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"The Walking Dead" — "Cherokee Rose": Leave All Your Love And Your Longing Behind You, Can't Carry It With You If You Want To Survive

By TK | Posted Under TV Reviews | Comments (65)



episode-4-glenn-well.jpg

First up, apologies for the lack of a review last week. Due to the freak New England storm, I lost power for a few days and didn’t even get to see last week’s episode until this past Saturday. My very brief review? Eh. I enjoyed the scenes with Dale and Otis at the school, which were quite gripping, but the storyline involving Carl’s deteriorating health was beginning to get — to be quite frank — kind of boring. But the final minutes were a doozy, I’ll say that.

This week’s episode, “Cherokee Rose,” has the show beginning to display some signs of life and the beginnings of something that it’s been lacking this season — a sense of purpose and direction. Some of the lesser characters are finally beginning to develop greater depth, and the expanded roles of some of the newer characters show some great potential. And while it had an unfortunate shortage of actual zombie-related mayhem (a frequent issue, to be sure), the pace picked up somewhat and that bodes well for the future of “The Walking Dead.”

“Cherokee Rose” was all about secrets, though. Everyone is starting to have them, to guard them, and one can already tell that these secrets are not going to have positive results for the group. Of course, no secret is more stunning than Shane’s, and his fascinating dichotomy continues to be one of the show’s stronger points. The brutal shooting and abandonment of Otis was stunning, and yet… and yet, the darker parts of us knows why he did it. It’s not OK in any way, shape or form, and yet… Shane remains an enigma, appearing to alternate between desperate loner, loyal friend… and complete and utter sociopath. My only fear with his character is, based on the final scene of his face twisted menacingly in the mirror, that they’re going to (foolishly) allow his character to simply slip away and become engulfed by his darker nature. His complicated — and at times twisted — moral compass is fascinating to watch, as if with every attempt to pull himself closer to Lori, he loses another piece of his humanity.

At the same time, Andrew Lincoln managed to resuscitate his character somewhat. Considering he’s the show’s lead, the past couple of episodes had Rick Grimes beginning to feel drab as hell, uninspired and at times insipid. We get it, you’re tortured and you love your family. Now show me another goddamn emotion, would you? Do something. And this week, he did. His steady and unflinching dialogue with Hershel Greene (Scott Wilson), while at times drawn out and melodramatic, at least had him showing some new sides to his character. Speaking of, Wilson’s Hershel is an interesting character — while his religious shtick is laid on a bit thick, it’s also only natural that there would be a certain degree of desperate fundamentalism in this post-apocalyptic heartland. And there’s a hint of something more to the character, something darker flickering around the edges of his kindly demeanor. I’m intrigued.

The other characters are also growing, even if it’s in fits and starts. Andrea is becoming less shrill, Dale is becoming less of a bewildered goof (a development that frustrated me, given how strong his character was in season one), and T-Dog is… well, OK, T-Dog isn’t really going anywhere. I’m stunned he hasn’t been killed off yet. On the other hand, Norman Reedus’ Daryl was once again one of the highlights, particularly his straightforward stories of his rather grim upbringing — aided by his completely unapologetic, lackadaisical manner of describing it. Carol continues to be the least appealing character on the show, and the whole Sophia-is-missing storyline is boring me to tears. It’s odd that there seems such potential to utilize children in interesting ways given this bleak setting, but basically the tactics are let them get hurt, or make them vanish. Yawn. That said, the pregnancy creates all sorts of dramatic opportunities, and it’s going to be riveting to watch the Shane/Rick dynamic as the storyline evolves.

But best of all was that Glenn finally had the opportunity to become a part of the story. Steven Yeun has been a steady presence in the show, a solid performer who has been relegated to the sidelines for the most part, and at last his role has some meat to it. It was a bit of everything all at once — he is nearly trapped in a well with a zombie (which was a marvelously, hilariously disgusting scene), he develops a crush, he gets laid, he knows Lori’s secret — but Yeun shouldered the burdens nicely, and his character will hopefully develop into another bright spot amidst all the doom and gloom.

“Cherokee Rose” didn’t necessarily take great leaps into new territory, but it successfully set the stage for the next phase of the show’s evolution. The new characters, their (though potentially brief) new home base, and the existing cast’s development makes it feel like the show may have found its footing again. It still lacks some of the visceral punch that the first season had, and strange as this is to say — it still needs more zombie-related action. But despite Rick and his little disparate family appearing to have found a place to settle down for a bit, one can tell that the secrets simmering within the players will slowly burn through their fragile existence. I have to say, I’m looking forward to that. Plus, did you see the preview for next week? I literally fist-pumped. That’s what the show needs.









