mockery that is this incarnation of the Governor would finally meet his end. But the ending to that fight was such an anti-climatic form of blue balls that I believe Robert Kirkman might be a eunuch now (don't ask me how). Stupid Andrea.

    I've been contrary to the popular opinion of this show, as people in the media and in person have been mindlessly drooling over it (which is unfortunate when trying to watch it with people who are rabid about the show).
    But I'll be damned TK, this is one of the times where I agree with a Pajibian writer's (editor; author?) opinion.

  • Utopian

    I'm not normally one to jump on the race wagon, but it's hard to not see TK's point here. Based on his loyalty-testing shooting of Andrew, I thought Oscar was going to take over the Tyrese role. I'm stoked Tyrese is now on the show, but why even introduce Oscar in the meantime is my question? His death didn't add anything to the episode, and was a terrible ending for a character that showed pormise. And yes, I will agree that Michonne is being pants-shittingly underwritten, but I think the second half of the season will open her up a bit more. Let's hope so.

    Other than that, the episode was fantastic. David Morrissey is KILLING IT.

  • John G.

    because a zombie show needs casualties.

  • RilesSD

    Yep, someone/some people had to die during that firefight. Why not have saved more of the prisoners, make the audience feel they were becoming part of the group, and then have them die in the firefight? It's just so comical that it was only Two-Dog. Completely agree with TK. The second the firefight started, I knew he was a goner.

  • John G.


  • cj

    I just wanted to comment that watching Walking Dead in a dark theater full of fans is a completely different experience than watching it at home, and if there are watch parties near you, definitely do it. Of course the same frustrations are still there, but there's something fun about cheering on these apocalyptic idiots with a group of rowdy fanboys and girls. Also, Chris Hardwick isn't as annoying cutting tension in a theater as he is in your living room.

  • RudeMorgue

    Recently completed the Walking Dead Game by Telltale Games. Absolutely devastating, and, while not filled with non-white characters, has four or five prominent ones, including the protagonist. I cannot recommend it highly enough -- the storytelling is fantastic and the choices are brutal. I felt a lot more for some of the deaths in the game than I have for ones on the show, and I like the show.

  • Tereasa

    I can watch the show and not have issues with the creepiness of it all, but that game gave me Zombie nightmares.

  • elenaran

    Best episode of the series, without a doubt. I was completely riveted throughout.

  • When Andrea walked in and Michonne didn't say anything, I almost lost my shit. Michonne is clearly meant to be observant and clever, so clearly she has put together that Andrea used to be a part of Rick's group. She knows that Merle knew Andrea in Atlanta, and I think she actually heard Merle mention Andrea when he kidnapped Maggie and Glen. Why wouldn't she say something? You're right. It can't be anything but bad writing, unless we're meant to think she has some sort of learning disability. Maybe she's autistic and just has a savant-like ability with swords...

    Also, what's the deal with all these mid-season finales? When did it become the norm to just stop in the middle of a season? It's driving me crazy.

  • lillie

    Check out FB....they kill Daryl and rioting abounds. I'd be right there with them. He is the only character whose death would make me leave this show. Although, I'd hate to see Carl go as well. I can't believe I just wrote that, because last season he was the one I wanted to die the most. I've never experienced such a complete and total change in how I have felt about a television character.

  • I found the deaths of Shane and T-Dog (even Lori, because of Carl and Rick) to be devastating enough--I don't think we need Daryl killed. A few of the originals ought to be kept around, and it would almost make more sense to see Rick killed than Daryl.

  • I'm glad someone else thought that about Lori's death. Normally a scene like that would have sent me running for the tissues, but I hated her so much I was like, oh thank god finally! Rick's reaction to seeing Maggie with the baby is what turned on the water works for me.

    I'm still convinced we're going to see a Zombie Lori at some point. Her coup de grace occurred off screen, which is usually a tip off. Unless that morbidly obese Walker Rick finds during his breakdown episode is supposed to have eaten all of her? I find that hard to believe.

