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Do You Have a Tipping Point?

By Dustin Rowles | Posted Under Think Pieces | Comments (123)



polanski_gibson.jpg

It’s been a weird and kind of ugly week for celebrities. In the span of a few days, Lindsay Lohan was jailed for violating her probation; it was revealed that Mel Gibson unleashed a violent, racist, and misogynistic rant against his ex-girlfriend; the Swiss released convicted rapist, Roman Polanski, from house arrest after refusing to extradite him to the States; and even Ed Norton was reportedly nixed from The Avengers because he’s a purportedly a giant dick.

One of the questions that always comes up in the more egregious examples, like Mel Gibson’s rant, is how will it affect their career? Or even should it affect their career? I think most of us can agree that a celebrity’s personal life doesn’t necessarily have a direct correlation with his or her talent level, and thus wouldn’t have an affect on the celebrity’s performance in a film or television show, but the question often remains: Should we be watching their films?

There seems to be a tipping point when it comes to this question, and maybe that tipping point is when a celebrity crosses over into racist territory. Our hotheads, we seem to forgive. Druggies, no problem. Felons, whatever. Rapists? It’s mixed, there; many have suggested that Polanski has been punished enough; others say enough time has passed that he should be forgiven; still others refuse to watch his films on the basis of that rape conviction; and many more say that it doesn’t matter. All that matters is his work, and that’s all he should be judged upon.

But is that necessarily true? Should we keep the personal and professional lives of actors and directors separate? Can we? Last year, when Christian Bale unloaded on a crew member, it didn’t seem to affect either his performance or the reception of his films, Terminator: Salvation and Public Enemies (both of which put up mediocre box-office numbers compared to expectations). No one has ever suggested we stop watching Ed Norton or John Cusack’s films because they are allegedly giant douchebags in real life.

But even if we don’t condone the bad behavior of a celebrity, are we not supporting them personally by paying to see their movies? Does that matter? Why is it that people are less inclined to see Tom Cruise films because he’s a little kooky in the head (though, otherwise harmless), while Mel Gibson was able, fairly easily, to overcome his anti-Semitic tirade of a few years back? Or that Christian Bale was able to easily overcome allegations that he had verbally assaulted his mother?

I don’t know the real answers to any of these questions, though I have a feeling that much of it has to do with the movies an actor or director is involved in. If Christian Bale wasn’t making Batman films, maybe we’d be less inclined to see them. But then again, if he were making mediocre action fare, we’d probably be less inclined to see them, anyway. Maybe Tom Cruise’s crazy doesn’t really have much to do with the reception of his films — we don’t really want to see what he’s making these days anyway. Or maybe it does because his movies are marketed as “Tom Cruise” movies, instead of “Batman” movies.

What I do know is that off-set prickishness or daffiness ultimately doesn’t have a lot of bearing on whether I’ll see a movie. I don’t know if that’s a good thing or not. I find what Roman Polanski did to be deplorable, and I never watched The Ghost Writer. But I’ve seen a couple of his films between his sexual assault case and the attempt to extradite him. That doesn’t mean I condone his behavior, but maybe it does mean that I’m willing to overlook his repugnant indiscretion if it means seeing a well-made movie. I’d like to believe that I’d never watch another Mel Gibson movie again. But I watched Mel Gibson movies after his anti-Semitic remarks, and I am curious about The Beaver. It’s an interesting premise, I like Jodie Foster, and I think that Mel Gibson can be a good actor on occasion. I’ve liked many of his films in the past. But I won’t be sad if he never gets a chance to make another one again. In fact, I don’t believe he deserves to make another one. But that doesn’t mean I won’t watch it. It doesn’t mean I won’t separate his professional from his personal life.

But then again, why is it such a bad thing to conflate an actor’s personal and professional lives? Outside of Hollywood and the NFL, employers run criminal background checks and they check past references and few, if any, would hire a wife-assaulting racist with a restraining order on him even if he was at the top of his field. I wouldn’t buy a vacuum cleaner from a known racist even if I knew had had the better, cheaper product. So, why am I still willing to see a known racist’s film? Does that make me a hypocrite? Does that mean I’m condoning evil behavior?

I don’t know. Maybe I am a hypocrite. Hell, I don’t want to watch torture porn because the people in those movies commit evil fucking acts. But those acts aren’t real. And Mel Gibson is. Moreover, when I hear someone suggest that we shouldn’t judge an actor based on his personal life, I get a little rage-y at the idea that a guy’s real-life assholery shouldn’t factor into my perception of him. But then again, I also agree. But it can be hard to separate, and the more egregious the evil, the harder I find it to be. I thought Michael Richards’ turn on “The Larry David Show,” last season was nothing less than inspired, but I was also a little sickened by it and the idea that we could turn his racist tirade into a punchline.

All of which is to say: I hope Mel Gibson dies in a house fire, but I’ll probably still see The Beaver. I wouldn’t shed a tear if Roman Polanski lost his testicles on a rusty nail, but if he made a compelling enough film, I’d probably see it, too. But I’d probably feel a little bad about it. And I think that’s OK.

What about you? Do you have a tipping point where you’d honestly refuse to see an actor or director’s film based on their real-life behavior? Or do you think that personal and professional lives should remain separate, no matter what?










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Comments

In my case, I prefer the ignorance. I prefer not to know what an actor is like in real life. That way, I can enjoy a movie they're in without bias. If I find out that an actor is a sweetheart in real life, then I'm more inclined to give them a pass on silly movies or if they have less than stellar acting skills. If the actor is a racist, shit spewing asshole, there is no way that person will ever get a pass from me. No matter what I do, I will not be able to see them in a movie without thinking about what a ragingly evil person they are in real life or what awful things they've done to someone else.

Is it fair? Probably not since I don't know the person and I'm viewing them through their despicable acts. Nor will I call for an all out BOYCOTT of their work. Not everyone feels the same way I do. Some people are better at compartmentalizing than I am.

Forgiveness is key. If I see someone making an active attempt at bettering themselves from the rancid mess they've done, I can forgive it and move on. That is probably why it was easier to for certain stars to get over their past, seemingly career ending actions. Whether it was real or not, they attempted to show that they could grow, change, or move beyond their bullshit actions.

Posted by: Trouble at July 12, 2010 3:37 PM

This is a very good piece, and I suspect that it will inspire some interesting discussion in the comments section. I more or less fall in the same gray area that you inhabit, Dustin. I'm very quick to separate the art from the artist, and it bothers me when people say that they won't watch a movie simply because they don't like one of the actors outside of the big screen. I've watched (and enjoyed) Roman Polanski films, and I suspect I will watch at least another one or two before I'm done watching movies. I'm also very curious about The Beaver even now, if for no other reason than the role of a loon speaking through a puppet seems customized for Mel Gibson.

Like you, though, I would not mind either one of those guys receiving some personal comeuppance. I suppose I could help mete out that hypothetical justice by not endorsing these guys with a rental or a movie ticket and essentially enabling these careers, but when it comes to art that's just not my inclination for whatever reason. Perhaps it's because that I personally am so disinterested in linking money to either art or happiness. I would rather keep those spheres separate. Let the justice system dole out any applicable charges (however ineptly in Polanski's case), and I'll let these guys struggle with their consciences and public images, if such things keep them up at night.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at July 12, 2010 3:50 PM

Obviously there is a "tipping" point. It's just different for each individual and how they feel about any given celebrity. If it's someone we don't like, like Gwyneth Paltrow, every little screw up makes us rant. But even if it's someone we love there is a point where we will cut them loose. Imagine we found out RDJ was a serial puppy killer and used their skins to make a nice fur hat for Sarah Palin.

Posted by: EricD at July 12, 2010 3:53 PM

I don't know if I have a tipping point, per se, but child rape? That is absolutely a step too far. No, no. I recognize that I set a demanding standard, but a performer who drugs a child and plies her with alcohol before violating her in every hole she has is just someone I cannot support. One hole, sure. Two holes? Maybe. But all three? Sir, I shall have no further truck with thee.

Posted by: Tracer Bullet at July 12, 2010 3:58 PM

Then I would seriously have to consider whether or not i needed to purchase a new hat...

Posted by: PissBoy at July 12, 2010 4:01 PM

I love you Dustin. Srsly.

I said just the same on the Ed Norton thread and I stand by it...some actors...or the specific behaviour they engage in, deserve forgiveness.

The general opinion of Bale's freak out is that the lighting guy was in the wrong, Bale is known for intensity and lots of other actors agreed Bale was justified in his anger if perhaps he should handled himself better.
Ed Norton can be a Diva all he wants, I simply enjoy watching the man act. I just like watching him speak. If he never acted again and just made speeches for the UN I'd get very into the UN and just watch the man talk.
There's something about being able to see tht level of intelligence in a pair of eyes that draws me in.
It goes for a LOT of actors and stars who've 'sinned'

I am happy every day I hear Amy Winehouse is doing better, I was actually happy to hear about Lindsay Lohan's sentence because I genuinely liked her as a younger actress and the kid is 2 WEEKS older than me and it frightens the crap out of me that she's so wrecked when we where born TWO WEEKS apart.
I love Megan Fox's outspokenness because I just dig her.

But I wont listen to Michael Jackson's music if I can help it and only let my self bop along to Jackson 5 tracks because they happened BEFORE he started 'allegedly'touching little boys privates.
I will watch Rosemary's baby but I can safely say it's the only Polanski film I've ever seen.
I LOVED Apocalypto and yes I felt guilty watching it but damn it, it is a GOOD film.

I think, personally, each person forgives differently.
Some people will have such a ground in love for Mad Max and Martin Riggs that they will be disgusted by Mel threatening to murder his the same wife he apparently hit while she was literally cradling their child in her arms, but they will still see his new movie and will buy a special edition Braveheart DVD if it's released and wont even hesitate over the moral implications of spending the money.