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Comments

I found it a little hit and miss and some scenes were overly melodramatic but it was a definite improvement over last week. Also, there was some nice foreshadowing if you're familiar with the books.

Posted by: admin at November 8, 2011 12:28 PM

I thought this was the weakest episode of the series quite frankly. The whole zombie in the well thing was batshit retarded. How did the zombie get their? How come the people that live their never noticed it? How the hell is it swimming? None of these questions were close to answered. Also lowering the guy into the well was just a ploy for drama. All they had to do was lasso the zombie and drag him out with a CAR! No need to do it by hand.

The wife being prego and omg who's the dad just seems soap operaish to me.

Also what's with this magical zombie free farm? I hope their is some secretly ghoulish reason for that.

Anyway next weeks looks better Dales brother is back and that will be fun.

Posted by: logan at November 8, 2011 12:34 PM

Ugh. Logan. Really, dude? Their?

I just can't get passed it.

Posted by: See what I did there? at November 8, 2011 12:46 PM

As i said before. I know the difference but I dont care unless I'm being graded or paid.

now what did you think of the episode?

Posted by: logan at November 8, 2011 12:48 PM

I badly want this show to be good, but it's not. I'm almost done watching it...I'm finding less reasons to watch every week. There doesn't seem to be any plan to how this show will progress. Breaking Bad, this show is not.

Posted by: Mike at November 8, 2011 12:49 PM

1. The zombie fell through the cover while ambling.
2. The people that live there didn't use that well as it was for livestock.
3. It wasn't swimming, it was standing. Shallow wells are usually replenished by near-surface aquifers with a sand point.
4. Ok, I'll agree with you here. Excepting that they were concerned with tearing the rotten fucker in half. Good call.
5. I have a suspicion as to the zombie-freenes but I'm loathe to share because it may be spoilerish.

Posted by: admin at November 8, 2011 12:49 PM

I hope the idyllic no zombie zone farm is because of something twisted like them capturing and torturing zombies in a barn off property to do some mad scientist kinda shit. You know the trope, who is the man, who is the monster, staring into the abyss type shit. It needs something. I'm nearly pissing myself with lethargy and abject boredom by now, instead of eeking out a couple drops when one of them almost gets snagged by a dead eyed walking corpse.

Posted by: UMG at November 8, 2011 12:51 PM

Mike has got an awesome Yoda/epileptic teenager type syntax going there. I like it!

Posted by: admin at November 8, 2011 12:51 PM

I have to get this off my chest: I know it's a show and needs dramatic twists and turns and I know people are desperate for contact when they're "lost" but....HOW IN HELL can you be so stupid as to allow yourself to be impregnated in that kind of world????
Later, when things have settled into a new normal, fine: the world needs to be repopulated.
But now? When you can barely look after yourself or the child you have?
I just want to slap her ten ways into next Tuesday.

Posted by: PaddyDog at November 8, 2011 12:51 PM

It was good to see more Glenn. He is easily one of the more personable characters. More Gleen and More Darryl are always good things.

As for the well... I would never have chanced it. Sure, it's possible that it wouldn't be contaminated, but there is no way of ever knowing it. Yes, fresh water is a valuable resource and it's possible that the other 4 wells could run dry at some point, so you'd want to have well 5 as an option, but I'm not sure it was worth all of that. Once Plan A failed, I would have called it a day.

I don't mind the daram. A bunch of nameless characters with no background, interactions, feelings, emotions or what not running around a zombie apacolypse is fine and all and I would enjoy that, but I find it much more meaningful when there is more to characters. I also enjoy seeing how people deal with what's going on and the interactions with one another.

Another part of the drama that I like is showing how people deal with this new reality. If Shane wasn't feeling tortured or fucked up after what he did to Otis, I think that would be a sign of lazy, callous writing. Similarly, Andrea dealing with her sister's death or Carol with her missing daughter.

That said, I do think they need to balance it out with good old zombie action. So far, I've been all right with it. All zombies all the time would get old. And if they were acting like some sort of para-military group always scavenging, always building shelters, arming themselves, etc. I think it would strain credibility. The only guy with any real survival type skills is Darryl. That said, we've already seen the difference between Rick's group who has been "on the road" for a while and the group at Hershel's farm. The moment Rick's group got there (not Rick, Shane and Lori, who were dealing with the Carl situation), they noted the need for a look out, guns, supplies, etc.

The Sophia thing doesn't bother me either. It took a pretty big back seat to Carl being shot and is now working as a decent excuse for why Hershel is letting the group stay at his place.

