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And the License Said You Had to Stick Around Until I Was Dead


"Jon & Kate Plus 8" / Dustin Rowles

TV Reviews | May 29, 2009 | Comments (81)


I was expecting something else. I don’t follow the tabloids or even much celebrity gossip any more, but I’d inescapably gathered — as a person with a computer and a television — that Jon and Kate Gosselin, the parents of eight children (including sextuplets) and stars of their own reality show were having difficulties in their marriage. I thought it was, perhaps, fodder to increase viewership for the show, which I’d planned to review as a throwaway piece for shits and giggles. As it turns out, it’s a lot more difficult to make fun of “Jon & Kate Plus 8” than I thought it’d be. The disintegration of their marriage is real. It’d be impossible to fake what’s going on onscreen, and if a producer wanted to create marital drama, it’d be more about angry outbursts and constant bickering. But angry outburst and constant bickering characterized the first four seasons of the show, and that’s when their marriage was still a happy one. Now, it’s passive aggressiveness, it’s avoidance, it’s inability to confront one another, and it’s icy tension, all of which make for an unsettlingly real watching experience, which is not what I was expecting from a show on TLC.

Before watching the fifth season premiere of “Jon & Kate Plus 8,” I had a passing familiarity with the show. Mrs. Pajiba-hyphenate occasionally turned it on late at night while I was reading (she’s far more compelled by “18 Kids and Counting”), and I’d gathered the gist of Jon and Kate’s marital dynamic (which is far more interesting than the fact they have eight children). Kate is a harsh, acid-tongued, argumentative wife and mother, while Jon is the passive, put-upon, sometimes absent-minded, husband who follows his wife’s orders, sometimes well and sometimes not so well. It’s a familiar relationship dynamic — I see it in many of my friends’ marriages. The wife almost always comes out on top — either the husband relents, or he puts up a huge, pride-fueled argument, and then he relents. Fair enough, as long as it’s happening behind closed doors and away from friends, family, and the public at large, who can go on believing that the dynamic is a more even one. For a lot of men, I think it’s an almost comfortable role, as it allows them to abrogate a small bit of responsibility, especially when it comes to parenting. Some Dads are content to argue spitefully that they’d love to switch places with their wives and be the primary caregiver, but other fathers who share — or even do the majority of the parenting — realize that, no matter how much they love their children, being responsible for keeping them fed, well-slept, properly bathed, preoccupied most of the day is more daunting than almost any 9-5 job, even if it more rewarding.

Perception also plays a huge role. And I think that — regardless of whether Jon slept with the woman he’s been alleged to have slept with (and from his body language on the show, it’s obvious he did something wrong ) after four years of public emasculation and two years of full-time Daddy duty (he “quit” his job two seasons ago to take care of the kids full time) I suspect that Jon wanted to reclaim some of his pride, assert some independence, and stop spending his life (badly) taking orders. He’s not entirely unsympathetic, but if Jon and Kate really wanted to do what was best for their children — which is what they spend the majority of the premiere arguing — then they would’ve called off the fucking show already.

But they haven’t, and in turn, we’re privy to the slow, but obvious, dissolution of their marriage. And it’s unpleasantly uncomfortable. It’s not the train wreck I couldn’t look away from I was anticipating — it’s a train wreck I didn’t take any joy in watching. In fact, to make that discomfort more immediate, this season premiere does something that I don’t think that past seasons have done (and I may be wrong): It intercuts footage the producers caught months ago with testimonials that are closer to present day, which allows the couple to comment on what’s going on in their marriage today while watching it come apart months ago. Not that we’d need the testimonials to tell us that — it’s painfully clear.

The premiere focuses on the 5th birthday party of the sextuplets, but again it’s not really about the “8.” It’s about Jon and Kate, who I don’t think were particularly good parents before the marital problems. But who am I to say what kind of parent I’d be if I had eight children, particularly considering that they’re being judged on edited footage. But from what I can gather, Kate is frequently traveling to support her book, while Jon is present but largely absent. His mind is elsewhere. At the job he no longer has, or in a future that doesn’t involve television cameras. Or in a place where he thinks he’s too goddamn good to spend his life looking after the kids. And yet both consistently complain about the demands of being a parent, and like a lot of husbands and wives, seem to be in a series’ long argument on who sacrifices the most for their children. The answer: The children, who have to sacrifice their childhoods to television cameras and, now, the constant presence of paparazzi, who follow them everywhere they go and capture every balloon they lose to the sky, while their parents benefit in the form of millions of dollars and round-the-clock babysitters who do a lot of the hard work off camera.

Anyway, the kids are cute and somehow seem to live a relatively normal existence. But then again, five-year-olds don’t expect a lot: A few bubbles, some bouncy stuff, and a birthday cake, all of which Jon and Kate provide with the help of TLC producers, no doubt. What’s more troubling, however, is the fact that Jon and Kate barely share two words between each other at the birthday party. Whatever went down between the two clearly went down before the show taped, and neither Jon nor Kate really bother to shine it on for the cameras. But in addition to the tension, there’s a certain wistfulness to the proceedings. Despite what they’re putting their children through, clearly they love them, which makes the occasional hug or tender moment between parent and child stomach churning because you know what’s going through their heads: This may be the last birthday party we may all spend together. It’s palpable. And sad enough that it made me — and I expect much of the audience — feel uncomfortably voyeuristic. We shouldn’t be watching it, and for God’s sake, they shouldn’t be offering it up for the cameras.

But that’s reality TV. Put aside the tabloid associations, and it’s sociologically compelling. The fame and attention reality TV brings might have felt strangely alluring four seasons ago. However, as opposed to the always smiley and uncomplicated marriage on “18 Kids and Counting,” this show is beginning to reveal the long-term consequences that cameras can have on a marriage. “Jon and Kate Plus 8” is what Josh Harris, the Internet pioneer documented in Quiet: We Live in Public, predicted: No relationship can survive the kind of constant scrutiny only a video camera can provide. And there’s not a lot of entertainment value in watching it. Just anguish.


