Pajiba

Unfortunately, there's really no one guy (or gal) who isn't supposed to do this. People do messed up things.

If anyone's familiar with Tim O'Brien (he wrote The Things They Carried) he's this amazing writer that I just loved. I had an opportunity not only to meet him, but have dinner with him and a small group of people.

So I did. And he was an ass. I wrote off the first two or three assey things he did, but once it was clear his entire personality was ass-wipey, I couldn't do that anymore. He's married to a woman much younger than him, they have two young boys (he's in his early 60s) and the boys are almost completely neglected because of their respective careers (he said very seriously that nannies and boarding schools raise the boys and that's the way he and his wife prefer it).

He got drunk and proceeded to proposition every woman there. Then he propositioned his steak.

We were in one of the nicest restaurants around and they politely asked him to remove his baseball cap. He refused, then verbally abused the tiny young waitress who had to ask him. They sent a man over to ask him, and they had a private conference, which ended in shouting. Turns out he's balding and doesn't want anyone to know. So there he was wearing a baseball cap and a formal suit. I heard him yell "DO YOU KNOW WHO I AM?" and the restaurant guy said it doesn't matter, please remove your cap.

The guy is an award winning author. He has written stuff I've found so moving, so compelling, I get other people to read it. I've taught his works to high school students.

And he was a douchenozzle.

I'm not saying this is true about Letterman. I guess I'm just saying.

*Lest anyone think I'm being too hard on the guy, I realize you can be an amazing writer/whatever AND a douchenozzle. It was just disappointing.

It's always hard to find that someone you admire from a distance isn't someone you'd admire up close.

It doesn't invalidate the respect you have for his work, it just makes him a little smaller in your mind. It's why I never want to meet the people I idolize. Never.

I'm one of those people that think that portion of the story dealing with his past relationships is his- and his wife's - personal business, and quite frankly, we know none of the details. Who's to say when this happened, or if it's something he confessed to his wife in the past, or if it's something that they've already worked through as a couple. He's not an elected official, he hasn't betrayed the trust of anyone other than his wife (if in fact he did cheat on her), and, like you said, he hasn't done anything illegal. For me the real issue is the extortion plot against him, he is the victim of a crime, and it looks like the person responsible will be brought to justice.

As for his family, I wish them the best and I hope they'll get through this. And I hope his little boy doesn't have any idea what is going on.

Well, first of all, it takes massive guts for Letterman to out himself -- not to be outed by TMZ or some asswipe who finds his morals in a paycheck up the skirts of celebritards. That doesn't make whatever he did better or worse: it just puts in perspective that Dave used his show to put his issues on the table rather than try to spin what he did as some kind of accident or conspiracy.

But that said, Rowles, this is two for two this week. First you condemn Polanski and the Hollywood bastards who would exonerate his rape of a 13-yr-old girl, and today you're shocked an appalled by the promiscuous lifestyle of another entertainer.

The next step for you it to simply admit it: we're all like this. This is who we are, and this is why the world is the way it is.

It is depressing, but it's true.

Let's not forget that sordid incident in which Jay Leno gave an NBC page a chin job.

I'm with Kolby. As long as the sex was consensual and within the confines of the law (no drugging or underage partners), I will not condemn Letterman. This is something to be worked out within his marriage. If this was something that happened within my marriage, I would be a widow.
I do have a problem with the person who saw an opportunity to embarrass and extort a fellow human being and their lapses in judgment. I have a problem with a person that sees a paycheck in this situation and doesn't stop to consider the impact their plot for money has on the wife and child of the man who made the mistakes.

I don't see why this is a big deal in any way. People meet people. People have sex with people. The guy is likable and famous. He didn't do anything illegal. This is how the world is. You don't know anything about his family. I find it a bit hypocritical that so often people say that someone did well to cheat on their partner or even boast about it if the situation appeals to their ears but then you complain about Letterman's affairs. Whose business is it? I just feel sorry for his family if he was cheating on them behind their back. Moe than that, no one can judge, especially when you have so little info to work with.

