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"Game Of Thrones" - "You Win Or You Die"

By TK | Posted Under TV Reviews | Comments (55)



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“You Win Or You Die,” the seventh episode of HBO’s “Game Of Thrones,” sees the consequences of this “game” continue to reach their bloody fruition. If there’s a theme for this week, betrayal is certainly one of the top contenders, as we begin to learn that not only enemies coming at our beloved characters from all sides, but also that no one can truly be trusted. Of course, the episode suffered from one major piece — no Tyrion, which was tough to bear. The Imp has become such a powerful and anticipated player that his omission from any episode is glaring. But there was enough other poisonous (both literal and figurative) plotting to get our blood up.

It wasn’t all betrayal and distrust, though. On the Wall, Jon Snow’s life is picking up, though not always for the better. The appearance of the riderless horse of Benjen Stark bodes ill for the future, to be certain. Samwell Tarly continues to be almost perfectly portrayed by John Bradley, which almost makes up for the inconsistent performance of Kit Harrington’s Snow. Part of it may well be the writing, and part of it is Harrington, who has an unfortunate tendency to play Jon as less frustrated, inexperienced and impatient, and more as childish and churlish. Yet the moment where the roles are given out to the new recruits was still effective, and helped by the well-intentioned interjections of Sam and Pip.

But of course, the most critical part of the episode, if not the series itself, is the death of King Robert of Baratheon. Once again, there is a scene between Ned and Robert, and once again it’s beautifully done. Robert’s regret at the man he’s become, and his utter faith in Ned, are on full display as he lies in bed at death’s door. There’s a sense of poignancy to his realization that Ned is the only man he can trust to run the kingdom and help raise his son — and that by doing so, he will make Ned’s life a living hell. Yet it’s his final noble act after a life of brash, ignoble decisions. Ned, ever the loyal servant and devoted friend, accepts the charge, but fails to heed the warning signs. Ned breaks my heart a little bit every week — an honorable man surrounded by devious schemers, who refuses to understand that honor will only do so much, and this his trust is frequently misplaced. And of course it is proven so — he trusts Cersei to heed his warnings, and he trusts Littlefinger to back him up as he confronts her. All of which makes Cersei’s power play and Littlefinger’s betrayal so brutally frustrating, as Ned is taken prisoner in the chamber of the Iron Throne.

This entire sequence of events was masterfully done, from Cersei’s cold fury and disdain for Ned, to Littelfinger’s obsequious promises and treacherous acts, to Ned’s failure to heed the signs, even though they came from almost everyone — Robert, Renly, even Littlefinger himself all tried, in one way or another, to show Ned that his actions were destined for failure. Cersei has finally begun to grow on me, and she’s moved from petulant bitchiness to lofty, deadly lioness — however warped and psychotic Cersei is, her actions and her vicious plays are all in the interest of protecting herself and her family. Littlefinger’s wicked and completely amoral deviousness were on full display — although the scene in his brothel was an odd one. I’m certainly not opposed to female nudity, yet his narration against the backdrop of two whores pleasuring each other was one of the rare moments when the show felt like it stumbled. It was out of sync and felt a bit too forced. I appreciate the Greek chorus-like aspect of Rose — she exists purely to create expository opportunities, and I like that — but it was one of the first times that a scene felt a little too tawdry.

Yet despite Cersei and Littlefinger’s manuvering, the throne is far from secure, for in Vaes Dothrak, the plan put into effect by Robert before his death backfires disasterously. Instead of an assassin taking the life of Daenerys, the assassin is caught and Drogo is galvanized to take his horsemen and cross the sea. Drogo’s intentions are based out of love, but his role in the game promises to be one of death and destruction, as he vows to tear through the Seven Kingdoms in for his bride and his son, the Stallion That Mounts The World. His proclamations among his men, witnessed by Daenerys and Mormont and the pathetic would-be assassin, was surprisingly well-done. Drogo has had little to do in the show, before last week’s “crowning” of Viserys. But here he is shown to be a dark force of nature, a terrible and fearsome warlord:

“I will give him the Seven Kingdoms… I will take my Khalasar west to where the world ends, and ride the wooden horses across the black salt water, as no Khal has done before. I will kill the men in iron suits, and tear down their stone houses. I will rape their women, take their children as slaves, and bring their broken gods back to Vaes Dothrak.”

It would appear that winter isn’t all that’s coming.









