web
counter
 

Armond White and Pajiba Trolls

By Dustin Rowles | Posted Under Trade News | Comments (81)



internet-trddoll.jpg

Armond White has seemingly gotten exactly what he wanted all along with his ridiculous, contrarian, anti-intellectual intellectual reviews for the New York Press. He’s gotten attention. Simply by virtue of shitting on good movies (Inception, The Dark Knight, and Pixar’s entire oeuvre (he claimed that Jonah Hex was a far superior film to Toy Story 3)) and praising shit (Transformers 2 and Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull , which he claimed was superior to Iron Man), White has reaped the attention he so transparently craves. And like the worst kind of Internet troll, people can’t help but to not just pay attention to him, but give him what he wants: attacks. Worse still, he’s like Tony Scalia: He’s brilliant enough to intelligently defend his own wrong-headed positions.

That was apparently the case when White appeared on the Slashfilmcast the other night: I haven’t listened to it myself yet (no offense to the brilliant, well-spoken nicest guy on the planet, David Chen, but the only podcast I listen to is FilmDrunk’s (Vince giggles like a ninny) or one where our boy Will Goss guest hosts, because most of those movie blogger podcasts are painfully myopic and manage to beat the living shit out of trade news minutia). Truthfully, I don’t have much interest in listening to Armond White because, like Scalia, he makes me seethe. And sadly, I’ve developed a begrudging respect for Scalia’s intelligence, and I’d hate to do the same for White. But, from what I understand, Armond White did a fairly decent job of winning the intellectual points with the Slashfilm guys, even as he lost the populist ones. (Either that, or possibly, some other movie bloggers criticizing the performance of the Slashfilm guys are jealous puds grappling with the notion that scoring Armond White essentially puts Slashfilm on a different stratosphere as the rest of us. But those dudes deserve it; they came about it honestly.)

Perhaps White’s most controversial statement in that podcast, however, came in his bashing of Roger Ebert, who he claimed ruined film criticism. He stated:

I do think it is fair to say that Roger Ebert destroyed film criticism. Because of the wide and far reach of television, he became an example of what a film critic does for too many people. And what he did simply was not criticism. It was simply blather. And it was a kind of purposefully dishonest enthusiasm for product, not real criticism at all…I think he does NOT have the training. I think he simply had the position. I think he does NOT have the training. I’VE got the training. And frankly, I don’t care how that sounds, but the fact is, I’ve got the training. I’m a pedigreed film critic. I’ve studied it. I know it. And I know many other people who’ve studied it as well, studied it seriously. Ebert just simply happened to have the job. And he’s had the job for a long time. He does not have the foundation. He simply got the job. And if you’ve ever seen any of his shows, and ever watched his shows on at least a two-week basis, then you surely saw how he would review, let’s say, eight movies a week and every week liked probably six of them. And that is just simply inherently dishonest. That’s what’s called being a shill. And it’s a tragic thing that that became the example of what a film critic does for too many people. Often he wasn’t practicing criticism at all. Often he would point out gaffes or mistakes in continuity. That’s not criticism. That’s really a pea-brained kind of fan gibberish.

It’s a stinging rebuke of Ebert, and while it’s absolute bullshit, it’s not bullshit without a little merit. It’s true: Ebert probably didn’t have the formal education, although 30-40 years of on-the-job training probably made him every bit the expert he is now. But I agree: Ebert’s television show was largely responsible for reducing film criticism to an up or down vote, and conditioned some folks to ignore the substance of a review and head straight for the letter grade, the number rating, or the thumb direction (that’s why we don’t provide such things). But then again, White represents that other extreme: With White, it’s not about the movie at all; it’s about the criticism. And if you reduce the movie-watching experience to an exhaustive, intellectual experience, then you’re kind of sapping the joy out of watching movies. In my opinion — and you’re certainly free to disagree and probably will — Transformers 2 didn’t deserve an intellectual examination of its “pop culture, industrial experience,” as White offered; it deserved Michael Bay penis jokes. Christopher Nolan films deserve thoughtful and smart reviews; Martin Lawrence deserves gimmick reviews. A review for a brilliant movie should complement the film; a review for a shitty one should stand on its own, because nobody is going to see that goddamn movie anyway.

At least that’s my philosophy. But then again, I had no formal training, either. Unless you count Professor Rykman’s property class, where we spent four weeks dissecting a two-page case (that’ll sharpen one’s analytical skills, at least).

Ebert’s not the best critic; he’s not the smartest dude in a room. But he did put a face on film criticism; he pulled it out of academia, and out of the New York Times, and — along with Pauline Kael — he brought it to the mainstream so dumbasses like me could make penis jokes. Armond White is a douchebag for not respecting the fact, were it not for Ebert, that the New York Press probably wouldn’t even exist.

And on a sidenote: Speaking of Internet trolls, we’ve had a few here of late (Rusty beautifully addressed the situation last night). It’s the price of doing business on the Internet, I suppose. And thankfully, we’re not overwhelmed by them, and most of the other regular commenters do good to ignore them, except for Pookie, whose schizophrenic ramblings have become weirdly endearing. But for the trollers among you: I don’t care if you want to criticize the site. I’ll put up with it. I’ll listen to it. And some of it I may even take to heart. But do me a favor, OK. Use one fucking commenter handle. Be consistent. Don’t be a cowardly douchebag and hide behind three or four different aliases. You’re already anonymous; you don’t need to splinter your anonymity. Grow a pair. I’m not going to ban you for talking shit. But I will if you use four different names to do so. (Or, at least, I’ll try). If you’re going to be a douchebag, be one douchebag, not four. Asshole(s).









Each Time You Like, Share, Tweet or Stumble a Pajiba Post, An Angel Does the Paul Rudd Dance



College, Inc. Review | The University of Phoenix: Screwing America One Student at a Time | Pajiba Love 21/07/10









Comments

And with that, I am finished with the internet.

