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Pajiba Dirty Talk: Why I Don't Sleep with Strangers (Often)

By Dr. Pisaster | Posted Under Pajiba Dirty Talk | Comments (43)



iSleepWithStrangers.jpg

In light of the opinion expressed by a number of people in both the comment section of my article two weeks ago and in a recent post on Dan Savage’s blog that the reason women are less likely than men to engage in anonymous, casual sex is simply that women aren’t as into sex as men (an opinion, which, amazingly enough, Savage did not promote in his actual post - bless him, he’s toning down the gender stereotyping!), I thought I’d offer y’all some insight into the mind of a lady who loves sex but doesn’t generally fuck strangers. I would (and someday will, promise) discuss research that investigates the differences in men and women’s sex drives, but I have a grant due and so I’m taking the lazy route of personal experience (lazy is going to be a theme in this post, btw). Of course, my experiences don’t apply to every woman out there, but at least they might give you an idea of why a sexually active and very sexually interested woman might not take the same approach to casual sex as your average man.

I have, as I’m sure you’re sick of hearing by now, a very high sex drive. If it weren’t for the male refractory period and the fact that while my spirit is always willing the flesh occasionally gets a little raw, I would probably never leave the bedroom. I have gone to great and sometimes ridiculous lengths to get laid. What I don’t do, however, is one night stands. Which isn’t to say that there aren’t guys I’ve slept with one night and then never saw again, but those were more like auditions for a lover that didn’t result in a callback than intentional one-time affairs. In general I prefer to have a guy on hand that I can count on for casual, no strings attached sex. I prefer this approach for two reasons. The first is that I’m lazy. Finding a stranger to sleep with involves getting dressed at least somewhat presentably, going out to a bar or other venue, finding someone who looks attractive and who is attracted to me, flirting, and then negotiating how things will actually go down. That’s a helluva lot of effort and there’s a chance it won’t even work out and I’ll go home alone and frustrated. I’d much rather be able to just make a quick phone call and have sex delivered to my door (free!) or, worst case scenario, travel 15 minutes to a place where I know sex will commence shortly after my arrival. Hell, I don’t even necessarily have to change out of my pajamas for that.

That part is pretty much a no-brainer, and I’m sure lots of guys would agree that in a perfect world they’d love to have casual sex-on-demand as well rather than going to all the effort involved in finding a new hook-up every time they wanted to get laid. The bigger issue, I think, is the second reason: with a fuck buddy, I know what I’m getting. Bringing home (or going home with) a stranger presents all sorts of risks for a woman that it doesn’t for a man. There’s always the chance of assault, for one. And there’s the fact that, frankly, I don’t know where that dick’s been. Even with condoms, sexually transmitted diseases are a possibility (and I have to use the non-latex kind, which in my experience are sadly prone to breakage). As Savage notes in his post, male-to-female transmission of STIs is more common than the reverse, and some of those STIs - like HPV - have potential complications that are more dangerous for women. In a no strings attached kind of affair, there’s more chance to determine the health status of your partner, and no need to worry that each new hookup brings a fresh chance to catch something. The most important part of knowing what I’m getting, though, is that I know that the sex will be good enough to leave me satisfied.

