10 Supercool Feminist Men Who Stand Up for Women
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10 Supercool Feminist Men

By Cindy Davis | Seriously Random Lists | November 15, 2013 | Comments ()


A while back, after the site had covered more than a few negative news items involving attitudes toward women, Pajiba regular Maguita NYC suggested something in a positive vein: a list of feminist men—who use their respective celebrity to support or speak out on behalf of women. With all the ongoing causes and support organizations, you might not realize what it means for men to be passionate about women’s equality; I can tell you that it gives us more courage to speak out for ourselves, it warms our insides, makes us feel stronger and it fills our hearts. So check out these supercool men, and if you know another, give him a shout-out in the comments.

1. Patrick Stewart

After growing up in an abusive household where he witnessed “terrible things,” Stewart realized—even as a young boy—that women under duress had nowhere to go for help. “…there were those who condoned the abuse. I heard police or ambulancemen, standing in our house, say, “She must have provoked him,” or, “Mrs. Stewart, it takes two to make a fight.” They had no idea. The truth is my mother did nothing to deserve the violence she endured. She did not provoke my father, and even if she had, violence is an unacceptable way of dealing with conflict. Violence is a choice a man makes and he alone is responsible for it.” As an adult, Stewart became a patron of the national domestic violence charity, Refuge, which operates a 24-hour emergency helpline, and provides shelter, protection and legal help for women and children victims of domestic violence. He continues to speak out publicly, on behalf of Amnesty International’s Stop Violence Against Women campaign.

2. Mark Ruffalo


As the debate over women’s right to choose rages on and abortion clinics around the country continue to be closed, Mark Ruffalo picked the right time to step forward and make a powerful statement; he sent a letter of support to be read at a rally outside Mississippi’s last remaining clinic. And he didn’t just spew out some generic statement, rather he made it personal, speaking about his own mother’s terrible and dangerous illegal abortion experience. “…I have a mother who was forced to illegally have an abortion in her state where abortion was illegal when she was a very young woman. It cost $600 cash. It was a traumatizing thing for her. It was shameful and sleazy and demeaning. When I heard the story I was aghast by the lowliness of a society that would make a woman do that. I could not understand its lack of humanity; today is no different. What happened to my mother was a relic of an America that was not free nor equal nor very kind. My mother’s illegal abortion marked a time in America that we have worked long and hard to leave behind. It was a time when women were seen as second rate citizens who were not smart enough, nor responsible enough, nor capable enough to make decisions about their lives. It was a time that deserved to be left behind, and leave it behind we did, or so it seemed. We made abortion and a woman’s ability to be her own master a Right. That Right was codified into law. That law was the law of the land for decades. My own mother fought to make herself more than a possession; she lived her life as a mother who chose when she would have children, and a wife who could earn a living if she so chose. I want my daughters to enjoy that same choice. I don’t want to turn back the hands of time to when women shuttled across state lines in the thick of night to resolve an unwanted pregnancy, in a cheap hotel room just south of the state line. Where a transaction of $600 cash becomes the worth of a young woman’s life.” (Full text)

3. Eddie Vedder


Having played the Rock for Choice concert series with Pearl Jam, Vedder has been a consistent supporter of women’s right to choose. In a 1992 op-ed for Spin Magazine, he wrote: “…combat lines are drawn at clinics, and women must be escorted through trenches, which only adds to their trauma. This is not a game. This is not a religious pep rally. This is a woman’s future. Roe vs. Wade was decided 19 years ago and the fact that a well-organized group has come close to overturning it is raw proof that we do live in a democracy. But also the reason that any opposition must be equally as vocal. You go to school in Normal, Illinois? Collegetown, U.S.A.? Shout it out. There are people wary of the strength that young voters possess. Prove them right. Decide on the issues and vote — male or female — for this is not just a women’s issue. It’s human rights. If it were a man’s body and it was his destiny we were deciding there would be no issue. Not in today’s male dominated society.” (Full text)

