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A Man Must Have a Code


"Lost: Dead Is Dead" (S5/E12) Recap / Daniel Carlson

TV Reviews | April 13, 2009 | Comments (74)


“Dead Is Dead” was a solid episode of “Lost” as well as a pretty entertaining origin story of sorts detailing parts of Ben’s past as yet unseen, including his initial contact with Alex and what exactly he was up to in L.A. between leaving Jack at the Lighthouse station and reappearing at the airport to board Ajira 316. Plus it turns out the smoke monster gets summoned by flushing an underground toilet before squirting itself out of an ancient rune-covered Play-Doh machine. So, bonus.

Written by Brian K. Vaughan and Elizabeth Sarnoff and directed by Stephen Williams, the episode opens with a Hostile galloping into camp on horseback — these guys have everything — before dismounting and furiously storming up to Richard Alpert. The man, who speaks in a British accent, is incredulous that Richard actually brought “one of theme” to the Temple, but Richard said it was a just a dying boy, and that Jacob wanted it done. “The island chooses who the island chooses,” Richard says. “You know that.” The British guy, not very pleased with the tautology, shrugs it off and asks to see the boy. Moments later, he walks into a tent where Baby Ben is shirtless and bandaged, still healing from the gunshot wound but looking a little better than he did before. The boy doesn’t remember where he is or how he got there, but when he asks about his dad, the Brit says he can return to his father soon enough. Ben protests and tries to move, succumbing to a coughing fit as he says he doesn’t want to go back to the DHARMA Initiative. But the older man replies, “Just because you’re living with them doesn’t mean you can’t be one of us.” He says that Ben should be dead but the island saved his life, then introduces himself in the inevitable but still entertaining reveal: He’s Charles Widmore. This is the beginning of the lifelong rivalry.

Back in 2008, Ben regains consciousness in the cot on Hydra Island to see John Locke, alive and well, sitting next to his bed. Ben registers what’s happened and begins to understandably lose his shit a little, but there’s something approaching actual emotion in his voice when he says, “I knew that this would happen.” But Locke is beyond suffering Ben’s statements any more, and he answers each one with an incisive question — Why are you surprised to see me? Why were you escaping to the main island? — that emphasize just how much the power has shifted from Ben to Locke. After all, if Locke can’t even be stopped by death, why would he sweat Ben? Ben eventually admits to Locke that he was heading to the main island because he “broke the rules” and was “going back to be judged.” Locke looks somehow pleased, interested, and completely disbelieving when he hears this, and he asks Ben just who will be doing this judging. Ben drops the other shoe: “Well, John, we don’t even have a word for it, but I believe you call it ‘the monster.’”

Out on the beach, Ilana and Bram (the beefy dude) are overseeing some of the other survivors as they attach bamboo handles to a giant metal crate. Ben ambles up and asks what’s in the box, but Ilana says it’s “just some stuff we need to get moved.” Ben asks if he can help, but she says they’ve got it under control, so he creepily bids them all a good afternoon before moving on. He eventually makes his way to Caesar, who strikes up a conversation about Locke, who’s currently standing at the shoreline and staring out across the water like an unstable person. Caesar says that Locke claims Ben killed him, and Ben decides to use this moment to forget everything he ever learned about conning anyone and instead “lie” in that broad TV way that’s meant to remind the viewer that the liar is being extra sneaky and manipulative even though his tone and body language wouldn’t even fool Roland Pryzbylewski. Ben says he doesn’t really remember Locke from the plane, which is something Caesar and the rest already figured out. Ben suggests that maybe Locke was already on the island before the crash, meaning they could be “dealing with a man who’s dangerously deranged.” Caesar shows Ben the gun he took from the Hydra office and tells him not to worry.

Flashback: It’s the late 1980s, as will soon be revealed by character interactions but is immediately identifiable by Ben’s amazing hair, which looks like something out of Rad. Ben and a young boy are hiding in the bushes and spying on a small camp on the beach, and the boy loudly volunteers, “I can do it if you want me to.” Ben addresses the boy as Ethan — this kid was everywhere — telling him to shut up and stay put. Ben draws a pistol and approaches the hut, which turns out to be the current home of the young Danielle Rousseau and her infant, Alex, both asleep. Ben is about to shoot Rousseau when he’s startled by the baby’s cry, and he knocks over the music box and inadvertently wakes Rousseau. She reaches for her rifle, but Ben stops her by raising his own weapon, telling her to freeze. “You’re the one who infected us, aren’t you?” Rousseau says, but she slips into frantic French as Ben picks up the baby and steps toward the door. Ben fires a shot into the sand and retrains his gun on Rousseau, telling her to be thankful she and the baby are still alive. Ben says that if Rousseau pursues him or ever comes looking for him, he’ll kill her. “And if you want your child to live, every time you hear whispers, you run the other way.” With that, he takes off.

Back in 2008, Ben is rifling through the desk drawers in the main office, eventually finding what he’s looking for: A framed photo of himself with Alex in happier days, before he sacrificed her to Keamy and the commandos out of fear for his own life. Locke enters like a stealthy ninja and asks what Ben’s looking at, but he says it’s just “something sentimental” before folding the photo and putting it in his pocket. Locke strolls over and comments on Ben’s old work space, saying it seems “a little corporate” to lead his people from behind a desk. Locke even sits down and props his feet up, all but rubbing Ben’s nose in the fact that Locke is now the one in control. He says he wants to talk about “the elephant in the room,” and Ben delivers a killer deadpan when he replies, “I assume you’re referring to the fact that I killed you.” Ben says that Locke’s death was the only way to unite those who left and get them back to the island, and that Locke himself should remember that. When Locke reasonably asks why Ben didn’t just let him commit suicide, Ben says coldly, “You had critical information that would’ve died with you. And once you’d given it to me, well, I just didn’t have time to talk you back into hanging yourself. So I took a shortcut.” Admissions like this one are precisely why Ben is so masterful at manipulating those around him: Every now and then, he actually tells the truth, making it harder and harder to figure out when he’s lying, or why. Ben says he was acting in the best interests of the island, and that it worked because everyone is back now, even though he can’t place them all. Locke twists the knife and says he just wanted an apology, but then stands and says he’s decided to help Ben on his journey to judgment. Ben protests, saying it’s not something Locke will want to see, but Locke says that if Ben really has been serving the island’s greater good, then “the monster will understand.”

A few minutes later, Locke and Ben are removing the covering on one of the outriggers and preparing to leave when Caesar and a couple others come up and want to know what’s happening. Locke says they’re just taking a boat and heading to the main island, but they’re happy to leave the other one if Caesar wants to follow them. Caesar asks if Ben is going with Locke, and Ben replies that “he didn’t really give me a choice,” playing Caesar before the man knows it. Caesar says he’s “calling the shots” and that he won’t let them take a boat before Locke explains how he knows so much about the island. Caesar and Locke begin to argue as Caesar reaches for his gun, but right as he sees his bag is empty, Ben raises the weapon and blasts Caesar in the chest. Ben turns the weapon on the nonspeaking day-players and says he and Locke will be leaving, and they scatter. Ben tosses the gun to Locke and says, “Consider that my apology.”

