Pajiba

Oh Dustin...

Sang it Dustin!

So no Dustin invite to his Smodcast then?

Well done, sir.

Dude, you sound, like, really whiny

Kevin Smith's tears taste like milkshakes and ham.

Finally Rowles you’re starting to see through Smith’s bullshit. This fucker makes one half-way decent movie and he thinks he’s entitled to unlimited blow jobs. I knew this fucker had reached his zenith when he started to hawk his dvds out of the back of his van. Then the motherfucka went full retard with his “An Evening with Kevin Smith” soirees. And now he’s bashing the critics and the bloggers for his failures, soon he’ll start to blame his audience for not understanding his craft. What you are witnessing is the unraveling of a once proud and mediocre film director.

Twitter has allowed Kevin Smith to become a very special type of weasel arsehole that has left all of the other de rigueur somnolent whiny merchants looking like rank amateurs.
@Kballs his tears do taset of milkshakes and ham but only after he has recieved a good kicking.

Well said. It feels like Smith is growing less and less secure about his talent and is lashing out as a result. I'd rather listen to him jabber on for 90 minutes than see any of his recent movies, though. When you can't see "Cop Out" as the colossal turd it was, you've got quality control issues.

Reporters have all the time in the word to listen to a 12 hour audio press release and glean the info they need. Right.

But, to quote Sam Elliott in some movie I can't quite place, 'do ya have to use so many curse words?' :)

You lost me once you inserted the Scott Pilgrim cheap shot. And I concur with the sentiment that Kevin Smith is being a whiny p because he got his wittle itty bitty feelings hurt last time around but methinks you are also taking his jabs at movie bloggers/critics a tad too much to heart.

With that said...what a fucking great rant. I especially love how it grew increasingly in crescendo.

Awwwwww, did Kevin not return your calls? This sort of irrational, hateful and hysterical ranting and raving is precisely what he's talking about.

Unbunch your panties and take a Midol, Rowles.

re: It feels like Smith is growing less and less secure about his talent..Reporters have all the time in the word to listen to a 12 hour audio press release and glean the info they need.

Posted by: Christian Toto at December 30, 2010 11:33 AM

1. He should feel insecure about his talent, the verbose fuck! His body of work is frankly disappointing and, to quote Despair.com, "the common link in all of your relationships is you".

2. Given his verbose fuckness, how would a 12 hour press release be any different from his in person approach?

3. I didn't realise I feel this much bile towards Kevin Smith. He was once the fanboy Crown Prince, but he's been passed over.

I just wanted to pop in and say that not only did I like Jersey Girl, I also own it on DVD. Yeah, I'm the one.

Yes, Rowles, take it from someone who knows (and who is currently in the process of not trying go down a whole damn bottle): Midol does, indeed, bring sweet, sweet relief.

I've re-read this piece three times and each time I giggle and wonder if Kevin Smith would probably print and frame it so he can go "See??!! This is EXACTLY the shit I'm talking about!!"

Nobody gives a better interview than Kevin Smith — there are as many people that will pay to see that man talk as there are who will pay to see his movies. It’s his biggest fucking selling point. Use it. Don’t back away from the press. If the press doesn’t like his movie, he should tell them to go fuck themselves. But tell it to their faces, not in whiny 140 character increments on Twitter.

Brilliant. Perhaps this behavior was well foreshadowed once upon a time at a computer kiosk in a Mooby's. Perhaps the phrase "ball-lickers" was used.

All my heroes are getting old...

I can’t believe I actually skimmed over the part where he gave a 12-hour press release. To be a fly on the wall when that shit went down. I imagine him setting on the side of his cot dressed in his military fatigues sweating profusely as he speaks into a microphone spewing out venom towards all that have wronged him, not unlike Col. Kurtz from “Apocalypse Now.”

I liked your blog. I think its really fantastic.

Nothing worse than trendy haters, I bet most of you haters talking shit "actually loved Clerks" you are actually FULL OF SHIT, fair weather fans. I don't see that Smith has become anything than what he always has been: outspoken, passionate and not taking shit from anybody, except now it's the critics and they don't like it. Well, tough cojones.

Lessee...

Unapologetic filmmaker complaining about bad treatment by critics and withholding access.

Critic complaining about anticipated lack of access at the hands of complaining filmmaker.

Kettle? That strange feeling you've got? That's Pot fucking you in the ass.