4. David Schwimmer


Son of a feminist, who knew? Our old friend is Director of The Rape Treatment Center in Santa Monica. After working with the organization by appearing in television spots aimed at educating men (“The idea is to make guys see that it is OK to flirt, to party … but not OK to be silent, to be passive, to witness a drugging of drink or a rape and not intercede.”), Schwimmer met and was inspired by the woman (Gail Abarbanel) who ran the the Center. “I think [it was] for personal reasons and because I feel like the issue of rape, especially when it’s a crime against a child, just affects me greater than a lot of other issues. For personal reasons, I had a long-term ex girlfriend of mine who had been a victim of child sexual abuse and then also date rape. And I don’t know, I just thought it was an area that I really wanted to get involved with, [to] try to bring more awareness to men about the issue. I’m just proud to be supporting the organization.” Schwimmer also directed 2010’s Trust, inspired by the experiences of some of the victims he’s met during his years working at the Centre. Additionally, he has campaigned for legislation to ban the so-called “date rape drugs,” like Rohypnol and GHB.

5. Ryan Gosling


The hullaballoo surrounding the MPAA rating of Blue Valentine (initially rated NC-17 because of a cunnilingus scene) caused Gosling to eloquently expound on the industry’s double standard. “There’s plenty of oral sex scenes in a lot of movies, where it’s a man receiving it from a woman—and they’re R-rated. Ours is reversed and somehow it’s perceived as pornographic.” (And in a separate statement, before the rating appeal): “You have to question a cinematic culture which preaches artistic expression, and yet would support a decision that is clearly a product of a patriarchy-dominant society, which tries to control how women are depicted on screen. The MPAA is okay supporting scenes that portray women in scenarios of sexual torture and violence for entertainment purposes, but they are trying to force us to look away from a scene that shows a woman in a sexual scenario, which is both complicit and complex. It’s misogynistic in nature to try and control a woman’s sexual presentation of self. I consider this an issue that is bigger than this film.”
“The MPAA’s decision on Blue Valentine unmasks a taboo in our culture, that an honest portrayal of a relationship is more threatening than a sensationalized one,” says Williams. “Mainstream films often depict sex and violence in a manner that is disturbing and very far from reality. Yet, the MPAA regularly awards these films with a more audience friendly rating, enabling our culture’s desensitization to violence, rape, torture and brutality. Our film does not depict any of these attributes. It’s simply a candid look at the difficulties couples face in sustaining their relationships over time. Blue Valentine opens a door for couples to have a dialogue about the everyday realities of many relationships. This film was made in the spirit of love, honesty and intimacy. I hope that the MPAA will hear our pleas and reconsider their decision.”

6. Daniel Craig

Proving much can be said without a single word…

7. Ian Somerhalder


Somerhalder joined the UK Women’s Aid national “Real Man” campaign to send out the message that “‘Real Men’ do not abuse and control women - physically, emotionally, sexually or financially.” Celebrities signed shirts that were auctioned off for the charity which supports agencies providing assistance to victims of domestic and sexual violence. Somerhalder took part in the campaign “because it’s so easy to forget the many women who live their lives in fear because of domestic violence. Men have an important role to play in sending out the message that real men do not hurt or abuse their partners.”

8. Alan Alda


Lifetime feminist Alda has been dubbed an Honorary Woman by both The Boston Globe and the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette (which also gave Alda “The Tootsie Award” and inducted him into “The Tootsie Hall of Fame”), for his continuing work on behalf of women. Alda campaigned tirelessly for the Equal Rights Amendment, serving with Betty Ford as co-chair. On being a feminist: “Why isn’t everyone else a feminist, too?” On why he stood up for the ERA: “I do it because I care so much about it…I see myself as a fellow citizen who has a responsibility—because of my access to the media by being a celebrity—to be cogent, fair accurate and well-informed, and I try to be all of these.” “There is so much big money used in opposition to the ERA in the US, the absence of which leaves a gaping hole in the Constitution. It means 53 percent of the population are not represented in the Constitution, and therefore I don’t think it’s a democracy. “

