Pajiba

Oh god, I have this list too. My beloved Jason Lee, it breaks my heart everytime I remember that.

Hasn't this list been done before a million times on a million different websites?

Meh, none of them are remotely relevant.

/There, I said it.

Seeing how Caspar has first dibs on Crowley, may I be considered for Aziraphale instead?

"Here are three things people always assume upon meeting Aziraphale: 1) that he is English, 2) that he is very intelligent, and 3) that he is gayer than a tree full of monkeys high on nitrous oxide."

I can definitely pull that off.

Though you know that if this film is successful it means more money for Xenu...

Shonda, hate to bust your bubble, but Gaiman and Palmer got married already. They both tweeted about it. I have some friends who know Amanda through Brian Viglione, so they shared with me when the pics and story hit the web.

I kinda knew most of these on the list, but Gaiman surprised me. I didn't think Scientology was so old that he could be "born into it."

CAT POWER? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Jason Dohring's Wikipedia page used to mention he was a Scientologist, yet no longer does so. I have hope.

Neil Gaiman is not a Scientologist:

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2010/07/04/the-bbc-interviews-neil-gaiman-about-books-comics-and-scientology/

In a New Yorker interview in 2010, Gaiman said that he is no longer a Scientologist, but he has ties to it as some of his family members still are and because he identifies with anything being persecuted. Or something. I got to the part where he said he was no longer a Scientologist and I was so overwhelmed with relief that I can't remember what the rest of the article said about it.

Also, I misspelled Scientologist the first time as ScienTOOLogist (emphasis added) and I think I like that spelling better.

Christ, give me a heart attack about Gaiman why don't you? Phew.

Feel compelled to mention (not as a defense of Scientology, which is indeed bugfuck crazy) that everything you say about it, you can say about almost every other religion also. Yes, everything. They're all guilty of exploiting people, abusing people, preying on people's emotional vulverability, etc. They all suck money out of their adherents. Scientoligists call it auditing or whatever, Christians call it tithing. They all encourage their believers to avoid or shun non-believers. They all have hierarchies that reward bad behavior (or at least punish it selectively) and discourage doubt and questioning authority.

Scientology is not uniquely nefarious or damaging. If people would stop saying that, maybe it would deprive Scientologists of their persecution complex, at least. If you treat Scientology as the silly psychological crutch that it is instead of some giant, threatening entity, maybe it would actually be less attractive to people.

What's amusing is how Scientologists actually seem to believe they've discovered something new. Sounds like the same old shit to me.

Didn't Jason Lee pull co-star Ethan Suplee into the darkness, too? I seem to remember something along those lines.
It makes some sense, because the quivering spider-ball of Randy has to have stemmed from some real-world source...

Slash, sorry, but I can't be a relativist about these nutjobs. I'm Catholic and, while we do have our huge and oft-discussed problems, we have been around for centuries, have a long cultural history, and do not tithe (all donations are voluntary, though I think they do tithe in the cray-cray Opus Dei sect). Other legitimate religions - Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, hell even Mormonism - are engaged in the larger world. Scientology is all about the individual and has very little concern for larger issues.

It's known as a cult rather than a religion in other countries for a reason.

Phew about Gainman, who is VERY relevant, BS!

I'm also bothered by Erica Christensen. I watch Parenthood and it bothers me every time she is on screen. She was also raised in the "church" too, so I guess that's her excuse.

I didn't realise Jason Dohring was, ya know, one of them, but it totally makes sense.

I always got a creepy vibe from the guy but I'd just assumed it was because I didn't believe his whiny, self-entitled character deserved a sweet, sassy, smokin'-hot girl like Veronica ... and, um, perhaps my latent jealousy played a factor too!

Of course now I know for certain that I had every reason to be worried!

Those nutjobs transformed achingly pretty Katie Holmes into Skeletor.

I couldn't bare(or is it bear?) to see radiant Kristen morph into Mumra!

"Scientology is not uniquely nefarious or damaging. If people would stop saying that, maybe it would deprive Scientologists of their persecution complex, at least. If you treat Scientology as the silly psychological crutch that it is instead of some giant, threatening entity..,"
Posted by: Slash at February 25, 2011 10:55 AM

Mmmm...yeah, about that:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Freakout

http://www.chillingeffects.org/dmca512/notice.cgi?NoticeID=232

What was that?