Guess which one of you or Mr. Ebert is going to be remembered for his criticism, Mr. White? (Hint: it won't be you.)

Posted by: Anna von Beaverdouche at July 21, 2010 11:43 AM

Rowles... i generally consider you a nancyboy... but, bravo on that one.

Posted by: Todd at July 21, 2010 11:43 AM

When I was reading his quote, I could swear he was channeling Glen Beck. So much, in fact, I was waiting for the obligatory "it's all Obama's fault" conclusion.

The man can't write and it sounds like he can't speak as well. Besides that, I've got nothing.

Posted by: Scully at July 21, 2010 11:45 AM

Armond White is a vile imbecile. Making the statement that Roger Ebert destroyed film criticism is like saying Michael Jordan destroyed basketball; everyone wanted to be like Mike, and then we got a legion of wannabes who couldn't carry his jock (I'm talking to you, LeBron). White isn't worthy enough to be mentioned in the same breath as Roger Ebert, academia be damned. Yes, Ebert made it possible for anyone with a laptop and a broadband connection to suddenly spout film criticism, and Ebert taught me that criticism is about the visceral experience of film viewing, not sharpening your pencils and abusing your thesaurus in a haphazard, ego-driven fashion.

Personally, I think White is a hateful little asshat, much like Andy Rooney is. The two should share a porch rocker together and shout at kids to get off their fucking lawn.

Posted by: Gus at July 21, 2010 11:48 AM

And, for what it's worth, if you want to read film reviews that narrow down criticism to a simple "up" or "down", then read Entertainment Weekly. As for us film lovers, we'll stick to reading Roger Ebert and Pajiba, thank you very much Mr. White.

Posted by: Gus at July 21, 2010 11:51 AM

White is an utter troll.
Never heard of him until someone showed me the amusing rage directed at his TS3 review and then Slash Film got utterly rolled by him this week.


Unpack the language from his Transformers 2 review and compare it to say that of his District 9.

Under the auspices of the kind of critical discourse he espouses to promote he fails miserably.

"Transforming is the capitalist dream of rebranding. It’s not transcendence—thus, the need for the basic sci-fi story of good vs. evil, where Revenge of the Fallen alludes to the story of Lucifer."

Throwaway rubbish hiding behind fake, badly applied academicey language that any decent editor, or fucking community college TA would throw back at their columnist/student with "WTF?" scrawled on it in red sharpie -
or would have until print began to die and print criticism developed the speedier more viscious symptoms.

Andre Bazin and George Orwell woudln't piss on this guy's prose if it were on fire.

Taking that kind of shite and comparing it to the deliberately provocative reading of District 9 - ignoring any implicit or explicit historical context of sci-fi using real-world events not to create parables but to ground the author's fantasical tendencies to somethign that will help create a more coherent narrative.

This guy is PURE agent provocateur - pure devil's advocate in the sense that none of it is heartfelt - its a wee game he's playing in his head and its all about the page views.

nothing to see here but an ugly dude under a bridge ranting at goats - time to move along.

Posted by: PyD at July 21, 2010 11:52 AM

I was wondering for about half of the article if White actually had a point in his long anti-Ebert diatribe. Sometimes, however provocative, the unpopular and downright controversial opinions should be dissected free of pre-conceived notions, so that we might actually find something interesting and worthwhile within.

But then I kept reading and realized the label "self-sucking, shit-stained, smug-charlatan sonofabitch" applies more readily.

Someone forgot to call out White on the fact that if you're going to make a case for anything, it's all kinds of retarded to use YOURSELF as a major point of argument. Apparently they didn't teach that at the University of Dumbfuck.

p.s. D-Day loves alliteration.

Posted by: D-Day at July 21, 2010 11:56 AM

You mean "Antonin Scalia," the U.S. Supreme Court Justice? Sorry, I had to.

RE ruining film criticism: Oh please. That's like saying McDonald's ruined the hamburger. Some people are fine with McDonald's (not that I think Ebert is the McDonald's of film criticism). And a few people with more money than brains will pay $60 for the uppity film critic equivalent of a hamburger. This White guy is a douchebag.

Ebert did help to mainstream film criticism, which I think is generally a good thing. The really stupid people aren't reading his reviews anyway. They're going to a movie because it has 'splosions, car chases and titties in it. They don't care what Ebert thinks, any more than they would care what Armond White thinks.

Posted by: Slash at July 21, 2010 11:56 AM

While his television show may have reduced the reviewing process to an up or down vote, Ebert's written reviews are tremendously astute, and--which I have always greatly appreciated--he is very much aware of the ethical implications of what he's seeing, which is more than many critics (including probably Mr. White) manage to do.

Posted by: MissGina at July 21, 2010 11:59 AM

I for one firmly believe Dustin will cuttabitch.

Also, I love this.

Posted by: Nadine at July 21, 2010 12:03 PM

RE trolls: Trolls are sad. That's it. 98% are not smart enough to inspire anger, they're just tiresome, like litter or people who fart in elevators.

Posted by: Slash at July 21, 2010 12:04 PM

What a fucking asshole. Seriously, I can't believe what he said about Roger Ebert. But what I hate the most is that people like him get so much attention. The fact that I'm talking about him probably doesn't contribute to making him disappear, but I'd rather call him a cunt-nugget here than engaging in an internet fight with that, uh, cunt-nugget. I don't give a shit about his credentials or how many film-related majors he has. If he thinks that film criticism is about "honestly disliking" more movies than the ones you like, then he's got it all wrong.

In conclusion: Leave Roger Ebert alone. He's awesome. And you know what? So is Rusty.