9. Dustin Rowles


If I really get going on the bossman, I’m going to get emotional, and then you’re probably going to throw-up…but fuck it. All my life, all I ever wanted to do is write. I still have the usual journals and poetry from teenagerdom—including notes from my favorite high school English teacher—stowed away with random published snippets from this newspaper or that. But Dustin, he’s the man who gave me—and Joanna and Courtney and Jodi and Genny—a real chance to do what we love. He plucked us out of relative obscurity to say the things we want to say; to talk about our families or books or movies, to express our anger over something as simple as what a celebrity wore, or as complicated as rape—whatever we want to express, he supports us and gives us heartfelt advice. He doesn’t just talk the talk, he gives women a voice. On top of that, Dustin simply delights in calling out misogynistic assholery; he’s not one to let anybody get away with putting down a woman’s physical appearance, nor to neglect calling out the industry’s double standards. He’s the coolest feminist I know.

10. A Transformed Feminist: VarmitCoyote

The young man in the clip above went on a long internet rant not long ago at the MRA regarding female superiority, and ended-up actually agreeing with them. The clip was taken down by Varmit himself, and instead posted a surprising one. It starts with the mandatory “Fuck feminism, fuck female superiority” but less than a few seconds in the language changes: “…Or I might say that like most the internet, I did not know anything about feminism, got all my information about it from anti-feminists, or felt perfectly obliged to judge the entire movement based on my personal experience. You know, now that I’ve gone out of my way to read up on feminism and educate myself a bit, interesting that I couldn’t possibly not be one! Effectively to be a feminist, is to be a non-sexist. Because you are in favor of equal rights for women.” “This video is a retraction of every previous thing I’ve said about feminism because I didn’t know what the hell I was talking about. So feel free to inspire the next retraction for how fucking wrong I was. I promise you that so long the preponderance of evidence is in your favor, then you’ll win out! Of course, you actually understand the scientific method, and what actually evidence is, instead of some anecdotal bullshit about how well Oh feminists, and the blah my experience, and I’m a fucking dumbass, like most of the internet. Because we like to have our opinions, we love to express them, and too few of us are willing to question what we think is right. And actually change those opinions. So, change mine. Otherwise, I’m going to actually fight for Women’s Rights, since you know, they’re kind of under attack. A lot.” You don’t need to be a Hollywood star to defend women’s rights. You don’t need to earn millions and have some clout in making your voice heard to defend equal rights. And like this young man, all you need is to read up on feminism and educate yourself. That’s all it takes. (Maguita NYC)

Cindy Davis, (Twitter)

Celebs Misunderstand Feminism, Make Me Sexist as a Result | Lily Allen: The Hero We Need Right Now

Comments Are Welcome, Bigots and Trolls Are Not

  • IA

    Apparently that last guy "took back" everything he said in his video... and will be posting a follow-up video with his new beliefs, at some point? Wonder how that'll go.

  • punkinelf

    Norman Reedus has worked with 2 female directors Michelle Danner (Hello Herman) and Laurie Collyer (Sunight Jr.)

  • Jezzer



  • AudioSuede

    Late to the party, but I have to say, nothing makes my heart happier than feminist men. Just because the internet is so pockmarked with MRA, hate-filled jerks, it's nice to see people who care about equality.

  • Ben

    Mad respect for that last dude. Being rasied femmenist, or having stuff happen in your childhood to push you into it is one thing, but being so anti it and then realising and admitting you're wrong and were being stupid is hard. So props to him.

  • Mz Black Widow

    numbers 2,3 & 7 on your list have long been loved by moi. Their views on equality were part of the delicious whole, of course.
    Since Sir Patrick Stewart started hanging out with another of my idols Sir Ian McKellan I have read and watched much about him and he has become a fixture on my "top .. whatever ... human beings" list also.
    I must say that Daniel Craig clip is incredibly evocative & powerful in delivering the message.
    I also must say that Joss Whedon has always been a feminist and he does NOT do the "look at me" thing -- every reporter to ever speak to him asks him about it and since Marvel, naturally he is spoken to alot more often. He is an outstanding person .

  • Natalie

    First off: Joss Whedon.
    I don't care what other people say. He's always been a feminist, and he's responsible for some of the most complex, empowered female characters today. And his work always passes the Bechdel test.

