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Boldly Go, or Go Not. There Is No Try.

Is Darth Vader Gonna Have to Choke a Bitch? / Seth Freilich

Trade News | December 1, 2008 | Comments (57)


One of the true geekiest of all geek debates involves Star Wars and Star Trek, with the argument focusing on who would prevail in a face-off between the Enterprise D (the one from “Next Generation”) and an Imperial Star Destroyer. There have been many theories, but few have gone to such amusing lengths to visualize their take on the ultimate showdown.









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Comments

I found that way too amusing than I'd care to admit, so for the smoke and mirrors...

In middle school I had a teacher who was obsessed with Jean-Luc Piccard. And like, proud of it. She had a doll of him, which she proudly displayed for the entire class.

So obviously it was kidnapped, a lot. I'm pleading the fifth to my part in any of it, mind you, but it did get so intense that she had to create rules and boundaries for kidnapping the doll. Basically, no permanent damage could be done to it. That did not stop us... er, the class from dressing him up in lady clothes.

Also, there was one plot where someone who had stolen the doll sent a letter from him saying that his new fiance was coming to the class to stay while he got things ready for the wedding. Our teacher said she respected the dollar store Barbie knock-off that played the role of his fiance, but within three days of the dolls being there was wrapped in toilet paper and hung from the ceiling. She said students did it, but I have my suspicions.

Why don't people send their kids to public school more often?

Posted by: Kayanne at December 1, 2008 11:45 AM

That was pretty funny. Although, for some reason, I would have prefered Darth to go up against the Shat for the ultimate throw down.

Posted by: BWeaves at December 1, 2008 11:56 AM

No way a Faggoty Class could go up against a Super Star Destroyer like Vader's flagship.

NO. WAY.

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at December 1, 2008 12:04 PM

Luckily for me my parents had the money to send me to private school starting in the ninth grade. Up until then I went to a public school, to tell you the truth I enjoyed private school more. The teaches focused more on the future of the students and the students place in society. I'm sure that is what drove me to succeed in my business life, what, you thought I was a fucking brick layer or something? You think I could just hang out on the internets all day and magically my bills would get paid? No, I have my own business and it allows me to be a jerk off. I'd take the Imperial Star Destroyer any day over that homo sounding Enterprise.

Posted by: Pookie at December 1, 2008 12:12 PM

*aHEM*

Here is a helpful picture I found on teh Googels to back up Slim's argument. I have to agree. Nerds already know it was the Executor in Star Wars. So tell me how the fuck that puny little shit-stain of an Enterprise is supposed to fight that.

I didn't think so.

Posted by: Snath at December 1, 2008 12:12 PM

Enterprise: PEW PEW PEW

Executor: Shut the fuck up.

Posted by: Snath at December 1, 2008 12:15 PM

I can't believe I'm saying this but, I've got to agree with BSlim. We all know that the Empire has superior ballistic ordinance at their disposal. And when you factor in all the different Tie craft the SSD could launch (Interceptors, Bombers and Fighters) Vader would have handed the Enterprise its ass before Picard ever got the chance to produce that smarmy shit eating grin. Bitch!

Posted by: admin at December 1, 2008 12:16 PM

Hmmm, the picture link didn't work (I may have edited it out...)

http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f252/CanisD/Shipyard/Drawings/SW/SuperSDs.png

Posted by: Snath at December 1, 2008 12:17 PM

Pookie, please, just write an autobiography already. Every little nugget about your life is so fascinating it's like manna from heaven.

Totes not joking,
Your #1 Fan,
XOXOXOXO
K

Posted by: Kayanne at December 1, 2008 12:19 PM

Tell us how you really feel Snatch?

Posted by: Pookie at December 1, 2008 12:19 PM

I hate to say this but I agree with everything that fucking androgynous admin said. Along with the fact that Vader looks like a homo's wet dream walking around in that to die for black outfit which makes him look thin.

Posted by: Pookie at December 1, 2008 12:31 PM

Pookie, I'm still waiting for you to spell my name right.

Honestly though I don't even remember the last time I watched Star Wars. I used to be a HUGE Star Wars nerd. I had the hardcover encyclopedia with all the info from the movies and novels, I played the card game pretty religiously (I was never into Magic, I went the extra nerdy step to Star Wars), and I owned every video game adaptation (Super Empire Strikes Back, bitches!)