That freaked me out. Actors aren't a big deal because I like them for pretending to be someone else, not for who they actually are. But Neil Gaiman's work has changed my life. Glad to see he's not into it anymore according to the comments.

And then there's the fact that while the organization is shady, I'm sure the average Scientologist is a fairly normal person who's into something that I'm not. So I have some prejudice to reign in.

Fuck. Not Neil Gaiman!
I did not know that. Fuck man

Scully - I was a little inflammatory up there with "makes sense for a new religion to do so". What I really meant was that Scientology acts in a medieval fashion in the 21st century. And, I must add, a lot of their beliefs make about as much sense as the ones people had 600 or 700 years ago. I know I have trouble with people who take the Bible literally and I have enough trouble to go around for anyone who takes all of a religion's mythos literally. Of course, in all cases except Scientology, I can learn the fairy tales for free.

Poor Jason Lee.

Ugh. Seriously what is wrong with these people. It is so fucking backwards I just don't get it.

Gaiman? Whaa?? Though now my faith is restored to see he has since left the fold.

Juliette Lewis must renounce if she is ever to become my BFF in reality (and not just in my slighly feverish daydreams).

@Circe - Dohring gave an interview just a couple of years ago to Scientology's 'Celebrity' magazine (they don't even make a secret of the fact that they actively recruit high profile members, do they?) and it's full of COS jargon. Chills, chills, chills. [url]http://www.scientology.cc/articles/804291221291.vm[/url].

I have to admit I'm disappointed when anyone I like turns out to be an ardent follower of any religion (Zach Levi from 'Chuck' comes to mind). I try not to be judgmental, but as an atheist whose closest thing to a favorite sermon is Patton Oswalt's 'Sky Cake' bit, it's really difficult for me to reconcile blind faith and intelligence in people I admire, so I try to ignore it as best I can where possible. Just typing that, I'm sure I'm offending some fellow Pajibans, and that's honestly not my intention - just sharing my two cents. Having grown up Catholic, many of my friends still believe and we manage to make it work. And hey, they used to equate atheism with devil worship, so I don't feel too badly about my inner conflict.

That being said, Beck, Juliette Lewis, the Ribisi twins, Jason Lee, Jennifer Aspen and Erica Chirstensen all break my heart. And Katie Holmes, because I feel like she's been in a prolonged hostage situation for the past however many years. I had no idea Laura Prepon was one (according to Wikipedia). Cruise is batshit in all respects, and I just feel sorry for Travolta. I hope one day he's able to break off and lets his freak flag fly.

Trying again with the Dohring interview:

http://www.scientology.cc/articles/804291221291.vm

I second the Masterson. Both Chris and Danny would be much more bangable without the Scientology thing.

But.. but...it is different. That's the issue.

Nevermind. I can't discuss something, if you refuse to acknowledge reason; furthermore, just because you are democratically-entitled to have an opinion does not automatically make your conclusions correct.

wow, Neil Gaiman wasn't just born into scientology, his father was a hoity toit in scientology's intelligence bureau:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Gaiman

creepy creepy creepy

RE Julien: "But.. but...it is different. That's the issue. Nevermind. I can't discuss something, if you refuse to acknowledge reason; furthermore, just because you are democratically-entitled to have an opinion does not automatically make your conclusions correct."

No, it isn't different. See, I can do it, too.

I guess you're right, you can't discuss something.

It's cool. I don't need you to agree with me. I'm not a Scientologist. I don't need someone to parrot my conclusions back to me for me to have confidence in them. You can think the Scientologists are a unique evil all you want. It's a (semi) free country.

It is amusing how religious adherents (not that I assume you are one, just making an observation) are so blind to the shortcomings of their own religious traditions, and at the same time so dead set against those of another religion. Just because Christianity no longer does (openly and in a widespread manner) what Scientology does now doesn't mean it isn't also harmful. When Scientology gets the support of powerful government interests in order to enforce their goofy world view, then I'll worry about them. When Scientology gets various school boards to approve or reject textbooks because they follow/don't follow Scientology's tenets, I'll worry. When our government makes L. Ron Hubbard's birthday a national holiday, I'll share other people's concerns about it. Until then, I can't agree that they are worse than the others.

two turntables and an audit machine.... makes me so sad.

