Pajiba

Not so much into the visual as I am the auditory and verbiage. And the Ewww factor involved in this story is well past pegging the meter.

He ain't likely pegging any meters with that thing anyway...

I'd really rather a gorgeous shot of some awesome, not-too-defined but definitely well-muscled abs. Now we're talkin'

I did my share of online dating prior to Mr. Meh and was blown away (yukyuk) byt he number of guys that sent me cockshots. That's it. No message, no text, no context.

Just a dick.

To me, this screams "I don't care enough/have enough brain cells to compse a literate message, so i'm just going to send a pic of my dick."

Instant delete, at least for me. I'm a personality/intelligence girl. I really don't care what you look like (although hygene is important).

As Dan Savage noted today: Guys who send dick shots are looking for women who like dick shots and the men who send dick shots.

It's like any other sexual activity - if you don't like [whatever it is], that's fine, but I'm looking for someone who DOES likes [whatever it is], and you're blocking the view with all of your judgements.

That being said - if you're in public office, Twitter is freaking idiotic.
~~~

Good column!

In my case, the answer is no. Never.

There are some women who may like or don't mind dick pix sent to them - usually it's from someone they're already involved with. I have yet to meet a fellow woman who welcomes unsolicited dick shots, though.

Great column, as usual.

The header (snicker) pic makes this worth sharing on facebook.

It's about as exciting as a medical illustration. I will never understand the appeal, and I've never known any woman who actually enjoyed getting dick pix, unless she was just screwing with the guy's head, figuratively speaking. The only thrill was getting a guy to do something kind of dumb just because you asked.

Shit, there's people who get aroused by the sight of bare toes, so I'm sure there's somebody out there who truly gets turned on by grainy photos of disembodied dicks, but it's sure not in my realm of experience. I put it up there in the same category of straight girls making out with other girls in bars as a way to titillate men. Doesn't make them bisexual, doesn't negate the existence of bisexuality. It's usually just another power game.

Leading with the pelvis is lame and unimaginative. I'm never impressed by the photo as I would be in person, but getting to that stage takes a bit more effort.

... made my want to gouge my own eyes out with a plastic spork.

Try a titanium spork. It helps. I know.

I'll take pictures of long, slender hands over junk shots any day. And, hey, if they happen to be household chore photos showcasing gorgeous hands, then I am totally find with those, too.

Only if a mustache is involved. Maybe a little hat.

People who send strangers pictures of their dick strike me as the sort of guys who try to justify rape.

I don't think the fact that Weiner looks like Patrick Bateman in those pictures is coincidental.

So a guy texts his underwear-clad junk to someone and he's suddenly a rapist and/or rapist apologist? What does that make all the women who take and send similar pictures of themselves? I'm not easily made uncomfortable by a comment, but Zuffle's jump of logic is a little disturbing.

I am taking a look at purchasing a 3d without glasses. Unsure if this can be the site to come but We have been informed you guys know what you might be executing, so I will have a very good glimpse round.

I like dick pics. Not unsolicited though. And while I like cock alone I prefer it when viewed with the entire man.

There are 3 billion+ human females on earth, assuming we know what all of them like based on what a few like is fucking stupid.

But I sure as shit do not dream of watching a man do housework. I wouldn't mind one coming over to clean my house (because I could use the help), but it's not my idea of hot.

Neither is a disembodied dick. It's somewhat interesting, but not really arousing. Everyone will look at a dick picture, because let's face it, dicks are kinda funny-looking, and everybody likes looking at funny pictures. But do I want to get one? Not really. If I did receive one, I'd probably do some Photoshoppin', add a face or captions or some other artistic enhancements, then send it back. Or release it into the wild and see what everyone else thinks of it.

Sending anyone a photo of your private parts unasked for, is gross. (Married people are exempt. Whatever makes your marriage work is fine with me.) Looking a pics of men's parts has never done it for me. I need to see the whole body, and preferably with the bits covered up. A man in a wellcut suit does it for me every time.

Unsolicited dick pics...well that's just completely creepy to me. Isn't it really just another form of flashing? Like just going up to a stranger (or hell, even a friend) and whipping it out. I guess if you're doing it to a friend...nah, it's still gross.

But... I don't... "the ugliest part..." I don't understand how you can be a straight woman and think a penis is ugly and silly. I work with a woman who thinks this, and thinks that a woman's vagina is beautiful. She claims to be hetero, but I don't believe her. (She also hates all of her kids because they're boys. She only has three because she kept trying for a girl.) Do those of you who feel this way have sex? How? I'm just trying to understand.

And Odnon, I think your penis is beautiful. *wink*

Silly?
Funny?
Ugly?

Seriously ladies?

Grow the fuck up.

Oh, get over it, all of you. Ladies, take it from me...you look no less ridiculous naked than the men.

I'm going to make a vague generalization here, and say that no one likes being laughed at, but for men it seems to be higher up on the "unpleasant" list than for women.

And by saying it's silly, funny, ugly, whatever, you're laughing at us. And it's not because it's the manhood, so to speak. It could be anything, nipples, butts, whatever you want to generalize about. It's pretty marginalizing. I'm not saying you can just change your opinion, but is it not cognitively dissonant and fairly disingenuous at all for straight women to mock the appearance of something that they appreciate?

The commonly expressed sentiments here, that penises look silly, and funny, and gross, are disappointing. Like several others (Odnon, DeistBrawler), I'm taken aback by this.

I'm not in favor of unsolicited harassment. But that's not the underlying issue here. Rather, it's that our culture socializes people to think that the male sex organ is both immensely important, and central to one's life as a man, but also silly and hideous, suitable for mockery.

That's frankly fucked up. That's fucked up on a level with the way women are told that Size 2 is fat, and that a healthy adult female body looks like a prepubescent girl with adult breasts magically tacked on (the Western ideal). If I thought perfectly normal women looked silly because they weren't shaped like Megan Fox, this community would be all up in my grill. I don't think that, incidentally, but there you go.