    Second off: This is something I never understood. How can men not be feminist? They have mothers, grandmothers, sisters, wives, daughters, granddaughters, etc. I just don't get it. IT AFFECTS THEIR FAMILY. My dad is an example of this. After being on the other end of some extremely subtle maternal profiling in one of my job interviews, I was trying to get him to admit/agree with certain aspects of sexism in society. His answer was a grudging, "You're probably right, just don't expect me to do/say anything about it."

    Huh? He's got a sister. A wife. Three daughters. Two granddaughters. Nieces. And it's too embarrassing to put yourself out there and make the occasional comment against the status quo?
    I was raised in a house that believed that there were no equality problems. That America was a great country, and that these things were fought for and won, and we're behind it. It was a rude awakening to me to understand that this is still a racist and sexist country run primarily by old, white men when I was taught differently. My dad is taking even longer to realize this. He would like to think that everything is merit based. But he's coming around. Slowly.

    Third off: I'd like to thank the writers of pajiba for being unabashedly feminist, and helping him come around. My dad is an interesting guy. He's always been Republican. Always. But, old school republican. More fiscal than social. The kind who is getting overruled by the Tea Party. He's been anti-gay marriage for a long time and stated that tired, "A marriage is a defined as between a man and a woman," as his primary reasoning. He's also a long time reader of pajiba, from way back before pajiba had a comment section and all they did were foul-mouthed movie reviews that had him rolling with laughter. And I'd like to credit pajiba directly for changing his opinion about gay marriage. (that, and watching Modern Family, which he found out about from pajiba)

    He now sees nothing wrong with it. Understands that gay people are... people. He's also voted for Obama over Mitt Romney. (although he viewed it as the lesser of two evils) I also think he's coming around on feminism, and not seeing it as an unnecessary movement comprised of some stereotype as described by Rush Limbaugh.

    Keep up the good work Pajiba. You're more influential than you know.

  • Natalie

    Also, let me be clear in saying that I don't think that the ideal is to be democrat, or that a more progressive person necessarily will vote democrat.

    I expect this comment will be downvoted 100+ times. :)

  • Collin Scott

    How can you not have Joss?

  • Uriah_Creep

    Great article, Cindy. It's like a beacon of light in the often-dark internet.

  • muscleman

    I live here in Dallas, Texas. Texas has been very good to me job wise.
    I cannot tell how it makes my skin crawl to see a bunch of old, out of touch men, signing laws that tell women what to do with their bodies and say they are doing it in the name of God and love.
    Then, see an audience of their women supporters stand up and clap like they just got cars from Oprah....

  • Robot Devi

    Ian Somerhalder seems like a really great guy and I've heard a lot about his passion for human and animals rights. I wonder, though, how he feels about his character in the Vampire Diaries (Damon) essentially repeatedly raping another character (Caroline).

  • Werner Goring

    Is there -anything- about Patrick Stewart that is not legendary?

    I love this article. Especially the last guy. Takes guts to change your opinion publicly.

    I work on building sites, and it's like being stuck in the 50's. Outdated and unacceptable ideas regarding women and their place in society unfortunately are still rampant amongst the majority of males there. Words are a powerful tool, and their idea of 'playful banter' is actually not just insulting and demeaning, but ethically and morally reprehensible.

    I think as fathers, brothers, lovers and husbands, it's the duty of all of us men to ensure that we work hard to affect equality for all these women we profess to love so much.

    Again, great article. This is my first visit to this site, and if this is the standard of article on offer, it won't be my last.

  • Bea Pants

    Mr. Pants is a union communications installer and has said essentially the same thing. Union guys pretty much have to vote Democrat and plenty of them hated the idea of voting for a black president and will likely hate the idea of voting voting for a woman in 2016.

  • Werner Goring

    I'm in Australia, so I really can't comment on the political point you've raised. Mind you, we had a female Prime Minister who got shafted by her party come election time, because a male would apparently get more votes.

    He lost to a right wing Christian. Yay...