Ben and Locke travel over to the main island, and as they dock, Locke points out the other outrigger already secured there, which Ben says was the one Sun and Frank came in after Sun attacked Ben. Locke asks if she’s also the one that hurt the arm Ben has been favoring, but Ben responds with appropriate portent, “No. Someone else hurt my arm.” Locke keeps needling Ben about his way of dealing with people, and when Ben protests that he only shot Caesar to keep Locke from harm, Locke just grins and says, “No point in me dying twice, right?” Man, Locke is totally on in this episode. All he needed to do to get funny was be murdered! Ben says they have to go to his old house because it’s the only place he can summon the monster, after which he’ll be judged, but Locke calls shenanigans on his motivation and says Ben isn’t worried about breaking the island’s rules but rather is worried about being punished for what he allowed to happen to Alex.

Flachback: It’s still 1989, and Ben tosses a lock of his wig realistic hair aside as he makes his way back to the Hostile camp, with Alex in his arms and Ethan in tow. Richard, Widmore, and a few other Others are eating around a fire when Ben walks up, and Widmore is pissed that Ben not only blew his mission to kill Rousseau but brought back a baby. Ben defends his choice, saying Rousseau doesn’t pose a threat because she’s insane — which is totally self-contradictory, and false to boot, but oh well — and that he couldn’t very well kill an infant. Widmore, looking pretty hair-pluggy himself, stands and begins to lecture Ben about how everything he’s done has been to protect the island, but Ben counters and asks if killing the baby something that Jacob wants or just an order from Widmore. Ben holds out the infant and dares Widmore to kill her, and Widmore looks like he just might do it after all, but he just smirks and walks away. Richard gives Ben a look that withholds judgment but says things might work out badly in the long run, which of course they do.

Back in 2008, the Barracks are still deserted, and the sign on the Processing Center is still somehow dangling ominously. The place is still a wreck, having fallen into disrepair since the events of fall 2004, after which the Others evacuated and headed to the Temple ahead of the invasion by Widmore’s commandos. Locke asks whose idea it was to move into the Barracks after the Purge, adding that it “just doesn’t seem like something the island would want.” Ben says Locke doesn’t have the first idea what the island wants, but Locke says, “Are you sure about that?” Just then, a light comes on in the house behind Ben and a female figure passes by the window, which is a wonderfully creepy moment. Ben’s face drops as he sees what happens and confirms that yes, that is his old house, and the woman’s shadow was in Alex’s room. Locke tells him to go check it out with all the calm reserve of a camp counselor who knows he’s playing an amazing prank on a kid. Ben enters his former home to see the living room in disarray and what looks like an unfinished game of Risk laid out on the table. He makes his way back to Alex’s room and, gathering his wits, throws open the door to see Sun, who gasps in terror at the intrusion. Ben tries to figure out what she’s doing there as Frank runs in to see what’s happening. As Ben tells them they’re in his old house, Frank hands him the framed photo from the Processing Center of Jack, Kate, and Hurley among the DHARMA class of 1977. Ben says he had no idea they had been in DHARMA, but given his track record of deception and the fact that the Temple erased some of his memories, it’s impossible to know if he’s telling the truth. Frank and Sun say they met some “crazy old man” named Christian — that name slaps Ben awake — and that if Sun wanted to see Jin again, she had to wait in that house for John Locke. Ben directs them to the window, and they look outside to see Locke standing in the yard, and in a wonderful little character moment, he gives them a small wave.

A few minutes later, everyone is gathered inside, where Sun is telling Locke it’s not possible for him to be there talking to her. Locke says he doesn’t know how or why he’s there, but there must be “a very good reason for it.” Frank doesn’t want anything to do with a solution that involves “a murderer and a guy who can’t seem to remember how the hell he got out of a coffin,” and he begs Sun to return to Hydra Island with him to see if they can fix the plane’s radio and call for help. Locke tells Sun that if she leaves with Frank, she’ll never find Jin again, adding, “I’m all the help you need.” But he stops short of telling her knows exactly how to find her husband, saying merely that he has “some ideas.” This is not at all what Frank wants to hear, and he tells Sun he’s gonna bail whether she comes with him or not, but of course she decides to stick with Locke, so Frank takes off. Sun wants to begin the search right away, but Locke says Ben has something to do first, and he says it with that tone a parent uses when they won’t let you leave the table until you eat your damn green beans. Ben grits his teeth and drags the bookcase away from the wall, revealing the secret room, and he heads inside to the rear wall and pops open a second secret door to reveal the rune-covered stone last seen when he summoned the smoke monster to attack Keamy. But this time, we get to see just where he goes and what he does. Ben lights a lantern and descends a short flight of steps that leads to a low tunnel. He gets on his knees and crawls through, stopping in a small cave with room enough to stand. Ben looks down at what appears to be a rancid puddle of water that looks vaguely sewage-ish, then plunges a hand in and begins to feel around. He finds and turns a handle that drains the puddle, and soon there’s nothing there but a wet concavity with a small hole in the bottom. “I’ll be outside,” Ben says, presumably to the hole in the ground, and honestly it’s a weird moment. He just crawled in a hole in the ground and flushed something, and that’s apparently how the monster arrives. I half expected him to look at the puddle hole and say, “Bye-bye, doody. Bye-bye.”

Flashback: It’s the mid-1990s, going by Alex’s appearance and the fact that Ben is pushing her on a swingset in the Barracks, which the Others took after the Purge. Richard comes up and tells Ben the sub’s about to leave, and Ben looks again like he’s about to do an unpleasant chore. “You don’t have to see him off,” Richard says, but Ben says yes, he does. Minutes later, Ben is down at the pier where Widmore, hands bound at the wrists, is being escorted by a pair of guards toward the submarine. Ben stops them and says he came to say good-bye, but Widmore says the younger man just wants to gloat. Ben scolds Widmore and reminds him that he shouldn’t be surprised that he’s being exiled because he broke the rules by leaving the island regularly — not sure if this means frequently or normally — and had a daughter with an “outsider.” Widmore is pissed that Ben is taking what Widmore believes to be his, but Ben says he’s worthy of the role because he’ll stop at nothing to protect the island. Widmore reminds Ben he wouldn’t kill Alex, and when Ben protests that it was Widmore, not the island, that wanted the baby dead, Widmore tells Ben that she’ll die eventually if it’s what the island wants. Widmore then says that if and when that happens, Ben will be the one being exiled for breaking the rules. It’s a moderately interesting scene if only because it shows just how recently Widmore was on the island, and how much Ben already knew about Penny when Widmore was exiled. It’s also a reminder of the series’ bigger picture, namely, that a lot of what will eventually be a six-season story boils down to these two men battling for what they believe to be their respective conflicting destinies.