"unless the same leeway can be extended to Adam Sandler fans"

Smith and Sandler are not in the league, nah not even the same Universe therefore no leeway needs to be extended to Sandler fans, if such a creature even exists. Sandler doesn't really have fans, just people that go to see his shit. A Smith fan goes to his films because they want to hear what he has to say. Maybe YOU don't appreciate it (we don't need to explain it or justify to you either) or care but we do.

It appears that Lesser Antilles Slender beat me to the punch on that answer.

Ah well.

I'm still waiting for someone to justify their appreciation of Kevin Smith movies, and why they represent legitimate art. Subjective references to "I just like them," are insufficient, unless the same leeway can be extended to Adam Sandler fans...

1. Art by it's very nature is subjective; there is no standard for what makes one art piece "legitimate" over another (other than the standards of the individual). Objectively defining opinion is impossible, also by definition. If you don't like his movies, great. I do.
2. Yes, the same thing can be said of Adam Sandler fans. If they like his art (whether you consider it to be legitimate or not) then they needn't explain or define why.
3. There is no universal distinguishing feature for what is a "sufficient" explaination. I could go on a month-long diatribe defining each individual part of Smith's movies to explain why they amuse me and/or move me, but you still wouldn't agree. It still would still be "insufficient" because from your subjective perspective, you just don't like them.

Oh good Jeebus, not again. Total deja by what with the boys getting into a pissing match over whose is "bigger" and "better" and right. Just agree to disagree or, if we must why not save yourselves the time and effort and copy and paste your rants from the previous Kevin Smith piece.

Sheesh. Boys.

Wow! Holy harshness! I thought that on a film review website, and one of my favorites to boot, that we could debate the merits of Kevin Smith as a director. I think he is a hack, but I am certainly interested in why other people like him, otherwise I wouldn't be asking. I'd just like to hear him defended. I could defend Darren Aronofsky or David Fincher, two of my favorites, and explain why I think they are relevant. I just don't understand why people like Kevin Smith so much. You don't have to convince me to like him, but I would certainly be interested in why he still has such a rabid (clearly!) fan base.

Stop being so sensitive. And stop being so arrogant by suggesting you have insight as to why I'm asking. I'm just asking. If you don't want to explain why you like Kevin Smith, then don't. But don't criticize me for wanting to hear why you think he is good. If you're such a fan, I figure you would like to have the chance to elaborate on your appreciation of him as a director.

Your points about the futility of defending him certainly lead one to ponder why you like any film review website at all. Isn't the point of it to state your subjective criticism of a particular movie and open up the subject for discussion?

so you're only successful if you make movies that make 100+ million? Well then...Michael Bay IS the best director, ever....And too much blame is put on directors for a bad script; granted they should have passed on directing. And film critics are idiots...they really are, they constantly contradict themselves. Maybe this article's writer needs to grow some balls and be mature and professional.

"Crash, I answered this question weeks ago when you were annoying Smith fans in a different thread, and the answer remains the same. No one can explain why they like a movie in a way that will change your mind (or vice versa, for that matter), so what's the point of the exercise?
Simply to rile people up? Move on, man."

Always listen to Perfect Tommy. He's perfect.

Crash, I remember you from the last Kevin Smith discussion. You remind of this guy who once insisted to me that country music "just wasn't good" no matter how many times I explained to him that "good" and "bad" are opinions -- not absolutes.

You don't like Kevin Smith. We get it. Why should we waste our time trying to convince you your opinion is wrong when that's impossible?

Ugh. Fine. I don't know Kevin Smith so I don't feel strongly about him either way. He seems like a nice guy, one who might be fun to have a drink with. I only question his abilities as a director. "Clerks" came out in 1994. "Chasing Amy" in 1997. Perhaps I'll convince Dustin to let me post a critique of those two movies and his fans can savage me then (or explain to me why stating my opinion about something is such a futile exercise). Until then, we'll just continue hearing about his rants and his movies and his tours with his old co-stars. I can't wait to read the review of the straight-to-DVD "Clerks III" on this site, as we debate whether Jason Mewes in his fifties still makes a funny stoner.

“Crash, I remember you from the last Kevin Smith discussion. You remind of this guy who once insisted to me that country music "just wasn't good" no matter how many times I explained to him that "good" and "bad" are opinions -- not absolutes.”

Posted by: superasente at December 30, 2010 2:11 PM

Superasente, only a Sith Lord deals in absolutes.