Full marks for saying what he did on the show and for not falling for the blackmail trap. That would have got him and his family into an even bigger mess as the demands for money got bigger and the pressure reached explosive proportions.

Gotta love the way Dave handled this.

First, I was bowled over when I saw your headline. I had seen a few news items last night, not read them through and assumed that someone was falsely trying to accuse/blackmail Letterman. It never entered my mind that the accusations were true.

Second, I don't think Dave ever wanted to get married. I think he (like Bill Maher) was one of those dudes who was just meant to be single and liked it that way. But I think after he had a child, he felt it was the right thing to do. So am I making excuses for him? Not really, but I suppose I'm saying that I do think some people have a certain nature, and that Dave went against his own.

Third, it sucks - but it's ridiculous to truly be surprised by cheating revelations these days. It seems more appropriate to think that most famous people cheat than to think they don't. It's sad, but it's true.

I do really respect the way he handled the situation. And I still love him.

Absolutely no way you can compare this to Polanski!!!!
Letterman didn't do anything illegal. The blackmailer did. Letterman is defending himself in all the clever adult ways given to him by the magnificent State of NY and the glorious USA.
Step No 1: talk to your family
Step No 2: talk to your attorney
Step No 3: talk to the authorities
Step No 4: talk to the people who will be deciding if you'll be keeping your job, that's the network and his audience
Although, honestly, I think it's sad he even has to fear some reprimands from the network OR the audience because I think his sexual life is solely a private matter, as long as no harassment was involved.
You watch him due to funnyness not due to preaching.

I applaud Letterman for taking it into his own hands - people make mistakes, I'm of the opinion that as long as it's between two consenting adults, it's none of my business.

As for people you admire letting you down, I worked on a film with a well-respected actor (who was all kinds of lovely) and he told me that his biggest disappointment to meet was Sean Connery. Apparently he's "the meanest man" the actor I worked with had ever met. It's second-hand, I know, but it still made me sad.
I like Sean Connery.I don't want him to be mean...

oh get over it rowles, dave got his dick wet. Big deal, stop being such a pussy.

I sympathise, Dustin. That's pretty much the way I felt when I met an actor I'd really admired for years, and found that he had feet so clay-ey you could make pots with them. It's a heart-sinker.
It's one thing to know that we are all human, nobody's perfect, yadda yadda, but that doesn't stop us from putting some people on pedestals. It's only human of us!

For what it's worth, I can't condone Letterman's sexual behaviour, but admitting it in public like that? Balls of brass he has. Admire that, I do.

dene The heavy-handed I can see at times (I don't think he deserves the Nobel Prize or anything) but isn't all writing manipulative?

I totally understand how Dustin feels because, all rationalizations
aside, cheating is just mean and selfish if you have a family. He has
a child and he jeopardized that child's sense of family and security.
I do think that Letterman handled himself with class and dignity and
as to the rest of it, well, it's none of our business.

The celebrity I can never look at the same again is Alec Baldwin.
Every time I see him, I hear him saying "rude thoughtless little pig".

Anikitty - I suspect that the deposition and grand jury testimony
took care of the uncomfortable questioning quite well.

I love Letterman too...but really? An entertainer who didn't get married to a woman he was dating for 20+ was cheating? Not a shocker. But he handled it as best as he possibly could have...and as long as he does his job, I don't care.

@hater, Polanski and Dave are hardly comparable. What Dave did was stupid and regrettable. What Polanski did was rape and sodomize a 13 yr old girl.

If you think those are at all equivalent then I suspect you may have suffered grievous damage to your brain.

WOW! That is how you turn the tables right there. That's makin' lemonade, son. I thought that he handled that unbelievably well and with a considerable amount of tact and class.

I have a friend, one of my best friends, who is a complete and total dirtball and cheats on his wife all the time. He's always been a dirtball and I suspect always will be. I really have to work hard sometimes to avoid the looking down upon/judging/moral high ground approach with him because if I treat him that way I know that it will devalue our friendship to the point of nonexistence. He is one of my oldest friends but I don't see him much or share things about our wives, because I know that I will turn into that guy that I don't want to be.