Dustin Rowles is the publisher of Pajiba. You can email him or leave a comment below.


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Comments

I'm gonna dry-hump your leg for the Liz Phair reference...

Posted by: Skitz at May 28, 2009 2:06 PM

I saw the premiere too, and it was painful to watch. Voyeuristic is a good word for it. I should not be watching this, yet here I am and I'm fast-forwarding through commercials (Thanks, the Future).

Posted by: annoyingmouse at May 28, 2009 2:11 PM

...and they just signed on for another 40 episodes. Not that I blame John, who seems like he really doesn't want to do it any more, that much child support would be impossible without 50K a week.

Posted by: admin at May 28, 2009 2:11 PM

I have never watched this, and I only know of the insanity of their marriage thanks to...The Soup. And that insane clip they showed of Kate babbling on about something for like a minute while Jon stared into space looking completely out of it. Or probably meditating murder.

Boy, those 8 kids are going to grow up to be fine citizens. Really, the most fucked up thing here isn't their marriage--it's that they're selling their kids for a television show. Horrible. Even worse that it produces people like Octomom, who seem to have multiple children just for the sake of becoming a kept quasi-celebrity.

Outstanding review, Dustin.

Posted by: figgy at May 28, 2009 2:14 PM

Great review. I too had only heard of this through bits a pieces out of the tabloids, but had wondered what was really going on. It is always sad when a marriage ends, particularly when there are children involved. Hopefully that lesson won't be lost in the sensationalization of this family.

There have been so many times during past arguments with the Mr. that I have wished for a tape recorder so we could document what was actually said. That way when we would inevitably get to the point where we were accusing each other of saying something, with the other denying it, we could play back the exchange and see who was right. It was always me who was right though, of course. But seeing how this dynamic has been used in this poor excuse of a show, it's definitely better that this was never possible. Some things are best left forgotten and bewildered over. And hopefully in the future, maybe even laughed over.

Posted by: katy at May 28, 2009 2:18 PM

"...but if Jon and Kate really wanted to do what was best for their children...
then they would’ve called off the fucking show already."

Okay. Now that the leg-hump is over and I've read the review, you're dead on. I've seen a little of the show here and there and probably 3-4 episodes in their entirety. I really had no opinion of them either way - no "clown-car vagina" feelings, no cashing in on thier children resentment, etc... Plus, the kids were cute as hell to watch. That being said, I watched the first half of the premiere and had to turn it off.

In light of recent cheating allegations and "secret contracts" and numerous tabloid covers, you summed it up perfectly in that one sentence - they need to end the show. Period. TLC needs to grab hold of some fucking morals and realize that these kids don't need the availability of their parent's divorce available to them in a DVD box set. Regardless of what a bitch she might be and whatever he did, there's no reason in the world, none whatsoever, to treat it as entertainment anymore. Other "reality" shows can do whatever the hell they want... This is pretty goddam tragic and the fact that nearly ten million people tune in to watch a marriage dissolve between commercial breaks is fucking pathetic. And incredibly sad...

Posted by: Skitz at May 28, 2009 2:20 PM

OMG I think I'm gonna drown in my own hate for these SCUMBAG, FREELOADING, BREEDERS.


Fucking animals.

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at May 28, 2009 2:20 PM

"...but if Jon and Kate really wanted to do what was best for their children...
then they would’ve called off the fucking show already."

Okay. Now that the leg-hump is over and I've read the review, you're dead on. I've seen a little of the show here and there and probably 3-4 episodes in their entirety. I really had no opinion of them either way - no "clown-car vagina" feelings, no cashing in on thier children resentment, etc... Plus, the kids were cute as hell to watch. That being said, I watched the first half of the premiere and had to turn it off.

In light of recent cheating allegations and "secret contracts" and numerous tabloid covers, you summed it up perfectly in that one sentence - they need to end the show. Period. TLC needs to grab hold of some fucking morals and realize that these kids don't need the availability of their parent's divorce available to them in a DVD box set. Regardless of what a bitch she might be and whatever he did, there's no reason in the world, none whatsoever, to treat it as entertainment anymore. Other "reality" shows can do whatever the hell they want... This is pretty goddam tragic and the fact that nearly ten million people tune in to watch a marriage dissolve between commercial breaks is fucking pathetic. And incredibly sad...

Posted by: Skitz at May 28, 2009 2:22 PM

Great article. Like you, I was initially pulled into watching this show from the wife, but I have only myself to blame for continuing to watch.

It is indeed more sad and hard to watch to see the two of them pass one another at the party without so much as a look. The vibe is palpable - you can feel their avoiding eyes burning into each other's backs.

But I have to say that I am unable to fault the parents for putting their lives on camera as long as I am watching it. If I was an avid reality-tv hater (which I have been in the past), I might scoff and place myself higher up on the food chain, but being the person "watching" this train wreck doesn't make me any better than them.

Still, I don't plan on making a reality show of my marriage anytime soon...

Posted by: Robby at May 28, 2009 2:24 PM

I had wondered if you guys were going to post anything about this show. Dustin, I think you really captured how I've been feeling about it. I started watching the show casually last year... At first, I didn't like it. I found Kate unkind and that she was completely emasculating Jon. Then the more I watched, the more I felt that there was actually some love underneath the rough exterior. I found them kind of normal, the kids adorable, and started to enjoy the show. And then starting a few months ago, things really began to shift... Jon and Kate became more and more orange, we saw less of the kids, and they didn't even seem to be talking to each other. It started to get unpleasant to watch. There was so much build-up to this season premiere and I didn't really know what to expect from it. So I watched... and it was heartbreaking. It was just sad. I'm not going to watch anymore... It's not the cute show it once was. They actually really remind me of Annette Bening and Kevin Spacey in "American Beauty" now, you know? The relationship is all but dead; he's fantasizing about younger girls and trying to recapture something real from his youth, while she's obsessed with the perfect image and maybe looking for a stronger or more successful man to bang her on the side. Can't you just see her in that "Fuck me, your majesty!" scene? Eep. I'll stick with the Duggars.

