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Despicable She: 17 Sassy Skirts Who Get on My Last Nerve

By Cindy Davis | Seriously Random Lists | July 31, 2013 | Comments ()


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There’s definitely a different dynamic between the dislike we have for certain male television characters and females; is it all in the gender? What would be the difference if Walter White was a woman, or someone like Jax Teller? Jemma is a pretty good representation of the female version of her son, and as much as we can’t stand some of the things she does, we still love her—she’s strong, opinionated, and she knows how to get what she wants. But Jemma is an exception. We don’t get enough truly strong women; instead we’re served up false representations—supposedly capable characters incessantly complaining or whining, or women who are supposed to be smart, making idiotic decisions. It’s positively infuriating. Listen, I myself can be difficult, ornery, contrary…what have you, but that doesn’t mean I can’t criticize others for the same. Does it? What’s that you say—hypocritical? Yeah, there a few of that sort on this list too.

1. Lori Grimes, “The Walking Dead”

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2. Andrea, “The Walking Dead”

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3. Skyler White , “Breaking Bad”

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4. Marie Schrader, “Breaking Bad”

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5. Sookie Stackhouse, “True Blood”

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6. Cersei Lannister, “Game of Thrones”

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7. Susie Greene, “Curb Your Enthusiasm”

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8. Hannah Horvath, “Girls”

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9. Tara Knowles-Teller, “Sons of Anarchy”

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10. Debra Morgan, “Dexter”

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11. Piper Chapman, “Orange Is the New Black”

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12. Helena, “Orphan Black”

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13. Ellen Tigh, “Battlestar Galactica”

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14. Betty Draper, “Mad Men”

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15. Freddie Lounds, “Hannibal”

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16. Amy Jellicoe, “Enlightened”

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17. Wild Card; You Pick: Kate Austen or Juliet Burke, “Lost”

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Cindy Davis, (Twitter) is nearly as annoying as she looks.







Are you following Pajiba on Facebook or Twitter? Every time you do, Bill Murray crashes a wedding.


Comments Are Welcome, Bigots and Trolls Are Not


  • justice

    KATE AUSTIN .....ugh ...she ruined the show ....seriously ...

  • Wherica

    Does anyone else think the Piper in the flashbacks seems like an infinitely stronger (or just plain different, I'm still debating...) person than the whiney girl in jail? However, I'm waiting for her to show her true balls in prison.

  • WillSmithSpreadsAids

    What I learned from that list is this negative and punishing truth, I'd smash them all without a rubber except for that hideous beast from Girls.

  • te'Shara

    Wait... SOOKIE is on this list but Sarah Newlan isn't? SERIOUSLY?!?!

  • Malware

    1. all time, Kim Bauer, hate that bitch

    2. Skyler White, At least you got this one

    Some of these I don't agree with at all, Cersei? nope. Kate & Juliet? nope.

  • All of these had me going, "Say no more."

    Except for Cersei, but only because I've read the books.

  • Brian Martin

    No "Charlie" from Revolution? She's why I stopped halfway through season 1.

  • Meaghan

    "she’s strong, opinionated, and she knows how to get what she wants." Cersi Lannister, Skyler, and Debra Morgan are all three of these things.
    The problem with female characters in the mainstream entertainment industry is they are stripped down to being essentially just catalysts for the plot to move, they don't serve any other purpose than supporting the main male character's plot point. And most of them are written by Men, so they are men's representations of women.

    That being said, I have to suggest that articles like these about 'annoying skirts' does lend to a problem of perpetuating anti-feminist ideals. Which maybe you don't care about, but you are stripping these characters (some that have incredibly deep multi-dimensions like Skyler from Breaking Bad, unless you've only seen a couple of episodes, she has a pretty incredible story line and although I don't necessarily like Skyler, it definitely does her an injustice to boil her down to an annoying shrew) And that brings me to my point, too long females have been dismissed and all their qualities are cast aside because they are 'annoying'.
    I don't want to go on some PC rant here, because I'm well aware this was all in fun. I just wish that people (like you) who write articles that get an audience would think about the deeper issues here. The Men who write these Women are writing them as annoying shrews (and when they give them depth the audience still only sees annoying shrews)... there lies a much deeper problem, and one that should be addressed. I wish some Media psuedo-journalistic site would have the guts to take it on. Maybe a site that isn't strictly for feminists, but one that gets all kinds of demographics.
    Anyway, that's my two cents. That you never asked for :-)

