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Is There a Correlation Between the Shape of a Woman’s Lips and Her Ability to Have an Orgasm? No, Jackass

By Dr. Pisaster | Posted Under Pajiba Dirty Talk | Comments (29)



12joliepoutylips.jpeg

Mark it in your calendars everyone: Today is the day I lost all faith in the Journal of Sexual Medicine as a reputable source of information. I am sure by now you all have come across this latest study that “finds” a correlation between the shape of a woman’s lips and her ability to have a vaginal orgasm. This paper … is not good science. It’s not even fun, entertaining sorta-science. It’s a rage inducing pile of crap so laden with misogyny and misrepresentation about women’s bodies and psychology that I’d be surprised if the authors have ever personally even been in the same room as a genuine female orgasm. I cannot for the life of me figure out what the editors and reviewers at JSM were thinking. (Oh wait, yes I can, they were thinking of the shiny, shiny headlines). I hope you all are in the mood for some figurative blood and guts, because I am about to rip this motherfucker to shreds.

The setup: 258 women, mostly Scottish, mostly university students, answered an internet survey that asked about their sex lives and orgasms as well as their lip morphology. Specifically, they were asked about their ability to orgasm from various activities, including PIV (that’s shorthand for penis-in-vagina) with clitoral stimulation, PIV without clitoral stimulation, clitorally focused masturbation, vaginally focused masturbation, masturbation with vibrator, clitorally focused manual stimulation by a partner, vaginally focused manual stimulation by a partner, and receiving oral sex. It’s not really clear which of these behaviors “counted” though, since the authors define vaginal orgasms in the introduction as “orgasm induced by penile-vaginal intercourse without concurrent clitoral stimulation,” (Rage mounting …) and at one point quip that women who had not had PIV were excluded from the study because they might “have the endogenous characteristics required for vaginal orgasm but have not yet found an appropriate man.” (Remember ladies, your orgasms don’t count if there wasn’t a penis involved!)

The questionnaire also asked the women to look in a mirror and evaluate the size of their tubercle. That’s the little bit of flesh at the center of your upper lip. In some people it’s raised and prominent while in other’s it’s barely noticeable. The authors of this study hypothesized that the prominence of a woman’s tubercle would predict her ability to orgasm vaginally (from a penis, even!). Why did the authors suspect this little bit of anatomy might be linked to orgasms? Who knows. They certainly don’t bother to explain, nor to justify why they would care about whether a woman orgasms vaginally or clitorally, so loaded is their writing with the assumption that vaginal orgasms are just … better. Because they involve the almighty penis. Sometimes. They do point to some previous studies which find links between the way a woman walks and vaginal orgasms (swaying hips means you don’t have to use your hands or tongue, for all the handless and tongueless men out there), and between “immature psychological defense mechanisms” and an inability to orgasms vaginally* (I have a not-particularly noticeable tubercle and emotional intimacy issues, but my hips swing like a hypnotist’s pendulum and I get off every which way. What does that mean, SCIENCE?). The authors also argue that it would be of value to basic science to know if there are prenatal factors which could influence how a woman gets off. Again, the only reason I can think why that would matter is if you think only vaginal orgasms “count,” or if you want women to be confident in the knowledge that how they get off is a function of the way their specific body is built and not a sign that they are doing something wrong. Since there’s jack shit in this paper that would lead me to believe that the authors are interested in helping women enjoy sex lives unencumbered by societal pressures to experience their bodies in a specific way, I’m gonna guess their motivation was the former.

And now to knock that shit down: The paper concludes that women with more prominent tubercles are more prone to vaginal orgasms. Their results, specifically, were that women with a prominent, sharply raised tubercle were slightly more likely to experience vaginal orgasm consistency in the past month, whatever that means (mean 59.31%, standard deviation 41.57, sample size 32. Dear authors: YOUR STANDARD DEVIATION IS 41 ON A SCALE OF 100 AND YOU ONLY HAVE 32 DATA POINTS. I don’t care what statistical acrobatics you pulled to make that sound significant: This is bullshit.) Women with prominent, gradually raised tubercles, were also slightly above average (mean 54.63, s.d. 42.06, sample size 57). Women with slightly, sharply raised tubercles, slightly gradually raised tubercles, flat, or slightly lower than flat tubercles, all scored lower (means 40.48, 45.87, 29.41, 28.37 respectively, standard deviations all between 33 and 43, and if you’re thinking those last two look maybe kinda significant, please note that they both were based on 10 data points each.) When the authors break it down to a simple binary - prominent versus nonprominent - the means are 56.31% (s.d. 41.71, sample size 89) and 42.06 (s.d. 41.87, sample size 112). Here, I was so mad I made you a graph of what those numbers look like if you assume a normal distribution:

sexstudy.jpg

Do those graphs look significantly different to you? Maybe if you squint and pretend there were about 900 more data points? There is nothing of scientific merit that I can find in this damn paper. The study is designed around an outdated understanding of women’s bodies and sexuality and the conclusions don’t even hold up to a cursory reading. It should never have been published and it definitely shouldn’t be granted the slightest bit of media attention. Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m off to drown myself in whiskey.