Why would people choose to view something that is innate to humans... something we don't get to choose for ourselves, but are born with... something roughly half of all the people who have ever lived had... something that was until very very recently entirely necessary for our survival as a species... as silly? Why would you choose that reaction? Why would our society reinforce this reaction?

I'm astonished to see so many people here expressing such a fucked up view. I mean, I'm glad for your honesty, but damn. That's an unhealthy and nonconstructive body view.

I'm cool with my body. This isn't about me or my life. But all you women who expressed this view... seriously, stop and think about how and why you feel that way.

And not to put too fine a point on it, to all the straight women who expressed this view, I feel sorry for the men in your lives.

True story, Figgy, but I think the distinction is that it wouldn't throw the "average" male into a tailspin of ontological proportions, like that lass in the header pic.

Nor would it spur a back and forth about the relative visual merits of ALL examples of said body part.

AVB-
You're not alone. I, too,am intoxicated by every line, angle and curve on a man's body, penis most emphatically included. (So much so that I had to delurk to comment, apparently.) Nothing pleases my senses quite so thoroughly as the male form in all it's glory, and a beautiful cock is a wonder to behold. And just plain hold. Among other things.
"So, three cheers for your willy or John Thomas, Hooray for your one-eyed trouser snake..."

P.S. Vaginas look hilarious, too, I just keep it to myself because laughing at someone's genitals is an insane, horrible thing to do.

QFT (Quoted for truth)
I myself was looking for the line Seth (Jonah Hill) says to that effect in Superbad.

I also find it weird that the analogous female part is always boobs, when comparing dicks to vaginas makes much more sense.

Perhaps the perspective of the 'silly' penis just comes from social conditioning. Our culture is saturated with images of nude or semi-nude photos of women, presented as objects of sexual desire, while the image of a naked man is most often relegated to porn. Which(and I know I'm generalizing) is most often sought out by men. I know I must have seen thousands of naked ladies before I caught site of my first full frontal dong. In fact I can't say I've ever really sought out penis pics not actually engaged in intercourse, and I don't know many woman who have. So the image of a penis, completely divorced from actual sexual activity, seems off somehow. I don't see them as gross or disgusting,though to be honest having to deal with the very real unpleasantness of being shown several shlongs with out provocation has perhaps colored my opinion somewhat.

However, in person, with my consent? The penis is a very arousing object indeed.

My apologies gentlemen, unfortunate word choice noted. That said, I think the majority of human body parts look kind of silly out of context. You could send me a picture of the most gorgeous nose on the planet, but without a face it wouldn't be anything but weirdly amusing. My point wasn't that penises are ugly, just that they are a million times more attractive (to me at least) when I can see what's around them.

I do realize that my first paragraph was stupid, and not something I should even think about, because it'll just end up in this big stupid circle where nothing gets resolved. But I'm not changing my view on how I think penises look.

And I'm not making generalizations, I want to emphasize that. I don't find a penis attractive on its own. I think most of them look ridiculous and I don't find a dick shot at all arousing. And I'm gonna agree with SPiz some more--most body parts look ridiculous out of context.

I'm sure there's plenty of women who like to look at penises on their own. I'm not one of them, and I'm not gonna lie and tell you that your dick is magnificent and beautiful to look at, because I don't feel that way.

Hee.

Also, in a country that has embraced circumcision as thoroughly as ours has, the "your natural penis is beautiful" thing is funny. Just sayin'.

If you're cut, your peen was altered to make it look less "weird," according to the odd standards of Western society. Obviously, you had no say in the matter, but the natural penis looks different from the altered one. Maybe men should think about that when they're expressing admiration for big fake boobs.

@Protoguy: "It's the same thing that goes on every day and is accepted. it's not ok with society as a whole for men to voice that they should be treated with the same respect that women scream constantly that they deserve."

EXACTLY!

There's a true double standard that arises sometimes in cases like this. I'll speculate that it came about as a backlash to the overwhelming power men used to have in Western society. In the last 100 years, women's empowerment has increasingly been embraced as a good thing by Western society; sexism against women absolutely still exists but isn't accepted openly. And yet in that same time, sexism against men has become more and more common, even expected.

I work in the cancer-fighting industry. Fun fact: there are more cases of prostate cancer than breast cancer. But breast cancer has the pink ribbon, and a whole month for people to be aware of the issue (October is, of course, National Breast Cancer Awareness Month). Prostrate cancer... well, we don't talk about it, do we? There's an advocacy group that few of you have probably heard of. There's no public support. It's just something that kills guys. No big deal.

And that's common for men's issues, truly. I guess we're a bit screwed here. On the one hand, there's the stupid machismo fighting against us: "Shrug it off. Be a man. Stop complaining." And on the other hand, there's the backlash against the institutional sexism that men used to benefit from so greatly: "Men have always had everything their way, so fuck you."

Sigh.

I happen to think the human body is amazing and wonderful. I certainly don't want to look at everyone's body, but in general I think of them as not only functional but beautiful. I think it's hurtful to hold negative views of basic anatomy; hurtful to you and hurtful to those around you. It's bigotry plain and simple, and that's always bad.

Your mileage may vary.

I'm not sure a true equivalency can exist in any case, as the sight of a bare male chest is almost never enough to raise an eyebrow

Exactly the point I was going to raise. There isn't really a true male equivalent to breasts. Though I'd argue that men are more willing to expose their balls than their dicks. Ever hear of "tea bagging?"

Slash, maybe I've missed the comment, but where has anyone mentioned the natural penis? I'm also under the impression that parents will have their boys circumcised because of perceived health and hygiene advantages. Also given that I've already stated that I don't find breasts and penes to be equivalent, I can't really understand how fake boobs and circumcision are in any way comparable. And in addition to your point about choice, fake boobs will be visible all the time, while a circumcised penis will only rarely see the light of day, even for the more adventurous (or perverted) among us.

Penises are pretty cool. I've never thought they were ugly or silly. They've done awfully nice things to me and for me.