  • rio

    cause as per usual female characters who are not necessarily more conflicted make unlikable choices and are not fully awesome sucks, but similar male characters are interesting and great and we can totally sympathize with them. Yay for double standards! WHATEVER

  • Steve Ward

    I like Skyler, Cersei, Hannah, Tara, Helena, Freddie and Juliet.

    And characters like Ellen Tigh and Cersei are meant to be hated more often than not. I wouldn't put them in the same category as characters like Debra Morgan or the Walking Dead ladies, who are hateable primarily because of inconsistent writing. If the writers intend to write a manipulative bitch like Cersei/Ellen, then they can succeed tremendously.

    But then you have Lost's Kate flip flopping between love interests, having survival skills that vary in effectiveness week to week, constantly proposing shitty or repetitive plans and having a truly boring back story that even Nathan Fillion couldn't make interesting. Plus we learned her full back story quite early on, so every time a Kate episode rolled around, it was another meaningless layer being added to well established nothingness.

  • Alwyn

    Everyone's made great points about this list's problems, but I just want to ask: where is the mom from Modern Family???

    Also, I love almost every single character on that list. I guess people just have different ideas of "annoying."

    And Juliet's an angel.

  • knockloud

    Don't almost all of the characters in Breaking Bad repeatedly make terrible decisions? Isn't that kind of the point of the show?

  • ZizoAH

    Marnie is way more hateable than Hannah in Girls!

  • Erm

    The bi-monthly women-we-hate list on pajiba. I don't know if you are trolling for page views at this point or if you people really have no self awareness.

  • I'd add Amy Gardner from West Wing. She was really just a more annoying version of Mandy--just as shrill, obnoxious and worse, STUPID. She had the dumbest fucking arguments for things, and all she did was stand around as a listening post for Josh's "brilliant" arguments.

  • You put up 17 pictures and a little text and got 116 multi-paragraph comments in return. Good work. I wish I could get that kind of ROI on things that involved actual money.

  • Killian Steele

    DS Erin Gray in Luther. Lord, I wanted to punch her.

  • feelsgoodman

    Sometimes I think you people make lists just to angry up the readership.

  • St

    I so agree with the first five. They annoy me too. But I like Cersei. I feel sorry for her actually. She just tries to survive. With having monster son and controlling father.

    Always hated Ellen Tigh from “Battlestar Galactica”. Thought she had too much screen time and storylines. And was bad boring character.

    And don’t remind me of Kate from Lost. She was probably the most hated woman character on TV. Until Lori Grimes arrived and people forgot how they hated Kate. And then Andrea joined the party.

    And I guess it shows that after Lost actress who played Juliet gets Lead Roles on different TV shows every year. While actress that played Kate basically vanished. She somehow got that supporting role on Hobbit but I’m sure it will be blink-and-you’ll-miss-her small role. And she is not doing anything else. No one runs to Evangeline Lilly to cast her in big TV show as lead actress.

  • dizzylucy

    I remember her saying she would probably quit acting, but actually she did a couple of movies and is in the next 2 Hobbit films. Plus I think she also took time off to have a baby.

    I never hated Kate the way most people did, but I did prefer Juliet.

  • DeltaJuliet

    She was in Real Steel :D
    What??? My son loves that movie!

  • stella

    I could be wrong but I think she quit acting to go do charity work.

  • Idle Primate

    I see this list and my first thought is the author doesn't like female characters of any stripe. My second thought is often when someone cites a poor female characterization as some sort of gender thing they fail to examine the male characters on the same shows who are inevitably just as ridonk as the females making it a generalized shoddy writing issue.

    Also there's only so much scrutiny a tv show stands up to before all the fun goes out of it

  • The Walking Dead characters listed here absolutely cement it for me. They're both poorly written, annoying, grating, and had the biggest celebrations regarding their deaths.