I also wish Will Smith weren't one. They can keep his kids and wife, just give me Big Willy.

jesus christ, NEIL GAIMAN?!?!?! (which can be read two ways, now that i think of it.)

this makes me very, very sad.

"It is amusing how religious adherents (not that I assume you are one, just making an observation) are so blind to the shortcomings of their own religious traditions, and at the same time so dead set against those of another religion."

I find it amusing how atheists like yourself consistently lump religions together, i.e. "Christianity", as though there weren't Baptists, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, etc. - all with quite different dogma (jury's still out as to whether Catholics are Christians, which conveniently permits me to disavow any connection to the fundies - yay!). I find it equally amusing that atheists like yourself consider all religions "equally crazy." How intellectually convenient and, frankly, lazy.

I am not blind to my religion's shortcomings and happily acknolwedge the integrity of other religions (even if I don't believe in them). I, along with many, many others, consider Scientology to be more of a cult than anything else.

Sorry...

RE samantha t
I find it amusing how atheists like yourself consistently lump religions together, i.e. "Christianity", as though there weren't Baptists, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, etc. - all with quite different dogma (jury's still out as to whether Catholics are Christians, which conveniently permits me to disavow any connection to the fundies - yay!). I find it equally amusing that atheists like yourself consider all religions "equally crazy." How intellectually convenient and, frankly, lazy.

The dogma all looks the same to me. You may think the differences are significant, but to me, they're not. In the least. When I see/hear religious people having a discussion/debate/argument about some point of religious dogma, it sounds exactly the same to me as when I hear nerds arguing about the lesser-known plot points of "Star Wars" or "Star Trek."

And they are all also equally crazy, in the sense that they encourage belief in things that don't exist for the promise of everlasting life or somesuch. Whether the power they worship is named God or Jesus or Yahweh or L. Ron Hubbard, or whoever, it's equally nonsensical to me. I certainly don't expect you to agree. Most religious people (or people who claim religious beliefs) can't be expected to react well when someone tells them their beliefs are silly. What's really lazy is believing something simply because other people have told you it is so, but if that's what you want to do with your time, cool.

Thunderdome!

I'd be a lot more understanding of Gaiman no longer being in the church but keeping silent for his family's sake if it weren't for for the fact that he donates unholy sums of money to them (and that the Scientology donor lists don't include people who later left the church). And that at least as late as in the mid-oughts he was still listed as a Patron, which is only for high-ranking members in the church, even though he claims to have left in the early 80s. And that he's allowed to see his family at all, when the normal methodology is to cut people off when they leave.

Gaiman's still a Scientologist. I may think Tom Cruise is, well, Tom Cruise Crazy, but at least he's honest about it.

except scientology isn't a religion, it's a weird, paranoid money grubbing cult

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Can someone explain to me how Scientology is even a religion? It seems to fit the characteristics of a cult.

Neil Gaiman? I was unaware.

Elizabeth Moss hurts the most. Look at that goofy picture. She's spectacular! I adore her.

uhm... how did Jeffrey Tambor not make this list?

"People We Wish Weren't Jews Because We Really Like Them"

Or Muslims, or Christians, or Jains or Scientologists.
Doesn't anyone else see the problem with this article?

Fake Ian: YOU ARE FAKE.

Gaiman is a practising Scientologist and the heir to a multi-million dollar G&G vitamin fortune founded by his parents. (He will NEVER come out and admit his ties to the cult publicly - too much money at stake to lose). G&G and David Gaiman were investigated during the Chernobyl disaster for experimenting with vitamin treatments gone awry for children who were injured during Chernobyl. Gaiman's sister Lizzy Calcioli in East Grinstead is the HEAD of RECRUITING for Scientology worldwide. Amanda Palmer - Gaiman's (wife? who knows really) is also from a rooted Scientologist family. These two have made it a priority to reach out to teenagers and other susceptible youngsters. Keep investigating their deep ties to the cult of Scientology - there is a LOT more darkness there.

@Idleprimate Take your head out of your ass and do some research - David Gaiman, Lizzy Calcioli, East Grinstead, G&G Vitamins, Chernobyl, exclusive Vitamin suppliers for Scientology, David Miscavige and Neil Gaiman. Look at the Scientology patronage/donor lists. Neil's not gonna come out and tell you, you know.

