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Pajiba Dirty Talk: Feminism: It Ruined Everything, Even Sex

By Dr. Pisaster | Posted Under Pajiba Dirty Talk | Comments (36)



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Have I mentioned to y’all that you can’t necessarily trust that just because someone has the letters “Ph. D.” after their name doesn’t mean they’re not full of shit? (Yours truly generally excepted, of course.) For example, in a recent Psychology Today blogpost, a couple of Doctoral types hold forth on how feminism has ruined sex for women (because it was generally so awesome when we weren’t supposed to want it or request that our own sexual needs be met instead of just servicing men). According to these gentlemen, the reason so many more women experience problems with arousal is because gender equality prevents them from being sexually submissive, which of course most women would find fulfilling if they could just get past the whole equality thing. Leaving aside the fact that no true believer in gender equality would presume to tell another human being what they should or shouldn’t like in bed (assuming that said activities involve consenting adults), their arguments are not exactly convincing, and I say that a fiercely feminist vagina-haver who happens to thoroughly enjoy being submissive in the bedroom.

The authors never actually state why feminism makes women less submissive in the bedroom, though presumably it has something to do with modern women being uncomfortable with the notion of sexual submissiveness to men (some of them are, but many are able to reconcile equality and submissive bedroom tendencies). Or possibly because feminism emasculates men, making them less comfortable with dominance and less attractive to their mates (I would argue that it makes them more considerate of whether their partners actually want to be dominated). They simply give a couple of (weak) arguments that women are naturally sexually submissive and men naturally dominant.

Let’s unpack the arguments, shall we? The authors note that sexual submission is incredibly common in erotic literature directed at women. This was particularly true in the era before the 70s and 80s, in which “forced seduction,” i.e. rape but the heroine has an orgasm from it, was a common theme of romance novels marketed to women. The authors would have it that this is because the majority of women get off on this sort of fantasy. While it’s true that many women have rape fantasies, the underlying desire behind them can range from a wish to be humiliated and punished to a desire to ignite such a strong passion in someone that nothing will stop their lust, not even vigorous protest. And it’s generally agreed among people who study these things (they exist, honest) that the forced seduction trope was borne not of a deep understanding of female desire, but from the need to give readers the steamy sex scenes they craved while also populating these novels with the type of good girls who would never actively desire sex (but who would often enjoy it once it was forced on them). The fact that these types of romance are not common anymore and that many women are uncomfortable with them even as romance novels continue to be one of the best selling genres in the world, indicates not that modern women are in denial about what they really want, but that they no longer need to pretend that good girls don’t (unless forced). On the other hand, erotic fiction directed toward men is often focused on male dominance, but I see no good argument for why this isn’t as affected by cultural influence as the bodice rippers of the recent past. Porn styles have changed dramatically over the past few decades, are we supposed to believe that it’s because men’s biological preferences are constantly in flux?

The authors also point out that the females of many species -Norwegian rats for example - exhibit submissive behavior during sex. This behavior (which the authors are at least honest enough to explain in a footnote is not the same as social submission - this, at least, is true for humans as well.) is controlled by a part of the brain that also controls submissive behavior in primates, and the authors extrapolate these findings to human behavior, though they fail to mention any studies that actually demonstrate this (actually, they kind of fail to directly cite any studies at all). Animal models are certainly useful for studying underlying mechanisms that might explain human behavior, but I don’t personally think it’s safe to draw any hard and fast conclusions about how human sexuality works from even our closest relatives, chimps and bonobos, let alone rats. As the authors note, both sexes have the necessary hardwiring for both submissive and dominant behavior. Their assumption seems to be that in humans, as in rats, which circuits get activated is based on genetics rather than external factors such as culture. (Even in rats, these things aren’t necessarily set at birth. Mother Norwegian rats spend more time grooming male offspring. Simulating this higher level of grooming by tickling female offspring results in these offspring displaying typically male characteristics. Not everything natural is genetic.) The fact that many men get off on being sexually submissive and many women enjoy dominance would seem to indicate that this wiring is not necessarily set in stone for either gender, even if there is an inherent bias toward different directions in the two sexes (And do I need to mention yet again how flexible and adaptable human behavior is comparison to most of the rest of the animal kingdom?).