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Comments

"I will give him the Seven Kingdoms…"

Talk about an inspiring pep talk. Let the carnage commence!

Posted by: The Wanderer at May 31, 2011 11:38 AM

HATED the scene in the brothel. I get that Ros is our Sexposition Fairy, but that scene was ridiculous. I don't have a problem with good lesbian porn, but this was so not the place for it. I can honestly say I didn't pay attention to a damned word Littlefinger was saying; if the point of Ros is to allow us to learn backstory, then don't be that distracting. It's the first sex scene where I actually said, "Well, HBO has decided it needs to stick to its M.O., doesn't it?" Hated it. Worst scene in the series to date.

However. The rest of this episode was pretty awesome. I loved the boys saying their vows at the heart tree, and the fact that, Gods forbid, Ghost actually got to do what he was written to do. Got some really lovely play off each of the characters this week. Special nod to Renly for being so eager to fill the shoes he's been led to believe he should. His conversation with Ned was awesome.

Posted by: KatSings at May 31, 2011 11:38 AM

Rose is a hottie but I actually fast-forwarded through some of that scene, because it was so goddamn irritating. Almost every scene that has been invented for the show has been at best boring and unnecessary; at worst (particularly a lot of the scenes with Jaime) they actively work against the story. I don't want to say too much here, but the way Martin developed Jaime's character in the books was masterful. The show is, to put it bluntly, screwing it up BIG time.

Posted by: Todd at May 31, 2011 11:45 AM

The opening scene, between Tywin and Jaime, was also well-done, I thought, especially the fact that Tywin was dressing a stag during the conversation.
Nice symbolism...
And I didn't mind the brothel scene with Ros as much as others appear to, I guess.

Posted by: Rykker at May 31, 2011 11:47 AM

I knew I didn't like Littlefinger!

Loving this series so much. I did miss Tyrion though.

Posted by: Carrie at May 31, 2011 11:49 AM

Been waiting 2 weeks to talk about this episode. And with 3 to go, I do wonder how they're going to fit the last major events that are supposed to happen. I hope HBO goes the full 13 episodes route from here on with GoT as the next few books are chock full of nuts that can't fit in 10 episodes.

You're not the only one who had issues with Littlefinger's scene, but I'll disagree with that in this regard: it's necessary to portray the dichotomy of Petyr Baelish. This is a man who is cold and ruthless and calculating. How cold is he? He has 2 beautiful, naked women completely desperate to do whatever it takes to please him and he sees them as nothing more than potential monetary gain.

And it was great to see Charles Dance finally appear as Tywin Lannister. I loved how cowed Nikolaj Coster-Waldau portrays Jamie in that one scene. BTW, ironic that he's butchering and cleaning a dead deer?

Posted by: Fredo at May 31, 2011 11:50 AM

The Rose scene aside, I totally disagree with you, Todd. I think a lot of the scenes invented for the show have worked really well and have been quite good. The Tywin/Jamie scene this week and the Robert/Cersei scene of a few episodes ago leap to mind. I feel like the show is sticking pretty true to the Jamie character.

Posted by: Forbiddendonut at May 31, 2011 11:50 AM

Oh, and I'll definitely be reading the books once this series is finished.

Posted by: Carrie at May 31, 2011 11:51 AM

Would that I could piss on Littlefinger's grave. Whore-mongering cooze-hound! Be done with ye!

Having not read the books (yet), and with far too much time on my hands, I find watching the episodes twice a necessity in order to fully understand everything that is going on. Try as I might, I couldn't figure out why Benjen was gone in the first place -- did I miss him saying "Bye y'all, I'ma go do my thing downstairs and see ya laterz!" in a previous episode, or was he...abducted? The future is looking terribly bleak for the few remaining men of the Stark household, which in turn makes me fear for the fate of the ladies (well, not Cat or Sansa, just Aria, really).

I also went back and watched the first episode (for the first time since the last three times I watched it at the beginning of the season), this time having a much greater understanding and appreciation for wtf was goin on back then. The one thing I am disappointed with (though I reckon I shouldn't be due to the bible's worth of storyline they had to fill in), is the absence of the White Walkers (other than in mention) since the first episode. I know they can't be too brazen w it, but for a completely unexplained massacre to open the series, just to be forgotten about for six episodes makes it feel like a cop out if
OUTCOME UNKNOWN BUT IMPLIED so POTENTIAL SPOILER!

all of a sudden the White Walkers are responsible for Benjen's death (or loss of a hand).