  • Bodhi

    Greg Nicotero says that walker ate her, so I doubt she'll come back. It would be interesting, though

  • Bodhi

    Ditto. Rick may be the leader, but Daryl is the heart of the group (and I think Herschel might be the soul, but that's probably because he looks like my dad & I <3 Scott Wilson)

  • I'm APPALLED at what they've turned Andrea into. In the books she is a smart, highly capable character. In the show she's apparently just subject to the whims of whatever psychopath she's letting in her pants at the time. When she and Michonne were having their little standoff, Andrea acting all amazed at Michonne's attack, I was literally yelling at my TV "LOOK AROUND THE GODDAMN ROOM ANDREA!" And then, even after seeing it, she stayed on? And then when she found out that Daryl was in the attacking group, she just stands there, gape-mouthed like a damn fish? Ugh, I'm so sick of her and how stupid they've made her.

    That said, I fully agree that Michonne's seeming inability to talk is confounding.

  • Lee

    Not only that, but she has known the governor for how long? A couple of weeks? And she chooses him over someone she lived and fought with for 8 freaking months. The showdown between Andrea and Michonne was one of the shows profoundly stupid moments. All MIchonne had to do was open. her. mouth. and. speak. Though knowing Andrea, she still would have found a way to defend the psycho.

  • You won't catch me explaining anything away--Michonne is one of the stupidest characters on television (Lori's replacement?). Unchaining the growling kid BEFORE removing the hood? Andrea is another. She must be mesmerized by whiskey and dick.

    That said, the fight between Mich and the Governor was breathtaking, one of the show's best moments.

  • Mesmerized by Whiskey and Dick is my new band name. Dick will be the bass player.

  • emmelemm

    Believe me, if you've been through 9 or 12 or however many months of zombie apocalypse, you'd be mesmerized by whiskey and dick too.

  • petitesuissesse

    I'm generally mesmerized by whiskey and dick. I really really hope that I don't turn into her when the zombie apocalypse hits. My husband promises to brain me if I do.

  • John G.

    It didn't even occur to her that someone would keep a child zombie as a pet.

  • Gorgias

    I'll maintain that the reason Michonne didn't bother actually using her words for once in order to convince Andrea to leave with her was that, for all she knew, Andrea knew about Penny and the Room o' Heads. Since Andrea was too busy looking at the wounded governor and Michonne and didn't actually register the fucked-upedness of the situation until after Michonne left, Michonne had no reason to think that Andrea was anything but okay with the setup.

    And as it turns out, she was 100% correct. I'm done defending Andrea. Bitch be fucked up.

  • superasente

    Ummm...are we allowed to stay stuff like this around here now? Where are all the angry feminists who should be chewing up your genitals and spitting them into acid for referring to a woman as a "bitch."

    It's like I don't even know Pajiba anymore.

  • Me Mow

    Um, actually, most feminists I know would applaud Artemis (who I assume, from their name, probably also identifies as female) for addressing the problematic and infuriating way this show treats its female and black characters. It's a very feminist thing to do. As for your characterization of "angry feminists", well, that's just lazy writing.

  • superasente

    Yeah, except that Artemis didn't say that. Gorgias did.

    It's a dude's name.

    But hey. You misplace your angry all over this place. I'm cool with it.

  • Me Mow

    Artemis said "bitches be crazy", so you very well could have been referring to that with your "bitch" dig. And what gave you the impression I was angry? I was amused. Way to rely on stale stereotypes yet again. It's really very entertaining.

  • superasente

    What Artemis said waaay down the page in her large comment about the show (and not in her comment response to Gorgias in this particular corner of the thread) was, "I seriously, seriously am starting to think that Andrea is the living embodiment of some writer's belief that bitches be crazy." She's using the term to demonstrate the flawed thinking the writer's have towards women in general. She's not actually calling these women, "bitches." She's not reclaiming a word typically used to oppress and using it to empower women. She's saying that other people are flawed for thinking in those terms (achem -- people like Gorgais, who legitimately did call them "bitches.")

    So listen, maybe you don't have your screen organized the way I do. I have my Disqus list comments from oldest to newest. Maybe you have yours organized a different way and my comment mysteriously popped up after her intelligent rant, which made you think my comment actually was a response to hers. Maybe you didn't see that my comment is a response to Gorgais. It's got a little arrow pointing to Gorgais's name, but maybe you didn't look at that. This could all be some crazy case of miscommunication and confusion.

    And such we're all clearly having such a good time (usually people who start their comments with "Um, actually..." are about to yell at me, so you can understand my confusion) I'll wish you a good day, Me Wow. I hope to see you around.