*I was gonna read those articles too, but then I realized I would probably burst a blood vessel if I did.

**First person that notes grammatical errors/my overuse of parentheses will be stabbed (figuratively). I AM TOO ANNOYED TO PROOFREAD.

Dr. Pisaster has a doctorate in biophysics, not actually anything sexy. She does however enjoy having sex, reading about sex, and talking about sex. Especially when she’s had a little whiskey.









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Comments

I just went to their journal site to see if I know any of their editorial board, and one of my favorite authors for a journal I manage is on there. BOOO.

Also, this? and at one point quip that women who had not had PIV were excluded from the study because they might “have the endogenous characteristics required for vaginal orgasm but have not yet found an appropriate man.” is confounding. If a woman has had a vaginal orgasm from a dildo or vibrator, that should absolutely count.

Posted by: Julie at June 29, 2011 3:30 PM

I had to leave. Saw the word "misogyny" and figured I'd get while the getting's good.

Posted by: Skitz at June 29, 2011 3:41 PM

There might be a correlation between the shape of a woman's lips and my ability to have an orgasm.

Posted by: MrFrye at June 29, 2011 3:42 PM

In the intro of the study's Abstract it says that a "clinical observation led to the novel hypothesis that a prominent tubercle of the upper lip is such a marker."

This is hardly a novel observation. Hasn't this been THE rumor since women had lips?

I don't buy it. (Mainly because my tubercle is far from the mink-in-a-rut-lips-look of Angelina and the Trout Pout Mafia, but everthing ELSE works just fine, thank you.)

Very homogeneous population for the study too. What are they feeding Scottish university grrls these days?

Posted by: Stinky at June 29, 2011 3:54 PM


There might be a correlation between the shape of a woman's lips and my ability to have an orgasm.