Posted by: Forbiddendonut at November 8, 2011 12:58 PM

Zombie-in-the-Well was a pointless distraction. It garnered a couple of good lines (Lori's line about the living dead never raided our cabinets, and T-Dog's, "Good thing we didn't do anything stupid like shoot it in the head"), but it was just manufactured drama and cliched to death.

In my eyes, it was another "setting the pieces in place" episode in the build-up to the half-season finale. Nothing substantial happened (again) beyond soap-operatic moments, not enough Daryl and nowhere near enough Zombie-action.

Posted by: malikvlc at November 8, 2011 1:02 PM

The people at AV Club seem to think that Hershal is hiding zombie family in the barn, that would be very interesting.

Michael Rooker couldn't come back soon enough. Wonder how he'll feel about Daryl being all chummy with the folks that left him to die?

Am I the only one who hopes that Rick, Lori, and Carl become zombie food? They are the most boring, Rick reminds me of John Black on Days of Our Lives with all his horribly whispered lines. Ugh, he straight up ruined what could be a good scene with Shane.

I also hope that the writers just don't make Shane all bad, that seems to be one thing that the show is getting right.

Daryl is the best thing about this show, his Cherokee Rose story was a highlight for me.

Posted by: Melody Be at November 8, 2011 1:04 PM

The zombie in the well just made me cringe from start to finish:

1. How did it get there? Ok, maybe it wandered by and fell through that cover. Fine. A little weak but I'll take it.

2. Why bother using *THAT* well, at this point? It's contaminated. Kill the zombie and move on to one of the other three.

3. Why hadn't Hershel's family noticed it sooner? They're keeping up with their livestock, that's the livestock well, no one heard it moaning down there sooner? Ok, maybe it fell in LAST NIGHT. Nope. Wait. It's all bloated and water logged. *sigh*

4. Why bother getting it out anyway, do they have some magical purity test for water that we haven't seen yet? Shoot him and use one of the three other wells.

5. The water in there wasn't even waist deep. T-Dogg and Dale probably would have drained the existing supply of water in that first use of the well. Move on to another well!

6. Why not use the horses FROM THE VERY BEGINNING?!

7. Two weeks ago Maggie rode down a zombie, cracked its skull and pragmatically grabbed Lori to rode back to the farm. She seemed to be quite the trooper to me. So why is she suddenly squeamish, this week, when T-Dogg makes sure bloatfish won't infect anyone?

The whole scene was all poorly manufactured drama/tension from the very get go. "We have to put at least ONE zombie on the show every week or people will stop watching."


Part of me cheered for Glenn in the pharmacy, but I had already been ripped too far out of the show and all I could think was "you should be eaten for letting your guard down like that."


I did absolutely love Daryl's Comanche Rose speech to Carol. He keeps getting more interesting but no one on the show is really worthy of where his character seems to be going.


I fully expect Daryl to find Sofia chained to a tree somewhere in the woods on the perimeter of the farm. Put there by Hershel's people as a means to keep the walkers away from the house itself.

Posted by: lubeg at November 8, 2011 1:04 PM

Save for the well scene and Sophia still being missing, I thought this was a decent, mid-season episode. That well bit, though, was nearly unforgivably stupid.

First, even if they got the zombie out, why would any of them drink that water? I'd need at least 50 Brita filters just to drink out of a well that had a corpse in it, but a zombie? No gorram way. Second, why did they need that water, anyway? What happened to the water truck with at least 20 jugs of fresh, clean, sparkling water? Surely Shane didn't waste all of it with his impromptu shower in the premiere. Third, why the hell would they send someone down there with no protection and no weapon, and why would anyone agree to do it? At least put on a longsleeve shirt, Glenn! Jesus.

That's just bad writing, man. A zombie attack mid-coitus in the pharmacy would have been much better and might have had real intensity. Plus, that's a stupid decision I can see Glenn making. But the well? No. Hell no. T-Dog's uselessness in that moment didn't help matters, either.

Blarg. Sorry. That scene just took me out of the episode for a while. At least one of the changes they made from the comic is proving to be a good addition: Daryl is the new Rick Grimes.

Posted by: RobP at November 8, 2011 1:05 PM

Great review, TK. Normally I would never compliment you (for reasons that should be obvious to everyone by this point), but you perfectly summarize all that I've been feeling the last couple of episodes. Rick's part has been dull. Painfully dull. I get that we're dealing with the zombie apocalypse and people aren't going to sit around playing charades all day, but it's a little too early for him to be this serious and haunted all the time. The dial is already up to 11 and we have so much more awfulness yet to see (and the role is not made any better by the actor's awful accent, which tragically sounds like a British guy doing a southern accent).

