Slim Pickens Demands Royalties: "Game of Thrones" Book Readers' Edition - "Mockingbird"

By Steven Lloyd Wilson | TV Reviews | May 20, 2014 | Comments ()


Welcome to the book readers’ edition of recapping Game of Thrones! As we’ve established previously, if you haven’t read all of the books (yes, all the way through A Dance of Dragons, it’s been just shy of three years on that count, so it’s fully in play) kindly either depart gracefully or accept that there will be spoilers in what follows.

Hello everyone! Time for another week’s book readers’ edition. Also, thanks to everyone who chimed in on the thread last Thursday where we talked a bit about the way this column has been going. What makes this site different than any other on the Internet is the community, and so when we feel that something isn’t working, we try to make it as open to the readers as possible to figure it out. So to everyone who gave their thoughts and constructive criticism thank you for that, you’re what makes this site the best place on the Internet.

Alright, so let’s hit the main plot points, stir them around a bit, and see what shakes out the bottom of our memories of the pages.

First off, just give Dinklage all the awards. He’s great. His scenes are great. I still wish that these scenes had taken place before the demand for a trial by combat because I think making his actions born of strategy rather than emotion makes for a better character and a better story.

There’s probably some meta-joke about how they’re on their third actor for the Mountain, something about how it’s symbolic of the interchangeability of violence, etc. One way to read the scene with the Mountain’s massacring of prisoners is that he’s getting a sort of practice in advance of the combat, keep his skills up and such. I prefer the second way of reading it, which is just that this is what the Mountain does every morning after breakfast. Some people scrapbook, some people take a brisk jog, the Mountain slaughters a dozen dudes.

Arya and the Hound RIDING THROUGH THE FOREST. Huh, I’d completely forgotten about Rorge and Biter. Mostly because they let Rorge keep his nose and didn’t mention his name. That’s two noses that the show has left on faces that should have lost them. Disgraceful. I mean, yes, it was exactly the right decision they made with Tyrion, but Rorge? It’s a colorful image, and essentially the only defining characteristic other than “psycho murder hobo” but that’s not exactly a unique calling in Westeros. Though this is interesting then, because I wonder then who’s going to pick up the Hound’s helmet and commit all those atrocities in his name? It’s not a big deal that it’s not Rorge, but I assume that they’re going to make it a character we’ve met before, so I’m curious which it’ll be.

And Arya and the Hound are one thing that the show does really well. In the books, the few scenes we get with Arya and the Hound are just wonderful, but they’re over very quickly. The show has made the smart move of adding these additional scenes, almost like an editing job that GRRM probably would have done had he gotten to go back and rewrite Storm of Swords. To a degree, they’re definitely filler in that they don’t advance the plot directly at all (other than the Hound finally getting his infected wound), but they’re the good sort of filler.

But seriously, Brienne’s like a laser-guided plot rocket. No one has seen the Stark girls? She rides to a random inn and the first person she asks gives them the next plot hook. I have a harder time than that figuring out where I’m supposed to go next in video games even when they put flashing exclamation points over the heads of important NPCs. Oh, you’re looking for the Stark girls? One of them was just here a bit ago, have you been looking long? Nope, this is LITERALLY the first place we looked. And then her and Pod have their discussion of where to go as they ride up to a fork in the road. The subtlety on display here is just breathtaking.

And then there’s the Wall, which has just sort of been interminable. Have they mentioned yet that there are 100,000 men coming with giants? Just in case you skipped the first half of the season, let’s make sure to tell you again. Welcome the conquering hero! Who only lost half his men in a surprise attack in the middle of the night against an equal number of drunk guys! Clearly Jon went to the Zapp Brannigan school of heroic leadership. Kit Harington aims for brooding and lands on sullen constipation like he practices lines by watching the Vincent Kartheiser episodes of Angel on repeat.