Crash - everyone in the world has different opinions, people are allowed to just like something without explanation. Some people think Sarah Palin will be the next President some think she is the dumbest person ever.

But as you keep asking i personally like most of his movies as they appeal to my sense of humour and generally entertain me, my wife however thinks they are stupid and curse too much, but thats her opinion....

Here is the thing about smith. I've been a big fan for a long time, and I've eaten up the smodcasts and the movies and the dvds like candy, I'm on kevin smith overload and trust me it's easy to do when there is new content involving him almost every single day.

For those that aren't aware, and some might disagree with me here, but the big shift came after zack and miri. To me, this is the epitome of pussy. On smodcasts and his website he pimped zack and miri for months, video, smiling faces, high hopes, fan participation and groundswell. Then you know what? It only made 60 million. BOO FUCKING HOO! It was the highest grossing movie he had ever fucking made.. but because he tried his damndest to be judd apatow and he didn't do knocked up numbers, he turned into a major pothead and locked himself in his room for 2 months, stopped doing podcasts, stopped communicating with his fans, and contemplated ending his career as a film maker. Then when he returned to smodcast and started talking about things again, it was like a full month of whiny decompression and anger.

This is the same guy that still talks about too fat to fly and the accompanied hiding in his room and smoking more pot.. except this time he has tried to 'take it back' on twitter. He gets some cybersupport and now he thinks 'fuck southwest'. This is an oversimplification, but it snapped something in his brain. Cop out plus twitter love for being fat, his whole 'i'll never fly again' tirade ending in him buying a cross country bus. It's changed the guy, it's warped him into a more self important person, and after the failure of copout it has just become another jersey girl bomb reference, just like zack and miri had before it. He doesn't care that the fans love the movies, it's about opening numbers and payola. He would say different now, he'll claim he makes up for it on dvd and even bombs are someones favorite movie, but this is all after-the-fact covering his ass.

Now with red state he feels compelled to talk about critics with venom in his voice, talk about studios and distributors and the evils of all that, standing at a press junket talking about how he doesnt care about the press. How he's going to just promote the movie himself because he has a built in fanbase and he could give a fuck what's written up about him. Well, if that's true, then why did he read this article and try to turn his fans against it on twitter? I don't need to go on, I thought the article was sort of short and didn't go into detail, but the guy managed to get some truth out there even if he bypassed and simplified. There's a whole saga to how smith has gone downhill. It's been going on for a long long time, but ever since Clerks 2 it's all captured on glorious, still available, self important audio. Just watch out for anything over the past 2 years, as he's in such a stoner haze he can't remember what he was talking about from the start of the sentence to the end, and yeah I'm being serious.

Oh for fuck's sake. Here's what I wrote the last time Crash and I argued about this:

I like Chasing Amy because I think it's an interesting story, with excellent dialogue, it's funny and well-directed. I think it's an interesting examination of relationships, and for whatever reason, it resonated with me. That's basically how I feel about most Smith movies (though not all).

Did that help? Or was it not nuanced or detailed enough?

Well then, Jesus Christ, Crash... Read a fucking review of his movies, if you want to know why people like him. It's not hard to find a positive, intelligently written review. There shall your answers lie.

Yep, I found this article by following the breadcrumbs backwards from kevin smiths complaint. How somebody will 'need surgery to remove the foot from their mouth'. Pretty classy stuff! Though it's not as if this article is classy, so no need to throw stones. Point is, he complained about an article that says he complains too much, and he claims to not care.

Also, I liked clerks 2 as well. I thought it was one of his best movies and was a fun years later follow up to the original. In fact I would say it's my favorite he's ever done and as far as acting goes, has some of the better performances in his movies. Except for his horrible wife of course.

Sidebar. In Jay and Bob strike back.. am I the only person that was thinking 'why is there this awkward and unattractive older woman with the hot chicks?'

The movie industry is hard enough to crack into the ranks, difficult to stay in and near impossible for most people to re-enter once fallen from. For those of us still trying to find some breech to enter, we can only look at those who already have with either admiration, envy, or utter disdain.

For someone like Smith, it's a little hard not to feel a little of all three. He dropped out of film school, and made a low budget indie movie by allegedly playing several credit cards off one another. It was a ballsy and foolhardy move that miraculously paid off. From there he managed to make a series of small but profitable indie films of various degrees of quality that allowed him to keep relative control of his final product and yet still let him continue filmmaking as his profession rather than his hobby. He cornered himself a small niche market of dedicated fans and some respect both in and out of the film circles. For most of us that would be enough. But not Smith.