Back in 2008, Ben emerges from the house to find Sun sitting on the porch, and he looks around as if the monster is about to appear right then. Sun says Locke had something to do but that he didn’t say what. She starts talking to Ben about Locke and whether he’s alive or dead, but Ben assures her that Locke was dead, so forcefully that she probably figures he was complicit in the death. She asks if Ben knew Locke would return like he did when he was brought back to the island, but Ben says he didn’t. He says the island has done “miraculous things,” but that “dead is dead. You don’t get to come back from that, not even here. So the fact that John Locke is walking around this island scares the living hell out of me.” He seems to believe what he’s saying, too. Ben hears a noise in the bushes and tells Sun she might want to go inside, adding that he can’t control whatever’s about to show up, but this is a textbook set-up for a technical fakeout that will turn out to be emotionally true in an ironic way. Sure enough, instead of the smoke monster, Locke comes breaking through the trees, deflating Ben’s fear that his judgment was approaching, but also driving home the underlying point that Ben’s ability to manipulate Locke is negligible at this point. Locke asks where the monster is, saying, “Last time we didn’t have to wait this long.” This guy is beyond cool in this episode. Ben hedges and says the monster comes on its own time, but Locke says, “Well, if it’s not gonna come to us, I suppose we’ll have to go to it.” Ben says it “doesn’t work that way” and that he only knows how to summon it, not where it lives. Locke, who’s now the man with the answers, just answers quietly, “I do.” A short while later, Locke is making torches while Sun stands nearby, and he breaks the awkward tension by saying he’s having a weird time figuring out what’s going on, just like Sun is. “But I assure you,” he says, “I’m the same man I’ve always been.” She’s not completely satisfied with his statement, but they don’t get any further before Ben re-emerges from the house with his pack, and they set off for the monster.

Flashback: It’s a few days earlier, and Ben is strolling down the Long Beach marina. He’s already left Jack at the Lighthouse the night before, but he isn’t yet beat to hell, which means that’s just about to happen. He takes out his cell phone and calls Widmore, saying he’s about to go back to the island. Widmore says the island won’t let Ben return, and that Widmore himself has spent almost 20 years trying to get back there. Ben says he’ll succeed where Widmore failed right after doing one final thing: killing Widmore’s daughter. Ben stops walking as the camera shifts to his perspective to see Penny aboard her boat, straightening things on deck. Ben says he’s looking at “Our Mutual Friend” right now, which is the name of Penny’s boat — I guess it’s better than The Seaward — and hangs up the phone as he begins walking again.

Back on the island, Locke is leading Ben and Sun through the jungle when Ben asks how it is Locke knows where he’s going. Locke, rather than go ten rounds about justified true belief, says only, “I just know.” Ben presses him and asks sarcastically, “Did it come upon you gradually, or did you wake up one morning suddenly understanding the mysteries of the universe?” Locke ignores the question and addresses Ben’s real issue, which is that he doesn’t know what will happen and doesn’t like not being able to call all the shots. Ben admits that he hates being the one to blindly follow, and Locke says, “Now you know what it was like to be me.” A few moments later, Ben says he now has an idea of where they’re going, and that it’s the same place he was brought as a child and received the island’s healing. They round in the path and find themselves at the Temple, or rather, one of the large walls around it, since the Temple itself is actually about half a mile away. Ben says the wall was built “to keep people like the two of you from ever seeing it.” As they approach, Ben heads for the door, but Locke stops him by saying they’re not going into the Temple, but under it. Ben looks a little scared as Locke gestures at a fissure in the ground near the wall — which looks to be the same hole Rousseau’s teammates were dragged into years before — but he moves closer to the opening. Ben swallows nervously, then asks Sun for a favor, telling her that if she ever gets off the island to find Desmond and tell him Ben said he was sorry. This moment is the closest Ben has come since Alex’s death to emotional honesty. “Sorry for what?” Sun asks. Ben nods and says, “He’ll know,” then begins to climb down into the hole.

Flashback: Ben, still at the marina, walks quietly down the pier toward Penny’s boat. He doesn’t pay attention to the man conspicuously getting groceries out of his car as he walks by, which is a mistake, since the guy pulls back and reveals himself to be Desmond. He shouts at Ben, asking what he’s doing there, but Ben pulls a pistol from his jacket and fires a shot into Desmond’s chest, sending him to the ground. He strides back down the pier toward the boat as he raises the gun at Penny, telling her to freeze. He explains that he’s there because of Charles Widmore, and Penny tries to protest that she and her father have no relationship any more, but Ben ignores her and says he’s there because Widmore was responsible for the death of Ben’s own daughter. Just then, little Charlie emerges from below deck, and Penny tells him to run back inside. She begs Ben to spare her child’s life just as Danielle Rousseau did 20 years earlier, and it’s enough to make Ben lower the gun. As he does, he’s attacked from behind and knocked down by Desmond, which is a beautiful irony: Ben should have remembered from personal experience that a single shot to the chest isn’t always enough to kill someone. Desmond climbs on top of Ben and proceeds to whale on him mercilessly before dumping his semi-conscious body into the water.

Back on Hydra Island, Frank arrives in the outrigger as some dude runs up shouting his name. “They found guns,” the man says, and right away there’s another amazing bit of tension in the story. He tells Frank that Ilana and three of the others have declared themselves in charge. Frank heads up the beach to find Ilana and Bram getting ready to lift the giant metal crate, and she draws her rifle on him as he approaches and asks what’s going on. “What lies in the shadow of the statue?” she asks him, but it sounds more like a shibboleth than actual search for information. Frank has no idea what she’s talking about, so she repeats herself, but he’s still clueless. He doesn’t even try to come up with a vaguely conspiratorial reply — “I’m interested in all kinds of astronomy,” or something — so Ilana cracks him over the jaw with the butt of her weapon. Frank goes down like a sack of drunk potatoes as Ilana tells Bram to gather the Others and tie Frank up. “He’s coming with us,” she says as Frank passes out.

Meanwhile, over on the main island, Locke lights torches for himself and Ben now that they’re under the Temple, having left Sun topside. As they move down the stone passageway, dodging vines and rocks, Ben finally admits that Locke is right about why Ben needs to be judged. He confesses that it was his own selfishness that got Alex killed, and he takes responsibility for what happened to her and knows he has to answer for it. “I appreciate you showing me the way,” Ben says, “but I think I can take it from here.” Locke stops where he is and lets Ben walk on, but Ben doesn’t get more than 10 feet away before the floor gives out beneath him and he falls to a room below, revealing a whole other sublevel of the Temple area. Locke rushes to the broken area and shouts down to see if Ben is okay, but Ben’s got better luck than Locke does when it comes to falling in caves, and he’s fine. Locke scampers off to find something to lower down and help Ben escape, and Ben stands and surveys what’s around him. The ruins look even older than the ones one level up, and he sees that the walls and nearby columns are adorned with hieroglyphs. He approaches the end of the room, where one of the wall’s hieroglyphs depicts some kind of giant deity interacting with something designed to represent the smoke monster. The figure in the image looks a lot like Anubis, or at least it’s got a jackal’s head; it seems likely, or at least probable, that it’s the same figure honored by the giant four-toed statue.

Ben looks down and sees, set against the wall, and angled slab of stone with small holes set regularly in rows. The flame on his torch goes out as the smoke monster begins to pour out of the holes, coalescing into a larger hissing and clicking cloud as it swirls around Ben. The black cloud envelops him, and unfortunately for the series, this is probably the weakest-looking appearance of the monster so far. It’s one thing to catch a few glimpses of Eko’s life story as the monster raises up and judges him; it’s another to too heavily rely on CGI that’s not quite up to the task of making Ben’s judgment a sufficiently imposing one. The cloud flashes erratically as Ben hears his own words thrown back at him, and then Widmore’s big goofy face goes sliding across the interior of the cloud like this whole part of the episode is a deleted scene from “Xena.” The monster takes Ben through the highlights, ending with his decision to let Alex be shot. Ben breaks into penitent tears as the monster recedes and returns to its resting place in the walls, and his torch blazes to life as soon as the monster’s gone.