And what about the Eyrie? (which I misspelled a couple weeks ago as Aerie because I’ve been playing too much Baldur’s Gate II again). For just a second there Littlefinger was actually sympathetic and kind of even a little awesome with the whole I killed him because he killed your mother. And then he has to go and break personal space rules and start kissing and it’s all creepy again. Also, with that suave coat/dress thing Littlefinger is a smooth set of sunglasses and some thumping bass away from being indistinguishable from Neo in the Matrix sequels.

Two things here. First, that was one shitty amateur snow castle right there, which doesn’t really matter other than the way it was described so exquisitely in the book. Come on guys, you can’t take away Sansa’s mad snow castle skills. It’s literally the only thing she has going for her. Second, Robin/Robert in the books was a lot creepier because he’s genuinely ill and not quite right in the head. The show he’s really just a spoiled shit. Losing that sickly side makes him a bit more one dimensional, but he’s also minor enough I don’t think it really changes much at the end of the day.

Getting back to the mastery of the subtle though, how about Lysa’s paratrooping? In the book, that just came completely out of the blue, a splash of cold water to the face. I don’t know if it was just the way they shot it, or the fact that I knew it was coming, but that shock just felt like it was missing. Once the door was open and Sansa was being threatened, there was only one way that scene was going. “Your sister” instead of “Only Cat”? Eh, I’m neutral. The second feels more natural, because it’s the way these childhood friends would have referred to her. But we’ve got Cat being called Cat within a hundred pages or so of this scene in the book, but almost a year of television, so I can see why they changed the line for clarity.

Plus, who gets blamed now for the murder? Just, oh, oops, she tripped? The thing is that in the book, laying that murder on the singer just seemed like such a tenuous claim, especially since the Lords of the Vale didn’t really want Littlefinger in charge anyway. Now if the show decided to make it so that Peter claims that Robin did it, perhaps in the midst of throwing a tantrum … that’s a far more believable story, and one they could get a lot of mileage out of.

Finally, it’s only in writing this that I connected the dots on the semantics of Lysa killing her husband with the Tears of Lys. I know I’m probably the last person watching this show or reading these books to register that connection, but I had to share it anyway because it made me unaccountably excited. Remember in the first season/book when Varys tells Eddard that Jon Arryn was killed with the Tears of Lys? And we later find that his wife did it to keep Robin/Robert from being taken away from her? Whatever poison was actually used, Varys was literally telling Eddard the truth, since it was the tears of Lys(a) that killed him. Neat.

Steven Lloyd Wilson is a hopeless romantic and the last scion of Norse warriors and the forbidden elder gods. His novel, ramblings, and assorted fictions coalesce at www.burningviolin.com. You can email him here and order his novel here.

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Comments Are Welcome, Jerks Will Be Banned

  • Protoguy

    Just to address the title of this piece; If Slim Pickens wants royalties, Lysa would have to have ridden Tyrion to the Vale floor cuz he's DA BOMB!

  • pfeiffer87

    One of my niggling issues with the show (one of many) is that WINTER IS COMING and we only see snow on the wall. By this time the cold is meant to be moving south right?

    Also like someone else on the thread I'm wandering when Jorah's betrayal is gonna come to light - should be quite soon as we have to have the meeting of Jorah and Tyrion about halfway ish between Meereen and Westeros.

    And lady Stoneheart will be AWESOME. I hope they don't botch that reveal like they did Lysa's moon door exit.

  • It's snowing in the Vale. But I can't remember if that was a Big Deal or not.I just remember Jaime being shocked when it snows in the river lands.

  • VohaulsRevenge

    Glad to see that you came back to GoT blogging, instead of giving us all the finger and stomping off. :)

    I loved "Mockingbird", though I agree that Lysa's death in the show had only a fraction of the shock factor it did in the novel (and given how boring I found AFFC, that's saying something).