Posted by: Sofía at July 21, 2010 12:05 PM

I've watched Siskel and Ebert from their Sneak Previews days, and it wasn't about the Thumbs Up or Down. It was about what they had to say about the movie. What they disagreed on was most entertaining to watch as they debated the merits of each movie. At the end, they summed it up with an up or down, but that's no different from the star number system you see in the papers, or the limp dick system some of the porno magazines show.

While I may be attacted to the Up or Down thumb on Ebert's site, I still wanted to read or hear WHY he gave it that rating. I don't think anyone who goes to Ebert's site just looks at the thumbs and then goes away.

Posted by: BWeaves at July 21, 2010 12:07 PM

White may have had the training, but not all training sticks. And he mostly certainly doesn't have any talent in the writing department. It doesn't matter what foundation his film criticism is based upon if he a) reduces it to absurdist college-freshman provocatism and b) can't communicate it coherently.

I could write pages of rantiness about how Charlotte's Web is a thinly-veiled parable about the rise of labor unions and socialism, but the sheer volume of words and outrageousness wouldn't make it any less fucking retarded.

Posted by: Wednesday at July 21, 2010 12:08 PM

What is a troll? Little help? I've played D&D for years, so I have a whole different idea.

Posted by: superasente at July 21, 2010 12:13 PM

I seriously need to start working on my new website:

"Angry Person Who Hates Everything People Love"

First post will be puppies and Betty White.

Posted by: figgy at July 21, 2010 12:13 PM

I'll go along with everything you say Ebert did for film as long as you accept that he didn't do it alone. Too many people forget the great Gene Siskel and really, the power of "At the Movies" was because of Siskel and Ebert and the way they interacted. You had Siskel who was "trained" and taught film criticism versus Ebert who just loved movies and they brought the concept of eyeing a film critically to the forefront.

As for the whole training thing. There are jobs one should be trained for: medicine, lawyering, structural engineering and there are others (I'm sure I'll offend many here) for which lots of people seemed to do just fine at before the diploma course was introduced: clothing design, creative dance, journalism, and I would argue, movie criticism. I'm not saying these courses shouldn't exist, but if someone is for instance a superbly talented photographer, should we say his photographs shouldn't be shown because he never took an MFA in photography?

Posted by: PaddyDog at July 21, 2010 12:14 PM

I like the fact that more people are becoming aware of the evil monster that is Armond White, but I hate the fact that it means he's getting more attention, and probably more page hits. Someone said it before, but let's take a page from the Treehouse of Horror and ignore him. Just don't look, people!

Posted by: RobP at July 21, 2010 12:14 PM

Or I'll steal Pyd's idea an name it "Ugly Chick Under the Bridge Ranting at Goats", because it's genius.

Posted by: figgy at July 21, 2010 12:21 PM

and it wasn't about the Thumbs Up or Down. It was about what they had to say about the movie.

And Ebert has said REPEATEDLY that he hates star ratings and like systems:

"I wish that I didn't give star ratings at all and every review had to speak for itself."

"Star ratings are the bane of my existence, because I consider them to be relative and yet by their nature, they seem to be absolute."

And my favorite: "The problem is with the use of stars as a rating system. Star ratings go back to that simpler time when film critics stood on far hillsides and signaled to the grateful peasantry with torches and brightly colored flags. Indignant readers write me: "How could you give Film A three stars and Film B only 2-1/2 stars? I will never read your reviews again." I reply: "A wise decision! My reviews are for those who are stronger in literature than math." "

The man has a sense of humor. Unlike SOME PEOPLE I could mention. *cough*ArmondWhite*cough*

Posted by: Anna von Beaverdouche at July 21, 2010 12:29 PM

I'm glad that Mr. White has deemed my opinions null and void. Who the fuck am I to say I like a movie? Who the fuck am I to have an opinion? Who the fuck am I to decipher a film in any manner I see fit? Why should I be able to even consider a media that is provided for my entertainment. My gods but I'm a smug, conceited asshole.

Also, Dustin, do I really have to stop using all the different handles? One? Really?

Posted by: admin at July 21, 2010 12:35 PM

I love it when TPTB put on their big girl panties and shit-kicking boots.

Posted by: Kayanne at July 21, 2010 12:41 PM

Trolls should go shit in their shit and eat their shitty shit.

Armond is a world-class shit-talker who has a high emotional intelligence, meaning he is a genius at manipulating people. These folks can use it for good (i.e. Bill Clinton getting a beejer and sucking a marinated stogie in the oval office), or to harm/irritate others (Bill Clinton getting a beejer and sucking a marinated stogie in the oval office). Armond has decided to use his knowledge of film history as a conduit for this intelligence, which makes him an insufferable asshole. Just because you can make the "Transformers" movies sound profound doesn't detract from the fact that they're a pair of puss-filled whale hemorrhoids.

Posted by: Kballs at July 21, 2010 12:42 PM

RE superasente: "What is a troll? Little help? I've played D&D for years, so I have a whole different idea."

A troll is a person with nothing better to do than visit websites and post things like "This site sucks" or pick pointless little fights with other commenters, espousing the dumbest or most ridiculous position on any subject just to make other commenters outraged or offended or whatnot.

Posted by: Slash at July 21, 2010 12:46 PM

i give this article a B+.

Posted by: gp at July 21, 2010 12:51 PM

Now I know why I hate the Transformers movies, I'm not trained. I don't have the background to know what I like. I'm so ashamed. From now on I will religiously read Dr. White's brilliant reviews before I see any film so I will be able to parrot the astute opinions (I should say certainties) of that genius.

Posted by: mechadave at July 21, 2010 12:52 PM

Okay, disclaimer: I have a huge fucking intellectual crush on Ebert. Seriously, reading this blog posts gives this girl a brain boner every time.