I guess I'm just saying that I can empathize with your disillusionment and disappointment, DR. And while a kind of void is there, I don't think it fair to judge in these kind of situations. After all, we're all made of the same shit. Capable of the same shit. And since we are, we tend to let folks down sometimes. But fallibility is the beauty of what and who we are.

Cumstain.

OF COURSE the acts of Polanski and Letterman are not even close to being in the same ballpark.

However, I do find facets of the two discussions analogous and relevant. There is a timely synchronicity to these two events. People are struggling with separating the art from the artist in both cases. People are calling for boycotts from those who signed the petition of support for Polanski. People are expressing a similar disillusionment with all the people on that list as well as Dave.

We want to believe that there has to be a certain amount of common ground between ourselves and the artists we admire. How else could they craft those messages that resonate so well with us if that common ground did not exist? It is one thing to be beguiled into thinking an actor is a good person if only because they choose roles that support values we deem important, but when that individual - actor or not - makes a public statement that seems genuine and would also seem to coincide with the values that we find important, it can be confusing.

With someone like David Letterman it can be even more confusing. This is a guy who we see speaking off the cuff frequently on a nightly basis. There is a degree of performance there, but we also must be getting some insight into his true character as well, must we not? Don't we know him at least a little? When he first spoke to us after 9/11, that was him, wasn't it? When he put George W. Bush on the spot on the show, wasn't that him too?

Please bear in mind I'm not condemning Dave or giving him a pass. I'm simply addressing the source of these feelings.

The bottom line for me is that we're all fallible - Dave, the people on that petition, and (especially) Roman Polanski. For me this discussion has much less to do with judgment of any of those individuals personally and much more to do with evaluating ourselves, the origins of art and entertainment, and the cult of personality.

oh get over it rowles, dave got his dick wet. Big deal, stop being such a pussy.

Todd, you win this award.

Way to contribute to the conversation.

I have idolized Dave from the get-go and I mean from the days of his ill-fated morning show. I am disappointed in the news but because he is a human being who was willing to admit the truth to a national audience - HIS audience, specifically - I am cutting the man some slack.
As far as his work, I will always hold him up as the consummate pro and one of the funniest men I've ever watched.
His personal life is something that I can only hope gets better and that Harry doesn't suffer for it.

I would've been alright... Had it been his admision to sleeping with one of his staff members. That shit happens. But nooooo... Apparently Letterman is fucking pimp?

“I have had sex with women who work for me on this show.”

Multiple women... More than one... How many- Fucking christ. How many could he have possibly... Christ... Letterman... Having sex...
I've burnt down my bunk. It's now condemed and no longer suitable for bunking. I will never bunk again. Images of naked orgy swimming David Letterman has rendered idea of bunk obselete.

Images of lanky, naked Letterman... Having sex... Christ... His skin looks like the film ontop of butterscotch pudding left in the fridge too long... And the squiggly, curly hairs he must have... Everywhere!!!

Christ... on a cracker... Sex with women. More than one...

Do you have any gum? Do you have any gum?... because I don't want my breath to stink before all that SEX! DAVID LETTERMAN SEX. The man has the sex appeal of a roll of masking tape.
Christ....ahhh god... Terrible.

I just can't stop seeing his OOOO face.

I'm impressed by how Letterman handled the whole extortion situation, but when I first heard about it, all I felt was disappointment. I really like Letterman, I think he's hilarious, and my vision of him did not include the sleaziness of office affairs. Obviously, it has nothing to do with me; He didn't betray *my* trust, and these things happen all the time, but just because it isn't illegal doesn't make it okay. And it is the kind of thing you expect from politicians, but I always admired Letterman much more than any politician.

He's a MAC DADDY!

go Dave!