For some reason he decided that he wanted to make oodles of cash (and thereby perhaps get accolades in the form of shiny trophies) that many other inferior filmmakers seemed to be getting. And when it didn't pan out for whatever reason, he decided to not step back and recognize all that he already had, but rather piss and moan about what he had not. It was the studio's fault, or it was the critics' faults, or perhaps it will be the moviegoers' faults next. So far I have yet to hear him say he's screwed up- or if he ever has it certainly isn't first and foremost in his long-winded diatribes especially lately.

Kevin Smith either needs to accept his place in the world as he is, or if that isn't enough to satisfy his ego or bank account, he needs to evolve. If the latter is impossible than I can already predict his spot will eventually go to someone who will, preferably someone who wears big-boy pants both figuratively and literally.

Your problem, Crash, was using "legitimate art" in your question. That immediately identifies you as a pretentious knob who expects people to justify themselves to him/her. Who do you think you are that anyone needs to explain themself to you, except maybe your child(ren) if you're a parent?

That said, I absolutely get your desire to engage in debate/discussion on film in general, and a controversial filmmaker (for various reasons running from talent to personality) in specific. Personally, I think Clerks is his best movie precisely because he isn't a great director, he's adequate but not inventive or visually interesting -- which is why his direction on Reaper's pilot episode is one of his best works, he's perfect for TV. But, when he's got an idea in his mind, he can write the $#!7 out of it. Clerks is an excellent character study about, well, himself (but because he was such a normal dude at one point, it resonated with other pop-culture afficionados). Chasing Amy is another good character study, more serious and more nuanced, but ultimately unravels at the end... but so do all the relationships in the film, so it's arguable the unraveling was intentional (but either way, it works symbolically). Dogma is basically his interpretation of contemporary Catholocism, as well as being a feminist rant, and it's his best directed/edited project by far; there are some genuinely beautiful shots, especially in the climax, and best of all he was able to distill his thesis in one line delivered by Chris Rock: "I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea, changing a belief is trickier. Life should be malleable and progressive; working from idea to idea permits that. Beliefs anchor you to certain points and limit growth; new ideas can't generate. Life becomes stagnant." And while I don't care for the rest of his ouvre, all of them, as well as those I've discussed, have moments of actual hilarity. And finding something funny is pure subjectivity, but it's always legitimate.

Oh no! Someone repeated behavior that a writer from Pajiba called them out on as a way to refute criticism of them doing that behavior to begin with. Quick, sound the redundancy alarms!

Wow. I just took a peek into his twitter. Wow.

Dude, if you're following this, step back, get a grip on yourself. Think about how much you would skewer the person you're being right now in one of your movies. Even if people are being idiots, you don't do yourself any favors by going into a massive rant and trying to give it an in-your-face at the end. Be the better man, even when you feel like people are against you and the chips are down. This kind of reaction is just blood in the water, so if you enjoy yelling and being yelled at, full steam ahead. If you're really hurt by what's being said and you want to change people's opinion of you, take your foot off the gas pedal and think things through a bit.

Also made the mistake of looking into the Twitter to see what all the fuss was about and jeez it took me straight back to elementary where Sally refused to play with Cindy anymore because she was a big meanie that one time and said her dress was ugly and so when Sally started passing out invitations to her birthday party you think Cindy's bitch as got one?

He'll to the naw.

And the end result was that Sally ended up hating everyone afterwards because they said the clown was lame and there wasn't a pony ride.

Sad, but true.

This news made me sad.

But this rant made me happy.

It's like the Iraq war in my pants right now: frustrating, confusing, and no one gets to finish.

Or it plays like a fat kid asking all the cool kids to come to his b-day party my bribing them with pics of his hot sister semi-nude in a hero costume and free cake.

L.O.V.E.: It's my policy not to engage with filmmakers if I can avoid it, esp. on Twitter. You have to obey the separation of church and state rule there, although Drew -- God bless the guy -- stuck his foot in his mouth and crossed that line with Smith today. But, it looks like Smith has now changed his no-critics policy; he's actually inviting critics over to his house to see Red State now. Which is ballsy and shows he might actually believe in his film, and it's a brilliant marketing move on his behalf. Then again, it's a major ethical breach to any blogger/critic who accepts (and there are a lot of them). It's the sort of thing I do love about Kevin Smith -- he's turned a lot of dismissive bloggers who hated him into little children crawling all over themselves to get the candy. It's pretty goddamn smart.