Posted by: b at May 28, 2009 2:26 PM

TLC needs to grab hold of some fucking morals and realize that these kids don't need the availability of their parent's divorce available to them in a DVD box set.

Damn, Skitz, that turn of phrase right there just broke my tiny shrewish heart a little.

Posted by: Sarah at May 28, 2009 2:33 PM

I don't understand the fascination with how other people raise their kids. The mom swap shows, the TLC shows all that stuff. I just don't get it. I watched a few moments of this show. Kate being such a shrew and all the kids being kids and whining/fighting/needing just stressed me out. I was impressed with her organizing skills, but ultimately they are a byproduct of her controlling personality which causes her so much distress.

Posted by: Jennifer at May 28, 2009 2:46 PM

The problem with all of these shows is the story is fueled by the editing.
I would not be surprised that even if the parents looked or talked at the party it was cut in editing since TLC is NOW making money off of the scandal, real or not, of that has been created by the internet and the tabloids.

That being said, I'll admit I've watched once or twice and that was just because I wanted to see if it was as bad as The Soup made it out to be.
Jesus, someone as anal/OCD as Kate has no business with that many kids. You can see that Jon has just checked out and has decided that whatever Kate wants, Kate will get or everyone will be miserable.
No doubt they love their kids and each other but the show and the house and the haircut and the book tour and the money have taken over as the priorities in their lives.

Jon & Kate Plus 8 In Therapy should be the next step if anyone really cared about the kids and this marriage.

Posted by: Jules at May 28, 2009 2:48 PM

I'd watch this show on and off before she got her tummy tuck, and thought it was cute. But after the makeovers and then the new house, I got disgusted. It all reeked of goody bags and Octomom.

The only good I hope comes out this, is that it will prevent Octomom from getting her own show.

Posted by: BWeaves at May 28, 2009 2:56 PM

I hate this goddamn show, just because of all the assholes on the net that are devoted to tearing Kate down and painting Jon as the hapless husband. Why?

Because Kate looks good, because she looks bad, because she looks better that they think she has a right to, because she 'doesn't look like a mom of 8', because she has a job, because she doesn't have a job, because she has a better job than they do, because she has money, because she has more money than they do, because people like her, because people hate her, because she makes them look bad, because she makes them look good.

The people that claim to care about the kids' welfare spend more time bitching about Kate which makes me have to defend her which pisses me the fuck off. She's not Madonna, she's not Mother Theresa, she's just a mom making the best decisions she can and getting judged for it by people who are pissed off that she makes their lives seem boring and mundane. Fuck, why do I care? I have to leave the house, NOW.

Goddamn it.

Posted by: TWoP Fan at May 28, 2009 2:58 PM

We watch from time to time. Kate sux. I don't love John either, but Kate is a fucking pill.

Posted by: Eep at May 28, 2009 2:58 PM

I hope they're taking whatever money they're making from DVD sales and book sales and squirreling it away in savings accounts so that by the time the kids are in junior high, they can stop filming. Because, besides the possible dissolution of their parents' marriage, can you imagine anything worse than those kids having to go through puberty on camera? Obviously, they had no say in having the first few years of their lives filmed, but I hope they'll have a say at some point.

Posted by: Melissa at May 28, 2009 3:00 PM

yay for the liz phair reference!!! you know, before she got into gambling (or crack, or building "fast and furious" kind of cars which I imagines costs a lot of money, or single handedly sustaining an entire third world country) and resort to make the soundtrack of the new 90210 for a living. seriously liz???
and why oh way relationship seam so often based on finding someone that let's you be your full on worse self instead of getting someone that push you to be a better you? I mean you are going to end up miserable regardless at least give it a shot! and yeah I'm fully aware mine was the silly rhetorical question of a single...

Posted by: rio at May 28, 2009 3:07 PM

My parents are like this, and they only had me. If there had been eight of me, they probably wouldn't still be married. Like Kate said, parents of multiples have triple the divorce rate. And those statistics come from families who don't live their lives in front of a camera.

Posted by: RhymesWithSilver at May 28, 2009 3:11 PM

I was hoping Liz Phair was going to appear on the show. Oh well.

"you've never been a waste of my time. it's never been a drag."

Posted by: Ryan at May 28, 2009 3:21 PM

"...but if you're tired of looking at my face,
I guess I already am."

This is heartbreaking. Did anyone else read the Entertainment Weekly article on this show a couple of weeks ago? At the end of the article, Jon basically says that the money is too good for him to be able to walk away, and Kate actually says that people have watched the kids grow up, and that they (J&K) "owe it to [the fans]" to keep the cameras rolling. I couldn't believe it. She feels she has an obligation to the fans to keep exploiting her kids? At least Jon is honest enough with himself to admit that it's because he's addicted to the money - but neither of them acknowledged the strain this puts on their marriage, or the possibility that it was not the best thing for their children.

Posted by: Edith at May 28, 2009 3:29 PM

I remember the episode where she yelled at him for BREATHING TOO LOUD. I'm a woman and I still wanted him to belt her across the face like an episode of Cops. Apparently most of her family can't stand her either.

Posted by: scorzi at May 28, 2009 3:49 PM

Anyone who allows their life to be turned into a "reality show" deserves as much pain and suffering as can be imagined.

I wish that all people who appear in "reality tv", the people who watch them, and the people responsible for putting it on television would just be sucked into hell and tortured for all eternity.

Posted by: John W at May 28, 2009 3:52 PM

The guy’s got 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 kids, and he’s trying to get some strange on his hang-low. The fuckin' balls on this guy!

Posted by: Guess Who! at May 28, 2009 3:55 PM

"OMG I think I'm gonna drown in my own hate for these SCUMBAG, FREELOADING, BREEDERS.

Fucking animals.

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at May 28, 2009 2:20 PM"\

AAAAmen! I am so fucking tired of parents who think they're owed the world for breeding. Like we asked for eight miniature Jon and Kates! Those poor kids. Celebrities, be they "talented" or just "reality" celebs, should be sterilized. Period. Oh, same goes for rednecks like the cow with the clown-car vagina. Let's get a grip on the people that are already born before over-stuffing the planet with new ones.