  • AngelenoEwok

    "generalized shoddy writing issue." Or maybe a generalized "flawed people are more interesting to write and watch" issue?

    I was saying in a thread on a different site about Skylar: all of the characters on BB are terribly flawed, but I don't think that's shoddy writing, I think it's really compelling and nuanced writing. I wouldn't want any of them to be any other way.

  • Idle Primate

    i think all the writing on BB is superb, and i've never understood why some people get so upset about skylar-a well crafted and performed memorable character. i was more thinking of the walking dead, whose characters are all often confusing when it comes to their motivations, decisions and random turnarounds.

    and i was giving the benefit of the doubt that the author was complaining about poorly written characters, not awesome characters that she can't stomach.

  • NyTxToast

    Blessed be Tara made the list. I'll never understand Jax's connection to this insufferable woman. She's the worst.

  • stella

    You leave Juliette alone or I will fight you.

  • Artemis

    Ugh, I hate this whole fucking list. Not the characters, the fact that this list exists. And bonus rage that it was written by a woman.

    If you dislike characters that are whiny and hypocritical, write about that (hint: many male characters display those same characteristics!). If you dislike writers doing a bad job with female characters, write about that. But don't give us the same misogynist horseshit that 95% of the internet does and pretend it's different because it's preceded by a short paragraph in which you say "Isn't it weird that we hate female characters but like bad male characters? But even though it's not good that we do that, here's a list of lady characters I hate. No explanation or context required. Those annoying faces speak for themselves."

    As for your actual choices:

    Deb is less irritating than literally every other character on Dexter, which is less a defense of her than an indictment of what that show has become, but still -- Deb, over Quinn? Yeah, no.

    Skyler is awesome, for reasons many commenters have already explained. Marie is way less whiny than Hank (who I also love), and is pretty awesome in general.

    Cersei is amazing at being Cersei, which is to say, she's not a character you're supposed to love but she plays an important role in the story and is not nearly as bad in any direction as many, many male characters. Worse people? Like, half the show: Joffrey, Tywin, Walder Frey, all the Boltons, etc. More annoying and whiny? Again, a whole bunch of men: Jon Snow, Stannis, Edmure, Joffrey, etc.

    Juliet was awesome. I actually don't even have the faintest idea why you included her, because I don't know anyone who disliked her. And yeah, Kate was annoying -- but Jack was way more annoying.

    The whole goddamn point of Amy Jellicoe was that she was annoying and neurotic and made poor decisions and would be a terrible co-worker. And the show was fantastic because it was about a female character who was all of those things--the way male characters are all the damn time without it being a big deal--and after building this unlikeable woman went on to show other sides of her that were likeable and understandable and sympathetic. If you got stuck on "ugh, annoying", then I just feel bad that you missed out on the enjoyment of such a cool little show.

    Betty's a great character. She's often not given enough to do, but she's had so many fantastic moments (particularly in early seasons, when she had a bigger role, but more recently I would point to her trip to camp with Don). Yeah, she spent a lot of time being mad at Don. Because Don fucking deserved it. And yeah, she was mean to Sally. And was still a much better parent than any of the men on that show.

    And finally, I LIKE Piper. I think she could have gone off the deep end of being so privileged and oblivious that it would have just been annoying, but she didn't. I mean, she is privileged and oblivious, but she also worked her ass off to get back in Red's good graces, and dealt with Healey's crap, and genuinely cares about the people she's met inside, and has grown a ton as a person in just 13 episodes. And again, if you want to hate on someone annoying, surely, SURELY Pornstache is the better candidate.

  • Idle Primate

    Thank you!

  • alannaofdoom

    Gotta say a word in support of Lena Headey here - like you point out, Cersei is not a character one's supposed to love, but Headey's performance is so strong that when she's onscreen I can't help but be swayed to her side ever so slightly.

  • Also, there's the fact that these women are usually arrayed against a male anti-hero who, by dint of being the protagonist, has the audience more or less on his side through most things. If they were to be on the hero's side, they might be lauded for their strength and badassery, but because they stand in the way of the hero's goals (even the bad ones), they are cold bitches and jeez when do they shut up.