Dustin, a brilliant marketing ploy it may be but it totally reeks of desparation and "LOVE ME PLZ" and honestly the idea of these critics being "bought" in that way just comes off as sleazy. How do you think the honest, pbjective reviewing will go afterwards?

And I'm glad regarding your stance on not actually bring one of those critics who take Smith up on his invite because, dude, you and the site would totally be dead to me. Bad enough I haven't fully forgiven you for the clown-rape joke.

As for Smith I'm just embarrassed FOR him.

About which situation, GMT? The one that's based in this rant is pretty spot-on from Dustin's retelling.

Re: Drew Morton and the Case of Foot-to-Mouth. Kevin Smith was referring to WorstPreviews in a tweet I haven't found yet, and Drew said,

"@ThatKevinSmith says @pajiba lacks accomplishment but sat down for an interview with us anyway. Huh..."

Kevin Smith responded with,

"Via @damorton16 "Kev says @pajiba lacks accomplishment but sat for an interview w/ us.Huh" Uh... I was talking about @worstpreviews #awkward"

Dustin, I appreciate you avoiding a slap fight with Smith, whether it be because you respect him and his work, or simply because such things *should* be beneath a professional.

Was this about face simply a realization that he shat in the face of the same people who comprise 80% of his Smodcast/Evening with/Comic-Con? Or did he figure that any doofus who actually showed up at his house for a Playboy Mansion-style movie night would be as easily manipulated as a local morning zoo?

He hasn't done a 180 like this since Virgin Airlines hooked him up.

This latest course validates your gripe even more: he's a more manipulative, passive-aggressive baby then my three-year-old.

And his glasses look stupid!

*pushes glasses up my nose*

Dude needs to rethink posting his burn opus magnum on a medium that limits you to 140 characters at a time. It's obviously prewritten anyway, and I feel like his whiny rant might've been more effective had I been able to read it in its entirety instead of piecing it together in 15 word chunks at a time.

Dude needs to rethink posting his burn opus magnum on a medium that limits you to 140 characters at a time. It's obviously prewritten anyway, and I feel like his whiny rant might've been more effective had I been able to read it in its entirety instead of piecing it together in 15 word chunks at a time.

Blank,

The problem is that he didn't tell anyone to go fuck themselves. He essentially said, "I'm taking my Barbies and going to play somewhere else," because people dared to give him a bad review over the course of his 20 years in The Biz. To me, he's using cheap tactics to chalk up publicity for a movie that looks relatively bad-ass in and of itself. (Stephen Root, creepy "cheap" trailer, etc.) If he simply stood behind it as a director with balls of steel instead of doing things like handpicking critics who've never given him a bad review in their lives to screen it; going on a rage campaign in 140 words or less; or other such nonsense, the movie would stand on its own merit. Now, however, I don't doubt that not only will these shenanigans cloud Pajiba's review when Red State comes out, but many others as well.

He either shot himself in the foot or we're playing exactly into his hands. For some reason, I'm going with the former.

Blank, I see it more as a "I'm taking my ball home" move, storming off, then coming to a slow crawl, then practically stopped until you beg him to come back.

Yah, he told movie bloggers to fuck off. Then he invited them to his house for crumpets. I still can't decide which is the bigger pussy move, but my biggest issue is that neither seemed honest.

The guy is human. i get it. No one wants to pour their heart into something just so some asstwat with a keyboard can go shit on it.

But we all face that ever day of our lives. And I don't have the ability to just ignore it. And I don't get to tell my clients (customers) to fuck off, or that they will hear from me on my terms.

And it doesn't come in the form of some mass communication. Its very personable, to my face criticism. If I do something my customers don't like it cost me much more directly then it would cost him in his profession. Frankly, if I had as many commercial ... lets just call them "mediocres" ... I would not get to keep the same job.

So all you've seen is three of his movies? That's it?

WOW! Given your passionate anti-Smith arguments in the past about how much he sucks, I would've thought you were tied down and forced to watch every one of his films (WITH the commentary on) with your eyes taped open and no water.

But no. You've seen just three. I just can't even fucking believe you would attempt having an opinion on a directors entire library and/or overall talent without actually watching their movies. Really, a spectacular amount of bullshit. Simply amazing.

