Pajiba

That is why I always keep the local ASPCA numbers in my phone. Of course, since I put them there, I have never had occasion to use them (which is good).

Also, I love pictures of dudes holding towels over their junk. Not enough to pay for a magazine containing said pictures, but definitely enough to look at them for free in the internets.

So this is totally going to come off as homophobic, but I have to say it; Adam Lambert is too gay. Now, I lived in San Francisco, and yes I accidentally saw the Folsom Street fair (because I was a dude from the east coast and didn't know you could do that in public), and I voted against Prop 8 (that's pro-gay for the confused). And the Castro is the nicest place in SF (seriously). So I'm all for the gay rights. Honestly.

But every time I see this guy I can't help but think he's just kinda turning it up to 11 to piss people off. We get it, you're gay. You're really gay. But when you're annoyingly gay, i.e. flaunting your sexuality and simulating sex on stage (I didn't watch just read) you're only doing it to get off on yourself/make controversy/sell records. Even if I support your right to blow a donkey while a german shepherd mounts you, doesn't mean you get to simulate it in public.

I guess I'm just having trouble figuring out whether this dolt pisses me off because he's annoying, or because he's gay. And I sincerely hope/think it's the former. I take the same approach when it comes to Lady GagGag and the people you pass walking down the street and make you throw up a bit in the back of your mouth. I'm talking about the hipsters in tight black denim/vintage bomber jackets/bed head/scarf/American Apparel shit. The people wearing size smalls on a XXX frame.

So help me out Pajibaverse. Tell me I ain't the only person who hates Adam Lambert in a sincerely non-homophobic way.

Have to say, the Palin line was about what I'd expect. I'm not sure who's scarier, Palin or the people who lover her for no articulate reason.

I'm gonna jump on the "Adam Lambert is annoying" bandwagon. The funny thing was he was worried that he'd look too gay on The Out 100 Magazine cover, then he goes on the AMAs looking like a bad SNL character. Christ man...The worst thing is that now all the little tweener kids are going to think that Kink is cool (which it SO is), and as well all know, TWEENERS RUIN FUCKING EVERYTHING.

I don't even have to look at the Van Der Booben link to know it probably contains "I. Don't want. Your life." somewhere in there.

Good list from Screen Junkies, too. I've never seen Myth, but I've seen pretty much everything else Jackie Chan has done, so now I have to go find it. Or maybe I'll just watch New Police Story again. Not as good as the other Police Story films, but it's decent enough to be enjoyable.

So, is Nubs going to play himself? Or are they going to maim a stuntdog to do the acting?

I wish those people camping out for Sara Palin had been interviewd by Triumph the Insult Comic Dog.

I did watch SNL, and I thought it was great. Of course, I am old and therefore get references to Singing in the Rain, the game show Password, and Say Anything.

And Al Gore was good, just like he was on 30 Rock.

DeistBrawler,
Fuck right off. I can't believe you would do something so unhealthy as smoking in a bar. The fucking nerve of you god damn smokers pisses me off. I have a right to clean air while I drink my poison, thank you very much. If you wanna smoke, you do it 100 miles from any entrance to a public building. It's the law.

DOGS RULE!!!

/that is all

You know, it never occurred to me that I could butter my cigarettes! Mmmmm! I'm going to go try that right now--thanks for the tip!

Jerce, will you marry me?

Cindy: Loving the Curb Your Enthusiasm reference there. Tell me Cindy... Do you respect wood?

I didn't see SNL, but I did see this clip where joseph Gordon-Levitt recreates "Make 'Em Laugh" from Singin' in the Rain.

He's no Donald O'Connor, but he's pretty damn good.

I've reached the point where laughing at Sarah Palin supporters isn't fun anymore. It's like poking a stupid animal with a sharp stick. It's all gone downhill since the Letterman mess. None of them can top "He will rape your children with his mouth," and watching them try is just sad. Then again, maybe I'm dead inside and not in a good way like Edward.

Um, that would make it pretty much impossible to smoke anywhere.

That was sarcastic hyperbole.

Also, the diner does much better business now, I can tell you that.