THANK you socalledonlycousins. That was exactly the thought that came to my mind as I started running down the "disapointed" and "disgusting cheater" comments.

Monogamy isn't the exclusive, the univerally prefered, or often times even the ideal way to express commitment in a realtionship. Just because it's the default in our culture doesn't mean that everyone operates that way.

If the sex with his co-workers was consensual (issues of power and implicit coercion not withstanding) and assuming that his arrangement with his partner was one of non-monogamy--what is there to be dispointed or disgusted by? This isn't about cheating if his partner and he negotiated a non-monogamous arrangement. Period. Married or not.

Perhaps his candor, though driven by the attempt to pre-empt the blackmail and future tabloid shitstorm that would be (and will likely still be) inevitable, was because he knows didn't do anything wrong and though regretable to have to share more about his private life than he'd like, figured better to be upfront and reduce the ugly speculation to the degree that he can.

If all the variables point to: consentual, not a violation of the commitment to his partner...can we not weep and wax about lost innocence here and let a grown up man be a grown up man? Why are so many folks taking it personally?

Perhaps, like me, they are regretting not trying harder to have gotten a job at CBS ten years ago...if I only knew I might have had a shot at showing Dave my stupid human trick. sigh.

Eh... he's clearly a complex motherfucker. And he's human. Everbody got they somethin'.

And all the people clutchin' they pearls... dig this: ain't cheating if your spouse is in accord with situations. (Not sayin that's necessarily the case here, but the arc of what's acceptable to a person's loved ones is unknowable to outsiders.)

Lookit: I wouldn't expect most folks to condemn Dave for this -- and I just learned that one of the women was Stephanie Birkitt, his much younger assistant several years ago (the affair was broken off b/f Harry was born). If it's the case that he stopped having affairs before Harry was born, then I'd cut him some slack, too. But at the same time, he's positioned himself now to be the target of the same kind of ridicule he offers up about other people every night of the week. When it's your job to mock the moral improprieties of others on a nightly basis, it's best not to put yourself in a hypocritical position.

That aside, for me, this is different from finding out that Jon Stewart or Conan O'Brien or Steve Carrell or whoever was having multiple affairs. It just is. I looked up to the guy. I admired his Midwestern values. And the idea that he might have had some sort of "arrangement" with Regina Lasko only makes it more hinky, in my opinion. Because I don't want to think of him that way. Clinton, maybe. Letterman, no.

I am pleased to see, however, that most are chalking this up to "being human." And as a human being, I can certainly forgive the transgressions. It's just that -- whether it's right, wrong, pathetic or delusional -- I idealized the man. I liked not knowing about his personal life, because I could fill it in to suit my own preferences. And this -- especially in light of the on-camera flirting he used to do with Stephanie -- well, it doesn't fit into my perception of him. And that's OK. I'm not trying to be self-righteous here. I'm just ... I'm disappointed. That's all.

The lesson, of course, is just not to except so much from public figures, esp. those in the entertainment industry. I just liked holding on to the belief that there was one guy who might have been above that bullshit.

Ha! Grace B -- the truth is that Jeremy and I had a simultaneous professional and personal falling out. Letterman had sort of brought us together as best friends in high school, and a shared history had kept us as friends for nearly 20 years. But I think we ultimately came to the conclusion that we just didn't like each other very much. Unfortunately, our personal differences meant that we lost one of the best voices on the site. I keep expecting him to spring up somewhere else, but to my knowledge, he hasn't yet. If he does, I'l make sure to point everyone in that direction.

That was the most riveting television I've seen all year. It had to take tremendous courage to do the right thing, admit he had had done these things, in order to stop this guy. Everyone has some dark shit in their past and if you are too young to have them now, you will. I refuse to believe otherwise. How many of us would risk the relationships with our family and friends if we were likewise extorted?

I'm not vindicating the behavior that led to this, but his response to it makes me respect him more than I did.

Do we maybe see now why, with Clinton, it was never "only about sex" or "nobody else's business"?