You know who I don't like -- who I think is the worst fucking director of all time? Martin Scorcese! Fucking hack! Did you see that piece of shit "Bringing Out The Dead?" It's like Nicholas Cage took thirty hits of acid and Scorcese just happened to catch it on film. And "Gangs of New York" -- thanks for the CGI elephant, Martin. Really great way to deflate the entire built-up of the prior two hours. Don't even get me started on "Kundun."

*sigh*

I feel like I'm in a crazy house.

All this kerfuffle is because Smith's ego wrote checks that his talent hasn't been able to cash. Yet. Breaks my heart.

Oh, come on, superasente. Are you going to tell me you've seen every Uwe Boll movie? Every Paul W.S. Anderson flick? If you have, then I admire your commitment to the purity of filmic opinions, but I doubt you have. If I had to hazard a guess, I'd probably say you think they're not very talented filmmakers even without seeing their entire catalogue. Just basing that on Pajiba in general (and having seen a few of both their films, that's where I'd land). Crash even said he/she is interested in seeing Dogma now. He/she (vaguely) explained why they stopped watching Kevin Smith movies after Chasing Amy. Three movies is certainly enough to gauge your own opinion on an individual director.

I'll grant you that good artists change and mature and adapt with the new and blah blah blah, so it's always worth going back and seeing their new output. (Which is why I will someday watch Boll's Postal, as I hear that's his best work. Someday...) But it isn't a requisite to form an opinion, especially when you couch that opinion in the works you've seen. Crash probably should have hit harder on that aspect of his/her criticism, but he/she mostly rectified him/herself in their previous post.

Damn, dude. You don't have to draw a line in the sand and then cement your feet on one.

You're missing the point. The point isn't that Smith is a genius. The point is that you shouldn't form an opinion without properly educating yourself. It's been 13 years since you've seen a Kevin Smith movie. 13 years, and you feel you're intelligent enough to make a judgement call on everything he's done since then. 13 years and 6 movies later and it's incomprehensible to think that he might've actually grown as a film-maker. In that time, he's been married, raised a family, run a business -- he's learned from his past mistakes, tried new genres and mediums, sharpened his tools, and learned new tricks.

But you wouldn't know any of that because you're still clinging to the opinion you formed 13 years ago. That opinion is so strong in fact, that you actually feel comfortable attacking his talent and challanging others to defend him.

You want to know why people love his movies, Crash? I might recomend actually watching them. That's probably a good starting point.

Of course he can cast whoever he wants, but do you think he would have cast Elisha Dushku in that role if she were 20 years older and had big ears? Everyone is a critic here, casting is on the table I think. It was a group of sexy jewel thieves, so looks and acting ability are paramount in making those choices. She is not an actor, and lacks in talent (admittedly, stated by her) and she is older than the other girls, therefor she did not fit in visually. It's also been noted that she basically forced herself into the movie. She wanted to be in the movie, she used wifeyhood as leverage, and Kevin's first reaction was 'no way in hell'. He broke down though, because let's face it, it's also pretty well established that he does not wear the pants in the family. These are all things stated by the people involved. Not speculation.

From where I'm sitting, nobody was attacking Jen as Kevin's wife because there's some beef. It sounds more like a disagreement with the choice to put her in the movie, and judging a person on their looks, while admittedly not the classiest thing to do, is pretty much standard for film. Anyone who plays a role and stands out that much should be prepared for it. It's no different than calling Kevin fat, or even, a pussy, which is right in the title of this article.

I'm basing my opinion on what I understand are his best movies. And I'm asking for his fans to defend him and tell me which movies I should see that are indicative of his talent that I haven't seen, of which you have been able to do neither. Hypothesizing that Smith "may" have evolved as a director without sticking your neck out and saying whether or not you think he has is a weak argument. Obviously you're more focused on criticizing other commenters than addressing the point or defending your position. Either way, superasente, I'm done with this little pissing match.

Based upon RobP's suggestion, I am going to sit through "Dogma" with an open mind. Maybe if you had an open mind you might reconsider whether or not Smith has earned his indie credibility and continuing media exposure.

superasente, you're setting a weird standard for liking or disliking something. I read a Margaret Atwood book 15 years ago, tried another a few years ago, and won't try to read another. I don't need to read most of her books to know that I probably won't enjoy reading her books and therefore shouldn't read her books.

"I'm basing my opinion on what I understand are his best movies."