    As far as the race/ethnicity issue is concerned, Aussies are kinda weird about it:

    We hated the Greek and Italians, until the Asians showed up.
    Then the 'Greasers' were ok.
    9/11 happened, then the Islamic community was hated, whilst the 'Slants' became our friends.
    Now we have Sudanese people coming in, and yes, you guessed it, we're not afraid of the 'Terrorists' anymore.

    I call it Replacement Therapy.

    Personally I can't wait to see what happens next...

  • Fabius_Maximus

    Wait, the Sudanese aren't terrorists? But they're Muslims and black.


  • foca9

    “I’m a feminist because a lot of guys still believe girls ‘ask for it’”.

  • Silvermane

    The men in this list aren't feminists. Men who take a stand against the abuse of women are not feminist. Just the opposite, protecting women is the purest form of masculinity. Wanting our wives, sisters and daughters to be safe and to have every opportunity in life is what men are supposed to want. To imply that when men support women, they are tapping into some feminine part of themselves, is an insult to the compassion of the masculine heart.

    Masculine isn't a dirty word, and it doesn't mean "brute" or "misogynist" as some people have come to think.

    Fighting for equality and taking a stand against violence isn't feminism. It's humanism. True equality and justice have no roots in any gender based idealism. Love of people and despising evil is a trait Men and Women share equally.

  • Fabius_Maximus

    How cute.

  • Maguita NYC

    "Humanism is a group of philosophies and ethical perspectives which emphasize the value and agency of human beings, individually and collectively, and generally prefers individual thought and evidence (rationalism,empiricism) over established doctrine or faith."

    Feminism needs to first achieve equality for women, and that would happen when equality would be clearly reflected not only in human laws, but also in religious institutions' attitude towards women as well.

    Until then, even though Humanism and Feminism are not mutually exclusive, saying one is Humanist and that standing against violence done to women is in no way Feminism, is tantamount to turning purposely a blind eye on the reality of women and the fights generations past had done in order to bring women's plight to the forefront.

  • AudioSuede

    I'm just gonna say: I work for the American Humanist Association, an official organization that has existed since at least the 1950s, the group that drafted the "Humanist Manifesto," and the largest humanist organization in the country.

    And I can tell you that not only is feminism considered "not mutually exclusive" from humanism, it is inextricably linked. MRAs have tried to co-opt the term "humanism" to mean something very different than its actual definition. It won't work. True humanism means believing in equality and social justice, and that means believing in feminism.

  • Maguita NYC

    I absolutely agree with you. They've tried coining "Humanism" and "Equalitarian" but their actions belie either and any.

    Also, poor Carmelo in this particular case simply stopped at the FEMINI part of the words, took it as an attack on masculinity and attempted to protect his big male status. With not much success.

  • Silvermane

    I never said I don't believe in feminism, I'm just saying that when men stand up for women, we are tapping into our inner masculinity not femininity.

  • Maguita NYC

    No, you said exactly the following: "Men who take a stand against the abuse of women are not feminist." You said nothing about them being in touch with their "feminINITY".

    Absolutely not the same thing, at all. Feminism is a social movement for equality, and against violence done to women. So yes, as you put it, it does absolutely mean "Fighting for equality and taking a stand against violence".

    It has nothing to do with either being in touch with a feminine, masculine or transgender side.

    I believe you don't know the definition to the words. Same as with Humanism.

  • Silvermane

    My use of the word 'humanism' is not a copy and pasted definition from Wikipedia. I was referring to the broader scope of humanity. Besides my usage of the word is from a interview that Actress Susan Sarandon gave. She was asked if she is considers herself a feminist and she responded that she is a humanist. http://www.theguardian.com/the...

    The root of feminism was the fight for equal rights for women. The name FEMINism implies that it is a concept that puts the female ideal at it's forefront. The Civil Rights fight of the 50's and 60's wasn't called BLACKISIM. That's because even though African-American rights was the root of the movement, it was really about equality for all. So it is disingenuous to say that a movement called FEMINism isn't rooted in female energy.