  • ferryman

    I am praying that brevity and simplification rule the future of the show. In the same way that the show did without all the Vale's banner men politics and all the singer BS, it could do the same next week. I am supporting the Red Viper actually killing the mountain without all the drama of Clegane being turned into a zombie and all the Tyrion wondering where whores go and mooning over the greyscale water and riding pigs and all that. Please, please, let the prince have his vengeance free and clear and avoid all that nonsense with Tyrion. Think of the boredom we can avoid. Let the Prince kill Tywin also, or at least take the blame when Tyrion commits the act, but let the mountain die and let Tyrion stay in king's landing.

    I beg you.

  • foolsage

    Tyrion MUST lose the trial by combat. Otherwise, why would he do what he does in what I assume will be the season finale? That's too big a plot point to mess with. While I love Oberyn and utterly adore Pedro Pascal's take thereupon, I can't support this.

  • vic


    Because then we'd have Benioff and Weiss write new plotlines and they really haven't proven themselves there. They still have to for the next few seasons, and I'm dreading that enough now. No, Oberyn will die, Gregor will be badly poisoned and revived, Tyrion will chase after Tysha (which I think is a beautiful, poetic plotline), the Greyscale water scene probably won't happen - at least not the same way - and there aren't any pigs for Tyrion to ride, at least not at the moment, but there's still the Second Sons. Even if AFfC and ADwD are horribly slow and boring much of the time, I still trust GRRM to have an interesting reason and payoff for Tyrion to be in Essos. The Mountain is also just a non-White Walker bogeyman for the series, and he does a good job.

  • ferryman

    Fine. "Be your way" then, but don't blame me when Dinklage quits the cast over the annoying and embarrassing "Oh, where do whores go?" internet montage. I personally dread next season, and have enough faith in Benioff and Weiss and their editing abilities to hope that they use them to cut the next two books (naps with words....) into shreds. It's obvious that GRRM lost control and his book editor was cash cowed into submission.

  • vic

    Why does hoping it doesn't deviate that much from the books constitute "my way"? Well, whatever. At any rate, in the books, Tyrion mostly says that line in his thoughts. I really don't think he'll say it as often on the show. B&W aren't exactly known for copying scenes from the book verbatim. Much as I'm concerned about their originality, they know how to cut a sequence short. Like you said, they'll very likely condense things.

  • ferryman

    "Be your way"; just an opportunity to throw in the new Burger King Corporate Slogan. I'm surprised they didn't throw 'hash tag' in there somewhere. Apologies for it being lost in the translation.

    Where do hors d'oeuvres go?

  • Ozioma

    Which way do the whores go, George?

  • manting

    Tyrion gets the Second Sons to change sides again and they attack the slaver armies the same time as Barristan is leading an attack from the city. Also Victarion is attacking from the sea at around the same time too and I think Dany will show up on Drogon with a khalasar to mop up.

  • SottoVoce

    Bravo, SLW! I haven't read the books, but enjoy reading the insights and opinions of those who do when they are thoughtfully and well expressed, as they are by you and the other readers who post here.

  • pthalio

    "Kit Harington aims for brooding and lands on sullen constipation like he practices lines by watching the Vincent Kartheiser episodes of Angel on repeat." --- This made my life!

  • vic

    Damn, couldn't read this thread at all today, and there's already almost 300 comments. Fortunately, none of them are being shitty towards SLW. Yay! Well done, people. Thanks for continuing, Steven. I appreciate it.

    I don't really have much to add now. I'm annoyed that Rorge and Biter were killed off in this episode, and it would have been cool to see them menacing Brienne further down the road (some would wonder how viewers would know, but Gendry would be on hand to identify them), and having them killed off so quickly, even comically, really nerfs how terrifying they were in the books. But ultimately, it's not that big a deal. Brienne will just fight some cruel Bannermen later on. (Incidentally, I hope GRRM doesn't kill Pod in the books. The show will for sure let him live, but...)