I never watched his show; I was too young and just didn't care about film the way I do now. But recently, I started following Ebert because of his political writing, and then I started following his written reviews. He's thoughtful about every film he reviews, even the movies he ultimately decides suck a huge monkey turd.

But here's why I really love Ebert: his embrace of new media, blogging, and technology. He may have invented the "previous" method of reviewing, but he isn't solely committed to television or major news papers as the venue for film criticism. In fact, he argues that the internet and the explosion of movie blogs have led the golden age of film criticism. In this post, he even points to bloggers I've never heard of, celebrating the insight and innovation "ordinary people" have into the world of film. He's embracing technology (except for video games), and that's refreshing for an old dude who came into his own through print media. Ivory tower he is not.

Read the blog post, and tell me if it doesn't make you swoon. God, I love this man, and I will slap silly anyone who calls his person in question. Watch out, White.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2010/04/the_golden_age_of_movie_critic.html

Posted by: Ruth at July 21, 2010 12:57 PM

"Boone's review fits my definition of usefulness. It doesn't matter whether I agree with him. He helps me see things."

http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2010/07/the_myth_of_a_perfect_film.html#more

And now you know why I love Ebert. He helps me *see* things, whether I agree with him or not. And that, to me, is the point of criticism. Not to give a film a stupid star rating (or tomatoes, or thumbs, or rats, or whatever the hell the clever little gimmick is).

Posted by: Anna von Beaverdouche at July 21, 2010 12:59 PM

RE superasente: "What is a troll? Little help? I've played D&D for years, so I have a whole different idea."

A troll is a person with nothing better to do than visit websites and post things like "This site sucks" or pick pointless little fights with other commenters, espousing the dumbest or most ridiculous position on any subject just to make other commenters outraged or offended or whatnot.

incorrect. trolls descend from mighty lines of warriors and shamans. they may dip heavily into da voodoo but they often have noble intentions. they were kicked out of their homeland but, by Sen'jin, they're taking those islands back this fall...

(warcraft geek, i keep posting these hoping some other hopeless addict will shout back. i can't be the only one on this site that plays that game, right? no? ok then)

Posted by: Sinnh at July 21, 2010 1:00 PM

Sing out, Ruth! Amen and hallelujah.

Posted by: Anna von Beaverdouche at July 21, 2010 1:01 PM

I find it fascinating that this item and the College, Inc. item went up in such short order. White's pseudo-intellectualism really brings to bear the true flaws underlying the industrialization of education.

Posted by: lubeg at July 21, 2010 1:08 PM

Can I get a witness??

Posted by: Ruth at July 21, 2010 1:09 PM

@ Sinnh - bah! Everyone knows trolls are green giants with 10 feet of reach who regenerate everything but fire and acid damage!

About Armond White - I haven't read much of his stuff, but what I have read strikes me as standard-issue "freshman English student from a privileged background trying to be clever" stuff.

Posted by: Royalewithcheese at July 21, 2010 1:21 PM

Beyond being smug, I think this guy is just downright delusional. He's one of those people who feels that if he studies the "theory" of something long enough, he has more knowledge of said thing than someone who has done the task for 30 yrs.
I'm sure Ebert didn't come up with the entire format of the show. Considering the man writes actual insightful and lengthy reviews for the Chicago Sun Times, I'm sure his first choice wasn't to be on a show where he was reduced to flipping his thumb up and down and giving about 1 minute of criticism. Hence why he kept writing.
It is clearly evident from reading Ebert's reviews that he is a genial person, who maybe isn't always "critical" enough of a film. But his reviews reveal a person who not only has had much life experience, but who has a true love of film. This pedantic idiot White, whose ego is so bloated I'm sure his head is threatening to break through to the ozone, doesn't even deserve to THINK the type of things he puts in his reviews, let alone commit them to the page. GO AWAY!
I'm sorry for the super long rant, but I feel very defensive of Ebert after his battle with cancer. How is he hurting White? It's not like Ebert has a job and White doesn't. He's still free to call himself a critic (using the term loosely) and spew his trite reviews AND get paid for it. I don't see how Ebert has hurt his career trajectory in any way.

Posted by: ninetwenteetoo at July 21, 2010 1:25 PM

A troll is a person with nothing better to do than visit websites and post things like "This site sucks" or pick pointless little fights with other commenters, espousing the dumbest or most ridiculous position on any subject just to make other commenters outraged or offended or whatnot.

No, I disagree, Slash. You dick. God, you're so fucking stupid all the time. Trolls are awesome. They regenerate unless you kill them with fire.

Pajiba doesn't even mean anything. This site sucks.

(like that?)

Posted by: definately NOT superasente at July 21, 2010 1:27 PM

I totally agree with BWeaves, it was the conversations between Siskel and Ebert and not the thumb ratings that were so valuable.
I watched the show long before I was old enough to watch most of the movies, so in some cases I had to wait upwards of a decade to watch them but I made the effort because of the reviews.

Posted by: king at July 21, 2010 1:31 PM

Let's unleash Mr. Blond on Mr. White, shall we?

Posted by: , at July 21, 2010 2:01 PM

I just think back to how Mel Brooks described critics: as the afterbirth to the birth of the artist.

Armond White is an afterbirth.

Posted by: Fredo at July 21, 2010 2:07 PM

puss-filled whale hemorrhoids

Posted by: Kballs at July 21, 2010 12:42 PM

So how did the cats get there in the first place?

Posted by: Brian Griffin at July 21, 2010 2:08 PM

I'm honestly confused about how he can claim Ebert doesn't have the training he seems to require. The man has a degree in journalism, he's been a working reporter since he was 17. He's a lecturer at the U of I in film, not criticism, film as in the art of filmmaking. He obviously LOVES movies and has spent his life learning everything there is to learn about them. What exactly does White consider "training" in this context? Because all of that speaks to someone with impecable credentials, regardless of if you agree with him or not. The TV show, which seems to be the only thing White is refering to in his comments, is the smallest part of his career. It's fine he doesn't agree with him, to each his own. As Ebert himself said in a recent blog post, "The one thing you can never be wrong about is your own opinion. It's when you start giving your reasons that you lay yourself open," and that's where White loses me. He's just wrong here.