Posted by: , (TCFKAB) at October 2, 2009 3:19 PM

----------------------------------------------

Yes it WAS about sex, and folks getting sand in their vaginas about behavior taking place between adults. That was taken over by extremists to bring down a democratically elected official.

I don't give a shit if he was screwing Monica OR having orgies while conference calling Yeltsin as long as it isn't getting in the way of running the country or was using the nuclear button to anally probe somebody.

Dustin, just two quick things:

1. I would argue that Dave has not, at this point, done anything that I (a Midwesterner) would consider counter to "Midwestern Values". I return to my previous comment: Dave continues to give back most generously to the community that raised him. He makes a positive and, I think, very personal impact on the lives of many of his fellow Midwesterners...and he doesn't even live there anymore. That kind of love for where you came from and general honoring of it is what I consider "Midwestern Values" to be all about.

2. Should he have slept with a co-worker (any co-worker, subordinate or not) given that he was a television star and it was bound to come out eventually? In my opinion, totally no, 'cause I find it to be wholly stupid. Does it make him lacking in some kind of moral capacity? Given that coercion or some kind of abuse of power was not employed, no, not really. If we start condemning any two unmarried consenting adults for jumping in the sack, the list of people to look down on is gonna get looooooooong.

All I am saying, Dustin, is that I don't think the lesson here is that we should expect LESS from public figures...I think we should expect as much as we ever have. The lesson rather is that public figures ARE human, and when one does something that we find doesn't jive with our perception of them, we should examine the facts of the matter and do our best to determine if they are still worthy of our positive opinion. I just think if you weight all the positive that Dave does, and consider that he has handled a nasty situation with what I would consider to be courage and a certain aplomb, he can still be a hero for you. Maybe not as big of one, but perhaps a more valuable one in that he has shown that we all make errors, but hiding under a rock is not how people of character deal with them.

Just my two cents.

You know what really moves me in all of this? Dustin's disappointment.

I think that many of us choose our heroes and look up to them because we think they're better than we are -- they're what we aspire to be.

When they fail, it flies in the face of everything we believed about them, which kinda takes all the legs out from under our admiration.

And we don't just worship our heroes because of their talent. More often, we love them because we think we perceive integrity and character in them. That's why it feels like such a betrayal when they fail us.

For example, Derek Fisher is my very favorite basketball player. He doesn't have the most talent on the court (he does have to share it with Kobe, after all), but he plays with the most heart and I admire him for his integrity on and off the court. Last playoffs, he saved a crucial game (and, arguably, the championship itself) by hitting some crazy three-pointers and sending the game into overtime where the Lakers eventually won.

If he had missed those shots, I still would have loved him for trying. If the Lakers had lost the championship and everyone blamed him for it, I would still have risen to his defense. But if I found out that he was cheating on his wife, I would have been devastated. Everything I admired him for would have been a lie.

When our heroes fail, I think we start to wonder if it's possible for anyone to live up to these heroic standards -- can I be better than that? My kid looks up to me -- will I disappoint him the way that my hero disappointed me? It's scary to consider that possibility -- and depressing to think that it might be inevitable.

Fame and power are a trial by fire that I'm thankful not to have. Put a man in an environment where he's constantly tempted to be unfaithful and women are throwing themselves at him -- some would say he's bound to fail. Still, we hope that our heroes have the strength to resist -- because we hope that we would have the strength to resist if placed in the same situation.

And then add to the the burden of a hero lost the burden of a friend lost -- my heart really goes out to you, Dustin. I didn't know what happened with Jeremy, and I'm really sorry to hear that you guys had a falling out. And the fact that today's news reminds you of yesterday's hurts -- you must be having a pretty crappy day.

*hugs*

Don't care.

Adultery is something for a husband and wife to sort out. I don't see it as a black mark against someones ability to entertain or govern, or anything else that actually affects me (vs to something that just peaks my curiosity). How someone manages their own relationships is their business.

How do you know it wasn't?