He'll never come out and say he's not a Scientologist. (He's reading this thread now.) He can't or won't - he'll link to something or offer a carefully-worded, evasive denial. He and Amanda are trying to have it both ways - huge Scientology-ginned up audiences without accountability for cult-involvement and the horrible consequences.

well, friendly fuckbag Josh, I'm sorry my head was up my ass, that happens sometimes when you aren't chasing conspiracy theories.

i didn't fight any fact, I asked for confirmation.

You may know more than i do, or you may be shouting bull puckey, but you are a fucking asshole for shitting on me for asking a question, so in the most polite manner i can assume, fuck yourself.

Wait, that was to quiet and composed, GO FUCK YOURSELF. there, that's better.

@Idleprimate Sorry kiddo - that was really uncalled for - long day. But I urge you to do some research on your own - it's all out there in the public domain you know. Lots and lots of deflecting, conjurer's smoke from the Gaiman/Palmer camp - but people are getting curious about the extent of their involvement with the cult. Really curious.

If you haven't already found it, you could start here, idleprimate. There's some chatter to sift through and they have some external links. I wouldn't say it's exactly concrete evidence, though.

And to clarify, I should have said that Tori Amos and Cat Power are alleged members. Tori admits to taking their courses and such, but denies any affiliation now. Cat Power is just presumed to be one because she was (or still is) dating Giovanni Ribisi and toured with Juliette Lewis.

Meredith, have you read any of the incriminating reports? Are you familiar with the Rehabilitation Project Force? Have you ever heard of Lisa McPherson or Uwe Stuckenbrock? Do you know what the accusations are against David Miscavige? Did you know about the Scientologists in France who were convicted of fraud? This is a bit more complicated than not liking someone because they don't have the same religion as you. This is about avoiding giving money to people who are funding a cult that does terrible things to its non-celebrity members. I apologize in advance if this comes off rude or hostile, as these threads tend to get heated. There's just a lot of information that puts Scientology in pretty stark contrast to other religions.

hey josh, thanks for being really nice about my own rash outburst, and apologies for insults. I'm still looking into it.

unfortunately I have been reading entirely too much about scientology 'operations'. its all horrifying.

it still doesn't clarify Neil

I think two of the things that should be immediate red flags to anybody glancing at Scientology are:-

Continually asserting their designs on conquering the world and introducing LRH tech to every svhool on the planet

Continually asserting their desire to destroy psychiatry and crush everybody in the medically legitimate mental health fields.

ALARM ALARM. CULT DETECTED. ALARM ALARM.

Jury's still out as to whether Catholics are Christians.

Someone wrote that above. It made me laugh. Because no it isn't, and anyone who says differently lacks even the most basic understanding of Christian beliefs. Until Catholics start chanting CTHULHU FHTAGN like our resident Zeppellin fan, then yes -- they're Christian.

Y'know, religious debates are fun. But only when you're not debating with complete fucking idiots.

Gaiman has NOT left Scientology. If he had, he would be disconnected from his siblings who are high up in the cult. In Scientology you are either IN or OUT, and Gaiman is IN!

Neil Gaiman is underwriting Scientology. The Scientologist’s list Neil Gaiman in the Cornerstone Newsletter along with Mary Gaiman, as contributing $35,000.00 in 2009. Being listed in the Cornerstone Newsletter means you are in good-standing with the cult.

In 2010, Mary Gaiman was awarded the "Gold Humanitarian Award" for her contribution of $500,000.00 to Scientology. This is significant because Mary Gaiman continues to be Neil Gaiman’s business partner in The Blank Corporation, which is now Neil Gaiman's Scientology front and how he pays the cult.

Gaiman is also the "Vitamin Heir" of Scientology. The Gaiman family owns G&G Vitamins which reaps 6 million a year from selling The Purification Rundown Vitamins.

Gaiman's two sisters, Claire Edwards and Lizzie Calciole are not just high-ranking Scientologists, they are the head of RECRUITING and the head of Wealden House, the Scientology stronghold in East Grinstead. These two cannot associate with Neil unless he is in good standing.

Amanda Palmer would not be allowed anywhere near this royal family of Scientology unless she was also a Scientologist.