    Again, bemused by the Melisandre/Selyse scene. Nice to have Selyse do more, but now we're also going into territory beyond the books, as we now know Shireen has a higher purpose at the Wall. I'll echo Maddy and the gang here: DO NOT BURN HER.

    Otherwise, this episode is dragging Meereen along. Dany should have learned Jorah was a spy by now. They are bungling this thread and it annoys me. Likewise, the Wall is painfully underwhelming.

    Agh, but now to wait a fortnight for a very depressing fight...

  • Pretty much agree with all your points except for Tyrion. In the books, I always felt that Tyrion was just a little too detached, too quickly dismissive of Cersei's hatred.The show has made him much more human, and I think it's great to see his vulnerability and hurt on display like this. I don't know. I just liked it.

    There was one bit of dialogue that was particularly intriguing to me-- Melisandre telling Selyse how important it is that Shereen comes with them to the Wall. Why is Shereen so important? Remember that in the books Melisandre tells Jon that Shereen 'troubles' her and there are some mysterious shady words around her. The fact that the show runners are making such a big deal out of it is DUM DUM DUUUUUUUUM. I just can't figure it out. Is greyscale gonna take over Westeros? Between her and Jon Connington, something's definitely up. I really hope they introduce Patchface, who definitely disturbs Melisandre in the books. Dammit, GRRM, finish writing that shit.

  • Maddy

    I actually liked the decision to make Tyrion less calculating and more human and desperate in that moment too. I think it's pretty telling that he was totally cool with Bronn having a sense of self preservation but not Shae. The fanboys are going to be so gross about it when she dies and it's going to annoy me.

  • manting

    The show hates Jesters. No Butterbumps, no Patchface, all we get is 1 or 2 minutes of Ser Dontos as a fool. Also remember that both of the aforementioned fools speak in riddles that are easily decipherable as prophecy.

  • Maddy

    Yeah this show doesn't do prophecy apparently. Which doesn't actually bother me that much (except for the House of the Undying massive copout)

  • mzbitca

    I have a theory that all the prophecy is going to be shoved into Bran's story line to give him something to do as slowly begins to start sporting wood.

  • Maddy

    JORAH'S POOR FACE. When he ran into Daario. I can't. Show Jorah is so hot. Dany has bad taste in dudes (admittedly that is true to the books though)

  • competitivenonfiction

    Really? Jorah is just so not hot to me. Book or show. I felt sorry for him, but more in the way you feel sorry for someone who deludes themselves into thinking that their fantasy is going to be a reality even though all signs point are pointing to no. Personally, I preferred the way GRRM wrote him; this sullen older dude hanging around an exiled teenage queen thinking that he was in love with her.

  • Maddy

    I think this is my feelings about Iain Glenn coming through and influencing my opinion. HIS VOICE *drools*

    Jorah really annoyed me in the books as this typical entitled dudebro. Show Jorah isn't nearly as forward or douchey. I don't blame Dany for her decisions - she can't help who she is sexually attracted to. I wish we got more backstory on Jorah in the show - I don't think viewers even realise he is Jeor's son.

  • Debra Kessing

    I KNOW it's Iain Glenn influencing my feelings on the character :D I agree, I couldn't stand Jorah in the books, and to really show my shallowness - some of that was his physical description -- balding but hairy all over his body like a bear *shudder*. His entitlement issues just finished him for me. Iain Glenn is actually the opposite of Book Jorah - hot as hell, yep That Voice and no irritating personality traits. He is like the perfect man, and it is only because Dany is so young that I forgive her terrible taste haha

  • Maddy

    Apparently he did the audiobook for the new GRRM novella AND I NEED THIS IN MY LIFE. It's the only thing that will help me remember all those Targaryen names.

  • stryker1121

    Speaking of plot rockets, the Lysa-meets-the-moon-door scenes came super duper quick. Loved the slow tension GRRM builds in the book, but here it's just wham-bam see you crazy lady. Understand the need for brevity, and we did get 3 great scenes with Tyrion, but Sansa got short shrift, even with the scene(s) being effective enough.