Just then, Ben hears Alex’s voice say, “Daddy?” He wheels around to see his daughter standing before him, looking just like she did before he killed her. He says he’s sorry for what happened, and that it was all his fault. “I know,” she says, and it looks like she might forgive him, but she quickly grabs him by the collar and shoves him up against one of the columns. She tells him she knows he’s already planning to kill Locke again — and Ben’s eyes widen at that one — but that if Ben hurts Locke in any way, Alex will hunt him down and “destroy” him. She says that Ben is to listen to every word Locke says and follow his every order. She shakes him a few times until he confesses that he’ll follow Locke, and he closes his eyes and cries a little as it looks like she’s going to attack him. But she drops her hands from his body, and when he opens his eyes again, she’s gone. Ben grabs his torch and heads back toward the opening in the ceiling, where Locke appears and begins to lower down a vine. He gazes dumbly up at Locke, unable to speak at first. Locke asks him what happened, and Ben replies with a mix of relief and sorrow, “It let me live.”

And that’s the episode. It was fun to see some of the specifics shake out between Ben and Widmore, like the nature and time of Widmore’s departure from the island. But in “The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham,” Widmore made it sound like he’d been banished via teleportation since he knew about the frozen wheel’s exit point in Tunisia; at the very least, he said to Locke that Ben had fooled him into leaving the island, whereas Widmore’s departure seemed very much like an official thing. Widmore’s timeline is also a trifle shaky, since he left the island sometime after 1992 and it’s just “now” 2008, meaning he’s been looking for the island for about 15 years instead of 20. But also: What the hell is up with Ilana? Have she and Bram been “infected” by some aspect of the monster the way Rousseau’s team was? It seems likely that she also could have ties to the island that pre-date Oceanic 815; she asked about the statue like she knew all about it and its history. She seemed originally to be just a bounty hunter trying to collect Sayid on behalf of the family of Peter Avellino, but why would that mean taking him to Guam? Did she know Ajira 316 would wind up on the island? And what exactly is in that crate? Also, in regards to Alex: Keamy blew her away, and she shows back up to talk to Ben. She’s a manifestation, a projection, of the smoke monster. The monster can make itself appear in various forms that are capable of physically interacting with the real world and its living inhabitants, just as this Alex did with Ben, but the projections also walk and talk and think like their old selves in addition to having additional knowledge about the island and its ways, thanks to their being a part of the monster or island itself. It’s how Alex can tell Ben to follow Locke; she/it knows. Because of that, it’s possible that Ben was right when he said dead is dead, and that you don’t come back, meaning Locke is really dead. The resurrections seen so far have been projections of real people, known to be deceased, whose bodies have disappeared; and they also know a lot about the island and are in tune with its desires and secrets. Alex knew Ben should follow Locke; Christian knew a lot, like how to save the island; Locke knew to go under the temple instead of through it. Locke’s line about being “the same man” he always was could be a hint that he’s anything but, and though he seems to be himself, he is in fact nothing but a living-dead projection manifested by the island. It’s just an idea for now, but still.

And seriously: What’s the deal with the whispers?

Daniel Carlson is the managing editor of Pajiba and a TV critic for The Hollywood Reporter. You can visit his blog, Slowly Going Bald.


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Comments

I'm off to read this now, but I have to tell you, Dan, I made a little squealy noise this morning when I remembered that your review would be up today. It's pretty much the only thing that has gotten me through this day, so, thanks for that!

Posted by: Lainey at April 13, 2009 2:05 PM

YES YES YES YES YES!

OK, going to read now.

Posted by: Kolby at April 13, 2009 2:25 PM

Woo hoo!

Posted by: Henry at April 13, 2009 2:26 PM

I missed the middle part of this epi, with the reveal of Desmond whaling on Ben. Not a huge surprise, but satisfying nonetheless. GREAT to see Locke somewhat running the show. But, seriously, HE'S REALLY DEAD???? WTF??????

Every episode of "Lost", and I mean EVERY episode ends with me sounding like Doctor Who..."wha...what??? WHAT?????"

Posted by: dammitjanet at April 13, 2009 2:28 PM

I too was confused about Widmore's banishment--before it was stated that he moved the island with the wheel and that's how he knew where the exit point was, and how he found Locke after Locke moved the island. Now Widmore's being carted off in handcuffs? Doesn't fit.

I assumed Ilana and the others had been infected, and used the weird questions to identify other infectees. But I also remember Desmond asking Locke a weird question when they first met. Also, what's up with that metal crate? Who brought that along?

Walt also told Locke that he saw him in a vision surrounded by people who wanted to hurt him. If the survivors were infected by the smoke monster, wouldn't they want to protect Locke? Aren't the island and the monster on the same side?

The idea that the island erased the part of Ben's memory involving his injury (and presumably his interaction with the Flight 815 survivors) seems like a cheat to me. I liked the idea that Ben did remember them all from his youth but was pretending he didn't.

And what IS up with those whispers? The transcripts of the whispers on Lostpedia are fascinating because they almost make a kind of sense, yet you still don't get any information from them. This show makes me bats.

Posted by: DeadBessie at April 13, 2009 2:30 PM

This was a crazy episode, and I need to re-read this already. I'd just like to say that I would gladly watch a show with just Ben and Locke in it, they're that fantastic together.

That look on Locke's face when Ben shot the guy? Priceless. Just a total 'oh, Ben...' look.

My Questions:

1)I've always had this thought in the back of my mind that Christian Shepherd is Jacob. I don't even know why, but there has to be an explanation for Christian being so omnipresent. And why didn't Locke see him that time they 'visited him' with Ben, but then later saw Christian with Claire?

2)What was Ben's reaction to Christian's name? Who the hell IS Christian?

3)And WHY was he going to try to kill Locke again? Give it up, dude.

4) How did Locke know about the hole in the Temple? it was JIN who saw that, not Locke.

I would've lost my shit if Locke had actually hurt Penny. I actually YELLED at my TV "DON'T FUCKING TOUCH THEM YOU BASTARD", because, obviously, I get too involved in this.

Dan, I hadn't even thought about the dead people being manifestations of the smoke monster. You just made my brain melt a little.

Are the whispers just another security measure? Could just be speakers set up around the island or something, activated by the Others.

Posted by: figgy at April 13, 2009 2:31 PM

great recap, dan.
you described locke's attitude perfectly.
it's such an interesting shift of power between him & ben now.
i agree that the cgi effects were surprisingly crappy.
on the subject of "living dead projections manifested by the island" tho..
do you think that's what showed up for hurley in la?
(when he was pulled over by 'anna lucia, the cop'?)

Posted by: gem at April 13, 2009 2:46 PM

I suspect that we just experienced the first instance of the Michael/Janet Jackson phenomenon on Lost- you never see them together, because they are the same person. Just when Locke leaves the picture, Smokey comes in, followed by Alex. Then 2 seconds after Alex disappears, Locke shows back up.

It was great to see Locke turn the tables on Ben. Thanks for the review!