But unsolicited genital pics are pretty uncool.

@Meaux- I'm still amazed that I was the first one to go there. Thanks for the love :)
@Socrates_Johnson- teabagging isn't as big here as I know it is in other places. I think the random dick to balls party exposure ratio sits somewhere around 3:2. Maybe it's a generational thing. I've definitely learned to never leave a camera or cellphone unattended anywhere though. Talk about your unsolicited junk shots...

@Socrates_Johnson: I've long had the impression that teabagging is more often performed in video games than in real life. I guess you could drop trou and wrap your hands around your penis, but in general, if you're exposing the scrotum, you're also exposing the penis.

And I strongly agree with your most recent post. What bothers me is the view that all penises always look silly, regardless of owner or context. That's simply an unhealthy viewpoint.

@Tae: Seriously? Have you ever had someone leave unsolicited junk shots on your (or a friend's or family member's) phone or camera? That's, um, surprising. And gross. I love looking at pretty women, but I'd be seriously creeped out if some woman left voyeur shots on my phone or camera.

I think one thing we all agree on is that there are times when views of naked people are not pleasant, for various reasons. Maybe we don't like the way the shots are framed; several people above have mentioned not liking to see a penis by itself, but one with some abs or thigh in frame is better. Maybe we don't like the shape or fitness of the person in the picture. Maybe we don't like to be exposed to, um, people exposing themselves. Maybe we don't know the person well enough to invite that intimacy. Even if we like looking at naked people of that sex though, that doesn't mean we want to see a given picture.

@thenomophilist: "Woman can love and appreciate men without praising unconditionally and offering up sacrifices to the mighty cock, goddamn."

Nobody has suggested anything of the sort in this discussion. That's an obvious straw man. Nobody is asking for sacrifices or appreciation; just a lack of mockery. I'd hope you'd appreciate that there's a real difference there.

"With regards to cancer and the like, this again actually falls under societal misogyny, because while it acceptable for females to support each other, cry, raise money and have prayer circles, men must stoically accept their fate and get their shit in order."

It's actually misandry.

Well, it occurs to me after a cooling-off period (entirely metaphorical, you understand, because it is HOT as BALLS in this place [see what I did there?]) that my second comment sounds AWFULLY judgemental of those women who do not find penii attractive, and for that I apologize. Certainly everyone is entitled to their own feelings about junk, mens' or ladies', whether they are men or ladies, and I should not take that away. I should have stuck with my original comment, which boils down to: "yaaaay penises! I heart you in all your forms!"

As far as the social acceptability of nude ladies vs. nude men, I think that breasts and even vaginae have always been regarded as more attractive than the old cock-and-balls. In softcore porny stuff I ....um, heard about when I was a kid in the late 70s/early 80s, there were tits everywhere and even some occasional pussy (though most of it obscured by 70s style bush), but nary a penis to be found. I personally blame Mattel for my complete and utter lack of preparedness the first time I saw a penis (seriously, have you boys ever stripped your sisters' Barbie and Ken dolls? I mean, you know girls have nipples, and their actual parts are tucked up inside, so it's less of a shocker than finding that boys look nothing -and I mean NOTHING- like a Ken doll. Well, for the most part). Social conditioning is a hell of a thing, on a number of levels.

Anyhoo, mainly I just wanted to say I'M SORRY to the ladies who don't find peens attractive for being all presumptuous (but I'm not sorry at all that I love penises). I partly blame the heat. I am a cranky-ass bitch when it's hot like this.

And Tae, I hope you come out of lurking some more. I think I like you. (I'd probably like you more if you had a penis, though. Stupid Barbies.)

@AVB-
Aww, shucks. *blushes*
Sorry about the whole "no wang of my own" thing, but I'll join your Penis Admiration Society any time!

This commenting thing is addictive...I may not be able to quit!

physical not psychical

RE "I'm also under the impression that parents will have their boys circumcised because of perceived health and hygiene advantages."

Please. Among non-Jews, circumcisions are performed for cosmetic purposes. There's no health or hygiene advantage to them. That those "advantages" are "perceived" doesn't make them any more rational.

I was just making the point that since most American males today don't have the penis they were born with, talk about loving the beautiful penis God/nature gave you for what it is is amusing. If this statement doesn't apply to you, you can ignore it. Rates of circumcision were 56% in 2006. They are declining, though. So eventually (if the trend continues), Americans really will be loving the natural penis. Or not loving it, whatever.

A picture of a disembodied penis is disconcerting. A picture of a disembodied vagina is disconcerting. Show me some context, and if it's good context, I'm interested. The penis by itself is just not sexy. Neither is the vagina. Nor the breasts. Look, if I asked my husband to send me a sexy picture and he sent me a shot of just his dick I would respond, "What?! NO. Gotta do more than just the dick, cutie. Lemme see some hip and waist. And maybe a sexy facial expression with a cocked (Ha!) eyebrow." He is more than just his penis; the sex organs are only part of the wonderful package, if you'll pardon a horrible pun. I think that bears saying again - there are a lot of ladies that are simply not interested in the penis simply for the penis' sake. Yes, dicks are great. I like the penis very much. When used properly the penis can help provide hours of fun. They can continue the human race, if that's how you choose to use it. But the penis alone, attached to a man that I have no interest in? A strange, utilitarian organ.

And any guy who dickrolls because he thinks that a random woman he knows is just going to be fucking bowled over by his awesome cock...well, yeah, most likely the woman will be bowled over. Just with laughter rather than amazement.

(Ok one more thing, but I'll note that it's off topic.)

I'd guess that the reason circumcision rates are declining is because people are realizing that the medical justification is bogus.

Yes, I was being hyperbolic about worshiping the peen. I guess I was temporarily incensed by my current reality whereby as a woman I am constantly confronted with ways I can 'fix' my sex. Too hairy? Doesn't smell like a mountain breeze? Fix that shit! Calling a peen silly by comparison, seems, well, silly.