So yeah, I know a lot about the Star Wars universe, I guess, but I'm not nearly as rabid as I used to be. I stopped caring so much after The Phantom Menace raped my dreams. The only thing I even own any more that is Star Wars-related is KOTOR.

Posted by: Snath at December 1, 2008 12:39 PM

Seriously, Pookie, you crack me up, no joking.

Snath, I'm always intrigued by the people who actually work out the true to life sizings of these things. Do they have scale models in their basements? Is there a nifty little handbook?

How do you measure fake?

Posted by: Kayanne at December 1, 2008 12:40 PM

Snath KOTOR is good. Very good.

And Pookie I am not androgynous. I am merely a taco wapped, in a burrito and stuffed in a toque.

Posted by: admin at December 1, 2008 12:46 PM

The encounter would play it out like this:

*as the the USS Enterprise and the Executor are prow to prow relative to each other*

On screen Mr. Worf, "This is Jean Luc Pic...BLAMMO!

Starship butt sex.

Posted by: BarbadoSlim at December 1, 2008 12:55 PM

First things first, Snath I refuse to believe that you didn't think someone would add the letter "c" to your name. I think you are a drama queen who likes the attention, and it's nothing wrong with that. Secondly, Kayanne those people that spend time sizing up make believe spaceships and shit, don't like pussy, me personally I love snatch.

Posted by: Pookie at December 1, 2008 12:59 PM

I don't know Kayanne, it could be completely made up for all I know. I just searched "super star destroyer" on Google and that's what came up. I imagine they have measurements in books or something they base it on.

And bravo Pookie, you've finally nailed me. It's exactly what I was going for.

Posted by: Snath at December 1, 2008 1:22 PM

That was amusing. Thanks for the post. I was happy with the outcome.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at December 1, 2008 1:33 PM

I realize I am showing my nerd colors here, but did he say the shield had an output of 4.3 kilojoules? Because seriously, I run computer simulations on single molecules, and I get bigger energy values for pulling apart a freaking protein. 4 kJ wouldn't light a damn lightbulb. Damnit, now science has stolen Trek from me too.

Posted by: s. pisaster at December 1, 2008 1:51 PM

Jean-Luc Picard. That is all.

Posted by: Beatific Barf at December 1, 2008 2:19 PM

Give me a Death Star with a side of Imperial Fleet. Hold the exhaust port.

Posted by: Lucas at December 1, 2008 2:19 PM

s. pisaster, you had me at "freaking protein."

Posted by: Snath at December 1, 2008 2:21 PM

S.Pisaster:

I just received a big (i.e. size of book) Cadbury Old Gold chocolate bar from my friend down in Australia. One serving (i.e. 1/8 of the candy bar) gives me 1070 Kj.

The shield has an output of 4.3 Kj. Hum? An 1/8 of my candy bar has way more power.

Posted by: BWeaves at December 1, 2008 2:47 PM

Now that's the way to start the week! Truly an inspirational, creative, and let me emphasise ACCURATE contribution to the 'verse. Seriously, lasers? Laughing Data has it right! So what if the Enterprise is smaller, it's much, much, much better armed and protected. Hell, it could be a fighter on its own! Never mind that it's faster - I'd like to see a Star Destroyer defend against the Picard maneuver. And while Vader might be able to incapacitate the crew there's no way he'd be able to capture the ship as long as Data's on the bridge, or in engineering. And besides, since the Force is dependent on midiclorians (snicker) it's likely that Enterprise would be able to synthesise some and create their own super-force-wielding person. Suck it, Slim, Enterprise and Picard FTW!

(Vader vs the Shat would be awesome, by the way. But Shat would have women all over him, and would likely bring fellow womaniser Riker along as his wingman, and Riker would probably start a fight with Klingons just to get them pissed at Vader, and there's no way in hell Vader could out-do some pissed-off, woman-deprived, drunk Klingons. I'd also like to see Star Wars vs the Borg, and Vader vs Q.)

Posted by: lordhelmet at December 1, 2008 3:03 PM

That was an awesome analysis Lordhelmet, but when do you find the time to feed the women that are changed up in your basement?

Posted by: Pookie at December 1, 2008 3:41 PM

Come on lordhelmet. They are totally un-able to program Data with emotions (without him turning into a schiz) but they can manage to replicate force imbuing super micro organisms?