Also, is Jamie aware of his Paternal rights to Cersei's children? And/or more than just a little peeved at his overall lack of being a Dad/reason why Joffery is such an unbearable mutant?

The lady has her questions!

Posted by: beet salad at May 31, 2011 11:56 AM

It's annoying to me that the Dothraki bits are poorly done. I get it, they're savages. It's like watching bad Star Trek. I half-expect a shite monster suit to show up soon.

Posted by: Brenton at May 31, 2011 11:56 AM

Fredo, I'm personally not of the opinion that the scene accomplished the mission you set forth for it. Nor do I believe for half a second that the intended goal of that scene was just to convey another side of Petyr Baelish. There are a lot of ways to go about showing the guy is a manipulative, cold, calculating bastard (which, by the way, is not nearly so obvious at this point in the books as it is being made in the series, imo). That scene was done that way for the same reason HBO throws sex into most of their programming. I have no issue with sex scenes, explicit or otherwise, if they serve the narrative. This distracted from it. It took me completely out of the story and I hate that feeling.

Many of the other added scenes have been awesome, though. This one just, pardon the pun, rubbed me the wrong way.

Posted by: KatSings at May 31, 2011 11:56 AM

So, was Mormont part of the assassination plan and changed his mind at the last minute? Right before that scene, he received a pardon. Was that his payoff? I never read the books, and am enjoying the story so far, but that was a little confusing.
Also, Charles Dance could read a newspaper, and I would pay to listen.

Posted by: dorquemada at May 31, 2011 11:57 AM

Hated the portrayal of Tywin. HATED.

That was not the man from the books in any sense at all.

Posted by: Seany D at May 31, 2011 12:08 PM

beet salad, a few episodes back (the one where Tyrion is still at the Wall), Benjen says goodbye to Jon and says he'll be gone for a month or so. He says that it's part of his job.

KatSlings, and I wouldn't disagree with you with how it pulls you out of the moment. I think that it is very on-the-nose (and really so much of the Ros scenes have been so off-putting). Whether the scenes with Tyrion, Theon or the mention she gets from Jon, it appears as if Ros' role is to help the creators reveal facts about the main characters that appear in other scenes that won't get filmed.

I do wonder if they'll do anything with Ros. I hope it's not to make her Shae.

Aside, any idea if Ser Brynden the Blackfish is ever going to be in this series?

Posted by: Fredo at May 31, 2011 12:10 PM

I get that HBO is trying cover their ass, by filling all exposition scenes with naked girls, so the fucking monkeys in the audience don't get bored, but COME ON! There's no need to go full Showtime on us, HBO. The lesbian sex scene was RIDICULOUS. For fuck's sake, we have a lot of detail to fit into a short amount of screen time, and they wast our time with this!? Isn't this the internet age? Isn't porn available at all times from our fucking smart phones? There is no fucking need to jam it into my Game Of Thrones. BAD HBO.

Posted by: John G. at May 31, 2011 12:12 PM

I feel like the show is sticking pretty true to the Jamie character.

I can't agree. I hope I can explain this without spoiling anything, but one of the things about Jaime is that he truly does NOT give a fuck what people think of him. He has made a point of not talking about certain things with people outside his family, and pretty much the entire realm despises him because of it. He doesn't care. But here we have Tywin telling him he needs to stop worrying about what people think of him and just do his duty. The show is staying somewhat true to his inner character, but is revealing way too much of it, way too fast with these extra scenes.

Posted by: Todd at May 31, 2011 12:19 PM

KatSings , I wish I had come up with the term "sexposition fairy". Nicely done.

Fredo , I think you're right. They are going to make Ros into Shae.

Brenton , I disagree that the Dothraki scenes are done poorly. I really liked when Drogo was just looking at the poisoner wine merchant, and you felt how fucked he was in that moment. There are several Dothraki bits in the books that I'm glad they cut out.

beet salad , actually, they are following the books well with respect to the white walkers. They are in the prologue and then not again for much later. They are meant to bookend the entire first story, to let you know that despite the fact that for all this political maneuvering and "game of thrones" there are bigger forces at work on the periphery of the seven kingdoms, supernatural forces. Winter is coming in the north, with all that entails, and there's something else supernatural,that I won't spoil, happening in the south. We're just meant to hint at those things, though for now. Don't worry, you'll see the white walkers again. And the final scene in the book is so awesome, I can't wait to see what they do with it in the show.