Some will pretend he made Apocalypto before he got all jew-hatey and still enjoy the damned film.

Polanski should be sent back to Poland where by their own laws he can be chemically castrated for his crimes.

I sort of agree with Trouble, we should try to forgive where it's appropriate. RDJ earned his forgiveness by sheer effort, good will and an uncorruptable sense of humour about his dark days.
Charlie Sheen seemed to earn his forgiveness and then he chased his wife around with a knife, smoked a bunch of crack and makes more money now than he did before he CHASED HIS WIFE AROUND WITH A KNIFE AND SMOKED A BUNCH OF CRACK.

So yeah...some actors/stars go beyond forgiveness. Mel. Charlie. Michael(In my opinion which is not intended to offend others who disagree)

Posted by: Nadine at July 12, 2010 4:04 PM

I guess the key is as long as you're making quality/worthwhile material, I will see it. I saw The Pianist. I caught Public Enemies. I own Apocalypto.

Does that mean I like Polanski, Bale or Gibson. Not at all. I separate the art from the artist, knowing full well that it's a tough thing to do.

Hell, I still own Naked Gun, 1 and 2, in spite of OJ.

Posted by: Fredo at July 12, 2010 4:06 PM

I pick and choose based on the movie and the star in question. Would I see another What Women Want starring Mel Gibson? Not on your fucking life. Would I see another Mad Max? Probably. But that goes for almost any actor. If I really don't like an actor/tress it's probably more to do with their work (Barrymore) more than their actual persona. I always think to myself, "OK, if the guy who pumps my gas is a bag of flaming assholes when he's not at work, should he get fired?"

I maintain fairly separate professional and private personalities so I tend to take the position that what one does privately, if it has no bearing on their job, should not have fear it affecting their profession. Obviously this is extremely simplified and has any number of permutations and variables but it's generally how I view things. That doesn't mean I like or necessarily respect the bigoted, sexist, racist shit quaffer.

Posted by: admin at July 12, 2010 4:09 PM

Oof. I really don't know. I've tried to answer this to myself but I always end up not really liking the answer and what it says about me. Or does it really? They're just celebrities and actors.

Let's see. For Bale, I honestly didn't care. I know he was an asshole. I know he was unprofessional. But I let it go because I think he's a brilliant actor. And brilliant people are usually assholes with low thresholds for imperfection.

For Polanski...God, I don't know. I didn't know anything about his crime until after I had watched The Pianist, which I absolutely loved. And then I felt a little gross, but I also felt like...that movie was amazing. He survived the HOLOCAUST. So his personal life DID have an effect on my watching the movie...but what about his crime? Why didn't that affect my viewing of the movie? I think I just didn't want my love for the movie being clouded by it, and I stubbornly refused to let it affect me. But I can't help but be completely disgusted by him and I don't want to watch another one of his movies. I even tried to convince MrFig to watch The Pianist with me but he refused, and I didn't push it because I know why he didn't want to. I still think it's a brilliant movie, but I'm still confused as to how someone who could commit such a horrible crime could make such a beautiful film. It just makes me uncomfortable but I can't deny now that I loved that film.

As for Gibson, well. It's kind of the same, only that Gibson isn't a runaway from justice. Just looking at the guy disgusts me. But I'll still watch Braveheart if it comes on TV because I LOVE that movie. And again, when I watched it I didn't know he was an ass and now I can't pretend I didn't like it because of what he did. I won't watch any of his new movies because I don't think I can look at him the same way again.

I guess what it comes down to is that it DOES have an effect on me. Should it? I think so. I don't think I could look past it. But...I do.

Feh, I don't know. This makes my brain ache because it's contradictory and I know it but I can't really explain it.

Posted by: figgy at July 12, 2010 4:09 PM

I just wanted to add something. Gibson is a really strange case for me, though. Because while I still love Braveheart I remember when I watched Passion of the Christ and just wondering...what the hell is WRONG with this man? And I could barely get through that damn movie and I never looked at him the same way. Then I watched the start of Apocalypto and I found it so disturbing because of what I THOUGHT I saw reflected of Mel Gibson in it. Part of it I know was just me projecting my feelings about how creepy the guy was, but I KNOW that that wasn't it. That movie and Passion were just flat-out disturbing in their violence. You can't help but think of what kind of mind would make them happen.

Posted by: figgy at July 12, 2010 4:13 PM

Not my intention to come off as belligerent or some hardass,

but I will watch anything...ANYTHING that someone managed to visually record and release to the general public, no matter how disturbing or disgusting the subject matter OR the filmmaker is

Provided I have a genuine interest and/or curiosity in the film itself, personal taste being subjective and all.

It's pretty well agreed Hitler and the Nazi regime was a major fuckheaded monster that many, like me, have our own violent fantasies about taking care of if we choose to. But those newsreels that showed everyone the stark, sickening devestation of the holocaust- they're beyond horrible, despite being just another reminder of human cruelty throughout history.

They're also records that are nearly impossible to misconstrue when any discussion, for or against any subject, arises.

The "tipping point" is more or less controlled by the individual doing said "tipping;" there are so many more advanced technological ways developed in just the last decade to do just that.

Posted by: abliac at July 12, 2010 4:16 PM

It really is such a grey area, because "art" always seems to be somewhat of a reflection of the artist's personality, and there may be subconscious fear that if we like the "art" of a misogynist, racist, homophobe etc. that we are somehow approving of or even sharing their views?
For me, I have my own little system. I don't refuse to watch the movies of Mel or Roman, but I absolutely refuse to pay for them. This means I will not rent them, won't pay to see in the theater, don't rent on Netflix. If my boyfriend wants to pay to rent it or see it on the screen and he pays for me, I'll go with. That's his money. But my money won't go to them. I feel that, especially in the case of someone like Polanski, his movies SHOULD be seen, because many of them are so meaningful and inspire great discussions (Chinatown, for instance) but that doesn't mean I want to support a child rapist. As Dustin said, you wouldn't buy a vacuum from a known racist, so I don't see how this is different. I realize my system is probably morally flawed, but hey, at least they are not getting my dollars. I do watch it on TV, which technically you could argue I pay for cable, but I'm paying for a lot of stuff that I don't actually watch at all on cable, so I don't feel like it specifically contributes to their pocket.

Posted by: ninetwenteetoo at July 12, 2010 4:19 PM

ninetwenteetoo

That's a brilliant philosophy to have - it really accomplishes the same thing without having to actively boycott anything.

I laughed at the way you put it, but it still makes sense.

Posted by: abliac at July 12, 2010 4:26 PM

ooooooooooh Figgy you just made a LOVELY point, Polanski won awards for The Pianist which was a film totally based on and influenced by his personal experiences. Literally, his life made the film better.

Of course that doesn't mean his raping a child makes his films better but yeah, his personal life has already influenced your enjoyment of a certain film.

I suppose in a way the same goes for Gibson's Passion;

he's openly and devoutly Catholic and said he was making a realistic Crucifixion movie. I'm willing to bet a lot of the people who saw and enjoyed the film(you know, crazy folks) probably enjoyed it more knowing it was made by a man sharing their beliefs.

In fact the same thing applies to a lot of religious/ specialist group movies... people seeing them enjoy them more because they were made by and star black/white/Christian/Muslim/Native American/Maori/Aboriginal/Irish/British/Guido etc etc people.
Feminist groups might enjoy a film more because it was made by and starred exclusively feminists and dealt, exclusively, with feminist issues.

I guess, in any realistic way, it's difficult to separate the star and the sin. We'd like to separate Lohan from her years of drug and alcohol abuse but since turning up drunk to parties has BEEN her career and only access to stardom, we cant.
We can hope she does eventually separate herself from her addictions and issues and moves on but until she does they're tied together. We criticise her acting because all her recent attempts have come through the filter of her being drunk off her ass. So it's hard to say, I guess.

Posted by: Nadine at July 12, 2010 4:28 PM

Tipping point: Did you do something deeply criminal and/or inhuman?

Mel: Yes (criminal if he hit the lady; if not, he speech qualifies as inhuman in its racism, misogyny and hate). FAIL.

Polansky: Check and check. FAIL.

Sheen: Criminal on the drug count and the one-two-punch of criminal/inhuman for the wife abuse. FAIL.

Bale: Unprofessional, but neither criminal nor inhuman (he yelled at a guy for doing a crappy guy - guy was neither defenseless, nor an innocent bystander. Not inhuman, just a jerk). PASS.

RDJ: Criminal, yes, but the only victim was himself, so not inhuman - just self-destructive. PASS.

So I guess I draw my line when someone's actions cause clear and irreparable hurt to a victim who is not his/herself.

Posted by: Tammy at July 12, 2010 4:29 PM

When you can only see the actor and not the character they are playing then they have crossed the line. Cruise reached a point where I couldn't get past the craziness, Gibson has now reached that point also.

The entertainment world is funny, both Hitler and Polanski did evil things but both were also artists. Obviously Hitler is on a far larger scale but hey, let's separate the artist from the person. Personally I don't see that it's possible. Also, that's part of the problem as entertainers always seem to get away with things that the average citizen never would and those same citizens are always willing to give them a pass.

Posted by: surreysam at July 12, 2010 4:29 PM

I don't watch anything Polanski, it's been a long standing rule. The man raped a child anally and considers no jail time "fair" in that case.

So if there's a tipping point, he passed it.

Gibson has passed it too for me. To be clear, I don't feel anybody else should have to follow my rules. There mine, and pertain only to me. But I can't in good conscience support a rapist or a raging lunatic financially.

I can acknowledge intellectually that who the person is in reality has nothing to do with their craft. I could probably even witness some of their work and approve of it, in an artistic sense. But if I support it I clearly am supporting them in whatever small way with money, and I just won't be a party to that.

My tipping point hasn't been reached for Bale or Norton. As far as I know, they're just dickheads. I know a bunch of those in real life, and it doesn't cross a line for me, shrug.