Having earned a higher degree does not make one an expert on everything, and one of the things it very rarely provides is insight into how the other gender experiences sex. While feminism may make some women question the nature of their sexual desires, such self-examination is not necessarily a bad thing, and most feminists are perfectly capable of distinguishing their sexual preferences from their social status. Some women do have rape and submission fantasies, maybe even most women, for the reasons mentioned above as well as others, but those are personal fantasies, and thanks to feminism women are more empowered to ask for whatever they want sexually in order to realize those fantasies. Whether they are the product of genetics or culture is impossible to unpack, since humans don’t grow up in a cultural vacuum, but it doesn’t really matter. If it gets you off and genuinely makes you happy and doesn’t hurt anyone else, on a personal level there’s no real need to understand why. Just fucking enjoy it. Regardless of what women want in the bedroom - submission, dominance, or anything in between - we have more freedom in a post-feminist world to demand it. Feminism hasn’t killed sexual submission for women, it’s made it more possible for women to enact their submissive fantasies while remaining in actual control of what happens to their bodies. The authors of the piece state that, “Negotiating sexual politics has always been difficult, but paradoxically the laudable and necessary victories of gender equality activism might make it even more challenging.” That’s only true if you consider it “more challenging” when both halves of a couple have a say.

Dr. Pisaster has a doctorate in biophysics, not actually anything sexy. She does however enjoy having sex, reading about sex, and talking about sex. Especially when she’s had a little whiskey.









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Comments

Countdown to Diestbrawler having an orgasm over that header pic....
3...
2...

Posted by: Lindsey with an 'e' at April 13, 2011 4:53 PM

*drools*
*faints*

Wait, what is this article about?

Posted by: DeistBrawler at April 13, 2011 4:55 PM

...1.

Posted by: Lindsey with an 'e' at April 13, 2011 4:55 PM

Yeah, I kinda get off on being forced, but darling hubby doesn't, so I can't say I'm very satisfied. He likes me to be the forcer. I mean, we both like the same things, but I can see the idea of "opposites attract" working a little better in the bedroom.

Posted by: BWeaves at April 13, 2011 5:02 PM

sometimes i like to be "overtaken" and he likes to be forced. More often than not he is being "forced" to "cheat" on his "wife".

Posted by: blacksred at April 13, 2011 5:16 PM

Sexuality as we know it -- i.e., beyond its absolutely most basic manifestation -- is a completely learned behavior. Anything humans do sexually that rats or elephants don't do, is learned, and can be unlearned, or changed, if desired -- and often quietly DOES change, as cultures change and evolve.

Posted by: Anon at April 13, 2011 5:18 PM

Sooo, they're saying women don't have good sex because they're not allowed to be submissive?

riiiiiight

Posted by: Protoguy at April 13, 2011 5:27 PM

and seriously; Romance novels are a part of their argument? How wide a slice of the female side of humanity are we sampling here? I realize it's a big market, but one made up of mostly cat-collectors and hefty single women. Hardly an 'average' sampling. Kinda like watching Bridzilla and deciding people want their weddings to be a disaster.

Posted by: Protoguy at April 13, 2011 5:35 PM

mostly cat-collectors and hefty single women.

You have no idea what you're talking about.

Posted by: Jay at April 13, 2011 5:47 PM

I like to think of myself as a pretty self-actualized woman who has embraced feminism, and I LOVE being submissive. Love it. And I have no problem requesting it from my guy, who equally enjoys dishing it out. And as for the erotic literature? I personally find it hysterical that it was used seriously in terms of a scientific study, and think that it really represents the innate desires of the novelists who wrote them. The women who read the books certainly enjoy the type of sex portrayed, but that doesn't mean that they too were not feminists. I'd think that many of the readers were just sating their own fantasies, feminist or not.

Posted by: Julie at April 13, 2011 5:47 PM

And yeah-readers of romance novels aren't necessarily fat and cat lovin. They're women. Most women. I don't know any girl my age who hasn't read them for fun.