Good for them(seriously), but I still resent a law that forces a business owner to ban smoking in their establishment*. It is perfectly within an owner's rights to do that, and if it is profitable, they'd be smart to do it.

* - Bonus point for the first person to ask if I'd support an owner banning certain races from their bar.

Tracer:

But you have to admit that "she didn't let being a beauty queen stand in her way" was frickin' amazingly funny

I'm sorry, I meant breathe, I'm obviously irate.

I have to support Becks here. It's not exactly an option after paying $150 for a ticket to see a band play to walk out and "inform management why you are leaving". Will I get my money back? Will the band come and play a smoke-free performance for me? In Illinois, going to gigs since the smoke-free ban has been a delight. No more asshole pushing up beside me scorching my clothing in the process, no more burns on my skin, no more inability to speak the next day after breathing in all those toxins.

I am so grateful that smoking was banned in public places in my state last year. I wonder if they had done this 10 years ago if I would have actually quit smoking for good instead of still having the occasional smoke when I'm too drunk to know any better. These are also the times I'll willingly eat deep fried mini tacos in a bar, showing just how little judgment I can have. And on the plus side, sometimes the scene outside of the bar is even better than inside.

On a related note, I love Dan's bar reviews. I wish he lived in my town.

It's been a tough year for SNL. Last season was so hysterically great (probably the most consistent season they've ever had), but they have not been able to make their hosts work for them lately.

re SNL, JGL did a good a job with his opening dance number. He has a future as a host for the Oscars ala Hugh Jackman if he wants it.

Other than that I normally fast forward to the weekend update and then erase it from my DVR.

First of all, didn't we establish years ago that movie theater popcorn (at least from the chains) is bad for us?

Second is it wrong that my thought process, on finding out that my local chain, Cinemark, uses the healthier canola oil was, "Oh good, Cinemark uses a healthier oil. Mmm. I bet that coconut oil popped corn is extra tasty."?

Thought that his voice sounded way off but I thought that the performance was pretty awesome. I love pissing off the AMA! Also his album is pretty epic, listen for free here:
http://www.ilike.com/artist/Adam+Lambert

My favorites are Pick U Up by Rivers Cuomo, Soaked by Muse, Sleepwalker, and Broken Open by Lambert.

He's right about the homophobia and double standard though. Madonna has done it all already: kissing Britney, shoving someone's face in her crotch, grabbing her crotch, all been done only Adam is an openly gay man.

Seriously check out the album it is a very good debut, something for everyone.

He's right about the homophobia and double standard though. Madonna has done it all already: kissing Britney, shoving someone's face in her crotch, grabbing her crotch, all been done only Adam is an openly gay man.

And it is just as full of bullshit as when she did it. So now we have to expect Adam Lambert to start fucking A-Rod now.

I don't get how "Madonna did it first" makes it somehow okay to be goddamn annoying. News flash: MADONNA IS FUCKING ANNOYING.

but if all my friends are going out to the bar, then am I going to sit home alone?

Well, I mean...yeah, that is what that means. It sucks, I know, but if you don't like the smoke, stay at home*, or tell your friends that if they want you to come along they need to find a bar whose owner decided to make it smoke free. No one has a right to be entertained, and it isn't as if there aren't smoke free options.

Smoking is definitely unique in that it is related to health problems(though I think people need to keep the significance of second hand smoke in mind when discussing smoking bans), but I could make a comparison, if I go to a bar that plays loud music and my ears are ringing in the morning, next time I'll go to a bar whose owner decided not to allow obnoxiously loud music to be played.

* - and call the bar and tell them why you won't patronize their establishment.

Exactly, Tracer. I think it's part of why something like Playgirl makes just about every woman crack the hell up. Naked men, posing and trying to look all sexy? Laughable. A shirtless guy in jeans just standing there? RAWR.

Breathe...or, uh, no wait, that was a clever dig at your misspelling earlier...yeah, that's the ticket!

I can't remember the last time I went to a business that actually allowed people to smoke anyway. I was mostly bitching because of my own asshole friends who smoke in the damn car. I said I would drive us to the cottage. But no, Mark wanted to drive to the damn cottage and so since he's driving I have to sit in a damn smoky car, gasping for my damn life for two hours. Pull over and smoke, don't smoke in a tiny car when it's too cold to have the windows down. Well, I'll tell ya something, I'll be driving the next damn time.