Posted by: John G. at May 31, 2011 12:24 PM

I hope I can explain this without spoiling anything, but one of the things about Jaime is that he truly does NOT give a fuck what people think of him.

This is exactly wrong. Jaime Lannister might want to be a "I don't give a shit" badass, but really he cares deeply about what other people think of him: he frequently attempts to make people understand, for example, why he straight-up murdered the previous king, and his relentless study of former knights in the Kingsguard that happens in later books (not really a spoiler, since it's more of a character note and not important to the plot) makes it entirely clear that he really gives a damn about having and leaving a good name that people respect.

Posted by: mightygodking at May 31, 2011 12:29 PM

Todd, I think the show is being kinda straightforward on Jamie's character at this point in the story. He's someone who is rash and who is, for all this talents, insecure about his position in the Kingdoms. He rankles at the Kingslayer name and is interested on improving his position. It's not until much later that he comes to view his life and position in a much different light.

Posted by: Fredo at May 31, 2011 12:32 PM

I thought the brothel scene wasn't very good either but even without the sex distraction, his speech just seemed forced too.

I'm also disappointed in Ned's trust of people. I hope he comes to his senses soon and starts kicking some ass.

I'm a few chapters behind the show in the books and it's an interesting way of reading it. I think they're doing a fantastic job translating it to film. Not everything can be exact when you do something like that but they manage pretty damn well.

Posted by: Paultera at May 31, 2011 12:33 PM

My god some of you people are whiny. GoT is easily one of the best shows available on television. There are going to be deviations from the book, and it isn't possible to have a $100M effects budget in every episode. Just go along for the ride with the rest of us and stop with the fanboy nitpicking.

I liked the "lets teach the whores to mindfuck" scene because it seemed to finally show Littlefinger without his public face on. Apparently he can only be honest with the profesional liars in his employ. It effectively foreshadowed his imminent betrayal of Ned and laid out his ambition and motives.

Posted by: TylerDFC at May 31, 2011 12:42 PM

As someone who hasn't read the books and doesn't know anything other than what's been shown, it seems clear to me that a huge amount of Jamie's character is bound up in resentment and jealousy. He is the best knight in the Kingdom, he is handsome and from a great family, HE IS THE FATHER OF THE KING! And yet...everyone hates him. because no one knows about all his greatness. No one knows why he is a Kingslayer (which, without spoiling others as I unfortunately spoiled myself on this particular fact, can be seen as quite noble), no one knows that Joffrey is his son, and no one knows that he is boffing the Queen.

He seems to me like someone who GREATLY cares what others think about him, but because he can't shout his own greatness from the rooftops, burns a silent rage.

Posted by: Damnyankees at May 31, 2011 12:43 PM

I agree with Todd RE: Jaime. Unfortunately, i think it would be much more difficult to show Jaime's progression in film. In the books, so much of this progression from callous egoist to a more sensitive Jaime is accomplished through a close third person narrative, where we the readers are privy to Jaime's innermost thoughts and feelings, thoughts and feelings he would never say aloud or act upon, at least in the beginning of his arc. The trouble with film is that it requires action sooner, otherwise, we end up with what seem to be a static cast of characters. so, in order to hook an audience not familiar with the series, which let's be honest, they are more concerned with that than the fanboys/girls, they have to show this depth faster.

For the record, i thought the scene with Tywin was masterful. Is it an exact recreation from the book? no. Tywin in the books is outwardly much more reserved, cold. But again, here we can see the actual core of Tywin faster, a ruthless and methodical killer whose only concern is the glory of his house. people are just tools to achieve that, including his children.

All in all, well done.

Posted by: Matty at May 31, 2011 12:45 PM

he frequently attempts to make people understand, for example, why he straight-up murdered the previous king

I remember exactly ONE scene where this happens, and there was ONE other character present. (The name starts with "B," so you know who I mean.)

Posted by: Todd at May 31, 2011 12:48 PM

I agree that scene in the brothel was unnecessary and gratuitous. Also Littlefinger's speech basically deflated what could have been a more powerful ending.

Dance as Tywin was excellent. Boy the casting folks of this show have done a masterful job in their casting decisions haven't they?