Quite frankly this discussion is starting to enter into the realm of fiction.

Vader vs. Shat would totally kick ass though.

DAAAAAAAAAAAARTTTTTHHH!

Posted by: admin at December 1, 2008 4:10 PM

BWeaves, if you converted that from the calories on the label then I think I love you. Also, I seriously haven't been this disappointed in half-assed scifi science since Doc Brown mispronounced "gigawatts."

Posted by: s. pisaster at December 1, 2008 4:21 PM

Admin, you forget Data's emotion chip was designed and built by Dr. Noonien Soong - a guy who's that big of a geek can't be expected to get an emotion chip right the first time - and there's incredible complexity in designing a chip to integrate into a neural net. Besides, midiclorians (snicker) as micro-organisms can be handled by an intern biologist - isolate, replicate and inject, how hard can it be? Hell, you could even go up to a replicator and say "Midichlorians, strong, booster shot" and walk away all force-eriffic!

I live in the realm of fiction!

"DAAAAAAAAARTH! Padme's dead!"
"NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"

lordhelmet begins giggling uncontrollably.

Posted by: lordhelmet at December 1, 2008 4:53 PM

S.Pisaster:

Sorry, I did not convert that from the calories on the label. The candy bar is from Australia and it's actually labeled in Kj not calories.

Posted by: BWeaves at December 1, 2008 4:56 PM

However, I do know that there are about 4 Kj to 1 Calorie, which means:

1. One serviing of my candy bar has about 250 C.

2. The shields have an output of 1 Calorie. ONE CALORIE. The shields have the output of a Pepsi One!

Posted by: BWeaves at December 1, 2008 5:04 PM

Laugh it up, fuzzball.

Sure, inject yourself with a bunch of test tube midichlorians and expect to wield supreme executive power. That shit needs training, not to mention other innate personal qualities. What the hell do you think Yoda and Hogwarts are for? The ability to articially replicate microorganisms, even midichlorians, is insignificant. I'm sorry, but you do not understand the Force.

Posted by: Jay at December 1, 2008 5:18 PM

Worst. Shields. Ever.

Posted by: s. pisaster at December 1, 2008 5:44 PM

Thank-you Jay. It's unfortunate that some people cannot grasp the intricacies of rockin' the force.

And don't give me that shit helmet. Soong got Data practically perfect on his second try but he can't build a relatively simple microchip?

Next you'll try convincing me that building the Enterprise to separate was a great fucking idea.

And I live straddling the line between fact and fiction. I find it gives me an appropriate excuse for my more questionable behaviours.

Posted by: admin at December 1, 2008 5:58 PM

In all seriousness, the merit of a work of science fiction does not lie in how much power is attributed to its weaponry or in how fast its ships travel, but in its characterization, its style, and its glorious ideas.

"Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter."

Being highly quotable helps, too.

Posted by: Lucas at December 1, 2008 6:00 PM

It's not even a fair match up. It should be a match up between a borg cube and a SSD. Because what you're comparing is the most badass starship in starwars (save deathstar) compared to the most badass starship in the Federation, not in star trek.

Posted by: Tomorrowgrain at December 1, 2008 6:18 PM

Admin, you persistent errors are beginning to cause me no shortness of dismay. Soong is clearly able to build a microchip, but a guy who's dedicated his life to building androids can't be expected to understand and properly implement an emotional framework! That, and the fact that Data's programming had evolved and developed likely beyond the implementation point that Soong had anticipated and there likely compatability errors - but nonetheless, the emotion chip was clearly a programming problem due to a misunderstanding of the subject matter.

Having the Enterprise separate wasn't a terrible idea, but wasn't as necessary as just being able to eject a breached warp core. There's no serious tactical disadvantage to separating, but no significant advantage either. The biggest design flaw is probably having the bridge in such a vulnerable position, not a detachable saucer section.

And sure, training is likely needed for the force, but if use of the force = midiclorians (snicker) + training, then the midiclorians can be isolated and studied, and an anti-force, or a force shield, can be generated. Star Wars relied too much on the airy-fairy force mysticism, while Trek would be totally able to devise a scientific defense rather than just rolling over and choking. Or, you know, they could set up force training with a holo-Yoda and develop mastery by distance ed/software courses. Clearly, in this clip (and in the realm of sci-fi), size isn't everything!