Posted by: snarla at May 28, 2009 4:00 PM

I loved J&K+8 way back before they were potty training the sextuplets (Alexis and Aidan? come home with me). But once they started showing the little kids sitting on the potties in the hallway, the driveway etc, it just felt wrong to me. I know they're little but come on, don't they deserve to go potty in peace? There are ZERO boundries regarding what will and won't be filmed at their house. You don't see that on 18 Kids and Counting because the Duggars have very clear boundries for the crew in order to give their kids what little privacy they can while being filmed for the show.

Posted by: Rachel at May 28, 2009 4:00 PM

Not that I would probably make my life into a reality show if I had eight kids (man, one of the perks of being gay: each kid has to be puhLANNED), but I don't really blame Jon and Kate in the beginning for doing a TV series. I was my own subject of a documentary project I did in film school and honestly, after about 20 minutes of having a camera on you, you really forget it's there and you don't even notice.

I guess I'm quasi-defending them in asserting that I doubt it's terribly obtrusive to the kids, especially as they've grown up with this their whole lives. And from what I've seen of Kate interviews, it seems like they have a good relationship with their camera crew, so I don't see it too terribly much as exploiting the kids (I mean, of course they are exploiting the kids, but not in an overtly horrible way). I think I heard Kate put it once that these are essentially really well done home movies to the family. Makes sense to me.

Of course, there's one home movie I have from around the time of my parents' separation and believe you me, it is terribly unpleasant to watch. ::shrugs::

It basically just seems that this spun into a vortex of tabloid popularity that they couldn't have foreseen in the slightest and now it feels like they're in too deep to pull the plug. What started out as perfectly harmless and cute seems to have devolved into something more sinister, and it's kind of sad to watch how it's unfolding.

Posted by: whatBENwatches at May 28, 2009 4:05 PM

You know what "TLC" stands for?

It stands for "The Learning Channel."

I'm completely serious--it does. You could look it up.

Posted by: Jerce at May 28, 2009 4:06 PM

Kate's a control-freak, Jon's a passive-agressive wanker. These two deserve each other.

And of course the money's too good for Jon to walk away. Even he's not stupid enough to think he's gonna get any groupie-ass as an unemployed divorcee with 8 monthly child support payments.

Posted by: ceejeemcbeegee at May 28, 2009 4:17 PM

I hate this goddamn show, just because of all the assholes on the net that are devoted to tearing Kate down and painting Jon as the hapless husband. Why?

Posted by: TWoP Fan at May 28, 2009 2:58 PM

WOW, just WOW, we tear the bitch down because she is the WORST type of abusive mother who has managed to turn her kids into a business enterprise, she's no better than a pimp. In EVERY single episode she goes out of her way to demean her husband.

YOU are one fucked-up individual, dude, if you defend this cunt.

Here's hoping you never reproduce.

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at May 28, 2009 4:21 PM

I can't say I was surprised when the stories about Jon's philandering came out - from the first time I saw the show (I believe it was the tummy-tuck episode) all I could think was that these two people don't even seem to LIKE each other, let alone LOVE each other. Breaks my heart - so many people get married for the wrong reasons, then have kids when the marriage isn't as exciting as they hoped it would be. I'm sure they do love the kids, but it's a shame they never found a way to interact with each other without the petty picking and grousing. Having eight kids and a TV show is only complicating the problem - these two were doomed from the beginning, because neither one of them treats the other with any consideration at all. If she's not belittling him, he's grousing about her - it's unreal. Who wants to live like that - on camera OR off?

Posted by: Tammy at May 28, 2009 4:25 PM

Aww, Pookie, is that you?

Damn, I DID like this site.

Posted by: TWoP Fan at May 28, 2009 4:33 PM

What BarbdoSlim said.

Though I find Mr. Slim amusing at times, I'm getting weary of him using the word cunt, I find it very offensive.

Posted by: Guess Who! at May 28, 2009 4:43 PM

Before my parents packed up and took off for North Carolina earlier this year, they lived about a minute from Jon and Kate. The word around town is that Kate is a mega bitch.

Posted by: henchman for hire at May 28, 2009 4:48 PM

Though I find Mr. Slim amusing at times, I'm getting weary of him using the word cunt, I find it very offensive.

Gonna have to disagree with you there. That word makes me giggle like a school girl.

Posted by: henchman for hire at May 28, 2009 4:51 PM

One thing that bugs me about Kate is her commenting in a negative way about her older girl, Maddie. The kid clearly hates being part of the show, and acts out like any normal 8 year old, and she gets slammed by her mom on national tv.

That is one big fucking bowl of wrong.

Posted by: Janey at May 28, 2009 4:51 PM

Remember the two sets of octoplets that were born about 10 year's ago? One set had one babie die, and the other set got more attention because all 8 lived. You don't hear squat about them, and that's a good thing. Still, I wonder, in comparison, how they're doing.

Posted by: BWeaves at May 28, 2009 4:53 PM

What started out as perfectly harmless and cute seems to have devolved into something more sinister, and it's kind of sad to watch how it's unfolding.

Word, whatBENwatches. Word.

Posted by: Rachel at May 28, 2009 4:53 PM

"...Though I find Mr. Slim amusing at times, I'm getting weary of him using the word cunt, I find it very offensive..."


--------------------------------------

I'm not here to amuse you OR offend you, my feelings are my own, this is not an "experience" this not a "way of life" I don't WORK for you I say whatever the hell I feel like saying.

You don't like it?

Get me banned, like you did the Pook man. I DON'T GIVE good GOD..DAMNED, you commie hipster. You only like people talking their minds when you agree with them.

RIGHT?

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at May 28, 2009 5:04 PM

BarbadoSlim, who is this Pook man? I just discovered pajiba a few weeks ago so I’m not to familiar with this person, and I can assure you I never got anyone banned. I must admit Sir, I have no idea about what you’re talking about.

Posted by: Guess Who! at May 28, 2009 5:19 PM

I can't believe I'm getting harassed for sticking up for the Gosselin kids.