Posted by: Julie at April 13, 2011 5:49 PM

Good lord...I'm speechless that such crappy scholarship still exists and actually gets published. greadsfaoiublknadsaerwbbbb....so angry can't even type.

Thanks for the counterpoint!

Posted by: Alarmjaguar at April 13, 2011 6:14 PM

This right here is why I constantly rail against Psychology Today. Useless piece of crap rag might as well be sold next to US Weekly.

Posted by: (Not So) Blonde Savant at April 13, 2011 6:33 PM

Anon, a very basic understanding of primatology would indicate that there's a WHOLE LOT to sexuality that is NOT learned. The physical structure of our bodies alone is absolutely loaded with information about our sexuality without getting into neurotransmitters and receptors, hormonal influences, and half a dozen other strong influences on our behavior.

Now, we have a big, steaming mess of additional, largely mental stuff going on around sex, but there was a lot of invention inbetween rats and elephants and us that remains very relevant.

Posted by: ZombieScientist at April 13, 2011 6:36 PM

I don't suppose it's occurred to these geniuses that of the women who complain about unsatisfying sex, it's probably because most of the men they have sex with are not good at it.

I'm sure most of the women aren't that good at it, either, so it's not a gender thing, it simply reflects the fact that if people fuck as badly as most of them drive, for example, there are a LOT of people doin' it wrong out there. Or doin' it just OK, not great.

Posted by: Slash at April 13, 2011 6:36 PM

This so called "study" is so ridiculous that it's laughable. It's just a shame that things like this actually get published instead of just being tossed in the paper shredder like they should.

Sometimes I do get off on being submissive, but that's while I'm a consenting half of the partnership who is in control of the situation. Acting out a submissive fantasy every now and then doesn't mean someone isn't a feminist, on the contrary, it means that we've reached a point where we can understand our own sexuality and our turn-ons and ask for what we want in the bedroom. Sheesh.

Posted by: beckster at April 13, 2011 6:43 PM

@jay yeah, it was admittedly a throwaway line I immediately wanted to edit, but there it is.

Bugged by my choice of words or not, it is still not even close to a representative sampling of sexually active women.

Posted by: Protoguy at April 13, 2011 7:06 PM

cat-collectors

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41763121/ns/health-pet_health/

I can't find the original article I read on this study (it was in a local Spanish newspaper), but if you do some digging the research really seems to stress that these women experience fulfilling emotional ties with their cats, and aren't just lonely and crazy.

Posted by: coryo at April 13, 2011 7:20 PM

Unfortunately, a lot of these links are broken, but Ogi and his partner brought us Surveyfail about a year and a half ago.

Far be it from me to impugn...you know what, fuck it. Not only are these two fools, whoever bought their book at the publisher was a fool, anyone who buys their argument is a fool, and anyone who pays them to do anything ever again is a fool...

And I'm a fool for spending the time to look that link up. Damn it!

Posted by: sistercoyote at April 13, 2011 7:35 PM

I spent the whole day being a sanctimonious prick (sanctimonious c*nt? That sounds nastier that I want to go) on other blogs and then I read that headline and was ready to go all out irritated...and then I read the article.

Thank you, Dr. Pisaster. Heartily.

Oh, and Protoguy? Don't be that guy.

Sincerely,
A married, cat-hating romance reader.

Posted by: leuce7 at April 13, 2011 8:00 PM

mostly cat-collectors and hefty single women.

Damn! Do I have to give up my collection?

The more feminist a romance novel is the more I like it. The rapey-ness of old school novels is downright off putting. There are a lot of progressive authors out there writing romance novels populated by heros and heroines who are decidedly feminist in their approach to sex and relationships.

Now that women have re-claimed the romance genre it is starting to reflect the desires of the audience rather than impose a patriarchal, hetero-normative version of acceptable sexuality upon them.

Additionally, perhaps feminism has simply enlightened women who have non-feminist partners to the idea that they deserve to have good sex and not view their partner's satisfaction as sufficient. I wonder what they would say if they studied the sexual satisfaction of self identified female feminists partnered with other self -identified feminists of either gender?