Andrea's shrewd abrasiveness is starting to wear on my last nerve and it's nice to see her start to lighten. I don't think the nihilism has been a strong turn for her character (who is always so strong and hopeful in the books). SPOILER: The whole thing just seems like a reason to introduce conflict between her and Dale so that when they end up together later it carries more weight. Y'know, like in a romantic comedy when two people who hate each other end up falling in love (sigh).

Darryl, as always is the bright spot of the show, not just in terms of character consistency, but also in just plain acting chops. Norman Reedus is killing it.

And y'know what? So is John Bernthall, who plays Shane. He is able to communicate so well what his character is feeling and thinking with just a subtle shift in movement or with the look on his face. His character arc is the highlight of the entire show for me and I'm glad he's not struggling to crawl out of a shallow grave somewhere.

For me what keeps the show really ticking is the generally strong writing. It really abides by the "show, don't tell" way of story-telling.

Posted by: superasente at November 8, 2011 1:05 PM

HER BODY HER CHOICE, PADDYDOG! Get out of Lori's uterus!

Really though it was a bad risk. But if there's one thing that people will do when faced with peril, it's bone. Also, what if it never goes back to anything approaching normalcy? You're still going to have to repopulate.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. Wild animals don't typically forgo procreation because their offspring may die, nature tends to account for that fact on its own. I think that there should be more attempts at breeding as, in all likelyhood, the survival rate is only going to be about 25%.

Posted by: admin at November 8, 2011 1:07 PM

I'm being patient because I know/hope there'll be a pay-off.

...maybe.

Posted by: OldSchool60 at November 8, 2011 1:10 PM

Admin:

I'm all for breeding when things settle down. In fact I have dibs on Daryl to father my own undeniably handsome and survival-savvy post-apocalyptic children. But right now, it's not about repopulating, it's about surviving through this risky time while the epidemic is still full blown.

Posted by: PaddyDog at November 8, 2011 1:25 PM

I just can't get passed it.

Posted by: See what I did there? at November 8, 2011 12:46 PM

"Passed it"? Can't tell if mocking or genuine typo.

Posted by: MelBivDevoe at November 8, 2011 1:26 PM

Daryl is the new Rick Grimes.

Right?! In the books Rick is certainly known for dramatically pontificating, so in that regard they've got his character down. But also in the book he was the pragmatic, dependable leader. Not the bossy Atlas they're making him out to be now.

I'd follow Darryl anywhere. Darryl is the new Rick Grimes.

Posted by: superasente at November 8, 2011 1:32 PM

I tend to believe Lori and Shane just didn't have any condoms at the time. Hell, how many thousands of teenagers get knocked up for the same reason, but without the excuse of possibly getting bitten by a zombie if they stopped to make a run to Walgreens? Neither one of them strikes me as much of a planner -- consider the "let's use all the flares at once" strategy of Shane and Otis last week.

I also think there's zombies on the farm. It makes sense given Herschel's no weapons policy, the bloated walker in the well, and his question about what happens if they find a bitten Sophia.

I could've lived without the treacly hat scene. But I did like the Cherokee Rose story (state flower of Georgia, by the way, so a nice little touch).

Posted by: Wednesday at November 8, 2011 1:36 PM

Zombies in the barn. READ THE BOOKS, I want to yell. But then I remember that Daryl isn't even in the books and he's the best madeup thing so I shouldn't be a smug bug.

Glenn was Glenn in Season One. Resourceful, funny, surprising, as much a lead as Rick. I am bothered by his fade to bit player status.

Why did Lori pee on the stick in the woods? Like she couldn't do that in the house? Manufactured drama. I guess Shane's headshaving gave the bathroom set all the glory last week and the prairie was jealous.

They need to hurry up and resolve the Sophia business and make Andrea a sniper and make Daryl more awesome and Michonne the ef out of the Whining Wandering Wombs of the Walking Dead. Will Merle be the mayor? So many questions. Too much talking and wandering.

Posted by: Stacy D at November 8, 2011 1:42 PM

Guess I'm saying cut the yappity yap and waste zombies.

Posted by: Stacy D at November 8, 2011 1:44 PM

Supersante: I am so with you, Norman Reedus and John Burnthall are the best! I was so mad that Lincoln's horrible accent and batman whispering ruined what would have been a good scene with Rick and Shane last week.

Also can we please get Shane out of Otis' clothes, god that strapping lad drowning in hill billy wear just breaks my heart.