Posted by: logar at April 13, 2009 2:49 PM

Dan, have i told you lately how much i love your recaps? well i do--totally the highlight of my day.

figgy, i was exactly the same way. i love Ben--i really do--but if he touched Desmond, Penny, or little Charlie i don't know if i could forgive him. i actually yelled "DON'T FUCKING SHOOT HER!" and i was elated when he lowered his gun. i had been looking forward to his beatdown--'cause no one takes a whoopin' like Ben--but i actually felt sorry for him because he couldn't go through with it and he still had to take his beating.

Posted by: pq at April 13, 2009 2:52 PM

Daniel, if it weren't for your summaries, I'd be "Lost" myself. Thanks for these labors of love ... otherwise I'd just be wandering the halls of the production office mumbling "WTF?" and "yeah, but how can that be if ... ?" to myself all day. Oh, and I'm with figgy ... the dead people being manifestations ... melted part of my brain, too. That could explain a lot. All I can say is it must be great to be a writer on this show. You get to make everything up as you go along and leave it to the execs to figure out the series' endgame. Isn't TV wonderful? Wonder what Rod Serling would think of "Lost."

Posted by: Andy Geisel at April 13, 2009 2:52 PM

This was such a great episode. I kept humming the theme from Odd Couple in my head during the Ben/Locke scenes. I thought Hurley and Sawyer were great, but these two are award worthy.

The Ilana, et al part of the story is the most intriguing to me right now. Are we sure that the Ajira flight crashes in modern time. When she mentioned the statue I wondered if they had actually landed way back in time.

And just when I think I've figured out the Ben/Widmore piece, and who is the 'real' bad guy, they turn it around on me again. I love this show.

Posted by: katy at April 13, 2009 2:55 PM

During the admittedly lame appearance of the smoke monster, Mr. Henry and I couldn't help saying, "Don't look Marion!Don't look!". After we finished, you know, high fiving that it was Anubis in the hierogylphs since that had been our call on the statue.

Thank heavens we finally know, or think we know, what Ben did to Penny and Desmond. We've spent several episodes saying, "What did you do Ben? What did you do?".

It seems we talk a lot during the show. Maybe we should just hush up and watch.

Posted by: Henry at April 13, 2009 3:00 PM

Gem - I've kind of assumed that Hurley's issue wasn't the crazy time, it is that he is kind of like Miles and can see and converse with dead people. Hence Anna Lucia in LA.

Posted by: Henry at April 13, 2009 3:05 PM

By the way, does anyone know how many episodes this season is supposed to have?

Posted by: figgy at April 13, 2009 3:06 PM

I'm convinced the Shephards are connected to the island somehow, Christian, Jack, Claire, Aaron...

I think the island is Jacob. I'm pretty sure that it's possible that the only person on the island who knows this is Richard. Everyone else may actually have seen Jacob as a person, but Richard knows Jacob, the island, and maybe Smokey are all one and the same. Like the Holy Trinity: The island is the father, Jacob (or maybe even Richard) is the son doing the works of the father on earth, and Smokey is the holy spirit. Could be.

I'm not sure what is up with Ilana and her merry men, but I am sure that they all annoy me. I don't need new characters. I'm happy with what I've got the deal with, which is plenty. I hope she gets it, and good, very soon.\

The whispers. I don't know who they are or where they come from, but they usually appear just before the Others or Smokey enter a scene.

Posted by: Kolby at April 13, 2009 3:09 PM

figgy - I think 18. I think.

Posted by: Kolby at April 13, 2009 3:10 PM

Thanks, Kolbs.

I'm not sure what is up with Ilana and her merry men, but I am sure that they all annoy me. I don't need new characters. I'm happy with what I've got the deal with, which is plenty.

Totally agree. There's enough to play around with with the characters they already have, adding new ones might necessitate other filler episodes (to explain motivations, etc) and I don't really want that at this point. BUT, it could be a great way to go back to Rousseau's people, if the 'infection' is what's happening here? Dunno, hopefully it'll be good.

Posted by: figgy at April 13, 2009 3:13 PM

Henry glad I wasn't the only one who saw the holes that ol' Smokey came out of and thought of the Staff of Rah...."and take back one Snicker bar to honor the Hebrew god who made you!"

Posted by: dammitjanet at April 13, 2009 3:17 PM

Water go down the hooole. That's what I said when he flushed the hidden toilet.

I LOVED Locke this episode. He seems so over Ben's bullshit. When Ben shot Desmond, I screamed, "You and I are DONE professionally!"

I don't think the monster has ever been spotted on Hydra island so Ilana and her crew might not be infected. I have a feeling that they might be Widmore's people. Especially with the whole code phrase about the statue. They seem like they were just playing nice until they found that crate of weapons or whatever is in there. It's possible that Widmore still has contact with Elloise, found out about the Ajira flight, and managed to get his people on it. Elloise didn't seem to trust or like Ben, he was just a way to get the Six to go back to the Island. And Widmore has been paying to take care of Faraday's (her son) mistake.

The smoke monster slideshow was pretty lame. I think if they had just used the audio of all those past events, it would've been less chessy.

Posted by: jM at April 13, 2009 3:20 PM

Oh, I should add that the metal crate is just about the right size and shape to carry a coffin.

Posted by: Kolby at April 13, 2009 3:27 PM

Great episode!

I have a theory about why pregnant women die on the Island: it's Ben's fault. His psychic trauma over his mother dying in childbirth is so great that when he gains power his connection to the Island causes all the women to die in childbirth. And this is why the Island wants to get rid of him. Maybe. It sounded better in my head before I typed it out.

Posted by: cmr at April 13, 2009 3:28 PM

cmr - I have a feeling we'll find out why women can't carry to term on-island once we find out what the incident is.

Oh, and my comment above about the metal box carrying Locke's coffin? It could also be carrying whatever it is that causes the incident. My husband thinks it might have something to do with that H-Bomb that was hanging around in the '50s. Jughead.

Posted by: Kolby at April 13, 2009 3:31 PM

A coffin for who?

Posted by: katy at April 13, 2009 3:32 PM

A coffin for who?

Locke. I'm pretty sure when bodies are transported on airplanes their coffins are usually contained in a crate of some sort.

Posted by: Kolby at April 13, 2009 3:33 PM

before it was stated that he moved the island with the wheel and that's how he knew where the exit point was, and how he found Locke after Locke moved the island

When exactly was that stated? I don't remember that. Additionally, could it be that he moved the island with the wheel once and that he left the island via other as-yet-unseen means other times (which was the reason for his banishment)? The whole how-do-I-leave-the-island? thing is still very confusing. Apparently, it's easy to take a submarine back and forth, but otherwise the methodology is sacrosanct. And I don't think that it's just the wheel that lets you leave the island, given that Mr. Friendly used the unseen means to visit Michael, and those same means were used to take Locke's dad, I presume.

I assume Ilana's question was simple dementia - the same dementia that claimed Rousseau's crew. Violent outbursts seem to be the symptom. It seems a little late in the game to make her part of some grand island conspiracy.

I don't know what to make of Ben's deceit anymore. I just assume he's lying 100 percent of the time, and this was the first episode to spell out his contradictions so clearly. (Was that genuine remorse for Desmond and Penny? Really? If not, what does that apology achieve?) The question is more one of: is any given lie to serve a greater good, or is it to serve himself?

I've long espoused the theory that the Smoke Monster is responsible for most if not all of the corporeal "hallucinations" on the island (Kate's horse, Sawyer's boar, Jack's dad, Hurley's imaginary friend, Juliet's shrink), although I have yet to formulate a full theory on how the "holy trinity" of Christian/the Monster/Jacob works.