Posted by: lumenatrix at July 21, 2010 2:25 PM

One of the things that bothers me about commentary on Armond White is that there seems to be this assumption that he is an intellectual (I think this assumption is mostly fostered by him). He may or may not have a university education (as noted above, likely from the University of Phoenix), but compare his writing to that of Ranylt, or Michael Murray or Steven Lloyd Wilson.

They write insightful, intellectual articles, they clearly demonstrate that they have educational training in the subject matter, and they can use big words and seem to know what they mean. And they do all of this without seeming like they're just trying to show off their fancy educations.

Armond White reads like that April Fool's day review Ranylt posted a couple of years ago. He strings together a bunch of big words in ways that don't entirely make sense, and ties them to seemingly randomly chosen literary or philosophical theories.

He may have some training, but he doesn't understand film or criticism or (in my view) his own writings.

And there's other thing he doesn't seem to get. I've only heard of him because of reading Roger Ebert. Ebert posted about him about a year ago, justifying one of White's ridiculous positions, and Ebert's latest blog entry was, in part, a defence of pseudo intellectual contrarians like Armond White.

Posted by: Gentleman Farmer at July 21, 2010 2:28 PM

There's a douchebag film critic out in San Diego named Duncan Shepherd, who writes for the San Diego Reader. He hates virtually every movie you can think of. I think these papers hire these assholes because they think they give them intellectual credibility. I consider myself a pretty discriminating movie viewer but these guys are insufferable.

Posted by: Jonzo at July 21, 2010 2:33 PM

like Scalia, he makes me seethe. And sadly, I’ve developed a begrudging respect for Scalia’s intelligence

Like you, I loathe Scalia but respect his intelligence and well-crafted but rage inducing writings. So, I have a Scalia story. Two actually, but this one is the best. He was the speaker at my college graduation. Why? Because his son and son's friend beat the living shit out of a visiting student (permanent damage) after a football game. The friend went to prison. The Scalia progeny went on to graduate with us and Scalia became our commencement speaker.

Posted by: Smokey at July 21, 2010 2:38 PM

You guys seem to want Armond White to bless the movies you deem worthy of blessing. And since he didn’t bless those movies you guys want to break the guy’s balls. Movies are a personal thing to the individual viewing them, case in point Transformers 2, this site in particular seem bothered that the movie was even made. Now I will agree that Mr. White has some fucking balls to be talking shit about Ebert not having “training” whatever the fuck that’s supposed to mean. Training my ass, what the fuck kind of training do you need to sit on your ass and watch a movie?


On a personal note you’ve set back my therapy about six months, Rowles. I was starting to feel good about myself, thanks for throwing a Molotov cocktail into my therapy sessions. My therapist thanks you also.

Posted by: Pookie at July 21, 2010 3:22 PM

Smokey - That's appalling. But, unfortunately, not surprising. I don't think even in my wildest dreams I could ever understand what the lives of the rich are like.

Posted by: ninetwenteetoo at July 21, 2010 4:12 PM

I don't see what the whole hullabaloo is about. I tend to think of Armond White as the Uwe Boll of film criticism. He thinks he knows what he's doing, and god knows someone lets him do it, but the result is sub par and derivative. Admit it though, in the right mood with the right mood enhancers it can all be pretty damn funny. You can't take it seriously. It's just good for a dumb laugh once in awhile.
He's getting lazy though. Gotta step up the troll skills. Repeatedly comparing movies to each other is fine, but pick some new movies. I mean, HAS he seen other movies than Transformers, Jonah Hex, and Peyton Place?
I wonder.

Posted by: intervamp at July 21, 2010 4:13 PM

RE "You guys seem to want Armond White to bless the movies you deem worthy of blessing. And since he didn’t bless those movies you guys want to break the guy’s balls."

Can't speak for anyone else, but nah, that isn't it for me. The guy just sounds like a dick: "I’m a pedigreed film critic." WTF does that mean? Does he have a certificate that he carries everywhere, in case anyone challenges his film critic bona fides?

I don't worship Ebert, but Ebert seems to like films in general. This other guy just seems like what he really cares about is making sure everyone knows how smart he supposedly is.

Posted by: Slash at July 21, 2010 4:14 PM

You are so right Slash, I just don’t get the whole “I’m a better critic than you are” thing. The guy lost me when he said he was a “ Pedigreed film critic.” And on top of that he writes with a lot of anger which isn‘t good, the New York Press had better have their attorneys on speed dial because their relationship with Mr. White isn’t going to end well.

Posted by: Pookie at July 21, 2010 4:43 PM

I always thought the Internet usage of "troll" came from the fishing term "trolling". I think they throw out outrageous comments as bait and see who will rise to the provocation.

Posted by: Pat C at July 21, 2010 5:13 PM

I always thought the Internet usage of "troll" came from the fishing term "trolling". I think they throw out outrageous comments as bait and see who will rise to the provocation.

Posted by: Pat C at July 21, 2010 5:13 PM

You mean it has nothing to do with David the Gnome?

Posted by: Sofía at July 21, 2010 6:01 PM

So remember, kids. Unless your opinion goes right along with popular opinion, you are a troll!

Posted by: Case at July 21, 2010 6:36 PM

I’ve got the training. I’m a pedigreed film critic. I’ve studied it. I know it. And I know many other people who’ve studied it as well, studied it seriously.