-Frob

Posted by: frobme at July 12, 2010 4:30 PM

Everybody knows you never go full Mel Gibson.

Posted by: RD-DayJ at July 12, 2010 4:30 PM

I'm not seeing any more Andy Dick movies. That guy's gone too far.

Posted by: Harry Coverts at July 12, 2010 4:32 PM

*Doing a crappy JOB; if Bale had yelled at him for doing a guy, then I'd call THAT inhuman - but instead I'm just a bad typist.

Posted by: Tammy at July 12, 2010 4:33 PM

I agree with Tammy and surreysam. My tipping point is whenever I'm so angry at whatever it is that the person did that I can't concentrate on the movie; usually that coincides with whether or not he/she did something that actually significantly hurt another person. As much as I think Christian Bale and Edward Norton are jerks, the people to whom they are jerky probably walk away laughing about it and/or telling tales.

Posted by: Kowala1000 at July 12, 2010 4:39 PM

Tammy, I'll be honest, the doing a crappy guy bit is the best thing that's happened, EVER. You win the internet. Your prize is the Internet. And free reign to tapdance on Mel's shrunken testiclees

Posted by: Nadine at July 12, 2010 4:41 PM

I like Tammy's system myself. It's all about how you directly affect someone, and whether that person was a willing participant/knew what they were into.

And in regard to Polanski, I'm kinda annoyed that Scorcese, a director I've always liked, seems to be actively supporting Polanski. It's one thing to just stay quiet, but quite another to vocally and publically express support.

And major FAIL for Switzerland; not quite within the realm of sheltering Nazi gold, but still, why not wash your hands of this situation and send Polanski back to the U.S.?

Posted by: Jacktrade at July 12, 2010 4:47 PM

Ahem. I'd just like to say that if a person's professional career success were to be based on whether or not he/she had ever verbally assaulted his/her mother, I would have very few clients.
Physical assault? Objectionable, but occasionally satisfying in dreams.
Verbal assault? Who hasn't been pushed to that edge?

Posted by: PaddyDog at July 12, 2010 4:53 PM

surreysam: "When you can only see the actor and not the character they are playing then they have crossed the line."

Yes, thank you. That exactly what I was thinking. Now, there are actors who haven't done anything evil who I also see only the actor and not the character, but I'll just chalk that up to bad acting and them being cute.

Polanski is a special case. He did something highly illegal and totally reprehensible and ran from the consequences. He was in Nazi concentration camp, and that was bad. OK, so was my dad. It was bad. But drugging and raping a child and then living like a king in a chalet in Europe is not fair. Even if the victim has moved on, he still needs to face the music. I cannot watch one of his movies, because I can't get what he did out of my head.

Gibson, I don't know. I usually don't watch his movies anyway because they're not my cup of tea. If the law puts him away, I'll watch them less.

RDJ paid his dues and turned his life around, and we love him for it. If Lindsay Lohan could pull an RDJ, she'd be set for life, but I somehow doubt that will happen given her family support unit failure.

Posted by: BWeaves at July 12, 2010 4:55 PM

I think that, in the cases given, these people's personal lives do not have any impact on their ability to do their job well, and that is all we are really in any position to judge them on. I will not watch people's movies because I don't enjoy their performances/directing/whatever, but not so much based on what I perceive (based on the media, etc.) of their personalities.
I find this a fascinating discussion. Why? Because my favorite actor is Russell Crowe, and because I've seen a million times, even on this very site, people who say something to the effect of "[They] don't like him and don't want to watch his movies because [they] think he's an asshole," or even that they think he is somehow incapable of making a good movie, based on one incident, years ago, that any normal person would have grown up and moved on from (so why not him?) and normally be forgiven for. Never MIND him doing anything to the extent of a Mel Gibson or a Roman Polanski.
The point of fact is that none of us KNOW, unless we've met these people, or experienced whatever it is they're supposed to have done, and even then, it's an isolated incident. Somebody brought up Michael Jackson, and, well, he was acquitted, right? And Polanski did something awful years ago, before a lot of us Pajibans were even born, and we don't ACTUALLY know anything about it, because we weren't there, and we certainly don't know the extent to which he may or may not be really remorseful about it, etc.

What if there are lots of people making movies that we all seriously love, and we just don't know that they, too, are in fact raging assholes? And what if (ahem, Kevin Smith) there are people WE love that OTHER people don't watch because THEY think they're raging assholes? *shrug* There's always gonna be somebody who doesn't like you, regardless of whether or not there's a stain on your soul. So do your thing, I say. And if I'm interested in it, I'll watch it. End of story.

Posted by: Samantha at July 12, 2010 4:56 PM

Re the Swiss decision: it was based on the fact that a material document was not provided to them for review. From what I've read they didn't pronounce him innocent, they simply decided that based on what they were provided by the US prosecutor, they didn't have enough to justify extraditing him. That seems fair. And I suspect that it was the outcome of a behind the scenes deal to allow both the Swiss and the US to let this matter go without any loss of dignity. The Swiss get to say they arrested him and followed due process. The US gets to say they tried to get him and they can maintain their sense of outrage without having to go through the cost and TV circus of a trial. All is well.

Posted by: PaddyDog at July 12, 2010 4:58 PM

When you can only see the actor and not the character they are playing then they have crossed the line. Cruise reached a point where I couldn't get past the craziness, Gibson has now reached that point also.

That's my general feeling, too. Though interestingly, I find this does not necessarily have anything to do with off-screen behavior; some actors just cause this reaction spontaneously. I've never really gotten into Michael Douglas, talented though he is, simply because something about him makes it impossible for me to see his character. I can only see him, Michael Douglas, the actor. In Disclosure, when Demi Moore was all over him, I kept thinking, "What are you waiting for? Go for it! That's what you do, man!"

And like a couple others have said, money is also key. I wouldn't feel bad about paying to see a Tom Cruise movie these days because, though he may be crazy, he's relatively harmless. Mel is obviously a sick person and I'm not going to do anything to support him.

Posted by: Todd at July 12, 2010 5:04 PM

honestly i don't care because all i want is good acting and good movies .
If i can see an Hitchcock movie or a Romanek movie or a Fincher movie or a movie with Harrison ford( or Russel Crowe or Sean Penn or Josh Brolin) with their notorious "charming" reputation,i can see all movies (except bad movies)
I love Steve McQueen's movies and he was an abuser with women(and i'm nice with him here)

but i prefer a Christian Bale who takes responsabity for his errors(and i don't care about his family drama because i had enough arguments with my family to know how a family isn't the heaven) than a Polanski who though it's normal to sex with a teenager when he's 43!

Posted by: caro at July 12, 2010 5:07 PM

abliac - glad you got it, I realized that I sort of just farted that out stream of consciousness style and it probably made no sense.

But the system works!! : P

Posted by: ninetwenteetoo at July 12, 2010 5:09 PM

PaddyDog, good info...thanks. Took a quick look at the news analysis, and it looks like I was too hasty to blame the Swiss (sorry guys). Maybe I should have blamed the French (where he lives), for some of the official statements they've been issuing, and for their general view that b/c he's such a great director and it happened so long ago, it's all okay.

Posted by: Jacktrade at July 12, 2010 5:12 PM

I loved Mel Gibson movies in the 80's and 90's. Now I don't watch them and I refuse to watch anything new he does. Tipping point for me was when I found out his Daddy was a Holocaust denier and Mel refused to call him out on it, which indicates to me he agrees with his father. I can't get around that.

Posted by: lil_a at July 12, 2010 5:33 PM

The day I found out that John Cusack was a major dicknose was one of the hardest days of my life.

I was living in Chicago, and each of my friends managed to meet him. Some had good experiences, but for the most part, he was pretentious and condescending, which is almost worse than just being a rude ass.

Plus a friend of a friend hooked up with him and ALLEGEDLY he has nether stank. ALLEGEDLY.

I moved out of Chicago never having met him, and I think it was for the best. I can still love his movies never having had them tainted by his smelly taint his bad attitude.

That said, I can forgive a bad attitude. I can forgive drug problems. I cannot forgive rape or sexual assault, violence against women, or being a racist fuckface.

The struggle I have is this: when a person who embodies the bad is in a movie with someone who embodies the good.

RDJ is everything awesome in the world. He grew up, he accepted blame and responsibility for all his fuckups, and he's making the best of his life. He starred in a movie with Mickey Rourke, a man who once beat his wife and stalked her and is a known misogynist.

I saw it anyway. But I didn't say anything good about Rourke when I talked to people about it.

Posted by: Courtney at July 12, 2010 5:47 PM


Joaquin Phoenix is the counterbalance to this... We all know he's amazing. We all know that when given the right script and motivation he can move anyone to...what ever emotion he wishes, I suppose.
But now he's all beardy and weird but if he turns around and makes a decent film we'll forgive everything.

Charlie Chaplin....Charlie Chaplin didn't, ON RECORD, rape(well, outside of statutory rape) his teen conquests...but the man had an eye for the underage girls(and I say this as a fan of his movies) ...but at the same time he lived this alarmingly horrible life then all but literally pulled himself up by the bootstraps and forged such a career that there is no one in the world who is ignorant of the name Chaplin and the implications and associations it brings. Even his suspected communist leanings where forgiven by the US government who simply couldn't deny the power of his film making ability.

I'm not saying, I hasten to add, that in another few decades Polanski should be invited to the US to pick up a lifetime achievement oscar, not unless it's all one big sting to finally throw him in jail even if he's fucking 90 at the time.

But I'm saying...we, as a species, cant separate the art from the person.