Let's calm down, shall we? Can this not become a "9/11 was an inside job" (it might have been) or a Zionist conspiracy (not happening). I think attacking/boycotting everything these people do is tantamount to blaming every Christian for the Inquisition, every protestant for the Nazis. Some of these people were born in, some joined up, but they are simply members of a church. 90% of people don't join religions or organizations in order to take over the world. I think the pope and his cronies are deluded, possibly awful people. My family are Catholic. They are not deranged or power-mad. They are just people trying to get through the day. For some, much like Mormonism or Jehovah's Witnesses, the "curing" gay thing was the attraction. The need to be someone else. For others, the anti-reporter message is attractive. The paparazzi and news, and yes, critics pick apart your life and your already fragile ego until someone comes along and tells you "yes, those are the bad guys. Come with us and we'll make you safe." You can show me all the documentation you want, I will not blame Beck or Neil Gaiman for being born into any church. And let's stop using the word "cult", shall we--the only difference between a cult and a religion is political power, which Scientology has shown it possesses, therefore it is a religion. Mormonism is just as crazy, just as restrictive, and shares most of the tenants we have problems with: anti-gay, controlling, in order to leave you must cut ties to your entire family, as well as having a strange space alien story at its heart. But we aren't talking about them. Why? Because Mormons are so much better at hiding, mostly by being boring? Or are all the stories about Mormons lies or hyperbole? In that case, may I suggest that the conspiracy crafters calm down, as much of what they think they know is just the same anti-Zion message applied to whatever new religion is threatening whatever lies you tell yourself so you can handle your own mortality and the fact that we are most likely alone in the universe. I'm glad the truth is coming out about Scientology's violent and restrictive practices, but if it is an evil, nefarious cult, then its members are victims, each and every one, and their mental health is in the hands of those who were victimized before them. Just like Jews, Christians and Muslims. They may have calmed down recently, but when they were the age Scientology is, they were wiping out anyone who worshipped something else. At least Tom Cruise hasn't declared war on the Angel Moroni. Yet.

Niel Gaiman? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

why?
how?
why?

My comment got eaten by Godtopus, but I think it was a little link-happy so I'll try this again with just one external link instead:

puppetDoug, a couple of things that sets Scientology and other fringe cults apart from religion is brainwashing and their own private lexicon. To completely dismiss the research of reporters and people who have studied the subject at length as being a bunch of conspiracy theorists is disingenuous.

Nobody is blaming the celebrities for direct responsibility and most of us are aware that they are victims too. The problem is that a lot of the money that comes from their fans goes directly to Scientology. And thanks to inurement that money benefits David Miscavige.

If one were to weigh the facts and decide against supporting the work of people who belong to an organization that they believe to be harmful that is their right. This discussion isn't just limited to Scientology either, there just happens to be a lot of publicity surrounding that particular group because of Paul Haggis' recent departure. If there is another dangerous group that has a bunch of celebrities who are funding them, then by all means, let us know. It's not as though this website hasn't hosted discussions regarding religion or politics or whether or not we feel we should support the work of anti-semites or pedophiles.

idleprimate, I think one of the problems surrounding Gaiman is that most people take his silence as compliance. He's clearly not an SP, otherwise he wouldn't have contact with his family, but he would have a lot to lose if he were to openly speak out against them. Haggis had the advantage of his family being on the outs with Scientology and doesn't seem afraid of their retaliation.

JEM, popular websites owned by certain companies that say anything potentially critical of Scientology often have that information pulled. There used to be a really interesting article on the Rolling Stone website that got into the history of L. Ron Hubbard that was removed some time in the past year or two. I have some excerpts saved somewhere, but now I can't reference the page. So it's not as though it's limited to Gaiman.

Scientology is not a religion, it is a business. A religion is where the people worhip a higher power. I don't think David Miscavige qualifies.

A church with a pope is a cult. A cult is an organized religion that centers around one person as its leader/godhead. Catholicisms worship of the pope equal to Branch Davidians worship of David Koresh.

I heard at at party recently from an ex-very very very high up player in the CO$ (he had been in the Sea Org,very hush hush, where they float around on a boat) that there is a HUGH scandale brewing about how David Miscaviage has caused irreparable and completely unforgivable, and most likely incomprehensible batshit crazy to us earthlings, harm to many bigshot untouchables in the cult and that the shit, praise XENU

Sorry times 3. I quit. The last phrase is 'gonna hit the fan'. Take me, L.Ron.

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