I kept yelling at Ned for being such a fool. I kept thinking of the scene from the previous episode where Lysa accuses Bronn of not fighting with honor and Bronn pointing to the guy he just killed and saying, "no but he did."

I can't wait for next week.

Posted by: John W at May 31, 2011 1:08 PM

Hey, can we cry some more about things that aren't exactly like they were in a book? If every adaptation was exactly like the book, then why the fuck watch it?

Posted by: jason at May 31, 2011 1:09 PM

I'm actually mostly OK with the way they're portraying both Jaime and Tywin. Yes, there are deviations, but I think in order to accomplish what they need to in the shorter span, they have to make changes. Also, in the books we only get to hear/see the story from specific viewpoints. Jaime's POV doesn't come up till later, and Tywin's not at all, so in order to round those characters out more, you need to take a few liberties. There is more to each of them than just the perceptions of those around them, so I think on the whole they're doing a pretty bang up job with it. And I dug the symbolism of Tywin dressing a stag.

Also, according to IMDB, Shae is already cast, and is not the same actress as Ros. So we should be spared that. Not to say that she couldn't end up taking over some of the same story bits, but Ros isn't a replacement for Shae, nor is she going to change her name and become her. At least, so sayeth the IMDB, which isn't terribly reliable, but will have to do for now.

Posted by: KatSings at May 31, 2011 1:28 PM

Oh shut up Jason

Posted by: John G. at May 31, 2011 1:35 PM

Fredo, Shae is cast, and it's different from Roz. And no Blackfish. From what I read, the writers thought he didn't do anything in the books that couldn't be done by someone else in the TV series. Kinda bummed about that.

Posted by: space oddity at May 31, 2011 1:46 PM

On the Blackfish...

I remember reading that they decided to cut Brynden Tully, the Blackfish, completely out of this season. Since he doesn't do all that much in the first book, they thought it would just end up being more confusing introducing him here, since the cast is plenty large. They said that they plan to introduce him in the second season.

Posted by: Forbiddendonut at May 31, 2011 2:10 PM

I really haven't seen much of a disconnect at all in either Jamie or Tywin from the books. Will have to see more of Tywin, but I think Jamie is largely consistent. They've added some scene to introduce some themes a bit early, but I really didn't mind them.

If any of the Lannisters has changed from the books, I would say it's been Cersei. And I kind of like the change. She's a bit colder and calmer in the show. In the books she tried to seduce Ned Stark in the godswood for crissakes. Her only weapon in the books was her body and sex and she used to get everything. So far, she's coming across as a bit of a smoother operator. Though to what extent remains to be seen.

Posted by: Forbiddendonut at May 31, 2011 2:24 PM

WHERE is Scully?

Posted by: Rykker at May 31, 2011 2:41 PM

I just wonder why people are complaining about a gorgeous naked redhead

Posted by: Sean at May 31, 2011 2:56 PM

Where are Tywin's mutton chops?

Posted by: Cory at May 31, 2011 2:57 PM

Sean, not complaining about naked Ros, complaining about the scene. She's a beautiful woman, and they've used that particular fact very well in the past. I don't mind her use as the Sexposition Fairy, just found this particular scene distracting rather than engaging. Now, out of context, I will be happy to watch that scene and enjoy the hot chicks. But I didn't like it in the context of the show.

Posted by: KatSings at May 31, 2011 3:05 PM

If you're complaining about missing mutton chops, why have you not complained about Syrio having a full head of hair?

Christ, you people are a little too much.

Posted by: Rykker at May 31, 2011 3:06 PM

Loved Dance as Tywin. Nice to see him finally. I thought the scene was very well done, unlike some others with Jaime that fell just slightly off.

If you missed Tyrion like I did, I can't imagine what they'll do with the later books where he isn't in it at all. I suppose they'll condense a lot to make up for that.

The brothel scene was stupid and uncomfortable. Too Skinamax.

Posted by: Protoguy at May 31, 2011 3:09 PM

No, that's not a spoiler. Martin just split book five into two, making five and six out of one (I believe that's the right ones) and didn't include him or Dany. Apparently he's on in full force in A Dance with Dragons.

Posted by: Protoguy at May 31, 2011 3:12 PM

My apologies folks, I’m here now. Please call off the Kingsguard search. (I haven’t been able to see the entire episode yet, so I thought I’d come back later tonight.)