    Always fun to have scenes with Gillen just to try an ID his accent. Why didn't the showrunners just let him speak in his regular accent? Now he's like this growly, whispering Westerosi Batman. It's weird.

    Also laughed quite hard when the shot of Daario's ass was quickly replaced by Carice Van Houten languishing nude in the bath. I don't get caught up in the female/male gaze talk this show engenders, but that was some funny shit.

  • Genevieve Burgess

    "Here's your silly man-butt, pervs. Now lets get back to some nice, wholesome boob!"

  • Maddy

    'We're totally bros we dont want too look at that gross man butt I mean we're not GAY here have some boobs' I really think these showrunners don't get that they have a female audience sometimes

  • foolsage

    You're right about the silly juxtaposition and the obvious and overwhelming preference for the male gaze. But... the boobs in question were (I think undeniably) quite wholesome, so I can't complain in good faith.

  • Maddy

    That was one of the best most masterful chapters in the whole series for me and they whiffed it. It wasn't BAD but it wasn't as amazing as it should have been.

    I totally called we were getting female nudity straight after that scene and then it happened. That scene was RIDICULOUS.

  • stryker1121

    I'm to the point where I'm used to the show rushing through certain plot points. You'd need half an ep to make the Sansa scenes as good as they are in the book. Characters like Tyrion are going to get the spotlight on the show, and some good stuff will have to get excised...for me it keeps a good show from being great, but that's b/c i'm a book reading pedant.

    EDIT- The Mel nudity at least served a narrative purpose, and Van Houten is a gorgeous woman so I was not complaining.

  • Maddy

    I think she's gorgeous and does a great job. It's just so hilarious to me that they probably think this means equal representation of nudity. NOPE.

  • Maddy

    I know I said this on the other thread. But that kiss was 300 times too long. I needed Sansa to get angry at him like she does in the books. DAMMIT SHOW. And I really didn't like that she slapped Robin.

  • manting

    I thought it was weird that the episode had Jon calling for freezing closed the gate which was something he was against in the books.

  • John W

    Good recap. I was scratching my head during the entire Rorge/Biter scene. So I guess Brienne will not meet them down the road. And yes who do they blame for Lysa's death?

    As much of a book purist that I am I was still happy to see Hot Pie.

  • mzbitca

    I am glad that Hot Pie is there and he's happy. I just need someone to not have a completely soul crushing and miserable life for once.

  • competitivenonfiction

    Apparently if you want a peaceful life in Westeros, you're gonna want to be a baker.

  • Maddy

    It's not a big deal but why would you change 'only Cat' (and so much of the dialogue in that whole sequence). DAMMIT. If the viewers can't put together who Cat is maybe they shouldn't have completely undermined her character in the show. Forever bitter.

  • Maddy

    I'm not a book purist, but in my opinion it's no coincidence that the Oberyn/ Tyrion scene was really close to the book and the best scene in the episode. I'm not sure the ages work out for that story - Peter Dinklage looks older than Pedro but I haven't looked it up - but I don't care. It was awesome. DINKLAGE'S FACE.

  • Maddy

    You can't criticise Kit Harington and not mention Emilia Clarke's incredible lack of acting skills. I spend all of her scenes waiting for her to blink or being distracted by her eyebrows. Iain Glenn is the best actor in that storyline and I'm going to be sad when he gets banished ... although him and Peter Dinklage should be good.

  • Well, show or book, Dany's storyline has always mostly bored me after book one except for the three or four times a BIG event has happened. I mean don't get me wrong, they're not Bran boring.

  • Maddy

    Nothing is Bran boring. I'm not the biggest fan of Dany's storyline either.

  • sherryb23

    Still interested, since they changed things up, how it's going to be revealed to Dany that Jorah was originally acting as a spy. Would guess it's got to happen reasonably soon?