Speaking of the Smoke Monster possibly assuming the form of dead people, could what's-his-name? (the guy with the eyepatch who killed Charlie) have been the Monster as well? He was still taking orders from Ben, which makes his level of interaction a little unusual. If it's so special that the island raised someone from the dead, what about eyepatch? Or did he somehow fake his death at the sonic fence?

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 13, 2009 3:36 PM

I can't believe I never thought of it before, but it seems to me that Christian was trying to get back to the Island somehow, and that he did the same thing as Locke--he came back by dying, and the Island brought him back to life. So he'd been there before, but how? And is he really alive or is it just a smoke monster manifestation?

Posted by: figgy at April 13, 2009 3:40 PM

"I think the island is Jacob" - Kolby

This just occurred to me, but maybe Jacob is the Biblical Jacob?

Tunisia, the exit point for the island, isn't that far from Egypt and there are all sorts of Egyptian looking hieroglyphs around the Island...maybe there's an entry point to the Island in or around Egypt and Jacob took some people there back in the day? Hell, maybe Richard IS the biblical Jacob?

Sounds silly, but you never know with this show.

Posted by: cmr at April 13, 2009 3:43 PM

Following up on Ben's rationale, how do I reconcile the following?

Ben apparently was going to the main island to face judgment for Alex, although Locke was certainly nudging him along. Ben did not blame himself for Alex's death; he blamed Widmore - hence, the attempt on Penny's life. Did he change his mind about the blame? Perhaps he had a crisis of conscience at the sight of little Charlie, but Widmore still broke the "rules," did he not? So why does he need to be judged? Why does he admit to Ghost-Alex that he truly is entirely to blame? Or does the Monster see through his bullshit and just intend to use him to help Locke? Or was it bullshit? It seemed like they were really pushing for a remorseful Ben at certain moments.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 13, 2009 3:45 PM

"I have a feeling that they might be Widmore's people. " - jR

Excellent theory! I think you're right. Widmore knew Locke was going back, it wouldn't have been hard for him to figure a way to have people on the plane. Then the box could be some kind of equipment to give Widmore the location...

Posted by: cmr at April 13, 2009 3:52 PM

Darth, we do know that all the hallucinations of dead people are the smoke monster. I think that Dan is asking whether or not Locke could possibly be a manifestation, too. I have no idea, but he does seem to know a lot more than before he died. And is Juliet's shrink dead? I thought she just went to the temple with the rest of the Others after the freighter people came, and just showed up again to tell Juliet to stop Faraday and Charlotte from releasing that gas? Am I wrong? If so, how did she die?

Posted by: jM at April 13, 2009 3:55 PM

My friends and I are calling Desmond The Bulletproof Monk now. (Oh and in my head I call him Brother Hot Ass).

Posted by: coveredinbees at April 13, 2009 3:59 PM

Crazy things happen on the island - have we forgotten Walt(!) and his soaking wet appearances? The island is able to harness a person's innermost thoughts and use them to its own advantage - through visions like Jack chasing Christian through the jungle or Kate seeing her horse, or as a means to communicate inmportant information. OR, by "infecting" people it doesn't want there. The island is able to manipulate the people on it.

Posted by: Kolby at April 13, 2009 4:01 PM

Good theories cmr! There has to be some way that Widmore gets back to the island for the sixth season show down.

Posted by: katy at April 13, 2009 4:03 PM

glad I wasn't the only one who saw the holes that ol' Smokey came out of and thought of the Staff of Rah...."and take back one Snicker bar to honor the Hebrew god who made you!"

Exactly what I thought (except for the Snickers bar). And I agree with the recap: the whole smoke monster bit was incredibly weak. But maybe that's appropriate, since Ben calling the smoke monster last season was one of the worst, most ridiculous moments in the show's history.

Posted by: Todd at April 13, 2009 4:05 PM

I think there's an interesting parallel to be drawn between Ben's being saved in the past by Sawyer/Juliet/Kate because "it's not right to let a kid die" and Ben's uncharacteristic reaction Alex as a baby, and baby Charlie. Does Big Bad Ben really have a soft spot?

Posted by: gtv at April 13, 2009 4:06 PM

jM>> I don't know if she's dead or alive. We've never seen her in Others-village outside of flashbacks. Granted, those were relatively recent flashbacks. That appearance in the jungle was odd enough to strike me as a manifestation of the Monster, and - even if she is alive - I wouldn't limit the Monster's ability to impersonate to the dead. That was my point; obviously Eko's dead brother was the Monster, but the other hallucinations were not limited to the dead, and their sources remain unsubstantiated.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 13, 2009 4:08 PM

DarthCorleone, I don't know exactly when it was stated, but I seem to recall Ben telling someone that whoever moved the island couldn't return to it, and that's why Widmore had never found the island again. Also, Widmore had surveillance cameras at the exit point because he himself had exited the island in the same manner.

And Eyepatch didn't die at the sonic fence; he distinctly told Richard that the fence wasn't set at a fatal level.

I'm dying to understand what Jacob is--why he hates technology (flashlights are bad!), why he's invisible to virtually everyone, and why he asked Locke to "help me". Could the guy be trapped in some weird netherworld as a result of the Initiative's experiments, able to see the future and manipulate a few people to set certain events into motion?

Posted by: DeadBessie at April 13, 2009 4:29 PM

I forget, but did Ben ever interact with Walt, or Aaron? I like the idea that he has somewhat of a soft spot for children (as he himself was treated so badly by his father as a child) and that it was this that kept him from shooting Penny's child. In fact I think that that moment when he lowered the shotgun is hugely significant. I wasn't expecting it at all, not from Ben.

Posted by: figgy at April 13, 2009 4:36 PM

I see what you're saying. Her appearance was, indeed, strange but they're usually more overt when Smokey's up to something. It makes me wonder just what the hell athe other Others have been doing while all of this is going on, though.

Posted by: jM at April 13, 2009 4:41 PM

figgy - we never saw for ourselves, but I'd say it's certain that Ben interacted with Walt(!) after he was kidnapped from Michael, Sawyer and Jin at the end of Season 1. Remember Mr. Friendly & the raft?

And just as Desmond has to go back tot he island, I'm betting we're not done with Walt's story either. We can't be, no one can be that important for two seasons and then...nothing.

Posted by: Kolby at April 13, 2009 4:41 PM

Alright Cindy, get in here and explain this one.

Posted by: MG at April 13, 2009 4:45 PM

I believe there was a "webisode" in which Walt, after being kidnapped, was being held in a room and did something to set off some alarm, and Juliet fetched Ben because no one else was willing to go into that room with the kid. Outside the room were dozens of dead birds. So from that I would think it's safe to say that Ben interacted with him.

Ben's line to Widmore--"This isn't an it, it's a child!" sounded genuine to me, and he seemed honestly appalled at the sight of little Charlie. I'm guessing he couldn't bear the thought of another boy having to grow up without his mother like he did.

Posted by: DeadBessie at April 13, 2009 4:51 PM

Ooh, that's true. I'd like to know what Ben thinks of Walt. I also like how the producers didn't bring back Walt for a long time in the context of the show because he...well, he just kinda grew up all of a sudden. But now he's back, and I can't wait to see more of him, because he seems to be a key character in all of this, and I don't think we're done with him.