Posted by: lordhelmet at December 1, 2008 6:40 PM

No, The Doctor could defeat the Force, since he'd demonstrate that it was just science. Star Trek doesn't constantly make the metaphysical scientific like he does, so there's no reason for me to believe that the Federation would say "oh, it's nothing, just do this" and defeat Vader. And it's like the old question in the Chicago bar:

Is Ditka driving the bus?

Vader's driving the Star Destroyer, and Jean Luc ain't Han Solo. Plus, how many TIEs can be scrambled? A lot.

Posted by: Jay at December 1, 2008 6:49 PM

Oh, please. TIE fighters? Shooting lasers? [cues laughing Data]. Why not scramble some frikking laser-equipped sharks? Next! While Trek doesn't constantly make the metaphysical scientific, it does when it needs to (to wit: Ardra the false god, the wormhole gods of Bajor, hell, even the original Greek gods!). Yeah, Vader's driving the Star Destroyer - look where it got him. Jean-Luc's everything Solo ever hoped to be, and the only bad driver of an Enterprise was Deanna Troi, and in her defence she only had half of a badly damaged ship.

Posted by: lordhelmet at December 1, 2008 7:04 PM

Hurry Lordhelmet! the cops are closing in on your secret lair. I think one of the girls escaped.

Posted by: Pookie at December 1, 2008 7:20 PM

Jean-Luc's everything Solo ever hoped to be

Could I see some documentation on this?

Posted by: Jay at December 1, 2008 7:37 PM

Ok you guys, I'm conflicted. I don't know anything about Trek, but everything you're saying makes me want to Wiki it because I'm getting such amusement from your comments that I want to know what my opinion might be.

This, however, breaks my heart because (and I don't want to ruin anything for you guys, but...) none of this is real. And I really should be doing more research for my final Senior Sem paper about the advent and evolution of Political Satire, but this is so ridiculously distracting...

Maybe I should give y'all wedgies and push you into a locker; Jay I'd threaten break your glasses, but you said one of my favorite Han quotes. Also, I was too much of a geek in high/middle/elementary school to ever be the bully, even with guise of the internet (I do not aspire to disprove or prove the Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory), even with the fact that the distraction quotient of this thread has gotten so high, it's mind boggling.

*sigh* Pajiba, you be awesome. But if I fail my last semester of college, I'm sending my parents to you.

Posted by: Kayanne at December 1, 2008 7:50 PM

as usual i am very late to this party, but my panties are quite moist, my headlights are on, and i'm ready to go!

training is likely needed for the force, but if use of the force = midiclorians (snicker) + training, then the midiclorians can be isolated and studied, and an anti-force, or a force shield, can be generated.

No, The Doctor could defeat the Force, since he'd demonstrate that it was just science.

i LOVE it when y'all talk dirty! the truly sad thing is, i'm almost completely serious. this thread is fabulous--now i'm off to my bunk!

Posted by: pq at December 1, 2008 7:54 PM

The minute Jean-Luc is willing to off his own daughter because she wasn't willing to give up information about some bullshitting hideout, then we'll talk about who's more badass.

Posted by: Pookie at December 1, 2008 8:39 PM

Too...much...nerding...can't...keep...it...together...

Posted by: Snath at December 1, 2008 8:39 PM

O.K. lordhelmet I will concede your point about the good doctor and his emotional detachment from the rest of humankind. However, I will not accept that there is no tactical advantage or disadvantage to detaching the saucer section.

The propulsion section is intended to be the primary battle vehicle during detachment. This leaves the saucer without adequate weaponry and incapable of warp speed.

This is almost akin to a lizard detaching its tail when attacked to create a diversion. But in this case the diversion is filled with most of the crew and civillians on board therefore becoming more of a target than the propulsion section. In a fight with more than one ship, the engine portion of the Enterprise would spend more time trying to defend the saucer section then blowing up bad guys.

It's just bad tactics and a bad idea for any type of battle scenerio. Which I seem to recall was when it was used in most instances.

And to hell with reality Kayanne, this is way more fun.

Gaaaahh! I'm all geeked out for the day. I love Star Trek by the way however now I'm going to go look at internet boobs. That's not geeky right?

Shit.