I cannot stress that enough. For a lot of men (though certainly not all), sex with any woman that they find attractive will likely result in satisfaction, for women, this just isn’t the case. I get off about as easily as it is possible for a woman to. Under the right conditions, I can have an orgasm from heaving petting. And yet, I have slept with guys who couldn’t manage to ring my bell at all, and others who were good enough to get the job done (barely), but not to leave me craving more of their company. The study I cited two weeks ago was exactly right: the chances of my sleeping with someone depend greatly on whether I think they’ll be good in bed, and its really hard to know how good a guy is going to be without taking him for a test run. I can’t count on picking up random guys in bars to lead to great, or even okay sex. On the other hand, if I’ve already had sex with a guy and know he’s good, why not use that knowledge to advance my own pleasure by continuing to sleep with him? There’s also the benefit that the more you sleep with someone, the more they learn about your personal turn ons and are able to adjust their technique to suit your tastes. Sex with any given person tends to get better with practice. So I practice.
If I have a choice between putting in lots of effort but not knowing how good the payoff will be, or putting in minimal effort for what I know will be a fun time, why the hell would I choose the former (especially given the lazy)? The thrill of something new pales in comparison to the frustration of discovering the hot guy you picked up doesn’t last for more than 5 thrusts. Not to say that men never have this problem of bringing home a dud (probably more than they admit, since half the fun of sleeping around is bragging rights), but generally I think women are less likely to assume up front that a random guy in a bar is going to be good in bed. Even if the goal is pure sexual pleasure and nothing resembling a relationship, it’s a better strategy for women to find someone who knows how to please them (which for a lot of women requires an investment of time and repeat sessions), than to try a bunch of random guys in hopes that some of them will happen to hit the mark. So I have lots of sex, even when I’m technically single, but I don’t have it with lots of men. Not because I don’t like casual sex, but because I’m strategic about how I engage in it.

Dr. Pisaster has a doctorate in biophysics, not actually anything sexy. She does however enjoy having sex, reading about sex, and talking about sex. Especially when she’s had a little whiskey.









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Comments

RE "The most important part of knowing what I’m getting, though, is that I know that the sex will be good enough to leave me satisfied."

This. I don't know if men think that just having a dick is good enough or if they just don't care (I suspect it's a combination of both), but many men (most? I'd like to see a large survey on this) seem to think that sex automatically = fun time for everyone. But from what I've observed/heard, it's fun time for him more often than it is for her. Why they think this shouldn't be a part of the whole "casual sex" calculation, I can't imagine, other than the two reasons I suggest above. Why the fuck should women risk disease and/or pregnancy for what is as likely as not to be a mediocre sexual experience?


RE "In a no strings attached kind of affair, there’s more chance to determine the health status of your partner, and no need to worry that each new hookup brings a fresh chance to catch something."

Um, really? I might concede the "more chance" part, but the "no need" part? If he's banging more than one person (and it that appears likely in these kinds of arrangements), seems to me the chances of contracting an STD are more than 0%.

Posted by: Slash at March 23, 2011 4:42 PM

Pretty much all I have to say is: Yup.

Sums it up pretty clearly.

Posted by: Sara Tonin at March 23, 2011 4:43 PM

Nice blanket, Slash.

You're hanging around the wrong guys.

Posted by: Jay at March 23, 2011 4:51 PM

And is there research on how men don't like familiar partners, as you're stating?

Posted by: Jay at March 23, 2011 4:54 PM

This is why I used to employ Ex Sex quite a bit. I knew the guy, I knew where he'd been, but I did still insist on condoms since it was understood we weren't exclusive, but just sex buddies.

Condoms always, people.

But yeah, stranger sex can get you killed.

Posted by: Not My Real Name at March 23, 2011 5:12 PM

From my (I don't know if it's fortunately or unfortunately) very limited experience comes this question based on my ignorance of the answer:

How high is the likelihood of bad sex in a random hook-up? And how does one define bad sex? I've always wondered, as I've had both good luck and then a now-ten year monogamous relationship.

Anyone?

Posted by: leuce7 at March 23, 2011 5:15 PM

An audition? Jesus, get real. You wanted some sex and you got it.

Posted by: maka at March 23, 2011 5:27 PM

I have, as I’m sure you’re sick of hearing by now, a very high sex drive.

Are you reading the same Pajiba I am? Because the only thing I'm sick of is not hearing more details of the high sex drive...

At the risk of breaking the macho stereo type, honestly (other than some anatomical inaccuracies) this post could have been written by me. Yes, even men exist who are a) highly sexual and b) refuse one night stands.

No, it's not a case of rationalization of lack of opportunity. I'm just not very turned on by the concept of very disposable sex. And I don't find sex satisfying just because a woman is sexually attractive (in fact, my worst sex on record was with a woman who arguably was the most attractive sexually, in terms of visual characteristics and behavior). This even extends to things like strippers - I have had to explain to a girl more than once, that a woman in a bar, no matter how attractive, taking off clothes for me in exchange for cash is just not sexy. SHE may be, but the setting diminishes it to non sexy. On the other hand, an average (appearance) woman I'm interested in doing the same for me privately is an immense turn on.

