Pajiba

the bailout debacle seems a little dated.

Your grandchildren will be paying for it, so at least this will give them one easy place to reference all the bullshit at once... when it happens to them again in 20 years.

I hate Hannity the most (the guy's just stupid), but Glenn Beck sucks not just because he refuses to accept anything but his own little world, but because he pretends to be witty and insightful while he does it. Glenn Beck isn't a conservative answer to good comedy (Jon Stewart), he's a conservative Bill Maher, beligerent, and in total denial of his own ego. And that's just the first reason I hate him, there are loads more.

Fuck him.

Awww fuck Michael Moore. Am I the only person who thinks he's a fat fucking piece of shit? My friends and I used a poster for Bowling for Columbine as target practice.

You know what I hope happens to that piece of shit. I hope he moves to Canada and gets beat up by a rather small black man with a baseball bat. Why you say? Because he seems to hate America but loves Canada, he is against guns, and he thinks white people are the devil. Seriously, I wouldn't piss on him to save his life if he was on fire.

Go take a flying fuck Moore, your films aren't even a "documentary," its a piece of propaganda that you spit out of thin air. Seen Bowling for Columbine? Watch Bowling for Truth. Everytime he puts out something within days you have people on youtube debunking the whole fucking thing. Just an example, the kids he takes to (what was it Target) to stop them from selling bullets. They didn't even know that's what they were going for, one of them even wanted to join the NRA...after the film came out that was a no.

Besides who the fuck screws around/dicks over Charlton Heston? CHARLTON fucking HESTON. I hope Moore chokes on a chicken wing.

Oh and good luck on your next "best picture," contender.

BTW I'm not giving examples from his other films because, quite simply, I don't give a shit. I saw part of Fahrenheit 9/11 until the people I was with were debunking it as I was watching it. They had me laughing too hard to pay attention to the rest of his "movie."

Deistbrawler:
How about re-reading Dustin's review. He acknowledges all of those things. The point is the airwaves are full of people on the right who do this kind of thing and are taken seriously so why shouldn't those of us on the left have our own little haven of drama and outrage gone wild?

Nobody goes to a Moore documentary to get finely reasoned facts presented in a balanced manner. We go to revel in a two-hour happy fest of watching a rant from our side, that occasionally exposes some truths.

Oh and that whole "he hates America" schtick, criticizing what's wrong with a country is not hate.

TSF >> Your paradox gives me a headache.

Lookit: Sure, Michael Moore’s a little full of himself, a little too arrogant, and plays loose with the facts a bit, but so does Bill O’Reilly, so does Rush Limbaugh, and so does Glen Beck (at least, Moore doesn’t weep for ratings).

What the fuck, are you eight? I hit him because he hit me? You don't change people's minds by playing dirty like the other guys do, you only sway them(and they'll just be swayed back). Set a fucking example and be honest. It may take a bit longer for people to come around, but when they do, they'll stick with you because they weren't swayed by propaganda.

I used to watch Olbermann at my friend's place, and I enjoyed it for about two weeks until I realized I was watching the other side of the O'Reilly coin.

Jesus fucking Christ...

Real Anarchy is merely the absence of coercive authoritarianism, it isn't about "running around the streets looting, raping & pillaging".

Think about that & ask yourself how truly legitimate *any* of the established authorities (both "left" & "right") are.
Face it, most are nothing more than real-life Bill Lumberghs.

I'm sure I remember writing a rant about Moore before somewhere on the site, but I can't for the life of me find it now. Oh well.

The jist: Moore annoys me because his movies aren't aimed at convincing people that his views are right. As a few people here have said, they're aimed at cheering up people who already hold the views he's espousing; getting them riled up or fired up or whatever. While that's nice and all, I think he does it in such an alienating way, and has become so smug and self-satisfied over the years, that he actively pushes middle ground people away from left-wing views and policies, and thus does his causes more harm than good. He might be some use at spreading information about specific causes (as in, raising awareness within left-wing groups of, say the specifics of the health care crisis), but there are less divisive and bitter ways to do that.

As for the idea that the left needs people like Moore and Olbermann, I disagree. I think lowering the level of public discourse to the point that faux outrage and name-calling are the only way that national debates can happen is bad for everyone, but especially bad for everyone who isn't Fox News. Even if the lefties do 'own' the movie theatres, those don't get beamed into everyone's houses night after night after night. In a war of "Who can shout loudest?" Fox will win, and I don't think that's a good outcome for anyone. But I think that Moore or Olbermann winning by cheapening themselves and their arguments isn't much better.

If the left wants to win, it should win by being better, being smarter and by coming up with intelligent, measured refutations of insane arguments. Birthers claiming Obama is a Kenyan? Fine, show them the damn birth cert. People comparing socialised health care to Nazi policies and claiming that Obama will be forcibly euthanising old people? Prove to them that they're wrong. Reason with them. Don't tell them that talking to them is "like arguing with a dining room table" and expect them to be swung to your viewpoint that way.

I was watching Rush Limbaugh. Doesn't he remind you of one of those guys that lies in a tub while other guys pee on him? Can't you see Reagan, Quayle and Bush just standing around pissing on him and his little Piggly Wiggly dick can't get hard. He still can't get hard so they call in Barbara Bush. She takes her pearls off, puts them in his ass. Then she takes off her girdle and squats over his face. Her wrinkled flaccid labia unfolds halfway down to her knees like some ball-less scrotum. She squeezes out a link into his mouth. Finally his dick gets half hard. A little clear bubble forms on the end with a maggot inside. The maggot pops the bubble and runs off and joins a Pro-Life group somewhere. Everyone can see this right. Or at least this is a possibility.