Posted by: Melody Be at November 8, 2011 1:45 PM

I love Shane's character and Jon Bernthal and I'm glad he's still around. As for the "stay or go" stuff, once it's known that Lori is pregnant, and there's a high chance the baby is his, no way he'll go. And that will provide endless drama.

I also would have liked Glenn and the girl who's name I've forgotten to get attacked while doin' it. That would have provided some real excitement (and additional zombie fu). I did think, you go Glenn, but really, you're going to do it right there?

I really, really want to know why the farm is so zombie-free. I get that per the books and also rampant speculation on the internet, Herschel is keeping a stable of zombies. Experimenting on them, perhaps? That would fit in with the speech a few episodes ago of how he believes that this is just another plague, like the flu or AIDS, and humanity will eventually get past it.

Finally, Michael Rooker Michael Rooker Michael Rooker Michael Rooker Michael Rooker Michael Rooker Michael Rooker Michael Rooker Michael Rooker Michael Rooker !!!!!!!

Everything is better with Michael Rooker.

Amen.

Posted by: MM at November 8, 2011 1:46 PM

One request: since I'm assuming you've seen the episode if you're reading the review, spoilers about the episodes are fine. However, let's try to lay off of spoilers from the books, since it's obvious that there's no way of telling what storylines the showrunners will use. Thanks, kids.

Posted by: TK at November 8, 2011 1:50 PM

I am not sure if I am ready for everyone to be a bunch of bad-asses all of a sudden. It will be cool if Andrea becomes a sniper, but that should evolve over time.

I have very mixed feelings on Michonne. She's a very cool character, but I think one that might work on the comic's page more so than on screen. While I like her much more now in the comic, her intro and concept is a bit ridiculous. She'd seem an odd fit in the world they have created in the show.

Too much talking and wandering? You've read the comics. That's pretty much what they do. Talk. Wander. Try to find a place to live safely. Talk. Wander. Etc.

Posted by: Forbiddendonut at November 8, 2011 1:53 PM

Before everyone gets all antsy over the return of Merle, I think we should consider the fact that he is just a hallucination brought about during Daryl's struggle.

Posted by: DangadaDang at November 8, 2011 2:00 PM

DangadaDang

You have not only made perfect sense, but you have deflated my bubble of joy. Congratulations.

Posted by: MM at November 8, 2011 2:11 PM

The world they have created in the show has shifted settings from metropolitan to rural with success. The scenes in the later books, where Michonne is introduced, don't lack credibility for a graphic novel at all. If they happen, I will be thrilled because the female characters on this show are not enjoyable or credible for me right now. To a one I cannot look at them and say,"_____ is alive because______" in the way one can for other characters disctinctive talents. It's all luck or dependence, and that bothers the shit out of me. Not to mention the WHINING. These female characters are not remotely interesting, and that makes it hard to care if they live or die.

Talking about what happens in the source material is not a spoiler because precisely we know that the show's producers are not following them verbatim. Bantering about what they may and may not do is a natural consequence of any project based on another medium.

The wandering and talking works in a graphic novel. Yes. Because you can linger or skim at your own pace. And I'm not opposed to or afraid of some "negative space" in the pacing. But I'm not the first or last to point out that there is a huge difference in a well excuted episode like "Fly" from Breaking Bad, and a piss warm meandering mess like "The Killing" to make you wander away and talk about something else.

Posted by: Stacy D at November 8, 2011 2:13 PM

lubeg, I'm assuming she was turning her head aside because this zombie may have been a former neighbor/relative.

Posted by: linny at November 8, 2011 2:27 PM

Weak ass episode and the most insulting part of all was the end. Ooh, a soap-operatic, who's the daddy storyline! I really hope that wasn't in the books, because it's beyond cliche. Meanwhile, why did Lori have to go to the field to pee? Are there spies in the bathrooms? Get rid of the test, sure, but you don't have to hide to pee--everyone does it. And pregnancy tests don't instantly read. That whole scene irked the crap (pee?) out of me.

Meanwhile, who is going to drink water from that well, shot zombie or not? And why is that daughter so damned stupid (What will you tell her mother?) with her reaction to the discussion over shooting Sophia if she's infected. How naive are these people? Why aren't the zombies flocking to the lit up house? Why isn't the family afraid? No weapons? Are you crazy?

Posted by: Cindy at November 8, 2011 2:29 PM

lubeg, I'm assuming she was turning her head aside because this zombie may have been a former neighbor/relative.