With regards to how men are treated unfairly by not being able to fully embrace physical and mental hardships...*sigh*misandry. I'm just of the opinion this actually stems from the belief that to show weakness is to assume feminine traits, a wholly unappealing options for most of society, ergo misogyny. I do not think this means diseases that affect men are less important, just that the onus to bring light on those topics and make them better are the ones who don't like their current place in societal woes, instead of trying to take away focus from other organizations.

...and now I'm wondering wtf I was thinking de-lurking in this thread of all places. nemo out...

@thenemophilist: Yeah, there's certainly no shortage of that crap for women to suffer through. I in no way support that. However, there's a difference here: women are told their bodies are unpleasing until/unless they take certain steps to change them. I don't agree with the necessity of the steps but at least there's an option being offered there, however transparently commercial that option might be. Men are being told that a core piece of their anatomy is silly. We can't change that. Both situations suck and I won't defend either. I won't say it's worse for men. But I think it's worth pointing it out anyhow.

I hear where you're coming from re: whether men's ability to express emotions is a covert form of misogyny. The way I see it though, men are discouraged from expressing emotions openly; if we do express emotions we're mocked and belittled. We're the ones who suffer there. There's an institutional expectation that we'll only act in specific approved manners. That's sexism directed at men, aka misandry; no ifs, ands, or buts. Well, there might be some butts involved but never mind that. ;)

I appreciated your posts. I didn't always agree but I hope you won't relurk. Your views are very welcome.

Out of curiosity, is it Nemo the captain or the fish?

And for my final comment: For the record, I really do love the peen. I appreciate it and all the wonderful things it can do if wielded by the right person. Sometimes it can look rather...inspiring.

But I don't wanna see photos of it. That's all. I don't appreciate the aesthetic in most cases.

I know I can be quite incoherent sometimes and my comments may have come off worse than I intended them to, but that's all I was trying to say. I do apologize if I offended anyone.

And please, please, please don't forget this: Don't send your peen pics to someone who doesn't ask for them. And for the love of everything holy, don't send any of them over TWITTER.

That's just it. SOME peniseseses are awesome. And others are short and stubby and/or floppy and silly. SOME vaginas are slimy and foul. Then there are others that smell vaguely of roses that I would like to put my mouth to early and often.

People's naughty bits are as aesthetically diverse as the people who sport them, and there is the exact same enormously expansive range of peoples' appreciation of aforementioned naughty bits.

END OF STORY.

Thank you Figgy :) I agree with you on all points. I love ze penis. Really, I do. Just not strange, uninvited penis.

As always, Dr SPiz says it far more eloquently than I ever could.

this is all I got:

Who's your favorite Cock?
I love those Cocks, they turn me on
Who's your favorite Cock?
The Revco boys can get it on
Who's your favorite Cock?
The Revco Cocks rule the world
Who's your favorite Cock?
Yippi skippy yin yang yow

you have GOT to be kidding me. sexism against men? what the crap? are you serious? granted, everyone has body image issues and in a perfect world, we would always watch what we say and never say anything that might offend, but figgy expressed her opinion "that penises are silly" and suddenly it has turned into a group therapy session for all you put upon menfolk? ridiculous.

honest to blog, this bullshit "sexism against men" pisses me off the same way the "racism against white people" bs pisses me off.

sexism against men? DOESN'T EXIST. at least not sexism that counts for more than just hurt feelings. sure, bias, prejudice, whathaveyou may exist, but sexism? as in women wielding power over men because we think that men are inferior? DOESN'T FUCKING EXIST.

in this patriarchal ass society where women don't even make the same wage as men for the exact same work?
where women can't even get birth control for fucking FREE?
where women don't even have a say on whether to use their wombs as breeding camps?
where women fear for the safety anytime they walk alone in the dark?
where mississippi is kicking off its "conceived in rape" tour to educate women about how it's not really that bad to have a "rape baby" -- you know -- just make lemons out of lemonade?
where women are shamed if they are not a size 2, with a hairless vagina, and vaginaplasty to take care of those limp labia?

and i'm supposed to listen to a bunch of men complaining about hurt feelings because figgy said penises look silly? and, in an ironic twist, listen to men wax psychoanalytical about maybe there being something wrong with figgy's sexuality or the sexuality of those who don't fawn over a personless cock and inhale its infinite majesty?

OH MY FUCKING DOG. you have GOT to be kidding me.

get a fucking grip, and never let go.

Thank you, ScienceGeek. For the record, I have clinical appreciation at best for the disembodied anything. I just kinda took exception to some of the tangential shenanigans.

Thank You, but no I don't want penis sent to me via twitter. I have the opportunity to see plenty at home and if I feel the need to see more, which is not often, the internet is full of more than this little housewife would want to see.

Public officials should keep it in their pants. Wasn't the Mark Sanborn supposed to be the ultimate putz?

I just don't get sending naked pictures over the internet. Does everyone want to be a whore or a porn star? At least porn stars get paid.

My penis and I had a wonderful night, in case you all were wondering.

And bravo to everyone for this thread, except Angry Black Lady. That was, uh, not helpful. Ender said it far better than I ever could, and I have an idea of where you're coming from, but wow. Just . . . wow.

You're right. Sorry AngryBlackLady, that was rude, I'm used to a more robust blogging style, and was irritated by your paraphrase of the complaint that made it sounds very childish.

Hmmm... just a question: WERE the pictures Weiner sent to this woman (or *these women*) actually unsolicited? Because I was under the impression that it was a back-and-forth exchange between two people who were hot for each other. I've heard nothing of 'unsolicited', 'unwanted', 'harassment'.... Additionally, the weiner in question WASN'T actually 'disembodied', but both clothed and inclusive of some thigh. I feel like it's actually kind of rare to find photos an ENTIRELY disembodied peen; there's almost always a little something else, if accidental.

Also, please to remember that in *some situations*, *some of us* may enjoy a picture of a dick. Just a dick, with no other parts. I don't always need to see a face, or have it be someone I love's member. It may be related to previous conversation, or it may not. Sometimes, it just works. IT DOESN'T MAKE ME ABNORMAL OR WRONG. ...um, I mean 'us'. It doesn't make *us* abnormal or wrong. For a column/commentariat that generally tries to remember that, this is disappointing.