I think this is true of many more males than studies or personal experience leads you to believe, because it is countered by a strong drive for males to show sexual dominance socially; I have known guys would let it slip that they had sex with this or that girl, and if you knew them well enough, could tell it was unrewarding emotionally. The basic biological drive has a lot of power.

-Frob

Posted by: frobme at March 23, 2011 5:37 PM

Careful, leuce, that almost sounds romantic.

Posted by: Jay at March 23, 2011 5:50 PM

Dr. P wrote, "Bringing home (or going home with) a stranger presents all sorts of risks for a woman that it doesn’t for a man. There’s always the chance of assault, for one. And there’s the fact that, frankly, I don’t know where that dick’s been."

Erm. Both of these risks exist for men, too. You don't usually express yourself in a sexist manner so this surprised me.

Are women more at risk of assault? Sure. Does that mean men have no such risk? Please. Crazy people can be scary, and can present real risks, regardless of their sex. I'm a tall muscular guy but that doesn't mean I'm comfortable with letting strangers into my home. ;)

Are women at more risk of STDs? No, the risk is exactly the same.

Posted by: foolsage at March 23, 2011 6:08 PM

and no need to worry that each new hookup brings a fresh chance to catch something

No need to worry? What if they are having unprotected casual sex when they aren't having sex with you?

Posted by: pissant at March 23, 2011 6:13 PM

RE Jay: "Nice blanket, Slash."

I said "many" and then "most" with a question mark. If you have research that indicates otherwise, please share. If not, lighten up, Francis.

Posted by: Slash at March 23, 2011 6:42 PM

I have a lover. A 'Friend With Benefits.' He is not my boyfriend, I am not in love with him, but we really enjoy each other's company. We were friends for several years already, and decided it was silly that we should both be hanging out all the time, single, and NOT getting laid. The sex is pretty good, (better now that I have broken him of some of the stupid shit some EX taught him). I think what is VERY mutually beneficial in our situation is that it is very safe for us, and not just in the 'stranger danger' way. He and I want different things in life, we already know that. He is not in a place in life to get involved in a real long term committed relationship, and I am not really ready for that again either. We both have a tendency to become too invested in a relationship too soon, so knowing that this is unlikely to ever be more than it is is a good way to practice staying independent. We are both casualties of long term relationships which left us pretty beaten up and leery. We can be in a caring friendship with one another, which happens to involve sex (now, it didn't for years) and while WANTing to be with each other, we don't NEED each other. All the cards were on the table from the beginning. DADT is in place. Expectations are managed. Aside from looking forward to some fun stuff to do together, there are no 'where is this thing going' issues. It is all right here, right now. And it is a little sad sometimes, but life is too short for loneliness. Of course I want the big passionate love, but sometimes caring companionship is what one needs. Just having a soft place to lean, and someone to share with.

Posted by: Cecily at March 23, 2011 6:48 PM

Truthfully, as foolsage indicates, the number of men killed through online hookups (leaving aside what Boy George did to that rentboy), assault against men from effectively anonymous hookups is pretty damn possible.

Savage could have gone a lot of different ways in that particular commentary, and I, too, was surprised at his comparative restraint. He's gradually learning to cut down on the personal projection in his advice.

Posted by: Jerry at March 23, 2011 7:10 PM

To build on what foolsage said, I find the idea of turning the focus of a complete nutjob onto you with the baggage of the sexual encounter is scarier than a one-time physical assault (within reason, and of course I'm saying this from a man's perspective). Someone who might call you incessantly, call you at work, do their best to break up future relationships out of malice, generally fuck with your program for a good long while if not the rest of your life. That and the STDs are what always scared me.

Cecily- I wish you the best of luck and it sounds great, but I bet you dollars to doughnuts somebody ends up getting attached and wanting more. ESPECIALLY if you and this guy have a lot of conversations like your post about how cool it is that you have this arrangement and it works because neither of you have any interest, etc.