  • Maddy

    I think last week they mentioned something in the small council scene about Jorah. I imagine they're going to send a letter and Jorah gets caught? Not sure it was supposed to happen when Dany took Meereen (not that I'm complaining about having him stick around longer, and hey he actually got lines this episode)

  • sherryb23

    VERY fuzzy memory, so I'm probably off on something, but it happened just before they were taking [fill in name of city here] and she ordered Jorah and Selmy (because he didn't reveal who he was until he told her who Jorah was) as punishment to get inside the city via the sewers. Then she turned him away.

    ...okay, how'd I do?

  • Genevieve Burgess

    Correct! And then Jorah was sent away because even after being forced to swim a river of shit he was still way too familiar and forward with Dany.

  • sherryb23

    Yay! I can't remember why I walked into a room but I can remember details of something I read a number of years ago. It's all about priorities...

  • Maddy

    Book Jorah is way more douchey and gross than show Jorah (although it helps that Dany in the show isn't 13)

  • Genevieve Burgess

    I know. Show Jorah hasn't tried to feel her up even once!

    "Friendzone Jorah" is still my favorite thing to come out of the show. Mostly because it IS totally who he is in the books, and even though Iain Glenn is being his courtly best about Jorah's affections on the show, it's still hilarious to watch him get so consistently beaten back since I think of him as sort of a jealous creeper.

  • Maybe the story can come full circle and Dany can get the Dothraki horde at her back by putting Jorah in a wig and selling him as wife to the latest horselord.

  • manting

    she is about to at the end of ADwD. She will gain control of the horde she meets through a liberal application of Drogon and then ride in to mop up the remnants of the slaver armies.

  • Maddy

    It also helps that show Jorah is way more attractive than he is supposed to be. What can I saw I'm shallow. And why can't we have the Dany/ Jorah kiss that grossed me out in the books but I would be totally fine with in the show.

    Book Jorah was such a typical 'nice guy' - like hey I'm being such a nice guy serving you so why are you being so bitchy and not being sexually attracted to me?? I think Dany's going to look way worse than she did in the books for banishing him and it's going to annoy me.

  • Jenn TheYellowDart

    I just keep waiting for Jorah to show up in a fedora complaining about his friend zoned status.

  • Yeah, as I recall, the infiltration through the sewers of Meereen was their punishment (not Greyworm's assignment) because no one was expected to survive a reverse Shawshank.

  • Maddy

    Yep I don't have the greatest memory on Dany chapters but I'm pretty sure that was it. I liked that they made it Grey Worm in the show though - slightly helps with the awkward White Saviour aspect of her storyline.

  • mzbitca

    Also, the most interesting parts of Danys story have nothing to do with her. I really wanted to see more of the interworking of these slave cities as I felt without any other POV in that land for the first few books that depth was really lacking. Instead it's just more of her declarative sentences and moral absolutes. Although I did appreciate her playing both Jorah and Daario off of each other. But seriously, Dany is like a Toddler that just learnd the word no. At first it's cute and you're proud for them to become a person and exert independence and then you realize that's all they're going to say for the next 6 months and still get mad at you for not knowing what they really meant.

  • Maddy

    I would appreciate it if they took the opportunity to flesh out other characters other than Dany. I NEED MORE GREY WORM. The books missed an opportunity to actually show the perspective of people in Essos and the show has a chance to rectify that.

  • Maddy

    "Welcome the conquering hero! Who only lost half his men in a surprise attack in the middle of the night against an equal number of drunk guys!" THANK YOU. This is KILLING ME. Seriously. It would have been nice if Alliser pointed that out to make him less cartoony villain.

    And what has Mance been doing this whole time? Taking a spa break? And I really need to see Ygritte before they kill her off in episode 9.

    Also that snowcastle looked pretty awesome to me? Maybe I have low standards for snowcastles?