Some Guy, thank you.

becks,
I got a friend. I let him smoke in my car, whatever. But that fucker rolls the window back up as he is exhaling that last drag. This means that the last quarter of the drag stays in the cars, hovering, lingering. That pisses me off so much. And several times, after a trip of about three hours he lights up when we're getting off the interstate, one fucking minute before I'm gonna drop him off. He's gonna be smoking half that cigarette on his porch. I don't mind my car smelling like smoke(I let him do it), but I'd prefer for it not to.

Fucker.

Wow, that Notes on Bar Napkins list is just chock full o' grimy hipster unattractiveness. Yuck.

Yeah...Lambert's act last night was a little much. However, his album is actually SURPRISINGLY good, considering the source and his Idol-alumn status.

Bar
A bar is a fucking bar. Plain and simple. You want to go to a place and drink in a smoke free environment? Go to a restaurant that has a "full bar." Not a pub...not a bar.

We already can't smoke in restaurants. We can't smoke in pool halls and bowling alleys. We can't smoke within a certain distance of the front door of most public places. We have designated smoking areas that are typically uncovered and non-heated. We can't smoke on airplanes (despite the fact that there are still ashtrays on the bathroom doors). We are getting taxed out the fucking ass. In Seattle I believe you would get fined $1000 for throwing your cigarette butt on the street. I can't even fucking smoke in Waffle House anymore!!

If I have to breathe in the pollutants from your fucking SUV's. If I have to smell your obnoxious fucking cologne or perfume. If I have to get a goddamn headache everytime you bust out your scented hand lotion. I should be allowed to have one goddamn public place where I can smoke a fucking cigarette.

By the way, Pull over and smoke, don't smoke in a tiny car when it's too cold to have the windows down.
That's awfully kind of you. Ya know, to make your friend, in their car, stop and pull over to smoke. Ya know, considering "it's too cold to have the windows down." That's nice. Make your friend stand outside of their car, in the cold, to smoke a cigarette. So kind of you.

Know what my job is? Researching lung disease. One of our better models is for Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease. Better known as lung disease. 'The' lung disease.
In the western world, 90% of cases are caused by smoking. In the developing world, it's split 50:50 between smokers and people who burn camel turds to cook their food. See, everytime you expose your lungs to smoke, you activate your immune system. Every time your lung's immune system is activated, it fucks them up, just a little bit. It sorts itself out, eventually, like the fever going away when your body finally defeats a virus.
Except if you have another cigarette. Then not only does that damage stay, it gets just a little bit worse. Eventually your lungs are scarred, hole-filled sacs of pus. Your muscles waste away. Your immune system's so utterly messed up that the HIV virus would back away, tipping its hat in a respectful manner. There's no cure, and treatment only holds off the inevitable, which is drowning in your own mucous. It's more common in the smokers themselves, of course, but there's been increasing evidence to suggest passive smokers can get it too. (Regardless, another model we do is for emphysema. Just 6 months of passive smoke give a mouse lungs that look like an emo's forearms).

So can I ask that we forget about the guy who wants a drink, and spare a thought for the person pouring that drink. Of course, everything I've heard about America's unemployment levels is a lie and these people can just get another job, right? It's not like they're breathing in other people's crap for 8-12 hours a day because it's the only way they can make a living, right?

Here's a novel idea, why don't all these non-smokers go someplace else? How about that? Have places that specifically cater to the smokers and non-smo's go the fuck somewhere else?

Well, I think ScienceGeek has pretty much covered it, but anyway:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-70966/How-passive-smoking-heart-attack.html

http://news.scotsman.com/health/Smoking-ban---slashes.5666424.jp

But that's just two articles. Google for passive smoking and heart attacks, you'll find report after report demonstrating that it's a risk factor for CHD, that there's no 'safe' level of exposure (the equivalent of one cigarette a day is enough to cause damage), and that smoking bans have reduced the incidence of heart attacks more dramatically than was expected. The bans are working.