    I simply surmise masculine compassion can be just as powerful as feminine compassion and it is unfair to disregard it.

  • Maguita NYC

    WHO is disregarding it???

    Have you read this piece at all?? It is a clear celebration of men who in their OWN words have said they consider themselves FEMINISTS.

    I don't understand why you choose to demean these men's words and actions.

    Also, please do not attempt to troll by intentionally misframing the matter at hand. We are in no way discussing other actresses or actors, and their own definitions or social standings and views on equal rights. This is a piece about men stating they are Feminists. Period.

  • emmalita

    Taking a stand against violence against all people is humanism. There are engrained social attitudes that make a stand against violence towards women a feminist issue. Women are more likely to be the target of domestic violence, are more likely to be killed by a current or former partner, and are more likely to be the target of sexual violence. That makes a stand against violence towards women a feminist issue. Go read what Patrick Stewart has to say. He is more eloquent on this issue than I could be.

  • Three_nineteen

    In this vein, FIlm Crit Hulk has just posted an interesting and amazingly long article about rape and rape culture:


    And for all the "I can't read Hulk because he writes in all caps" people, here is a link to a Convert Case website:


  • stella

    Omg thank you so much for that.

  • Fabius_Maximus

    I've watched Stewart's episode of that genealogy show. His mother not only endured the beatings her traumatized husband gave her. As a single mother, she also dragged him in front of a court so that he acknowledged his parenthood for their firstborn. They married only after that.

    That was in the early 20th century. Remarkable woman.

  • Ryan Ambrose

    Great piece, this place really has the best online community on the internet.

  • ZbornakSyndrome

    Thanks Cindy & Maguita, this was nice to read.

    Also, Sir Patrick can do no wrong.

  • Amanda Cotylo

    I'm glad Dustin doesn't tolerate women being put down based solely on their physical appearance. I used to be an avid reader of Pajiba's friend site deus ex malcontent esp because a lot of what homeboy wrote about was political which is kind of my bag. But the vitriol from him about Sarah Jessica Parker and then Lena Dunham having the audacity to exist and thereby be labeled sex symbols by some made it uncomfortable reading and ruined it utterly for me. Bravo, Dustin!

  • AudioSuede

    This is still a problem on Uproxx too, especially re: Lena Dunham. Glad Pajiba is more evolved overall.

  • Fabius_Maximus

    Chez Pazienza is a self-confessed, unapologetic asshole. He doesn't like those two. The means to express this dislike are cheap.

    He also has written quite a few articles supporting women who in his eyes deserve it.

  • Dumily

    "I can tell you that it gives us more courage to speak out for ourselves,
    it warms our insides, makes us feel stronger and it fills our hearts."

    And, let's be honest, it moistens our loins.

  • emmalita

    ...it moistens our lions.

    Fixed it for you.

  • Dumily

    Sorry, sorry. I'm always neglecting my lions.

  • Maguita NYC

    Yeah. You watch yourself there with the typos Dumily!
    It is ALWAYS lions around these shores. Always.

  • emmalita

    I had no idea about David Schwimmer or Ian Somerhalder. I now have opinions about them. And good for VarmitCoyote. I believe that most people can be educated, but most of them don't want to change their mind.

  • ZbornakSyndrome

    I take back all the mean things I've said about Ross! I am chagrined.

  • emmalita

    meh. Schwimmer can handle it. He made a lot of money playing an annoying drip.

  • zyzzyva

    Smolderhalder is also quite active for animal rights (started his own foundation) & environmental causes. He's a total cat dude.

  • emmalita

    I didn't know that either. Awesome.

  • Yup. I can never pass up the chance to post cats pics on here. Or pics of Ian, either.

  • Mz Black Widow

    he even met Grumpy Cat when she had her "press tour" :) I saw several photos of him holding her, it's clear he is a true cat person and Tard looks slightly happier than usual (and who could blame her?)


  • YAY.

  • Al Borland's Beard

    Oh, Mark Ruffalo. Of all the Hulks, you're my favorite.

  • chanohack

    He just got 100% hotter.

  • Al Borland's Beard

    That's his secret. He's always hot.