Of course, they didn't actually study anything besides their own navels in the first place...

Posted by: FyreHaar at April 13, 2011 8:02 PM

Cat collectors?

I'm married, two kids, sexually satisfied, and I read some MA rated Dramione to get myself ready for hubby sometimes...

Posted by: Huh? at April 13, 2011 8:38 PM

That’s only true if you consider it “more challenging” when both halves of a couple have a say.

and this is why you are awesome Dr. Pisaster.

Posted by: susie derkins at April 13, 2011 9:15 PM

Suddenly I really want to bake pie.

But, really, thank you for taking apart that silliness so beautifully.

Posted by: Shibuyama at April 13, 2011 10:22 PM

It ESPECIALLY ruined sex. Now I always have to pretend I'm up for it, and that I like shoes and ugly clothes and shit. Goddamn Sex and the City bitches.

Posted by: Laurie at April 13, 2011 11:13 PM

If they are using romance novels as evidence (seriously?), I'm curious about what they'd say about the fact that Mills and Boon/Harlequin currently produces roughly seventy billion different 'series'.

It's no longer just 'romance novels', like in the 70's. There's now an entire sliding scale from 'sweet' (kissing) right through to 'Blaze' (Bondage and role play and sex toys, oh my!).

Actually, since I've mentioned those Blaze novels, they were in DIRECT response to publishers who sold hard core novels in which the female protagonist did things you'd usually only find with the google SafeSearch turned off. These books were so popular, it scared the biggest publishing house in the world into releasing their own version. What do you say about that, Psychology Today?

Posted by: ScienceGeek at April 14, 2011 12:11 AM

Having worked in a bookstore for almost three years, I picked up on various things regarding genres I would never have previously given a second of my time to contemplate the large slice of consumers for a given demographic. And while there is a strong representation of cat lovers and large ladies that are fans of the genre, romance has a broad demographic (I'm not sure if that pun should be intended, but I'm leaving it in anyway). There are quite a lot of women that shop that section that consider it a guilty pleasure, and are somewhat embarrassed to identify themselves to a male checking them out. But its kind of the same audience buying books out of the teen fiction area, which for the most part seem to be using the same formula just the ages have been changed to protect the innocent.

However the bulk of the monthly released series romance books (i.e. your harlequin romance novels and the like) are predominantly purchased by that stereotype... most of those books have the most ridiculous titles/plot paragraphs on the back... my favorite judged strictly by title alone is "Preg-nesia." Here's the blurb from amazon...

"Former navy SEAL Lucas Washington was an expert at tackling impossible missions. But when a striking--and very pregnant--woman turned up in a car he was repossessing, suddenly he was in over his head. Shaken and bruised, she couldn't remember what had happened to her or why she was terrified of going to the police. Lucas made it clear he could be trusted, and vowed to protect her until she was safe. Hours turned to days as they searched for clues to her hidden past. Then a family came to claim her, and a happy ending seemed imminent. But had he just delivered his Jane Doe to safety...or into the hands of a killer?"

The google search I did to snag that had a review from the good doctor's link
http://www.smartbitchestrashybooks.com/index.php/weblog/comments/pregnesia-by-carla-cassidy-guest-review/

Posted by: protoformX at April 14, 2011 2:02 AM

So, why isn't the woman in the header pic also barefoot and pregnant? (Well, she could be pregnant, but definitely not barefoot.)

I like my cliche stereotypes fully realized, dammit!

Kidding aside - that was kidding up there - there's a strain of "feminism" from Dworkin & company that has, indeed, ruined sex and pretty much every other human interaction for the folks infected by it. Once you assert that all sex is rape - actual, true, "rape-rape", not nudge-nudge, wink-wink kind-a rape like if you're a famous Hollywood movie director and the under-age girl is drugged & in the business - anybody who actually gets off on, well, getting off, is more than a little twisted.

None of which makes the Psyche Today blowhards any less wrong. There's plenty of room on the wrong-bus for them and Dworkin. Then they can have a mindless demonization cage match, while the wrong-buss rolls through Thunderdome & we sell popcorn.