Posted by: , (TCFKAB) at October 2, 2009 4:27 PM

------------------------------------------

Seemed to be running fine, in fact it was.

i've been watching david letterman since he did his morning show--back when i was still in high school and i graduated in 1983!!

this is so NOT a big deal. he was single and had sex with women he worked with. if i didn't sleep with people i worked with, i would have never got laid or even married!!

and if i worked with david letterman on a daily basis, and he was willilng to get down with me--i'd be over the moon. i think he's adorable. and i actually like him even better knowing that he's not some crusty old piece of bread that's too uptight to enjoy the ladies!!

unless i find out he's killing puppies, i'll support dave all the way!!

I don't show forbearance towards infidelity in any manner. I think it's a repulsive, selfish, borderline-evil thing to do.

But it just so happens that some really amazing people have had major lapses in judgment and have committed this grievous sin. It does happen… and it's genuinely tragic when it does... but it happens nevertheless.

And all things considered, (let's reflect on the way some in the public eye have handled issues with infidelity), I think he handled this in a way only David Letterman could.

Perhaps I will look at him a bit differently now, but I still think he managed to have more (dare I say it) decency while addressing this than most could muster. It may not have been an ideal declaration of guilt, but it’s also a far from ideal situation to begin with. There are no winners in circumstances such as this.

I can understand why people devolve into hero worship, really? I mean how else can one justify their existence, right, can I get an 'Amen'??

Ok, maybe not so much, but truly, does this come as a shock, a revelation, a universal disjunction of the esteemed 'best-of' moral equivalent total of human consciousness?

Hmm, um, err, um... no? I don't think I'll sleep again? Actually, maybe I will. Awww. In truth, I don't give a crap. That, as others have noted, 'ol Dave' was with his current wife for 15+ years before taking le plunge, it comes as no surprise that he indulged his-self.

Disappointment is not something that would ascribe to this development, rather, an 'hmm, oh well' kind of acknowledgment, an then move on, move on people, move on...

I wonder what his long time gf now wife thinks of this.

I think you recently reported that Mrs. Rowles just turned 27. I'll safely assume you've
been married for less than seven years. And you
are "both repulsed by adultery and fascinated by the motivations that drive a
person to do something so fucking selfish, self-destructive, and hurtful."

You are both astonishingly judgmental, and suffer from a slightly bourgeois sense of
propriety.

Not for you the transgressive or taboo.
Not for you any tolerance of the weakness of
the flesh. Not for you any distinction between love and sexual passion.
Not for you "hate the sin but love the sinner."

Keep 'pitchin' em down the middle on social and cultural values.

I shouldn't care.
It's his life.
And by extension his penis.
He should do what he wants with it (Oh God)
He'll still be funny...
But just the thought.
Eurg.
I'm going to take a shower, and pretend this didn't happen.

ew. I'd like to rewind to the time when Letterman was not a sexual being.

And speaking of self-righteous... wow. I sure can go on and on and on about me & my views, can't I? This isn't my $.02, it's my buck-fitty.
Posted by: Anna von Beaverpuppet at October 2, 2009 6:17 PM

AvB, you nailed it to the wall.
There are smart, sensible people on the 'jiba, dammit

My first reaction to reading this?

"Don't even joke about Jon Stewart"

Which made me think that perhaps I could begin to understand the confusion that comes when an idol falls. We should know by now that there are many faces of adultery. An Ed Hardy shirt is not the only indicator of douchebaggery.

"Snuggiepants I'm not surprised that Tim O'Brien was a douche. His writing is manipulative and heavy-handed, and it is evident that he thinks very highly of himself. I hated The Things They Carried probably for the reasons you love it."

Dene - THANK YOU. I had to assign O'Brien when I was a writing instructor way back when and "Carried" gave me a creepy feeling for precisely this reason. Kind of reminds me of John Irving in that you just know that somewhere in there the dude has wimmen issues.

As to Letterman, give Dustin a break. It's okay to be disappointed by the spectre of an idol's infidelity to a spouse. It's a dick move, regardless of context.