From what I have seen: I get the feeling that HBO has set a minimum requirement for violence and gore and nudity. I’m not opposed to any of these things (in fact, this is why I became an instant fan of the books; they were much more graphic than any other fantasy I have read at that point) but it’s over the top. It started in episode 1 with the obscenely loud BJ slurping and continues up to this episode with Ros. I wish they'd scale this down a bit, but it's HBO. They love the nekkid and gore.

Posted by: Scully at May 31, 2011 3:23 PM

The Littlefinger scene was dumb, but the opening scene was unforgivable. Our first "real" introduction to Tywin in the book informs us that he cares so much about appearances that he indefinitely imprisons (or possibly executes) a man who made a joke about the Lannisters' shit being flecked with gold.

There have been two positive changes in the television version, everything else that has been inane or worse. In the first half of this episode, only one scene was a "real" event from the book.

Posted by: Gitley at May 31, 2011 4:26 PM

Just some more thoughts on that Littlefinger scene: In Defense of a Lesbian Sexposition Scene

Posted by: Fredo at May 31, 2011 5:04 PM

only one scene was a "real" event from the book.

I can't help but read this in a nasally British accent. Tell me sir, do you wear a monocle?

Posted by: Paultera at May 31, 2011 5:26 PM

sorry, Fredo, that's not much of a defense. You're reaching. It possibly was the very excuse the executives used to convince the showrunners, but it doesn't hold. There are a thousand better ways to reveal Littlefinger's true character, but this way was chosen for mindless titillation. Just as Pajiba always chooses the boobiest pictures to head all of their articles. It works. It brings in the dopes, but it's not something that should be defended.

Posted by: John G. at May 31, 2011 5:26 PM

That was an excellent read Fredo, and some solid points. My main problem with his speech was the way it was acted, not what was being said. I may have to watch it again though. I could be missing something.

Posted by: Paultera at May 31, 2011 5:35 PM

i read all the books a while back and my memory isn't the best but i am very pleased with the way they are adapting this book. no one has mentioned that they were unsure they would get a second season so perhaps it explains some of the choices they have made relative to extra scenes and so forth.

i liked the jamie and tywin scene and hated the sexposition fairy one. that was indeed worse than the bj slurping for a previous episode. ugh.

my favorite scene was the one between ned and the dying robert. how ironic to see the honorable ned deceive robert by not quite writing what he said.

i too agree that they need more than ten episodes for future seasons; it was great to see jon again (i'm enamored) and let there never be a season without tyrion!

Posted by: splinter at May 31, 2011 5:45 PM

If you haven't read the books, now is the time to go back to those "pointless" talking scenes of the 1st 3 episodes and understand the back story fully. Most of the "what about"s here aren't there because they weren't addressed in the dialogue. They were; you just didn't think they had to do w/anything or didn't have enough "fireworks" to maintain your attention span. The answers are there. And the elongated scene w/Finger and Ros is where Finger is explaining that he's not a whore; he's been saving himself for the woman he's swore to regain the "love" of: Ned's Wife. Earlier in the series there were off-hand "jovial" comments that Ned makes to his wife, "I think he still loves you." Finger is NOT a whore: he clearly explains that he has been saving himself for her and that would consequently make his lifelong nemesis Ned Stark. That entire scene sets up the betrayal at the end of the episode.

What else should I explain amid this groupthink?

Posted by: Recondite at May 31, 2011 7:47 PM

Recondite, what are you talking about? We know that Littlefinger has had a thing for Katlyn. That's not what's wrong with the scene. The scene is bad, because it tries to augment blanket exposition with nudity and simulated sex. I agree that those clues are dropped throughout the series, along with many others, and that's what gives each new viewing so much joy, the little things you discover anew. We didn't need Littlefinger to stand there and just speak his subtext over a sexy background. In fact, if his POV is never taken in the books, I suspect that's by design. To know his thoughts would be to ruin the point of his character.

Posted by: John G. at May 31, 2011 10:30 PM

John G, I may be reaching. All the same, it's about his natural environment. Littlefinger is all about the brothels.

And while, you're right in that readers never got to see things from his POV, I do think the show's writers can't afford to just have him hang in the periphery without giving the audience some bit of knowledge about him.

I do wonder if the entire issue is the two girls going at it -- not anything he says in that speech.