Posted by: figgy at April 13, 2009 4:54 PM

DeadBessie>> Yes, I remember the scene in which Ben said he couldn't return, but how can I trust anything he says? And was he just playing with words? I.e., that person "can't" return, or that person is not "allowed" to return? Obviously it's not the former in Ben's case, because here he is back on the island. And it does not strike me as analogous to Widmore's situation, given that Widmore spent so long trying to get back and failing. What was so special about Ben's methodology? Why couldn't Widmore go to Mrs. Hawking if he wanted to go back? He obviously knew about her. I'll give you that there is some apparent inconsistency given that Widmore tells Ben on the phone that he won't be able to return just as he can't, but I think that might be less about the method by which someone leaves and more about the island's attitude toward that person.

I don't remember Widmore's saying that he knew about the exit point because he himself had left in that manner before, although even if that were the case it wouldn't have to have been the time that he left because he was banished.

I had forgotten the explicit mention of Eyepatch's fence incident as non-fatal. Are you sure about that?

Kolby>> I'd say that's a fair conclusion about the interaction of Walt and Ben, although I don't believe we ever actually saw a scene - with the exception of the season-two conclusion when he released Michael and Wal - that had both of them in it, did we? Also, a fair amount of the time that Walt was with the Others was also the period that Ben was imprisoned in the Hatch.

Here's a question for anyone: when and where did Ethan receive his medical training? Was he sent off the island for that?

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 13, 2009 5:02 PM

I was so excited when Desmond was still alive and beat up Ben. I can't think of a more cathartic event.

Also, I always assumed the whispers were just the Others being super sneaky in the jungle. They can hide well and only appear when they want to be seen. Maybe they can only be heard clearly when they want to be heard.

Posted by: kelsy at April 13, 2009 5:27 PM

I agree with the other two peeps who commented about Ilana and the survivors:

I DON'T CARE ABOUT YOU.

Seriously, I've got enough going on! I don't have anything left in me to emotionally deal with your stories! Please hurry up and die.

Also, I have a theory about Sun. Her and Ben crash land in present time, and everyone else goes back to the 1970's, right? Obviously, Ben couldn't go back to the 70's, because he would run into himself. And also break the flux capacitor. Ha!
But what about Sun? Why is she not back in the 70's with everyone else? Because she is Dr. Marvin Candle's baby!

Posted by: Norwego at April 13, 2009 5:35 PM

I had forgotten the explicit mention of Eyepatch's fence incident as non-fatal. Are you sure about that?
Darth, I do remember this happened.

Other than that, not too much to add, loved the episode and I can't wait to see how the season wraps up. Love these recaps!

Posted by: Alli at April 13, 2009 5:44 PM

But...we know who Sun's father is. At least we think we know, but...I hadn't even thought about that possibility. I don't know why I just thought the baby was Miles. That's a pretty interesting theory, though.

Darth, I'd say he probably got it off the Island. People were always leaving and coming back, right? And since Ethan's parents were both on the Island he'd probably be allowed to go, get his education and return as long as he didn't say anything about Dharma. Unless I'm totally missing something here. I thought the best part about having Kid Ethan hang around with Ben is that it explains why Ethan survived the genocide...Ben had taken him under his (creepy, evil) wing at that point.

Posted by: Regina Phalange at April 13, 2009 5:47 PM

Damnit. I forgot to change my name. That was me ^

Posted by: figgy at April 13, 2009 5:50 PM

Regina, you are right. After some investigating on Lostpedia, everyone seems to think that Miles is the son of Pierre Chang and his wife. The theory is that Sun didn't go back in time because Locke promised Jin he wouldn't bring her back. And Locke is all powerful now and the Island hearts him.

Posted by: Norwego at April 13, 2009 5:55 PM

Hahaha the Island hearts him. Someone help me out here, but how soon did Miles start with the nosebleeds while they were jumping around in time? If he started soon after Charlotte (which maybe I remember but maybe I'm imagining it) it could mean that he'd been on the Island before, as a baby.

Posted by: figgy at April 13, 2009 6:27 PM

Y'all are correct about Mikhail and the fence. Obviously there is way more information this show is giving than I can keep track of, much less make sense of.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 13, 2009 6:29 PM

figgy>> Yeah, Miles started getting the nosebleeds after Charlotte, but I want to also say that Juliet got them first, perhaps indicating that he had been there less than three years, however long ago it was. I could be wrong about that. I do remember seeing his nosebleed and concluding that the timing implied he had been on the island before.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 13, 2009 6:31 PM

As far as the "living dead projections manifested by the island," idea goes, it's actually quite plausible, especially because while all of the characters may not have died on the island (Locke, Christian,) their corpses obviously made their way to the island.

By this logic, the manifestations also have the ability to go off-island, which would account for Ana-Lucia and Hurley, Christian visiting Jack's office, (maybe even Claire in Kate's bedroom with Aaron? assuming she qualifies as dead now that she's joined Christian) Also excludes the possibility of Micheal's return, as I doubt there was much left of him after that explosion.

Posted by: tripM at April 13, 2009 7:20 PM

tripM >> Historically, I haven't gone out of my way to hunt down any of the official Lost internet Easter eggs, podcasts, etc. This thread inspired me to do a little digging. I found the following to be relevant/interesting/confusing...


Christian's death, though not shown on-screen, has been confirmed in a Official LOST podcast (April 20, 2007 Edition). Even further clarification was received in "Access: Granted", when Carlton Cuse stated "In terms of actually physically corporeally in existence... he's dead".

He is, along with Locke and Yemi, one of three previously deceased bodies that have gone missing and then later appeared to be living people. A few of Yemi's appearances were confirmed to be influenced by the Monster in the Official LOST Podcast (March 21, 2008 Edition), however, Christian was confirmed as being one of three characters (Yemi and Kate's horse being the other two) to be classified as "undead".

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 13, 2009 7:57 PM

That third paragraph should have been italicized as well...

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 13, 2009 7:59 PM

What to say that hasn't already been said?

First, I was terribly disappointed by Smokey's Ben smackdown. It was over so quickly, it almost seemed pointless.

Locke is the new Ben, Sawyer is the new Jack and Jack is the new Locke.

We know Smokey has manifested in specific incidences as dead people. So who is to say that Smokey isn't manifesting as any and all dead people we see walking around, including Locke and Christian? (Also including Locke's father, "killed" by Sawyer, and brought to the island via "magic box".) Meanwhile, I think it's entirely possible that the whispers are those of the island's dead - and therefore also possibly Smokey. OR, do the spirits of dead people manifest as Smokey? So when people talk about what the island wants and we get the idea of the island as a living being, perhaps it is rather that the island functions as the collective of dead spirits?

I don't think we've seen Jacob yet. I have good reason, as in something I read that isn't entirely a spoiler (I try not to read spoilers), but it is a hint.

I think Ben running into himself will be "The Incident". Or if not Ben, someone else running into him/herself.

I feel certain Miles is Dr. Chang's/Candle's son.

I don't know why Sun didn't go, but my guess is that she was never there (in the past). She was with Jin though when the Oceanic flight occurred.