In fact, even better shortening; Chris Brown beat and BIT Rihanna. Bit her on the FACE. Like a DOG.
He has been a pariah ever since. No one will touch or be near him and even the people apparently paid to rebuild his career are putting in the barest minimum of effort. Chris Brown is a young man who came from an abusive home. This doesn't excuse his actions but it puts them into context. He beat and threatened his partner, male or female, bit their face, tried to kill them.
Mel Gibson and Charlie Sheen beat and/or threatened their respective partners. The mothers of their children.
It WAS NOT THE FIRST MISTAKE THEY HAD MADE and you cant even argue that Brown screwed up early in his career so hasn't got any good will backing him to help him rebuild.
Mel was a homophobe in the early 90's, at least PUBLICALLY, as I can say nothing for his personal life.
Charlie has been a known druggie and whoremonger for decades, was anyone surprised he'd relapsed??
Polanski raped a child.
If we cant forgive a kid like Chris Brown for the exact same crimes, we cant forgive any of them. Personal or career, it doesnt matter. You commit a crime you go to jail and you become despised. You lose the rights to the money from your work, if your work is even released once you're jailed. That money goes to the people who's teeth you knocked out of their head.

Posted by: Nadine at July 12, 2010 6:06 PM

Sometimes I throw in my DVD of The Naked Gun just so I can watch O J Simpson get shot, stabbed, burned, cut, beaten, drowned, etc.

It's the feel good movie of the summer!

Posted by: The Mutt at July 12, 2010 6:09 PM

Ohmygod Courtenay! Mickey Rourke! You're spot on! Mickey has had this huge comeback like literally welcome back to the fold Mickey but he's a DICK!

Sean Penn is heralded as a genius but the dude beat up Madonna!
It's like because a lot of this happened during the bad rad 80's it's okay because Hollywood was wilder then and it was totally cool when dudes punched their wives in the face because like cocaine was so awesome.

Posted by: Nadine at July 12, 2010 6:11 PM

Tammy pretty much spelled out how I feel, as well. Spot on.

However, there's a bit of a twist when I consider Polanski's or Gibson's (or, whomever's) work before I learned of their inhumanity. I watched quite a few Polanski films (Chinatown, Rosemary's Baby, Macbeth, The Pianist, The Ninth Gate, probably others) before I found out he was a child rapist. Outside of The Pianist, I would have no problems re-watching those other movies-- The Pianist is just too close to my discovery, so I link them. I haven't seen his new movie, and I never will, or any movies that come out after it.

With Gibson, I'd seen pretty much every single one of his films up to Passion of the Christ. That movie alone made me question him, but then his anti-semitic rant occurred not long after and I completely gave up on him. I don't know why anybody forgave him after that, but whatever. I haven't seen another of his movies since. Well, except the original Mad Max, but merely because it was the only part of the trilogy I hadn't seen and I'm more of a completist than I am a moralist.

My point is, why should I deprive myself of something I enjoy when I discovered them well before I knew the truth about the artist? I can't retroactively go back and not pay for renting Chinatown or for dropping a ten-spot at the box office for Braveheart, and if I already owned those movies before the truth came out (or I found out), I shouldn't have to go sell them or throw them away. Damage done, by that point. No, it's about going forward, not backward.

All that said, I can't really even bring myself to watch any of Gibson's movies anymore, past, present, or future. I think it's because he's in them, and now I hate his face.

Posted by: RobP at July 12, 2010 6:13 PM

lil_a, I admit, it's easy now to see that Gibson probably denies the truth of the Holocaust-- no matter what he says in print, when he knows he's being recorded. But, it really isn't fair to judge a child for the sins of their father. There could be many reasons why a child doesn't publicly distance themselves from their insane, hateful parents. Love, loyalty, not wanting to touch the subject with a 10-foot pole, privacy, etc., etc.

You weren't wrong in Gibson's case, probably, but it still isn't really fair.

Posted by: RobP at July 12, 2010 6:19 PM

Fatty Arbuckle would have loved one tenth the grace afforded Polanski, Bale, Gibson, Lohan et al.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatty_Arbuckle

Posted by: Odnon at July 12, 2010 6:19 PM

I absolutely refuse to watch anything Roman Polanski is even loosely involved with. However I will watch Mel Gibson, Edward Norton, Christian Bale, and others are involved in. The reason being that although I don't abide major douchebaggery at their behavior at the end of the day is pretty much harmless. Drugging and raping a 13 year old girl is the farthest thing in the world from harmless.

Posted by: Matt at July 12, 2010 6:20 PM

Odnon, I was going to reference Fatty when I mentioned Charlie but I couldn't think how. You did it for me, so thanks.
And yes, perfect example.
He literally did NOTHING wrong but he never, ever got the kind of forgiveness others have since.
They're even on tape/video etc committing their acts of awfulness.
Fatty had two dozen witness and a judge formally apologised for his horrific treatment and to this day I have arguments with friends and family who see me watching old silents or when we drive past an old Fatty Arbuckle chain restaurant, will say 'he's a pervert you know'

Posted by: Nadine at July 12, 2010 6:27 PM

Here's a little bit of irony for those contrasting the wrongs of Gibson versus those of RDJ: Google their names together and see what you come up with. Mel played a major role in engineering RDJ's comeback, and RDJ has credited him for that on several occasions. I'm not saying that excuses Gibson at all. It's just some odd synchronicity in this mess.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at July 12, 2010 6:33 PM

With all due respect to a lot of the excellent comments (and Dustin's insightful piece), I'm not sure why Russell Crowe and Christian Bale are even a part of this conversation. If we move to agree that our tipping point is general asshole behavior, regardless of the depth of offense, then I guarantee we'll eventually boycott every 'celebrity' in our culture. Are these two guys assholes? Clearly. Watch a casual interview with either and you immediately get a sense of how pompous they are. Unfortunately, they aren't exceptions to the rule. If any talk show interns wanna anonymously share what many celebrities require in their personal green room on the day they interview with Jay, Dave, etc....please, send those details over. The nature of what most celebrities "require" while sitting in a room for an hour blatantly represents asshole mentality. Their shit does not smell any better than yours or mine. They have moments where they vomit, have diarrhea, have snot hanging from their nose and orgasm too soon just like the rest of us.

As some of you have pointed out, what's important is context. And Dustin's right, he's a hypocrite. Then again...so am I. So is everyone else that's posted on this thread. We all have our own prejudices that we either keep quiet, vocalize often or do what we can to change that particular view. It's just a part of human nature. Our prejudices are a reflection of our individual history from various economies and social structures.

Unfortunately, celebrities face a scrutiny that none of us can relate to. They live in a world where the court of public opinion and accusation damages a career more than any judicial system. That was certainly the case with Michael Jackson. Was Mike weird? Absolutely. Did Mike have issues? Clearly. Did he molest kids? I'm not so sure. And the reason I'm not sure rests on the shoulders of the parents of the accuser. As soon as the parents settled out of court, they lost all credibility in my eyes. It's in that moment you get a sense of how tragically awful these people are as parents. If I had children that were abused or molested by someone, money has no value to me. And if it does, then I've made clear that my own interests are more important than the mental, emotional and physical well being of my child and the justice they deserve.

There's another story that plays in to this conversation. I've posted the link below. What's the nature of racism in this country? At what point do we publicly accept the fact that people other than Caucasians are capable of and participate in racism? The answer to that question will be an indication of just how much progress we've made since the Civil Rights era. The link below contains comments by Jesse Jackson, Jr. ripping in to Dan Gilbert, owner of the Cavs. He flat out calls Gilbert a slave owner, accusing him of continuing the existence of racism. I'll be honest, my jaw dropped. The issues of racism, regarding LeBron's decision never entered my mind until Jesse Jackson brought it up. And I do firmly believe he's out of line. The notion that a white man can't criticize a black man without being accused of racism only makes the problem persist. And Rev. Jackson has now done his part to keep that problem alive. LeBron was not, at any point, a slave. In fact, the front office often made decisions based on what LeBron wanted. The team he abandoned is the team he pushed them to create, period. On top of that, LeBron James makes more money in sixth months than Dan Gilbert is likely to ever see in his lifetime. It makes it much more difficult to address Mel Gibson when an idiot like Jesse Jackson is throwing out, publicly, ignorance such as that. That's my biggest curiosity...how do we choose to address racism now, in 2010.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=5372266

Posted by: Barnes78 at July 12, 2010 6:44 PM

Interesting question. We were just talking about it the other day when I was whining how Crowe, Gibson and Cruise always spoil movies for me because their public personas have drawn enough ire / ridicule from my humble self so that now I have developed a sort of a reflex of instant recognition and association. I'm no longer able to dissociate these actors from the characters they are playing, which ends up being distracting and subtracts from my experience of the film.

My boyfriend then said this was inconsistent of me given he never hears me bitch that way about Polanski.

Clearly, I'm all for the view that an artist and his work are not the same, hence by all means put Polanski in prison if you may or will, but please leave his films alone. I guess the difference from actors is that I don't have to stare at the director on a 40 foot screen for 2 hours. Or maybe it’s just that I’m a hypocrite. That’s not going to be a problem, is it?

Posted by: SB at July 12, 2010 6:52 PM

SB, good point and pshaw, it's impossible to be a hypocrite on 'Jiba even when you're standing their being hypocritical about things.

I think the idea though is not to suddenly say 'Oh actually The Pianist is shit' but more 'my money is going into the pocket of a convicted rapist or at the very least, people who work to help and protect a rapist'

To me it raises that question about convicted criminals earning money from their crimes. By books they write or documentaries or films which are made, criminals shouldn't be allowed to be make money from the lives they've ruined.

Arguably, people like Polanski are doing just that.

If you want to argue it in a very roundabout way, if Polanski hadn't been where he was, since he ran away, he'd not have had the time and leisure to read/write screenplays, he'd not have been offered certain films and he'd not have made them, made them well, and made a profit.