Well skippy, let us know when you've won a Pulitzer for your excellent writing on film criticism like the terrible Mr. Ebert. Maybe you want to check your mailbox and see if they sent you one overnight express.

Posted by: OscarTamerz at July 21, 2010 7:25 PM

I've never been a huge fan of Mr. Ebert -- our wavelengths just don't mesh, most of the time.

But this dishonest FUCK, Armond White, has the fucking gall to criticize another critic when he himself plays fucking dishonest games in his reviews just to garner some fucking attention????

Where the fuck do you get off criticizing ANYONE, YOU MOTHERFUCKING SHIT STAIN?

SHIT STAIN, SHIT STAIN, SHIT STAIN!

You, Armond White, are a motherfucking SHIT STAIN!

Go fuck yourself.

Posted by: Rykker at July 21, 2010 7:29 PM

Armond White is the movie reviewer equivalent of Perez Hilton. They both seem to live for notoriety and will apparently do anything to accomplish it.

Posted by: snapnhiss at July 21, 2010 8:16 PM

I just read his Dark Knight review.

My god, what an ass.

Posted by: superasente at July 21, 2010 8:28 PM

I don't blame Siskel and Ebert for reducing film criticism to a simple up-or-down score. The marketing machine that promotes movies is responsible for making people focus exclusively on the "Two thumbs Up" instead of reading a review.

What puzzles me about White is, who is he trying to reach with his verbose, intellectual reviews? Intelligent people hate him, and normal moviegoers can't understand a thing he writes. I will say this, though: I find the comments people post on his reviews extremely funny.

Maybe TK should interview him.

Posted by: Big Softie at July 21, 2010 9:06 PM

Two thumbs up!

Posted by: Mick J at July 21, 2010 10:14 PM

Well skippy, let us know when you've won a Pulitzer for your excellent writing on film criticism like the terrible Mr. Ebert. Maybe you want to check your mailbox and see if they sent you one overnight express.

Posted by: OscarTamerz at July 21, 2010 7:25 PM

Oh snap! T.K.O. for OscarTamerz! Ebert was the FIRST movie critic to win one.

Armond White is the movie reviewer equivalent of Perez Hilton. They both seem to live for notoriety and will apparently do anything to accomplish it.

Posted by: snapnhiss at July 21, 2010 8:16 PM

Man, that's harsh. True, but harsh.

Posted by: Uriah Creep at July 21, 2010 10:20 PM

And this is why I try to Pajiba every day (By decree 15-298, I hereby declare that the word Pajiba may be used as a verb. So say we all.)

Posted by: Uriah Creep at July 21, 2010 10:22 PM

I do not know who this Armond person is, and I won't contribute to his Tom Cruise sized ego by doing any internet searching him, but fuck him for attacking Roger Ebert. I was pretty young Siskel and Ebert's show was on, but it was actually what first put me on track to making movie viewing an entire experience. I loved the discussions between them and they made me pay attention a lot more closely, paving the way for the cinephile (sp?) I have become today.

Sometimes I feel like reviewers now get bogged down in dissecting movies to their parts until it's no longer a total experience. Or, you get people like this ass clown who claim Ebert is dishonest, but he supposedly loves Transformers 2 and disses other very good films; he's either full of shit or just really fucking dumb. So yeah, enjoy your 15 minutes, Armond, you don't even deserve to breathe the same air as Roger Ebert.

Posted by: Even Stevens at July 22, 2010 12:42 AM

Anna, that link also demonstrates why I love Roger Ebert. He even semi-defends White, or at least his right to personal opinion. Oh but wait, since Ebert lacks formal training, I guess that means he doesn't count.

/sarcasm font

Posted by: Even Stevens at July 22, 2010 1:01 AM

I may get massacred for my opinion (I didn't bother reading the comments in great detail like I usually do so I don't know which way people have swayed) but when I heard that White dissed Ebert I just had to come and lay down a sucker punch on his ass.

I get that Ebert isn't the best critic and, like EVERY critic, he has liked a few craptacular films in his time (Speed 2: Cruise Control) but I don't think you can really argue that the man has had nothing short of an illustrious career that is due in part to his intelligence and what I believe to be a very solid education. I'm also not afraid to admit that I've bought a number of his books which highlight some of his greatest essays and reviews on what he believes to be the classics of cinema.

Yes, his television show spawned the thumbs up/down system but I believe some positives did come out of that. As mentioned above, he brought film review into the mainstream and helped it to be taken seriously as a venture of academia.

Now, as I've grown up I've ventured out of my Ebert-loving days. Perhaps I've outgrown him a bit. I look to different voices, ones I identify with more as I grow older and mature but I won't ever forget one of the reasons I'm a Film Studies major in the first place; Rogert Ebert. His reviews opened up a world of depth and theory in film to me that I didn't know existed.

He isn't the sole reason, but if I ever get the chance to meet Armond White I'll make sure he knows that he has given nothing to me and when I someday carry the torch of a film critic he will have done nothing to lead me to that point.

Fuck you White.

Posted by: citizen_cris at July 22, 2010 1:16 AM

So remember, kids. Unless your opinion goes right along with popular opinion, you are a troll!

Well, yeah.

I mean, I know the person stating this is one of the more prolific trolls on here, but still, that is pretty damn obvious.

You have to state an opinion viciously contrary to the popular line. That is, in essence, what trolls do. The personal insults and such are simply icing on the cake.

What trolls and troll-like induhviduals like Mr. Case like to ignore is that it isn't the contrary opinion that is the problem, it is the attitude behind it. You don't agree with an assessment for a film? Hey it is your right. But you gotta come with something better than just name-calling and weak reasoning skills.

And while brevity is the soul of wit, that doesn't mean the shorter the snide remark, the smarter it is.

Posted by: Vermillion at July 22, 2010 1:21 AM

And personally, I find it horrifying that White would sully the name of a fellow critic simply for publicity purposes and notoriety.