Posted by: Eep at March 23, 2011 7:36 PM

I said "many" and then "most" with a question mark.


*sigh*

Posted by: Jay at March 23, 2011 7:52 PM

Oh, I never said it wouldn't end in tears, it probably will. But most 'relationships' DON'T end in some long term commitment, and even those that do end due to circumstances beyond your control sometimes. This is not my first time on this ride. My greater point was that the FWB thing can be what people need at the time. It may not be what you always need, and keeping it between grown ups who can put the cards on the table is important. I am not ruling anything out with him, but I also have reasonable expectations. Fear of getting hurt (again) keeps us alone too often, learning not to overinvest too quickly is probably a good thing. Plus, sex is fun. So we should probably do that. As safely as possible.

Posted by: Cecily at March 23, 2011 8:02 PM

For sure, and equally I was not advocating against it or trying to spoil your fun, there are times when I would have killed for something similar, it just seemed like you were saying "this is a stable thing going forward indefinitely until one of use finds someone at which point the other will politely bow out of the arrangement because we talked about it and we're on the same page." Obviously that's not the case and you know what's up :-)

Posted by: Eep at March 23, 2011 8:17 PM

This is what writing things while distracted gets me - you're right, foolsage, I should have said the danger is greater for women, not that it doesn't exist at all for men. There's always some risk, regardless of your sex. That said, Eep your comment seems pretty horrifying to me. Sexual assault, even if it doesn't go as far as rape, is often incredibly traumatic. Incessant phone calls from an obsessive type don't even come close. I'm just gonna assume you didn't think that one through completely before posting.

As far as the STI risk in NSA arrangements, I'm assuming that 1. you vet the NSA partner well enough to choose someone who will use protection when sleeping with someone else and 2. most guys are, like me, lazy enough that they'll choose calling up the ready and willing girl over going out and trying to find someone new. That's how it's always worked out for me, but different situations involve different levels of risk.

Posted by: dr. pisaster at March 23, 2011 8:21 PM

Dr. P-
I wasn't thinking in the right terms. What I was thinking doesn't even make sense in my head anymore, but rest assured that even in those thoughts I did not mean to say that rape or anything approaching it is preferable to being stalked. I think I should have been trying to say something about stalking being the greater fear because of the higher probability.

Posted by: Eep at March 23, 2011 8:49 PM

Also, and not to undercut the seriousness of the discussion, but it may have something to do with the fact that I've been slamming Coke Zeroes all day so my thumb will fit in my bowling ball tonight. True story.

Posted by: Eep at March 23, 2011 8:56 PM

most guys are, like me, lazy enough that they'll choose calling up the ready and willing girl over going out and trying to find someone new.

In this context, what exactly is lazy about preferring a good time with a friend?

Conversely, what the hell is appealing about trolling for genitals? I'll not be told by anyone it's what I naturally prefer. I mean, I know there's cynical, sexually callous people here, but damn.

Oh, I mean, sheeeeit, man don't mind huntin' fer a hole. Long as he gets himself one, he's good! Hey, grab me a beer on your way back.

Posted by: Jay at March 23, 2011 9:12 PM

Or rather, I just don't get people like that. Besides, if one just masturbates there's no unpleasant person to awkwardly get away from. Seems pragmatic to me. Efficient.

Posted by: Jay at March 23, 2011 9:22 PM

I know I'm late in this thread, as usual. I just wanted to say: yes.

Posted by: Rest In Peace at March 23, 2011 10:00 PM

A number of people have mentioned that they think the risk of contracting an STI is the same for men as it is for women. I thought this for a long time, but then I did some in depth research. It's actually a higher risk for women, when we're talking about a heterosexual couple. Basically, without getting too graphic, it's a mechanics thing. Women are physically receiving bodily fluids into a body cavity that is built for intake, while a man comes into contact with a woman's bodily fluids through his skin, a membrane built to keep things out.

Of course, when we start talking about non-hetero sex, all this goes right out the window. Also, I don't think a lot of women are aware of the fact that their chances of getting an STI from an unprotected heterosexual hook-up are greater than the chance she could pass something onto the guy she's hooking up with, so that's probably not related to why more women don't sleep with strangers.