To each their own.

also, "...and now I'm wondering wtf I was thinking de-lurking in this thread of all places. nemo out..."
Posted by: thenemophilist at June 9, 2011 8:14 PM
NNNOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Don't do it. Don't re-lurk!

Thanks for proving my point about double-standards.

Simply because women are historically the focus of sexism is not proof that men can be the victim of sexism. Simply because men don't cry about it doesn't make it real.

Racism is racism and not just reserved for black people. Personally, I feel like the statement itself is racist. I think plenty of Jews and Muslims and Armenians and Serbians and Poles and Irish and Chinese and Koreans and Vietnamese would find your views pretty fucking repugnant.

For the record, I don't give a shit who finds penises silly or gross or whatever. I was just pointing out the double-standard, which I do give a shit about.

On a lighter note: it's ironic that men are proud of their cocks while the seemingly overwhelming number of women find them "silly", while women seem to be ashamed or embarrassed about their vaginas while the seemingly overwhelming number of men find them to be awesome.

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I get where Angry Black Lady is coming from. For men to use the word "misandry" in response to someone's opinion that penises look "silly" or "gross" is ... ridiculous.

Real misandry would be: "All men are assholes."

Still an opinion, but an opinion that says all men are a certain (negative) way, simply because they are men.

Some women's opinion of the appearance of the penis DOES NOT fall into this category. You may not like to hear it, but you don't get to call it "misandry." Seriously, certain words mean certain things.

If some guy, gay or not, wants to come in here and say that he thinks vaginas are gross, go for it. I might even agree with him, a little.

It's genitalia. It's not the window to your soul. You are more than your genitals. If someone doesn't like them or like the way they look, find someone who does. Better yet, try not to give a fuck what other people think of them. That's what I do. If a person standing in front of you is telling you your dick looks silly, you have a right to be insulted by that. If a stranger on the internet is telling you that dicks in general are silly-looking, for your long-term peace of mind, you should probably chill out about it and realize that IT'S A STRANGER ON THE INTERNET.

Also, many people seem to be suggesting that if something is not beautiful, or considered to be beautiful, it has no value. If you don't think the penis is beautiful, you must hate it and the person it's attached to. I wonder why few people seem to have a problem with this idea, which seems a lot more problematic than the "misandry" accusations that people are throwing around. Many useful, worthy things and people are not particularly beautiful, by limited human standards.

I'm glad that Natural Home Remedies found our information about emailing penis shots so helpful and informative! A cockshot a day keeps the physician's assistant away!

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Well, it's surely been an interesting discussion.

@Ender and Protoguy: Well said.

@AngryBlackLady: I generally like and agree with your posts, but... damn. I think you're really badly missing the point here. I don't believe anyone is saying that men have it worse than women in America, in terms of societal sexism. I don't think anyone is saying that white people have it worse than black people in America, in terms of societal racism. I surely wasn't saying or suggesting anything of the sort. It's obviously not true.

But please don't make the mistake of thinking that only the people who suffer the most have any suffering at all. Please don't discount the fact that bigotry exists in a lot of forms beyond the most popular and obvious.

I was truly startled to see you suggest that racism against white people doesn't exist. Seriously? Ever heard of the signs they used to post saying "No Irish Need Apply"? Ever heard a Polish joke? Ever read about the Holocaust? Ever heard anything about the Armenian genocide? Ever read or heard the words, "The white man is the devil"? Ever heard of the rather profound anti-Catholicism that bled over into general anti-Italianism in America in the 19th and early 20th centuries, leading to lynchings among other things (never ones to miss an opportunity for mindless hatred, even the KKK got in on that action)?

Nobody has a monopoly on being treated poorly by other people.

As a black lady, you surely have it worse than many people in terms of societal bigotry, but don't let that make you callous or blind.

@Slash: The misandry to which I referred wasn't women saying penises look silly. That's just an opinion, albeit one I think unhealthy in general; that's MY opinion though, in turn.

Rather, I was speaking of the societal pressures to only act in approved ways, as well as the associated value judgments about men's emotions. "Men are all X and should all act like Y" is a value judgment that leads to sexism. I don't approve of and don't support saying this about either men OR women, personally.

We're people. We're not just generic members of groups, none of us. Whenever someone tries to deal with and think of people as members of groups rather than as individuals, there's a risk of bigotry.

@Natural Health: Huh, I never saw it that way. Thank you so much for sharing your insights! You've changed my life. Your posts are a pellucid window into the nature of reality itself. Through careful reading of your posts I believe I have finally achieved bodhicitta, the first realization that inexorably leads to total enlightenment. Thank you so much, again! You are surely the Buddha of spambots.

Yeah! You tell him. "Someone in my Facebook group shared this site with us so I came to take a look".... Smells like bullshit to me. What a dick. I however am totally legit:

"If this comment is added to your webpage I just wanteed to say Iloved Your writingThanks!"

I've only recently begun examining my long held beliefs toward society's oppressive constructs, and while I certainly have a lot to learn and absorb, I've come up with a pretty simple equation:
discrimination+power=Oppressions such as racism/misogyny and ableism.

I think it's pretty common knowledge that every nationality or ethnicity can or have faced prejudice at some point. But the over arching theme across society? Has not changed. The same old, white, male patriarchal system is entrenched and firmly in place. Those with the power over our laws and regulations has not changed. I won't speak to other ways racism effects minorities daily, because I'm not one and it's not my place.

And the same with misogyny. It is far reaching, all encompassing concepts with very deep roots in Western societies(most all societies really). It is a tool of oppression that has been wielded for hundred of years that females are just in the last few decades managing to pry from the hands of power.