It's not about a nanny state interfering in people's personal choice to smoke. It's not about the law supporting non-smokers' preference because of some 'moral judgement'. It's about saving lives. Smoking in public is indefensible in the face of the evidence.

And if it takes a law to make public places smoke-free, then so be it. Market forces can't be relied on for public health matters: non-smoking pubgoers and gig-lovers weren't exactly spoiled for choice in the UK before the restrictions came in. I know, I'm one of them. For non-smokers to just 'go the fuck somewhere else', there needs to be somewhere to go the fuck to.
Having smoking/non-smoking establishments would make that choice easier for everyone. But it would only be a fair choice if smoking bars were in the minority, like smokers (in the UK, about 22% of the population). And how do you enforce that?

Paddydog,
exactly! I love live music, but hated the gig smokers. Smoking in a dense crowd is very antisocial. Gigs are so much more enjoyable now that the law has changed.

pissant,

actually, smokers ARE telling people what they can't do. They are telling them they can't breathe smoke-free air - unless they go somewhere else. So they are dictating non-smoker's choices for them, just as much. The rights collide, but public health necessitates tipping the balance in favour of non-smokers.

Deist, I'll stand outside with him while he smokes. How bout that? By the way, all bars are smoke free where I'm from. So are patios. Thank God not everyone thinks like the few of you who are arguing or going out to public establishments would really suck.

The bars are all smoke-free where I live. There was an enormous outcry about it, and the bars across the border saw an upturn in traffic for a few months. Bar owners pointed to that as a clear indicator that this law was bad for business. After about 5 months though, the bar owners started withdrawing their complaints; not only were people too lazy to travel across the border to go to a bar, but also there was a marked increase in the amount of people going to bars. All the people who formerly did not go to bars because of asthma or because of the clinging odor started going to bars more, and since the smokers switched back to going to their usual bar, there was an increase in profit.

More people going to bars = more tax money for the government, so even removing the moral issue, I can see why this kind of law is becoming more widespread.

Also, if the vast majority of people were "deathly allergic" to peanuts then yeah, they should make peanuts illegal in bars. Though I don't see what that has to do with anything.

Having an allergy you can't control is not the same as having a habit that exposes others to risk. The problem is that when you smoke in public, it's not just your choice--you make it EVERYONE'S choice.

And people are allergic to all kinds of shit, so obviously you can't ban peanuts or any other product on the off chance it might hurt someone. People with allergies usually know what to avoid. Cigarettes, though? Pretty much bad for everyone.

Again, smoke all you want, where it's permitted, but don't get pissy because the rest of us would like to step outside our doors without being assaulted by a cloud of cancer-causing smoke. Or figure out a way to inject it directly into your veins, like heroin addicts.

I understand the general debates about the Governments takin over our
rights to this and that (It's a valid concern, to be sure. Just as a topic unto itself).

What I'm ever so curious about [warning - comment divert ahead] though is the seeming digging in of nails like a kitty going to vet, when it comes to "I'm a smoker, dammit". WHERE exactly is this pleasure, joy, satisfaction, nifty-ness, sexy-ness... in the smoking of cigs? Yes, science-wise you're getting the super-duper-happanin crush of a hundred chemicals to your brain and such, telling you that it 'feels good'.
But *really, what's so "great" about smoking? It's nasty, it's absolutely proven to be a life killer, takes a chunk of your money, leaves all your environment / belongings smelling like stink and most of all, makes you emminently un-kissable. Why keep doing it, when there are so many truly yummy things you could be doing with your time / money / habit type behaviour instead? To me, it seems so freakin *simple*.

Ms Mo Mo,
There are several reasons.

Some people like the smell. My Mom was pregnant with my oldest brother when she quit, and has probably smoked two cigarettes since then(30 years ago), but she still likes the smell. Of course, that could be a reaction to her remembering enjoying cigarettes. But, hey, some people love the smell of incense while some people absolutely hate it.

Though not as common these days, Hollywood glorified it for years. They also associated it with "bad" boys and girls and whatnot. People wanna think they're bad, so they smoke.

My grandmother started in school because it helped her stay up.

Some people don't mind kissing someone who smokes.