That said, a lot of women are becoming more aware that STIs in men are more likely to go undiagnosed, and have less severe repercussions. This isn't because of male of female behaviours, but because physical symptoms of STIs are more pronounced for women and occur earlier, and some STIs in women will cause pelvic infections and go on to impact her reproductive system, this is relatively rare for men as far as I know.

Sorry, this is such a weird thing to get all ranty about. I blame the combination of an undergrad in biology and a wild, but well researched, university experience.

Posted by: Tits McGee at March 23, 2011 10:23 PM

Foolsage, I'm pretty sure that women are at greater risk of getting HIV from a male than vice versa since women are more likely to have small tears. I imagine the risk for men and women for getting HIV is equal for receptive anal sex, however. A man having sex with a woman is at the lowest risk (aside from a woman having sex with a woman). This is for HIV, not sure about other diseases.

Also, Dr. Pisaster, I am not sure what non-latex condoms you're using but I was under the impression that the sheep's skin (?) condoms don't protect against HIV. I could be wrong but I would be curious about what the non-latex condoms you're using that ALSO protect against HIV/STDs.

I really enjoyed this article and think your points are pretty excellent and make so much sense!

Posted by: petalfrog at March 23, 2011 10:31 PM

Aaaa-men. Every single casual "one night stand" I have ever had has ranged from "blah" to "downright awful." Didn't take long to figure out the success ratio was so poor it wasn't worth the bother.

Posted by: peachfish at March 23, 2011 10:31 PM

How can I find some of this "sex" of which you speak?

Posted by: , at March 24, 2011 1:06 AM

doctor, you said it. that is my sex strategy to a T. and its brilliant. whiskey all around!!

Posted by: amandita at March 24, 2011 2:05 AM

Thank you, Dr. P, for putting my often drunkenly and incoherently expressed thoughts into concise and witty terms yet again. Good luck with the grant and happy tumbles!

Posted by: cinekat at March 24, 2011 4:45 AM

@petalfrog:

Wikipedia is your friend.

"In the modern age, condoms are most often made from latex, but some are made from other materials such as polyurethane, polyisoprene, or lamb intestine."

So, plastic, basically, if you want protection from (tiny) viruses and are allergic to latex.

Posted by: Walter at March 24, 2011 8:02 AM

You know, the test drive thing got me thinking. It's really disappointing that we don't have some kind of verifiable sexual resume you could bring out at the right time to seal the deal. We really need an app for that. I pride myself on my skills in the bed room. I've rarely had a dissatisfied lover and the only time I've had a one night stand was on vacation. I tended to run into a roadblock when going from "friends only" to "dating", in fact I have never pulled that off. However, I've been told more than once by those women later that if they had known then what I was like in the sack they would have changed their minds. This is after they had talked to various exes of mine and I had randomly come up. I tended to date in the same circles too, which made things a bit dicey at times.

So yeah, a sexual CV would have really helped to smooth the way I think.

Posted by: TylerDFC at March 24, 2011 8:54 AM

sheepskin....ew. *shudders* What Walter said, petalfrog. I use either Durex Avanti Bare or Lifestyle Skyn, both of which are polyisoprene. The Bare's seem a little more sturdy to me, but they still break a lot, unfortunately. Putting lube on the penis before putting on the condom does help prevent it some, but I only learned that trick fairly recently.

Posted by: dr. pisaster at March 24, 2011 9:10 AM

I can have an orgasm from heaving petting.

*scribble, scribble*

Oh come on, now I have to study a new type of pettting? Waht is that, third and a half base? i feel up the shortstop? Argh!

In all seriousness, I need to stop reading these. Not because they aren't informative or fun, but because they make me a fucking nervous wreck. I already got plenty of sexual hangups, I don't need to be reminded that it is up to me to pleasure another person who body fuctions in quite different ways than mine (becasue on jackasses care only about their own rocks getting off). I just don't see how guys are supposed to be so gung ho about sex when so much can go wrong. Maybe I am just not egotistical enough to buy my own hype.