Fame.Whore.

Posted by: citizen_cris at July 22, 2010 1:21 AM

He's basically admitting he has no taste, for him it's just a old calculated job. Classic street smart vs book smart shit, the guy that's been doing the job's better at it then the guy who's been reading about it.

Posted by: SarahReznor at July 22, 2010 10:30 AM

I think he earned the right to share his opinions on film in 1975 when he won the Pulitzer Prize for film criticism.

Posted by: Horace at July 22, 2010 2:47 PM

Per the "winning the intellectual points" aspect that people such as Devin Faraci have brought up:

While Armond White proved he could speak with a certain level of eloquence on cinematic history or an unrelated film like INTOLERANCE, when he was challenged to speak on the movie at hand (INCEPTION), he either sputtered and deflected, or fell into self-contradiction (deriding Nolan's film as "adolescent" and a "video game", but defending TRANSFORMERS 2 as a film made by "a young American" about "being young in America"; insisting films should be judged only by their self-contained merits without any external data, before attacking INCEPTION with "dream movies" of the past).

So, by proving his sanity and intelligence, Armond White has only shown his hand as a bitter contrarian, willfully manipulating his opinions to poke a finger in the eyes of resented colleagues and intellectually-inferior civilians.

For the sake of legacy, he wholeheartedly accepts the role of villain: it is better to be hated than ignored.

Posted by: AAAutin at July 22, 2010 3:31 PM

Besides the Pulitzer, Ebert was also made a Lifetime Honorary Member of the Director's Guild of America. I may be misremembering, but I thought he got a standing ovation from them at the time. So the film directors of America value Ebert - I wonder if they understand film better than Armond White.

Posted by: Pat C at July 22, 2010 5:06 PM

Who the fuck would use more than one name? Jesus, even the trolls on this site are pussies. (yeas I know I am a troll but I use the sme neame for gods sake..
And Kayanne, you really just called the fucking morons here "The Powers That B"? Honestly, and I mean this sicncerely, put down the Buffy dvd, break it in half and use the jagged edge to slit your wrists. Long ways now :) Have a great one.

Posted by: Jack Random at July 22, 2010 8:28 PM

Having studied film both in a recreational and objective/educated sense, I have to say that Mr. White seems to be guilty of the same qualities as one of the last professors inflicted on me by a corrupt and evil overlord before I graduated from University...a man that moved his students to such heights of anger, rage, and disrespect that they have been motivated to petition the school to fire him forthwith for being an uninformed and useless armchair philosopher (The evil corrupt overlord/CEO was fired too).

This "professor" claimed to be an educated man, knowledgeable in his field...who nevertheless taught concepts incorrectly, punished intelligence and criticism, and would deflect any questions he received by ridiculing the student's intelligence or treating them with condescension, all to deflect from his not knowing the answer. All qualities I have observed in Mr. White's behaviour...I agree that the best way to deal with it is to ignore it; hopefully he'd fade away into obscurity.

Anyone can grab WilsonWeb, a dictionary, read some academia on 'Blade Runner', and then claim to be a "film critic" because they've studied it. The truth is that, in my experience at least, the best teachers (and the best film critics) are able to communicate clearly and intelligently without hiding behind academic language. They push you to think critically, but not inherently negatively, about subjects and thereby come to your own solid conclusions. This is what I like about Roger Ebert (and I disagree with him on occasion as well).

In summary, Mr. White is a troll with a thesaurus, but he's so lost in theory and pedantic analysis that he's completely useless as a critic. Even a high school essay you're supposed to be able to summarize your arguments into coherent points; my guess is that he passed Film Criticism 101, but barely. >.>

Posted by: DaftSteampunk at July 24, 2010 6:21 PM

DaftSteampunk

I LOVE your post, and kind of glad I checked back here to see if anyone was still commenting- Very entertaining and informative to read.

However, I advise you that I'm exploiting your late-appearing comment to post a way-overdue one of my own, one I wouldn't be posting at this late date except for just learning about this 'review' from a friend of mine who thought I might be interested. And it's the only reason I'm here now, because I'm not a masochist who wants to re-live every slight I've ever gotten in my life, though this piece kind of inspires me to get it out of my system.

***

For Dustin and any other long-time Pajiba regular/member/'popular insider' who cares to read about a (seemingly-ignored) issue that I personally cannot recall as ever being truly recognized, or ever even acknowledged, by Dustin or any other longtime commenter:

In regards to this entire 'troll' problem; their annoying presence, obnoxious and belligerent comments, flames and obvious 'anti-opinions' to incite hostile responses that Mr. Rowles so dilligently addresses in his aside of this review of the 'reviewer' (mmm-ookaayy), not to mention his oblique and non-explanatory explanation of the very definition of what a 'troller' is, along with the absence of any universally-accepted agreement of such definition even within Pajiba's own tightly-knit community:

The last time I came to this site was December of 2008. I was a regular commenter for over a year, feeling quite privileged to be part of such a mature, intelligent readership. I'd made two good Pajiba friends, couldn't miss a single review OR comment, and was telling every movie-lover I know about this geat place.

It pains me to be here even now, and I've no idea how this site has progressed, but I tell all of this to you now, or I never will:

Dustin, I miss your writing so much; I think you're a fine human being, and tolerant of much worse criticism than I could ever give.

You have no problem calling out the "Internet trolls" who "criticise the site" that compel you to respond in any manner you choose to, depending on the level or intensity of offense you personally take at any given time.

But my leaving this site was not prompted by some anonymous "troll" who wanted to incite an argument- I left because of hurtful and pointless comments from one of your own, a 'regular', a special 'member' of this precious club he appointed himself as, named Jay, an out-of-the blue diatribe directed at my personal writing style that focused on complimenting the fine reviews and writers on Pajiba- I "kissed ass" and "pandered" to this staff, which Jay so delighted in pointing out, along with every other character flaw he could glean from my previous comments.