  • Alice

    Joe Biden for drafting the Violence Against Women Act! The resulting law provides programs and services for survivors of rape and domestic violence and programs for community violence prevention.

  • psemophile

    this post made me very happy. :) thank you.

  • chanohack

    Maybe everything will be okay!!!

  • Hollyg

    I recently got into a facebook discussion (I KNOW!) with some very well educated guy friends of mine, who consider themselves feminists, over the whole Joss Whedon speech. I didn't even tell them my opinion on the speech itself, just pointed out the reasons why Whedon is a controversial figure in most feminist circles (one of the reasons being his "LOOK AT ME ME ME!" approach) and I mentioned Sir Patrick Stewart as the example of a feminist men who does awesome work and is not frowned upon just for being a men. I think the way most of these men do their part without putting themselves on the spotlight is quite telling.

    (and in case you're wondering, yes, the whole discussion then became about them explaining how it is not important how women feel about Whedon's work and his workplace actions (such as Charima Carperter's firing) because he should have a voice, goddammit, the world is so unfair!)

  • grr arrgh

    I don't really know who specifically to reply to but I figured I would post this for everyone in this part of the thread:

    Charisma's sort of explanation of what happened. Question starts are 4.00 and her answer goes to the end of the video. She still doesn't go into much detail regarding her firing, though she does say that she ended up okay with Cordy dying in the 100th Angel episode.


  • candace hathaway

    I just read an article about how Joss Whedon isn't really a feminist and frankly it was annoying as hell. It made some terrible points (you're not a feminist unless you're well read in feminist literature?), but those didn't bother nearly as much as this: Who cares whether a person is given too much credit? Who cares if a person's actions inflate their ego? I like Joss Whedon, but even if he didn't create some of my favorite characters, even if I met him and he turned out to be a self important jackass, that wouldn't change the amount of money people have given to Equality Now because he suggested it. In this instance it's the end result, not the thought, that counts.

  • Sarah

    Charisma Carpenter's firing, if I'm not mistaken, was due to her renewing her contract without telling him she was pregnant, effectively screwing the story he'd planned for the next season.

  • Hollyg

    There is always two sides to every story, that'd be Whedon's, I guess. Charisma's is that she was recently married and into her thirties (she was 33 when her son was born) so she reasonably couldn't wait a whole other season or whoever Whedon wanted to have a child. And it wasn't only that he fired her for screwing his plotline - real life of someone who had been working with him for two shows since she was 26 be damned - he completely casted her aside and created a very bad work environment for her. And to be extra nice, when she turned down the offer to return for the 100th episode because she didn't feel comfortable with the whole thing, the producers insisted, and she finally caved, asking only that her character didn't get killed. They promised, and she signed the papers.

    Guess what news they had for her then?

  • Mz Black Widow

    may I just say, quietly and with due respect to this poster, that I am sick to effing death of the anti Whedon comments that are breeding everywhere in direct correlation to his growing high profile.
    I do not question Hollyg's right to her opinion, nor do I fail to realise she may well have held it since long before Joss' Marvel-ing.

    I am simply pointing out that tall poppy syndrome is not exclusive to Australians (although we are famous for it, with good reason :( ) and also asking why Carpenter's version of events is automatically more believable than Whedon's?

    ** raises umbrella against the down votes :)

  • Hollyg

    I had never heard of tall poppy syndrome before (non-english speaker here), but I don't see how it fits here. It's not resentment over someone's success, it's called appreciating a work while seeing its problematic aspects. I have always enjoyed Whedon's work, in the same way I have always enjoyed Moffat's, for example, but that doesn't mean I agree with every single thing they portray and especially say (I'm giving an extreme example in Moffat's case). If someone works more and put themselves out more, then yeah, they'll be more analysed.

    As for Carpenter's version being more believable than Whedon's, a) Whedon apparently doesn't have a version and b) whatever happened, she *did* get fired because she was pregnant, and only heard about it through the press. I, personally, see no reason why she would come up with this elaborate story in front of cameras while sitting next to other actors, and no one from the show (actors/producers) wouldn't defend Whedon if she was lying. There isn't really a controversy over this, with people from the show defending him (while some have shown support for her).