    For example, even though people would agree that Don's cheating and general treatment of Betty is/was horrible, on some level she's our "hero's" adversary. And because she's a fictional character, people's reactions to her will be harsher. Whatever these character's sins, they're punished by fans with a greater severity than the male characters. Don's a pretty rotten person who generally treats people horribly (though he's very compelling and interesting to watch), but Betty's such a bitch, so even if a viewer doesn't equate those two "sins" in real life, their attitude will be more cavalier when it comes to fiction. A similar concept applies to Skylar and even Tara.

    And this is going to sound a little rote, but seriously: reverse these character's genders and suddenly they're nuanced heroes with complex motivations. We judge female characters way more harshly than the males.

  • Artemis

    I think the adversary issue is true of Skylar, and is definitely part of the story on why female characters get shit on so much. Rita on Dexter is another example.

    But on this list, it's actually striking to me how much that isn't the explanation. Deb has never been Dexter's antagonist. Lori and Andrea were both supporters of Rick and did very little to interfere with his cowboying. Kate and Juliet weren't really antagonists of Jack, most of the time they were working with him. And while Betty might be classified as an adversary of Don, Megan would not be and she seems to attract just as much hate.

    I think a big part of the issue is people being more easily irritated/enraged by female characters for behavior they forgive or ignore in male characters (see: Kate vs. Jack, Cersei vs. all the men of GoT). And then that's compounded when there are legitimately bad characters overall on a show, and people's confirmation bias causes them to focus only on the women (yup, Lori and Andrea were terrible. You know who else was terrible? Almost everyone on TWD, because that show is horribly written).

  • Idle Primate

    I'm really not sure who this "we" is? The list is full of well acted great characters. I think their sin, according to the author seems to be either that they are women or that they didn't behave the way she wanted.

  • $32857398

    I think I actually hate Healy more than Pornstache. And I HATE Pornstache.

  • Hazel Dean

    Same. I found Healy patronizing and foolish to begin with, but by the end of the season? He's downright EVIL.

  • Dumily

    Slow clap.

  • Boo_Radley

    Gosh, you just don't like anyone.

  • I could write volumes about this and how much it frustrates me, but I'll just reduce it down to a few sentences.

    Characters like Skylar and Cersei, while flawed and remarkably different from one another, are interesting and (mostly) realistically-written characters making choices with compelling motivations. The fact that they are reduced to "bitches" or "nags" or whatever in a lot of fan perception seems really really sexist given that those same fans seem to write a big ole pass for male characters on the same shows who do worse things for less. Wrong, right, or indifferent, these are dynamic characters who are guilty of crimes no greater than their male counterparts and yet get shit on about three times as much.

    It's bullshit.

  • Bert_McGurt

    I think one of the aspects we're missing about Skyler and Walt's relationship is what happened BEFORE the series. It's clear when watching the first season that these two aren't, and haven't actually been happy with each other for a long time.

    Skyler feels like Walt's second choice (after whatever happened with Gretchen) and like she's not on his intellectual level. There's also a 10-plus year age gap between them (Walt is 50, and she's "not even 40 yet"). He met her as a waitress, got married, and had Walt Jr. by the time she was 23 or 24 at most, which probably leaves her resenting Walt (and even Walt Jr.) a little bit for her lost youth. She even pines over a picture of her and Ted (before we even meet him) in the first season.

    Walt, on the other hand, is STILL a mess of emotions over the Grey Matter debacle. He COULD have been a billionaire with the girl of his dreams, working on insanely challenging and world-changing projects, but now he's a high-school teacher working a second job at a place he hates to provide for his wife and kid (and she's not working at the start of the series, remember). His wife is passive-aggressive, bossy, and nosy. He's full of regret and has been pretty completely emasculated. He feels like he's completely lost any control over his life.

    That's the dynamic we START with. Their problems didn't begin when Walt started making meth.

    Anyway, half the fun of watching Breaking Bad is watching the characters evolve. Walt gains control of his life at the cost of his morality. Skyler becomes more of a badass as she embraces hypocrisy. Jesse changes from a lowlife street-punk meth head idiot into someone with brains, heart, and a conscience. Hank morphs from a loudmouthed macho douchebag (who loves his family) into a serious, dedicated cop (who really loves his family). Although it's pretty clear that Hank SHOULD have been able to bust Walt by early season two - when they're watching the video of Walt and Jesse using the thermite to break in and steal the methyl amine.