This world is, FUCKED. UP.

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at May 28, 2009 5:23 PM

No BarbadoSlim, you’re getting harassed for calling their mother a cunt. You’re behavior is misogynistic and sad.

Posted by: Guess Who! at May 28, 2009 5:35 PM

I'd maybe agree that Kate is exploiting her kids, but it's a bit extreme to say she's the WORST kind of abusive mother. Dude, do you read the papers?

Posted by: Cree83 at May 28, 2009 5:38 PM

Did anyone catch the ep when they answered viewer mail?

Question: Does it bother you [Kate] that your kids don't look like you at all?

Kate (deadpan): No. I've always wanted a bunch of little Asian babies.

Yeah. THAT.

Posted by: ceejeemcbeegee at May 28, 2009 5:39 PM

FREE THE GOSSELIN 8!


FREE THE GOSSELIN 8!

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at May 28, 2009 5:43 PM

You gotta admit, BSlim - at least they didn't get all fuckered on LSD have an all-you-can-eat eyeball buffet... At least they didn't do that, right?

Posted by: Skitz at May 28, 2009 5:51 PM

....huh. And we were doing so well.

That rant was supposed to be ironic, right Slim? I mean, you knew who you were responding to and just decided to fuck with him, right?

Posted by: Vermillion at May 28, 2009 6:02 PM

Yeah, let's go with that.

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at May 28, 2009 6:04 PM

Or let's not, it's very easy to try and turn this thing into a Slim called this woman "cunt" issue. The way I see it, if she's a cunt or isn't cunt or cunts in general? That is beside the issue, which happens to be that this eternally angry woman is exploiting 8 innocent children and her de-testicled husband.

Some Pajiba pseudo-liberal wants to make it about the word "cunt"?

I really couldn't care less.

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at May 28, 2009 6:11 PM

I kinda meant the whole banning you-know-who part really.

Posted by: Vermillion at May 28, 2009 6:30 PM

Does anybody know what BSlim looks like or have a picture? I need to know so that I can get a tattoo likeness of my new hero on my fucking taint. They should name a Space Shuttle after you or something, man. That shit is solid gold. Fuck Kate G and the sick brothel of self indulgence that this bitch runs. I know, I know, she laughs all the way to the bank. We'll see how she feels in 20 years when none of her kids will even send her a Christmas card for the uncontrollable fuckery that their lives have become. And they didn't even have a choice...

Posted by: John Denver's Wingman at May 28, 2009 6:44 PM

BSlim is a handsome motherfucker whom I would allow to abuse my C-word with no remorse. True Fucking Story. I would if I could.... Oh hells yes.

(I lurved him in the cave, and I still lurve him now. )

Haters? What's that??? I CUNT hear you!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Janey at May 28, 2009 9:47 PM

Hi Vermillion I haven’t had the pleasure of talking to you seeing as I’m new to this website. Hey aren’t you the guy with the dreams of being some sort of t.v. star? I keep looking in the trade papers for your name but I can’t seem to find it. Keep the faith my good man, these things take time.

Posted by: Guess Who! at May 28, 2009 10:16 PM

I'm just going to wait for the dvd that only contains the little kids being cute and cuts out Kate and John altogether. I'm addicted to how damn cute those kids are, otherwise I never would have watched this show for a second.

John is castrated and pathetic and lord how I feel for him. From what I can see the guy's whole emotional range has been reduced to shame and barely contained rage.

Posted by: imk at May 28, 2009 10:31 PM

GUH, can we go five minutes without a fucking thread hijack these days? (For the record, Slim, I'm a Pajiba hyper-liberal and your usage of the C-Word didn't phase me one bit). The GRANDSTANDING about it from the other side, however - Can't we all just get back to the point, which is that this show is fucked up, the kids have no chance of being normal, John's a fuckwit and Kate's power-drunk at the wheel of her family's oversized RV? And TLC continues to produce this shit, which no one should be surprised about at all, because we're still talking about it. When we're not pontificating, that is.

Posted by: Tammy at May 28, 2009 10:37 PM

hi-jack: does anyone remember that vh1 reality show a few years ago with like three bands dukin it out for some prize? i think one's name was fiddlesticks or some nonsense.
anyway, there was an all-girl gothy band, can't remember the name, but they had a song dedicated to a boy named mike hunt.
just them screaming melodically, "mike hunt, mike hunt, mike hunt" is all i remember.
anyway, i just thought of that.


so, um, yeah, the mom's an ugly person, and the dad's kinda do-able, in that "my affair with this pacific islander is gonna be in the tabloids" sorta way.
(that was my attempt of bringing the thread back in)

Posted by: gp at May 29, 2009 12:09 AM

Kate is not a cunt, Slim, you big sexist meanie.

She's a raging thundercunt. There's a difference.

It's all a carefully planned ploy masterminded by her hair. They do those interviews and she could be saying that she locks the kids in the attic and throws bread crusts under the door. I wouldn't notice. That hair has me hypnotized.

Posted by: Porkchop at May 29, 2009 12:30 AM

How great would it be if, one day while they're sitting on that love seat, he just backhands the shit out of her?

I've caught the show in passing a couple of times over the years, and what always struck me was how agressive she was with him. Why on earth would anyone marry such a woman?

Posted by: Carolina Girl at May 29, 2009 10:32 AM

Carolina Girl: Why on earth would anyone marry such a woman?

Jon said it was because she was cute, blonde, and would take care of him. "She had this figure and this long blonde hair, but now..." (Jon shakes his head in disappointment and then shoots an "oops" smile at Kate, who is sitting next to him and smiling daggers back directly at him.)

I hope the kids will be okay. I feel for the big sisters.

Posted by: Sweetie Dahling at May 29, 2009 11:48 AM

I've probably seen every single episode of this show. I had to quit watching last season when I got sick of the product placement in every scene and the ridiculous freebies these people get. Then I decided to learn more about Jon and Kate and their family. The true story behind these money grubbers is even more disturbing than the show.

Posted by: Kolby at May 29, 2009 11:58 AM

Why on earth would anyone marry such a woman?