Posted by: MrFrye

This, in fact. Love that pic.
~~~

Posted by: Meander at June 29, 2011 4:01 PM

Wait. Women can get off without a penis being in the room? My health teacher, Zack Snyder, totally lied to me.

Posted by: Paultera at June 29, 2011 4:04 PM

Well, I'm thinking they have, indeed proven something.

What do we know? Several losers took a victory lap in print, bragging that they got to ask a couple hundred college girls sex questions under the guise of science.

I conclude losers to 5 significant figures, with perfect confidence.

Posted by: BierceAmbrose at June 29, 2011 4:20 PM

Tubercle noticeable, orgasms . . . not so much.

(i.e., the orgasm as defined by the dipshits who wrote this massive piece of caca article.)

Tubercle--hee! Who knew?

Posted by: NeoCleo at June 29, 2011 4:21 PM

Yup I only got a "C" in Stats but I know that that small a sample size with that big a SD proves nothing.

Posted by: logan at June 29, 2011 4:32 PM

There are a lot of issues that could use some study with either gender's sexuality. But lip shape? What are ya gonna do with that?

Posted by: Mrcreosote at June 29, 2011 4:44 PM


There might be a correlation between a woman's ability to have an orgasm and whether or not she knows me.

Posted by: The Mutt at June 29, 2011 5:20 PM

Ah, but do men with prominent tubercle's orgasm better with a penis in them?

The word "Tubercle" makes me giggle, because I'm still 8 years old in my head.

Does this study adjust for ethnic features? I don't want to sound racist, but white women are not known for their large tubercles, unless they've pumped them full of Restylane.

Posted by: BWeaves at June 29, 2011 5:22 PM

Yeah, I remember my statistics well enough to know that the standard deviation there is a little big to draw any conclusions. The all-caps were warranted.

Perhaps this study had the motivation behind it of making prominent tubercles more attractive. Is there a particular modeling agency that has been suspiciously stocking up on clients with prominent tubercles? That would truly be a diabolical conspiracy worthy of a Bond villain.

Posted by: DarthCorleone at June 29, 2011 5:36 PM

I'm trying to figure out how an internet survey can be called clinical.

While the numbers cited are technically statistically significant, they don't really have a control group. You'd have to do a study with women who similar features other than their lip shape in order to do this. Also, with such a wide standard deviation, the significance would only really say that women with extremely large differences in these features would feel this effect. Just look at the overlap in your chart. A very large portion of the population falls under both scenarios. (I may, however, be misunderstanding how to interpret this.)

The moral here is, if you use shitty enough definitions, you can prove whatever you want is significant.

Posted by: Socrates_Johnson at June 29, 2011 5:56 PM

They've basically just proven that there is a 90% chance that the women in group A have a greater ability to vaginally orgasm than the women in group B.

Posted by: Socrates_Johnson at June 29, 2011 6:06 PM

Dr. Pisaster, all this talk of a woman not having an orgasm is foreign to me because every woman that has ever been with me has had at lest two orgasm every time we’ve gotten together.

Posted by: Pookie at June 29, 2011 6:09 PM

RE "The setup: 258 women, mostly Scottish, mostly university students, answered an internet survey"

Stopped reading the explanation right there. Then skipped to the righteous indignation.

It'd be one thing if this survey was asking respondents about something like their preferred brand of beer. But asking people to respond both candidly and truthfully to questions about their sexual activities? And then to draw a correlation between lip shape and sexual activities? Retarded.

But knowing how easy it is to get a "study" into this journal makes me want to spew a bunch of bullshit onto about 20 pages and submit it and see if they publish it. How hard can it be? These dipshits did it. I could come up with something way better. More entertaining, anyway.

Posted by: Slash at June 29, 2011 6:15 PM

So, mostly white university students in Scotland? Even if the data pool were larger, it would still be incredibly undiversified, and also,they are relying on their subjects ability and honesty to determine something that doesn't make much sense to me, particularly the lip description.
What a dumb, poorly constructed and poorly executed study. What a waste of time.

Posted by: Viking at June 29, 2011 6:51 PM

I have a not-particularly noticeable tubercle and emotional intimacy issues, but my hips swing like a hypnotist’s pendulum and I get off every which way. What does that mean, SCIENCE?

This is why we love you.

Posted by: Patty O'Green at June 29, 2011 7:00 PM

I'm not going to argue about the validity of the focus group, or the generalisations of the science people involved, or any of that. But...

My last girlfriend, who had very very full lips, was notoriously easy to get to orgasm. My current girlfriend who has very very thin lips, can't achieve vaginal orgasm (despite my best efforts).

Jus' sayin' is all...

Posted by: Bronson at June 29, 2011 7:25 PM

Bronson Assuming you're defining vaginal orgasm the same way these *ahem* researchers did, by excluding the effect of clitoral stimulation during intercourse, I suspect you're looking at the wrong set of lips.
The proximity of the clitoris to the vagina is an established factor in achieving orgasm through penetration alone. Your last girlfriend was probably a paraclitoridienne, meaning her clitoris was less than an inch from her vagina. Your current girlfriend may be a téleclitoridienne (over an inch). With your ex, her clit was close enough to her vagina that both were stimulated during penetration, your current girlfriend isn't so fortunate.

On topic, that little detail was figured out in the 1920s. Clitoral stimulation is a massive factor in orgasm, especially among young and relatively inexperienced college students, that's practically a sexual law. And these idiots ignored that?
Got some space for me in the 'white hot rage' section, Dr P?

Posted by: ScienceGeek at June 29, 2011 7:59 PM

Hey, I think I'm going to do some Science. At home! Right now!

Sample size: two white females, one age 15, one age 47.

Subjects were asked to describe their favorite ice cream. Subjects were also asked to describe the musical talent of John Mayer.

Results: John Mayer appreciation is strongly negatively correlated to pistachio appreciation. SD = 50%.

Where should I publish?

Posted by: Wednesday at June 29, 2011 8:21 PM

If you try Googling images for "tubercle", the results are pretty nasty, and don't seem to involve lips at all. Going by the shit I found, you really don't want a large tubercle.

Posted by: Uriah Creep at June 29, 2011 10:35 PM

Kudos on finding a picture of Jolie with her original, adorable nose.

You know what I've found to be the most reliable way to find how a woman orgasms? Ask her.

Posted by: Intern Rusty at June 30, 2011 1:15 AM

Bronson: You just fell for one hell of a Post Hoc Fallacy.

"One girl had large lips and came easily. The next one has smaller lips, yet she doesn't come. Hence, large lips dictate a woman's ability to orgasm."

I'm sorry, but this just sounds like you're looking for a way to diminish any culpability. I really can't say, since I have no idea what the situation is. All I'm saying is that it doesn't sound good. Perhaps you were joking and it just flew over my head? If you were speaking in earnest, maybe you should follow Sciencegeek's sound advice and focus more of your attention on her other lips.

Posted by: Kala at June 30, 2011 2:00 AM

@ Bronson


I believe it is spellled "phallasy".....

Posted by: frank_247 at June 30, 2011 7:34 AM

Hey, I think I'm going to do some Science. At home! Right now!

Hooray!

Sample size: two white females, one age 15, one age 47.

Wait! What was this study about again? Where is this going!? >(

Subjects were asked to describe

Yes...? What? :0

their favorite ice cream. Subjects were also asked to describe the musical talent of John Mayer.

Ok Chris Hansen, you can leave now.*

*Did I do this bit right? We don't have one of him in this country.

Posted by: Ender at June 30, 2011 10:08 AM

You got it right Ender, and echoed my thoughts as I read it as well.

Well done, Wednesday.I am sure the Journal of Sexual Medicine will be calling you any moment for rights to print it.

Posted by: Viking at June 30, 2011 12:56 PM

It seems to me a more apt comparison when it comes to the ability of a woman to orgasm during PIV intercourse would be shape and size of the penis, and not of her lips.

Posted by: Darcy at June 30, 2011 1:00 PM