  • Am I naive for hoping the show keeps Ellaria around in a more prominent role after Oberyn dies? I love the casting of Indira Varma, but she has been WASTED this entire season.

    When the Dorne plot picks up, I hope she is directly involved.

  • MissAmynae

    I was thinking she could be a substitute for Taena Merryweather- as Cersei's bedmate, working behind the scenes to bring her down.

    Indira cannot be wasted!

  • vic

    It would be so obvious, though. I liked that Taena was uncertain because she seemed to be as warped as Cersei was. The show might just do this, but why would Cersei trust her? Cersei would almost always suspect Ellaria of hating her for Oberyn's death, and she'd be friggin' right. What they could do is make one of the Sandsnakes disguised as her confidante, but that would still require another actress.

  • foolsage

    I am 100% behind this idea.

  • as am I.

  • foolsage

    Indira Varma is wonderful. More of her everywhere please.

  • Maddy

    TOTALLY AGREE. I like Pedro Pascal fine, but she does a great job. I hope they give her more to do in Dorne.

  • Fine? FINE????

    *flails* :)

  • manting

    the show has stressed his libido and not enough on his general baddassiness. He killed a dude in a duel at like 14 after he sexed up his mistress. He fought as a sellsword and formed his own sellsword company. He studied at the Citadel (no, not the Pat Conroy one or the fake one in House of Cards) and forged multiple links on his maesters chain. He was a pretty sick jouster too and he studied the art of the poisoner over in the free cities. They could have mentioned a few of these things in the show. Instead its all "I love whores including dude whores," I find the characterization of the Red Viper very one dimensional.

  • Maddy

    Oberyn doesn't just hang out banging whores in brothels. He strikes me as the kind of guy that doesn't have to pay for it. I'm glad they didn't erase his bisexuality but I could have done with more characterisation of him and his relationship with his sister. Which was why that backstory this episode was so awesome.

  • manting

    I totally cool with his bisexuality but there is so much more to the character than his carnality. They seem to have left everything else out but his raw sexuality and desire for revenge. They made him into a rated R version of Indigo Montoya.

  • foolsage

    Why do so many people add a 'd' to Inigo's name? He's not a colour. :D

  • manting

    its the way Mandy pronounces it - Listen - I hear a D in there.

  • foolsage

    There's no 'd' there. He says "Ee-nee-go".

    Here's an extended clip where he says it repeatedly:


  • manting

    I still hear a "d" in there. Whats funny is I have Goldmans book and I KNOW its Inigo but I saw the movie first and I still hear a "d" in there. Love the fact Chirstopher Guest is Count Rugen by the way, that Motherfucker has RANGE.

  • foolsage

    Fair enough. And yeah, that movie had an amazing cast all around.

  • Maddy

    Maybe this is unfair, but I felt like they totally used Oberyn as an excuse for more brothel scenes. And apparently Oberyn is such a sex god that he doesn't even need to take his pants off. And even when they were trying to be 'daring' we still got way more naked ladies than dudes.

  • competitivenonfiction

    "rated R version of Indigo Montoya" just made me snarf. Very apt.

  • Maddy

    I think he SLAYED that scene with Peter Dinklage this episode. That's who Oberyn is to me. I think the show tries a bit too hard to paint him as a badass. I like him though! I will be sad when he dies :(

  • I say involve her with the other, older Sand Snakes/Dornish women. Sarella/Alleras has her game, Arianne has her plots... involve her in at least one of them.

  • Maddy

    I was so happy when they mentioned Oberyn's 8 daughters. GIVE ME THE SANDSNAKES.

  • If I could get an entire series devoted to the Sand Snakes, I would. They always interest me and I would LOVE for them to feature in the stories more prominently.

    Especially Sarella. I want to know what she is doing and why.