And misandry simply is not any of these things, which is why I put it's entire legitimacy into question. When you are insulted by the views of women, maybe examine the reasoning behind those views. Do they perhaps have a deeper context that is actually rooted in misogyny or social conditioning? Is what she saying necessarily oppressive to you and the men around you? Do her views have further reaching consequences than maybe being kinda annoying or vaguely hurtful? And I'm not saying it's wrong to be annoyed or hurt by blanket statements, but I think for those who are thoughtful enough, deeper examination is needed before attempting to take up the sword of social justice on behalf of your sex. Honestly, I see misandry, as a concept, about as substantial as a unicorn fart, but that's just me.

And now the spam bots have come and I feel really, really stupidly earnest about this discussion that started out as dick pix. Damn you spam bots!

(Note: Sadly, I don't have time to read to whole discussion that's taken place since this morning. This is in response to STM/ABL's initial post in the thread.)

ABL et al,

I’m not certain if any of you comments are directed specifically at me. Though as I am a man who has participated in this discussion, it’s probably safe to assume that somewhere between all and part of it does.

First where we agree:
1) Sexism is an odd place for this conversation to go. I said something about the conversation evolving, but I only meant evolving into one about the depictions and feelings about the penis (or even all genitalia) in general, as opposed to discussing solely it being depicted without context. I don’t think that is an unreasonable place for the conversation to go.
2) Misandry is small potatoes, and I don’t just mean relative to misogyny. It’s not something that occurs with great frequency or intensity. Sexism directed at men cannot even come close to comparing to the sexism that women have to endure.
3) This one is more a concession than an agreement I suppose. I earlier referred some of the female attitudes on the subject as insulting, and this is probably (well…almost definitely) taking it too far. That statement is probably more reflective of my own insecurities than anything else. To soften it up (giggle), I’ll opt for the term you used. It hurts my feelings.

Where you lose me is saying that misandry does not exist. Maybe you were just being hyperbolic to get your point across. On the list of issues we need to address as a society, it may rank somewhere in the hundreds of thousands, but it’s still there. The cases of testicular cancer and prostate cancer were two examples, albeit very specific ones. In fact, there really are only rare and very specific examples, but they do exist.

Now I’ll admit that I am a particularly sensitive guy, so maybe I’m taking your comments too personally. I experience large amounts of guilt related to my gender and my ethnicity. After all, not only am I a white guy, I am descended of English protestants. We’ve oppressed, literally, everybody. (I was going to say practically, but thought about it and realized that literally may actually be appropriate here.) I realize these are first world/white people/Y-chromosome problems. Guilt is far preferable to having to deal with real, systematic discrimination.

My mind has obviously kind of wandered here, both from the initial topic of the article and from where I started. Out of respect for your previous request regarding racism, I am happy to uncomfortably sit at the table with no conditions. Well ok, maybe one. Can I ask that not too much more guilt be heaped upon me than what I already do myself? I really, truly do try to understand the issues of sexism (and racism for that matter) from my outsider’s perspective, though I will probably never be able to completely do so.

Sincerely,
So-crates

PS – I apologize for both the length and off topic nature of this post, but the most recent comments hit me pretty hard, so I wanted to say my piece.

It's sad that Angry Black Lady has to laboriously explain the difference between actual sexism and racism and genocide on the one extreme and being offended by what someone said on the Internet at the other extreme. Especially to a bunch of (I assume) white people.

And also the difference between someone having an opinion vs. public policies and laws that significantly affect how people live their lives.

The Internet. It really IS serious business.

Now, people have the right to be offended by whatever the hell they read or hear. But they don't have the right to label it something it's not. We rightfully scorn ultraconservatives who use terms like "family values" and "right to life" as a means of making abortion or even birth control illegal or difficult to obtain. Or "protection of marriage" as a means of denying gay people the same rights as every other adult. People have a right to be opposed to same-sex marriage. But they don't have the right to redefine existing words in service of that opinion. Or at least they shouldn't be able to do that.

i do deal in hyperbole -- it's my personality and writing style.

i just want to reiterate that power is a necessary component of sexism and racism. a feeling that a group or gender is inferior is virtually meaningless without a power element.

take full disclosure, for example. many view that as an example of a woman wielding power over a men in a manner detrimental to the man. but when examined more closely, that movie actually reflects sexism: the primary reason that demi went crazy and exacted revenge is because she was jealous.

so while i agree that men have feelings that are capable of being hurt by anti-male sentiment (and rightfully so), i think that, comparatively, it certainly is not a prevailing attitude. moreover, it's is frustrating that a conversation about inappropriate behavior by men directed at women became a conversation about "men have feelings too."

i get similarly irritated when, for example, a discussion about affirmative action and whether it is beneficial and for what reason becomes a discussion about white people being done did wrong because some white person decides to share a story about how he didn't get a job one time, but he heard a mexican guy did, and he never discriminated against anybody, so why does he get the shit end of the stick?

that is all.

/not proofread (i could, you know, proofread it, but where's the fun in that?)

Ok, I believe I am the one who stirred the penis pot yesterday and have spent the last 24 hours following the hurricane that ensued.  Let me clarify. Or try. 
First off, I just found the question itself, and the header pic, to be rhetorical, leading, and framed to the negative, and rather gender exclusive for a co-Ed site.   What other way to answer but "ewwwww gross no!" I understand it completely in the context of dick rolling.  But it's when it moves from such context to general aesthetic statements that I took issue. There is a difference between a discussion about the appropriateness of sexting and the aesthetics of genitalia. 
Second, Figgy it was not meant as a personal attack on you, although it was you I directly quoted, but an overriding sentiment I have noticed throughout my life. I apologize if you took the brunt of what ensued.  
Third, I never meant it in the sense of "oh poor men".  Just that it was unnecessary in the context of the question, which I actually thought would have been better served as a statement. 
Men have body issues as well, that i think would be interesting to examine/discuss in ways other than mere "small penis syndrome".   Male psychology is more nuanced than "me fuck that". 
And all I meant was that it does indeed hurt to be kicked down there, and could we please avoid bringing that in to the discussion?  Dr P, it was an interesting subject. I just thought the positing of it ran the danger of hitting a minefield. And I fully admit to blowing up the first mine.  