I was quite prepared to dismiss this reader's unwarranted attack, but unfortunately, it only got worse.

When Brian Prisco, a reviewer I absolutely adored, jumped on the bandwagon because of one (out of a dozen) comment I made that, in a light-hearted fashion and which I felt was no more inflammatory or offensive than any other comment would intentionally be, he chose to eviscerate me in front of the entire Pajiba audience through one of his articles (maybe 'Eloquent Eloquence', which perhaps I imagine only for the sheer irony of it),

and these two commentaries were more hateful and nakedly spiteful than anything I'd ever read from a hateful, attention-seeking 'Troll' up to that point.

So Dustin, if you and your merry, articulate band of loyal followers/coworkers want to come off as 'victims' of unprovoked criticism and create a defensive posture, how about admitting to a certain 'elitism' and below-the-belt commenting style here in your very own house??

Maybe it's changed in some positive way since I last visited- perhaps some of the youthful arrogance that permeated and degenerated into self-involved online chat that had nothing to do with the review they were commenting under has matured a bit more.

Until then, I'll have to rely on my (still-loyal Pajibist) friend if I'm ever in need of any updates.

Posted by: TMax at July 24, 2010 9:22 PM

TMax, I once had one of the Pajiba-regulars call me out as well. The booze-hound. He was really super nice to me on Facebook until he found out that I had a tiff with one of his buddies, then he decided that I was a douche. He said that I was part of the reason he didn't come to the site anymore. He wrote a long diatribe (I was not the only target of his rant).

And y'know what? I'm still here. Because even though I'd rather just get along with everyone all the time, sometimes people are just assholes. I can be an asshole. Booze-hound can be an asshole. Occasionally, everyone is an asshole. You can either let those people chase you off, or you can ignore them, safe in the knowledge that you don't have to give a fuck.

So if you enjoy Dustin's reviews -- if you enjoy EE and Pajiba Love -- if you enjoy intelligent discourse -- then who gives a fuck what other people think. Do what makes you feel good and if other people don't like it they can suck a dick.

I hope to see you back here soon (even though your handle sounds like a feminine hygiene product).

Posted by: superasente at July 25, 2010 12:19 AM

Thank you for such a genuine, intelligent and non-judgmental response, superasente. I can now leave this thread with a good thought, remembering some kind words from an empathetic commenter- don't see much of that nowadays.

btw, I personally liked my handle, since it's a genuine part of my name. But not too long after I got on here, Pajiba started talking about some asshole named Tucker Max, which ruined it for me even though I kept it until I left- and the 'TMax' name does have a "feminine hygiene product"- ring to it, now that you mention it.

I appreciate your taking the time to address my thoughts, and I hope you keep on making the punks suck a dick, you eloquent word- ... user.

Posted by: TMax at July 25, 2010 4:53 AM

I have found a lot of great information on this site, I made a few summaries on some of the most interesting stuff I hadn't seen before. I think there's also a whole bunch more about this on Wikipedia, and and at this geekier info site so check that out too. I am totally interested in being told more about it so if people might be inclined enough to reply with comments on this page that would be brilliant.

Posted by: Luigi Fulk at September 10, 2010 2:45 AM

Piles are undoubtedly causing distress to many! Really good blog. I have just subscribed to all your feedback, I appreciate your content. Anything and everything to avoid surgery, don't you think? Cheers for the wonderful read.

Posted by: Lanie Schink at October 10, 2010 5:27 PM

Bu gün sizlere internetten nasıl ek gelir getirebilirsiniz onun açıklamasını yapmaya çalışacağım. Sanal alemde ek gelir demi olurmuş arakdaş deyip geçmeyin sonunda aldığınız para tamamen gerçek. Sim networking ile ek gelir kazanmanın güzel yanı ise bu yolun zahmetsiz olmasıdır. Geçenlerde bir arkadaşım çok prestijli bir bankada ki işini bırakıp sim networking işini ana işi olarak benimsediğinden bahsetti. Bende açıkçası merak ettim nedir bu sim networking ile ek iş ek gelir fırsatı diye ve sizler için buldum. Sim Networking ile Ek İş Ek Gelir Fırsatı

Posted by: Sim Networking at January 23, 2011 9:11 PM

Definitely believe that which you stated. Your favorite justification seemed to be on the net the simplest thing to be aware of. I say to you, I definitely get irked while people consider worries that they plainly do not know about. You managed to hit the nail upon the top and defined out the whole thing without having side effect , people could take a signal. Will probably be back to get more. Thanks

Posted by: increase serp at January 26, 2011 5:50 PM

Unquestionably believe that which you said. Your favorite reason seemed to be on the web the easiest thing to be aware of. I say to you, I certainly get irked while people think about worries that they just don't know about. You managed to hit the nail upon the top and also defined out the whole thing without having side effect , people could take a signal. Will probably be back to get more. Thanks

Posted by: increase serp at January 27, 2011 8:10 AM

Unquestionably believe that which you stated. Your favorite justification appeared to be on the net the simplest thing to be aware of. I say to you, I certainly get irked while people think about worries that they just don't know about. You managed to hit the nail upon the top and also defined out the whole thing without having side-effects , people can take a signal. Will likely be back to get more. Thanks

Posted by: increase serp at January 27, 2011 4:05 PM

I am so glad I came accross this today. Absolutely awesome and so true and i love it. thanks

Posted by: Nathan Miles at February 8, 2011 11:11 AM

You completed various nice points there. I did a search on the issue and found nearly all people will go along with with your blog.

Posted by: zero friction marketing at March 5, 2011 7:04 PM