Posted by: BierceAmbrose at April 14, 2011 2:21 AM

Having worked in a bookstore for almost three years, I picked up on various things regarding genres I would never have previously given a second of my time to contemplate the large slice of consumers for a given demographic. And while there is a strong representation of cat lovers and large ladies that are fans of the genre, romance has a broad demographic (I'm not sure if that pun should be intended, but I'm leaving it in anyway). There are quite a lot of women that shop that section that consider it a guilty pleasure, and are somewhat embarrassed to identify themselves to a male checking them out. But its kind of the same audience buying books out of the teen fiction area, which for the most part seem to be using the same formula just the ages have been changed to protect the innocent.

However the bulk of the monthly released series romance books (i.e. your harlequin romance novels and the like) are predominantly purchased by that stereotype... most of those books have the most ridiculous titles/plot paragraphs on the back... my favorite judged strictly by title alone is "Preg-nesia." Here's the blurb from amazon...

"Former navy SEAL Lucas Washington was an expert at tackling impossible missions. But when a striking--and very pregnant--woman turned up in a car he was repossessing, suddenly he was in over his head. Shaken and bruised, she couldn't remember what had happened to her or why she was terrified of going to the police. Lucas made it clear he could be trusted, and vowed to protect her until she was safe. Hours turned to days as they searched for clues to her hidden past. Then a family came to claim her, and a happy ending seemed imminent. But had he just delivered his Jane Doe to safety...or into the hands of a killer?"

The google search I did to snag that had a review from the good doctor's link
http://www.smartbitchestrashybooks.com/index.php/weblog/comments/pregnesia-by-carla-cassidy-guest-review/

Posted by: protoformX at April 14, 2011 2:29 AM

ProtoformX Thank you for that link. Thank you from the bottom of my snarky, romance-reading heart.

Posted by: ScienceGeek at April 14, 2011 3:23 AM

Romance novels? Love 'em. Hot damn, nothing gets me off like a nice steamy wad of Dostoyevsky.

...

Good article.

Posted by: zeke the pig at April 14, 2011 4:48 AM

My favorite part of the study is the assumption that anyone has only one way they want sex. As a man, women assume I'll take it any way I can get it. While that is extremely correct, it's really only as a means to get started. Once I'm going, I'll flip you around or bend you this way and that to satisfy whatever position/act/perversion that strikes my fancy. Okay, our fancy (but mostly my fancy).

And I agree with BWeaves about opposites being ideal in the bedroom. Mrs. Kballs is much more submissive, and luckily has no trouble reaching orgasm (thus reducing a possible need to be dominant and find release in more aggressive actions), and trusts me to make pleasurable decisions. I don't generally enjoy the submissive role, but sometimes it's nice when she tackles me and goes to town, so there's that.

Posted by: Kballs at April 14, 2011 8:15 AM

Regarding the header pic, let's see here:
Red hair? CHECK
Tats? CHECK
Leggy? CHECK
Big tits: CHECK
Bonus question: Knows how to cook? CHECK

Yes, I believe we have a Fivefecta. Happily I already married one of those but damn that is a fine pic.

Posted by: TylerDFC at April 14, 2011 10:02 AM

you get that psychology today is not a peer reviewed journal and the reporting of things that might have been mentioned in peer review journals is probably no more accurate than the average tabloid reporting of things said in peer reviewed journals because that's what psychology today is? Its glossy and has psychology in the title but that doesn't mean it isn't badly produced toilet paper

Posted by: random internet goon at April 14, 2011 11:44 AM

As it says in the second sentence, this is a blogpost I'm referring to, not a study. Just to clarify, these guys don't present any experiments to back up their claims, they're just pulling arguments out of their asses.

Posted by: dr. pisaster at April 14, 2011 12:50 PM

Well, Dr. P, there is plenty of precedent for that in anthropology. Most of it appears to consist of choosing which data you want to cite and which data you want to ignore to build the best basis for your personal belief system.

Posted by: ZombieScientist at April 14, 2011 2:51 PM