  • Artemis

    I can buy that, but I still think a normal human being in Michonne's shoes would have then said something like "Seriously? You're okay with this?" Andrea is not somone she just met. They were together for EIGHT MONTHS. They slept side-by-side and defended each other in zombie attacks and foraged for food together and made plans for the future. If someone I had lived and breathed every second with for much of the past year was now shacked up with a psychopath who was trying to kill me, I would say something when we ran into each other in his room o' heads and dead daughters.

  • Let's not forget that Michonne was using family members (I think they were strongly hinting towards the fact that they were family members anyway) as pack mules for about 9 months after removing their jaws and arms. I'm not sure she is the most...balanced individual at this point.

  • I was wondering about that. Yes, it's bizarre, but maybe she just didn't want them wandering around eating living humans. She's really just playing both sides of "keep your friends close, but your enemies closer"!

  • Ozioma

    The comics say that that's her boyfriend and his best friend, IIRC.

  • Ozioma

    What made me facepalm the most after Oscar's swift departure (because God forbid that there are two black men with speaking lines on this show!) is that Andrea finally sees the room full of Zombie Heads Network, the straightjacketed zombie daughter...and she still puts her trust in the psycho she's been banging for two episodes.

    And I hate the fact that a lot of the drama being caused this season is exclusively because Michonne won't share with the rest of the fucking class. Imagine how differently this show would be if she'd actually shown Andrea the bullet-ridden tank or that excerpt from the Governor's diary full of crazy.

  • catagisreading

    They kill Daryl and I'm out.

  • David Sorenson

    It doesn't have to be a deal breaker for me. In the books, a beloved character dies. Brutally. Before I had read the issue, I would've called it a total quitting point. After the issue? Still in. The death was an essential part of the story, and handled so well that I can't wait to see how it all winds up being resolved. I honestly don't want to read that particular issue again, but the death was handled so well and was so powerful that I still read the comic. Kirkman did one hell of a job with it.

    If Daryl does eventually die but it's handled as well as the above, I'll stay.

  • superasente

    Agree entirely.

  • DeltaJuliet

    I know. I don't think I could handle it. And that's kind of why I get the feeling it might happen. They know Daryl is a fan favorite. And therefore I feel he has a big bullseye on his back.....

  • Bodhi

    I would straight up ugly cry. Not "beginning of UP sob my brains out" but it wouldn't be pretty

  • DeltaJuliet

    I pretty much just leave the room now for the beginning of Up. It's either all out bawling, or a HUGE tension headache from holding it in. No thanks.
    I can see the same thing happening IF Daryl gets it.
    Nope, not going to think about that right now.

  • Bodhi

    You are more brave than I am; I've only seen it the one time. I keep telling myself "Self, you are 30 years old, suck it up & watch this damn cartoon", but I just can't. I think it really traumatized me.
    I totally agree as to the other point, which we shall discuss no further

  • Wednesday

    I think the internet would explode if they killed Daryl. I almost never watch those "On the next episode" teasers, but this time, I sure did.

  • imbored

    Kudos to Melissa McBride for patiently waiting it out with her character and finally having a chance to flex a little acting muscle.
    Did this statement really just happen? All she did was say that she wasn't a lesbian. She won't get an Emmy for showing patience and waiting out her character.

  • Aislinn

    Well, season one Carol was an abused wife who couldn't say one bad word to her husband without getting beaten up.

    Season three Carol calmly leads a prison convict - someone they just met a few weeks ago and could be lying about why he was in jail in the first place - off and tells him to stay the fuck away the seventeen year-old girl in the group. I'd say that's a pretty clear sign of character growth.

  • Melissa

    After stating that they would never keep on 2 black characters at a time and then talking about the very alive Michonne in the following sentence, I give you no credit whatsoever. Your just trying to keep up with the PC Joneses. Get a grip. You know it's not true what you're saying.

  • superasente


  • selucius

    Everybody is punching out Melissa, so I'm just taking my turn...

  • GDI

    Reading comprehension. Learn it, fool!

  • I think you'll find that the review says "black male characters."

  • Aislinn

    MALE characters. Two black MALE characters.

  • Artemis

    But no, apparently “The Walking Dead” is incapable of having two black male characters at any given moment
    I bolded the relevant portion for you since you skipped right over it in your rush to miss the point.

  • TheMercurialMan

    "But no, apparently “The Walking Dead” is incapable of having two black male characters at any given moment, and so this week, Oscar was lost in the firefight in Woodbury."

    Two black MALE characters, read properly.

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