  • Maddy



    I love Dorne. It always seemed the most interesting of the Westerosi kingdoms. The equal primogeniture, the Greenblood orphans, the only kingdom to not fall to Aegon.... MOAR.

  • Maddy

    The one place women aren't treated like crap? THANK GOD FOR DORNE. Seriously.

  • sherryb23

    Are you kidding? They'll need to milk as much filler from that to try and give Martin more time to produce the next book. And I'll take as much Dorne filler as we can get. I cannot WAIT to see who they cast as the different Sand Snakes...

  • Maddy

    I feel like they're not doing that though - they are going to rush everything and get to the end of ADWD by the end of next season

  • sherryb23

    Well, they've definitely padded it--some good, some meh--but they are rushing through some stuff that would be better if protracted, agreed.

  • Maddy

    They did that last season too but yeah - the things they're doing with the timelines on this show confuse me. It's not all bad and I understand why most of the time though.

  • foolsage

    OK, I'm conflicted on Arya killing Rorge.

    On the one hand, it was pretty damned satisfying, and I loved the Hound's "you're learning" line afterwards. Arya's getting better with her iaijitsu, but that fast draw still needs some work. Still, the kill itself was fast and graceful.

    On the other hand, Brienne was supposed to kill Rorge. Brienne's also a great character, and she doesn't have a lot of chances in the books to demonstrate what a badass she is.

  • Fabius_Maximus

    Well, Arya has not sheath or baldric for her sword. The way she's carrying it hinders her.

  • JJ

    Yeah, I'm very curious as how they're going to switch things up. Because there is no Hound helmet, they swapped out Brienne of the Rorge and Biter fight, turning the cheek bite into the (eventually) septic neck bite instead. I figure they'll have to condense or exclude Maidenpool and the Quiet Isle and have she and Pod confront the Brotherhood before or in the last episode of the season?

  • manting

    there is a hound helmet, he has worn it several times on the show, I think the last time was at the Twins.

  • JJ

    I completely forgot! My mistake. It's been so long since he has worn it, I wonder if it will come back after all.

  • DarthCorleone

    It's a huge mistake to rush Brienne running into Lady Stoneheart. If that happens this season, it'll be big trouble down the line for book purists.

  • HelloLongBeach


  • JJ

    But why would it be a huge mistake from a show perspective?

  • DarthCorleone

    Assuming the show is going to follow the books at all, once you put Brienne in the hands of Lady Stoneheart you have exactly one scene left from the books for her from A Dance With Dragons, and that's with Jaime at Riverrun. Given that most of the plotlines this season fall at the end of A Storm Of Swords, you run the risk of either completely forgetting about the character or making up stuff next season that happens after the end of A Dance With Dragons. From a television cliffhanger standpoint, you can't very well just leave that without resolution, and when you have two big fat tomes to work with, why jump that far ahead? I realize Brienne walks a long way without achieving much in A Feast For Crows, but It makes more sense to me to use that as inspiration and/or pad Brienne's story prior to running into Lady Stoneheart and just let Lady Stoneheart's initial reveal be one of hanging some random Frey like it was in the book.

  • JJ

    That's a great point. It certainly would leave a necessary door open for Season 5 to leave Brienne away from Lady Stoneheart while still allowing for a season finale bombshell.

  • We also need Brienne to meet the septon, go to the Quiet Isle, hear about the death of the Hound, etc. There's still a lot that HAS to happen, no? That's an awful lot to cut out just to have a big shock at the end.

    My guess it that they WILL introduce Lady Stoneheart, BUT the same way it was introduced in the books--not with Brienne at all but with some random assholish Frey getting killed.

  • J4Sho

    That's what I think will happen. I don't think Brienne will actually MEET Lady Stoneheart this season, but I do think they will introduce her. The how is the only question I have had and your scenario seems like a good one.

  • jM

    I'm getting the feeling they may significantly cut down Brienne's wanderings. Maybe to get her to Lady Stoneheart faster?

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