Posted by: linny at November 8, 2011 2:27 PM

I agree that's a possibility, but it doesn't sit well with her behavior throughout the scene. She didn't seem very concerned up until that point, certainly not when it split in half and its guts went spilling everywhere.

Posted by: lubeg at November 8, 2011 2:36 PM

Wait till we hear about Rick's vasectomy...
Also, what 12 year old eats sardines? My money's on the return of Merle.

Posted by: dorquemada at November 8, 2011 3:12 PM

I really hope that wasn't in the books, because it's beyond cliche.

It was.

Posted by: Forbiddendonut at November 8, 2011 3:15 PM

I just can't get passed it.
Posted by: See what I did there? at November 8, 2011 12:46 PM

"Passed it"? Can't tell if mocking or genuine typo.
____

The secret lies in the username, kiddo...
__

As for me, I had a feeling I haven't felt since..LOST. Yes, that feeling that this series isn't really going anywhere. That the producers don't have a long term storyline, and that we're all being led towards another terrible, LOST ending.

The "magical" farm is a suuuuuch a cheap way out of doing some cool zombie effects. I was bored out of my mind with this one.

Posted by: Horace at November 8, 2011 3:22 PM

Actually, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense. Wild animals don't typically forgo procreation because their offspring may die, nature tends to account for that fact on its own. I think that there should be more attempts at breeding as, in all likelyhood, the survival rate is only going to be about 25%.

Did anyone else think that there may have been an instruction from Hershel to the Farmer's Daughter? I am not sure whether it was to bang Glenn or not bang Glenn (both are plausible). Or is she just such a slut that the first thing she says to him upon return is "nothing happened."

Posted by: ed newman at November 8, 2011 3:52 PM

How to watch "The Walking Dead"
1. DVR the episode
2. Fast-forward through all scenes involving two characters talking about the Meaning of Life.
3. Go to normal speed only for zombie action.
3. Use the 45 minutes you saved to do something useful.

Posted by: Spudboy at November 8, 2011 3:58 PM

Lori should have asked the chick who banged Glen to pick up the true blue. She doesn't know the complete timeline, or at least, they haven't shown anyone filling her in on who came along when...

Sheesh...yeah, ask Glenn. He's asian. So of course he did the math. In his head. And he knows Rick can't be the daddy.

Posted by: PissBoy at November 8, 2011 4:29 PM

@Spudboy:

Been doing that since the middle of the first season...works like a champ.

However it's more like 50 minutes saved now, and rising. Not good.

Posted by: Barry at November 8, 2011 4:42 PM

Stacy D...considering I haven't read the comics, but from what I've been told, the showrunners are loosely following the model of the source material, what you are going on about ARE SPOILERS. Shut the fuck up please.

Posted by: PissBoy at November 8, 2011 4:43 PM

As for me, I had a feeling I haven't felt since..LOST. Yes, that feeling that this series isn't really going anywhere. That the producers don't have a long term storyline, and that we're all being led towards another terrible, LOST ending.

While I don't think we're going to be led towards LOST ending, the over all problem with this show (and the comic) from its inception is that there is no planned "end."

Kirkman has said over and over again that he wanted to write the zombie story that doesn't end and that he has no ending planned for the comic.

Beyond either (1) killing off everyone or (2) finding some type of cure, how do you end a show like this?

Posted by: Forbiddendonut at November 8, 2011 4:47 PM

Stacy, I'm going to go ahead and make a ruling on this one. No more speculating/discussion of major plotlines/characters from the books, because the showrunners are following some elements of the books, and it's not fair to ruin the potential experiences for viewers who have not read them. So please, let's have this be the last of it. I hate comment moderation -- it's boring and annoying and gets in the way of my drinking -- but I'll do it if need be. Thank you.

Posted by: TK at November 8, 2011 4:48 PM

The only thing that annoys me more than Andrew Lincoln's constant eyebrow-knitting is the fact that his son's name is Carl. CARL! Carl isn't a name for a kid. It's an name for a fat jolly black man or your crazy, balding, sweatpants-and- wifebeater-wearing neighbor. I can't get over it!

Oh no, Carl is sick. Carl has to have surgery. What's wrong with Carl? Let Carl die. Carl Carl Carl. It's like naming a baby Norm or Morty.

Posted by: JanetSnakehole at November 8, 2011 4:51 PM

My tv must be broken because Andrea is shrill as hell on the 46 inch Panasonic.

Posted by: seth at November 8, 2011 4:56 PM

Overall, I felt this was a pretty average episode. I, as with pretty much everyone here, really liked the fleshing out of the Daryl and Glenn characters. This episode was fun to watch, even though the did/said some stuff that was stupid as hell.