Prove me wrong.

Regardless of where Moore stands on the issues, there is just no excuse for being as full of shit as Moore is. At least he doesn't weep for ratings? Appeals to emotion are Moore's bread and butter.

Curse them all.

@Alon

Well said, Zizek is a fantastic author and your point is well made. I didn't mean to imply that I think our anarchist friends should give up their aspirations and Love The Bomb. I support a heaping amount of skepticism towards all things as our responsibility as citizens.

However, I tend to think of Foucault with regards to ideas like anarchy. Power relations make all of our social structures deeply flawed (especially capitalism), yes, but we can't ever truly escape them. We build them. It's our nature. Hitting the reset button seems like a nice idea, but it won't ever work. 'Controlled' anarchy is just a new system of power. True anarchy would just lead to brutal, primitive systems emerging from the ether.

It is unfortunate that we seem to have lost the ability to, as a group, say 'Fuck it. This isn't working.' But at least we can still have the ability to be informed and proactive enough to try to improve the world around us as much as we can.

Aww, Deistbrawler, don't wish Michael Moore on Canada. What'd we do to deserve that?!

I don't care how much I agree with his anti-gun violence, pro-health care messages, I can not stand that man. He's every bit as grating as his obnoxious extreme-right-wing counterparts. Dustin has a valid point, he is kind of a yin to O'Reilly et al.'s yang, but I'm going to choose to ignore the smug know-it-alls on either side of the debate, thanks.

Want to know something hilarious? The right feels exactly the same way about O'Reilly and Hannity. If I had a quarter for every time I've heard a conservative friend say "our problem is that we fight fair and they fight dirty", I'd be paying far more in taxes than I am now. Here's the problem. Both sides excuse their idiots by pointing to the other side's idiots. Thus, to the right, Moore excuses Coulter, and to the left, Coulter excuses Moore. I'm frankly sick of it. What happened to a little faith in the American people? I personally believe it's possible to have rational and reasonable debates with people who disagree with me. Of course, there are birthers and truthers out there. But there are still plenty of people who are open-minded enough to listen. People like Moore just dumb down our political system even more. I'd get into why I dislike Moore, his value system, or even his hypocritical lifestyle, but this is a movie blog, not a political forum. I just wanted to say that excusing Moore is not helpful.

While I'm not a big fan of Moore for the same reasons as stated above, I do not agree that Olbermann and Maher belong in the same category as him.

Olbermann uses his time to disprove the crazy and the lies from the far right. Show the birthers Obama's birth certificate? That's been done but the Birthers could care less. There's no such thing as a Death Panel in the health care reform bill? The left have proved it and the Conservatives don't care. This is the problem: you cannot reason with them.

This is the problem: you cannot reason with them.

We all know that's just another excuse to ignore the other side, and regardless of what anyone says, Olbermann is still a belligerent idiot, who would never, ever listen to the other side, at any point ever. I say this after spending my past, present, and definite future hating the Bush administration with the fury of 1,000 WMD's.

If you're a fucknuckle, and you say something I agree with, you're still a fucknuckle.

Wait, so this isn't a documentary about a talentless fat slob who makes millions by making movies that decry the country and economic system that allow talentless fat slobs like him to make millions?

Well color me not surprised.

And while conservatives certainly own radio, just because Fox News is leading in most of the ratings departments when compared to the rest doesn't mean that conservatives own cable...

As unsurprised as I am to see the site owner's juvenile defense of Michael Moore, I'm pleasantly surprised to see the hearty criticism of Moore coming from both sides of the political spectrum. I'm glad that intelligent people with reasonable disagreements can identify a hateful, hypocritical propagandist like Moore for what he is. Our civil discourse would be better off without the likes of him, and his brethren on both political extremes. People like Moore, Coulter, O'Reilly, and Olbermann appeal to the lowest common denominator of partisanship in a base attempt to line their pockets - though they pretend to take sides, they don't give a damn about any one of us.

By praising Moore, this site, which pretends to speak for the cultural intelligentsia, embarrasses and degrades itself. Do better.

"Nobody goes to a Moore documentary to get finely reasoned facts presented in a balanced manner. We go to revel in a two-hour happy fest of watching a rant from our side, that occasionally exposes some truths." --> who is this person and why is he SO detached from reality?

It is amusing to me to see the posts about what Moore is doing wrong and how it appeals to the lowest common denominator...So, all of you that complain, tell me what you are doing to inform people?...Ranting on message boards?...Calling everyone else idiots. and deriding everyone as less intelligent and informed as you...What the hell are you doing to raise the consciousness of the people? Anarchists?...aren't those the folks we see at all the WTO events setting the cities on fire? At least Michael Moore is using his pulpit to inform people in a way that is entertaining as well as enlightening... It is so easy to attack the messenger and loose site of the message...By attacking and denigrading people, you will never sway the majority to your side...you make yourself seem small and unappealing...Revolutions start with the frustration and dissatisfaction with how things are...They are fueled with the power of knowledge and the conviction of the heart...At least Michael is presenting the public with knowlege that most don't possess...I aplaud him, and thank him for the service he has done for the people of this county and the world.