My cousin and her husband are in the same situation as these pathetic people and from what I've seen of them I might have an answer. She started off as this cute, sexy, happy party time kind of gal, which attracted him in the first place. She was flirty and slightly slutty, but in a Madonna/whore sort of way. He was a quiet guy, a bit of a nerd really, who was drawn to her outgoing ways and excitability. But then they got married and she immediately started on the baby hungry path which involved her tearing him down to where he was convinced that his only worth would ever be through being a father and husband, but her controlling nature made it so he could never live up to her particular standards. He was continually emasculated and scorned for any life and sense of self he had left in him. But eventually he refound himself and again wanted the life he was stripped of from the moment he met his succubus.

I don't watch this show, and of course I don't know Jon and Kate personally, but from what I've heard I see some parallels between them and the front row seat I've had of my cousin's marriage disaster. The only difference is that my cousin only has two kids, and she eventually ended up cheating on him. Cause you know, once she had stripped him of his manhood she needed to go out and find herself a "real man".

Posted by: katy at May 29, 2009 12:57 PM

Really, the worst type of abusive mother, huh? Well, when you've spent 16 hours learning to tell the difference between belt marks, cord marks, and cane marks on a child the age of five, examined photos of starved children, learned to tell the difference between slipshod housekeeping and environmental negligence, examined handprints LEFT ON FUCKING INFANTS, maybe, just FUCKING MAYBE, you might get why a mom who puts food on the damn table, a roof over their heads and smiles with them once in a while, even if she's not puppies and sunshine all the damn time, even if she admits she's a bitch, maybe you might fucking get why the CPS of their state listened to the complaints, investigated and did nothing. Just because they didn't make their choices without your express fucking approval, ASSHOLE, doesn't make them abusive. Just because you didn't do it doesn't make it wrong.

Jesus H. Fuck.

Posted by: TWoP Fan at May 29, 2009 3:22 PM

And I don't even like these goddamn people!!! FUCK!!! It's not like we're friends, I think she's a fucking bitch, but damn, aren't we all? Jesus, I never want to see these fucking people again and I can't go in the grocery store without seeing them EVERYWHERE. FUUUCK. I need a Xanax.

Posted by: TWoP Fan at May 29, 2009 3:25 PM

"Some Dads are content to argue spitefully that they’d love to switch places with their wives and be the primary caregiver, but other fathers who share — or even do the majority of the parenting — realize that, no matter how much they love their children, being responsible for keeping them fed, well-slept, properly bathed, preoccupied most of the day is more daunting than almost any 9-5 job, even if it more rewarding."
I love you so much for saying this.

Posted by: AdaHaze at May 29, 2009 3:27 PM

TwoP Fan, are you serious?? What is your deal? Are you Kate in disguise or something? I can't imagine an impartial observer getting that freaking worked up to defend a reality show Mom who, if not the raging c*nt some people say she is, is certainly unpleasant and has made questionable parenting choices? I get that you want to express an opposing opinion to most of us, but calm the hell down.

Posted by: b at May 29, 2009 3:30 PM

Did you see the posts above me?! I got worked up?

Fuck this noise, I give up, you're right, she's all sorts of evil, let the stoning commence. Hell, she's the anti-christ, took over from Zac Effron. What a horrible fucking person, she deserves what she gets. She is so ungrateful and mean and selfish, she lied, cheated and manipulated. and just such a...such a bitch. And that hair! My god.

Still like the kids though. That Aiden, the one with the glasses? I am a sucker for little kids in glasses.

Posted by: TWoP Fan at May 29, 2009 4:08 PM

I listened to two dipshits talk about this show at lunch today (no choice, it's a communal lunch area, I was in the middle of eating when one of them sat down). I've never seen it, don't want to see it. I can't imagine anything more boring than watching people's humdrum domestic shit. Or their really very commonplace domestic problems. And why are we encouraging people to have litters of children, again?

I ask the same thing I asked the regular viewers I had to listen to today: My sister has 7 kids (all different ages), where's her show? And her husband is in Iraq for a year, not sitting around like a dope. And she doesn't have any nannies.

Jon and Kate and their audience can go to hell.

Finally: Having 8 kids plus having a camera crew following you around all the time can place strain on a marriage?The hell you say. Next you'll tell me that appearing on a TV dating show probably won't result in a stable, healthy relationship. That's just crazy talk.

Posted by: Slash at May 29, 2009 4:11 PM

When the little girl hugged Jon and said, "Don't go away again, Daddy" I just lost it. Nothing about this is fair for these kids, I don't care HOW much it will supposedly "secure their future" as Kate says.

CNN is reporting that they're being investigated for violating child labor laws.

Posted by: superEdna at May 30, 2009 1:18 AM

I guess I'm in the minority here, but (as someone who admittedly has never actually seen the show, just The Soup clips and a few interviews on Dr. Phil or something) I find that pitiful ass husband a LOT more annoying than Kate.

It's clear that she has some sort of psychlogical disorder, but I would think that is perhaps partly a function of the inevitable chaos of having 6 kids the same age (I have a six-month old, and I love my little boo-boo-bear to pieces but sometimes he can drive me insane!). I couldn't imagine having to deal with 6 crying babies or 6 tantrum-throwing two-year olds at the same time. And the lady definitely seems like a control-freak, so she may not be pawning off her motherly duties to the help, like many have suggested.

I dunno...I just hate that formidable women always get demonized, like how dare a woman, especially a mom, not be all Kool-Aid smiles and fresh-baked cookies? Everytime I've ever seen this Kate woman, she has seemed like a smart and organized person, who is extremely willful. And her husband just sits there like a bump on a log, with a vacant expression on his face. Irritating.

Finally, I would like to agree with TwoP, in that my brother is a social worker in Philadelphia, and that show really does not even begin to approximate the worst kind of child abuse. Not to mention the fact that both she and her idiot husband are exploiting those kids, so you can't just pin it all on Kate.

P.S. I hate the Duggars. Popping out kid after kid for 25 years straight is just GROSS to me!