Is there any research into that, may I ask? It is amusing and frightening to me that while women are judged mased on appearance, men are the ones who actually have to perform. While the media is designed to make women feel fat or ugly, it is also designed to question a man's sexual prowess and talent at every turn. Sometimes, I truly do forget who is actually runing the world around here.

Jesus, I am glad my mom already has grandkids, because I am frankly scared shitless.

really disappointing that we don't have some kind of verifiable sexual resume you could bring out at the right time to seal the deal. We really need an app for that.

Yeah, like a CarFax....

"I once got a new lover, but found out I was sold a bill of goods here. htat is why I check all my potential humpbuddies though FukFax! Just submit their SSN to the FukFax database, and you can get a comprehensive sexual history on them! Tuneups, bodywork, and more; everything at my fingertips! And with their new Stem-o-meter, their researchers can accuratly determine the tonguing skills of any of the millions of folks listed in an easy to read and highly informative chart!

And with constant updates, international searching, and linkup to Craigslist, I sleep easier, confident that I won't have anasty surprise in the the morning!

So remember, the next time that spicy number cleaning the pol gives you the eye, make sure you say, 'Show me the FukFax!"

Posted by: Vermillion at March 24, 2011 11:21 AM

Wow. That last comment was riddled with typos. I apologize to smakcing everyone in the brain with such horrible typing.

I'll go sit in the corner.

Posted by: Vermillion at March 24, 2011 11:24 AM

It's really disappointing that we don't have some kind of verifiable sexual resume you could bring out at the right time to seal the deal.
---
Isn't that what video cameras are for?

"Check out the 47:29 mark and let me know if you'd like to buck and thrash and scream like that. I'll be in the kitchen mixing drinks."

Posted by: , at March 24, 2011 11:30 AM

To those who pointed out that women are at higher risk of contracting STDs, thanks. I didn't realize that but it does make sense.

I was mostly surprised by the implication (clarified and retracted) that men are never at any risk over one night stands. Surely I'm not the only one here who's seen Fatal Attraction. :D Plus I've also had two women I dated later stalk me, one in an innocuous manner, one that made me uncomfortable enough to change my schedule around so I wasn't where she expected to find me.

Posted by: foolsage at March 24, 2011 11:50 AM

While I agree with all of this generally (as always, because Dr. P is awesome), I'm actually sometimes a fan of one night stands. Usually it's when I'm without a FWB and I want to get laid, but sometimes, I really do prefer one-nighters, even if they are (almost always - there is one very notable exception, and hopefully that will someday become a more-than-one-night stand) less satisfying. I tend to get bored and crave variety in my life, so sometimes one-time sex satisfies my desire for novelty. And sometimes, I just really don't want to deal with ANY baggage. FWB situations usually require communication, some level of friendship, and entail some level of obligation to one another. A one night stand requires NOTHING beyond sex and a polite farewell. I'm always careful - I always bring guys back to my place, not vice-versa (except that one time, but since he was a friend-of-a-friend, I worried a little less and just made sure the mutual friend knew where I was going) and only when my roommates are home.

That said, I have a cautionary tale to add to all of Dr. P's concerns. I brought a guy back - a nice guy, really, insofar as I could tell. But we were both a little drunk. I thought I was really clear about condom use, but apparently not. So he actually put the condom on - I watched - but apparently had some trouble with it and removed it. I, unfortunately, was too drunk to notice. So…yeah. I'm on birth control, I got tested, all is well, but MAN it was scary the next morning when I realized what had happened. So ladies sleepign with gentlemen: always remember that the guy has more control than you do over condom usage, and be vigilant. It's just one more thing that makes one night stands slightly riskier for us womenfolk.

Doesn't mean I stopped having one night stands though. I'm just even MORE careful about condoms now.

Posted by: GwenBear at March 24, 2011 2:42 PM

foolsage - have no fear, you can still get STIs, get someone pregnant, get stalked, sexually assaulted, or beat up by a girl's crazy ex, it's just a bit less likely to happen. Frankly (and I know that this might just be a can of worms we just don't want opened), when it comes to pregnancy, in my opinion, men have more risk than women because you have half the responsibility and no decision-making power.