And while you're talking about "yummy" things, it's an appetite suppressant. So, some people use it to keep their weight under control(for looks and not health reasons probably).

Often, people start when they're young, and then find themselves addicted and find it very difficult to stop, despite actually wanting to. I smoked a cigarette when I was eleven because I liked to do things I wasn't supposed to do(still do like doing that). Luckily, I didn't smoke much, so I never got addicted. My co-workers, not so much.

But, a lot of your questions can be boiled down to starting when you're young for stupid reasons because you're stupid, and then being addicted when you're an adult. It's a stupid fucking habit that requires careful thought and bending of truths to find any "benefits".

Ick, and I even feel like that was worded too strongly. I started this conversation inadvertently. My 'rage' about the subject was actually mostly a joke and all of a sudden this is what the conversation turned into and I really didn't mean for all of the vitriol and sniping.

Peace pipe? (seems appropriate)

pissant I guess I don't get your point. You compared peanuts to cigarettes. One is a food that some people are allergic to; another is an airborne cancer-causing, albeit legal, drug. Peanuts are fairly easy to avoid if you're allergic; cigarette smoke, not so much. People who work in smoke-filled establishments, or someone like my cousin who lives in a smoke filled house because her parents are selfish assholes, have no choice. If the method of delivery only involved the smoker, I wouldn't give a crap. But smoke likes to move around. Unless I figure out a way to suddenly not need oxygen, I'm shit out of luck if someone blows cigarette smoke my way. This happens near the bus stop, on the streets, at the entrance to my workplace and most other buildings, and it pisses me off because once again, I have NO CHOICE.

Thanks, becks! It made sense to me...

Deadbessie - word.

No, pissant, it's not bullshit logic.
Ok, it would go like this:

I walk into 'your' bar.

Tarn: 'oh dear, it's really smokey in here.'
pissant: 'It's not illegal to smoke in here. If you don't like it, go somewhere else.'

So you've given me my choice: breathe smoke or leave. And that would be you telling me what I can't do - breathe fresh air in 'your' bar. I rest my case.

Actually, your explanation as to why my logic is 'bullshit' mostly consists of a longer version of 'go somewhere else'. It doesn't refute my statement.

It's a stupid fucking habit that requires careful thought and bending of truths to find any "benefits".

Couldn't agree more. I'd call it an addiction, not a habit, though. Habits don't fuck people up like that. I've lost friends and relatives to smoking. There are definitely (as I once saw on a t-shirt) cooler ways to die.
But if that's how you feel, why defend smoking in 'your' bar? I don't get where you're coming from. Smoking may still be legal, and a choice, but why stand up for a 'freedom' which is so fucking stupid?

Tarn,
So you've given me my choice: breathe smoke or leave. And that would be you telling me what I can't do - breathe fresh air in 'your' bar. I rest my case.

You would not be deprived of anything. You do not have a right to not be offended. You don't have a right to breathe fresh air in a bar. You would have the choice to go to any other bar of your choosing. I do have the right to do legal things in places that make the choice to allow it. So, laws would deprive me and the owners of our rights.

But if that's how you feel, why defend smoking in 'your' bar? I don't get where you're coming from. Smoking may still be legal, and a choice, but why stand up for a 'freedom' which is so fucking stupid?

You don't get where I'm coming from? Because it's a freedom. It's what we do in this country. I also stand up for people's freedom of speech to say things that infuriate me. I think people should be free to do things, and when those things get in the way of my preferences, I do my best with the situation. But I don't advocate denying people their freedoms so I can be comfortable. And I wouldn't trust anyone's intentions, no matter how much I agree with what they're saying, who doesn't feel the same way.

Pissant, if you're talking about freedoms, how does banning smoking in support of public health differ from requiring food to be stored at a certain temperature, or requiring that bars be liable if they don't cut a patron off after they are drunk? It is still the government impacting an establishment's autonomy, isn't it? Are you arguing against the health and safety codes?

As for your "Choose another place to go, nonsmokers", why can't the smokers just choose to smoke outside? If they are the ones choosing an unhealthy and dangerous behaviour, why restrict the nonsmokers? If both populations can't coexist, why should the ones not affecting the health of their fellow patrons have to stay away?

i love this site.