Posted by: Lisa at May 30, 2009 3:49 AM

"P.S. I hate the Duggars. Popping out kid after kid for 25 years straight is just GROSS to me!"

Posted by: Lisa at May 30, 2009 3:49 AM

There's nothing gross about making lots of babies. It's a natural process. It's what nature intends you to do. It's why men produce lots of sperm and women have lots of eggs. It's what survival of a species and surival of the fittest is all about. Many animals produce more than one offspring at the same time. With humans it's mostly one at a time but it's no different than other animals reproducing.

Nowadays humans are so good at survival we don't need to reproduce so regularly (though we still need to reproduce enough to keep a young, healthy working population). In fact we're so bloody good we can afford not to have babies or to have abortions regularly and there wouldn't be any threat to the species. On the contrary we're overpopulating the world and killing off other species. But before condoms, contraception methods, all kinds of family planning, easy and safe access to abortion and good social welfare systems, having anything between six and twelve kids was not a big deal. In fact it provided the parents with someone to take care of them when they get older and it was also a way of expanding the family and the family business. It's not only survival of the human species but survival of that particular family (boys generally preferred because they can work on the family farm or whatever business it is while girls will marry off, get another surname and become part of another family. Sorry. That's a paternalistic society for you). In many third world countries families still work in this way.

Think about it this way. Before you would directly take care of your parents when they get old. Now you pay taxes to the government and the government takes care of them and all the other elderly (homes, pensions, healthcare etc).

So by having lots of kids, two parents are only answering the call of nature and of survival. Every creature is brought into this world to reproduce its species. It's only humans which have all kinds of pursuits and other things to put their minds on. The idea of two parents, one child(or two: a boy and a girl) and a dog is a very modern thing. Before you'd have kids. Lots of them. You know some will die at birth and some will die young so it's important to have others to compensate. Obviously we're also talking about a time when most women were full time mums or only worked on the farm with their husband where they could keep an eye on the children and take them with them.

My point is I don't see why so many people seem to hate certain parents simply for having lots of kids. Society favours the individual nowadays and it's perfectly cool to live alone in an empty house as long as you've got a good career and hobbies to keep you company. But some people still yearn for that family unit feeling more than the individual and want to live in a large house full of life, noise and children who will grow up, take different directions in life and expand that family unit. Personally, I'm very individualistic. I'm happilly single and don't like the idea of ever having children at all. I'm even very anti fucking social. I never thought a day would come when I defend family values but hating people for having a bunch of kids is ridiculous to the extreme. That's a lifestyle choice, as is mine and yours.

Posted by: barf at May 30, 2009 11:37 AM

First of all...."get his strange on his hang-low"?
Oh what the F!! Where do you learn your language!
As for Jon and Kate...sad and yes they should end the show. Squirrel away more money, move back to a smaller house, get over yourselves and go back to your jobs. Kate is supposedly a nurse, they make very good money and with a nest egg already in place they could get by very nicely, but do they want to? Jon works in IT,they make very good money as well. Make it work, the media will eventually go away because you'll just be a family with 8 kids! The Irish do it all the time!
So do a lot of other people.
I also think the Duggars are freaky! Just wait, their scandel is coming!!!

Posted by: LITTLEFREAK at May 30, 2009 11:55 AM

As for the show, I can understand why people watch it. Voyeurism is addictive. Watching a train wreck which you're not a part of can be strangely alluring. Voyurism with the person being watched giving you permission to do so and while sitting comfortably on a sofa at home is a no brainer. Stations will keep producing this stuff because people will keep watching it, and it's also easy cheap to produce.

Do I think the kids are being exploited? of course. I think the parents are exploiting themselves! It's all well and good to do a cute show when things are plain sailing but to keep doing it when your life is falling apart and at the expense of happiness is dumb. I can't talk on the bitchiness or otherwise of the parents because I've never seen the show but growing up in front of a camera must be tough. Breaking up a marriage in front of a camera must be even more tough.

While reading about this show I couldn't help thinking back to the link provided in pajiba love a few days ago about children stars whose life were fucked up by their parents (example the child star of Home Improvements). They fucked their children's lives up by being too greedy for the money their children were making. I think these parents are being too greedy too. After four seasons, a book deal and fame I'm sure they have enough money to bring up their eight children and live comfortably. Continuing the show would be flogging a dead horse and their children will curse them for it one day. In my opinion they should stop the show and focus on being a normal family.

I hope the children will find a lot of money saved in the bank for them at least when they grow up.

Posted by: barf at May 30, 2009 12:09 PM

I hope the children will find a lot of money saved in the bank for them at least when they grow up.

Posted by: barf at May 30, 2009 12:09 PM

-------------------------------------------------


I wouldn't count on it.

Not trying to be an asshole here but I honestly believe the future Gosselin adults won't even have enough to pay for basic therapy for the MANY MANY MANY...MANY, issues they'll be suffering.
Keeping appearances and "lifestyles" carries a LOT of overhead, and all they have is the show. Kate's money from books/endorsements/speaking is exactly that: KATE'S, not the kids.

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at May 30, 2009 7:50 PM

I've been standing in the checkout lines for a few weeks now, looking at the tabs and wonderring "Who the fuck are Jon and Kate and why should I give a fuck?"

Then I read this review, and now I have to ask: FOUR YEARS? This fucking thing has been on for FOUR YEARS and I've never heard of ...

Oh, wait:

"TLC"

Ah, that 'splains it. 299,999,990 other Americans don't watch this and don't give a fuck either.

Posted by: , (the commenter formerly known as bucdaddy) at May 30, 2009 11:19 PM

TLC= "Too Little Contraception"
They went from being an inocuous basic cable channel about weddings, lamaze, and medical mysteries to The Flagship for SuperBreeders. You don't have to look any futher than the fact that they are hyping the hell out of the situation with MARATHONS and PREMIERE advertising to see they're just getting their pound of flesh back for supporting these fools for five years. Who expect new everything, matching sets of six and two. This is not a wholesome thing for any of us to participate in underwriting.