Had he been in the states we know for a fact he'd be in prison. He may have gotten out of prison some time, even decades ago...but the damage would be done and he'd never work again, any where.
But he ran, kept his head down and made some beautiful movies.
Arguably he's profiting off what he did to that little girl by the sheer virtue of living where he does and his own reputation.
That is where I take issue.
Plus, and this is just me so please, and not directly at SB, but everyone; The Pianist, yes, is about the jews and the holocaust and it's horrible.

But I bet a fair argument could be made that for Polanski, a man who thinks 30 years chilling out in fucking European castles and decadence, heralded as a genius and master artiste...an argument could be made that the Pianist was just a little bit, a tiny fraction about his own exile 'now' as much as back in the good old days of the Turd Reich

Posted by: Nadine at July 12, 2010 7:05 PM

BWeaves, surreysam "When you can only see the actor and not the character they are playing then they have crossed the line." -- Yes, exactly.

Posted by: SB at July 12, 2010 7:07 PM

I guess the violence is really where my personal tipping point lies. I heard the rage in Christian Bale's voice as he screamed at that grip - but I didn't really think he'd kill him. I don't wanna hang out with the guy, but I can still watch his movies. Mel Gibson punched his ex so hard he knocked out two teeth, and on the recent tape said she deserved it. How can I watch him in anything without remembering that? I can't pay for that. I saw Apocalypto on cable - it was good, I tried hard to hate it, and I didn't, can't say Gibson has no talent. But from here on out, I'm not spending another minute on his film career. I don't want to.

But in the cases of Penn, Richards, Brown, Gibson and Polanski, I feel no loss whatsoever if any of them is heard of again - I realize that there must be a conflict if you're a fan, but I'm not. And I'm really glad that none of my favorite actors/directors have gotten busted for something like this. (Mr. Bale, thank you for not killing that grip.)

Posted by: Chickaboom at July 12, 2010 7:11 PM

I do have a question to add to this mix. Like Trouble said, if "proper penance" is served, does that release the offender in your mind's eye? For instance, if Polanski had served a sentence and then been released from jail and gone on to make more films, would you see those films? Would you see only the films he made after serving time? Additionally, if his claim of having made a plea deal with the prosecutor and/or judge, serving his time in a psychiatric facility was deemed to be valid and the U.S. declared that deal complete, would that make a difference as to whether or not you'd see his films?

Don't get me wrong - I don't think Polanski should have gotten off as he has. But nor do I know the entirety of all the circumstances or think there is any excuse whatsoever for what he did to that girl. I'm just adding to the confusion of where we draw a line.

Posted by: Cindy at July 12, 2010 7:13 PM

Chickaboom puts it better than I could.

Posted by: Nadine at July 12, 2010 7:20 PM

In other news: is anyone at all surprised that Whoopi Goldberg defended Mel Gibson on the View today?

Posted by: figgy at July 12, 2010 7:34 PM

You can't spell meltdown without M-E-L.

Posted by: The Mutt at July 12, 2010 7:41 PM

"For instance, if Polanski had served a sentence and then been released from jail and gone on to make more films, would you see those films?" I remember this issue coming up with writer-director Victor Salva, who was convicted of molesting a a 12-year-old. He served time, but I think it was a relatively light sentence. I caught some of his film Powder on cable and was weirded out by the scene in which the main character gazes wonderingly at his classmates in the gym shower.

Posted by: kronos at July 12, 2010 7:48 PM

Kronos, I didn't know that about Salva.

And now I can never enjoy that film ever again.

Damn it all.

It's like um...ooooh I cant think of his name but he was JUST in the news, Ferris Buellers principal.

I cant watch Ferris any more.

Posted by: Nadine at July 12, 2010 7:58 PM

What Figgy, ninetwentytoo and Tammy said. Tipping point: actual criminal acts, private and scary threats of violence and y’know, child rape. The Pianist may be Picasso’s Guernica made celluloid, but Polanski’s actions hang over it like a foul brown cloud. My loss, I guess I’ll have to console myself with the works of Scorsese instead.

I ignore or give a pass to most of what passes for celebrity “sin”, partly because they are human and partly because they live a public life that absolutely MUST fuck with their heads. The human brain just isn’t wired for fame. You virtually have to become insular in order to survive the bombardment of constant recognition and personal intrusion. Some try to change the world from their apartment in Paris, some disappear up their own arse, others self medicate themselves into oblivion. It’s less outrageous to me, than more of a sad expectation.

Actors provide a canvass on which the audience projects it’s hopes, fears and expectations and often those aspirations bleed into real life. When an actor proves to be something less than our expectations, feelings can be easily hurt and an audience can quickly turn into a mob. Tell me that wouldn’t breed a paranoid mindset? Audiences expect artists to be sensitive to them, yet they can be extraordinarily insensitive in return. While that doesn’t excuse the acts I describe in my tipping point, it does at least buy them a few extra credits.

Posted by: Squirrelgripper at July 12, 2010 8:03 PM

(Should be known in advance that I gave up on the comments half-way down. I will return to it in a moment.)

I listened to the Mel Gibson rant. I listened to the Christian Bale rant. I saw Tom Cruise hop on a sofa. I saw the Michael Jackson interview. I've seen Charlie Sheen's mug-shots. I've familiarized myself with Roman Polanski's history.

And I don't care at all.

Is it a problem? Am I a bad person? Hell no. I've never (threatened to) beat my wife or told her that she'll be raped by a pack of n***ers. I've never sprained Oprah's wrists or gotten a dozen nose-jobs or anally raped anyone. I've lost my temper before and said some pretty hateful things to friends and loved ones, but never to the extent that I couldn't repair the damages. I'm a good person.

And y'know what? A lot of these celebrities are probably pretty good people as well. I know it might hurt you to face it, but a person's lowest moment DOES NOT DEFINE THEM. If it did then David Letterman is a phillanderer, Bill Clinton is a liar and a cheat, and Robert Downey Jr. is a junky (someone gave him a pass earlier because his drug addiction didn't hurt anyone but himself -- which is bullshit, and you would know that if you'd ever known a drug addict). People are more than the sum of their parts -- I know that's cliche' but it's also very true.

It's easier to cast people in the role of a villain, never considering that there might be more the situation than any of us are aware. We don't get the most accurate story -- we get the juiciest story. And we feed on it with almost no consideration for what the actual truth might be.

I choose just to ignore all of this bullshit and focus on the things that interest me; the movies and music that are sometimes beautiful, sometimes harsh and sometimes horrible.

That's what I show up for.

Posted by: superasente at July 12, 2010 8:21 PM

@Kronos and Nadine,

Salva was actually convicted of exposing himself to a minor. Regardless, creepy as shit. He's the reason I can't watch 'Powder' or either of the 'Jeepers Creepers' films. Not only does he prefer stories involving young men, but the camera goes out of its way to gaze. As a gay man it disturbs me. And in all honesty, it's the same type of voyeuristic gaze that now creeps me out with most Gus Van Sant movies. The majority of films sticks to a specific age range of young men and the camera can't get enough of them. On top of that, he loves to use non-actors...you know, people who tend to jump in to an offer like this because it'll 'put them on the big screen'.

The Hollywood elite only likes to confront 'wrong' when politics plays a role which, of course, makes them just as hypocritical.

Posted by: Barnes78 at July 12, 2010 8:21 PM

Okay I'm a little fuzzy on something;

If Roman Polanski drugs and rapes a child, is brought up on charges and runs away to another country to avoid serving for said crime, exactly how has he paid for it and why should the passage of time count towards the lessening of said crime?

I ask this because when a priest basically does the same thing and is passed around from parish to parish to avoid punishment, it seems time has no meaning as punishment is still just as steadfast even decades after the crimes have been committed. The victims long since grown-up and "moved on" with their lives.

So what are we saying here? Priests should pay for their crimes against children no matter how much time has passed (as they should) but Polanski's crime mysteriously had an expiration date? And really what significance does his surviving the Holocaust have on the issue, as though that too gives him a free pass. I've heard many a criminal cry about a crappy childhood or other hardships as an excuse- it didn't move me then and it doesn't now. It's already been said, but if this were Roman Polanski, plumber, garbageman or accountant... there wouldn't be a debate. Somehow, people expect society to ignore what he's done and shower him with accolades, complements and money. I mean part of the reason why he can afford to hole up out of the reach of justice is because people continue to do so. You pay money to watch his movies, he gets money to stay wherever he wants, or even afford the best lawyers should the day ever call for it.

I've read his words on the matter and I am left with the impression that he is neither repentant for what he did, and that this may in fact not even be an isolated incident. But, he makes pretty and moving films so I guess it's all good, right?

Art contribution does not offset crime.

Posted by: bleujayone at July 12, 2010 8:29 PM

superasente, I take your point, but be careful about generalizing. I made the point about RDJ, and I'm plenty familiar with drug and other addictions. I'll clarfiy - I'm sure RDJ's actions had collateral damage, but the primary target and victim was himself; he was self-destructive.

Please don't assume I come to that observation uninformed about the costs of addiction. My point was that compared to the other who willingly committed acts of violence against someone, RDJ's violence was self-inflicted.

Posted by: Tammy at July 12, 2010 8:32 PM

Thanks, Barnes78. I knew I should have looked it up instead of relying on my crappy memory. And sorry, Nadine!

Posted by: kronos at July 12, 2010 8:36 PM

I've got a simple way to make a tipping point.
When they do something that morally offends me, I stop watching there movies.

Being a huge douche doesn't morally offend me, Christian Bale going off at a sound tech, uncalled for yeah. But listening to it doesn't actually offend me in anyway cause basicaly it's just a dude getting yelled at at work. Not really a big deal.