"moreover, it's is frustrating that a conversation about inappropriate behavior by men directed at women became a conversation about "men have feelings too."

It only became that when it became obvious that we aren't expected to have as much feeling about these things as women do. And then to have it turned around and blame men for being too macho to admit they are bothered by it? THAT is more like blaming the victim than anything else that's been said here. The fact is that men don't say anything most of the time not because we're trying to be macho, it's because this is the usual response - that we don't have the right to complain or that somehow we don't want to be seen as weak for complaining. THAT'S that part that's bullshit.

It's already happened in two comment threads this week and it only fuels the feeling that we aren't allowed to express what we feel. That there is a double standard and one that's mostly based on someone else's behavior.

@Socrates_Johnson: "In fact I'd say for the most part, sexism directed at men is primarily perpetuated by men."

So. Fucking. True.

@ABL: "no irish need apply? the holocaust? anti-italianism?
not racism. why? because who was perpetrating it? black folks? asian folks? latino folks? folks who have traditionally lacked power in this country?"

This is utter nonsense. Racism doesn't solely come from one group and isn't solely directed at one group. Nobody gets to claim exclusive rights to being treated unfairly. If someone's denied a job because they're of a certain ethnicity, or is outright killed (lynching/gas chambers/genocide) for that same reason, then they've been exposed to racism. It's inane to argue otherwise.

And for the record, all of those groups you listed (Irish in 19th century America, Jews in Nazi Germany, Italians at the turn of the 20th century in America) were minorities being persecuted by the majority, so they were actually oppressed by your own definitions. So, yeah, that's racism no matter how you look at it.

I'm truly puzzled why you'd argue otherwise. Is it just a matter of rhetorical momentum, and once you got your argument moving it was hard to steer?

@Protoguy: "The fact is that men don't say anything most of the time not because we're trying to be macho, it's because this is the usual response - that we don't have the right to complain or that somehow we don't want to be seen as weak for complaining. THAT'S that part that's bullshit."

Bravo. Well said sir.

Nobody said you couldn't complain. But when some complaints are accompanied by the implication that if somebody doesn't appreciate the beauty of the penis, she's really a lesbian or hates all men, expect to get some flak for that.

And implications that men face as much sexism as women are probably also not going to be very well-received. I guess it depends on your definition of sexism, but in a country where the majority of people who run everything worth running have a penis, that's going to be a hard case to make, and we expect evidence, not just your feelings or perceptions.

Likewise the white vs. non-white racism thing. I'm only slightly less white than Queen Elizabeth, but even I see how ridiculous it is for a white guy in America to imply that white people face anywhere near as much racism as black people. It's so ridiculous, I'm beginning to suspect it's a subtle (or maybe not so subtle) trolling.

*steps in slowly and quietly*

...

*silently removes katana from sheath*

What the...Pajiba fambly drama be some shit.

*slowly backs out*

I...um...

No, Odnon. I don't have a pretty pretty princess penis. That is an actual katana. I use it for self defense, aggression, and checking my lipstick.

Though, I do love penis, and would like to have one. Penis Envy for one, please.

Racism is most certainly not solely about one group having power over another. It's also about the belief that one race is superior to another, whether that belief is expressed openly or not. You saying it doesn't exist kinda condemns your own words, as though being black and experiencing racism as a black person negates you from the possibility of being racist, that it somehow puts you above it, or superior to those who you feel have perpetrated racism: white people.

when you're able to respond to my comments without putting words in my mouth, let me know. because all of that crap? i neither said it nor implied it.

i can assure you, i don't need a primer on racism from you, and to the extent you're implying that i'm racist, you can (a) go talk to my mother's side of the family (as white and jewwy as they come, and i love them all) and (b) go fuck yourself.

"The fact is that men don't say anything most of the time not because we're trying to be macho, it's because this is the usual response - that we don't have the right to complain or that somehow we don't want to be seen as weak for complaining. THAT'S that part that's bullshit."

and why, pray tell, do you feel the need to try to be macho? could it be the prevailing patriarchal and sexist attitudes about how men are supposed to act?

give me a fucking break. your whole comment is dunder-headed and frankly not worth a response.

and by the way, in a thread where i'm discussing sexism in this country, it is the weakest of sauces to drag Amazon culture into the mix. that has nothing to do with anything here, but don't let me get in the way of your poutrage party.

i agree with everything slash has said. i add one thing -- racism and bigotry are two different things.

the definitions are often and easily confused.

@Slash: RE "Who implied that? I certainly didn't, and I don't recall anyone else doing so."
> "I don't understand how you can be a straight woman and think a penis is ugly and silly." (this wasn't yours, but you asked for an example)"

OK, fair enough. That does seem to imply that not liking the appearance of a penis suggests the woman in question has unsound judgment. I think it's a stretch to infer that this hypothetical woman must be a lesbian or man-hater, but I see how you could infer that. AvB apologized for saying that though, twice even, so let's call that one sorted. :)

"and this > "I think it's hurtful to hold negative views of basic anatomy; hurtful to you and hurtful to those around you. It's bigotry plain and simple, and that's always bad."

OK, now this one doesn't in any way imply or infer that not liking the appearance of a penis makes one a lesbian or man-hater. We can argue whether it's a form of bigotry to dislike - on principle and in the abstract - something innate to another group of people, but meh, I don't think anyone will take much away from that. I don't believe our definitions are really all that far apart anyhow, nor for that matter our actual views.

"RE Nobody said anything of the sort. I've tried to make plain that I personally don't see an equivalency.
> "sexism against women absolutely still exists but isn't accepted openly. And yet in that same time, sexism against men has become more and more common, even expected."
This sounds like an attempted equivalence to me."

It wasn't intended as an attempted equivalence, not in the least. I was trying to express that something deeply ingrained is slowly eroding, while at the same time something else is perhaps growing more common. Rather then try yet again to express in detail what I meant though, I'll just say, "Sorry, I wasn't clear. They aren't the same and I didn't mean to suggest that they were. I was trying to show that there are similarities without intending to infer equivalence. I should have phrased that better."