The worst episode I saw was when a VOLUNTEER watched their kids so they could have date night. The babies were about a year or so I guess. One old lady watched all eight of their spawn and got them to sleep. That's a Toddler Miracle. All Kate had to say afterward was being pissed that the babysitter didn't also DUST THE HOUSE. Running her hands over shelves and stuff complaining.

More recent episodes seemed to be basically the entire clan going here and there for free getting free stuff, did I mention for free? Cutting in line at Disneyland, getting ferried around the zoo. We get it, your uterus plus modern medicine is a fucking Super Hero. Then Kate expressing fake gratitude that her kids don't have cancer like those St. Judes kids, or that they have to god forbid use their own feet to get around the zoo.

Bleh, bleh, bleh. Take it off the air. The woman is nothing but a Womb and a Haircut with 9 Children, and one of them hangs out in bars.

Posted by: Stacy D at May 31, 2009 11:15 AM

It might be wrong but I'm starting to hate this woman without ever even seeing her. What kind of woman expects a volunteer baby sitter of eight to dust the house too?

I guess the husband does not fare much better. Whether it's because his wife has sapped all life out of him or it's something of his own making or just a victim of circumstance I don't know but overall the woman sounds worse.

Posted by: barf at May 31, 2009 1:02 PM

Out of curiosity I just read the Duggars and Gosselins articles on wikipedia and I have to say the Duggars sound much more barmy than the Gosselins. What's with their weird beliefs, the home education system, the buddy system, the children can't watch much T.V or use the internet system and the worst one, they cannot date, they can only court (ask permission from the prospective partner's father to date) and CANNOT KISS BEFORE MARRIED! AAAAAH!

Besides isn't it a bit hypocritical believeing in not watching television and producing a show for the bloody television?

And what's with the names all starting with the same letter? My mum had that bright idea. We hate it and we are only three. Everytime we receive a letter or package and the sender wouldn't have written the whole name but just intitials we never know who the fuck it's really addressed to and it's very irritating. Not that that's the biggest problem the Duggars have. I bet they're allowed no privacy whatsoever anyway.

Posted by: barf at May 31, 2009 3:14 PM

"...and CANNOT KISS BEFORE MARRIED! AAAAAH!.."


-----------------------------------------------

WHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!?!?!?

Mrs. Slim had to go through four elimination challenges against professionals which included the full range of positions plus oral and anal....BEFORE we even dated.

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at May 31, 2009 3:46 PM

As a woman the word "cunt" is deeply offensive, and I don't like it to be used liberally. That said, I can not think of a better example of a cunt than Kate. The way she talks to her husband(regardless of whether he deserves it or not) is so demeaning and cruel.

This show needs to be off the air. I really don't understand why people watch it. If you have kids, why would you want to watch other people's kids screaming and crying? Don't you have enough of that shit in your own house?

Posted by: coco at May 31, 2009 5:29 PM

I keep coming back to this post because I find this show so disturbing! I've finally seen an episode (season 5: episode 1) and I want to make a few comments:

1) That Kate woman is an idiot! When they were talking about the problems the couple are having at one point Jon talked against the whole popularity thing. Kate said stopping the show "is not going to happen!" as if Jon wanting the show to stop was a bad thing. Kate has lost perspective of what a real couple and real family should be like. Also, Jon needs a job to be more like a normal man. The couple need to stop the show and communicate more, and go for therapy.

2) The novelty of the show quickly wears off. Ok, she's raising eight kids, but so fucking what? I'm sure it's hell for the first few years when they wake you up crying all at the same time and when they want to be breast fed but when they know how to take care of themselves a little bit it's not that different from what other people do. I know families who adopt kids together with their own kids and have eight children and they raise them without that much fuss. My mum always used to say that if she had to feed more mouths and clothe more kids it wouldn't be that much different from doing it for three. Yes, it's more expensive and a bit of a headache but it's not the end of the world. The show I watched focused on organising a birthday party. Many parents organise bigger parties for their kids and prepare stuff for much more kids than she had at that party. Although I understand that for the modern very small family seeing a family that big is a novelty but really, it's not such a big deal.

3) Despite not really liking the show I don't think the children are being affected that much. From what I saw they look pretty normal and I think they are oblivious to what is actually happening. I don't think that they are fully concious that their life is literally a though they would be if they had to go through puberty in front of the cameras. God, that would be painful.

4) Can anyone explain to me what the job of paparazzi is? The couple spend quite a chunk of the show talking about them. Why do they follow the family everywhere and camp outside their house. I know they want to be there when a scandal happens (I use the word scandal loosely here. Anything from wearing an outdated dress to kate talking to a male character can be a scandal for the tabloids). But do tabloids pay paparazzi to constantly take photos of every move these people make in hope of finding something juicy?? And although I know photos of people can be taken in public places, can't they be sued for stalking and invasion of privacy? Isn't there anything that can stop these people?

Anyway, these are my first views. The only positive I found is that the children don't seem so badly affected (and that they are cute). The rest is negative. I'm sure I could find more to say but for now this will suffice.

Posted by: barf at May 31, 2009 7:51 PM

About the Duggars - and this was noted many times in the comments for the review of their show - yes, they are fucking weird. They are weird, and churchy, and extremely conservative, and anti-evolution, and they think Earth is only like 3,000 years old or something. I am an extremely liberal, pro-choice, agnostic, feminist Canadian and probably couldn't be more different from them if I tried. BUT - They are so fucking nice. They are kind to each other and to everyone around them. I bet if any one of us showed up half-naked and sexed-out on their doorstep after having been on an all-night drunken bender, they would bring us in and feed us and give us a place to sleep. Seriously. And the parents seem to actually still be in love with each other, and the kids seem like good hard-working people too. That's why the show is nice to watch. Jon and Kate + 8 is a different beast entirely, one that tried to pass itself off as a show about a simple Christian family full of love, but has turned out to be some scary sort of mean-spirited, money-grubbing, scandalous clusterfuck. I guess that's all to say why I'm still watching 18 Kids and Counting and not J+K.

Posted by: b at June 1, 2009 10:31 AM





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