Telling your ex wife she deserves to be raped by a pack of niggers, or drugging and butt fucking a 13 year old. Yeah that offends me and I'm not going to see anything made by them again. (It helps that I was never really a fan of Gibson or Polanski to begin with)

Posted by: Ben at July 12, 2010 8:59 PM

superasente >> I'm not with you 100 percent, but that's well said.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at July 12, 2010 9:03 PM

Roman Polanski was making a film out of the country when his beautiful 8 months pregnant wife, Sharon Tate was gutted like a pig by Manson's followers in August of 1969. The killers said she begged repeatedly for the life of her baby son. They cut it out of her.
Polanski came back to the US and buried them both.
What he did to the girl was unspeakable, but I always think of this murder first.
Authorities claim that abusers were damaged by being abused themselves. The girl is an adult now and in interviews says she wants to put this to rest and stop being seen as the victim.

Posted by: Jamie at July 12, 2010 9:24 PM

Tip me over and pour me out, Mel. I'm done.

I thought you were so dreamy in Lethal Weapon. You were my teenage heartthrob. I had your face on the cover of Rolling Stone plastered on my bedroom wall.

As the years went by, we grew apart. You did some cheesy movies and said some crazy-ass things. I looked back on my love for you nostalgically - how silly I was as a teen. Apoctolypto? Passion of the Christ? Neither were my thing at all, so I never bothered with them.

But Signs, oh Signs. I know some Pajibans will scoff, but "Swing away, Merrill. Swing away." still got me every time up until last night, when it was on for the umpteenth time, and I saw it in the satellite guide. And I paused on it. And thought about Merrill and that bat and your sad sad eyes when the character of your wife said her last words to you.

Then I thought about your voice on that tape, and my stomach turned. I just couldn't do it.

I clicked away, Mel. I clicked away.

Posted by: mswas at July 12, 2010 9:48 PM

For about four years after it premiered, I refused to watch CSI simply because William Petersen was in The Skulls.

Posted by: Orser at July 12, 2010 9:57 PM

I think there's a different criterea for "stars" than for directors, or even actors.

See a star, isn't necessarily famous because he's the best actor of the bunch, he's famous because he's just so gosh darn likeable and relatable. People like seeing a "star" in a movie not necessarily because he delivers a searing performance but because filmgoers can identify with him/her, and a big part of that is based on how they are perceived in the public eye.

That's why, in an odd way, Gibson's screaming psychotic/racist meltdown is more damaging than Polanski's child rape, sick as the thought is. Polanski gets people to see his movies based on his reputation as a filmmaker, Gibson used to get people to see his movies based on his reputation as a great guy.

Think about what happened to Hugh Grant's career when he got caught with the prostitute. Small potatos compared to what some other stars had done, but it ruined image as the unlucky in love/ stammering romantic that Hollywood was building up for him and his career didn't get back on track until he played up his reputation as a rouge, rather than downplayed it.

Posted by: Irving Washington at July 12, 2010 10:03 PM

Well, didn't y'all got to the high-voltage place in a hurry. I was expecting more shunning based on politics, although that might be hard to do. This is a pretty Obama-nation community (

Yep. Your movie sheckles could be funding - gasp - a conservative. (Bum, bum, baaaaaaahm.)

Posted by: BierceAmbrose at July 12, 2010 10:06 PM

It's hard to separate the art from the artist anymore in this gossip-y, "I'll tell you everything" famewhore world. It's almost as if we need to know what someone is like ON THE INSIDE before we can fully support them. Finding out they are an a-hole is a major letdown.

I try to separate the art from the artist but then you don't want to put money in some a-hole's pocket. Well, I've resolved the issue this way, I will watch The Beaver to support Jodie Foster not Mel. I've watched Rosemary's Baby and liked it, mostly because the writer was brilliant (it's based on a novel), and same goes with Chinatown (based on a GREAT screenplay). Movies are not the product of one person--they are a team effort.

However, if there is nothing to recommend that movie except the a-hole artist (Ghost Writer, for instance) then I won't watch it. Sorry Ewan McGregor. Normally, I like your work but I've been really pissed off about Polanski getting away scott free. So no watchy Polanski for a long time-y.

Posted by: saphire at July 12, 2010 10:08 PM

I know I'm going to be skewered and grilled over this but....
Have we forgotten Pee Wee?
And what we see via press.candid phones and other tech is (to my way of thinking) only a fraction of the crap they have actually done. Stupid things like public intox, setting your pants on fire (while wearing them), just generally venting in frustration are a blanket pass to me. But, flat out evil behavior caught only makes me wonder what we DON'T know. And that scares me.
I also wonder if age doesn't play more into things than we are admitting. Until the last decade,Mel didn't seem to spew such insanity (maybe the church can declare an exorcism?). Losing his mind? Maybe.Do I care? not so much.
Drug and alcohol abuse? Whatever as long as you are not behind a wheel (you CAN afford bodyguards,but insist on driving?WTF?).
The studios used to nix this sort of stuff because insurance was next to impossible to get for "bad behavior in the public eye" celebs.
Criminal mischief is one thing.Stupidity another and Scientology is just laughable. Serious criminal charges (murder,rape,terrorist ties) are a whole nother ball of stupid.That is the kind I will not forgive nor forget.And it impacts my viewing,reading,listening habits.
There are just some things that won't wash off,no matter how much time passes.
So, saying these rather confusing comments, I have no idea how I would proceed to show my non support of their craptacular choices.
So, if anyone besides me can find anything worthwhile in these convoluted comments I've expressed that makes me happy!

Posted by: DeckOfficer!! at July 12, 2010 10:15 PM

Those of you who can separate the art from the artist might want to consider buying Manson's records (Charlie, not Marilyn) and Hitler's paintings.

Just sayin'.

Posted by: , at July 12, 2010 10:39 PM

I'm sure a lot of those Catholic priests that molested those kids were also great priests and helped a lot of people and gave great comfort to their congregations. Should their "indescretions" be taken into account when it comes to the quality of their work and public perception?

Fuck. Yes.

It's no different for Mel. He's spent however long preaching to one and all about what a super-mega Christian he is and his private behaviour is at total odds with that. He's a disgusting hypocrite.

Posted by: Ali at July 12, 2010 10:47 PM

That movie and Passion were just flat-out disturbing in their violence. You can't help but think of what kind of mind would make them happen.

Posted by: figgy at July 12, 2010 4:13 PM
---
Somewhat OT, but the violence was the POINT, I think, of "Passion." I think a lot of people have the impression that Jesus was this fey little goody-two-shoes with the frail looking physique and a halo, and "Passion" served as a reminder that he was strong enough to endure one of the most brutally evil tortures mankind has ever devised and then die more or less on HIS terms. (That's if you believe the Bible stories, anyway.) It was: Take a GOOD LONG HARD LOOK at what this god/man actually went through, and keep in mind he claimed to be doing it for your sake, in fact for the sake of the very people who hammered the nails in. People have heard or read that story so often, it doesn't even begin to sink in what a horrid method of execution crucifixtion is.

Posted by: , at July 12, 2010 10:54 PM

On the one hand, I don't really care about any of the actors in any movie that I see. I don't know them, I don't need to know them, and so I don't really need any of the PR machine. If the trailer interests me, I'll watch it. If I like the actor in a previous performance, I'll also take that into consideration. If there are unknown actors, I'll just go on the strength of the trailer/plot/cinamatography.

But since it's difficult to escape the PR machine, I do kind of consider what I know about the actor, or what I think I know. In reality though, what's turned me off a film has generally been the story or theme (as per your torture porn; I refuse to watch it). There are some movies I won't watch but it'll be a combination of because it sounds stupid/boring/insulting/hateful, etc.

But now that I think of Mel Gibson, I already found him tiresome (so SERIOUS! I'm INTENSE!) and had been losing interest. I think I knew too much in that case. So all this tirading and ranting won't make a difference: I wasn't planning to watch any of his movies anyway. It's hard to be excited about a movie by/with a man you suspect would be VERY difficult to live with. I prefer happy, easy-going fantasies.

I think I contradicted myself. Anyway. Short story: prefer not to know, one can know too much, in which case, it can affect my movie choices. But I suspect this is all subjective anyway.

Posted by: diane at July 12, 2010 11:36 PM

Wait. What am I saying? I know too much about him, i.e., the fact that he's a hypocrite, judgemental, extremist Christian, etc., etc. So damn straight, when an actor does something that conflicts with basic common decency, conflicts with my values, I'll pass on their movie. Sometimes. I think the whole scientology is a con and Cruise is a whackjob, and there are too many stories of harm against vulnerable people. But I feel he's been conned too, actually. Maybe that's why I give him a pass. I think he's got issues of a different kind. Gibson has been taught by his father since achild to think as he does. so, yeah, too ugly, too wrong, too messed up for me to want to spend my hard-earned money on supporting.

Posted by: diane at July 12, 2010 11:41 PM

I honestly just saw The Passion as torture porn. I liked Dustin's real-time review of it because it echoed how I felt about it: there was just no reason to show all the brutal violence. WE GET IT. I've said it before: one image can speak a thousand words. When you linger 20 minutes on a guy being lashed, you're not trying to say anything: you just want to make people sick for no reason at all. And I'll always believe that. There was nothing spiritual, nothing deep about The Passion. It was brutal and horrible and all it did was make me sick to my stomach.

And ever since I saw it I figured there was something deeply wrong with Mel Gibson. The way he talked about the movie and his excuses...well I started looking at the guy a little differently. His personal life CLEARLY reflected on his movies and not in a good way at all.

Cindy: I wondered that too. How would people feel about Polanski if he had served his jail time 20 years ago (or whenever this was), was let out and had made his films? I honestly don't know know what my own answer to that is, but I think a big part of the hatred towards him is that he ESCAPED after being convicted, which just smacks of cowardice.

Posted by: figgy at July 12, 2010 11:50 PM

(On his part, obviously, not on people who hate him.)

Posted by: figgy at July 12, 2010 11:52 PM

diane

I love how you write in real time as you're thinking! That is so damned cute!