Peace.

***

Oh Natural Health, do you have any words of wisdom to share with us?

@AngryBlackLady

"i oppose prejudice and discrimination in all its forms. i will not sign on for group therapy because a woman floated her opinion that penises are silly looking."

That's fine. No-one asked you to. All they asked is that you don't just dismiss and completely delegitimise their experience of a widespread societal view that hurts them.

"seriously? in a world where men routinely send unwanted dick pics to women, your complaint is that i don't see the "penises are silly looking" as an overarching societal attitude?"

No, it's not. It's not my complaint at all. It's theirs, and the complaint is not that "penises are silly looking" is an overarching attitude - that's your description of what they're saying, and it is not accurate.
What they are saying is that there is a societal attitude that men are tough and never insecure, and don't care if the general opinion is that a part of their body is silly or disgusting and that is what leads to casual use of dick-demeaning humour where pussy-demeaning humour would quite rightly be considered to be offensive to women, and that they dislike this.
They didn't say it was the worst problem ever, they didn't say that no other people have problems, they just said they didn't like it.

"men can walk around with their shirts off in public, but women can't even breastfeed in public because it's indecent?"

They didn't say there were no other problems. Is this the oppression olympics?

"you men have written the laws, both spoken and unspoken. this whole argument is ludicrous."

This doesn't follow. Men can make laws both spoken and unspoken that harm men. They do it all the time, feminists are well acquainted with this phenomenon - they call it PHMT.

"look, there is a difference between racism on the one hand, and xenophobia, bias, bigotry and prejudice."

Yes, like I said, it doesn't matter what you call it, what they described is what they object to and it is reasonably objectionable regardless of whether you call it discrimination, bias, bigotry, or sexism.

"racism and sexism necessarily includes a power element. one group wielding power over another."

That's one definition. Like I said, it doesn't matter what words you use, so I will use your terminology.
Racism and sexism are bad, this is also bad, if it is not sexism then it is still bad.
If your complaint is that they are not using the correct terminology then you can make the case for your definitions, as you are now, but that doesn't mean that what they are talking about doesn't exist, and that you should be so dismissive and sneering at them.
Other people's problems don't make their problems vanish.

"there is nothing in my statement that is prejudiced"

Your prejudice is against men talking about how they feel hurt by society. They were talking about their own experiences and feelings, not saying that their suffering was worse than anyone nor saying that other people's problems don't exist - but you took this as an affront.

You think that it is weak and a "group therapy session" if men admit that a certain things considered acceptible in society make them uncomfortable, or upsets them.
Wherever that opinion comes from it's a gender normative opinion that you hold - that making fun of a man's most intimate region, something that is the focus of a lot of strong but mixed societal messages is something that shouldn't bother a man.
It's not sexist because you might think differently about a woman - we both agree men and women have different situations societally so the situations are not comparable. It's sexist because it buys into the male gender paradigm that demands boys be tough, not sensitive, certainly never shy about their genitals. Not all men are like that.
In the right context it is fine - if I'm ever in America I'll buy you a beer and you can relate all the cock jokes/criticisms you've ever heard, but when people object then it is not the right time. And it's certainly not the time to join the conversation and tell them that their opinion is irrelevant and silly because other people have it worse.

The rest of your post is either directed at other people or randomly bringing up people being misogynist as if that has any relevance to the complaint.

Re: Your next post-
You're not "the bad guy-- oops! girl", you just said something thoughtless and insensitive and are now refusing to take their argument seriously, which is obviously going to preclude you ever empathising with what they're actually saying, and either changing your mind or addressing your arguments at what they're actually saying and changing theirs.

"this affront against men is not a systemic problem. it's a few folks who got offended at what i see as an innocuous statement."

Does it matter? Actually 'dicks are ugly/silly looking' is a widespread belief. But it wouldn't matter if it wasn't.
This isn't about how many people say it, it's about whether a guy can express any other emotion than bravado about mockery of the penis without being labelled as having "a group therapy session".

Harm is harm whether or not it's systemic, and demeaning men for showing sensitivity or vulnerability, or having body image issues is not a progressive act. It's retrograde gender role reinforcing bullshit.

"so while i agree that men have feelings that are capable of being hurt by anti-male sentiment (and rightfully so), i think that, comparatively, it certainly is not a prevailing attitude. moreover, it's is frustrating that a conversation about inappropriate behavior by men directed at women became a conversation about "men have feelings too."

It doesn't matter whether it's the prevailing sentiment if it's done in the thread in question. The conversation wouldn't have taken a turn towards "men have feelings too" as you dismissively call it if people had not said things that played into normative gender roles by assuming men should not be bothered and if they happen to be bothered they should suck it up and not complain

not proofread either.

Such squabbling. I thought once we got rid of that awful troll "Telecom Plus Customer" everything would be wonderful. I am disappoint.

Lets take this another direction, as I was saying to my friend as we tested important medicines on baby animals "Abortion is definitely murder, also it is morally right to kill these animals as we need an alternative to vaccines which cause autism and get it done before catastrophic global warming, which is real, turns us into Kenyan Communists, which is also a real and valid worry, - the Rapture will sort us out in the end though",
"Yep" he replied. "Nothing debateable there. What a pleasant conversation"
"And as for the Muslims..." I began.

Please carry on in this unprovocative manner please.

They told you, “Don't you ever come around here,
Don't wanna see your head, you better disappear”
The laughter’s in their eyes and their words are really clear
So penis, just penis

“You better zip, you better stay in your pants
Don't wanna see no pics, don't be a macho man”
You wanna be big, better do what you can
So, penis . . . better get in that hand

Just beat it, beat it, penis, penis
No one wants to be deflated
They say you’re silly, you show your might
It doesn't matter who's wrong or right
Just beat it, beat it
Penis, penis, penis, penis . . . .

Do you have twitter? Great stuff by the way...

he truly is obnoxious and full of himself.