I think Ben likely set up Widmore somehow to break the rules. Maybe he got Penny's mother to seduce Widmore, or entice him off island so much. Ben, knowing there was some technicality that could get him off-island, may have tricked him.

Posted by: Cindy at April 13, 2009 9:25 PM

Yeah, Locke's father was the one dead revival that threw a loop in the whole "dead body on the island," idea, as well as Charlie visiting Hurley at the mental hospital, though personally I chalked that up to Hurley being batshit crazy.

Locke's father also introduced the whole idea as the island being a form of purgatory/hell, which seemed to be inserted just to confuse viewers more than anything else.

I wonder if Eko will come back... killed by the smoke monster than manifested? Hasn't happened yet.

Posted by: tripM at April 13, 2009 9:35 PM

Hmm...but if Locke really is dead, why and how did Ben plan to kill him again, as "Alex" claimed he wanted to? I'm assuming Ben knows about Smokey, so why would he try to kill Locke again?

Posted by: figgy at April 13, 2009 11:19 PM

figgy, it seemed as though Ben was shocked to see Locke, even as he claimed he knew Locke would be resurrected. I'm guessing he doesn't know exactly what Locke is.

Posted by: Cindy at April 13, 2009 11:35 PM

*headscratch*

Posted by: figgy at April 13, 2009 11:41 PM

A friend of mine mentioned this to me: In biblical terms, Aaron was the great-great-grandson of Jacob. It could be possible that this is made reference throughout the show in the future, indicating that Claire and Jack may be the great-grandchildren of Jacob. We know Jack has a grandfather and it is possible that he is the son of Jacob.

Posted by: Monica at April 13, 2009 11:46 PM



Jacob reminds me of "The Management" from HBO's Carnivale. Anybody else here into that (unfortunately short-lived) show?

Back to LOST:
Could Jacob ultimately be one of the castaways' future selves sent to the past?
Maybe... Jack? Jack, Jacob,...oddly similar sounding names,& why else would Smokey continue to take the form of Dr. CHRISTIAN Shepherd? We never see Eko's brother anymore, & Locke... He & Jack were antagonists for a while (Science vs. Faith).
This whole show since Day One has been about characters' individual relations to parents, particularly fathers - ORIGINS.
Jack is obviously being set up as a future Christ figure, even though Locke's the one who died & was resurrected (wasn't Easter just this past Sunday?) as perhaps an example for Jack.

...Locke as the "father" Jack should've had, instead of the one (Christian) he was stuck with.


What about that Charming Devil Richard? maybe he's Jacob... referring to himself in the Third Person (remember, he doesn't answer to anyone,does he?)

Allright then... better get back onto my rocker.


I just hope Season 6 doesn't have anything to do with Space Aliens, or anything else too similar to Erich von Daeniken's flights of fancy.


Posted by: oskar667 at April 14, 2009 12:10 AM

the name 'Ben': is this a reference to the Tribe of Benjamin ...the tribe exiled from the Promised Land by the other Eleven?
Promised Island, that is...

Guess that's why he got booted off the island,& why The-Island-As-Christian told Locke he (Locke, that is) was the onewho HAD turn the Wheel at the end of S4.

Monica: Thanks for mentioning him! Locke was wearing Jack's grandpa's shoes after his being loaded into that coffin...

Posted by: oskar667 at April 14, 2009 12:20 AM

This would have been a great episode if not for the ridiculous wigs and the horrendous use of CGI. That kind of ruined the episode for me.

Posted by: Thijs at April 14, 2009 4:43 AM

I'm definitely getting 'First Evil' vibes about the smoke monster and it's manifestations of people. I think you may have that part right. Except:
The resurrections seen so far have been projections of real people, known to be deceased, whose bodies have disappeared.

Not sure about that - Walt appeared to Locke a while back, and Walt is not dead.

Posted by: Tarn at April 14, 2009 6:19 AM

You all have so many great, well-thought-out theories, and I am not worthy!!!

Posted by: dammitjanet at April 14, 2009 8:19 AM

Not sure if anyone has pointed this one out-

If we run with the idea of the smoke monster manifesting itself in the dead characters, there was a moment that validates that in the last episode. When Ben is waiting outside after calling the smoke monster through the gross underground toilet, there's a moment that's over-the-top dramatized as something comes rustling out of the bushes. Of course, it's Locke, which was obvious. But it could have been both. Ben expects to see the smoke monster in it's regular smokey/lightning form, and instead it comes out as it's newest reincarnation, John Locke.

Posted by: tripM at April 14, 2009 10:21 AM

[I’ve been warned this comment is a spoiler, but since I myself don’t want to be spoiled, I’m adding this heads-up without actually having read it. In any event, I’d just like to remind everyone that posting theories is one thing, but posting actual spoilers is another, and if you must do it, please give a warning. Thanks much. — Dan]

The boat is named “Our Mutual Friend” because it is the last book Desmond wants to read before he dies.
Jacob will be seen in the first part of the season finale.

The Ilana, et al part of the story is the most intriguing to me right now. Are we sure that the Ajira flight crashes in modern time. When she mentioned the statue I wondered if they had actually landed way back in time.
They are in modern times, yes. There is the runway that was being worked on by Kate/Sawyer, as well as all the DHARMA buildings.

I think the writers did mess up with having Widmore leave on the sub, but I'm just going to pretend they put a tracking device on a polar bear and made it turn the wheel and that is how he knew. Or maybe you learn the exit points in Others 201, right after Latin.

Posted by: Stew at April 14, 2009 11:58 AM

Hey Stew, there might be people who don't want to be spoiled.

Posted by: Cindy at April 14, 2009 12:06 PM

Here's what has been eating at me...

Where the F**K are Rose & Bernard!?

They don't get to time travel or hang out with the 1977 dharma crew?

Please tell me they didn't die in the Flaming arrow onslaught.

...and where did Walt's dog go? I believe Walt's dog went back in time and is the true face of the statue. I mean, wierder things have happened on the island, right?

Posted by: JizzMasterZero at April 14, 2009 1:21 PM

We should all consider that the supernatural bits (many mentioned in this thread) will never be fully explained. Most likely, we will find out that Smokey, Jacob, et al. caused the hallucinations of the characters.

Has anyone else noticed that sometimes the creators of this show have very simple explanations, such as Kate's reason for returning to the island (to fine Aaron's mother, Claire)?

Posted by: Brett at April 14, 2009 2:18 PM

JizzMasterZero>> Bernard and Rose are hiding out in the cave and just waiting for the craziness to subside. Vincent is with them. They will be scared to leave, get hungry, and decide to eat Vincent. Then they'll die, and their skeletons will be found by Jack and Kate.

(That's a theory, of course. Not a spoiler. Hence, the Vincent-eating.)

Posted by: DarthCorleone at April 14, 2009 2:58 PM

I've often thought the whispers were the Lostaways hearing their own past/future selves. I assume you can't actually come into contact with your own past/future self, 'cause of the whole "rip the space-time continuum" idea of time travel, though it hasn't actually been established as being impossible here.

I am enjoying all this talk of Aaron as Jacob's great-great-grandson. That throws a whole new spin on things, doesn't it? Love it. And love love love the switch in the dynamic between Locke & Ben. Terry O'Quinn was awesome this episode.

Well, back to work, now that my brains is all mushified.

Posted by: Anna von Beaverplatz at April 15, 2009 2:58 PM












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