I would suggest you watch all of them for what they are (except for Jersey Girl that shit has J-Lo in it and that I just can't abide). As for your request that fans explain/convince you of his growth or development as a director, huh? That's up to you buddy, watch 'em like them or hate them for yourself, it's not reasonable for you to expect anyone to justify their likes or dislikes to you.

Did anyone ever find the original tweet that Drew responded to? Or Drew, could you just tell us what it was?

Drew, I figured that's what had drawn that reaction out of you and I stand by what I said in terms of baiting and switching it up at the end.

The only person needing scolding is Kevin Smith himself and I sorta wish his wife would tap him on the shoulder and advise him that he may want to leave the Twitter be for awhile.

I guess your chances of being on that guest list are slim to none now, huh Drew? ;)

Like Dustin, I don't condone crossing the personal and professional boundary. I have only done one junket on the condition that it was after I published a review of the film. I came out of a journalism program, both college courses and a brief career in print, I prize my ethics.

He may have been baiting, but I took it without checking my sources. Bad form on my part.

Drew, wasn't Kevin Smith intentionally baiting Pajiba by retweeting someone else calling out Pajiba's credibility? If he didn't agree with the sentiment, he wouldn't have retweeted it. It's not like it was a funny tweet; it was a slam against this site and a man ranting against online film critics decided to republish it on his own feed. You didn't need to check your sources any further. He was being an attention whore (by playing the victim so he could sick his fanboys against the mean old critics who turned on him) and now he's trying to buy his way out of it after the "oh shit, what have I done?" realization kicked in.

Robert,

Smith did not RT @BestfortheGOB. I saw that under a search for @Pajiba and, assumed from Smith's tweets at the same time, that he was talking about us.

I liked The Waterboy.

To be fair, I think it was Fairuza Balk and Kathy Bates that did it for me.

Would you settle for a piece of Chewlies gum?

*run and ducks*

Well this certainly won't make me reconsider my stance on not using Twitter.

Crash, I'd suggest you try watching Dogma as well. RobP pretty much nailed my feelings on most of Smith's work. While there have been aspects I enjoyed about all of them on initial viewings (except I haven't seen Cop Out), I have a hard time revisiting most of them. I do, however, look forward to Red State because I'm interested to see him try something different. It's a shame he won't be promoting it more effectively.

the whole incessant and obsessive world of social media creates moods/personalities/situations like the one Smith is in. It warps regular people who no one is paying attention to, let alone the impact on famous people.

Of course Pajiba is the only place I ever hear anything about Kevin Smith. Other than that, I have just his films to go on to judge him by, and I have enjoyed most of his films to one degree or another.

I do think Dogma was his crowning glory and that Clerks was dreary nonsense.

I'm going to french kiss you when we meet, RobP.

And Crash -- I'll probably french kiss you too. Fuck it. It's the next day; I'm not feeling nearly as rabid.

Wow...I am late to the game. I think Kevin Smith's problem is the same as all directors and pretty much everyone in life...we generally can't analyze ourselves accurately. I don't think Smith even understands what people actually liked about "Clerks" because if he did, he would not have made "Clerks II". Again, this is not unique to Smith. Look at Star Wars...I question if Lucas even understands the most basic aspects of screen writing and character development. But even the greats like Ford Coppola have made huge shit piles.

The thing about Smith that really bothers me is that he seems unable to recognize that people might not share his view of his work. His ego is quite large considering that his films are not in any real sense ground breaking. He ain't Werner Herzog fighting with Klaus Kinski in the middle of a jungle trying to get a shot. What film of his has he done that warrants his behavior? Please someone fill me in.

I should clarify: Open-minded and co-ed spin the bottle.

Ladies?

Alright, since everybody is kissing and making up, and we are the only ones reading the comments section at this point anyway, here are my two cents:

- I'm a big maybe on the same-sex spin the bottle. I'll need copious amounts of vodka and a "Fight Club" setting, to begin with. I do think it's interesting that everyone decided (correctly) that I'm male. I guess we're that predictable.
- I promise that I will watch "Dogma" with an open mind.
- I concede that I should watch more of his movies, but I have read such horrific reviews of his more recent movies that I'm afraid to give him another chance. The reason why I'm so critical, fairly or not, is that I think Smith should have ended up so much better than I think he has. My own opinion, from my limited watchings and (unfairly) from secondhand sources, is that he has phoned it in with his last few movies. I mean, assuming that he has relied on recycling the same old characters and taking advantage of his connections to A-list talent, wouldn't that be illustrative of a one-hit wonder filmmaker?
-I so expected "Chasing Amy" to be good, I truly did. I came out of that movie more mad than I did after the "Matrix" sequels. To me (see suprasente, I do know how to qualify my opinions), it turned out to be such an immature, comic-book-geek, adolescent fantasy, like Smith was unwilling to rise above his limited exposure to lesbians and relationships. I thought Alyssa's character was one-dimensional and completely unrealistic, a thirteen-year-old boy's fantasy of what a lesbian might be. Holden's behavior toward her was worse, well before he proposed the threesome. I just can't believe I'm in the minority on my acrimony toward this movie, and clearly I must be. My opinions about movies and directors and actors otherwise dovetail with the Pajiba audience, but Kevin Smith is the glaring exception. His ongoing media exposure utterly baffles me.
- Thanks for the props, RobP. I had parallel frustrations with Tarantino as I did with Smith because I wanted more "Pulp Fiction," "Reservoir Dogs," and "True Romance" movies (all derived from his "On the Road" script), but I've learned to appreciate him as a more derivative filmmaker. My suggestion to Smith would be a comparable reinvention (and not in the "Cop Out" direction).
- I'm asking those of you who saw "Chasing Amy" several years ago to watch it again, now that you're older, and see what you think.
- Lastly, what a fascinating, articulate and educated group this is (no, I'm not 70 I just sound like it). No wonder Dustin gives so much love to his commenters.

(So much for "fascinating, articulate, and educated," eh, Crash?)

Crash, I actually agree with your entire assesment of "Chasing Amy." It's immature, unrealistic, mysoginistic and melodramatic. With just a peppering of middle-school homophobia for seasoning. You are not alone.

If I were you, I wouldn't actually start with Dogma. All the things you don't like about Mallrats, you're going to find in Dogma. Yes, it has an interesting statement to make about faith, and yes Jay and Silent Bob are at their absolute best. Based on the directorial preferences you stated earlier, I'd guess that you like something with a little bit of soul. Something a little more grounded, and a little bit less silly (Clerks, despite it's hyper-witty scripting certainly had a sick sense of realism -- good guys aren't going to win -- all of us are fuck ups).

Dogma is another fan favorite. But technically, it's not his best.

I'd watch Zach & Miri Make a Porno. Technically, he's developed leaps and bounds. Nevermind that his script is tighter, the jokes are funnier (sometimes dirtier, but sometimes just smarter) and the characters are more fully realized -- even the camera work, use of music, and muted settings help the movie take on a more grounded tone. More akin to Clerks. Less akin to Mallrats (FAR less akin to Dogma). It's like he learned from all the mistakes you just pointed out in Chasing Amy and made an effort to repair them. It's entirely divorced from the rest of his View Askew-niverse, so there aren't any inside jokes to follow. He even breaks one of his own laws and lets his actors break from the script when it's called for -- essentially giving them the freedom to do what they do best. It's definately still a Kevin Smith movie -- but it's not exactly a "Kevin Smith Movie."

If you can't bring yourself to watch Seth Rogen schlub around the screen for 90 minutes, I would revisit Clerks II. Like you, I loved Clerks when I first saw it. I'd never experienced humor like that, and I'd never seen the things I loved so dearly (comics, movies, star wars) celebrated so directly before. It astounded me. Clerks II is more than just some trite little sequel Smith made to make a few extra bucks. He revits the tone of the original, the themes of the original, and adjusts them from the perspective of an older man. If the first Clerks was about realizing you aren't a teenager anymore, that its time to stop feeling shocked about having responsibility -- then Clerks II is about the next step, about embracing those responsibilties, learning that adulthood isn't a burden, but a blessing.

Cop out you can safely skip.

After that, then I'd go back to Dogma, Jay & Silent Bob Strike Back, and Cop Out. They're fun, but they're not his best stuff.

Listen, Smith's skills don't exactly lie in directing. He's great at writing, casting. He's great at marrying music to his scenes. He's filthy, smart and hilarious. Is he the best cinematographer? No. Is he ever going to win an Oscar? Almost certainly not. But he's fun. If you take him in the spirit of fun, you'll enjoy his work much more.

Good luck, Crash. Welcome to Pajiba.

Diablo, I've always assumed Randall is a cunning linguist. That's the only explanation I have for his inexplicable appeal.

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