  • Three_nineteen

    Sure, Skylar is bossy. I'd have to watch Season 1 again to comment on passive-agressive. But wondering where your husband is going and what he is doing when he disappears for hours, sometimes days at a time and is pretty bad at lying about it (as Walt was in Season 1) is not nosy.

  • PaddyDog

    Yeah. I've never understood how you can be a perfectly healthy human being whose only child is a teenager who goes off to school every day, but you don't work and let your husband work two jobs to keep on top of the bills. What exactly did she do all day before we see them in season one? I can see when Walt Jr was an infant: he probably needed lots of care. But later?

  • DeltaJuliet

    I know people like that. I alternate between scratching my head over it and being completely jealous.

  • AngelenoEwok

    I believe my dear friend who blogs on Feminist TV said it best: http://feministtv.tumblr.com/p...

    Or, to quote: "Cersei is definitely not a morally good person. She is the product of a very distinct culture and moral system and a family that emphasizes power and duty. This culture produces men who actually behave very similarly to Cersei, but fandom labels bad-asses and rebels. This is called a double standard. It happens to women in real life too. Men are rewarded for doing morally ambiguous things and women are hated for it."

  • Tinkerville

    There are a lot of female morally bad characters in TV and literature that I love. In a lot of ways they're often my favorites because I find them so interesting.

    My issue with Cersei, and why I've never been a fan, is that she thinks she's a master manipulator when she's actually awful at it. Her self-satisfaction at doing morally ambiguous things isn't deserved because she's really pretty terrible at playing the political game, but she thinks she's a misunderstood genius. There are a lot of things that have happened to her that I empathize with (having to marry Robert for a start) but the irritating traits outweigh the good for me.

  • Sara_Tonin00

    I love this about Cersei. Not about her as a human being, of course - I just don't find the character irritating because I see her as such an interesting and unusual character for those reasons.

    I also don't find her that whiny - she's bitter, and there's a difference to me. She is bitter and brittle - I can't help but visualize little chips coming off her flinty shell of protection when Tywin or Joffrey contradict her.

  • AngelenoEwok

    Right, but I think that's really thoughtful and critically considered reason for disliking her.

    The more I think about the Lannister siblings, the more I see them as tragic figures. As in, I think any kid raised by Tywin with no mom around and then pushed into the political arena was probably going to emerge as a cynical fuck-up. We (readers and viewers) just happen to get more heartstring-pull moments with Jaime and Tyrion.

  • AngelenoEwok

    What the hell was wrong with Juliet?

  • apsutter

    You know what get's on my last nerve? Using the term "skirts" to refer to women...it's not cute.

  • Meaghan

    YES! Condescending. But, people are still cool with using condescending tones when talking about women, hell the other comments on your comment are jokes and thinking they are funny. There is no other class of people that face the struggles of Hate, that it's so socially acceptable to make jokes, call names, and then have a general consensus that when a woman is upset about it she's just 'annoying' or 'over sensitive' or better even 'must be PMSing'.
    I've never actually been on Pajiba before, and I probably wont again if this is the way they get page views, by being blatantly insensitive to a group of people that deal with hate, and fear just for being who they were born to be every single day.
    But then again... I must just be PMSing... right?

  • apsutter

    Usually Pajiba is awesome but this list most definitely is not.

  • toblerone

    You're right. "Broads" is a much better fit for this post then "Skirts".

  • Or possibly 'Dames.'

  • BendinIntheWind

    I get what you're going for (and some of the women on this list are unrepentantly awful - looking at you "Walking Dead"), but I think ascribing some kind of inherent misogyny to these characterizations is a little off base.

    This may sound naive, but I don't think swapping genders across the board would have much impact on how we feel about these characters. Yes, the TV landscape is woefully underpopulated with female-centric shows, or at least a show that centers on a strong female lead, but it's their relationship to and interactions with our loveably dynamic (male) leads that adds fuel to the hate-fire.