As a footnote, Is it just me or are those green screen backgrounds really looking cheap? That landscape that Hershel and Rick over look, the barn in the background of the house, etc.

Also, Lori is getting on my last nerve

Posted by: Danny Smooth at November 8, 2011 5:08 PM

p.s. - as for the header picture, Kuato says "Glenn, turn on the reactor!"

Posted by: Danny Smooth at November 8, 2011 5:10 PM

Hmmm. I did not mention Herschel possibly having a secret first or only, nor did I spoil anything. I pointed out that the books are available. Interested parties can read them. If they like.

I hoped a pretty major character came along, because she is appealing in a way that some of the current female characters are not. See Dustin's article um, TODAY. Having no idea whether she will or won't be included but hoping she is, not spoiling. Prior conversations on this site specualted what characters such as Otis might look like and who might be asked to play them.

Andrea has expressed a desperate interest in becoming adept at using her gun and frustration when hers is taken away. Shane has been showing her firearms safety. I guess .....she will become really good with them? It's a reasonable guess and not a spoiler.

It's odd that I would be singled out for asking for a clarification. But I thank you for being respectful in your response.

Posted by: Stacy D at November 8, 2011 5:14 PM

So I think we all agree that the zombie in the well scene was the suck. Hopefully "zombie in the well" is not the new "jumping the shark".

Posted by: logan at November 8, 2011 5:31 PM

Stacy, you may not have been the first to mention a secret, but you were the first to explicitly talk about what may be in the barn. I had no inkling until I read your comment, thus: SPOILED. I, for one, thank TK and Pissboy for asking you not to be explicit.

I also don't understand the whole thing with the zombie in the well. I am with T-Dog, I loved his comment about shooting the walker.

Posted by: Brooke at November 8, 2011 6:31 PM

I hate this season. There was such a promising and interesting first episode. And then... Show just stuck. 3 episodes are like one big boring movie. I loved the show because I felt their struggle and fear. Every day they were running from danger. Zombies were everywhere and they tried to survive.

And now? They sit in that stupid house for 3 long episodes and do nothing but talk. Talk and talk, talk and talk. Sometimes they whine and feel sorry themselves. And for the last two episodes I rewind it almost every time when I see that there is gonna be another 5 minutes of pointless and boring talking.

They need to find that stupid Sophia and get out from that ridiculous house. It looks so unbelievable that there is zombie apocalypse and walking deads are everywhere but people in our house don’t even bother to build some defense. Any walkers can come at night, break the windows and get throw any door and eat all of them.

And let’s talk about food. What are they eating? There are so many people in the house now. And they all need to eat at least 2 times a day. But no one cares. Food is just there on the tables. Out heroes don’t need to survive anymore. They only need to talk whole episodes this season.

Posted by: Shy at November 8, 2011 6:39 PM

The people at AV Club seem to think that Hershal is hiding zombie family in the barn, that would be very interesting.

I really, really want to know why the farm is so zombie-free. I get that per the books and also rampant speculation on the internet, Herschel is keeping a stable of zombies


I also think there's zombies on the farm. It makes sense given Herschel's no weapons policy, the bloated walker in the well, and his question about what happens if they find a bitten Sophia.

I really considered my comment in the same vein. Sorry.

Posted by: Stacy D at November 8, 2011 6:46 PM

I understand what you are saying. I'm sure it is all over the internet, but I purposely avoid everything but the review on this site because of that. Pajiba is very good about not allowing spoilers. I avoid everything spoilerish, I don't read the books on purpose, and I like going into each show as a blank slate.

On the same tack, I have read every Sookie Stackhouse book. I love the show True Blood and often don't comment on the reviews because I am afraid I would spoil something inadvertently. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying don't comment. I'm saying I totally get where you're coming from. No harm, no foul. One man's spoiler is another man's known fact.

Posted by: Brooke at November 8, 2011 7:01 PM

I still don't see how Carol is worse than Andrea. Andrea mopes about not being allowed to be obliterated in a fiery hellstorm, and is pissed at Dale about it despite making the choice to escape said hellstorm. She whines about not being allowed to carry a gun despite her clear suicidal urges, is given a gun with the stated reason being to simply shut her up (I remain confident that the unstated reason was to encourage her suicide), and when confronted by a zombie she proceeds to fall on the ground screaming and flailing instead of using the gun she was so sure she deserved. Since then, she's continued to be pissed at Dale for caring about her (the unbelievable bastard) and continued to act as if she were a 13 year old emo who's mad at his parents for taking the razors he uses to cut himself.