Oh and to add insult to injury here - the percentage effectiveness they put on contraceptives is the "theoretical effectiveness" not the actual effectiveness, which is generally much lower. So the theoretical effectiveness doesn't take into account human error. For example, condoms say somewhere around 95% effectiveness against pregnancy. Actual rates are closer to 80%.

I should speak to high school assemblies. My tag line would be: Informed Banging. Lessons from the front line.

Posted by: Tits McGee at March 24, 2011 11:30 PM

*Actually some of those things that I listed are probably just as likely to happen to a man as they are to a woman. Such as crazy exes. They seem fairly gender neutral.

Posted by: Tits McGee at March 24, 2011 11:34 PM

I don't say this often, but Tits McGee, you're wrong.

Sure, you could argue that men theoretically have "half the responsibility" of an unintended pregnancy, but that's crap. A man might have to pay some child support. Might. Assuming he's either a decent human being or the woman is willing to go through the cost and difficulty of court proceedings to ensure that he does. That's all the responsibility that is required of a man - and that is in NO way half. Women, on the other hand, have to face either the emotional toll (and I'm pro-choice, but there is an emotional toll - if nothing else from having to face anti-choicers protesting) and physical toll of an abortion; or they have to go through nine months of being pregnant - morning sickness, hormonal changes, giving up part of their social life, watching their body swell like a balloon - while they face the judgment of the world for being an unwed mother, and then give that child up for adoption; or they go through the pregnancy, and then have the rest of their life changed by raising a child. And she will be the one raising the child, almost every single time, not the man. Half the responsibility my ass.

Moreover, men do have some decision making power - not over an abortion (and they shouldn't - a woman's body is hers, period) but a woman can't give a child up for adoption unless the father - if he is known - agrees. I know this because someone I knew had an accidental pregnancy, wanted to give the child up for adoption, but couldn't because the father wouldn't agree. He was kind of a shithead, so she didn't want to give him full custody (and I doubt he would have taken it,) so she has been a single mother since 18.

So I'm going to go ahead and say it: you're wrong. Men don't have NEARLY the risk of women with an unintended pregnancy. It's not even in the same ballpark. I'm not saying that, if he's a good person and wants to be involved in a child, that a man doesn't have some risks. But he has a CHOICE about the risk, about how much he wants to be involved, or how much responsibility he'll take. A woman has no choice about the risk, and very few choices at all in an accidental pregnancy.

Posted by: GwenBear at March 25, 2011 2:49 PM

GwenBear - I agree with almost everything you have said. I didn't express what I was trying to say very well, and looking back, the way I put it - I was wrong. I'm not even going to qualify it, but I will explain what I was trying to say in the first place.

My point was more around the fact that men may not have a say in the amount of responsibility that they are allowed to take on if something unexpected happens, and that, to me, is a HUGE risk. Men who want to father their kids, really be involved as a full-fledged parent, can have some serious barriers to doing so legally. The "risk" I was referring to was the risk that you aren't able to take responsibility and be involved in your child's life, not the risk that you will be forced to do so (or the risks associated with pregnancy).

I should probably add that where I live and in my experience, unwed mothers are rarely shamed, there aren't protesters at abortion clinics, there is health care, and a year's worth of maternity leave benefits through employment insurance programs. That's not to say it's easy for single mothers where I live or even easier compared to men - it's not, but the societal support for men isn't nearly as embedded as it is for women in these situations.

As for the emotional toll, I'll have to disagree with you a little bit there. Obviously it is huge for women, but the emotional toll can also be very high in these situations for men. I couldn't possibly compare it to a woman's because it's just so different, but it's certainly not negligible.

Here's the thing. Risk is very subjective, and there are a lot of factors that go into each person's perception of risk; I should have been way more clear about what I meant and what risk I was referring to, though I just sort of meant it as an aside.

Posted by: Tits McGee at March 25, 2011 9:11 PM

Tits McGee - I'm still not sure I entirely agree, but that makes a lot more sense. Thanks for clarifying!

Posted by: GwenBear at March 27, 2011 10:14 PM