    Walter White, Jax Teller, Rick Grimes... they're flawed, and sometimes we hate them, but they're the most active characters, pushing the plot forward. You need conflict to create drama, so the wife or girlfriend is an easy target, and when they stop our lead from doing things, we hate them.

    Conversely, Riley was the fucking WORST. He was bland and boring, and all he did was hold Buffy back.

  • PaddyDog

    I'm not convinced Helena belongs on the list because she is not only mentally ill (and most likely abused for years in the Ukrainian orphanage where she was raised), but also has been maintained on a drug cocktail by her "shepherd" for at least several years so her decision-making cannot be said to be the simple product of a smart girl making the wrong choice.

  • hindulovegod

    I came down to comments to say exactly this. Helena is not sassy, she's insane.

  • alannaofdoom

    Helena would cut your throat for calling her "sassy" once she figured out what it meant.

  • Dumily

    I haven't seen the show (I know, I know, I'm working on it), but my problem with this line of thinking is that it could be applied to any of the woman up there. They maybe weren't locked in a cage, but they: have been through the zombie apocalypse, were held hostage by her fiance- turned- serial- killer who later turns out to be her adoptive brother- turned- serial- killer's brother, were sold into two different loveless marriages by their power hungry father, have survived the Cylon apocalypse, and whatever stupid shit it was that turned out to have happened in Kate's life. Does having a sympathetic back story make a fundamentally unlikable character more likeable? It might provide some insight into why Betty Draper is the way she is, but the way she is sucks.

  • Three_nineteen

    Helena is different, though, because she has been treated like that since birth. Everyone else on the list had at least 20 years of relative sanity (Cersei's life is actually normal for her show, all the other well-off women on GOT are treated the same as she is). When we say Helena is insane, we aren't engaging in hyperbole. We are saying that if she was a real person, she would belong in an institution for the criminally insane.

  • Dumily

    But does that really change how likable/ annoying a character is? Annie Wilkes, Bellatrix Lestrange, Lisa Rowe, Hannibal Lecter, Alex Forrest, Tyler Durden. They're all totally bat shit. And maybe you don't like them, but goddamnit if you don't respect them.

  • PaddyDog

    Does it change their likability? No.

    But what we are presented with here is We don’t get enough truly strong women; instead we’re served up false representations—supposedly capable characters incessantly complaining or whining, or women who are supposed to be smart, making idiotic decisions

    That's why I maintain she doesn't belong on the list.

  • Dumily

    I don't know if I'd agree with that characterization of the list though. We aren't supposed to think that all of the women on here are capable. Ellen Tigh and Betty Draper aren't supposed to be examples of strong women. They were written as the bitchy wives who keep ruining their husbands. They are, in fact, annoying. But their annoying by design. The list is only presented as a bunch of annoying females characters. Why they're all annoying is a different story.
    (Sorry, I should have mentioned, I know the lead in talks about strong women, and Cindy characterizes the characters as false strong women. I disagree with her too.)

  • mairimba

    Betty Draper is written as the bitchy wife who ruins her husband?!?! Don Fucking Draper?!? Who cheated on her with every vagina that walked in his way? Who kept her from pursuing her dream cause he just didn't like her not being under his wing? Betty exists just to annoy Don who's been a terrible husband and terrible father?

  • Dumily

    It the beginning of the show, yes. Betty was supposed to be a buzzkill. That was the way her character was written. Both she and Don have changed over the seasons, and she's become more, although not wholly, likable. I think Betty is a well written, flawed, in some ways deeply dislikable character exactly like Don, Pete and a lot of the other people on the show. Although I did it poorly, I was trying to draw a distinction between complex well written characters how I don't like (Betty, Ellen, Hannah, Cerise, Marie) and poorly written, supposedly sympathetic, rambling messes (Tara, Lori, Andrea). I'm not annoyed by female characters I don't like, I'm annoyed by bad characters.

  • Dumily

    And I should add, Ellen Tigh was a manipulative, alcoholic bitch, but A#1.) I loved her and B#2.) Saul Tigh was no prize himself. It's not about if they're a good person. It's if they're a good character.