  • Three_nineteen

    I don't think Whedon or anyone else in a producer capacity on Angel has ever officially discussed what happened with Carpenter.

  • Hollyg

    ....so I guess Whedon firing her because she (intentionally) didn't tell him she was pregnant before signing her contract is internet rumour?

  • Three_nineteen

    Yes. If Whedon or anyone else involved with the decision has a different take than Carpenter's on what happened, they haven't said anything. The rumor mentioned may have come from other people working on Angel, but it's not official.

    I could be wrong about this, because it was a long time ago, but that's what I remember. If anyone knows of an official statement, please post.

  • Maguita NYC

    What I try so often to point out, when it comes to those who consider themselves Feminists, is that Feminism is not convenient or temporary. It is a full time social movement for equality. You don't hit "Pause" on being a Feminist just because you felt slighted by one woman, or even a group of women! And many of the above Feminist Men, no matter where they've started with their beliefs towards women's rights, now walk the talk every day.

    I don't know if I am explaining myself clearly with that first paragraph, but please allow me to give an example:

    A someone is loud and clear about their fight against xenophobia. They consider themselves outspoken and even activists fighting for equality, and more than often can come up with the greatest speeches against racism, and have you strongly believe in their conviction. Then one day, something happens to them; They are victim of a slight or even a crime, and it happens to be at the hands of a black man or woman; And then you hear the first thing out of their mouth. Something along the lines of "it is people like these that make me hate N*, and make their cause difficult to defend."

    Is that reasonable, whether because of the circumstances, the extreme situation and emotional upheaval it caused? Or is that not actually racism and all that time spent on powerful speeches was nothing but... an act?

    If it wasn't within your system of beliefs already, it would never come out under any kind of duress. You may insult your attacker, you may cuss them, curse them, wish them violence or death; But if you were truly not a racist, would you ever bring up the color of their skin as foundation to your right to denigrate their right to equality, even under difficult circumstances?

    The same goes with Feminism. No matter your gender, no matter your fervent speeches for equality, when you jump at every chance to demean women, or to bully and denigrate their rights to equality because of personal reasons or whatever perceived personal slights: Are you truly a Feminist? Or was that just conventional ego flattering.

  • emmalita

    Thank you! Joss Whedon is not the world's best feminist. I like him for being a not bad feminist, but feel like raging when he gets held up as a shining example.

  • ZbornakSyndrome

    I will always love him for giving me Zoe, but yeah, he's not the gold standard.

  • emmalita

    Excellent! It makes me happy to be able to celebrate the men who are supportive instead of just talking about the horrible people. It's easier in a way to talk about the horrible people though. Things that piss me off send me into flights of eloquence more often than things that make me happy. Things that make me happy mostly make me want to smile and snuggle.

  • BWeaves

    YEAH! Dustin!

  • zeke_the_pig

    How did you post the exact same form of what I just came here to say?
    BWeaves, get the feck outta my head. Seriously, you don't want to risk it in there.

  • chanohack

    Yay, Maguita! Good call.

  • Maguita NYC

    Thank you Chanohack!

    Also, thank you Cindy for kindly including me and allowing me to participate in the process. I really enjoyed it, and am grateful that you deemed my suggestions worthy. Thank you!

  • 'twas a fabulous idea and contribution. Thank you!

  • Maguita NYC

    Also, before the week-end I'd like to leave you with something for your crush on Patrick Stewart.

  • emmalita

    You did good Maguita.

  • Maguita NYC

    Emmalita, I have to tell you: It is your patience during our many conversations on Feminism and Racism that have generated much deeper reflections on the subjects. And I'm quite positive that Feminist Men idea was because of our conversations.

    You are the best chica!

  • emmalita

    It goes both ways.

  • Sara_Tonin00

    Bravo for that last guy especially.

    And I just saw Schwimmer last night. He sat right behind me (with Joey Slotnick, who my friend recognized, because I never would've known his name) at an off-off show in Astoria last night.

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