Posted by: Fredo at June 1, 2011 12:59 AM

The scene with Littlefinger and Ros was fine aside from it being too long. The problem I saw with it is how much he revealed to a whore who he hardly knew. Littlefinger seems far too cautious a man to do something like that. But as someone pointed out he is a man of a brothel and they showed his sordid affairs just like they made mention of them in a another scene where he talked with the eunuch. It gives his character more depth and I like the actor (from The Wire yeah!) so I found it entertaining.

I never read the books but am immensely enjoying this series. A lot of people will gripe here and there like they did with Peter Jacksons LoTR. But as a stand alone work the series is well executed and every damn ending of an episode leaves me yearning for more. Once the series ends I am going to have nothing to look forward to on Mondays (I live in Japan where we get them a day late because of the time difference).

Anyhow, I commend HBO for the excellent work. And for all you whiners why dont you go watch Camelot.

Posted by: Muteki at June 1, 2011 6:52 AM

Fredo, I'm sure for some people out there the gender is an issue, and that's sad. I think for people here it was more about the detraction from story many of us felt. I don't personally care what the genders were - it felt wrong. For me. You obviously saw a lot of other things there that I did not personally agree with, and I'm sure there are a bunch of other people out there who would agree with your assessment. I'm just not one of them.

Also, I read your blog and really have to wonder if we read the same books as regards Petyr and Cat. I think it's fairly obvious, especially in the end of Storm of Swords, that Cat is NOT just a ladder for him to climb. If that were the case, substitutions could be made. Now, I haven't finished Feast for Crows, so maybe something else happens that will change that. But everything I've read about them thus far has made Cat, not her house or her position, the important part. I can't explain what I mean in more detail without being spoilerific, but I assume you know what I'm talking about.

Posted by: KatSings at June 1, 2011 9:10 AM

Dear HBO,
As much as I like lesbians, that scene was just grating. I have no idea what Littlefinger said because I usually watch GoT with my dad, and accordingly spent the scene trying not to self immolate out of awkwardness.

Sincerely,
A reasonable audience member who would really like to be able to watch your shows with other people.

P.S. I thoroughly enjoyed the rest of the episode.

Posted by: Delilah at June 1, 2011 11:07 AM

I guess I'm supposed to hate Littlefinger (and maybe I will later -- I haven't read the books), but I can't. He's so smart and clever, and he makes a wonderful foil for Ned, who is so honorable but -- let's face it -- not too bright. Littlefinger actually says something to that effect in an earlier episode, right after Ned almost strangles him. And he's right. I know Ned hasn't been in the king's court long, but many -- including Littlefinger -- have tried to educate him, but the man just won't learn. Let's just hope that the King's brother (the older one) gets the message that he's actually next in line to the throne and saves Ned and the rest of the noble Starks from the scheming Lannisters.

I love this show.

Posted by: jimbob at June 1, 2011 2:02 PM

TK made it clear in one of the earlier GoT reviews that these reviews (and comments) were to be about the show and not a space to nitpick about the differences between the show and the books. But great work guys on spoiling for people only interested in watching the series. Just can't refrain from proving you know more about the books than someone else does, hm?

Posted by: Lena at June 2, 2011 2:47 AM

I dunno, it's more of a comparison in my opinion, rather than a critique about the differences. It's nearly impossible for someone who has read the book to wonder where a new character came from or why they did something this way or that. Overall I think people have been pretty good about how they express this.

There is a lot to discuss about the differences without it being nit-picking. I think the only real visceral critiques have been about the awful sex scenes added for pure titilation. I didn't enjoy watching it with my 19 year old daughter or my 70 year old parents.

Posted by: Protoguy at June 2, 2011 5:09 AM

URGH!!!!! That beginning scene with Ros drove me crazy, as it seems to have many others as well. Benig a bisexual myself I feel insulted with a couple of things which are herein listed below;

- There is no possible way that a man can 'teach' women how to pleasure one another when it takes a rare man to even pleasure one women. Girl+Girl sexual intimacy is a lot different than what we see here and in specialist pornography. This scene took it way too far - trust me, hardly any of the things they did to each other looks even remotely arousing to do with another woman.

Goddammit 'GoT', please stop trying to turn on pathetic boys with every opportunity you get - internet pornography is there for a reason. This show is no place for it and it makes it too degrading for me.

I have given up watching GoT entirely because of that scene with Ros. Thanks HBO, for running out of reasons to flash nude women on the screen.

Posted by: MystyVander at June 5, 2011 9:30 PM