  • Three_nineteen

    As you will see when you watch the show, Helena is very capable, she doesn't complain or whine, and she is smart and does not actually make idiotic decisions. Her thought processes are well explained and her decisions are logical for her character.

    I have no idea why Cindy finds her annoying, but from the criteria listed, Helena does not belong here. In fact, the character on Orphan Black who comes closest to the description in the article is Alison, who is everyone's favorite.

  • $32857398

    If Betty had tied Don up in her pretty craft room and interrogated him with a hot glue gam and was best friends with Sal she would be everyone's favourite too, I guess.

  • PaddyDog

    Exactly.

  • jon

    helena's my favorite! :p

  • Fredo

    Kara Thrace would beat their asses, drink them under the table and bitchslap them all.

  • LD

    Justified writes the best female characters yet has one of the most annoying and useless ones: Winona, a complete selfish bitch who never ever appriciates what her ex-husband/ new boyfriend does for her. Like risking his career to save her ass from her own criminal act and they she's pissed off when he doesn't immidiately jump and does her more favours.

  • dizzylucy

    Aside from the evidence locker story line (and that was pretty annoying), I don't mind Winona too much - mostly because of the great chemistry between her and Raylan, but also because Raylan is such a complex and messed up guy, it makes their relationship equally complex. And that makes me a little more forgiving towards her when it comes to him. She's been dealing with his issues for years.

  • ed newman

    In my eyes, Winona mostly redeemed herself last season.

  • Al Link

    I love Piper, the rest of those bitches are evil though.

  • stella

    Hey now, nichols is awesome.

  • LucyKlein

    I think a reason there's a lot of hate towards female characters it that writers tend to box them into the girlfriend/wives/mothers stereotype. Also any female character that's useless/cries/overly dramatic annoys me to no end.
    Thank you for adding Sookie. She's as dumb as a box of especially dumb rocks. She adds nothing to the story and has yet develop beyond dumb country bumpkin. Most of the stories involve her crying/yelling about a guy. I'm so tired of hearing about how she's special.
    The TV show was smart to focus on other characters and downplay how utterly self-involved and obvious she is. And stupid, she is mind-numbingly stupid.

  • James
  • apsutter

    Pam is fucking amazing. I could watch her run around the countryside in terrible sweatpants forever

  • emmalita

    Pam is the best.

  • $27019454

    Fucking HATE Pam. Hate her eyelashes, her bad makeup, her attitude that she's all that and especially her failure to realize that without Eric's protection she would be truly dead or up shit creek. And I don't even like Eric that much, but at least he keeps Pam safe and relevant-ish. She is how old and has yet to realize that keeping your mouth shut keeps others from realizing how shrewish and superfluous you are? She's like the un-witty doppelganger for LaFayette, minus the cool factor. She's a screaming brat in heels.

  • See, in the books, Pam is a twin-set wearing, suburban mom looking (albeit prettier), bitch with perfect manners, a perfect manicure, and grossly expensive shoes. She isn't fond of Sookie, but she also isn't a shrew. Because she knows where her bread is buttered (well, after it's made clear that she can't have Sook for lunch, anyway). At least that's how I remember her from reading waaay back. Don't spoil it for me if I'm wrong.

    Sookie, on the other hand is stupid in the books, too.

  • emmalita

    Oh my goodness gracious me. I am overcome. *faint*

    You may be right. I haven't watch True blood since sometime in S.2 when I wanted to scream, "I am so over Sookie and her precious vagina and her stupid name!" This was before I know she had a fairy vagina. Which ewwwwwww.

  • $27019454

    Every time someone on that show says the word "fairy" with a straight face and in a serious conversation (and is not Rutger Hauer), I criiiinggge. It's supercalifragalistically stupid.

  • PaddyDog

    I love it when klingonfree goes on a rant.

  • $27019454

    Rant? I call it flirting.

  • PaddyDog

    Did I interrupt something? So sorry. Carry on. Pretend I'm not here.

  • Guest

    Oh no. Please. Stay. I'm an equal opp flirt. Plus, I was simply mentioning that what you see as a rant (and probably is) is just my MO. (I'm a specific type, I guess). This ranting is uh right up my husband's alley.