Posted by: admin at December 1, 2008 10:31 PM

And to hell with reality Kayanne, this is way more fun.

Gah, admin! This statement is exactly why I'll probably end up drawing a little happy face saying "I quit!" on a post-it note in lieu a 15 page research paper.

Ugh. Finals and shit is turning me into a zombie.

Posted by: Kayanne at December 1, 2008 10:39 PM

What's all this talk of Star Destroyers only containing lasers? They also possess ion-cannons which drain energy from shields, and some are equipped with gravity wells and tractor beams, which not only disable ships movement, but lightspeed/warp speeds as well...

And who's to say they haven't got proton torpedos and concussion missiles? Plan ahead I always say.

Posted by: Some Guy at December 1, 2008 10:45 PM

OOOOOOOOoooooooo! That's what Star Wars never had, zombies! Unless you count Christensen's, Anikin.

Someone call Lucas we've got the idea for his craptacular sequals to the sequals.

Posted by: admin at December 1, 2008 10:47 PM

Ehh, admin when we call Lucas, can't we require that we write it. I mean, if he does it...

Well, all the zombies will be kids.

Posted by: Kayanne at December 1, 2008 11:15 PM

Absolutely. We can make it a political satire.


HAHAHAHAHA!

Good luck Kayanne.

Posted by: admin at December 1, 2008 11:29 PM

Be nice admin!

I'm forming an alliance with Pookie so you'd better not tease... Or completely remind me that if I'm not dead by December 15, my spirit may be. Ha. Good times. School sucks souls.

Posted by: Kayanne at December 1, 2008 11:33 PM

Dammit, I liked the Weimar Republic subtext from the get-go! Don't make me bust out an essay!

Posted by: Jay at December 1, 2008 11:45 PM

1. Wait? Did I miss the part were the 'Executor' shows up? It was a standard SD.

2. The Ent-D has 10 phaser banks, which can probably be individually targeted. TIE fighters have no shields, and even if the SD deploys the entire wing (72 TIEs), the Ent-D can obliterate them in seconds.

3. A SD could probably handle photon torpedoes. If it had the upgrade to quantum torps, then not so much. Especially if fired in a spread.

4. The SD would win by sheer mass: it can absorb a lot more punishment than the Ent-D.

5. There was a video done about this a couple years ago that was much better. This video, quite frankly, stank.

Posted by: Stenz at December 1, 2008 11:46 PM

Oh for God's sake, all of you grow the fuck up...

It was a clever video and most people don't give a shit about quantum vs photon torpedos, laser and shield strength, and other crap.

They were shows people! Make Believe! Pretend!

- this was a re-enactiment of Harvest Corn Dog in episode 12, a touch of reality...

Posted by: Harvest Corn Dog at December 2, 2008 1:42 AM

Um...

Death Star v. Borg Cube.

Wake me when it's done.

Posted by: Bane at December 2, 2008 4:32 AM

Admin, I'm not conceding any kind of defeat here but I'm calling a truce - internet boobies trump any sci-fi argument (and 7 of 9 brings the two together in the best possible way!).. Stenz, re your #4, that theory could be applied to a certain moon space station that got all blowed up by an itty-bitty X-wing. Sure it wins by sheer mass, but all Enterprise has to do is hit it really hard where it'll cause the most damage and the rest will take care of itself. Seems the empire's "engineers" sucked at designing for damage isolation and control.

Posted by: lordhelmet at December 2, 2008 12:36 PM

well to be honest i've read all of the above comments and fair enough this is now march so if anything this is the low blow after the final bell has rung but hey i had to discuss it all with my friends at work(no we're not all geeks but take an interest in the possible outcomes of random fights) for example would wolverines claws cut superman if superman were to stand still to test the theory...not an indea for a new thread. however if it comes to st vs sw then if it was ship versus ship star trek wins, size isnt everything if i recall thats a star wars thing so why are star wars fans screaming at how big the sd is.... bit of hypocrysy, now darth vader got owned thrice if am correct in the movies once by tyrannous once by obi wan and once by his own son so to use him as a marker aint good however ship versus ship was my point st everytime and when it comes to man versus man i'd take a jedi or sith over a random red shirt, plus lightsabres could cut through borg defences before you shout adapt..yes very intellectual and geeky but what ya say?

Posted by: duncan at March 9, 2009 1:58 PM


















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