Could we discuss our mutual hatred for the man over a quiet dinner? (unless you've changed your opinion, of course, whereupon I'll change mine right along with you, 'cause that's what a real gentleman does)

Just a cursory 'yes' or 'no' will do, I'll take care of the rest - I know how to contact people.

Posted by: Jamaican MeHawny at July 13, 2010 12:24 AM

Tell me about the personal lives of Gene Hackman or Dustin Hoffman, to name two.

You can't because they're actors who HAPPEN to be stars and they are known for their work.

Mel has only ever been a star. And their film image is part of the total image that is their real business. Mel's image is what he sells.

And Mel just tainted the product, himself. Personally, I think it always was tainted. But in any case? Mel's image is not only what he would like us to think and we don't have to look the other way. This was pushed in our faces and can't be unheard. So that is that. It's not our fault for being repulsed. It's a sign we're still human, unlike Mel.

He needs to go away and keep his poison to himself.

And he will. See, in this second one he says these things: "my career is over and when I said that you lit out.." and "I have no fucking friends " Guess what. Mel has no friends left in Hollywood. He was ALREADY fucked. He was blaming it and taking it out on her.

Which means he is not coming back from this, Gibson fans, the two or three left.

Posted by: JLRoberson at July 13, 2010 12:24 AM

The outpouring here could have been SO totally avoided if you'd just asked

"Who Doesn't Have a Tipping Point?"

Posted by: Late2thprty at July 13, 2010 12:34 AM

There is a huge difference between a priest that gives his congregation comfort all the while molesting a member of the congregation, and Mel Gibson beating his wife while staring in films. A HUGE difference. The role of a priest is to engender trust in your followers, to guide them in the way of the lord and to act a moral and spiritual adviser. A priest who abuses that power is betraying his congregation, his values and his God. It's not as if Mel Gibson has made a career making films about the evils of spousal abuse. He's made a career of being a violent and aggressive alpha male. You must be able to see the difference, Ali.

And Tammy, please don't take my earlier comments personally. I wasn't trying to make any generalizations or assumptions about the (then nameless) person who made the comment about Robert Downey Jr.'s drug addiction. I was trying to illustrate that drug addiction isn't an abuse of the just the individual; it is as irresponsible and abusive and balling your hand into a fist and smashing it into the face of a loved one. It is hugely damaging to family and friends. You (none of you) shouldn't chastise Mel Gibson for his deplorable behavior and give RDJ a pass just because he's sober (I'm sure Polanski hasn't raped anyone in the ass for the last few decades, but you're not ready to give him a pass). If you're going to stand by your convictions that harmful, selfish and deplorable assholes aren't deserving of your money or time, you can't make exceptions just because some idiot gets a role as a super-hero. That's horribly hypocritical.

One last thing and I'm out: more than a few people have discussed their own personal embargo on art created by the villains in question (even a few comparisons to Hitler have been made -- which is an entirely other brand of DISGUSTING AND OFFENSIVE). If you are so stalwart in your convictions that your money shouldn't be going to the cultural nemeses of our time, I will assume that none of you are going to ever buy gas from BP again. You're not going to shop at Walmart (even for that REALLY cheap DVD box-set). You're not going to shop for food anywhere but the farmer's market. You're not going to re-elect anyone who hasn't spent their entire time in office trying to end the war in Afghanistan. Because you have convictions, dammit. Nothing can stop you (psst, I'm tying to illustrate that we're all just cogs in a malfunctioning machine).

Best wishes, Pajiba. I've enjoyed this thread.

Posted by: superasente at July 13, 2010 12:48 AM

(psst, I'm tying to illustrate that we're all just cogs in a malfunctioning machine).

Hardly. We're active and aware agents acting within multiple systems both with autonomous agency and in aggregate. Neither our autarchy nor our accountability are absolute beyond what our available choices can affect. (Alliteration much?)

/Rant

My responsibility for BP's abuses, the current (or previous') administration's disaster-management amateurism, and even crazy-face Mel's ass-hattey is partial and diffuse, at most, this despite my slurping down rivers of hydrocarbons, paying taxes which fund the boneheads (for years), and even watching a Gibson flick or three.

I own my agency, not another's. So, on a jury I'd convict crazy-face Mel of battery in a heartbeat - that's within the reach of my arm. Sitting in my comfy chair, not watching Braveheart is a gesture assuaging my anxiety, rather than affecting, well, anything much. I don't think I'd deal personally with any of the usual suspects listed above, but withholding my slight commercial patronage in approbation is asinine, an indulgence, an affectation, even.

("Raising awareness" is yet another layer of self-indulgent inaction assuaging otherwise appropriate twinges of accountability. Symbolic action to get someone else to do whatever, because they should know better, or something? How arrogant. You want something done, do something - act. You don't like how the power-players perform, get yourself some chips and get into the game.)

Posted by: BierceAmbrose at July 13, 2010 1:37 AM

As someone else said: nobody HAS to see a Mel Gibson movie.

And now, no one but white supremacists and wife beaters will.

Posted by: JLRoberson at July 13, 2010 1:57 AM

@ Nadine ~ thank you. It was great watching you kick ass for our boy Ed today, too. :)

Posted by: Chickaboom at July 13, 2010 2:14 AM

This would be an easier question if the two main culprits being discussed weren't such singular talents. Each has his fair share of mainstream credits -- but then, nobody else is making movies remotely like Passion or Apocalypto. And neither, I would argue, is anybody else making movies like The Ghost Writer, a grown-up movie with a real budget that combines atmosphere, pacing, and genuine mystery in a way that I haven't seen in a long time. If one of their oevres is right up your alley, then "do you have a tipping point" is a far different question for you than for someone who is "meh" about either of them in the first place.

Posted by: sansho1 at July 13, 2010 2:18 AM

Aaw Chickaboom, dont you just warm my shrivelled black heart!

But no you did make the best point, I think.
Though Cindy raised an excellent question, is there a point, and what point is it...that we tip back?

A lot of people seemed to...not forgive Mel's 'sugartits' and anti-Semitic incident but since he appeared to be trying to make a somewhat light hearted comeback, with the KFC thing, more people than I'm comfortable with sort of shrugged and said 'Oh Mel, luls' (No 'Jibans, I hasten to add. When we hate, it's for life) which I didn't understand.
The MINUTE I heard about that and what he'd said I was of the opinion 'Oh, well fuck that guy then'

But yes, Cindy, your point, do we have a point when we say 'oh well you've served your dues'

Certainly with RDJ.
That man had an outstandingly public fall from and agonising crawl back to, grace, but since we watched him to do and watched him stand up and say 'Shit, I was SUCH a dickhead, lo, it is not even funny what a dickhead I totes was, for serial' and tell some honestly, very funny stories about his own addictions and rehab situations, we forgave him his past of being a a great big smelly junkie(if he doesn't have a bio out he should release one cos I feel like it would change my life)

Mel didn't really make any effort towards penance.
I think Family Guy parodied it best, (IMO) with their 'insincere' apology bit about Mel where he apologises to Jews for their sneakiness and evilness and big noses. Because really, it WAS insincere.

So yeah...if Polanski had served his time in a PRISON, not a mega pricey villa, would we forgive him? Would there be a different POV entirely from the one we have now?
Are we a forgive and forget society?
I dont think we are, personally, not on that scale, not for raping a child.
Saying that,that football player guy who made the dogs fight, Vick is a douchebag and while he's universally hated, he's still allowed to play football and makes more money than I'll ever see, per week.(though the people who protest and send death threats to animal abusers but then do nothing to child rapists can suck my dick, sorry)
At the end of the day, society(and I'm intentionally excluding the whole of Pajiba here) will forgive a LOT based on the specific celebrity and what they did.

Brandi/Moesha, killed a guy. KILLED A GUY. With a car. Killed him.
But she isn't an outcast, not completely.
But Nick Hogan may as well have killed his best friend, leaving the kid a vegetable, he serves some time and is allowed back into a car upon release and shows no sign of remorse.

Cheryl Cole/Tweedy/Malariagirl assaulted a toilet attendant, punched her right in the eye and may have used racial slurs against her.
She was found guilty of assault though not the racial stuff but now she's one of the UK's biggest stars despite being, at best, a mediocre performer, and a cheap, tatty ex-WAG with no actual talent of her own. She married a black football player after the racist thing(and anyone who tries to tell me it was anything but a marriage of convenience will be ignored), he cheated on her before she was THAT famous, she stayed with him. He cheated on her after she was a self sustaining industry and she divorced him quicker than you can ladder climber.
She was forgiven for the assault by the general public no other reason than some people just like her, against all my capability to understand.

The fucking POPE has been PROVEN to have moved and protected predatory, paedophile priests.
Not accused, not rumours, there are letters with his signature on ordering that priests known to have fucked little boys and girls, to move to other churches and a whole new batch of little boys and girls.
And...what? Sure the religious band argue in his favour or that the church preaches forgiveness but that doesn't change what he did and he hasn't been arrested, no major police investigation seems to have been launched despite what is in fact, an international coalition of baby rapers being protected by their religious leaders bullshit protection.
To finish out because I dont really have a point here, no one can bitch that Switzerland wont force Polanski to the states if they dont also bitch that ANYONE wont just go and arrest the fucking pope.

Posted by: Nadine at July 13, 2010 4:57 AM

My enjoyment of Buffy was slightly diminished after finding out that nobody liked SMG because she was a difficult divadouche. It's not like she's done anything in Mel Gibson's leauge, she's just frequently reported to be a whole lot less-than-pleasant. But because my love for Buffy and Buffy herself was so intense, that little doucheritardiness was enough to colour my experience.

Posted by: JJ McClay at July 13, 2010 5:02 AM

Russell Crowe.

BEFORE the phone throwing shit and just being annoying, ever since I was little, my mum told me about when she worked with him in her theatre once and he was just a dick to everyone and especially her.

NO ONE MESSES WITH MY MUMMA!!!!