  • $27019454

    And I fully understand that I am quite probably all alone in my hatred of Pam. I'm cool with that.

  • Long_Pig_Tailor

    I don't hate her, but I agree with the argument that there's no reason she's still not-breathing apart from Eric's protection. Anyone else says and pulls the shit she has, they'd be true death'd a good half dozen times by now, but Pam has a 1000 year-old Viking in her corner so she's safe. She's got some power of her own, but most of her cockiness comes from the protection Eric offers.

  • $27019454

    In many many ways, she is like Sookie in that quality. Watch S2 again just to realize how fast Sookie's neck would have been snapped if she did not have Bill around to keep her alive. Poor Bill in that season is like the boyfriend of a mouthy drunk girlfriend who insists on pissing off Mr. Muscles, and now her poor hapless boyfriend is cornered into getting his ass kicked. Pam does this all the time with Eric in her corner. So, in closing, I posit that for the purposes of this post (MY purposes me me me) Sookie is Pam's other, marginally stoopider doppelganger.

  • Tinkerville

    I agree with most of these, but Helena? If you were raised in a cage by psycho nuns in Eastern Europe, you might have some issues too.

  • PaddyDog

    Sorry: didn't read down far enough to see you had already made my point.

  • chantal

    where is winona. winona needs to be on this list.

    but amen to sookie and tara. sookie because she's just the worst & tara because that chic can't act worth a damn.

  • Bea Pants

    Some of these women are SUPPOSED to be terrible (Cersei, Helena, Freddie) but Lori and Andrea have been sold to me as heroines and they are just awful. Marie is in a class by herself. She's grating and irritating and she has a problem with kleptomania but she is great in a family crisis.

  • Dumily

    Exactly. Shouldn't the list have differentiated between successfully detestable characters and unsuccessfully likable ones? And really couldn't we claim that for the male characters on half of these shows? Am I the only one that remembers what Dr Jack Shepard was like? *Shudders*

  • Ryan Ambrose

    So, we can empathize with a former school teacher turned drug kingpin Walter White and his meth empire erected over a pile of dead bodies but suddenly Skyler is a bitch and a buzzkill for attempting to protect her family?

    I never really got why people have a problem with her, try to see it from her perspective.

    She is a great character in a thankless role, much like Pete Campbell or Tywin Lannister.

    Lori Grimes and Debra Morgan deserve all the Internet hate though.

  • GDI

    I lost empathy for Walt toward the end of season 2.

    IFT? That was part of protecting her family?

    Skylar becoming interesting when she turns to the darkside, except that she loses her shit in season 5. Her character is inconsistent, because she seems guiltless, somewhat of a sociopath, and book smart.

    Which is what bothered me with the pool scene.
    Sure, Walt being a terrifying force of nature can be intimidating. But it didn't make sense to play the breakdown card so early. Skylar seems just as stubborn and determined as Walt, if not more so.

  • Long_Pig_Tailor

    I never considered that a proper breakdown, I considered that a play. The point was to appear to Hank and Marie to be having a breakdown, to undercut any attempt Walt might make to outmaneuver her. And I don't consider her remotely sociopathic; she's smart, and she's manipulative, but she's largely made moves meant to actually protect her family. It comes from love Walt, on the other hand, makes moves in the name of his family but actually to satisfy his ego-- he's probably not a sociopath either, but he comes closer to fitting it.

  • GDI

    The majority of the characters are self-obsessed and overall a terrible people (with the exception of Jesse, and I guess Mike). It's just varying levels of how much of a shit bag each character happens to be.

    Walt does show the textbook selfishness, lack of empathy, and guiltless attitude of a sociopath.

    What I meant was that Skylar was obviously gunna lose composure once things got too real; structurally, I think that the writers placed that a little too soon in season. Maybe an episode or 2 before Hank found the incriminating "book". But maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. The last 8 episodes have yet to premiere, so maybe all the pieces of the plot will fit more neatly together once all is revealed.

    I'll be peeved if we get another Sopranos.

  • Julie Chase

    I've never understood the Skyler hate as well.

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