Yes Carol has been moody. She at least has a reason. Andrea is just sad because she's alive and has maintained her shitty attitude despite the fact that nearly every single person around her clearly has things much much much worse than she does.

On a far less serious note, I can't be the only person that saw Merle in the preview and thought, "Oh shit! Merle's got the clap and he's back for his drugs!"

Posted by: Harborwolf at November 8, 2011 8:14 PM

T-Dog's uselessness in that moment didn't help matters, either.

In T-Dogg's defense (because I like him), it seemed to me in that scene that he was the only one saving our beloved Glen from becoming zombie soup. Everyone else had lost their grip, leaving only T-Dogg clinging to the rope.

Posted by: Kelly at November 8, 2011 10:29 PM

Daryl and Glenn are reasons to watch the show. Glenn brought some much needed humor, and Shane's inner conflict is very interesting. Yes the show needs to quicken the pace a tad, but I have a feeling things are going to get interesting on that supposedly safe farm.

Posted by: stryker1121 at November 8, 2011 11:10 PM

As i said before. I know the difference but I dont care unless I'm being graded or paid.

Posted by: logan at November 8, 2011 12:48 PM

That's even worse, logan. So only teachers and employers deserve your best effort? You're alienating a good portion of the English-loving readers here.

Posted by: Uriah Creep at November 8, 2011 11:25 PM

@Kelly: Good point. I just remember not believing that moment because I don't think he was even wearing gloves. But that definitely did happen.

@Harborwolf: I'm not sure if Glenn has it worse than Andrea does, but she did just lose her sister (and had to take her out as a zombie, too) like a week ago in the show's timeline. All of these people have been dealing with the same shit at a rapid pace, and the grieving period varies for everybody in every situation. So. No, Andrea could be written better but, her reasons for acting the way she is are the same and, as contextually significant, as everybody else.

I honestly don't know why I'm compelled to want to talk about this show so much.

Posted by: RobP at November 8, 2011 11:41 PM

I'm going to start catching up with this show the same way I did with True Blood season 3 by reading the reviews. I can't take a chance and fall asleep while watching. So Lori is pregnant.... How very very interesting......

Posted by: Candy at November 9, 2011 12:02 AM

I didn't watch this episode, because after not seeing a few episodes, I tried to watch the last one and it was nothing but talk, talk, talk and feelings this and emotions that and not one damn zombie for 45 damn minutes.

If I wanted to watch a glorified soap opera I'd have watched anything on CBS.

Posted by: Protoguy at November 9, 2011 1:14 AM

@ Forbiddendonut :

You have the 4 principals sit in a diner, put Journey’s Don’t Stop Believing on the Juke and fade to black...

Posted by: midas89(heavy) at November 9, 2011 4:27 PM

They have GOT to get doing something. The writing this season is really bad. Rick is constantly speaking in monologues and it is getting dull. I'm kind of hoping what I know is going to happen takes out everyone but Daryl, T-Dog, Shane, Glenn, and Maggie. Leave the rest for zombie food. Given how much I liked Dale and Andrea in the comic it's really annoying what the writers have done with them. And Lori is, yes, a total bitch. She didn't annoy me near as much in the book, but her entitled act is just irritating. Asking Shane to stay and being as transparent as possible that she is doing so because she is selfish was really the last straw for me. She didn't even thank Glenn for getting her the stupid pregnancy test.

I would The series is actually managing to make zombies boring.

And yes, bring on Merle! Every show needs more Rooker!

Posted by: TylerDFC at November 10, 2011 12:20 PM

And let’s talk about food. What are they eating? There are so many people in the house now. And they all need to eat at least 2 times a day. But no one cares. Food is just there on the tables.

Posted by: Shy at November 8, 2011 6:39 PM

Before you tear my head off, I should mention that I haven't read the books OR watched the shows, because as much as I'd love to, I'm a nancy-pansy who can't get over her kinemortophobia. But I read the recaps and the comments and I can't possibly be the only one who immediately gagged at how the "magical zombie-free farm" might also happen to be stacked with food...

Posted by: Kateshi Rinkichiku at November 11, 2011 3:01 AM

Read the comics, people. Then you'll be wondering how the fuck they managed to fuck up incredible, compelling storylines and make it into the most BORING POSSIBLE TELEVISION SHOW ABOUT THE ZOMBIE APOCALYPSE.

Posted by: Alexa at November 11, 2011 9:59 AM

"I want to slap her ten ways to Tuesday." Not sure who I'm going to say this to, but it is happening TODAY.

Posted by: karen at November 15, 2011 12:22 PM