Except my Dad, but that's in their vows...

Posted by: Camilla at July 13, 2010 6:17 AM

This is a really fascinating discussion. I am conflicted, because as an actress, I would hate for my personal life to be involved in the consideration of my performances. However, as many others have noted, the PR machine does not know how to stop. There are no boundaries with where they go. Nothing about a celebrity's life is left a mystery, which is so fucked up. I try to avoid reading about people's personal bs because I don't know that I think it should matter. That being said, I'm just as influenced as anyone else. Knowing these things does, occasionally, taint my view of the work they produce. For example, I enjoy the Mission Impossible movies. But I was so mad at Tom Cruise's unacceptably irresponsible and ignorant opinion on psychology/psychiatry and postpartum depression that I did not go to see the third installment. Does that mean I'll never watch his movies again? No. I still love Top Gun for all its campy wonderfulness. And if he makes something I deem worth seeing, I'll probably see it. I judge myself pretty harshly for it, but I do it anyway.

I also find it interesting who we let get away with what sins. It's incredibly subjective. Sticking with my Cruise issues, the only sins of his that have been mentioned are being crazy and Scientology (though the latter relates). My problem isn't that he's nuts, it's that he's dangerously influencing people on issues which he has no professional opinion. It is not ok to tell millions of your fans that depression is bullshit and that it can be treated with vitamins and exercise. If he wants to live that way, fine by me. But there ARE people out there who still look up to him, and follow his opinions. THAT is where each of these people scares me. If we don't demonize them to some degree, what kind of example does that set? "Hey kids, you can TOTALLY commit crimes if you are famous enough!" And this goes for all walks of famous life, not just actors/directors. Someone mentioned Michael Vick - he's just a very public case. I've lost count of the number of athletes that do illegal and reprehensible shit and get away with it. Making a fuckload of money and being a celebrity shouldn't exempt you from repercussions, but it often does. On the same page, it shouldn't necessarily hold you to a higher standard either (see Bale, et al - who HASN'T been an enormous ass to someone they worked with at some point?), but it does.

I think I've contradicted myself about 7 times in this. It's just such a tough issue. I guess the heart of the tipping point thing for me is what I, personally, am prepared to look past. And how easy it is to separate the work from the person doing it. And that is profoundly personal. I'm not sure what it does or doesn't say about each of us as people - am I wrong for loving The Pianist and finding it a beautiful, moving film because I'm upset at the behavior of its director? Maybe. But it doesn't stop it from being true. I really wish we could go back to the time before we knew everything about everyone's business so we could just continue to enjoy the work, like we do with every other walk of life. You don't know if your chef goes home and beats his wife every night, so you don't have to hate (or pretend to hate) his food. Would it change your appetite if you knew? Same issue, different medium.

And since I've lost any narrative thread I might have had, I'm going to stop here. Just felt like throwing into this one!

Posted by: KatSings at July 13, 2010 9:02 AM

Maybe this is just my perception, but I get the sense that there is more outrage at Mel Gibson for being an abusive racist than at Roman Polanski for DRUGGING AND RAPING A 14 YEAR OLD THREE WAYS!! Why the focus on Mel? Technically he has barely even broken the law and has just showed how much of a crotchety asshole he has become (I sense a strange bitterness in him). But Roman raped a girl and fled the country...c'mon people, these aren't even in the same ball park. Yet it seems in this article (perhaps I am being unfair or misread it) that Mel and not Roman is the pinnacle of the actor/director who makes good movies but is a terrible person.

Other than that it seems that you are unsure yet as to what to do about it. You seem undecided as to a definitive course of action. That is fine, but it lands you in a middle ground where you do things that you want to do but hate yourself sort of afterwords...I am very familiar with this feeling being Catholic...In a somewhat sarcastic notion: as a Catholic you can do whatever you want as long as you don't enjoy it ;-)

Posted by: Brian at July 13, 2010 9:24 AM

You guys know who's nice? Keanu Reeves and Sandra Bullock. Can we give all the money that we would have given to Mel Gibson and Roman Polanski to the oh-so-charming Speed duo? They'll probably just give it away, anyway.

Posted by: Kowala1000 at July 13, 2010 9:39 AM

Ok, so I just listened to some of Mel's ranting. What strikes me most is that people seem to focus on the racism (often it is called Mel's racist rant) and not the ANGERY DEATH THREATS AND BEATINGS. Anyway, he is clearly disturbed and she mentions that he needs medication multiple times...I would agree. He needs to be committed or in jail because something bad will happen if he isn't

Posted by: Brian at July 13, 2010 10:01 AM

figgy,

I probably won't ever change your mind, but think of "Passion" as an attempt to make a documentary for which there is no existing film or photos, only the written record of something that happened 2,000 years ago. It was indeed an attempt to horrify people; it's a horrifying way to die, something that gets glossed over and sanitized, especially in churches. It SHOULD be awful to look at. It should literally make you gasp and cry and say, "My God!"

And the historical record shows that as awful as crucifixtion is, it was routinely used as a method of execution to send a message to the rabble (the Bible notes that two thieves were up on their own crosses on either side of Jesus), and also that there were crowds of people CHEERING ON THE EXECUTIONERS.

See, torture porn isn't something Uwe Boll or Mel Gibson invented. The Romans filled the Coliseum by feeding Christians to lions.

Posted by: , at July 13, 2010 10:24 AM

The killers said she begged repeatedly for the life of her baby son. They cut it out of her.

They did not cut the baby out of Sharon Tate. That's a myth.

Posted by: Todd at July 13, 2010 10:43 AM

Late to the party, but a few thoughts:

If Roman Polanski had served out his sentence, I would still find him a repugnant human being, but would probably watch his movies. Plea bargains are part of the justice system and if his admission of the crime had been followed by an ACCEPTANCE of the punishment, even if I felt crime and punishment were not evenly matched, I would be satisfied.

Polanski's decision to evade punishment and make HIMSELF the victim of his crime was my tipping point.

Mel Gibson did not rape his girlfriend (as far as we know) but he did assault and verbally threaten her, so we now have a physical crime on top of rampant and public bigotry. All of that is too much for me to forgive, even if Gibson admits his crime and serves his sentence.

Finally, does anyone else find the comparison of Polanski and Gibson amusing given that the two would probably hate each other, despite their mutual douchebaggery? Gibson hates Jews and most likely denies the Holocaust while Polanski won an Oscar for a Holocaust film loosely inspired by his experiences. Ha!

Posted by: ferocita72 at July 13, 2010 1:23 PM

This is great commentary. I too vassilate on this issue, with one great exception: Woody Allen. He is an unfunny hack AND a child molester. Nail. Coffin. Check.

Spectacular Douchebags are everywhere, outnumbered only by ignorant assholes, so I really don't think their personalities can be factored into work expectations. 9/10ths of the planet would be out of work if we did.

Posted by: GinKirk at July 13, 2010 2:00 PM

GinKirk - I was wondering if I was going to read a comment about Woody Allen. I stopped watching his films after the whole step-daughter scandal, his films are too mixed in with his own worldview and I lose a little respect for everyone who's been in his films afterwards.
And Nadine - whoever PRs for Cheryl Cole should be charging millions for their services. That story about the cloakroom attendant has been SO forgotten, and yet it was such a horrible story, I couldn't believe she still had a career, let alone became even more famous. How Ashley Cole could have married her, I don't know.

Posted by: Ponytail at July 13, 2010 4:55 PM

You wouldn't monetarily support the campaign of a politician that has opposing views as your own.

You wouldn't buy a hotdog from a vendor you don't like.

Why give your hard earned money to damaged individuals who would use it to support a cult? Flee the law? Physically and mentally hurt themselves and others?

Life is short. There are plenty of starving artists that are genuine human beings. They need our support.

Posted by: IJ. Reilly at July 13, 2010 8:57 PM

@ Posted by: Jamaican MeHawny at July 13, 2010 12:24 AM

Hee! Yes, but we probably already know each other. AWKWARD!

Or maybe not ... ;-)

Posted by: diane at July 13, 2010 10:27 PM

I don't know. I can't think of anything these celebrities have done that was more reprehensible than what Spade Cooley did, yet I'll still listen to his music. Of course, since he's been dead for many years, I'm not "rewarding" him.

Out of curiosity, if a "starving artist" that "needed our support" was in a film with, say, Mel Gibson, what then?

Posted by: Pat C. at July 14, 2010 12:01 AM

Maybe it just comes down to thinking about how gross I'd feel if I spend my money on them/give them my money and making a decision based on that.

Posted by: diane at July 14, 2010 1:28 AM

Ponytail, yes, exactly!

I always make a point of reminding my family of it out of nothing more than bafflement when everyone talks about how nice she is.

I actually remember hearing she GLASSED someone when she was younger still but a mate took the fall, and the bathroom attendant thing was just another case of her being a nasty, aggressive bitch.
Now she's coy li'ul Cheryl How eeeey Cheryl!(that was an attempt at a newcastle accent) when in fact she's nasty piece of work.
Her PR people are clearly up to some dark arts to keep her looking all sweet

Posted by: Nadine at July 14, 2010 4:55 AM

"Out of curiosity..."

Not sure why you used quotation marks around the phrase starving artist. Haven't heard it before?

To answer your query I would not see the movie. I would go to a play instead. Tomorrow I will attend the weekly outdoor concert on the lake. It features local musical acts. I will buy food and drink from the local vendors. I will support my community instead of the crazed Couch Jumper's cult. Or the insane addicts who hurt others. Or the asshats who vocalize support for a pedophile and rapist. Or PeTARDS. Fucking Terrorists.

Doesn't leave a hell of a lot of options after that now does it. Big deal. The last thing I need to do is waste 2 hours watching Billy Bob's ex play Jason Bourne in 3fuckingD.

Life is short.

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I'm getting a browser error, is anyone else?

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